"Science has not come up with proof that unicorns...exist. Does this mean that they real?"
This argument is OLD. the people who believe in the christian god (which most people seem to have problems with)also believe that he is outside of time and space (ie, christians believe he is eternal), UNLIKE unicorns, etc. So, to use this argument, u must equate the christian god with such a mythological creature. And just to let u know, I'm a biochem major...so i do agree with science.
Science has NO position that "nothing" ever existed, nor is there even an explanation for what "nothing" even is. Let's beat the fuck out of strawmen all day for Jesus. Nice, subtle video.
Just because someone believes in science doesn't mean they can't believe in a God. So far science has not come up with concrete proof that a God does not exist. And the existence of a God would not prove any existing science wrong, unless of course, we foolishly believe that our sacred writings were directly written by God, when they were (ultimately) written by humans, and just like humans can make mistakes in science, they can make mistakes in religion, because we're not perfect.
i believe in god, because i made a bet. in this bet, you have two options:
option a: believe in god, and live a decent life so u can get into heaven
option b: don't believe in god, and also live a decent life, so u wont go to prison
if i chose option a, i would have to sacrifice a few sundays and maybe pray a little bit. for option b, i would not have to sacrifice much, but i would still live decently out of fear of the law
lets say option b was right. in that case i would be permanently dead and i wouldn't be able to think "oh crap, i bet on the wrong horse."
but lets say option a was right. if i bet on option b, i hav a chance of going to hell.
personally, since either way i would live a decent life, i'd prefer to bet on option a, just in case. after all, if i die and god doesn't exist, it wouldn't matter anyways.
another thing, eventually if you go back far enough, chances are, you'll end up with an uncaused cause, such as the two atoms that ultimately set off the big bang. the law of conservation of mass says atoms cannot be created or destroyed, so something had to put it there. if i believe in god, the two atoms would have a cause, but my god wouldn't. either way, my uncaused cause is further back than yours.
option c: don't believe in god, live an utterly sinful life, blaspheme everyday, kill a few dozen families, burn down a few churches and all I have to do to for salvation is utter the words: "Forgive me of my sins Jesus, I believe in you, save me!" as I die on my deathbed. Live a life as a sinner AND go to heaven.
if u really wanna go there... *dramatic deathbed scene* assuming u believe that god is a mind reader, he'll know if ure being honest...after all, no human accepts a fake apology, so why would god, after all, he apparently doesnt like lying? then again, we cant know 100% that youll go to hell if u murder, etc. or if god accepts dramatic death bed apologies, and we cant know for sure that god exists until we die.
Be it god or the big bang, everything had to come from nothing. "God created the heavens and the earth"....... from what? The question is not even where did god come from. Ignoring that reasonable issue, where did the stuff of creation come from. The choice is the sciences of astrophysics, quantum physics, biology, or an invisible being. Just which invisible being depends on where you were born. There is a part of the brain that invents invisible friends in the absence of understood answers.
A logical proof can never be presented when it is swathed in emotion. Cynicism is the hallmark of a defeated premise. You are no better than the Creationists...
@ishkibable Christians believe God is eternal which resides in eternity where there is no beginning nor end. The universe was in a very dence state. You know it had to of came from somewhere or sometime. there must of been a beginning where this dence state came from right? can someone please explain this too me. i am not defending nor attacking i just wanna know.
No one has the full explanation on how the universe came about. Evolution is theory just and creationism is theory. No final truth will ever be know. Did God Create? Did the universe just start some how? Know one knows. One person attributes it too God, or to "nature" Both belief have little real scientific proof. The universe has not been recreated in the lab. And, we were not around when God created. So there is not "right answers" Both take faith, both are theory. No final facts.
@MRGV7373 Which of these two "theories" have the most evidence for it and against it?
I see you have surrendered to ignorance. Such is the mindset of those in the grips of a bronze age death cult.
Unlike you, folks who know some real science, never claim that we won't, given time, find the answers to things now unknown. This is why computer in front of you works and all the other great and useful things in your life and you aren't sitting in a cave fearing the thunder and claiming god did it.
@Netwriter Both theories have plenty of evidence but hardly complete. Theories are just that. Not facts. I am a full believer in evolution with the caveat that something God could be the creator of evolution. I have not surrendered to ignorance in any shape or form. I have kept an open mind to each understanding. I have a very good understanding of science and got A's in highschool and college. I did graduate in the top 10% of my college class at the largest university in the US.
@MRGV7373 Creationism has plenty of evidence???? Please provide some. Your god of the gaps argument above doesn't work. This supposed god you give credit to, in no way translates to the cartoon character god of the bible.
@MRGV7373's ideas are NOT the type of creationist you're probably thinking about, which is an extreme idea called "Young Earth Creationism" that frequently disregards scientific research in favour of the sometimes illogical Bible. A belief that a god started the whole process is called deism. I think @MRGV7373's ideas are more deist than creationist. Try to know what terms mean before using them
"@MRGV7373 Creationism has plenty of evidence???? Please provide some. Your god of the gaps argument above doesn't work...."
You should have taken a college course in logic."
It depends what you consider evidence. Please define your terms. Do you consider "evidence" to be purely scientific (empirical) or does logic fall into this category as well? Because really, you're indirectly using logic to prove all your arguments.
You say you have a good understanding of science, but don't know what a scentific theory is. A theory is not some idea written on the back of a beermat which a couple of people think is a nifty idea, it has to have facts & evidence then has to be rigorously reviewed & tested by other scientists who are in the same field of study, & it is reviewed if other evidence come to light. Creationism is NOT a theory as it has no facts or evidence to even START the process.
Lets take these 2 options then. Lets also assume that there is no evidence for either to start with, you will soon find that Evolution not only has evidence but the amount of evidence is so utterly overwhelming that it cannot possibly be denied.
The number of scientists that deny evolution is ... What? 150 maybe 200 ?
How many scientists accept it on the massive mountains of evidence several hundred thousand?
@MRGV7373 Actually, creationism is a hypothesis. Evolution is a scientific theory and fact. Learn the difference b/w scientific theory and the layman's usage of the word "theory."
@MRGV7373 Actually no creationism is not a theory, it would be a hypothesis in the field of science (if it was science). I do agree however that evolution is a theory. Like most theories it is supported by evidence and is considered factual.
What does evolution have to do with the creation of the universe?
@Netwriter MAGIC?? i just said LET THER BE..and wateva follows that..is exactly wat came to be..trust me i kno its hard to comprehend with our finite brains!!..but a universe of this scale and magnitude and structure is the work of a MIND!..only 3 options u have
A. the universe is eternal
b. it popped into existance a finite time ago ON ITS own
c.CREATOR
theres no other option which one do u think happen and be serious with me please =)
@jmacisdope2 Of the three choices you gave me to choose from it seems the most logical, but like you I don't know. Instead of believing something that might be totally false, I will await the findings of science, they have a record of getting things right in time. You know, the stuff you use every day to make your life safer, longer and more enjoyable. C - is a none starter till it is proved that invisible magic beings are even possible.
@Netwriter ya i hear u..but science CANNOT prove everythang thats y answer C u gotta take by FAITHHH..cuz an event like that goes beyond science u kno?? just like life after death science cant prove that because its out of there reach!...but life after death thats a whole nother issuse lol
@jmacisdope2 Wrong we have more than three answers.
D would be It didn't caome into existance on it's own but not with a creator (my bet's on this one)
E something we can't think of because of how you put we have "finite brains" it's funny how you go and say how we have such limeted understanding but then say you know alll of what the answer could be.
Even is the answer were C that still leaves alot of questions. Like what if any of the gods or what ever of the 10,000.
I believe that it takes MORE faith to believe in your argument. Saying that evolution created everything is unscientific. The odds that evolution occurred is astoundingly low. Pretty much zero. Evolution can be proven wrong with logic alone. God is real, repent to Jesus and be saved!!
Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature-- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
@Ihavebeensaved23 What are the odds that there is a magical being that is powerful enough to create all there is but can not be detected? Which theory contains the most evidence for it, big bang/evolution or creation?
What proof do you have that the god you believe in is the one who did this magical creation of which you believe?
