Fully Charged discussion with Rory Reid episode 010

[loconegrito]

i like the hilbillie accent @ 0:55

[Volatus]

Best argument against poor range in EVs is that the meaning of "range" changes between a gas car and an electric car. In a gas car, "range" is how far (how many days/weeks) you can go between stops at the gas station. In an EV, "range" is how many miles you can go before returning home. Or your destination, if you're staying overnight or have a charging station. The point-of-refueling moves to the destination, not an inconvenient "stop" along the way. Hence, "range" is perceived differently.

[daggad02]

In Norway we have almost a 100% renewable energy, and a goverment that is giving us a lot of advantages if we drive electric så the Leaf and iMiev are cheap vs a Golf or Focus compared to the UK.

But we are at the same time pumping a lot of oil...and the charging infrastructure is far from good.

But still. I am going for the Leaf. It will make me feel a lot better !

[Alvord1430]

6 pounds ($9 US) to go 100 miles? That's awful. In U.S it costs me $2 to go 100 miles with my Think City EV. My EV has reduced my 70 mile daily commute cost by 80%. It used to cost me $198 per month to commute to work. Now it costs less than $25 per month with my EV.

[m1aws]

This car is expensive up front but add in all the fuel and servicing costs through its life then you will find the leaf is about the cheapest car on the road.

The leaf does not use laptop batteries which are deliberately poor. Horses for courses as they say.

[gisellemartins20]

People thumbs down to this video, the black is jerk, probably work for some oil company. check his arguments, bullshit...

[toyotaprius79]

@gisellemartins20 He's just a simple, Clarksonite, like the other 8,000,000 prejudice fuck-nuts who watch TopGear. He just thinks that VW Polo's and silly Hydogen cars are perfect and makes gibbeish advantages of them like you can pick up and run with it, like he has enough evidence. He's the type of person who judges and comments any EV negetively immediately before listening about the car, like most children. He's just 100% Prejudice. Prejudice is the biggest thing that hold's back EV's today

[gisellemartins20]

The black guy have bullshit arguments, 80% of what he says.

[dylanhs]

The U.S. Energy Information Agency reports how much energy the refining industry uses here: eia(dot)gov/oiaf/aeo/tablebrow­ser (just choose "Refining Industry Energy Consumption" from the list of available tables and then click "Display Table")

[Zcow29]

Tesla roadster 2.5 - 240 miles

Tesla model s - 300 miles

[revengefrommars]

I was happy to see that you both were willing to agree with at least some of each other's arguments. I don't see that very often, especially on the internet.

[epdm2be]

The only real argument by mr. Llewellyn is his assumption that petrol is finite. While this might be so. The thing is petrol engines should be able to run on something else that "can be burned". In fact the original diesel engine ran on peanut oil. So the that these are in essence steam-engine tech is right... so why not run them back on steam? I don/t believe that battery powered engines are the way o/t future. We just need another source of burnable fuel (and convert current cars).

[Jesus45U]

the main counter argument on "a hundred miles isn't enough" is not just to make bigger batteries, but to make faster recharging ones.

If you suddenly wanted to go to scotland in your batteripowered car, you should be able to do so ... and just like the petrol cars, the solution is the same ... refill it - Quickly. I'm thinking 5-10 minutes for a full recharge.

[deadmantyping2]

Electric rates sound high in the UK but here in Oregon and Pacific Northwest our KWH rates are very low and mosty zero emission since most of our electricity comes from hydro electric. I bought a Leaf. It has a 24 KWH battery pack. Charged at night during off peak ours it will cost me $1.75 for a full charge that will give me 100 miles of range. I anticipate i'll need to charge every three days. Gas cant compete with that.

[epdm2be]

@deadmantyping2 : As soon as more and more electric cars "hit the road" demands for fuel will drop (and hence the income from fuel taxes). You can bet your hat on, that at that point governments will raise taxes on electrical to compensate. Then prices will soar sky-high, i'll bet you for it. In fact prices are already rising (in europe) for electricity. Funny thing is that the CEO's blame wars in e.g. libya for the price increase??? WTF?

