Moog Guitar Sustainer System In Reverse

[chromefree]

I'm hearing an awful lot of hot air about what the instrument can do, rather than hearing what it can do...

[crazychimp321]

if u have some good money and u buy the e1 version which is 3000 dollarrs i'd say it's worth it.

[SgtThump]

I think that's very cool myself.

[danieldangerously]

i stopped reading anything jondeth had to say after he revealed he owns a Crate head.

[Touch2MuchUSA]

I'm sorry, folks, but I'm gonna have to agree with JonDeth on this one. This guitar appears to be breaking new ground only in it's over-pricedness. Besides the string-dampening sound (which sounds like crap and I can do for free with my palm), I can produce ANY of these sounds with my $500 Jackson DK2S. Add a couple cheap pedals (say a Digitech whammy) and I can do even more. I'm sure it's nice to look at and everything but did you say $6000??!!

[thehasslessydney]

@Touch2MuchUSA i thought it was three and a half, also, poo bum diddy whee wee. your jackson dk2s sounds like poop. this guitar is wicked cool.

[OthelloNC]

@Touch2MuchUSA post a video of you and your jackson producing limitless sustain with no pedals and we will believe you.

[SunshineGoth]

it sounds like Devin Townsend. sweet

[Jeromy2]

what would that sound like with metal tones?

[tragictravisty]

the reason they can give and take sustain with the same system is that its most likely magnetic oscillation mimicking the pitch of the string. when they reverse the phase of the oscillation, when the string goes one way, the magnet pulls it the other way - result=silence

[shineon1967]

brilliant guitar but i can see it getting over used on records

[mdlupar]

Matching shirts...that's not gay.

[jasondaniello]

We're just friends, I swear.

[influenzaa]

They're both Moog t shirts. So its a corporate image thing.

[aaronprice]

I agree the R and D costs of this axe made it even more expensive than i imagined.

[guysapire]

can you make it sound like a normal electric guitar?

[MaXaNoMaLoUs]

HOW MUCH??? i want one, i think Holdsworth should have 10

[watkinscopicat]

amazing instrument.

[Blacky2000x]

sounds like a pretty awesome system , gotta get one of those guitars sometime

[Limbiclesion]

I bought two of these because I liked there colour. I dont play guitar

[captainangelica]

holy shit why the fuck would u do that? all u have to do is go to home depo and find paint that color. They match ANYTHING

[Limbiclesion]

I was joshing they are fine expressive instruments ( but I do like the colour range). I could afford it at this time so I did it so that I could jam with any guitarits who might visit my studio.

Best Limbic

[laziruss]

you know, these are probably made for 500 dollars in a factory assembly line. moog makes SO MUCH profit out of these for $6495..

[JonDeth]

Laziruss you said it! I can't see how they justify the selling price but, they probably won't sell many is why. It's just a sustainer kit, a piezo pickup and a modulation circuit balled into one circuit. About 20 bucks if you're a decent I.C. tinkerer. I know of a way to take it a couple steps further for a full on synth but I'm biting my lip. Still a very cool instrument.

[cecinestpasunepipe]

With all due respect, you really don't know what's inside this instrument. Over 3,000 (three thousand) discrete transistors in a truly sophisticated circuit, including six independent Moog ladder filters... special pickups handmade in the Moog shop... no "sustainer kit" in the world comes close.

As for being made on a factory assembly line, the factory is about 20 folks in North Carolina, where about 3 ppl put 40+ hours each into building each guitar. That's the truth of it...

[JonDeth]

Buddy if they managed to fit a true 3,000 transistors in there, I'm Theodore Roosevelt! Even on microboard the circuit would need to be easily the size of the entire body to hold 3,000 transistors. I'm skilled enough technically to know you're full of hot air. Further more, using that number of transistors makes not one bit of sense-it wouldn't even require that many transistors to have turned the instrument into an analog synth and it would be FAR easier to go digital be that the case.

