You played in its sands swam in its sea, stood still when greed enveloped those with property. Sands will come and go from North and from the South, play on its sand, swim in its sea and just be grateful for Avoca Beach as are the majority.
Costing many business and local community groups thousands will be the only thing those against the ship will be remembered for down the track. These very same people stood still in the face of developement of this wonderful coastal town. Eyesores now litter the beachfront and the hill side has been inundated with out of character dwellings along the first cape. Never were your voices heard about pollution of that beautiful rock shelf where thousands litter and degrade every year, NEVER!!
To the majority of people from Avoca, thank you for being so receptive to having such a beautiful ship from OUR past scuttled close enough for ALL Sydney-siders to enjoy & visit...To the knockers who hide behind the crowd... deal with it... the ocean is there for ALL to enjoy and be a part of... this isn't your own dedicated part of the world just for you! If it's so terrible, then move... no one is making you stay. Your whining is very un-Australian so just go away and be miserable elsewhere
The amount of sea life on existing sunken ships, from fish to coral and everything in between, suggest that toxicity isn't an issue. Coral does not survive in toxic environments.
What is obvious from this video is the participants don't like divers.
The amount of sea life on existing sunken ships, from fish to coral and everything in between, suggest that toxicity isn't an issue. Coral does not survive in toxic environments.
Oh yes..the rock pool creates the major rips. The worst in Australia apparently, BULLSHIT!! The most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.
I grew up in the area and surfed all the beaches, north and south of Avoca. In my opinion, rips were the worst around the Wamberal bend...that was in the 70's mind you...things change all the time. The ROCK POOL...oh SURE!!!!
I must point out that the Kiwi frigate you referred to as the Waitakoo is actually the the ex HMNZS Waikato Waikato being a district and river in New Zealand. If you can't get the detail in your argument correct, you lose credibility. I must also note that whilst you do mention the 'Waitakoo' (sic), you make no mention of the Rainbow Warrior which was sunk a little further north of the Waikato. In fact, I do believe it was 'gifted' back to the sea by Greenpeace! WTF??
Fuck i hate avoca people.. they seem to think the sun shines out their anus. this video is a crock of shit!!!! we were never known by others as the best surfing beach, or the beach with the great little theatre... and now that the ship is sunk.. NOTHINGS GOING TO HAPPEN!!! Your just a bunch of NON PROFESSIONALS whose opinion can be considered vastly overshadowed by the ACTUAL PROFESSIONALS who made the decision to go ahead with the sinking..
Avoca Best Surfing Beach in N.S.W.????? Really makes me question whether these people have ever been anywhere else. Conveniently missed a whole side of the argument.
2 things mike one you say its a hazard to the whales, whales arnt stupid they know how to swim around things and they can see even in the dark and in dirty water thanks to ecolocation otherwise well you would hear stories about whales running into ships out at see and everything
as for the news broadcast well terrigal is what 1km if that from avoca and more people know where avoca is than terrigal you also neglect to mention the media that says avoca
@MikeRubbo theres no point now as the courts will decide what happens. Maybe you should have came to the actual official public meetings held for the whole of the central coast not just a few selfish residents who panicked at the last minute!
Sorry, wrong, Mackster tube, We challenge you to debate these points any day.
1. There were no public meetings in Avoca.beach.
2. When one was finally held in north Avoca in Jan. we were told. Roo late, it's decided .
3. The ship looks very toxic (see photos) . The sheathed cabling going down into bulkheads. Look good to you?
4. The ship is full of fibreglass padding. When wads of it wash up, and the headlines read."Ship debris on Avoca beach." who's going to want to swim here anymore?
1.The meeting was held at ourimbah to consult a the whole central coast not just Avoca if you had a car you could drive there, if you truly cared about this ship not being there!
3. How can a ship look toxic. All tests have been done.
4. Any debris that can come off has been removed. Anything that comes loose after the explosions will be cleaned up straight away and within the six week period following before diving commences and any ongoing maintenance
@MikeRubbo The cleanup company is an experienced Australian company which does there job properly. All your arguments are based on rumours and lies not facts. Any report or fact that comes out you people refuse to believe. Scientific reports mean nothing to you. You are going to believe and say things which help your cause, you don't care about truth just about not sharing a beach which you believe is yours and not the whole communities and people of Australias
@MikeRubbo What is your authority for deciding a communities brand. You do not speak for all residents as there were quite a few from Avoca at the proship rally on the 27th. This is a postive thing and promotes marine life not destroy it. All the environmental studies say that it will increase marine life not kill it so if you are against marine life I guess you wouldn't want the ship.
@MikeRubbo Your whole argument comes down to you think it's your spot and you don't want to share. When people diving it will leave from Terrigal anyway. Your depriving people of jobs, there future and about 11 million dollars per year for the coast. This is a safe ship you have no feasable argument. Protestors argument about whales being affected is laughable, your not giving them much credit are you!
I agree with the person who commented below. And the speculation that you all did not care when the Adelaide was destined for Terrigal.
Why on earth did you guys rase your questions when the hour is so late, when this has already cost our community so much. I'm sure your little posse over Avoca way are stoked as, but the ramifications for the wider community are huge. You should play fair and celebrate with a BBQ; buy the 500 extra sausages the Kincumber butcher will probably have to throw out.
I want the noship action group to be held responsible for the cost of the signage/advertising placed around the suburbs, otherwise we the taxpayers will be held responsible for these costs!
So what your saying is its too toxic for Avoca but as long as its Terrigal or somewhere else in the ocean its safe hahahaha you are all kidding yourselves. You all need to get lives. P.S- Is your NO SHIP band of merry followers going to help reimburse all the businesses, charitys, clubs that have already paid out a lot of money in food, shirts that would be helping raise money for their local clubs/communitys. Get over yourselves Avoca.
Its the same the world over Government do what they like they forget they serve the people. So often they do things for lobby groups or business that goes against common sense.
In my city they bult offices on the best preserved Viking settlement in the world. The Scandnavian countries pleaded with our Govt to preserve the site. They built the offices anyway and distroyed the remains.
There was no reason to do what they did except the fear that they did not want to give in to protest
We don't need the ship.... Avoca has enough tourism and as locals we are happy with it as it is ! The ship will not bring anything for us...the media always said it was going off Terrigal, so sink it off Terrigal ! Simple. We are happy with what we have....we are not greedy, just content and grateful !