Murdock 7:54 The god of abraham is a phony, invented by brutal and immoral bronze age goat herders, over a camel dung fire."
@Netwriter The odds are 1/2 that there is a God. There either is, or isn't. I believe it is as simple as that. Much better than evolutions odds I might add.
Also, creation is the best evidence for my God, the Christian God. I truly believe the proof is all around us! Look at nature, look at the animals, look at humans! We are obviously set apart, and unique from every other creature. We are made in the image of God.
@Netwriter I know it to be true because I have faith. I have seen God work in my life, and in my families life, and my friends lives. I read and study the bible frequently, not nearly as much as I should, but I try my best. I feel renewed as I'm reading the bible, and after I read the bible, and I believe that is because God and I are closer to each other in those moments. God has answered my prayers countless times, and has graciously blessed me with a loving family.
@Ihavebeensaved23 Everything you claim as proof is also claimed by believers in other gods. What you describe is called self delusion. You believe because of need to, not because of evidence. You can't face the world as it, is so you impose your imaginary friend to keep you safe. Everything that happens in your life that is positive you attribute it to your god. I did the same thing when I was in the grips of the christian death cult and lived in my own self delusion.
@Netwriter Other religions don't make sense to me. Islam came from Mohammad 600 years after Christianity. Why would I believe in a NEW religion, it would obviously be false. Judaism is the oldest, and Christianity came from that. Jesus fulfilled prophesy in the new testament, and his teachings seem divine. They have deep meaning that I don't think any human could make up.
@Ihavebeensaved23 There are many religions and gods that predate the bible and the invention of the bible god. Islam would make sense to you if you had been indoctrinated from child hood with it like you were with your christianity. If you were born in Turkey you would be just a bone headed that Islam and Koran were true as you are about your christianity and bible. It is called being brainwashed.
@Netwriter 2 Peter 1:19-21 "And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
@Ihavebeensaved23 Murdock 3:75 The god of abraham is nothing but the invention of bronze age goat herders and the bible is a mix of fiction, mythologies and lies.
@Netwriter You didn't even answer my question. How could life come from non-life? Why do we have male and female? Two simple questions that are impossible to answer.
@Ihavebeensaved23 Doesn't the bible tell a story of dirt turning into a man? How is this possible? Why do you not ask the same questions of your theory? Why don't you ask these questions from scientists? There are several here on YoutTube. DonExodus2 is a christian evolutionists, go ask him. There is also aronra, cdk007, thunderf00t and others who have done whole series on this subject. Go watch and learn.
@Netwriter Yes, the Bible does say God formed the first man out of the dust of the earth, then He breathed the breath of life into him, and then man became a living soul. You ask, “How is this possible,” well the Bible states, “...with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26). What I want to know is this, without God, how is life possible? Please, tell me your theory on how life came to be. I really want to hear your 'scientific' way of how we all got here.
@Ihavebeensaved23 The bible says you can get striped sheep by having them mate in front of a striped fence too. Is this true? I don't know how life came to be here on this planet, but I will wait for science to figure it out before claiming "god did it". Can you tell me one time where the claim that god did it turned out to be right in the end? It is OK not to know and far superior than to claim something false as fact. Got any proof of what you believe other than an old book?
@Netwriter Also, I will admit, there is no possible way to prove the existence of a God. The belief in a God requires faith, and the bible tells us this.
John 20:29 "Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Roughly 2,000 years ago, Jesus was crucified. He died, and then rose from the dead. 500+ people saw him and believed. The rest of the bible was written after Jesus' ascension into heaven.
Respond to this video... Faith is believing what you know isn't so. The rest of your comment is nothing but bald assertions and no more real than a 4 year old talking about santa and the elves.
@Netwriter Why would common men continue to write about Jesus unless he had risen from the dead? These men were killed for their beliefs. If they knew it was false, why in the world would they die for a lost cause? What would be the purpose? To trick people? Why do people to claim that their lives are changed once they find God? I believe the answers to all of these questions is that God does exist and he speaks to us through the bible, His written Word. Please, I urge you to be open minded
@Ihavebeensaved23 It is called myth making and fleecing the flock. Based on your logic, islam is true because a bunch of them have killed themselves and others because of their belief in Allah. Tricking people out of their money and control of their own life is what evil men do. Just like those who wrote the majority of your book called the bible. I urge you to use some critical thinking. You are in the grips of a bronze age cult.
@Netwriter The disciples never killed themselves, or killed others for their beliefs. They were martyrs, willing to die for what they believe to be true. The disciples preached the good news of the bible, and what Jesus had taught them. They were filled with the Holy Spirit to do Jesus' work. The Bible says to give 10% to the church in tithes, and more if one wishes in offerings. It is a system of giving. And believe me, we are in control of our eternal destiny, we were given free will!
@Ihavebeensaved23 We don't know what the disciples did or if they were more than fictional characters. What you think you know about the disciples are the writings of anonymous authors, greek fiction writers and early church fathers.
Free will is impossible with an omniscient and omnipotent god. The bible even tells you that everything was determined before the foundations of the world.
@Netwriter Real scrolls have been found and they were incorporated into the bible. The bible is written from 40 or so authors in 66 books. They all claim their writings came from the same divine source, God. It tells of a beginning, middle, and an end. Prophesy from the bible has been fulfilled. Israel became a nation again, and that was prophesied. It was also prophesied that it would be destroyed! That also came true. We wouldn't be able to sin if free will didn't exist.
@Ihavebeensaved23 The bible is a collection of writings. Please tell me about the prophecies of the city or Tyre, or the one about Egypt being devoid of life for 40 years, or the one from Jesus that he would return before all those listening to him tasted death. Your old book is nothing but fiction and mythology. Sorry.
@Ihavebeensaved23 Free will is impossible with a omni god, sorry. The bible tells you this. Ephesians 1:3-5 Ephesians 2:4-10 Romans 8:28-30, 9:10-15, 9:16-19, Rev 13:8, II Timothy 1:9.
@Ihavebeensaved23 Religion has left a river of blood through history. Today, the vast number of folk who believe in bronze age superstitions are a detriment to mankind and society. They stand in the way of scientific progress, social justice, gay and women's rights. They idealize bronze age morality, bigotry and brutality. They dream of a violent end to the world. They detest themselves and their own earthly life in favor of never never land after death. Faith over reason is a crime.
@Netwriter Atheism hasn't left its river of blood? How about Adolf Hitler, or Stalin? Hitler thought he was more evolved than Jews, so he thought he was doing the world a favor by killing them. Hitler was convinced that evolution occurred. Also, you're claiming I am a detriment to mankind AND society. That's pretty judgmental, not to mention stereotypical.
@Ihavebeensaved23 HItler was a christian, sorry. I am not aware of anyone ever killing in the name of atheism, but history is full of folks killing in the name of one god or another. Believers in the abrahamic god are still killing each other with zest.
@Netwriter I am in NO position to judge Hitler, even if he appeared as an evil man, because I am a sinner just as he was. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). Hitler claimed to be a Christian at one point, but later denied it as well. But, in Matthew 7:21 it clearly states, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Cont.)
@Netwriter (Cont.) Again, in John 14:15 (ESV) Jesus says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” Romans 10:9-10 and 13 says, “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.” … “for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Cont.)
@Ihavebeensaved23 What proof do you have that the bible is anything other than the scribblings of ancient goat herders. The bible claims that all the languages on earth came from the tower of babble, is this true? Jesus said he will answer every prayer YES and nothing will be impossible for those who believe in him. John 14:13, Matt 17:20 Is this true? Why do you quote scripture when it proves over and over to be lies?
@Ihavebeensaved23 I am still waiting for you to explain the prophecy failures of the bible. Instead you are down to quoting the bible. This is a total failure on your part. Preaching and bible quoting is the last refuge of the brain dead superstitionist. One more verse and you are out of here. Prove you can think for yourself.
@Netwriter Ha. I had responses written out for free will and those prophecies (youtube blocked me because of quick posts) but I will respect your wish. I will not be speaking anymore because of it. But, I was not happy with your answer of how life got here. It surprises me how much faith you put in man. While you continue to put your faith in man, I'll put my faith in the LORD. Also, don't be so quick to rule out God as the Creator because you have no evidence AGAINST His existence.
