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From: TitusLabienus
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  • you know i really hate documentaries and movies that make every ancient fighting between soldiers look like some hong kong kungfu movie =.=

  • This question was asked countless times, what's the song name at 3:30?

  • i understand about "Don't rely on military power" Then HOW the can people defeat a guerilla army?

  • @strwar7 The only way to defeat a guerilla army is to win the hearts and minds of the people. The USA did not do this in Viet Nam.

  • White people can never grasp the true concepts of this book in its entirety, not even with their master of Chinese language.

  • @redxar66 I'm latino. But don't be racist. Racism and predgidous only make you underestimate people. However, I will agree that white people have never seemed to be very good at waging war.

  • @redxar66 White people ? Race has nothing to do with Sun Tzu way of teaching ! Sun Tzu was chinese then how come the chinese failed to occupy vietnam for over 1500 years ?

  • @Nucci604 They did. Vietnam was occupied for a long time. So was Mongolia and Korea during the Qing dynasty.

  • my rules on war

    1, use the wepon ur best at

    2, use tactics more then force

    3, use enemy weakness to ur advantage

    4, be redy to fight

    5, use sun tzu

  • before it is confusions says.. now it is Sun Tzu says:

  • @superw1998 It can also be translated as "We say"

  • Revisionism at it's worst

  • blitzkrieg

  • about the intermingling among the US forces to prevent bombraids, how the fuck did they avoid killing their own people when attacking

  • @BigDog91527 They didn't it was a lesson that the U.S. learned and thus held back numerous, if not a vast majotiry of air bombardments. There were many friendly fires.

  • Giap also realized that a large army costs a large amount of money, the U.S eventually could not afford the monetary cost of the war for the potential resources in rubber that might have been obtained

  • gandhi

  • Are you ready? This is the tactics that must be used on Big Bank, Wall St and special interest.... Kill them all... That is the only way all the victims will be the Victors from all over the world...

  • Also with the "killing everyone in a village" that the US did is wrong. Exept for one insedent when a lutenant on a patrol got extremely paronoid and ordered his men to kill everyone in the village. Their huey evac saw this and ordered them to stop the guns on the huey would shoot em.

  • Vietnam proves unless you're a civilian in a waring contry civilians (like me) will never understand war. In vietnam the NVA had uniforms but the VC dressed like any other person in a village so untill they pulled out an AK-47 and started firing on a patrol the americans didn't know who is VC

  • we used sun tzus tecnices in winter war. motti technice was our victory.

  • "We never lost anything in Vietnam" How about a war? I'm pretty sure u lost that...

  • @Urchino1337 Listen to the rest of the sentence.

  • We didn't actually lose Vietnam. It was a failure of the political leadership to see the victory through. In reality, the U.S. won every major battle, which was depicted as defeats by the leftist movement in the U.S. It does not make sense for them to depict it as a failure to listen to Sun Tzu.

  • @Apollo5600 It is a failure, and was a lose. You can win every single battle and still lose the war.

  • What's weird is that they didn't put the Go stones on the board correctly. I also don't like how they have every soldier doing Kung Fu. I don't think they were all that fancy in combat.

  • I don't understand why they keep saying "Predicted;" he's not predicting anything, he just wrote a strategy guide. If I say "it's not a good idea to jump off a cliff" and then someone does, and dies, I didn't "predict" their death, I just tried to give good advisement that they did not listen to.

  • @EJNewbury they don't mean it in the context of psychic prediction... like your analogy he would have predicted that jumping of a cliff is not a good idea, then somebody died, it was not a good idea. Get it?

  • He predicted this, he predicted that...Sun Tzu is made out to be Nostradamus by this documentary. They should've just stuck to Sun Tzu's teachings. They do a pretty good job with that, but the rest of it is just bullshit.

  • The way they compare chess to failing war tactics is just retarded

  • 03:33 - 04:05 anyone know that song?

  • The Winter War between Finland & Russia was another "Go" like strategy

  • They shouldn't push the chess/Go analogy. Chess is not simply about winning as many pieces as you can, though material advantage can be decisive, it is much more about space, mobility, control of key squares and open liness, king safety and pawn structure.

