Schumacher Monaco Incident

[superFrontrunner]

"Lewis we are being investigated for an incident between Schumacher and Alonso, your pace is good, keep up the good work"

[raymondu99]

Moral of the story is; it's ok to cheat, as long as you don't get caught

[xenn33]

yeah, for those who think that Senna never did such thinks watch watch?v=tbNLHGJUGTQ (Senna cheating in Monaco 1985). They're both THE greatest. said enough

[chrismarkbicknell]

@xenn33 I've seen that clip. Senna moved when the blue flag was shown.

[paddy080585]

nothing better and nothing worse than Senna. It's just that Senna died while he was racing, so he is an untouchable legend and no-one dares to speak of incidents like this for example - Just type in: Ayrton Senna cheating in Monaco qualifying 1985

[chrismarkbicknell]

@paddy080585 I've seen it and Senna moved whilst as the blue flag was shown to him. Perfectly legal. Also, Senna's death isn't what makes him a legend. It's the fact he produced some of the most memorable drives in F1 history. eg: Not many F1 fans reminisce about Scchumacher's wet drives in Spain 1996. However, Senna's wet weather performances in Monaco 84 & Donington 93 are considered by many to be the greatest wet weather drives of all time. And rightly so.

[paddy080585]

@chrismarkbicknell I would be careful with statements like that. Experts on formula 1 always mention Spain '96 first when it comes to wet conditions alongside with Donington 93. Also the fact that one moves when the blue flag is shown doesn't mean the opposition doesn't lose time, especially in Monaco and Senna was perfectly aware of that. As far as remarkable drives are concerned there are quite a lot, such as Hungary 1998 in dry conditions and there are many more such as...

[paddy080585]

@chrismarkbicknell ...Belgium 1992, Spain 1994, Belgium 1995, Brazil 2006 or more recently Canada 2011 and Belgium 2011 and I could just go on like that. It's more about what one wants to regard as great driving or not. Those who will claim Senna was the best will put his successes above those of Schumacher, but if Senna hadn't died he would certainly just be seen as on the same level as Prost and Mansell. He wouldn't be regarded as a legend. While we can undoubtedly say...

[paddy080585]

@chrismarkbicknell ...that by the number of his successes and titles Schumacher already is a legend although he is still alive. And the interesting part is that even drivers who were not particularly fond of Schumacher such as Hill, Coulthard and Irvine would say that he is probably the fastest all-round driver the world has ever seen...which is an oppinion shared by other experts such as Eddie Jordan or Murray Walker. I still give all respect to Senna and I don't want to...

[paddy080585]

@chrismarkbicknell ...say that he was slower than Schumacher because we cannot objectively tell, but the point here is that Senna was just as ruthless in going for the victory as Schumacher was. His death tho makes the bad things blur and fade because you don't speak bad of the dead, while Schumacher is still at it, pushing hard and p*ssing those off who fight against him and the fans of the latter.

[chrismarkbicknell]

@paddy080585 TO be fair you do have a great point & I thing I was probably not being very objective when I made that outright statement about Senna's wet races being more well remembered then Schumi's. The thing that has always interested me about the Schumi/Senna story is how much of an effect Senna had on Schumi's career both in life and in death. For example, Schumi learnt alot from Senna about preperation, attention to detail etc etc from Senna and even down to details like (CONTINUED)

[chrismarkbicknell]

@paddy080585 being nice to the back markers so they don't cause you prblems were things that he learnt from him. The most interesting factor is this though. Before Senna signed for Williams in 94 he met with Ferrari and he had an agreement (not in writing however) that in 96 Senna would leave WIlliams & see out the last 4 years of his careers with Ferrari. Which raises the question. How different would Schumi's career have been had Senna lived??  (CONTINUED)

[chrismarkbicknell]

@paddy080585 Now, please don't think I am disrepecting Schumacher with last comment. I think Schumacher would have been a multiple time World Champion regardless. However, it does raises all sortsquestions. Would Schumacher have gone to Williams or McLaren? WOuld he have won 7 world titles? 91 Grand Prixs? etc etc. Personally I would love to see aan author or film maker tell the Senna/Schumi story as it is or F1s great untold rivalries.

[TheEljay]

Schumacher was such a great driver but, my god, he's a dick. I mean, unsporting moves like that make me shiver when I say his name. A disgrace to the sport in my opinion.

[chrismarkbicknell]

@TheEljay I agree. Schumacher was 1 of the greatest natural talents F1 has seen. However, as far as I'm concerned he is no better then people like Ben Johnson, Hanse Cronje, Mike Tyson, Jake La Motta etc etc. All great sportsmen who ruined their legacy through cheating

[TheEljay]

@chrismarkbicknell well said.

[ikra]

even i could have made that corner with all four wheels locked up.