This is a simple case of 'not in my backyard you dont'. It has been common knowledge that this ship was going down for an age, off Terrigal? off Avoca? the environmental concerns you're putting forward would have effected the greater area yet you choose to act weeks prior to its scuttling? mounting a class action? that takes months and years to organise, and the costs involved? get another hobby toads! The ships going down 'folks of the village' get on your wagon and off your soapbox!
To those of you who have expressed trust in the governments "it's completely safe" attitude to sinking the Adelaide or any other ship, just remember they said the same thing about DDT, asbestos, thalidomide, lead, PCB's and agent orange, to mention just a few...History has shown that 'blind faith' is a dangerous thing, please don't be so closed minded that you don't ask questions! That is what I am doing and so far I am not satisfied with the answers.
Congratulations to the person who pushes the button, you'll receive a life membership to the world environmental terrorist association! Yes, you'll be world famous (for about 15 seconds) and then you can relect for the rest of your life about the enormous damage you've been party to, in potentially destroying a pristine part of the eastern Australian coastline. And afterwards, please don't swim at Avoca Beach because it may be very toxic and we wouldn't want you to get sick!
So why was it ok to sink it off Terrigal but now that it is being sunk off Avoca its not safe and its a Death trap hahahaha you bunch of parrots. get a life
I'll say it again very slowly for you, JKLMj. We have our brand. It is a a great one based on surfing, swimming , etc.This ship does not fit our brand. We no dive shops, no dive facilities.
None. Nada!
True, It might not be good off Terrigal either because of toixicity, but if it fits Terrigal's image, brand, then that's fine for Terrigal.
The court has upheld our right to dispute this being foisted on us. Grab it back for Terrigal, mate, since you are so keen.
I hope you are not going to be too disappointed when they don't sink it , Zusjegeoff, cos believe me , they wont.
Why? Can you imagine what this does for our international image as clean, green, and democratic?
Recycling? well only sometimes when it suits us. Consultation ? Well only when it suits us. The Govt . is about to spend 20 mill. on re-branding Australia to lure tourists. Meanwhile, Avoca's excellent brand is trashed without it's owners permission. No lure that, mate.
Chris I can't understand why this is happening ! I agree why take a gamble on how nature will react to this RUBBISH dumped in our beautiful Avoca ! Surely we have to start to learn from our passed mistakes? History is full of man made disasters,many of which we have been told would be safe . Lets stop this from being another for the next generations to come.Thank you for all those working so hard to stop this !
How ironic that the day the Government has chosen to dump this rubbish in our ocean is the same day the world participates in Earth Hour 2010, pledging to RECYCLE, save energy and our planet. Our Government backs Earth Hour allegedly, but it seems they do not know what it means - or when it is.
HMMM! Well there youhave it. The Oliver Harzard Perry frigates are only 13.7 metres. So if it is sunk perpindicular to the shore they should not be any tidal disturance. As for the heavy metals etc. You may get a slight oil leak for a couple of weeks but that should minimal and disappear in time for the next summer. As for whales. I am sure that they can use their sonars to avoid the ship. It should be a bonus for the people and businesses of the central coast. I`ll be there to watch her go.
Hi Smokincrater, you have no worries about this ship going down just off our beach. How about the following? Avoca beach was never consulted. Considering that this is all about diving and we have no dive shops, surely we need to be asked if we want to play host to someone else's money making schemes
And what about the damage to our brand? We are known as a surf comp. venue, as a quiet village with a historic movie theatre. None of that is enhanced by this scuttling, indeed the reverse.
The PCB transormers and capacitors will be removed. They arent within bulkheads. They are installed in dedicated rooms so that they can be easily accessed for repair. Do you think shipbuilders are stupid enough to build them into the superstructure?If these ships are full of toxic metals why would the Navy allow sailors to serve in them. The Department of Defence is one of the most risk adverse groups in the country. Ships have HAZMAT registers...these materials have been removed
The Government needs to stop and see what they are doing. Do you research guys and see how dangerous this is. The Government is lying to us saying the ship is clean!!!!! and we are going to have to deal with the consequences of PCB & heavy metal contamination
So why has nothing ever been done about the rockpool ? I think people of Avoca are more worries about the effect on their land prices.
Avoca is a pretty beach and a nice community but hardly the premier surfing beach on the coast. You will find more surfers at copa and soldiers any day of the week.
After yesterday's ballot, how interested will Belinda Neal be in stopping the sinking? I for one are sick and tired of getting the 'mushroom treatment'!However we're informed that the seat of Robertson is the most marginal electorate in Australia and therefore my vote will become very powerful come the next election! NO SHIP OFF AVOCA BEACH!!!
Basically, get over it. There are over 3 million wrecks on the ocean floor and i'll say again, if this thing is as toxic as you all say it is then why not the uproar when the site was "Terrigal", its less than a kilometre away (as the crow flies) what is 1k when there is such nasty things as you all say there is. Get over it and I hope I am the one who sends her to the bottom.
Its too close, there is not enough information and its not clean enough yet! We need more time to do more research and find out what it is going to do. Remove all that toxic paint, ensure the sand movements are not going to be affected and ensure the wildlife won't be impacted, then lets discuss its placement!
$6 MILLION DOLLARS of taxpayers money to destroy a ship that may have Toxins and has not had a full Environmental study is disgusting, the Avoca residents have every right to f. ear the repurcusion of the toxins that may leak from this ship. Dont sink the ship Mr Garrett. dont sign the document
Todays rally showed there is great concern over the impact that the sinking of the ex HMAS Adelaide may have on our beautiful beach.
Where were our local politicians, why weren't they at the rally. They are meant to represent the local people and ye they weren't there today in support for us. yes Belinda Neal had a preselection event on, but what about Chris Hartcher?? Wee was he?
Political spin has deceived the public and pushed this through without opposition. It is arrogant to think that nature can be manipulated in this way and devastating that we continue to purposely pollute our planet. How can it be acceptable to dump a huge piece of scrap metal, covered in thousands of litres of toxic paint (not to mention PCBs) into our ocean? This is happening on your watch Peter Garratt - do the right thing, use your power and prevent an environmental disaster.
To me the whole thing just seems wrong. There is probably a good chance that the sinking of the ship will have no adverse effect on the beach BUT the whole process has been wrong. Deceiving the people of Avoca and spending millions on making sure that it goes ahead without finding out what people really think is an another example of our wonderfully run government.