@Ihavebeensaved23 Yeah, blame Youtube. See that computer in front of you, notice your cell phone, TV, radio, car, HVAC, medical science, communication satellites, all the things that make your life healthier, longer, more comfortable, safer and enjoyable. Those were all brought to you by man with science. What has your religion and your god brought anyone of worth? What does it offer today other than delusion, bigotry and hatred? All you have is worthless faith. Sad indeed.
@Ihavebeensaved23 "you have no evidence AGAINST His [god's] existence" And you have no evidence against leprechauns, fairies, wood sprites, the flying spaghetti monster, zeus, thor, horus, apollo and the list goes on and on. Based on your simpleton logic all these things must exist. You need to close your sock puppet account and remain silent. You have proven yourself to be a very poor apologist for your bronze age superstition. Time to grow up and give up your invisible imaginary friends.
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would
No closer to knowing why things are than what you oppose... Your still left with the first problem. And Charles Darwin is not a man to honor with a quote. Well unless you believe we shouldn't help our sick or poor. After all who needs ethics when you have Darwin?
I've read some books on these subjects, and I have to say, that in the end, the atheist is still left with the problem of the 1st cause. The atheist is still left with the question of does time have a beginning (it does, as an infinite past would never lead to the present). If time has a beginning point, what caused time to begin ?
I refer you to this site, featuring scientists who refute atheism.
I think I'm missing the point in this video. He is saying that something from nothing is nonsense....but where is he saying that everything came from? ...or is this just a slam on theists?
Quantum fluctuations and even the atoms themselves are only separated by the time they have to exist before vanishing =/ But then we return to what time is, is it a dimension with a unique sence, or is it we are only able to sence it moving in once sence. If time has no value without an observer, then this means the universe never really brakes any physical laws, which only take effect when an observer is present anywhere within it.
Fail religious people failed. Regardless of how you look at it, everything either exists, or doesn't. What determines if it exist is our ability to detect and observe it. So if there was no observer, the universe could very well have been a single point of NOTHING more then probabilities. And when you talk about probabilities, this also means energy can be borrowed, at the expense of forces like gravity.
But the Universe didn't come from nothing, it was created by the Almighty Kakarot! Gokuism, a new, fast rising religion, has ALL the answers to life, the universe and everything, and I assure you it's not 42. On my page there is a link to a youtube group called the Church of Kakarot, which can give you SOLID answers to all the questions (where did the universe come from, etc.)! All you need do is ask, my friends. And join the Church of Kakarot!
As of now, the original big bang theory is the most accepted and holds that all time, matter, space, and energy began at one singularity. This however shows the universe had a beginning and it is not eternal as ancient atheist have argued. So there has been a scramble to explain how the physical world may have always been around with theories like the oscillating universe that don't stand for very long. If indeed the physical world had a beginning then it was transcendent.
if u wanna learn more about how the univers could have come from nothing watch a video lecture from lawrence krauss called i think a universe from nothing. its almost an hour long but its very well spoken informative and he adds good humor.
@ChristianCarGuy1 The only books foolish enough to claim to know how everything came to be, with no room nor need for later enquiry and discovery, are books such as the bible and the koran. It is OK not to know, and is in fact better, than to "know" a falsehood. Just as science did not fully understand germ theory at one time, did not make the belief that disease was caused by demons correct. Do you go to the doctor when you are sick or do you do what the bible says to do when you are sick?
@Netwriter You are right again Netwriter it's better not to believe a lie. Why did Jesus came to earth, to do what, according to the book that bothers you so much? Hint: John 18:37
@ChristianCarGuy1 The better question is was there really a Jesus or is he just another fictional/mythical character like Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses and Noah? Was the Jesus written of by Paul a flesh and blood person or a timeless and placeless savior made up of many god men who came before?
For the answer to this question read "Jesus 100 Years Before Christ" by Alvar Ellegard and "The Bible Unearthed" by Finklestein and Silberman. Also watch my video "Exodence"
@Netwriter The better question is how will we sinful, disgusting, peons, stand before a Holy God forever... that one has a time requirement...tic, tic, tic your month is ticking away.
@ChristianCarGuy1 This is how it always ends up. It is called an argumentum ad baculum, a fallacy. It proves that what you are selling is a lie. The truth does not require threats to get folks to believe, only a lie needs such a thing. It is also sad to see how your superstition degrades you, to nothing more than a sinful, disgusting peon. How sad for you and those who believe like you. It's time to grow up and leave your bronze age mythology behind and become an adult, sonny.
@Netwriter ..What's truly sad my friend is the folks that you are leading astray when you yourself admit you don't have the answer. Psalms 2: 4 "He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;The Lord shall hold them in derision.Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:" You don't even know what you don't know... Ask yourself a few questions like; why do you think Hebrew is the only ancient language still spoken?
@ChristianCarGuy1 That is some messed up god you worship. You don't have the answers either, you just have your superstition. BTW the oldest languages still spoken are Sanskrit, Greek and Chinese. Seems what you "know" is dead wrong, so what is new? Now go drink the blood and eat the flesh of your god man and try and tell yourself that you are not a believer in a very dark and evil mythology.
I am bothered by your beliefs because believers in the abrahamic god have left a river of blood and misery through recent human history. They are a danger to themselves and human society. They try to make their bronze age morality into law, they stand in the way of medical research, they try to restrict the rights of women and gays and more. Watch my videos "Believers are more likely to...". 1 and 2.
Science can't explain everything. And how is science and religion apart from each other? Why are there religious scientists? How did they even earn their degree if itsn't unacceptable for a person of science to believe in the supernatural? They should be banned, shouldn't they? I mean, come on: science and religion...together? Oh yeah....freedom of religion. Nice try, though. :D
Maybe instead of the axioms for a god: an all powerful, all knowing, and loving being. The axiom of a property that creates random properties is true? How do we decide which is true through objective tests?
This isn't what most theists are arguing. They're asking how the universe came from nothing (big bang theory). The theory is 100% scientifically sound, yet at the same time it explains absolutely nothing about what exploded, how it exploded, etc.
Never be ashamed to say, "I DON'T KNOW"! If you try to explain it away by guessing, or using any sort of pseudo-science (ID), you're no better than the ignorant theists.
So when a theist asks this, simply say, "I don't fkn know, we're workin on it!"
That, and you can also point out, as I did in this video ,that their claim, from bronze age mythology, props the same source for the cosmos as the question they asked. It all got zapped here from nothing, by magic.
I also like to mention that the YEC's give an explanation going about 6000 years back in time, not knowing what made God, while the reconstruction of the universe goes back a 13.5 billion years. About 2 million times better.
@FatalKnight ; A timeless, causeless entity is the same as nonexistence equals existence. Therefore, your question makes no rational sense whatsoever. Your second question is a little redundant don't you think? It's almost the same as asking why are bachelors, bachelors. If you want to appear intelligent, the next time come up with questions that won't make you look stupid. Stupid.
@nogogma "Your second question is a little redundant don't you think? It's almost the same as asking why are bachelors, bachelors." Yeah its kinda like asking what caused a causeless being
@Aanthanur A necessary being is a causeless being, necessary meaning it's existence is logically necessary for other things to exist. If God exist he is by definition the greatest conceivable being and therefore cannot have a cause, because if he did have a cause then that cause would be God and the thing being called God wouldn't be God. It is meaningless to asked what caused a causeless being.
@Aanthanur Well lets take baby steps. If you are an atheist, you must believe in something that exists necessarily, because every thing cannot be contingent. There must be an ever existing causeless source in which all contingent things came from. You likely attribute the necessary thing as energy. I believe in a causeless mind, I do not believe everything just comes through blind necessary forces. It fails to explain the order in the universe. So I pose a mind. Is that so fantastical?
@nogogma That was exactly the point! It is redundant, just like it is redundant to ask what caused God. God is by definition a causeless being. So when someone asks what caused God, they are asking what caused a causeless being. This type of reaasoning wouldn't pass you through kindergarden. Yet it is Dawkin's principle argument?