[shreyasisro2]

@toodsf1: Nice Joke!!! He thinking of all these possibilities in a split second??? I doubt!!!

[toodsf1]

@shreyasisro2 Ok I admit the thing about saying that he deliberately locked the right front was stupid but Schumi was way too good a driver (in terms of skill - not sportsmanship) to make such a "mistake"

[shreyasisro2]

@toodsf1: Dude even the greatest of great people make silly mistakes but what I really want to say is no one except schumacher can knw if it was deliberate or no!!! All I would say he couldnt fall to a level lower than senna in such stuff!!! Cheating - 50% chance Mistake - 50%!! I would also like to ask why he would do it in this turn itself when he could do it at more tight corners??

[toodsf1]

@shreyasisro2 If it was deliberate I don't know why he would choose this corner over others but I think it was deliberate. You don't seem to be convinced either way but I that's fair enough. I think Schmi was cheating and you don't - I'm cool with that :)

[shreyasisro2]

@toodsf1: Exactly..!! Am arguing for and against the possibilities of him cheating..!! All am trying to say is u will never know for sure!!! In cases such as Senna u can clearly make out he is a big cheat!!!

[MacGovernor]

@shreyasisro2 Senna was not a cheater... He hated politics. Schumacher on the other hand just plain sucked at Monaco after year 2001. Schumacher was also a nervous wreck during championship clinching weekends; 1994, 1997 collided with a Williams, first time getting away with it. 1998 stalled on the grid and spun off; 2003 poor qualifying and a pathetic race finishing 8th. 2006 Just 4th when needed to win the race, instead his team mate won it like in 03.

[chrismarkbicknell]

@shreyasisro2 That's what F1 drivers do. they can make dozens of adjustments on their steering wheel every lap, make split second decisions and, in some cases, make decisions like Michael made here. Other examples of behaviour like this from F1 drivers: Schumacher 1997 Jerez, Alain Prost 1989 Suzuka, Ayrton Senna 1990 Suzuka, Fernando Alonso 2007 Hungary . look through the history of F1 and you will find dozens of examples

[cfcnlr]

hed of been in second and the way he raced the following day he would of blew the wheels of fernando alonso!!

[MagicAyrtonforever]

The guy is a stupid twat full stop

[elverdaderoparavos]

@goldeye355 CHUPAME LA PIJA PELOTUDO

[TankCoco]

Schumacher's probably the most intelligent F1 driver ever. He's not an arsehole for doing this, he's a genius, no other driver thought of doing this :L

[oseano10]

@TankCoco Yeah, let's award him for every dirty trick he made. And, where is his brilliance now?

[TankCoco]

@oseano10 i'm not saying it's good or right what he did I'm just saying it was genius :L

[chrismarkbicknell]

@TankCoco Yeah, a genius. Such a genius that he failed to see the big picture. Hestarted last but fought through the field in the race. Proving he was the fastest man out there. Had he not cheated & started 4th or 5th on the grid he would've won the race and had a much better chance of an 8th world title.  Genius?? I don't think so

[TheColinChapman]

telemetry data showed that he allegedly lost control over his car at 16kph....:-))

[MegaMrDamo]

i never really rooted for Schumi, but this remains to this day very funny, and I have full respect for him doing it XD

[TheBazooka120]

mtv3 ja oskari saari



[TheColinChapman]

telemetry showed that he lost control over his car at 15kph.:-))

[AlPacino1337]

Er hätte damals einen starken Verbremser einlegen sollen, dann hätte keiner etwas bemerkt.

[suszple]

szopos sumi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[guromaon]

those eight points Schumacher decided to lose here could have defined the title in another way

[Krames92]

He is not even trying to hit the apex of the corner either.. It's so obvious to see that this is on purpose.

[themomentone]

@Krames92 an 18 year old guy that probably never sat in a race car on a race track trying to judge.. please stop bullshitting, you are just emotional and fail to analyze a situation from a rational point of view. you are a shame for denmark.

[supercas46]

@themomentone Just a shame that the stewards and all the drivers who were there on that day happen to agree with him eh?

[allleafs]

This is no different from what Alonso did to Hamilton in the pits of Hungary 2007......Please realize people in order to win Championships you need a beast-like attitude. Senna purposely crashed into Prost in Japan to secure his championship and he admitted it. Stop swearing like little boys and try to understand a winning mentality...which may be hard for some of you..

[chrismarkbicknell]

@allleafs I agree with you about the Alonso thing. However, the Senna/Prost issue ran a lot deeper then just sealing the title. Senna finally reached breaking point after what happened at Suzuka in 89, Balestre's abuse of power & siding with Prost and the fact that the Pole Position was put on the dirty side of the track. Senna lost his cool. It's no excuse. As Senna fan that was a real low point but I can understand why he felt that he had to do it.