Very well done Mike. All the no sinking responses say it all! What else can I say, but DITTO! Let's hope peter Garrett reads the message loud and clear! NO SHIP!!!
Peter Garrett you were the great hope of so many Australian environmentalists please don't let us down on this issue. Unfortunately many adverse environmental decisions have to be made by you. The sinking of the Adelaide is unnecessary. Please make a stand to save the Central Coast from risking a potential environmental disaster.
Peter Garrett knows Avoca Beach well. I talked to him in the lobby of our theatre a few years ago.
After having had a very bad run this last month, I see this as a chance for him to bring some decisive power and wisdom to bear to stop this sinking. Mike
Quality video and Avoca seems to be showing the community spirit that every other area wishes it had. Shame no politcians want to listen to their local community and voters
Thanks matnewman, The community spirit which has opposed this silly plan, has been fantastic. Making movies to help this cause has been very satisfying too.
Please tell ten friends to watch our videos and leave comments so that our concerns go viral. This forum is a referendum.
When we've won, I want to get back to something positive I'd like to see happen here
That's for Avoca Beach to become the push bike capital of the Central Coast, and the E bike capital of Aust. Mike
Reply jklmj' Well we have another person who does not know the real facts. It was only by chance that we found out the ship was being scuttled off Avoca Beach, 4 weeks ago. The difference with the Avoca community is that we have had no consultation , no meetings, no parties to attend and to say the ship is being scuttled off Terrigal is like saying Manly is next door to Bondi.
Please jklmj come along on Saturday morning at 10am at the shark tower and get more information, I would just like independant invesigations to prove to me this is safe for us all and our future generations, this has just not been carried out.....this is NOT about where your from Terrigal or Avoca its about taking care of our oceans and our environment!
I actually just thought of a couple of other points on this.
1) If the HMAS Adelaide is as dangerous and as poisonus as these "Avocians" say it is, then please tell me why it was ok and there was no protesting to the extent that it has become now when the site was Terrigal, which is roughly 1K away???? I'm pretty sure that if this ship is as toxic as these grouches from Avoca are saying 1K would not do Jack CRAP to lessen the toxicity that they are claiming that this ship will bring.
Jmlkj. You make some good points. We've been a bit NIMBY on this, not so worried when we thought it was going to Terrigal
It's about identity. We have a great identity based on our surf culture, and we don't want the shadow of this ship changing that identity. Our identity's worth a lot to us. Diving is not
If Terrigal sees the ship as enhancing their identity, then I guess Terrigal has the right to have it, even though i think it's a bad idea anywhere because of possible toxins. Mike
Avoca Beach residents have"NO SAY". The ship is being dumped on a unique sandbar 1700m from shore. 4000 tonnes of rusting scrap metal in 35 metres of water. I am no expert but how can they say this will not affect the beach. Avoca residents are not stupid - this is an act of environmental vandalism. How can the government possibly justify their decision.
I personally cannot wait for the HMAS Adelaide to be sunk. I am a surfer and I dive and this is going to be great for the Coast. So here is what i have to say. How long have we known that this Ship was being sunk off "Terrigal", we knew for ages, then all of a sudden it is actually being sunk off Avoca and everyone starts crying about it. So it seems that when the Adelaide was to be sunk off Terrigal it was fine, but then it was found that it was to be sunk off Avoca and now the whinging starts
Please Mr Rudd can you really afford another environmental disaster by your government!! Polluting our natural beautiful beaches...I thought we were a country priding itself on looking after our land and seas, take note please before its too late!!
Yes, we have been duped by those who rate money above all else! and if this ship goes down we will all know that we have become the dumping ground for the governments difficult waste and when we swim we will know that we swim in the waters that have washed over this corroding vessel.
there are so many reasons why this ship should not be dumped.. but the bottom line is that our kids and future generations are the ones that will suffer.
WHY doesnt the government do a EIS report as requested? WHY wont the government allow an independant assessor to review the ship once it has been "cleaned"? What are they hiding.. this is a money driven scheme to save dollars!! Diverse are the minority.. We need answers.. or dont dump it.
RALLY Saturday 6/3/10 SHARK TOWER. MANPOWER. come all
The whole idea of sinking a ship off Avoca Beach is absolutely crazy. Our once beautiful beach will become a polluted bay and unsafe for anyone to swim in, let alone dive.
The government and the Land of Environment, should have consulted the real people of avoca and told us the truth, that the sinking would infact occur off Avoca and not Terrigal,
we have large swimming groups at terrigal AND avoca..and surfers and clubbies..if we happen to have swimmers constantly in the way of the boats attempting to leave the haven then they cant access the open water...if the wreck is no longer on the agenda, then we go back to normal life...just an idea that cuts the problem off at the roots, and is peaceful protesting...
i hear some hinting it's ok off terrigal but not avoca-that disheartens me-we're all locals-and any negatives will spread both ways-make our argument-DONT SINK IT ANYWHERE-if authorities bluff us with scientific reports, then use an argument they cant rebutt-that's-boats trading from haven are endangering lives AND polluting water-this is fact and is known by MSB and Gosford council-we have them on liability right there-we just need to push it-if boats cant access the wreck, they wont sink it
Sinking the HMAS Adelaide off the coast of Avoca Beech may be a boon to the local diving industry but it is an affront to everyone else who lives there. $6 billion has been spent preparing for this event with no EIS having been carried out. How will it affect the surfing? The sand? The migrating whales? Nobody knows, and until they do this plan should be stopped in its tracks.
I would like to know if this will increase the number of sharks coming into the bay at Avoca Beach, one of the most popular holiday swimming and surfing beaches on the NSW coast? A group of us does an ocean swim off Avoca every morning. It's part of our life. While sharks may not be so interested in us humans, the more fish out there on the artificial reef created by the HMAS Adelaide, the more sharks, and the more sharks there are, the more risk that one will mistake us for lunch. Pauline.
I feel utterly deceived It seems the bureaucrats feel near enough is good enough. I would not like to be stranded off Avoca Beach and have search and rescue told I was off Terrigal! I would never be found. NO! near enough is not good enough.