  • @rationibus That may be an accurate point, but the thing about chess versus go is that chess may not be as simple as Go here- kill this piece, that IS the objective of the player. While GO is more inherently strategic.

  • Vietnam was all just a big cluster fuck.

  • @TheWhoaDude COD Black OPS!!!

  • DY Sao

    

  • I am Korean and can play both Western Chess, Eastern Go, and also Eastern Chess. This documentary is misleading on this point. We East Asians, including Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, play Eastern Chess which is almost identical to western Chess. This makes sense because the game of chess was invented by the Arabs and spread to both east and west at the same time. We Asians value Chess more than Go. Because it is more war like. Thus, westerners playing chess is not any less effective.

  • @UnitedKorean Wasn't Chess invented to India?

  • Watching this documentary, I can not help myself feeling that somehow Napoleon Bonaparte had access to Sun Tzu's Art of Warfare book and used it in his strategies. If you read about Napoleon's wars, you will see striking similarities.

  • Hey what is that song playing at around 3:35?

  • He didn't predict the war of Vietnam or w.e he laid out advice for future generations? are they seriously trying to make shit out of everything?

  • The rules and objectives of chess and go are different, but they both have applications in war. Directly attacking/destroying your opponent (chess) or restricting their movements or the areas they control (go) can both be means to achieve victory.

  • The comparison of Westmorelands Chess strategy vs Giaps Go strategy during the Vietnam war is silly. The US Govt forbade military commanders to invade N. Vietnam for fear of China intervening in N. Vietnams behalf, which what did happen during the Korean war. Only an offensive air campaign was conducted. Giap had no such handicap, he could launch ground attacks at the south without having worry about home defence. The US Govt severly handicapped our military forces during the Vietnam War.

  • @ke4bss agreed, that is what made me stop watching this "documentary"

  • Chess is NOT a game of attrition. The goal is NOT to kill the opponents King but to capture him. Thus leaving the King no escape route, therefore controling space. Chess starts with an entire army but that does mean the player needs to move those men into action. A static defence can be as good as an offencive thrust, depending on tactics that unfolds during the course of the game.

  • The Art of War has a lot of merit but the American government 'lost' the war with Vietnam on purpose. America had ulterior motives just like it does with all wars it starts and gets involved in.

  • Comment removed

  • @guiramirez1 Get the fuck out of here with your Pansy-ass mentality.

  • was Giap smart or were we stupid?

  • @Pikazilla Giap is a great man,and he's going to be celebrating his 101th birthday this year! Viva giap,the world loves u.

  • @kdolo100 100th birthday

  • A discipline based in destruction and murder cannot be considered an ART.

    There are no winners in war only survivors.

  • @guiramirez1 If art is sprung from creativity.. then I guess destruction would make war the opposite. However, I think that the art is intentionally aimed to show that this is how to use creativity into your own advantage. Blood, sweat, and tears will be the material. How we use them will be the mold. That is what I believe what they meant by art. One other thing, you described competition and survival -- not art. You live, you win. You die, you lose. You live, you lose anyway. You cry, go die.

  • @guiramirez1 read the art of war and think about ur comment again. Sun Tzu's first advice to war was to avoid war.

  • Comment removed

  • If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near.

    Sun Tzu

  • Great, great work! Also if you have time, check out 'the mind of a leader animation series: the art of war'. It's cool.

  • 9:20 alpha as fuck

  • More proof that Go beats out Chess

  • to be in command of army you should have to read the art of war lol

  • What's the song that starts at 3:30?

  • Unbelievable what America did to the Viatnamese.

  • @codownni even more unbelievable is what the Vietnamese did to a strong highly trained (but cocky) american fighting force. All is fair in love and war.

  • @Yupyuk

    Thats a nice saying isnt it? But not actrually true as im sure you will agree.

  • @codownni Of course, tis a very poetic but empty statement.

  • @Yupyuk The Us fighting force wasnt that highly trained.. after all alot of them were drafted or conscrpited.