@FatalKnight ; Your God doesn't have a logical definition. A causeless being is the same as saying a being that exists and doesn't exist at the same time. Your so called God is a contradiction and with such a definitiion should be ignored until it can be defined logically. Therefore, you lose again. As I said 7 mo's ago, man created God in his ignorant and superstitious little image.
@nogogma "causeless being is the same as saying a being that exists and doesn't exist at the same time." A causeless being is a contradiction? Back this up with an argument instead of just stating it to be so.
@FatalKnight Only principles like logical and mathematical absolutes are causeless. Beings are contingent on time and space while subject to thermodynamics and therefore cannot be causeless anymore than a filled well can be bottomless. Without a bottom, a well can never hold water. Without a cause, a being can never exist. To say god transcends time and space is to say your god doesn't think or act within the universe because thinking and acting both take place in time and space.
i don't understand; this is supposedly about creationists, but how do other people believe the universe began?
and if it's so ridiculous to assume that our God "just sitting there" for eternity, then how is not equally unbelievable to think that a bunch of "toxic goo" was just sitting there for eternity?
It seems like creationists aren't only the ones being "ignorant" to the simple facts...
It doesn't ANSWER anything, buddy, learn to read. I was requesting clarification and expressed my incredulity at your incredibly off topic and ignorant information, which you, obviously, presented.
I never said I was trying to look intelligent. Now, again, what the fuck does toxic goo, "sitting there for eternity", have to do with ANYTHING?
The simple fact is, the notion there was "nothing" or, indeed, any particular "thing" at all is simple ignorance. The "big bang" was a singularity that *ERASED* all data about any previous state the universe might have had. Unless we come up with an FTL system and leave this mud ball, we can *NEVER* know, with any certainty, what came before. That being said, there is *less* evidence for a Deity here than the laws of physics. Scientists have worked out, using those laws ,(1 of 2)
(2 of 2) everything back to an incredible 10^-43 seconds after the "event". There is evidence it was not a tiny comething, but definitely not "nothing" at all. We have some workable theories, some of which we may be able to test someday. Can you test any of your theories?
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@Netwriter
and by the way, since science works not to disprove superstitions, why are so many people trying to use it to disprove the existence of god?
although you are using reason to argue god's existence. congratulations :) but try not to be so one sided. think mother teresa, wasn't she religious?
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 9 hours ago
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@Netwriter
"Science has not come up with proof that unicorns...exist. Does this mean that they real?"
This argument is OLD. the people who believe in the christian god (which most people seem to have problems with)also believe that he is outside of time and space (ie, christians believe he is eternal), UNLIKE unicorns, etc. So, to use this argument, u must equate the christian god with such a mythological creature. And just to let u know, I'm a biochem major...so i do agree with science.
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 9 hours ago
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gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 9 hours ago
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gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 10 hours ago
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gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 10 hours ago
Science has NO position that "nothing" ever existed, nor is there even an explanation for what "nothing" even is. Let's beat the fuck out of strawmen all day for Jesus. Nice, subtle video.
alphaenemy 2 weeks ago
Just because someone believes in science doesn't mean they can't believe in a God. So far science has not come up with concrete proof that a God does not exist. And the existence of a God would not prove any existing science wrong, unless of course, we foolishly believe that our sacred writings were directly written by God, when they were (ultimately) written by humans, and just like humans can make mistakes in science, they can make mistakes in religion, because we're not perfect.
gossipgirlxoxo990 2 weeks ago
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grubashu in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
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@gossipgirlxoxo990
"No concrete proof that a god does not exist" HAHAHA
So, Because there is no concrete proof that SUPERMAN does not exist, Then it means he exists? Damn you creationists are twisted and screwed!
grubashu in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
@gossipgirlxoxo990 Have you only just started your discourse on Theology? The onus is on you to prove whatever it is you believe in.
fnanfne in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
i believe in god, because i made a bet. in this bet, you have two options:
option a: believe in god, and live a decent life so u can get into heaven
option b: don't believe in god, and also live a decent life, so u wont go to prison
if i chose option a, i would have to sacrifice a few sundays and maybe pray a little bit. for option b, i would not have to sacrifice much, but i would still live decently out of fear of the law
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to fnanfne (Show the comment) 9 hours ago
lets say option b was right. in that case i would be permanently dead and i wouldn't be able to think "oh crap, i bet on the wrong horse."
but lets say option a was right. if i bet on option b, i hav a chance of going to hell.
personally, since either way i would live a decent life, i'd prefer to bet on option a, just in case. after all, if i die and god doesn't exist, it wouldn't matter anyways.
borrowed from "Pascal's Wager"
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 9 hours ago
another thing, eventually if you go back far enough, chances are, you'll end up with an uncaused cause, such as the two atoms that ultimately set off the big bang. the law of conservation of mass says atoms cannot be created or destroyed, so something had to put it there. if i believe in god, the two atoms would have a cause, but my god wouldn't. either way, my uncaused cause is further back than yours.
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 9 hours ago
on a side note, if u saw god, and knew for sure that there was a god, there would be nothing to believe, you would know it.
seeing is not believing, seeing is KNOWING (given that you are not on any hallucinogens, which by the way means acid, ecstacy, etc)
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 9 hours ago
Or you could choose another option:
option c: don't believe in god, live an utterly sinful life, blaspheme everyday, kill a few dozen families, burn down a few churches and all I have to do to for salvation is utter the words: "Forgive me of my sins Jesus, I believe in you, save me!" as I die on my deathbed. Live a life as a sinner AND go to heaven.
fnanfne in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 7 hours ago
@fnanfne
if u really wanna go there... *dramatic deathbed scene* assuming u believe that god is a mind reader, he'll know if ure being honest...after all, no human accepts a fake apology, so why would god, after all, he apparently doesnt like lying? then again, we cant know 100% that youll go to hell if u murder, etc. or if god accepts dramatic death bed apologies, and we cant know for sure that god exists until we die.
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to fnanfne (Show the comment) 7 hours ago
They can't prove evolution wrong so the move the goal post to Abiogenesis and the Big Bang.
gregrutz 2 months ago
Be it god or the big bang, everything had to come from nothing. "God created the heavens and the earth"....... from what? The question is not even where did god come from. Ignoring that reasonable issue, where did the stuff of creation come from. The choice is the sciences of astrophysics, quantum physics, biology, or an invisible being. Just which invisible being depends on where you were born. There is a part of the brain that invents invisible friends in the absence of understood answers.
teaohar2 2 months ago
If you don't think about it, it all makes sense!
christerryatl 3 months ago
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A logical proof can never be presented when it is swathed in emotion. Cynicism is the hallmark of a defeated premise. You are no better than the Creationists...
JMorde999 3 months ago
Then how did god just poof into existence? Don't you have to explain that then?
ishkibable 4 months ago
@ishkibable Christians believe God is eternal which resides in eternity where there is no beginning nor end. The universe was in a very dence state. You know it had to of came from somewhere or sometime. there must of been a beginning where this dence state came from right? can someone please explain this too me. i am not defending nor attacking i just wanna know.
Twinpact in reply to ishkibable (Show the comment) 3 months ago
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did jesus die for your sins?
matthelion 4 months ago
No one is saying that "everything came from nothing".
What we're saying is "We don't know how it happened (yet)".
Not knowing how something happened does NOT automatically mean that some invisible deity is responsible. Why is this SO hard to understand??
This is often discussed at atheistroundtable[.]com
mikefromwa 5 months ago
No one has the full explanation on how the universe came about. Evolution is theory just and creationism is theory. No final truth will ever be know. Did God Create? Did the universe just start some how? Know one knows. One person attributes it too God, or to "nature" Both belief have little real scientific proof. The universe has not been recreated in the lab. And, we were not around when God created. So there is not "right answers" Both take faith, both are theory. No final facts.
MRGV7373 6 months ago
@MRGV7373 Which of these two "theories" have the most evidence for it and against it?
I see you have surrendered to ignorance. Such is the mindset of those in the grips of a bronze age death cult.
Unlike you, folks who know some real science, never claim that we won't, given time, find the answers to things now unknown. This is why computer in front of you works and all the other great and useful things in your life and you aren't sitting in a cave fearing the thunder and claiming god did it.