Common sence tells me every action has a reaction and the possibility of an adverse affect to Avoca Beach by sinking this vessel is not only possibile but probable Why take the risk This is our beach and and it IS our business and should be our choice
Since this ship sinking is obviously being done to please a corporation in Terrigal, Pro-Dive, that wants to run divers out to the sunken ship, why don't they sink the ship in the sea off Terrigal? And who is paying the $6 million for the ship and its sinking?
Ruining such a splendid beach has to be gross stupidity!
It makes sense that sinking a ship so close to Avoca shores will have a potentially devastating effect on its ecology...why can't they see that? Lets hope that the government, rethink their plans to dump this piece of rubbish off such a beautiful beach - that would be negligent. There has to be a better solution to disposing of this ship and the government, owe it to Avoca to find out what that is.
It is outrageous that the announcement about Avoca was made so late in the organization of the scuttling. As long term residents of Avoca we are appalled at this lack of consultation. An EIS must be carried out to ensure the safety of beachgoers and the pristine quality of the beach itself.
Excellent little film Mike. The outrageous attitudes and actions of those in power in this matter are more in keeping with Communist China. They say they are going ahead with the sinking of the Adelaide off our beautiful Avoca Beach, yet they haven't even consulted with the major stakeholders --- the residents of Avoca. Legitmate concerns have not been addressed. Spokespeople for the authorities are being deceitful and deliberatley misleading. Its a shameful, obvious snowjob!
A gorgeous beach like Avoca is the result of a lucky confluence of topography and current. It is rare, and it is fragile. That a large object would be plunked down on the seabed so close to shore, without any thought as to its effect on the beach system, shows astounding myopia.
If a building were erected in a downtown, its effect on wind and lines of sight would be modelled and analyzed before moving forward. In this case, the only factor seems to have been the convenience of tour operators.
Excellent video and amazing distribution via youtube. I hope that you succeed in changing the scuttle site. Why destroy a natural environment? It is perfection as it is, and should be kept AS IS. Thank you Michael and good luck to all concerned. Joyce Borenstein
I was surprised when this recklessness was brought to my attention. In the interest of fair disclosure, I am not an Australian but a European; and this matter will have no direct impact on my organisation or me. I am prepared to believe that this plan has advanced because it remains unknown to the more rational members of the Australian government. I have communicated my concerns to suitably connected persons and the media. I sincerely hope this is all that is required to restore some sanity.
The real truth is if the Avoca Beach community had been adequately informed this project could never have gone ahead 1700m from the beach. The consulting proof is in the pudding until 2 weeks ago 99% of the Avoca Beach community thought this dumping was going ahead 3klm's off Terrigal. The fact that this was approved by state and local governments before the environmental reports were published has rightfully got people asking questions.
If it is true that no Environmental Impact Study has been conducted, how on earth can they go ahead with the scuttling? It is obscene.
This, surely, is the best avenue to take to delay (at least) and cancel (hopefully) the project. How does one go about starting such an opposition? Who do I call?
There are plenty of wrecks elsewhere to dive around - why does everybody have to have everything in their 'own backyard' - with no regard for the fact that it is not their 'own' backyard!
wouldn't happen off Avalon or Bondi...but this is the shire of Gosford Council...and labour's Belinda (iguanagate) Neil...our beaches are already littered with dog feces and urine..take from that what you will
Obviously the Govt was relying on stealth for this one. I hope you can get enough supporters and become a squeaky enough wheel so that a FULL EIS can be done and presented to residents prior to anything being done. I mean developers HAVE to do them all the time as a council requirement, yet this is going ahead with out any EIS or proper local consultation??... surely one is needed here??
Great movie, Mike, very haunting - completely blows out of the water any 'street cred' we had with regards to our notional concern for the environment
How about a 'scuttling' in Lake Burley Griffin so that the boat actually becomes part of our existing Political Theme Park? - Pro-Dive could then set up a franchise down there and 'explore' ad infinitum
You played in its sands swam in its sea, stood still when greed enveloped those with property. Sands will come and go from North and from the South, play on its sand, swim in its sea and just be grateful for Avoca Beach as are the majority.
TheWowowo 8 months ago
Costing many business and local community groups thousands will be the only thing those against the ship will be remembered for down the track. These very same people stood still in the face of developement of this wonderful coastal town. Eyesores now litter the beachfront and the hill side has been inundated with out of character dwellings along the first cape. Never were your voices heard about pollution of that beautiful rock shelf where thousands litter and degrade every year, NEVER!!
TheWowowo 8 months ago
To the majority of people from Avoca, thank you for being so receptive to having such a beautiful ship from OUR past scuttled close enough for ALL Sydney-siders to enjoy & visit...To the knockers who hide behind the crowd... deal with it... the ocean is there for ALL to enjoy and be a part of... this isn't your own dedicated part of the world just for you! If it's so terrible, then move... no one is making you stay. Your whining is very un-Australian so just go away and be miserable elsewhere
SGTINJ 10 months ago
The amount of sea life on existing sunken ships, from fish to coral and everything in between, suggest that toxicity isn't an issue. Coral does not survive in toxic environments.
What is obvious from this video is the participants don't like divers.
petert71 10 months ago
The amount of sea life on existing sunken ships, from fish to coral and everything in between, suggest that toxicity isn't an issue. Coral does not survive in toxic environments.
petert71 10 months ago
Oh yes..the rock pool creates the major rips. The worst in Australia apparently, BULLSHIT!! The most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.
I grew up in the area and surfed all the beaches, north and south of Avoca. In my opinion, rips were the worst around the Wamberal bend...that was in the 70's mind you...things change all the time. The ROCK POOL...oh SURE!!!!
loutondacoast 10 months ago
I must point out that the Kiwi frigate you referred to as the Waitakoo is actually the the ex HMNZS Waikato Waikato being a district and river in New Zealand. If you can't get the detail in your argument correct, you lose credibility. I must also note that whilst you do mention the 'Waitakoo' (sic), you make no mention of the Rainbow Warrior which was sunk a little further north of the Waikato. In fact, I do believe it was 'gifted' back to the sea by Greenpeace! WTF??
derflieger598070 10 months ago
fucking hippie! i hate the bastards
77magenta 10 months ago
Fuck i hate avoca people.. they seem to think the sun shines out their anus. this video is a crock of shit!!!! we were never known by others as the best surfing beach, or the beach with the great little theatre... and now that the ship is sunk.. NOTHINGS GOING TO HAPPEN!!! Your just a bunch of NON PROFESSIONALS whose opinion can be considered vastly overshadowed by the ACTUAL PROFESSIONALS who made the decision to go ahead with the sinking..