[eldictator1]

Snow test!

[MrDAFTnDIRECT]

bobby llew, a few points...The boys at the EVcast podcast think you were too soft and Rory came out top in the debate??

Secondly wouldnt mind a snow E.V test. I find automatics easier to drive in the snow, how do the batteries cope? and does the defrost wireless feature work well?

[Sp3ckledJim]

If these cars were going for 5grand then the car industry would change overnight.Could you use the water coming out of the pipe for a cup of tea because if it is safe,i would like to copyright an installation of an attached cup dangling of the pipe ;D

Free cd player,free teapot and a packet of high end dunking delights.CHAMPION ;p

[jonaswang79]

Just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed this segment. Good job both of you. You have a great chemistry together. I hope you will be able to meet up again in the future and have similar discussion.

[mklcolvin]

Finally, I'd like to add that electric vehicle evolution was not over 100 years of CONTINUAL development, as many would imply. It was 2 or 3 small bursts of a few years each - unlike the 100 years of development that the internal combustion engine cars have enjoyed. Given a full 100 years of continual development, I'm sure that electric vehicles would far surpass the abilities of our current cars.

[mklcolvin]

I'd like to note regarding Rory's argument that electric car range hasn't changed much from 1908. A couple of things refute this argument: first, the weight of the car - the Leaf weighs a LOT more than anything built in those years, and the electronics themselves (which also use a lot of electricity) is far more prevalent than early use.

[dogmatix15]

Despite all the very real and important issues Rory raises if anyone can not see beyond the fact that oil will end or we will does annoy me. By all means debate and discuss but the fact is if you can see the long term it doesnt matter it just needs to be done. the whole phrase short term gain drives me insane. look at the banks look at this countrys power. lets not do it to our transport. please do the necessary things to keep us going and look ahead for more than the next half an hour!

[paulnuk]

Rory's argument about lap top batteries not improving is not correct. they have improved massively. The trouble is they now have to power CPUs and graphics cards that are massively faster than those old PCs

[Pook365]

@paulnuk

Yeah, that's just a terrible thing to say and really does paint him out as someone that either want's to prompt people to respond or who knows nothing.

18650 capacities increase by a significant margin every year & 10years ago you would have been lumbered with NIMH's instead of LI-PO's meaning you needed more cells just to get the voltage and they weighed twice as much each.

[LoriCiani]

This was a good discussion, I got the feeling that there was more to say at the end of the vid but time was short. Or, was it that I was enjoying it so much that I didn't want it to end? : )

[teslawizardvvv3]

good discussion on the issues of EV's.With the infomation revolution of the 1990's EV's should advance futher in distance travled and performance. But we should not forget the EV's and trollies of the early 20th century in America and England. Good show now come to the states?

[CAESARbonds]

This car is silent unlike a Golf.

Rory is not busy shifting, which can be annoying in a traffic jam.

A Golf Blue motion (only manual) performs much worse in the city.

A Friend of mine has high fuel costs because of city traffic, my prius uses less than half of it.

Just take a look at the A123 pouch cells. They are very flat and still can deliver 600amps immediately.

I would even BET that within 10 years there are almost soly EVs and hybrids beeing sold.

rgds

[ProGuitarTuition]

Hmm this guy keeps making false comparisons, current laptops use a lot of power hence the better specs, more silicon = more power and higher performance. If you put a modern laptop battery in a really old laptop it would more than likely run all week not just hours. Battery tech has improved immensely, which is one of the reasons ipods and netbooks werent possible 15 years ago. Its all supply and demand, if we use more large batteries people will research the tech!!