Netwriter in reply to MRGV7373 (Show the comment) 6 months ago
@Netwriter Both theories have plenty of evidence but hardly complete. Theories are just that. Not facts. I am a full believer in evolution with the caveat that something God could be the creator of evolution. I have not surrendered to ignorance in any shape or form. I have kept an open mind to each understanding. I have a very good understanding of science and got A's in highschool and college. I did graduate in the top 10% of my college class at the largest university in the US.
MRGV7373 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 6 months ago
@MRGV7373 Creationism has plenty of evidence???? Please provide some. Your god of the gaps argument above doesn't work. This supposed god you give credit to, in no way translates to the cartoon character god of the bible.
You should have taken a college course in logic.
Netwriter in reply to MRGV7373 (Show the comment) 6 months ago
@Netwriter
@MRGV7373's ideas are NOT the type of creationist you're probably thinking about, which is an extreme idea called "Young Earth Creationism" that frequently disregards scientific research in favour of the sometimes illogical Bible. A belief that a god started the whole process is called deism. I think @MRGV7373's ideas are more deist than creationist. Try to know what terms mean before using them
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
@gossipgirlxoxo990 MRG7373 is a fundamentalist, YEC bone head. He is not a deist by a mile.
I have dealt with his ignorance on several of my videos. For a real definition of Deism watch my video "Netwriter talks with God"
Netwriter in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
@Netwriter
"@MRGV7373 Creationism has plenty of evidence???? Please provide some. Your god of the gaps argument above doesn't work...."
You should have taken a college course in logic."
It depends what you consider evidence. Please define your terms. Do you consider "evidence" to be purely scientific (empirical) or does logic fall into this category as well? Because really, you're indirectly using logic to prove all your arguments.
gossipgirlxoxo990 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
@gossipgirlxoxo990 Logic???
I will let you define evidence. I have an invisible Griffin that lives in the woods where I live. What evidence would you need to believe me?
Netwriter in reply to gossipgirlxoxo990 (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
@Netwriter You do?!? That is more then enough evidence for me! I believe you!
Seakkon in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
@Netwriter I dunno about @gossipgirlxoxo990 but I'd like you to get that griffin to take a dump on my chest.
Nothing to do with evidence, I'm just a degenerate atheist and we loves that kind of scat stuff, in between eating babies
nickmacky in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 2 weeks ago
@MRGV7373
You say you have a good understanding of science, but don't know what a scentific theory is. A theory is not some idea written on the back of a beermat which a couple of people think is a nifty idea, it has to have facts & evidence then has to be rigorously reviewed & tested by other scientists who are in the same field of study, & it is reviewed if other evidence come to light. Creationism is NOT a theory as it has no facts or evidence to even START the process.
Wordavee1 in reply to MRGV7373 (Show the comment) 6 months ago
@MRGV7373
Both have evidence? Seriously?
Ok, What does creation have?
A book & Lots of Strawmen but nothing real.
FatRakoon in reply to MRGV7373 (Show the comment) 6 months ago
@MRGV7373
Ignorance is not evidence.
Lets take these 2 options then. Lets also assume that there is no evidence for either to start with, you will soon find that Evolution not only has evidence but the amount of evidence is so utterly overwhelming that it cannot possibly be denied.
The number of scientists that deny evolution is ... What? 150 maybe 200 ?
How many scientists accept it on the massive mountains of evidence several hundred thousand?
Now, try naming just one bit of proof of ceation
FatRakoon in reply to MRGV7373 (Show the comment) 6 months ago
@MRGV7373 Actually, creationism is a hypothesis. Evolution is a scientific theory and fact. Learn the difference b/w scientific theory and the layman's usage of the word "theory."
atheistram in reply to MRGV7373 (Show the comment) 5 months ago
@MRGV7373 Actually no creationism is not a theory, it would be a hypothesis in the field of science (if it was science). I do agree however that evolution is a theory. Like most theories it is supported by evidence and is considered factual.
What does evolution have to do with the creation of the universe?
dataloreforever in reply to MRGV7373 (Show the comment) 2 months ago
it didnt just poof into existance on its on GOD causeed it to come into existance he spoke it into being!!
jmacisdope2 9 months ago
@jmacisdope2 Did he say Abracadabra?
Netwriter in reply to jmacisdope2 (Show the comment) 9 months ago
@Netwriter whatt?
jmacisdope2 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 9 months ago
@jmacisdope2 What magic words did your god use to speak the universe into existence?....... from nothing.
Netwriter in reply to jmacisdope2 (Show the comment) 9 months ago
@Netwriter MAGIC?? i just said LET THER BE..and wateva follows that..is exactly wat came to be..trust me i kno its hard to comprehend with our finite brains!!..but a universe of this scale and magnitude and structure is the work of a MIND!..only 3 options u have
A. the universe is eternal
b. it popped into existance a finite time ago ON ITS own
c.CREATOR
theres no other option which one do u think happen and be serious with me please =)
jmacisdope2 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 9 months ago
@jmacisdope2 A
Netwriter in reply to jmacisdope2 (Show the comment) 9 months ago
@Netwriter ok and why do u choose A?
jmacisdope2 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 9 months ago
@jmacisdope2 Of the three choices you gave me to choose from it seems the most logical, but like you I don't know. Instead of believing something that might be totally false, I will await the findings of science, they have a record of getting things right in time. You know, the stuff you use every day to make your life safer, longer and more enjoyable. C - is a none starter till it is proved that invisible magic beings are even possible.
Netwriter in reply to jmacisdope2 (Show the comment) 9 months ago
@Netwriter ya i hear u..but science CANNOT prove everythang thats y answer C u gotta take by FAITHHH..cuz an event like that goes beyond science u kno?? just like life after death science cant prove that because its out of there reach!...but life after death thats a whole nother issuse lol
jmacisdope2 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 9 months ago
@jmacisdope2
Science has never said that it knows the answers. Thats not how science works.
What science does claim, it can back up and prove because it can and does provide evidence for every one of its claims.
Sometimes science adjusts its answers but these answers only get more stronger and more valid all the time.
Creation claims to know the answers right off the bat based on one book. that can be mostly proven to be wrong.
Thats absurd to say the least.
FatRakoon in reply to jmacisdope2 (Show the comment) 6 months ago
@jmacisdope2 Wrong we have more than three answers.
D would be It didn't caome into existance on it's own but not with a creator (my bet's on this one)
E something we can't think of because of how you put we have "finite brains" it's funny how you go and say how we have such limeted understanding but then say you know alll of what the answer could be.
Even is the answer were C that still leaves alot of questions. Like what if any of the gods or what ever of the 10,000.
kokofan50 in reply to jmacisdope2 (Show the comment) 8 months ago
No, sorry. Atheists don't claim that everything came from nothing.
In fact, the only book that says that everything came from nothing is the bible.
Educate yourself first, and only then adress the issue.
fernbap 10 months ago
@fernbap That is exactly what this video says. Wanna try again?
Netwriter in reply to fernbap (Show the comment) 10 months ago 2
@Netwriter Sorry, i stand corrected.
However, it is your fault. Your video is too ambiguous :D
fernbap in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 10 months ago
@fernbap
They......ya know....they.
That ambiguity kinda caught me off guard at first too.
acronus in reply to fernbap (Show the comment) 10 months ago
Reality is a big fat meanie poo poo head. Got religeon? :oD
spook79 11 months ago
are those 17 people exist ..where they come from ?
miamithaiyoga 11 months ago
I believe that it takes MORE faith to believe in your argument. Saying that evolution created everything is unscientific. The odds that evolution occurred is astoundingly low. Pretty much zero. Evolution can be proven wrong with logic alone. God is real, repent to Jesus and be saved!!
Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature-- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Ihavebeensaved23 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 What are the odds that there is a magical being that is powerful enough to create all there is but can not be detected? Which theory contains the most evidence for it, big bang/evolution or creation?
What proof do you have that the god you believe in is the one who did this magical creation of which you believe?
Murdock 7:54 The god of abraham is a phony, invented by brutal and immoral bronze age goat herders, over a camel dung fire."