[JonDeth]

further more, it's not really even a synth guitar as marketed. It's just a sustainer with different sustain modes, the volume swell and mute circuit often referred to as the violin effect and moog ladder filter. Your gamble was that I'm stupid but you bet wrong. 3,000 transistors?? The moog ladder filter is around 2 dozen including those in the op amps and the most sophisticated of circuit stages in the unit. It's compiled a half dozen popular circuits man, that's all. 3,000 transistors my butt

[federmic]

Ok to set the record straight, there are 3000 different COMPONENTS, mounted on six circuit boards inside of the guitar. They take up about half of the inside of the body. Also, the circuitry is 100% analog, which to guitar purists equals sonic gold. Its also much more complicated than a synth or sustainer, the pickups in the Moog physically vibrate the strings, (which can be felt by the guitarist)

[JonDeth]

In another decade or two, digital will have all but eliminated solid state and tube circuitry. I know a lot about the sustain circuit. It's a resonation coil wired to an amplifier board in the guitar which creates a feedback loop. This secondary coil is layered onto the guitar's pickup coil thus vibrating the string-it's basically working as a small speaker built into the pickup. Lots of DIY guys build them as I'm sure I will myself someday soon. It's not rocket science dude.

[federmic]

Many artists prefer the now arcane analog technolgy to digital tech (Jack White and Rich Robinson come to mind). It just has a more natural and ambient sound. I'm a big believer in tube amp superiority myself. What you say actually has me interested now. Are those systems capable of muting the guitar, like the moog? (Reversing the polarity on the coil maybe?)

[JonDeth]

Currently, your typical 24/96 digital conversion rate with 24 bit effects processing can't be differentiated from analog by anyone if they're blindfolded and given sound samples. In aspects of parameter control, digital is far superior.A tiny digital circuit can also replace a MASSIVE analog. The reason analog stomp boxes are favored is due to the sound contouring you get from say using polyester caps vs mylar or oil and paper. Any pro has their pedals built custom or custom modified by a tech.

[Voltor07]

Digital is superior for parameter control?  That's funny...I usually experience a lag in digital pitch and modulation wheels. Also, listen to a digitally controlled Dave Smith Prophet 08 then listen to a Moog Little Phatty, and tell me that the DSI sounds better. It doesn't.

[JonDeth]

Digital processing offers far greater control over effect parameters, absolute fact. The time and constructing requirements involved in creating analog effects with such manipulation isn't cost effective. It increases circuit size and production cost beyond what the masses are willing to pay or can even afford. The muting effect traditionally works off voltage/volume decay, been around 40 years or so. Pure analog for distortion, digital for modulation and time based effects, it's that simple.

[JonDeth]

Digital is slowly taking over and in another 10 years, tube and solid state technology will be the muts of the industry and digital the thoroughbred. Currently many digital products running conversion rates of 24/96 are virtually interchangeable with tube and solid state sonic quality as well as response and feel. Tube is actually inferior on a sonic level but, all that voltage driving the signal along with physical compression and an excess of chimey harmonic distortion is favored by most.

[Voltor07]

Hey genius...you truly amaze me...how does the guitar mute the strings? You can FEEL the strings being muted when you play it. And guess what? Analog is making a comeback. Analog will NEVER be replaced. Digital was big in the '80's but where's that technology now? I'll tell you. In the garbage where it belongs! Nothing beats the warmth of analog, which is why tube amps and thirty year old synth prices are at premium levels. So quit wasting my oxygen.

[JonDeth]

lmao. Digital electronics make it possible for you to type your message and watch videos on the internet. Digital is the wave of the future and will eliminate analog electronics in the long term. Where is it now?? It's outselling analog devices 1000:1, that's where. $100 can buy something like a Zoom G2 or a couple stomp boxes, the digital Zoom is BY FAR the better investment. I prefer analog distortion but, an analog overdrive really works well driving a digital distortion. You're a moron.

[Voltor07]

Very good. Now then, you STILL have not answered the question. I never said ANYTHING about digital computers, TV's, watches, etc. I was referring to AUDIO SYNTHESIS electronics. You are SO gung-ho about making fans of analog audio look stupid, (good luck with that, electronics is a hobby of mine, too) that you are avoiding the question. How does the Moog Guitar MUTE THE STRINGS if you're so smart.

[JonDeth]

No, you're doing a really good job of making yourself look stupid. I am 100% analog when it comes to distortion and amplification. Time based/modulation effects however have proven to perform better when digital-really no contest there. My spring reverb in my Crate head is virtually identical to the digital reverb on it's modernized clone I also own. The mute is likely just a result of a volume threshold controlled circuit. Once volume reaches a certain level of decay, it mutes/releases it.

[IvanCU]

You should really read about how the Moog guitar works. You're complete wrong with the fundamentals of how it accomplishes sustain and muting.