Libertymy03 10 months ago
Avoca Best Surfing Beach in N.S.W.????? Really makes me question whether these people have ever been anywhere else. Conveniently missed a whole side of the argument.
James1981Aussie 10 months ago
2 things mike one you say its a hazard to the whales, whales arnt stupid they know how to swim around things and they can see even in the dark and in dirty water thanks to ecolocation otherwise well you would hear stories about whales running into ships out at see and everything
as for the news broadcast well terrigal is what 1km if that from avoca and more people know where avoca is than terrigal you also neglect to mention the media that says avoca
JaiTee86 1 year ago
Comment removed
luiz127 1 year ago
Why not organize a public debate, mackstertune? In Avoca.
MikeRubbo 1 year ago
@MikeRubbo theres no point now as the courts will decide what happens. Maybe you should have came to the actual official public meetings held for the whole of the central coast not just a few selfish residents who panicked at the last minute!
mackstertube 1 year ago
@MikeRubbo
Chrazzari 1 year ago
Sorry, wrong, Mackster tube, We challenge you to debate these points any day.
1. There were no public meetings in Avoca.beach.
2. When one was finally held in north Avoca in Jan. we were told. Roo late, it's decided .
3. The ship looks very toxic (see photos) . The sheathed cabling going down into bulkheads. Look good to you?
4. The ship is full of fibreglass padding. When wads of it wash up, and the headlines read."Ship debris on Avoca beach." who's going to want to swim here anymore?
MikeRubbo 1 year ago
@MikeRubbo Sorry wrong Mikerubbo
1.The meeting was held at ourimbah to consult a the whole central coast not just Avoca if you had a car you could drive there, if you truly cared about this ship not being there!
3. How can a ship look toxic. All tests have been done.
4. Any debris that can come off has been removed. Anything that comes loose after the explosions will be cleaned up straight away and within the six week period following before diving commences and any ongoing maintenance
mackstertube 1 year ago
@MikeRubbo The cleanup company is an experienced Australian company which does there job properly. All your arguments are based on rumours and lies not facts. Any report or fact that comes out you people refuse to believe. Scientific reports mean nothing to you. You are going to believe and say things which help your cause, you don't care about truth just about not sharing a beach which you believe is yours and not the whole communities and people of Australias
mackstertube 1 year ago
@MikeRubbo What is your authority for deciding a communities brand. You do not speak for all residents as there were quite a few from Avoca at the proship rally on the 27th. This is a postive thing and promotes marine life not destroy it. All the environmental studies say that it will increase marine life not kill it so if you are against marine life I guess you wouldn't want the ship.
mackstertube 1 year ago
@MikeRubbo Your whole argument comes down to you think it's your spot and you don't want to share. When people diving it will leave from Terrigal anyway. Your depriving people of jobs, there future and about 11 million dollars per year for the coast. This is a safe ship you have no feasable argument. Protestors argument about whales being affected is laughable, your not giving them much credit are you!
mackstertube 1 year ago
I agree with the person who commented below. And the speculation that you all did not care when the Adelaide was destined for Terrigal.
Why on earth did you guys rase your questions when the hour is so late, when this has already cost our community so much. I'm sure your little posse over Avoca way are stoked as, but the ramifications for the wider community are huge. You should play fair and celebrate with a BBQ; buy the 500 extra sausages the Kincumber butcher will probably have to throw out.
kelmarbak 1 year ago
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I want the noship action group to be held responsible for the cost of the signage/advertising placed around the suburbs, otherwise we the taxpayers will be held responsible for these costs!
afriedchicken 1 year ago
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mate, I cant wait for Saturday. I live at Avoca and I will be standing on the hill cheering with my kids!
This protest is fuelled by a group of latte sipping, 4WD stay at home mums (and that is an observational fact!)
Noshippers - go and sit by the road sucking in petroleum fuels whilst you sip on your lattes!
afriedchicken 1 year ago
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So what your saying is its too toxic for Avoca but as long as its Terrigal or somewhere else in the ocean its safe hahahaha you are all kidding yourselves. You all need to get lives. P.S- Is your NO SHIP band of merry followers going to help reimburse all the businesses, charitys, clubs that have already paid out a lot of money in food, shirts that would be helping raise money for their local clubs/communitys. Get over yourselves Avoca.
jklmj 1 year ago
Its the same the world over Government do what they like they forget they serve the people. So often they do things for lobby groups or business that goes against common sense.
In my city they bult offices on the best preserved Viking settlement in the world. The Scandnavian countries pleaded with our Govt to preserve the site. They built the offices anyway and distroyed the remains.
There was no reason to do what they did except the fear that they did not want to give in to protest
andrew097 1 year ago
We don't need the ship.... Avoca has enough tourism and as locals we are happy with it as it is ! The ship will not bring anything for us...the media always said it was going off Terrigal, so sink it off Terrigal ! Simple. We are happy with what we have....we are not greedy, just content and grateful !
yellowjetbike 1 year ago
This is a simple case of 'not in my backyard you dont'. It has been common knowledge that this ship was going down for an age, off Terrigal? off Avoca? the environmental concerns you're putting forward would have effected the greater area yet you choose to act weeks prior to its scuttling? mounting a class action? that takes months and years to organise, and the costs involved? get another hobby toads! The ships going down 'folks of the village' get on your wagon and off your soapbox!
love xox
sleepingsusan 1 year ago
To those of you who have expressed trust in the governments "it's completely safe" attitude to sinking the Adelaide or any other ship, just remember they said the same thing about DDT, asbestos, thalidomide, lead, PCB's and agent orange, to mention just a few...History has shown that 'blind faith' is a dangerous thing, please don't be so closed minded that you don't ask questions! That is what I am doing and so far I am not satisfied with the answers.
Annsthoughts 1 year ago
Congratulations to the person who pushes the button, you'll receive a life membership to the world environmental terrorist association! Yes, you'll be world famous (for about 15 seconds) and then you can relect for the rest of your life about the enormous damage you've been party to, in potentially destroying a pristine part of the eastern Australian coastline. And afterwards, please don't swim at Avoca Beach because it may be very toxic and we wouldn't want you to get sick!