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter The odds are 1/2 that there is a God. There either is, or isn't. I believe it is as simple as that. Much better than evolutions odds I might add.
Also, creation is the best evidence for my God, the Christian God. I truly believe the proof is all around us! Look at nature, look at the animals, look at humans! We are obviously set apart, and unique from every other creature. We are made in the image of God.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 What are the odds that if there is a god it is the one you believe in? Your odds by the way are wishful thinking.
I have it on good authority that it was Zeus who created everything. What proof do you have that it was your volcano god who created anything?
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter I know it to be true because I have faith. I have seen God work in my life, and in my families life, and my friends lives. I read and study the bible frequently, not nearly as much as I should, but I try my best. I feel renewed as I'm reading the bible, and after I read the bible, and I believe that is because God and I are closer to each other in those moments. God has answered my prayers countless times, and has graciously blessed me with a loving family.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 Everything you claim as proof is also claimed by believers in other gods. What you describe is called self delusion. You believe because of need to, not because of evidence. You can't face the world as it, is so you impose your imaginary friend to keep you safe. Everything that happens in your life that is positive you attribute it to your god. I did the same thing when I was in the grips of the christian death cult and lived in my own self delusion.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter Other religions don't make sense to me. Islam came from Mohammad 600 years after Christianity. Why would I believe in a NEW religion, it would obviously be false. Judaism is the oldest, and Christianity came from that. Jesus fulfilled prophesy in the new testament, and his teachings seem divine. They have deep meaning that I don't think any human could make up.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 There are many religions and gods that predate the bible and the invention of the bible god. Islam would make sense to you if you had been indoctrinated from child hood with it like you were with your christianity. If you were born in Turkey you would be just a bone headed that Islam and Koran were true as you are about your christianity and bible. It is called being brainwashed.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter 2 Peter 1:19-21 "And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 Murdock 3:75 The god of abraham is nothing but the invention of bronze age goat herders and the bible is a mix of fiction, mythologies and lies.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter What proof do you have for evolution? I assume that is your stance on the subject.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 There are train loads of evidence for evolution. I have yet to see a shred of evidence for the Genesis creation. Do you have any?
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter You didn't even answer my question. How could life come from non-life? Why do we have male and female? Two simple questions that are impossible to answer.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 Doesn't the bible tell a story of dirt turning into a man? How is this possible? Why do you not ask the same questions of your theory? Why don't you ask these questions from scientists? There are several here on YoutTube. DonExodus2 is a christian evolutionists, go ask him. There is also aronra, cdk007, thunderf00t and others who have done whole series on this subject. Go watch and learn.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter Yes, the Bible does say God formed the first man out of the dust of the earth, then He breathed the breath of life into him, and then man became a living soul. You ask, “How is this possible,” well the Bible states, “...with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26). What I want to know is this, without God, how is life possible? Please, tell me your theory on how life came to be. I really want to hear your 'scientific' way of how we all got here.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 The bible says you can get striped sheep by having them mate in front of a striped fence too. Is this true? I don't know how life came to be here on this planet, but I will wait for science to figure it out before claiming "god did it". Can you tell me one time where the claim that god did it turned out to be right in the end? It is OK not to know and far superior than to claim something false as fact. Got any proof of what you believe other than an old book?
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter Also, I will admit, there is no possible way to prove the existence of a God. The belief in a God requires faith, and the bible tells us this.
John 20:29 "Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Roughly 2,000 years ago, Jesus was crucified. He died, and then rose from the dead. 500+ people saw him and believed. The rest of the bible was written after Jesus' ascension into heaven.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
Respond to this video... Faith is believing what you know isn't so. The rest of your comment is nothing but bald assertions and no more real than a 4 year old talking about santa and the elves.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter Why would common men continue to write about Jesus unless he had risen from the dead? These men were killed for their beliefs. If they knew it was false, why in the world would they die for a lost cause? What would be the purpose? To trick people? Why do people to claim that their lives are changed once they find God? I believe the answers to all of these questions is that God does exist and he speaks to us through the bible, His written Word. Please, I urge you to be open minded
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 It is called myth making and fleecing the flock. Based on your logic, islam is true because a bunch of them have killed themselves and others because of their belief in Allah. Tricking people out of their money and control of their own life is what evil men do. Just like those who wrote the majority of your book called the bible. I urge you to use some critical thinking. You are in the grips of a bronze age cult.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter The disciples never killed themselves, or killed others for their beliefs. They were martyrs, willing to die for what they believe to be true. The disciples preached the good news of the bible, and what Jesus had taught them. They were filled with the Holy Spirit to do Jesus' work. The Bible says to give 10% to the church in tithes, and more if one wishes in offerings. It is a system of giving. And believe me, we are in control of our eternal destiny, we were given free will!
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 We don't know what the disciples did or if they were more than fictional characters. What you think you know about the disciples are the writings of anonymous authors, greek fiction writers and early church fathers.
Free will is impossible with an omniscient and omnipotent god. The bible even tells you that everything was determined before the foundations of the world.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter Real scrolls have been found and they were incorporated into the bible. The bible is written from 40 or so authors in 66 books. They all claim their writings came from the same divine source, God. It tells of a beginning, middle, and an end. Prophesy from the bible has been fulfilled. Israel became a nation again, and that was prophesied. It was also prophesied that it would be destroyed! That also came true. We wouldn't be able to sin if free will didn't exist.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 The bible is a collection of writings. Please tell me about the prophecies of the city or Tyre, or the one about Egypt being devoid of life for 40 years, or the one from Jesus that he would return before all those listening to him tasted death. Your old book is nothing but fiction and mythology. Sorry.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 Free will is impossible with a omni god, sorry. The bible tells you this. Ephesians 1:3-5 Ephesians 2:4-10 Romans 8:28-30, 9:10-15, 9:16-19, Rev 13:8, II Timothy 1:9.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter Might I ask.. why are you so opposed to religion in general? You must have a reason.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 Religion has left a river of blood through history. Today, the vast number of folk who believe in bronze age superstitions are a detriment to mankind and society. They stand in the way of scientific progress, social justice, gay and women's rights. They idealize bronze age morality, bigotry and brutality. They dream of a violent end to the world. They detest themselves and their own earthly life in favor of never never land after death. Faith over reason is a crime.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter Atheism hasn't left its river of blood? How about Adolf Hitler, or Stalin? Hitler thought he was more evolved than Jews, so he thought he was doing the world a favor by killing them. Hitler was convinced that evolution occurred. Also, you're claiming I am a detriment to mankind AND society. That's pretty judgmental, not to mention stereotypical.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 HItler was a christian, sorry. I am not aware of anyone ever killing in the name of atheism, but history is full of folks killing in the name of one god or another. Believers in the abrahamic god are still killing each other with zest.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter I am in NO position to judge Hitler, even if he appeared as an evil man, because I am a sinner just as he was. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). Hitler claimed to be a Christian at one point, but later denied it as well. But, in Matthew 7:21 it clearly states, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Cont.)
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter (Cont.) Again, in John 14:15 (ESV) Jesus says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” Romans 10:9-10 and 13 says, “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.” … “for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Cont.)
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 What proof do you have that the bible is anything other than the scribblings of ancient goat herders. The bible claims that all the languages on earth came from the tower of babble, is this true? Jesus said he will answer every prayer YES and nothing will be impossible for those who believe in him. John 14:13, Matt 17:20 Is this true? Why do you quote scripture when it proves over and over to be lies?
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 I am still waiting for you to explain the prophecy failures of the bible. Instead you are down to quoting the bible. This is a total failure on your part. Preaching and bible quoting is the last refuge of the brain dead superstitionist. One more verse and you are out of here. Prove you can think for yourself.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Netwriter Ha. I had responses written out for free will and those prophecies (youtube blocked me because of quick posts) but I will respect your wish. I will not be speaking anymore because of it. But, I was not happy with your answer of how life got here. It surprises me how much faith you put in man. While you continue to put your faith in man, I'll put my faith in the LORD. Also, don't be so quick to rule out God as the Creator because you have no evidence AGAINST His existence.