  • @badpanda84 That would be "a lot" and conscription units were still trained, and often given adv training on the front lines. Usualy at an OS. The War called them soon. The US Fighting force was highly trained compared to that of many other nations or the viet cong forces. It was simply the poor conduct of the officers and mass troop movements that lost that war. Plus the fact the American people were not seeing progress and turned against the war. They were still good troops.

  • Um. That go board was completely wrong :p

  • It's not Geeap, it's Zeeap.

  • @TheStrawberryLolicon Sorry,it's Giap.Respect this great man who is 100 years old,still alive&kicking.

  • @kdolo100 Im talking about the phonetic pronunciation >_>. Though it's spelled exactly as Giáp

  • @TheStrawberryLolicon ok,hehe.

  • The goal of chess isn't to kill everyone but to capture the king. Though it is easier to do that when there are less pieces.

  • This only works with massive numbers of supporters throghout the world who are protected by left political correct lawmakers and public figures.

  • "its like playing chess-but with real people"

  • great documentory, but the graphics/cut scenes and acting is truely terrible, several scenes look like they were directed by a ten year old ;)

  • 04:33 Wassup DY? Looking good with all that dirt on your face!

  • Actually the fact that Jiap saw the battlefield's objective as:capture ground is complete bullshit.His goal was to achieve a ""political victory",he knew that americans didn't want this war,so by killing more and more americans and dissapearing before retalliation,he lowered the american army's will to fight and eventually the US saw that the war wasn't worth so many casualties

  • guerrilla warfare is a pretty perfect strategy for a small force to fight a much bigger force

    the goal, instead of defeating the enemy (because it is not really possible), is to consume their energy, time and morale, so they they will eventually back down

    not because they are outnumbered, but because the battle time has delayed longer than expected without winnings

    that's how the colonials fight the British back then, and how America lost the vietnam war

  • Fuck this shit. Sun Tzu DID NOT predict victory in Normandy! He didnot even know where that is...

  • @0jrhindo Then fuck off and don't comment. They are only explaining how Sun Tzu idea applied in those situation.

  • War...War never changes

  • Any American who takes the Vietnam War serious, go visit the War Museum in Ho Chi Minh City. That's the other side of the medaillon...the scorched side.

    Friendly city though, you'd never expect that from a country that saw such attocrities and doesnt try to hide it. Hot chicks a plenty also....Now I'm losing my train of thought.

    Horrible horrible war, very nice girls. bottom line

  • what that song on 3:34 ?

  • It really didn't help that the total casualties of the US army in Vietnam was 362,700 out of 536,000 troops deployed. That's enough to cause shock to fellow soldiers! Seeing your buddy in a stretcher, body bag or in pieces would be enough to drop morel!

  • The war against terrorism is the exact same as the vietnam war. There is no objective or purpose, we are fighting a war we cannot win. This is the thing that pisses me off about my fellow americans is that most are to stuburn to face the facts and stop repeating history.

  • @IIWantedII It's not war, it's occupation.

  • @defiantwon33

    No problem & you're welcome... Knowledge Is Power!

  • Kinda irrelevant, America could have crushed Vietnam if it really wanted to.

  • @emperormai no i dont think so, americans are too gay to have casualties....

  • @slivenbaddog yeah, that makes sense.

  • @slivenbaddog Stupidest comment ever.

  • @emperormai That's the thing. America could theoratically, crush Vietnam, if it was willing to sacrifice some casualties. Obviously that didn't go very well with Americans, which was what Vietnam used against America.

  • @fleeordie "If it was willing to sacrifice some casualties"

    Hmm, do you know what America did during the war? They were sacrificing many soldiers in unbelievable ways (eg, send a group of say 6 men into the jungle, leave radios on full blast, have them chat, then when they attract some Vietcong napalm the area (that includes the U.S troops as well)).

    The problem though, was that the Vietcong was much more cunning and had much higher morale then the American soldiers.

  • @InflatedSnake I meant the average citizen. These people would not have allowed the war to happen. After all, they had no real reason to even win it, other than pride and some other flimsy reasons.