Annsthoughts 1 year ago
So why was it ok to sink it off Terrigal but now that it is being sunk off Avoca its not safe and its a Death trap hahahaha you bunch of parrots. get a life
jklmj 1 year ago
I'll say it again very slowly for you, JKLMj. We have our brand. It is a a great one based on surfing, swimming , etc.This ship does not fit our brand. We no dive shops, no dive facilities.
None. Nada!
True, It might not be good off Terrigal either because of toixicity, but if it fits Terrigal's image, brand, then that's fine for Terrigal.
The court has upheld our right to dispute this being foisted on us. Grab it back for Terrigal, mate, since you are so keen.
MikeRubbo 1 year ago
See the new film now uploaded, The sinking of the Avoca Brand, for an answer. Mike
MikeRubbo 1 year ago
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zusjegeoff 1 year ago
I hope you are not going to be too disappointed when they don't sink it , Zusjegeoff, cos believe me , they wont.
Why? Can you imagine what this does for our international image as clean, green, and democratic?
Recycling? well only sometimes when it suits us. Consultation ? Well only when it suits us. The Govt . is about to spend 20 mill. on re-branding Australia to lure tourists. Meanwhile, Avoca's excellent brand is trashed without it's owners permission. No lure that, mate.
MikeRubbo 1 year ago
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zusjegeoff 1 year ago
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gilfac2 1 year ago
Chris I can't understand why this is happening ! I agree why take a gamble on how nature will react to this RUBBISH dumped in our beautiful Avoca ! Surely we have to start to learn from our passed mistakes? History is full of man made disasters,many of which we have been told would be safe . Lets stop this from being another for the next generations to come.Thank you for all those working so hard to stop this !
xIROMPASTOMPIx 1 year ago
NO SHIP
RyWakie 2 years ago
How ironic that the day the Government has chosen to dump this rubbish in our ocean is the same day the world participates in Earth Hour 2010, pledging to RECYCLE, save energy and our planet. Our Government backs Earth Hour allegedly, but it seems they do not know what it means - or when it is.
Scriven68 2 years ago
Great video Mike
The Government needs to take a good look at what they are doing!!
Don't polute our coastline!!! What is more important Money or Health!!!
kytlopoo 2 years ago
HMMM! Well there youhave it. The Oliver Harzard Perry frigates are only 13.7 metres. So if it is sunk perpindicular to the shore they should not be any tidal disturance. As for the heavy metals etc. You may get a slight oil leak for a couple of weeks but that should minimal and disappear in time for the next summer. As for whales. I am sure that they can use their sonars to avoid the ship. It should be a bonus for the people and businesses of the central coast. I`ll be there to watch her go.
smokincrater 2 years ago
Hi Smokincrater, you have no worries about this ship going down just off our beach. How about the following? Avoca beach was never consulted. Considering that this is all about diving and we have no dive shops, surely we need to be asked if we want to play host to someone else's money making schemes
And what about the damage to our brand? We are known as a surf comp. venue, as a quiet village with a historic movie theatre. None of that is enhanced by this scuttling, indeed the reverse.
MikeRubbo 2 years ago
The PCB transormers and capacitors will be removed. They arent within bulkheads. They are installed in dedicated rooms so that they can be easily accessed for repair. Do you think shipbuilders are stupid enough to build them into the superstructure?If these ships are full of toxic metals why would the Navy allow sailors to serve in them. The Department of Defence is one of the most risk adverse groups in the country. Ships have HAZMAT registers...these materials have been removed
dirbasics 2 years ago
The Government needs to stop and see what they are doing. Do you research guys and see how dangerous this is. The Government is lying to us saying the ship is clean!!!!! and we are going to have to deal with the consequences of PCB & heavy metal contamination
kytlopoo 2 years ago
So why has nothing ever been done about the rockpool ? I think people of Avoca are more worries about the effect on their land prices.
Avoca is a pretty beach and a nice community but hardly the premier surfing beach on the coast. You will find more surfers at copa and soldiers any day of the week.
Nice doco though and good luck with your cause.
bella2262 2 years ago
NO SHIP! it's too close to our beautiful beach!! theres too much at risk.
ThePwnage222 2 years ago
After yesterday's ballot, how interested will Belinda Neal be in stopping the sinking? I for one are sick and tired of getting the 'mushroom treatment'!However we're informed that the seat of Robertson is the most marginal electorate in Australia and therefore my vote will become very powerful come the next election! NO SHIP OFF AVOCA BEACH!!!
Annsthoughts 2 years ago
Basically, get over it. There are over 3 million wrecks on the ocean floor and i'll say again, if this thing is as toxic as you all say it is then why not the uproar when the site was "Terrigal", its less than a kilometre away (as the crow flies) what is 1k when there is such nasty things as you all say there is. Get over it and I hope I am the one who sends her to the bottom.
jklmj 2 years ago
Its too close, there is not enough information and its not clean enough yet! We need more time to do more research and find out what it is going to do. Remove all that toxic paint, ensure the sand movements are not going to be affected and ensure the wildlife won't be impacted, then lets discuss its placement!
sarajjjkkk 2 years ago
premier surfing beach on the nsw coast? get real
thatfamousguy 2 years ago
$6 MILLION DOLLARS of taxpayers money to destroy a ship that may have Toxins and has not had a full Environmental study is disgusting, the Avoca residents have every right to f. ear the repurcusion of the toxins that may leak from this ship. Dont sink the ship Mr Garrett. dont sign the document
catesin 2 years ago
Todays rally showed there is great concern over the impact that the sinking of the ex HMAS Adelaide may have on our beautiful beach.
Where were our local politicians, why weren't they at the rally. They are meant to represent the local people and ye they weren't there today in support for us. yes Belinda Neal had a preselection event on, but what about Chris Hartcher?? Wee was he?
Poppitable 2 years ago
Political spin has deceived the public and pushed this through without opposition. It is arrogant to think that nature can be manipulated in this way and devastating that we continue to purposely pollute our planet. How can it be acceptable to dump a huge piece of scrap metal, covered in thousands of litres of toxic paint (not to mention PCBs) into our ocean? This is happening on your watch Peter Garratt - do the right thing, use your power and prevent an environmental disaster.