[MrDAFTnDIRECT]

@ProGuitarTuition MY Ipod classic from 4 years ago was broken recently. I never had more than 4 -5days average usage from the start. The newest model I bought goes for about8-10 days

[ProGuitarTuition]

@MrDAFTnDIRECT Indeed this would be an improvement over scale of the device and batteery size, so the job that the two devices do is amost identical apple can make an optimised device using less silicon to do it combined with much better battery and hey presto. I think this is in line with what I have said thanks for the example. He compares completely different things as the spec on an old laptop and new are soo different giving him a false sense that batteries have not improved. :)

[yakyakyak69]

There is a Paradym Problem here...

We ARE "the gov't" so when you say: "the gov't gave me x, y or z" you are saying that the politicians forced your family, friends and neighbors to give you charity.

When charity is FORCED, it becomes SLAVERY.

Is it OK to enslave your fellow countrymen so that a few can benefit from the hard work of the many? What will that do when the producers stop taking risks or workkng hard because they realize that the benefit will to to others?

[Pook365]

@yakyakyak69

"Is it OK to enslave your fellow countrymen so that a few can benefit from the hard work of the many?"

You understand that we all pay tax and this is used to pay for everything the goverment do? It's nothing at all to do with charity.

This is a subsidy to encourage the uptake of something desirable.

Do you have kids? Child benefit and the myriad of tax credits are far more like charity and don't benifit the nation at all.

[yakyakyak69]

@Pook365

There is a HUGE difference between Services (fire, trash, roads etc) and REDISTRIBUTION for "fairness"

Redistribution (forced charity) is SLAVERY when one group supports crony-politicians who pass "public policy" which takes the fruits of the labors of another group thus forcing them into servitude.

Tax "Carve-Outs" are special favors given to the "preferred" supporters and "special interest" groups. This PANDERING is the WORST kind of corruption only possible w/Big Gov.

[randycarter2001]

According to Doug Korthof the electricity expenditure is 19.5 kWh to bring that US gallon of gas to the pump. The average EV can go 80 miles on that. The biggest user of electricity in the US is the oil industry.

You're right, everybody goes around squawking about tail pipe emissions but no one does a thing about the total well to wheels emissions. Again the oil industry is trying to confuse the issue in order to keep their monopoly.

[Pook365]

@randycarter2001

I wonder what the amount of energy wasted is by the time they get petrol to the pump in the UK...I suspect it will be worrying higher.

"The biggest user of electricity in the US is the oil industry."

If that's really true & I assume it is, then it's just terrifyingly shocking.

[DonkeyHellfire]

I have put a deposit down on a Nissan Leaf and I have subscribed to Scottish Power's H2O green electricity tariff for many years. The tariff increased yesterday from 9.48p per kWh to 11.74p. A quick search with uSwitch shows I could save a further £39 PA if I switched to Southern Electric's better plan no standing charge tariff. So some way off the 24p per kWh Rory quotes in the video for a green electricity tariff.

[Pook365]

@DonkeyHellfire

Yeah i did seem very much like he was using a worse possible case as his example for everything.

I'm very jealous about the Leaf, I hope it's fantastic and trouble free :)

[c33r0k33]

Robert, you've been doing some serious homework. I liked the debate.

[NeilBlanchard]

So, the 7.5kWh per US gallon = 22 miles in the Leaf (at the EPA rating of the Leaf of 340Wh / mile). So, no gasoline is burned, and the electricity that it takes to make a US gallon of gasoline moves the Leaf at least 22 miles.

There is also a lot of natural gas used to refine oil into gasoline, and as Robert says: many, many steps to produce gasoline. I count 18 steps vs 8 steps for coal.

neilblanchard . blogspot . com /2010/09/oil-is-finite-electri­city-is-infinite . html

Sincerely, Neil

[deadmantyping2]

Does Rory realize he just drove all over London in an electric car and had no trouble at all and didn't run out of juice?

[deadmantyping2]

Rory likes to buy his gas from Saudi Arabia and Libya. Hes a real patriot.

[NeilBlanchard]

Robert, can you please post any links you may have to the Royal Academy carbon footprint numbers/reports you mentioned? This would be great to be able to share when discussing this with others.

Thanks in advance!