  • @defiantwon33

    Your comment towards the other guy (that used the "big words" in an effort to seem more competent) were so ON POINT that I had to congratulate and agree with you. You must've read the AWESOME book "The 48 Laws Of Power" by Robert Greene where it goes into great detail about that. If you liked the concept that Sun Tzu had pertaining to war then you will surely enjoy this book as well... Check it out!

  • @jamesebrunson never heard of it, but i'll check it out. thanks for the introduction.

  • War has been, and always will be, a part of human survival, its just natural instinct.

  • These same U.S. tactics still applied now in the middle east, what a waste of lives and atrocities commited in the name of democracy. You cannot win a war in which your cause is wrong and your military arrogance apparent.

  • Its a pattern throughout human history, the West will be swallowed by the East.

  • A more immediate consequence for this change of approach has been the reevaluation on the notion of values and order in the conceptualization of systems. If before, the important was to define structures and categories, associating order to hierarchy. Now, these two elements order and hierarchy start to be distinctly independent, not necessarily associated one to another

  • Therefore, at the core of this commercial and industrial society that is rising up, nowadays, as an extended result of the past 500 years of human experience on business enterprises, science, art, philosophy and technology, we find out a deep revision on how values depicture the order of things to justify the world around us.

  • Based on this new perspective, conflicting elements do not just define structures and functions, but they also behave as mediating interactive forces, exchanging and negotiating their mutual interests on multiple values and significances.

  • Hi dude about that, then:

    What it really matters in today system’s conceptualization is not just to consider its structures and functions but, before anything else, to correctly appropriate its “basic conflicting nucleus”, where system’s conflicting elements inhabit in apparent opposition, but that a more careful analysis discloses their cooperation on mutual interests for the very existence of the system.

  • perhaps you should pay closer attention to my original statement -- specifically, the last half in which i stated that our very reason for being in vietnam was to fight. that was it. we were not there to stop the spread of communism; communism was an excuse to start the spread of our war machine. war is what keeps america going.

  • consider the fact that the gulf of tonkin incident was a hoax, doctored bullshit in order to incite the american people into 'moral support'. now consider the absolute that bevin alexander, 'the old man' has to offer: "we lost NOTHING in vietnam; we lost NO battles, NO engagements." that IS pride speaking. we never should've went to vietnam. if we lost 1 soldier in vietnam, it was one too many.

  • who says i wrongfully asserted? you? who are you?

  • .....the great servant charles? i'm sorry but i'll need citations for that claim.

  • @TheServantCharles i've got john minford's translation right in front of me. that's what i'm quoting from:

    chapter 6: empty and full: "i am concentrated into one; he is divided into ten. i am ten to his one; many against few."

  • @TheServantCharles well....don't hold back. who is it that you've read? i'd like to check it out too.

  • @TheServantCharles i think you might be failing to understand n.vietnames tactics. they did not engage in conventional battles. america lost a lot in vietnam. there may have been more n. vietnamese casualties, but who tucked tail in the end? it sounds like you've got a lot of pride nipping you in the ass as well.

  • During much time, we have associated strategies to wars, but almost all civilizations in human history have decayed economically insolvent much before they have lost in the battlefield. Thus, it has been for the fate of the former Roman Empire and more recently for the Soviet Empire as well.

  • @profRicardoRodrigues dude, i don't doubt that you have something to say, but your choice of vocabulary is a little off. you don't have to hit us with the largest syllabic option. your ideas will sell themselves without the big words.

  • Thus analyzing nature, we perceive that at the core of this new technological ideal of strategy, based upon intelligent protocols, there is the perception that losses, in truth, can turn to be profits; enemies (predators and prays) collaborate in order to share the same ecosystem; and if one disappears the other will share the same fate

  • Strategies, in this classical period,analyzing since San Tzu until Maquiavel, are that organizations are machines formed by pulleys, gears and conveyors; and that strategies are competitive wars which major target is to achieve a static vision of victory, trying to resolve conflicts through the elimination of competing parts.