Scriven68 2 years ago
To me the whole thing just seems wrong. There is probably a good chance that the sinking of the ship will have no adverse effect on the beach BUT the whole process has been wrong. Deceiving the people of Avoca and spending millions on making sure that it goes ahead without finding out what people really think is an another example of our wonderfully run government.
mightydoggies1 2 years ago
Very well done Mike. All the no sinking responses say it all! What else can I say, but DITTO! Let's hope peter Garrett reads the message loud and clear! NO SHIP!!!
urbankelpie 2 years ago
Very well presented video thank you Mike Rubbo.
Peter Garrett you were the great hope of so many Australian environmentalists please don't let us down on this issue. Unfortunately many adverse environmental decisions have to be made by you. The sinking of the Adelaide is unnecessary. Please make a stand to save the Central Coast from risking a potential environmental disaster.
charlicait 2 years ago
Peter Garrett knows Avoca Beach well. I talked to him in the lobby of our theatre a few years ago.
After having had a very bad run this last month, I see this as a chance for him to bring some decisive power and wisdom to bear to stop this sinking. Mike
MikeRubbo 2 years ago
Quality video and Avoca seems to be showing the community spirit that every other area wishes it had. Shame no politcians want to listen to their local community and voters
matnewman 2 years ago
Thanks matnewman, The community spirit which has opposed this silly plan, has been fantastic. Making movies to help this cause has been very satisfying too.
Please tell ten friends to watch our videos and leave comments so that our concerns go viral. This forum is a referendum.
When we've won, I want to get back to something positive I'd like to see happen here
That's for Avoca Beach to become the push bike capital of the Central Coast, and the E bike capital of Aust. Mike
MikeRubbo 2 years ago
Reply jklmj' Well we have another person who does not know the real facts. It was only by chance that we found out the ship was being scuttled off Avoca Beach, 4 weeks ago. The difference with the Avoca community is that we have had no consultation , no meetings, no parties to attend and to say the ship is being scuttled off Terrigal is like saying Manly is next door to Bondi.
p23avoca 2 years ago
Please jklmj come along on Saturday morning at 10am at the shark tower and get more information, I would just like independant invesigations to prove to me this is safe for us all and our future generations, this has just not been carried out.....this is NOT about where your from Terrigal or Avoca its about taking care of our oceans and our environment!
Jacko6412 2 years ago
I actually just thought of a couple of other points on this.
1) If the HMAS Adelaide is as dangerous and as poisonus as these "Avocians" say it is, then please tell me why it was ok and there was no protesting to the extent that it has become now when the site was Terrigal, which is roughly 1K away???? I'm pretty sure that if this ship is as toxic as these grouches from Avoca are saying 1K would not do Jack CRAP to lessen the toxicity that they are claiming that this ship will bring.
jklmj 2 years ago
Jmlkj. You make some good points. We've been a bit NIMBY on this, not so worried when we thought it was going to Terrigal
It's about identity. We have a great identity based on our surf culture, and we don't want the shadow of this ship changing that identity. Our identity's worth a lot to us. Diving is not
If Terrigal sees the ship as enhancing their identity, then I guess Terrigal has the right to have it, even though i think it's a bad idea anywhere because of possible toxins. Mike
MikeRubbo 2 years ago
Avoca Beach residents have"NO SAY". The ship is being dumped on a unique sandbar 1700m from shore. 4000 tonnes of rusting scrap metal in 35 metres of water. I am no expert but how can they say this will not affect the beach. Avoca residents are not stupid - this is an act of environmental vandalism. How can the government possibly justify their decision.
p23avoca 2 years ago
I personally cannot wait for the HMAS Adelaide to be sunk. I am a surfer and I dive and this is going to be great for the Coast. So here is what i have to say. How long have we known that this Ship was being sunk off "Terrigal", we knew for ages, then all of a sudden it is actually being sunk off Avoca and everyone starts crying about it. So it seems that when the Adelaide was to be sunk off Terrigal it was fine, but then it was found that it was to be sunk off Avoca and now the whinging starts
jklmj 2 years ago
Please Mr Rudd can you really afford another environmental disaster by your government!! Polluting our natural beautiful beaches...I thought we were a country priding itself on looking after our land and seas, take note please before its too late!!
Jacko6412 2 years ago
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Yes, we have been duped by those who rate money above all else! and if this ship goes down we will all know that we have become the dumping ground for the governments difficult waste and when we swim we will know that we swim in the waters that have washed over this corroding vessel.
gilfac 2 years ago
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gilfac 2 years ago
there are so many reasons why this ship should not be dumped.. but the bottom line is that our kids and future generations are the ones that will suffer.
WHY doesnt the government do a EIS report as requested? WHY wont the government allow an independant assessor to review the ship once it has been "cleaned"? What are they hiding.. this is a money driven scheme to save dollars!! Diverse are the minority.. We need answers.. or dont dump it.
RALLY Saturday 6/3/10 SHARK TOWER. MANPOWER. come all
rach29avoca 2 years ago
The whole idea of sinking a ship off Avoca Beach is absolutely crazy. Our once beautiful beach will become a polluted bay and unsafe for anyone to swim in, let alone dive.
The government and the Land of Environment, should have consulted the real people of avoca and told us the truth, that the sinking would infact occur off Avoca and not Terrigal,
Poppitable 2 years ago
Thanks Mike and all the community in making a stand for keeping our beautiful Avoca just that!
dinky683 2 years ago
we have large swimming groups at terrigal AND avoca..and surfers and clubbies..if we happen to have swimmers constantly in the way of the boats attempting to leave the haven then they cant access the open water...if the wreck is no longer on the agenda, then we go back to normal life...just an idea that cuts the problem off at the roots, and is peaceful protesting...
corepersonaltraining 2 years ago
i hear some hinting it's ok off terrigal but not avoca-that disheartens me-we're all locals-and any negatives will spread both ways-make our argument-DONT SINK IT ANYWHERE-if authorities bluff us with scientific reports, then use an argument they cant rebutt-that's-boats trading from haven are endangering lives AND polluting water-this is fact and is known by MSB and Gosford council-we have them on liability right there-we just need to push it-if boats cant access the wreck, they wont sink it
corepersonaltraining 2 years ago
Sinking the HMAS Adelaide off the coast of Avoca Beech may be a boon to the local diving industry but it is an affront to everyone else who lives there. $6 billion has been spent preparing for this event with no EIS having been carried out. How will it affect the surfing? The sand? The migrating whales? Nobody knows, and until they do this plan should be stopped in its tracks.
stefanmoore8 2 years ago
I would like to know if this will increase the number of sharks coming into the bay at Avoca Beach, one of the most popular holiday swimming and surfing beaches on the NSW coast? A group of us does an ocean swim off Avoca every morning. It's part of our life. While sharks may not be so interested in us humans, the more fish out there on the artificial reef created by the HMAS Adelaide, the more sharks, and the more sharks there are, the more risk that one will mistake us for lunch. Pauline.
paulinejwright 2 years ago
I feel utterly deceived It seems the bureaucrats feel near enough is good enough. I would not like to be stranded off Avoca Beach and have search and rescue told I was off Terrigal! I would never be found. NO! near enough is not good enough.