Sincerely, Neil

[NeilBlanchard]

@NeilBlanchard The latest laptop batteries run 6-7 hours, which considerably longer than they used to be a few years ago.

Neil

[MrDAFTnDIRECT]

To say Battery tech isn't advancing is like the famous Iraqi defence minister saying "we have been bombarding them we are winning and holding them back" whilst Tanks roll by in the background.... and whilst panasonic, L.G, Bosch, Sanyo etc build giant factories around you

" We are confident battery tech, electronics and material science will not advance..There is no such thing as graphene!!"

[MrDAFTnDIRECT]

What pisses me off is the hypocrisy of some people who bemoan e.v grants, whilst at the same time we still give billions of dollars of subsidies to Oil companies, yes those same oil companies who make 50billion dollar profits, who have been subsidised for the past 90 years.

[eldictator1]

Good debate lads!

A vw polo or fiesta aren't the same specs or size, your comparison should have been a 1.6 golf tdi or seat leon for e.g. "Dirty" electricity as pointed out still has less C02 emissions than a similar spec'd car, the particulates are also less...

[quwers]

jaylenosgaragedotcom/at-the-ga­rage/electric/1909-baker-elect­ric/

[DanFrederiksen]

the imiev also has a 12v battery?? crazy. so does the leaf. a 12V lead acid! bizarre

[DanFrederiksen]

two aspects to the polo bluemotion vs leaf on green electricity. that's worst case scenario and second, we're not doing it for the money.

we have to get to zero fossil CO2 and battery electric drive is the way. he has to deal with that. if not forget about him. don't waste your energy on it.

as for range, then as I've said for a long time, plugin hybrid is the way. range extended electric vehicle. tiny range extender that will provide average cruise power so it can go any distance if you need

[Picto82]

Very interesting debate. I think lot people have move on and think petrol is for pleasure and electric is for business.

[thomasjam]

Rory needs to get his information from more reliable sources...or quit making up figures...or go back to math class. Its annoying to watch someone try to win an argument with illogical reasoning

[HyperbirdF6]

when i put this video on i thought it would be boring, but this is a very interesting and important discussion.

and the guy was wrong about laptop battery life. the longest one can have 8 hours.

[thomasjam]

@HyperbirdF6...Yeah, I thought the same thing. My laptop can run for 8 hrs. Plus he's wrong for a second reason: Laptops are consuming more power than they used to. The increase in battery technology allows them to run for just as long (and longer...as we just agreed)

[bonds911]

i just agree with the host from fully charged the other guy is wrong and this video has no fuckn oil puppets look 0 dislikes ahah give it up !!!!!!!!!!

[rory79]

joe90v consumers place huge importance on the looks of their laptops. Thats part of the reason we're stuck with 4-5hour laptops -- because to get any higher, you'd need to fit the laptop with an enormous battery pack that ruins the appearance and portability.

cars are different though. adding more batteries to extend range/performance doesn't spoil a car's looks. if anything, cars with greater battery capacities (tesla roadster) tend to look more attractive!

[rory79]

jpkiwigeek -- I'm not wrong regarding laptops. Laptops are more powerful today yes,but they don't require more 'juice' to run. The TDP -- or thermal design power -- of laptops has fallen dramatically over the years. Laptops used to use components designed for desktops, which were very power hungry. Now they use dedicated mobile parts that draw less power and generate less heat. That's part of the reason batteries last longer... we're getting better electronics, not batteries.

[jpkiwigeek]

@rory79 Only just noted this due to lack of @ - your argument is still wrong, I'm afraid. A mobile laptop processor uses something like 10-14W, a 286 was 3.3W. Next, think of all the OTHER things in the laptop: Very power GPUs, exceptionally fast busses (1.3GHz vs 16mHz)... there's simply no comparison. The power drawn by a frontline laptop is significantly greater than older laptops. They use less power than desktop processors, they definitely _do not_ use less power than older laptops.