  • Therefore, since immemorial times, as one may notice, what we have considered in terms of strategical games was always our capacity to understand the paradigms of our time, which always have been the primary causes for our conflicts and wars, defining in this fashion power, standards, norms and rules.

  • These concerns about strategies can be traced back to the Chinese San Tzu, in " The Art of the War " from 500 B.C., and, more modernly, with Maquiavel in " The Prince " from 1500 A.D. Art, war, power and norms, in truth, are inherent parts to this set of values that has established order as we may see things around us

  • ``There is no instance of as country having benefited from a prolonged war``

  • old man: "we did not lose anything in vietnam." sounds like a little pride getting nibbled on.

    we lost a lot in vietnam for the sole fact that our very reason for being in vietnam defied sun tzu's ultimate principal: "in war, it is better to take a state in tact than to destroy it ."  in other words, it's better to use superior thinking to win the war without ever entering battle. but that defied our reasons for being in vietnam. we were there just to fight. nothing else.

  • ...keep that war machine greased and charged. it's the american way; it's the american demise.

  • At 9:54 who is think he fooling? ha...ha...ha..

  • "War does not determine who is right - only who is left."

  • @brooklyn560 bertrand russell

  • hey, how about Scipio against Hannibal?

    He used a lot of similar strategies from the Art Of War.

  • watching the segment about vietnam, i am thoroughly convinced the wars in afghanistan and iraq will have the same outcome.

  • lol the Taliban are using Sun Tzu ideals agianst the U.S..

  • @acuragsr4 Yeah and guess who kicked their ass 2,000 years ago? Alexander the Great of Macedonia when he was on his conquest against Persia's tyrannous empire.

  • @acuragsr4 Really? Because there are over 1,000,000 dead iraqis you know that right...

  • @acuragsr4 Why is that funny?

  • @LeftHeadKick It's funny becuse they're are still surviving against the us.I hope they finally kick america out,jajajaja

  • @acuragsr4 It's not that the Taliban are doing anything special. The problem is that our media wont let us fight the way a war SHOULD be fought.

  • @acuragsr4 Yes and no. Yes they are using guerilla tactics, but they are also using the tactics of the Viet Cong in the Tet Offensive. The Taliban have no allies who will supply them with weapons, since we stopped giving the Afghanis weapons in 2000-2001. The Taliban does not get the people of Afghanistan on their side with love and patriotism, but rather with terror. Now that we have sent whole divisions of our army into the region, they cannot use the same tactics they did at the start. Con.

  • @acuragsr4 Sun Tzu advocates mobility, speed, surprise, deception, patriotism, and weighing the risks before declaring war. Bush did none of the tactical things Sun Tzu advocates doing, and made all the mistakes he warned against. Read Rudyard Kipling’s “The Gods of the Copybook Headings”, and “Recessional” for more information.

  • @ARP7777777 Maybe in the occupation, but the war was won rather easily.

  • @acuragsr4 nope... i honestly think they are not, aside from using hit and run tactics, and disruptions of the us forces.

  • To make in short, going back to Thomas Paine, from Lexington to Yorktown, "No army can win an idea". It was Annamese patriotism against the French, as well as American liberty against the Brit. War is the art of deception, just a way to realize this idea against opponent.

  • I think Vietnam was a semi-appropriate example. the NVA's engaged American troops largely in a conventional manner. It was the VC forces of both South Vietnam and Cambodia that used guerrilla tactics. There was also Chinese and even Soviet support. For the most part, the threat was not of a whole American regiment being wiped out by sharpened bamboo traps it was a mix of cold war political rebuttal, internal affairs within the US and tactical as well as operational engagements.

  • @doomownage94 Indeed, the North Vietnamese do have Soviet Union and China support, but their personnel's involvement is quite minimal compare to U.S. divisions that stationed during that time.

    And do not think North Vietnamese was foolish enough to think bamboo traps can wipe out a company of well-trained G.Is. But this kind of sinister and dangerous traps can do one thing, traumatize the person in the most painful way as possible. And guerrilla warfare can be useful if used correctly.

  • it worked in the game Empire total war!!