Common sence tells me every action has a reaction and the possibility of an adverse affect to Avoca Beach by sinking this vessel is not only possibile but probable Why take the risk This is our beach and and it IS our business and should be our choice
Annsthoughts 2 years ago
Since this ship sinking is obviously being done to please a corporation in Terrigal, Pro-Dive, that wants to run divers out to the sunken ship, why don't they sink the ship in the sea off Terrigal? And who is paying the $6 million for the ship and its sinking?
Ruining such a splendid beach has to be gross stupidity!
dorothyhenaut 2 years ago
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I was already worrying and now am even more disturbed.
Let us hope we can all make a difference through our many voices combining.
May this wave of concern be felt by the right people who have the power to at least review the environmental impact reports.
msjaneane 2 years ago
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msjaneane 2 years ago
It makes sense that sinking a ship so close to Avoca shores will have a potentially devastating effect on its ecology...why can't they see that? Lets hope that the government, rethink their plans to dump this piece of rubbish off such a beautiful beach - that would be negligent. There has to be a better solution to disposing of this ship and the government, owe it to Avoca to find out what that is.
gretskisify 2 years ago
It is outrageous that the announcement about Avoca was made so late in the organization of the scuttling. As long term residents of Avoca we are appalled at this lack of consultation. An EIS must be carried out to ensure the safety of beachgoers and the pristine quality of the beach itself.
shelley84332 2 years ago 2
Excellent little film Mike. The outrageous attitudes and actions of those in power in this matter are more in keeping with Communist China. They say they are going ahead with the sinking of the Adelaide off our beautiful Avoca Beach, yet they haven't even consulted with the major stakeholders --- the residents of Avoca. Legitmate concerns have not been addressed. Spokespeople for the authorities are being deceitful and deliberatley misleading. Its a shameful, obvious snowjob!
MySteve40 2 years ago
A gorgeous beach like Avoca is the result of a lucky confluence of topography and current. It is rare, and it is fragile. That a large object would be plunked down on the seabed so close to shore, without any thought as to its effect on the beach system, shows astounding myopia.
If a building were erected in a downtown, its effect on wind and lines of sight would be modelled and analyzed before moving forward. In this case, the only factor seems to have been the convenience of tour operators.
xtophermarley 2 years ago
They say they have done modeling of wave formatiion and sand movement
But I understand they only modeled the impact on waves at the point where the rock pool is, and not right across the beach.
We'll that not good enough since people surf all the way across, from south to north Avoca.
As for sand movement, new studies done by Macquarie Univ. show sand is moved down to 40 meters and not 30 meters, as previously thought. Mike
MikeRubbo 2 years ago
Excellent video and amazing distribution via youtube. I hope that you succeed in changing the scuttle site. Why destroy a natural environment? It is perfection as it is, and should be kept AS IS. Thank you Michael and good luck to all concerned. Joyce Borenstein
illuminationanimatio 2 years ago
Thanks, Joyce. I'm impressed that are writing from Canada
MikeRubbo 2 years ago
I was surprised when this recklessness was brought to my attention. In the interest of fair disclosure, I am not an Australian but a European; and this matter will have no direct impact on my organisation or me. I am prepared to believe that this plan has advanced because it remains unknown to the more rational members of the Australian government. I have communicated my concerns to suitably connected persons and the media. I sincerely hope this is all that is required to restore some sanity.
kellettcorp 2 years ago
Great piece, Mike. So often government would rather not inform the people . . .
MSCblogspot 2 years ago
The real truth is if the Avoca Beach community had been adequately informed this project could never have gone ahead 1700m from the beach. The consulting proof is in the pudding until 2 weeks ago 99% of the Avoca Beach community thought this dumping was going ahead 3klm's off Terrigal. The fact that this was approved by state and local governments before the environmental reports were published has rightfully got people asking questions.
gazsunset 2 years ago
Great video, I really hope this can be stopped! Can't believe how quiet this was kept from the community.. did we ever have a choice in it?
jparahi 2 years ago
If it is true that no Environmental Impact Study has been conducted, how on earth can they go ahead with the scuttling? It is obscene.
This, surely, is the best avenue to take to delay (at least) and cancel (hopefully) the project. How does one go about starting such an opposition? Who do I call?
There are plenty of wrecks elsewhere to dive around - why does everybody have to have everything in their 'own backyard' - with no regard for the fact that it is not their 'own' backyard!
nitramluap 2 years ago
wouldn't happen off Avalon or Bondi...but this is the shire of Gosford Council...and labour's Belinda (iguanagate) Neil...our beaches are already littered with dog feces and urine..take from that what you will
corepersonaltraining 2 years ago 2
Obviously the Govt was relying on stealth for this one. I hope you can get enough supporters and become a squeaky enough wheel so that a FULL EIS can be done and presented to residents prior to anything being done. I mean developers HAVE to do them all the time as a council requirement, yet this is going ahead with out any EIS or proper local consultation??... surely one is needed here??
Good luck with your fight.
Esmummy 2 years ago
Great movie, Mike, very haunting - completely blows out of the water any 'street cred' we had with regards to our notional concern for the environment
How about a 'scuttling' in Lake Burley Griffin so that the boat actually becomes part of our existing Political Theme Park? - Pro-Dive could then set up a franchise down there and 'explore' ad infinitum
SueWithoutHelmet 2 years ago 2
Spending $6 millions to create an environmental risk?
That's odd.
Has this govt that claims to be "green" considered recycling all that iron?
The lack of consultation is appalling.
Sadly, it's not unusual from this govt.
silver7931 2 years ago