[electricvelocity]

"We need [oil] for so many other things: fertilizers, plastics... ferrari's at the weekend on disused airfields driving sideways"

Yes! Anyone who loves sports cars (guilty here) should love cutting oil use so there is more gasoline to power our weekend fun!

[Joe90V]

Rory's argument about laptops? He's wrong; the designers of laptops require mobility & sleekness more than battery power. 3 or 4 hrs is plenty to do your work on the move or give a presentation. Then you plug it like any other electrical gadget and carry on using it while it recharges. I'm sure a "longer lasting battery" could be fitted, but they will have done their market research. Believe me!

[adric22]

The whole argument about the "coal powered car" really irritates me, not only because it is wrong, but because I don't think that everybody who buys an electric car is doing it because they care about the environment. I'm sure a lot of them are, but I bet a lot of people have other motives. For me, I hate going to gas stations and pumping gas int he freezing cold. I also hate evil oil companies.

[eldictator1]

@adric22 I'm with you on this one. I care about the air I breathe in and the air my kids will breathe in, but my motive is a technology based one, because the bottomline is electric motors are infinitely better , electric cars are easier to maintain and to drive. I want the independence from the forecourt. I want to come home from work drive into the garage get out and plug in, get up the next day and thats it

[Vanuatoo]

Energy can be harvested from wind, nuclear stations, also from sun in the future.

There is also one big argument nobody is talking about.

Electric cars need less maintenance and less fossil fluids over the lifetime.

You don't need to have engine oil changed every 5k miles, no antifreeze.

Also there is no need for an exhaust and catalytic converter ( which costs an arm and a leg), no need for belts, filters and all the tubes inside the hood.

BTW Nissan leaf could cost you 20k USD in some states.

[greyareaRK1]

Early combustion cars had many more short comings than current electrics. Their poor reliability and high cost of maintenance caused New York, Boston and Chicago to purchase fleets of electric taxis instead. Nearly a third of cars sold in 1900 were electric.

If you want early adopters, taxis would be a good place to start. They would profit most from the low cost of operation, and they're urban (easier to fuel). Might need faster charging stations and/or swappable batteries systems though.

[jpkiwigeek]

Rory doesn't quite have his argument right on laptop batteries. While the useful running life of the laptop hasn't changed, laptops are significantly more powerful today and consequently use more power; The batteries have improved plenty, it's just the laptops need more juice today. (1988 Compaq SLT286 battery: 680g, 2800mAh. 2008 Dell Vostro 1700 battery: 325g, 7200mAh)

[JRoque250]

@jpkiwigeek And the argument that batteries haven't progressed much since their 1908 first use in cars is just as weak. Battery research was essentially abandoned for 100 years while ICE have been taking all the focus. Even with all that R&D and market on ICE favor, we still get barely 30 miles per gallon from your average car. In just a few years, EVs will surpass all ICE accomplishments and then some.

[epdm2be]

@jpkiwigeek : Well yeah but... IBM thinkpad 380D (1997) Battery 3600mAh. Lenovo thinkpad R61 (2007) Battery 4400mAh. Things should have been much more advanced between 1997 and 2007 don't you think?

[jpkiwigeek]

@epdm2be Note the weight listed - a Vostro battery that weight as much as the SLT286 batt would put out 9000mAh. But you're probably right, they probably could've done better.

[batlin]

@jpkiwigeek I don't think modern laptops use significantly more power - CPUs have come a long way in reducing power consumption over the last 10 years or so. For the most part, batteries have improved plenty because people expect their battery life to be longer than before. And it is... somewhat :)

[drivin98]

Next time, get him a Tesla to drive. And a bit of open road. That should open up a whole other area of discussion.

Speaking of Tesla, you should compare the energy density of the batteries in the I MiEV with the Panasonic cells planned for the Mdel S. Huge improvement.

[eldictator1]

@drivin98 Good point

[mazzarak]

Bobby, you're in the wrong seat. Very interesting. Good Stuff.

[WOODSYMAN]

You guys should have this debate on "proper" tele.