  • well in the long run IN war someone wins. if they capture precious resources, and use them wisely in the future by making tons of money.

  • To carry about war three things are needed: money, money, and yet more money.

  • do these guys even know know how to play chess, its not all about destorying the most pieces to beat the game. you could easily end the game with a little critical thinking in only a few moves

  • Comment removed

  • the americans didn't know what they were doing during the vietnam war.

  • whats the name of the song at 3:32 ?

  • "The only enemy in war, is war itself."- Denzel Washington in Crimson Tide. One of his best movies.

  • Sun Tzu: In war, numbers alone confer no advantage. Do not advance relying on sheer military power.

    Pompey's mistake against Caesar in the battle of Pharsalus.

  • That's how they would've done it in those days.

  • @TNPKGB his point was victory is relative , people end up losing more than what they started off with in a war, whether its money,men, clout or influence. mostly

  • Sun Tzu> The manifestation of humankind's greatest war strategies/tactics, philosophies, and innovation. Whom ever he(they) is, wars are fought never the same again.

  • correct me if i'm wrong; but that very last statement of Bevin Alexander is only partially correct

    In my opinion, of what i've read and heard about vietnam, was that in measure of objectives the US army never lost, but in terms of casualties lost in "efficiency" when capturing a target objective

  • @Baseballschaap War is always achieved by a wise political end. Unfortunately, U.S. failed miserably in late 60's and 70's. Well, all thanks to Lyndon Johnson in my opinion.

  • @ltmikepowell Yes, thanks to Lyndon Johnson. In 1941, he made a public opinion as a senator about the US assisting either the Soviets or the Nazis if the balance in the conflict started to shift, in order to create the best conditions for victory if the US were to get involved. This man was at some point was our president.

  • @doomownage94 In reality, U.S. do have her chance to achieve a treaty or political end during the late 60's when U.S. airplane has destroyed most of the North Vietnamese infrastructures in the city. But I don't know why or perhaps some exploitative executive leeches within the Pentagon and Capitol chose to extend the war instead.

  • @ltmikepowell Interesting... I always knew that global media at the time heavily influenced the decision to end the war--regardless of the political measures--but I hadn't known that total operational victory in the field was also possible.

  • @doomownage94 Sometimes, military victory is not enough to achieve a total objective. Because the overall objective itself may be more complex than our simple mind can think of.

  • @doomownage94 And U.S. herself can prevent the Vietnam War itself long before JFK time during the 50's. That time the Viet Cong has gave U.S. explanation about their nation's foundation and even asked for U.S. assistance. Unfortunately, the U.S. chose to ignore Vietnam out of their fear. Because of this, thousands of American G.I. died just for their forefather's arrogance and fear.

  • War proves the Infinite of Human Stupidity. Einstein was correct

  • @Neueregel its not like humans are the only animal that fights wars , chimps wage guerrilla warfare for food and girls .

  • whats the song at 3:38 please can somone relay and tell me, thank you!

  • @TheKiemaster I'm not sure on what song exactly, but it sounds like a song from Jimi Hendrix.

  • 1:45 i have to disagree, the battle of stalingrad and the later battle of the kursk salient during ww2 were the two greatest battles ever fought, and they were won by the brut force and overwhelming numbers of the soviets. and of course by their greater fear of Stalin

  • @16Canadian neither of the battles you mentioned were won simply by brute force. The Russians in the battle of Stalingrad for example, maneuvered around the Germans and caught them in an encirclement (kessel) cutting off their supply lines- then all they had to do was keep the Germans in, and use anti-air to prevent air supply. Brute force wouldn't be as complex.

  • @16Canadian in Stalingrad the Soviet focus on German weakness: its Romanian and Italian allies, so it totally follow Suntzu tatics (avoid what is strength, attack what is weak)

  • @16Canadian Brute force only be useful when wit is used. Because your opponent will do the same thing if they able to respond in time. Warfare is about ingenuity, not firepower. Well, even firepower existed because of ingenuity.

  • Sounds like Island Hopping in WWII pacific.

  • Why is that everything ancient and precious starts with China and India