Ihavebeensaved23 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 Yeah, blame Youtube. See that computer in front of you, notice your cell phone, TV, radio, car, HVAC, medical science, communication satellites, all the things that make your life healthier, longer, more comfortable, safer and enjoyable. Those were all brought to you by man with science. What has your religion and your god brought anyone of worth? What does it offer today other than delusion, bigotry and hatred? All you have is worthless faith. Sad indeed.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
@Ihavebeensaved23 "you have no evidence AGAINST His [god's] existence" And you have no evidence against leprechauns, fairies, wood sprites, the flying spaghetti monster, zeus, thor, horus, apollo and the list goes on and on. Based on your simpleton logic all these things must exist. You need to close your sock puppet account and remain silent. You have proven yourself to be a very poor apologist for your bronze age superstition. Time to grow up and give up your invisible imaginary friends.
Netwriter in reply to Ihavebeensaved23 (Show the comment) 11 months ago
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would
AlexxxxPanda 11 months ago
No closer to knowing why things are than what you oppose... Your still left with the first problem. And Charles Darwin is not a man to honor with a quote. Well unless you believe we shouldn't help our sick or poor. After all who needs ethics when you have Darwin?
AlexxxxPanda 11 months ago
@AlexxxxPanda Another straw man argument from the peanut gallery.
Netwriter in reply to AlexxxxPanda (Show the comment) 11 months ago
I've read some books on these subjects, and I have to say, that in the end, the atheist is still left with the problem of the 1st cause. The atheist is still left with the question of does time have a beginning (it does, as an infinite past would never lead to the present). If time has a beginning point, what caused time to begin ?
I refer you to this site, featuring scientists who refute atheism.
Reasons.org
Oallos1 1 year ago
@Oallos1 "" I have to say, that in the end, the atheist is still left with the problem of the 1st cause""
So do theists. You are propping a god of the gaps argument. Nice.
Netwriter in reply to Oallos1 (Show the comment) 1 year ago
I think I'm missing the point in this video. He is saying that something from nothing is nonsense....but where is he saying that everything came from? ...or is this just a slam on theists?
sharc00 1 year ago
@sharc00 Natural processes.
Netwriter in reply to sharc00 (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@Netwriter that explains it. Thanks.
sharc00 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 1 year ago
Quantum fluctuations and even the atoms themselves are only separated by the time they have to exist before vanishing =/ But then we return to what time is, is it a dimension with a unique sence, or is it we are only able to sence it moving in once sence. If time has no value without an observer, then this means the universe never really brakes any physical laws, which only take effect when an observer is present anywhere within it.
Flem1337 1 year ago
Fail religious people failed. Regardless of how you look at it, everything either exists, or doesn't. What determines if it exist is our ability to detect and observe it. So if there was no observer, the universe could very well have been a single point of NOTHING more then probabilities. And when you talk about probabilities, this also means energy can be borrowed, at the expense of forces like gravity.
Flem1337 1 year ago
But the Universe didn't come from nothing, it was created by the Almighty Kakarot! Gokuism, a new, fast rising religion, has ALL the answers to life, the universe and everything, and I assure you it's not 42. On my page there is a link to a youtube group called the Church of Kakarot, which can give you SOLID answers to all the questions (where did the universe come from, etc.)! All you need do is ask, my friends. And join the Church of Kakarot!
impiccolomofo 1 year ago
As of now, the original big bang theory is the most accepted and holds that all time, matter, space, and energy began at one singularity. This however shows the universe had a beginning and it is not eternal as ancient atheist have argued. So there has been a scramble to explain how the physical world may have always been around with theories like the oscillating universe that don't stand for very long. If indeed the physical world had a beginning then it was transcendent.
FatalKnight 1 year ago
if u wanna learn more about how the univers could have come from nothing watch a video lecture from lawrence krauss called i think a universe from nothing. its almost an hour long but its very well spoken informative and he adds good humor.
tupacalypse88 1 year ago
I admire your faith Netwriter, which of those books you say I should read explains how everything came to be?.. Tell me if you know for sure?
ChristianCarGuy1 1 year ago
@ChristianCarGuy1 The only books foolish enough to claim to know how everything came to be, with no room nor need for later enquiry and discovery, are books such as the bible and the koran. It is OK not to know, and is in fact better, than to "know" a falsehood. Just as science did not fully understand germ theory at one time, did not make the belief that disease was caused by demons correct. Do you go to the doctor when you are sick or do you do what the bible says to do when you are sick?
Netwriter in reply to ChristianCarGuy1 (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@Netwriter You are right again Netwriter it's better not to believe a lie. Why did Jesus came to earth, to do what, according to the book that bothers you so much? Hint: John 18:37
ChristianCarGuy1 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@ChristianCarGuy1 The better question is was there really a Jesus or is he just another fictional/mythical character like Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses and Noah? Was the Jesus written of by Paul a flesh and blood person or a timeless and placeless savior made up of many god men who came before?
For the answer to this question read "Jesus 100 Years Before Christ" by Alvar Ellegard and "The Bible Unearthed" by Finklestein and Silberman. Also watch my video "Exodence"
Netwriter in reply to ChristianCarGuy1 (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@Netwriter The better question is how will we sinful, disgusting, peons, stand before a Holy God forever... that one has a time requirement...tic, tic, tic your month is ticking away.
ChristianCarGuy1 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@ChristianCarGuy1 This is how it always ends up. It is called an argumentum ad baculum, a fallacy. It proves that what you are selling is a lie. The truth does not require threats to get folks to believe, only a lie needs such a thing. It is also sad to see how your superstition degrades you, to nothing more than a sinful, disgusting peon. How sad for you and those who believe like you. It's time to grow up and leave your bronze age mythology behind and become an adult, sonny.
Netwriter in reply to ChristianCarGuy1 (Show the comment) 1 year ago 2
@Netwriter ..What's truly sad my friend is the folks that you are leading astray when you yourself admit you don't have the answer. Psalms 2: 4 "He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;The Lord shall hold them in derision.Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:" You don't even know what you don't know... Ask yourself a few questions like; why do you think Hebrew is the only ancient language still spoken?
ChristianCarGuy1 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@ChristianCarGuy1 That is some messed up god you worship. You don't have the answers either, you just have your superstition. BTW the oldest languages still spoken are Sanskrit, Greek and Chinese. Seems what you "know" is dead wrong, so what is new? Now go drink the blood and eat the flesh of your god man and try and tell yourself that you are not a believer in a very dark and evil mythology.
Netwriter in reply to ChristianCarGuy1 (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@Netwriter A swing and a miss again, Netwriter check out this link wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_is_the_oldest_language_that_is_still_spoken
someone's messed up unless you know someone speaking Tamil. Keep asking yourself, why are you so bothered by my beliefs.
ChristianCarGuy1 in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@ChristianCarGuy1 Wiki?? No thanks, I will go to a real source.
I am bothered by your beliefs because believers in the abrahamic god have left a river of blood and misery through recent human history. They are a danger to themselves and human society. They try to make their bronze age morality into law, they stand in the way of medical research, they try to restrict the rights of women and gays and more. Watch my videos "Believers are more likely to...". 1 and 2.
Netwriter in reply to ChristianCarGuy1 (Show the comment) 1 year ago
Science can't explain everything. And how is science and religion apart from each other? Why are there religious scientists? How did they even earn their degree if itsn't unacceptable for a person of science to believe in the supernatural? They should be banned, shouldn't they? I mean, come on: science and religion...together? Oh yeah....freedom of religion. Nice try, though. :D
compsciguy 1 year ago
This vid make me think - what would have been god's purpose for the other planets in our solar system??
shagster1970 1 year ago
did he say "pooped" into existence or "poofed" no matter, same thing
PlanetoftheAtheists 2 years ago
Everybody knows the spider lady knitted it all together on her loom.
hartejoseph 2 years ago
Dinosaurs aren't extinct... That's why.
johnsoundboy in reply to KakashiHatake212 (Show the comment) 2 years ago
Maybe instead of the axioms for a god: an all powerful, all knowing, and loving being. The axiom of a property that creates random properties is true? How do we decide which is true through objective tests?
proatheism 2 years ago
One star out of christian compassion.
lizazoon 2 years ago
In the world of quantum, particles are always coming into existence from nothing; literally, energy comes from nowhere.