[telmomartinho]

I think the electric car just makes a modern fuel car look like its from medieval times... all that noise, smoke, oil, engine maintenance etc etc....

I compare people that don't like electric cars to those that +-15year ago hated computers and now are totally addicted to Facebook, iPhone etc etc ahhahaahhaha

[karuddell]

The Detroit Electric was advertised to go 80 miles per charge with the optional nickel-iron battery back in 1911. That option cost $600 dollars more, which would be about $14,000 today. If you used a lithium-ion battery of the same weight it would go 400 miles per charge. If you used the same physical size, a lithium-ion battery would give you a range of 960 miles. I would say batteries are better today.

[peterknight183]

If you want to step from your petrol/diesel car into an electric car and want it to be exactly the same, you will not be satisfied (not at the moment). People like that will always find reasons against Electric Cars. The price thing is an issue, that's why many of the car manufacturers take steps into the EV market with sports cars - people seem to be happy to pay a premium when the car 'goes a bit faster'. It's not just cars that need to change, it's peoples expectations of them.

[Joe90V]

If you charge your electric vehicle from Ecotricity all the figures quoted in the programme are completely different. Wind and solar power reduce those g/km figures drastically. Roll on the future, free of the shackles and dodgy politics of oil companies.

[nightshadowblade]

Good video, but I have to disagree on the "batteries won't improve fast enough" part. There are many technologies in the making and the reason batteries have not improved THAT much since 1908 is simply because there was not enough effort put into it and the petrol industry "shelfed" a lot of good ideas. Last month there was a news in the german media: watch?v=i4IXOxSxB7U. The inventors converted a Audi A2 and drove from Munich to Berlin on one charge, about 380 miles with 18% juice left.

[zlozlozlo]

@nightshadowblade that's awesome. Seems they even outperformed Tesla Motors. I've been so busy watching the american EV scene, I neglected to look around over here in Europe. It seems we're ahead not only in use of renewable energy sources, but also EV technology.

[Joe90V]

Fossil fuel and the engines are now out of date technology and we need to change attitudes and embrace the electricity revolution. Racing Green Endurance have proved that "range anxiety" is already old hat. Dale Vince's Nemesis has proved that they can be fast. Tesla have proved they can be appealing, cont..

[Joe90V]

I'm 55 now and when I left school I worked for NatWest briefly. Their computer filled a warehouse sized space and had less memory than the AppleMac I'm typing on now. People who think battery technology, electric cars and their components won't improve, are burying their heads in the sand, continued...

[zlozlozlo]

@mashux ... you get some 20% of your capacity on quickcharge. You drive another hour, it's time for lunch break. 30 minutes to 1 hour of charge, you get 50 to 100% on quickcharge. Even with today's battery technology, you can go great distances without any signifficant time loss this way. All it takes is to change your habit a little bit, and little planing, which will be greately aided by the car's navigation software.

[zlozlozlo]

@mashux furthermore, you are forgetting about the quickcharge. With most cars it's something like 45 minutes from zero to 80%. But you don't need to charge for 45 minutes every time you charge.

OK let's assume you're going on a longer trip. 300, 400 miles, but your car can only go 150 on a single charge. It is likely you'll be making breaks - coffe break, lunch break,etc. You can charge during these breaks (assuming the infrastructure is there) - coffe break, 10 minutes,...

[zlozlozlo]

@mashux I think this is the most common misconception. People are afraid of 'suddenly running out of battery'. Well do they suddenly run out of gas? No. Because they plan. They refill when they see the tank is going low. Electric cars have a very verbose way of telling you that you need to recharge.

People usually take the empty to full charging time into consideration. But this is rarely the case. When you run out of gas, you don't need a full tank to get you moving again.

[zlozlozlo]

I know it's future technology, but it's not interdimensional space travel or anything. Prof. Cui estimates the batteries could hit the market in about 5 years. I'd really like someone (ideally you) to cover this technology in a video sometime. Just to raise awareness and help preventing it from disappearing in the dust like so many other green technologies have.