[roe5745]

SCHUMACHER = TWAT

[rexuro64]

thats how he gets he pole lol

[vuetube]

NO WAY! He was going so fast, you can TOTALLY see the back end step out in slo mo. Those spaghetti eaters are a bunch of cheaters. Don't sick Guido on me for pointing out the obvious.

[Formel1Fan89]

Heheheheh what a idiot.....................

[BetoIbeas]

This is Schumacher: bad carater ever!

[DciuzFIN]

Schumi is no doubt the best ever,but same time biggest asshole,blocker,ass hittiing cheater.

[stRunF11]

gtfo it was engine u fuckin dumbass

[Michaelingolfhansen]

The stupid thing is that with his talent he did not need to do these things!

It's just soo stupid!

Apart from the telemetry which was reviewed carefully by the stewards, his steering at 0:07 kinda gives him away...why does he not continue to turn right?!

[hell5torm]

it is so obvious! he is cheating! cuaght in the act!

you would think that with all his experience he would know better

[themomentone]

@Michaelingolfhansen his right rear would have hit the wall in this case. there is reason to believe that it really was a driving mistake.

[Krames92]

@themomentone There is no reason to believe that it was a mistake. Just take a look at the way he turns into the corner. He has lowered his speed so much that he is able to go on the inside of the apex, which he does in this case. Even that screams not a mistake. The second thing is that he turns the wheel back in the 0 degree angle. After he misses the apex the wheel goes from 180 degrees to 0 degrees and back to 180+ again. Turn the wheel back to 90 degrees and you go around the corner.

[themomentone]

@Krames92 he goes back to 0 degrees at 0:07 seconds and thats exactly what i meant, otherwise his right rear wheel would have hit the wall. get a 1:18 scale model of a formula 1 car, watch the top-view of the incident, try to turn in like that to make the corner - see what happens :) wont work without hitting the wall.

you are completely unobjective with saying "theres is no reason to believe that it was a mistake.." obviously there is :/

[suprchrgr]

@Michaelingolfhansen He is a Great of the sport, no doubt, but how much is your Greatness tarnished when your teammate pulls over to give you the win? And to forget how a steering wheel works when you're at the highest level of motorsport? A Great but not the greatest......

[chrismarkbicknell]

@suprchrgr 100% right. Michael was one of the gratest natural talents th sprot has ever seen. However, his actions through out his career have tainted his reputation and that is why many people still say that Clark, Senna, Fangio, Ascari etc etc etc were the greatest of all time. Michael Schumacher: Great Driver, Bad example of what a world champion should be.

[kokochan7]

@Michaelingolfhansen It does look like he was understeering pretty badly, maybe he straigtened back out for a sec to regain traction? Pretty sure with how good of a driver he is he coulda made this look more convincing... Who knows could have just been a huge brainfart.

[icemanf109]

@Michaelingolfhansen if you watch closely, his two front tires, mostly the right are locked up when the tires are pointing straight. then they start to go again, at which schumi starts to turn the wheel. also, in mid corner he locks up his front right.

[Ferrari123planb]

@Michaelingolfhansen well the back end would come out and the front rear would lock up in a turn position resulting in a crash into the barrier. he was stabalizing the car :)

[chrismarkbicknell]

@Michaelingolfhansen What's even more dumb then that is Schumacher was so fast in the race that even if he had of started from 4th or 5th he would have gone on to win. Worse still had he won in Monaco he could still have been world champion. In the end he was the architect of his own downfall in 2006. This is the other side of Schumacher. For all his skill & ability the guy was a cheat. that is why he I will always prefer Nigel Mansell and Ayrton Senna.

[PieLighter]

Fucking cheater.

[stRunF11]

gtfo it was engine u fuckin dumbass

[PieLighter]

it was not schumi stopped to stop alonso getting pole and so the stewards quite rightly penalised him. another person who has wasted a minute of my life.

[r0fflec0pt]

You gtfo. I'm a schumacher fan, but its obvious that wasnt ebgine. The engine doesnt control steering, dumbass

[mgarofano]

Buffone ,they said, and that's exacly what he is.He should learn to walk on his own legs like Senna ,Montoya or Hakkinen without Barrichello,Massa and Sauber and all the dirty joke that always stopped other clean driver.....Buffone

[GEXM10]

0:07

[kubazksmu]

he's have got penalty becouse this is specjal stopped car

[kralle27]

tja verlieren konnte er noch nie... positiv wie negativ

[gazza1388]

Howcome everyone hasent made such a fuss about Räikkönen's error then?

[Tirana20]

Because people hate schumacher and just wanna make fun of him. That's how gay and idiotic people who make fun of him are.