It happens inside quantum vacuums where particles are produced in 'virtual pairs'.
This is an observed phenomenon, as far as I know; based off of this, something from nothing is quite plausible.
MrCallumEvans 2 years ago
For a slightly different spin on this issue, please see my video, "Why is there Something? (instead of nothing)"
Thanks
jeffkosmo 2 years ago
Creating all that might have been a hard job, but can you imagine loading all those critters on that Ark!!! :)
EcotecUSA 2 years ago
This isn't what most theists are arguing. They're asking how the universe came from nothing (big bang theory). The theory is 100% scientifically sound, yet at the same time it explains absolutely nothing about what exploded, how it exploded, etc.
Never be ashamed to say, "I DON'T KNOW"! If you try to explain it away by guessing, or using any sort of pseudo-science (ID), you're no better than the ignorant theists.
So when a theist asks this, simply say, "I don't fkn know, we're workin on it!"
siciliano29 2 years ago
That, and you can also point out, as I did in this video ,that their claim, from bronze age mythology, props the same source for the cosmos as the question they asked. It all got zapped here from nothing, by magic.
Netwriter in reply to siciliano29 (Show the comment) 2 years ago
@Netwriter instead of the other logical explanation of that a giant cosmic being zapped it here from nothing, by magic?
Juglinggeeseisacrime in reply to Netwriter (Show the comment) 2 years ago
I also like to mention that the YEC's give an explanation going about 6000 years back in time, not knowing what made God, while the reconstruction of the universe goes back a 13.5 billion years. About 2 million times better.
MrFacet in reply to siciliano29 (Show the comment) 2 years ago
@MrFacet
and most people are NOT YEC's
they actually give religion a bad name, as they are blatantly ignoring science
joshuaspolar in reply to MrFacet (Show the comment) 2 years ago
MrF ;
What made God? Simple answer: Man LOL ..
nogogma in reply to MrFacet (Show the comment) 2 years ago 14
@nogogma What made a causeless timeless entity? I don't know you tell me this. Why are bachelors unmarried?
FatalKnight in reply to nogogma (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@FatalKnight ; A timeless, causeless entity is the same as nonexistence equals existence. Therefore, your question makes no rational sense whatsoever. Your second question is a little redundant don't you think? It's almost the same as asking why are bachelors, bachelors. If you want to appear intelligent, the next time come up with questions that won't make you look stupid. Stupid.
nogogma in reply to FatalKnight (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@nogogma "Your second question is a little redundant don't you think? It's almost the same as asking why are bachelors, bachelors." Yeah its kinda like asking what caused a causeless being
FatalKnight in reply to nogogma (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@FatalKnight what is a causeless being?
Aanthanur in reply to FatalKnight (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@Aanthanur A necessary being is a causeless being, necessary meaning it's existence is logically necessary for other things to exist. If God exist he is by definition the greatest conceivable being and therefore cannot have a cause, because if he did have a cause then that cause would be God and the thing being called God wouldn't be God. It is meaningless to asked what caused a causeless being.
FatalKnight in reply to Aanthanur (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@FatalKnight what evidence is there to support this proposition?
What evidence is there for the existence for such a causeless being.
Aanthanur in reply to FatalKnight (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@Aanthanur Well lets take baby steps. If you are an atheist, you must believe in something that exists necessarily, because every thing cannot be contingent. There must be an ever existing causeless source in which all contingent things came from. You likely attribute the necessary thing as energy. I believe in a causeless mind, I do not believe everything just comes through blind necessary forces. It fails to explain the order in the universe. So I pose a mind. Is that so fantastical?
FatalKnight in reply to Aanthanur (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@FatalKnight Thats exactly the point.
FatalKnight in reply to FatalKnight (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@nogogma That was exactly the point! It is redundant, just like it is redundant to ask what caused God. God is by definition a causeless being. So when someone asks what caused God, they are asking what caused a causeless being. This type of reaasoning wouldn't pass you through kindergarden. Yet it is Dawkin's principle argument?
FatalKnight in reply to nogogma (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@FatalKnight ; Your God doesn't have a logical definition. A causeless being is the same as saying a being that exists and doesn't exist at the same time. Your so called God is a contradiction and with such a definitiion should be ignored until it can be defined logically. Therefore, you lose again. As I said 7 mo's ago, man created God in his ignorant and superstitious little image.
nogogma in reply to FatalKnight (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@nogogma "causeless being is the same as saying a being that exists and doesn't exist at the same time." A causeless being is a contradiction? Back this up with an argument instead of just stating it to be so.
FatalKnight in reply to nogogma (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@FatalKnight ; I'm afraid you are the one who doesn't understand logic.
nogogma in reply to FatalKnight (Show the comment) 1 year ago
@FatalKnight Only principles like logical and mathematical absolutes are causeless. Beings are contingent on time and space while subject to thermodynamics and therefore cannot be causeless anymore than a filled well can be bottomless. Without a bottom, a well can never hold water. Without a cause, a being can never exist. To say god transcends time and space is to say your god doesn't think or act within the universe because thinking and acting both take place in time and space.
jklarson66 in reply to FatalKnight (Show the comment) 1 year ago
i don't understand; this is supposedly about creationists, but how do other people believe the universe began?
and if it's so ridiculous to assume that our God "just sitting there" for eternity, then how is not equally unbelievable to think that a bunch of "toxic goo" was just sitting there for eternity?
It seems like creationists aren't only the ones being "ignorant" to the simple facts...
joshuaspolar 2 years ago
The fuck are you talking about? Toxic goo? How does that relate to anything?
purplefuzzythings in reply to joshuaspolar (Show the comment) 2 years ago
@purplefuzzythings
how does your comment answer anything, except that you think using swear words make you sound more intelligent ?
joshuaspolar in reply to purplefuzzythings (Show the comment) 2 years ago
It doesn't ANSWER anything, buddy, learn to read. I was requesting clarification and expressed my incredulity at your incredibly off topic and ignorant information, which you, obviously, presented.
I never said I was trying to look intelligent. Now, again, what the fuck does toxic goo, "sitting there for eternity", have to do with ANYTHING?
purplefuzzythings in reply to joshuaspolar (Show the comment) 2 years ago
"equally unbelievable to think that a bunch of "toxic goo" was just sitting there for eternity" - Joshua
Please provide your source for this understanding of the big bang. Have not heard this from any real cosmologist, or is this just a strawman?
Netwriter in reply to joshuaspolar (Show the comment) 2 years ago
The simple fact is, the notion there was "nothing" or, indeed, any particular "thing" at all is simple ignorance. The "big bang" was a singularity that *ERASED* all data about any previous state the universe might have had. Unless we come up with an FTL system and leave this mud ball, we can *NEVER* know, with any certainty, what came before. That being said, there is *less* evidence for a Deity here than the laws of physics. Scientists have worked out, using those laws ,(1 of 2)
RyuDarragh in reply to joshuaspolar (Show the comment) 2 years ago
(2 of 2) everything back to an incredible 10^-43 seconds after the "event". There is evidence it was not a tiny comething, but definitely not "nothing" at all. We have some workable theories, some of which we may be able to test someday. Can you test any of your theories?
RyuDarragh in reply to RyuDarragh (Show the comment) 2 years ago
@joshuaspolar : how is "a bunch of "toxic goo" was just sitting there for eternity?" ridiculous?
the problem for eternity of god is just about inconsistency of cosmological argument!
the problem for fucktard creationists is that they have no idea that how their argument was refused and brainlessly fuck around like you do
dreamy2 in reply to joshuaspolar (Show the comment) 2 years ago
@dreamy2
oh man, you got me.
really good grammar on top of that too, good job man
joshuaspolar in reply to dreamy2 (Show the comment) 2 years ago
@joshuaspolar : go home grammar checker
don't pretend you know anything about philosophy anymore
dreamy2 in reply to joshuaspolar (Show the comment) 2 years ago
@dreamy2
oh man, got me again
joshuaspolar in reply to dreamy2 (Show the comment) 2 years ago