BTW don't you just hate the 500 character limit on youtube comments? In other words, sorry for the essay.

[sappha58]

To me, I think the strongest argument for switching to electric vehicles is that we have reached, or even surpassed, the point of getting the "easy" oil. Go Google the phrase "peak oil" and see what you find - it's a scary idea. But there is not an unlimited supply of oil, and we've already gotten most of what is easily accessible.

[zlozlozlo]

-Limited range? How about the 244 mile range of the Tesla Roadster, and the 300 mile range of the upcoming Model S? (with the biggest battery pack) That still not enough?

Enter silicon nanowire battery technology. It has the theoretical potential to increase the capacity of today's li-ion batteries ten times. The results I've seen so far show 3 to 4 times more capacity, while SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCING CHARGING TIIME. I'm quoting the research of associate prof. Yi Cui at Stanford University.

[zlozlozlo]

As for the arguments...

-Battery technology is not developing as fast as anticipated. Hmm. Why would that be? If you are going to make this argument, you need to look at the whole picture, that is oil companies buying patents for battery technologies.

The nice thing is, now that so many investors have vested interest in this, they won't be able to suppress battery technology development as they did in the past.

[tsport100]

BORING... seriously, for anyone to argue AGAINST EVs simply means they don't understand the basics.

These naysayers need to comprehend this: The battery pack in a Nissan leaf holds the equivalent of just 0.65 US Gallon worth of energy.

It will travel 100 miles on the energy equal of just over half a gallon worth of energy. There isn't a car in the world that has a fuel tank that small.

In fact a car with a 20 gallon fuel tanks requires 30x as much energy to cover just double the range.

[zlozlozlo]

Glad to see an update. I was beginning to suspect big oil had you... taken care of.

Great episode. It demonstrates the typical mindset of people in today's society.

I personally believe that most of our problems stem from our inability to anticipate and embrace new technologies and the impact they will have on us. I like this Reid guy, but he's a typical example of this mindset. He only sees what is now, seeems to me he doesn't even bother to look into what's coming in the next 3 to 5 years.

[rory79]

If range isn't an issue then why is the government looking into building so many recharging points? If it wasn't a big deal then we'd all just stick to our 100 miles cruising range, recharge at home and not give a damn about topping up on the move.

Range is a huge issue -- even for petrol cars. That's why there's a petrol station on almost every corner.

[tsport100]

@rory79 Is gross exaggeration the only way to win a debate? Petrol Stations are not on "almost every corner", their numbers have been reducing for decades.

Why are their plans to install alot of charging stations? There are MANY reasons. Most cars spend 80% of the time parked. Grid power is easily accessible EVERYWHERE. Charge points are cheap to install and run. It's more an incentive and convenience than it is a business opportunity.

[sledgecallier]

I think the 'range' issue is a bit of a duff argument because as vpoppv says, the average journey in the US (and I believe this isn't far off the in the UK as well) is far less than 100 miles.

To say "Well, if I can't go 250 miles then a car is useless" is a nonsense argument and the equivalent of saying a Mini Cooper is useless because you can't fit a family of 5 and all of their luggage in there!

All cars are designed for specific needs and electric cars are best suited for shorter journeys.

[jacksawild]

You should have let his tyres down when you left. WIN

[vpoppv]

Wow, I guess people drive way more in the UK than the US if 100 miles is rubbish. Americans average 33.4 miles per day, or about a third of the distance you can get out of a Leaf.

[UK1774]

@vpoppv hardly anybody on a day to day basis will do more than 100 miles a day in the UK. Sure if your car is part of your job like a onsite repair technician or a sales rep electric is not for you. For the rest of us a 100 miles on a charge would work out fine

[antiLeixo]

nice "fight"

[leezaal]

Great post, thanks for sharing

[Llitsor]

The first friendly debate of it's kind I have seen?! Good stuff :)

I guess the fly in the ointment for me, is the selling price of electric cars currently (excuse the pun). Limited range and other issues I think I could live with.