[tracto91]

and because raikkonen has hit his car before

[JimmyK377]

because Raikkonen's error was quite obviously an embarassing mistake, whereas schumacher's was probably a chance to block alonso that occurred to him as the car slid slightly... Or he just drove really badly, and then failed to remember how reverse gear worked, Raikkonen with a wrecked car at least managed to get it out the way :)

[gazza1388]

Listen mate, cut the seriousness, I was having a laugh, quite obvious I thought, I think its good to see things like that in F1 spices things up and gets people talking, would be boring if nothing like this happened! lol

[JimmyK377]

quite surprised to see my name there, forgot i made that comment. must have been in a bad mood at the time.

It was more an angry response to the first reply to your last comment :p

I *really* don't like schumacher :p overrated... and it's so damn impossible to actually compare drivers in this sport (way too many factors involved in terms of the car and how it works with the driver) that all fanboyishness is pointless.

[Mummins]

So why do u think Schumacher didn't simply crash the car slightly? That was not on purpose it was just looking stupid. Schumacher made during his career more of those stupid errors, like in 05 where he crashed behind the safety car or crashed with Albers in the information lap.

That thing in monaco had to be punished because other driver would have done those things on purpose, that is the only reason for that hard punishment.

[JimmyK377]

He's also made bad decisions during his career, like 94 and 97.

It's not a situation he should have had any trouble controlling, the car slid slightly and he didn't seem to control it with his usual skill, and it's not like the installation lap as he must have been paying attention here. At the very least he managed to stall it afterwards, which is impressively bad, and rather un schumacherish.

But anyway, he's been gone for quite some time, probably time to let these 'cheat' debates go away.

[rubenick]

drove badly!?!?!? We who can think call it CHEATING!!!

[TheAdams2006]

@JimmyK377 a bit late but to keep an open mind part of the reason MS didnt reverse was the oncoming cars, raikkonnen did and nearly backed into massa!

[JimmyK377]

@TheAdams2006 A bit late indeed lol. I can barely remember this tbh, 5 years ago my mind may have been less open yep

[chrismarkbicknell]

@TheAdams2006 Schumacher claimed that he was trying to find reverse gear and that was when the car stalled. it was this lie that nailed him really as the FIA's investigation showed the car didn't stall, the engine was shut off and and no point did he attempt to find reverse gear

[DeadbeatXT]

@JimmyK377 reversing while on track is a black flag right?

[JimmyK377]

@DeadbeatXT Dunno, maybe. I'm not sure, think the point I was trying to make all those years ago was that he gave up suspiciously easily in dealing with the situation.

[KoivuTheHab]

@JimmyK377 F1 cars do not have a reverse gear, what an idiotic statement...

[JimmyK377]

@KoivuTheHab Yes they do, it's just very rarely used. It's certainly in the regulations that they can have one. Do some research before calling something idiotic.

[KoivuTheHab]

@JimmyK377 No they do not. It may very well be in the regulations that they can have one, however this would add a small amount of weight and would make the gearbox a more complicated part of the car, in turn suffering durability and stability, in other words an increased amount of risk of failiure of the gearbox. F1 cars may have had a reverse gear in the old times, however anyone who knows anything about F1 knows they haven't been in use for a long time. Please show proof of a F1 car reversing

[JimmyK377]

@KoivuTheHab Article 5.1. 9.7 Reverse gear :

"All cars must have a reverse gear operable any time during the Event by the driver when the engine is running." - FIA Regulations Transmission Section (won't let me post URL for some reason)

1. Looks like they have to, therefore they do, I suppose you know more than the FIA about it too though?

2. Cut the attitude anyway mate, I don't know why you're taking some off-hand remark I made nearly 5 years ago so seriously in the first place.

[KoivuTheHab]

@JimmyK377 I'm sure you can also explain why Schumi decided not to use his reverse gear in the video above? Doesn't make a lot of sense now does it pal? Just show us a video of a Formula 1 car reversing, until then you don't know anything about the subject (which you clearly don't).

[JimmyK377]

@KoivuTheHab Er that was the point/joke I was making in the original comment, which people are taking way too seriously... It may well not be allowed in that situation, but I neither know / care.

RE: reverse, I'm not finding a video (find your own pal), but I might as well post this again:

Article 5.1.

9.7 Reverse gear :

All cars must have a reverse gear operable any time during the Event by the driver when the engine is running.

Of course the FIA don't know anything about the subject either ;)

[chrismarkbicknell]

@KoivuTheHab Yes they do. in fact,Schumacher's excuse for this was that the car stalled whilst he was trying engage reverse gear.

[regismo]

Because Kimi was in Q1, and his car was broken, he had nothing to win better a 16th place Tirana ! When Schumi can "win" the pôle wis this.

If you pretend not to know that Kimi had nothing to gain nothing, just to find an excuse to Schumacher it is PITIFUL, or if you believe seriously that he made a nasty movement like Schumi, YOU are IDIOT.

Schumi it's the biggest cheader of f1 history, he was young, he rest older. When a fruit is rotten, it stays.

[estevet]

he is such a bad loser...