[JonDeth]

Dude piss off already, you're wrong. It's nothing more than a feedback loop created by what is nothing more than a coil, magnet and amplifier-essentially a speaker pointed at the strings. I'm currently building a sustainer and they're relatively simple devices. This isn't anything new, the muting is a standard sustainer effect as well. Check my page dumb ass, I invented an analog trumpet/horn synth. I know a lot more than you seem to believe.

[JonDeth]

It's been around a very long time, it's known as the violin effect. It's working off a muting effect controlled by volume, hit a string and it releases the signal once it sustains loud enough. As the volume decays, it mutes it out once it drops below the threshold. It's either volume or voltage controlled, nothing all that complex but a very cool effect. I know quite a bit. Analog synth sounds are a result of extremely hard clipping and very high gain and high decibal bandpass filtering. Next!

[Voltor07]

I believe the word you are looking for is decibel. Is it really necessary to insult everyone who doesn't share your point of view?

[JonDeth]

You started it. I simply countered a lot of incorrect opinions with facts. It's a very sophisticated and expensive piece of equipment, I just agreed with another poster and know it could sell for half the price they're asking and would move a LOT more units at that cost. I also know it could be recreated by the common gearhead such as myself. Fact is, it's not even a synth because it's not synthesizing any specific instruments. It's a tricked out sustainer guitar and they've been around 4 years

[JonDeth]

and "decibal" was a mere typo. The point of my observations is this. I'm not impressed enough by the guitar to spend even 1/4 what they are asking. For a thousand dollars, I could save myself the work and BUY a custom neck through guitar from Asia, a sustainer kit and an on board effects circuit which would all total out at still less than a thousand bucks and do more than the mooger guitar. This guitar is for people that have money to burn and know the name will maintain it's resale value.

[Voltor07]

Finally something we both can agree on! ^_^ Also, no doubt yours would look better, too!

[IvanCU]

"Analog synth sounds are a result of extremely hard clipping and very high gain and high decibal bandpass filtering."

What?

I've been using modular analog synthesizers for over 30 years and have no idea how you came to that assumption.

[JonDeth]

Because I'm a guitarist, not a key and piano man. Some analog guitar synths simply turn the signal into a hard clipped square wave. Strong filtering, octave shifts, modulation etc.-I know what an oscillator does. Also, a true synth is SYNTHESIZING the sound of other instruments, something a lot of so called synths don't actually do. Thus making your comment fruitless since true instrument synths are generally digital. Just look up the definition of the word, it's a distorted definition.

[IvanCU]

Who said anything about keyboards?  I'm talking about a modular analog synthesizer. And the majority of my new synthesizers are analog as well. Not sure what you're even talking about when you use the term "synthesizing". It may or may not deal with recreating the sound of other instruments.

[JonDeth]

So in other words you're not a musician, you're one of those goofballs using a wave form generator playing with dials and switches.

Look up the definition of the word synthesize, if you still want to embarrass yourself by making this argument, go right ahead.

[IvanCU]

You make a lot of assumptions about people and their knowledge. And you could really work on your people skills as well.

[JonDeth]

Go fuck your mother suck fagot, like that any better?? I stated my opinion in a very civil manner, you along with the other children began running your mouths and attacking me. Clearly you have very serious mental issues when you can't even tolerate the opinions of others. You're a child and a coward hiding behind the internet wall. Go troll somewhere else for people to abuse dick lips. You should become a cop because clearly you're a nazi that believes in one mind, one vision etc.

[BubbaCoop]

Vinyl record sales are on the rise.

[federmic]

Even without the electric components, this guitar would easily cost 2 to 3000. They are hand made by Zion Guitar Technology, and use AAAAA quality flamed or quilted maple tops, an ebony fretboard, the best hardware money can buy, AND custom made bridges AND custom made strings AND custom made pickups and electronics. So maybe Moog only charges 2000 more than they should big deal right hah.

[JonDeth]

You're an idiot. They charge what someone who knows nothing about engineering and construction is willing to pay. A neck through guitar of those features and quality can be built for a couple hundred dollars if you're savvy. Do you realize Gibsobs, Fenders, Jacksons, Ibanez are all made by CNC machines? Hand made, CNC made, doesn't really matter these days because no one can tell the difference. Truth is, CNC does a MUCH better job with elaborate artwork and inlays. Good luck with your education

[cecinestpasunepipe]

JonDeth, you have no respect and you're talking out your posterior. I know what I'm talking about firsthand, whereas you are guessing. So don't make (wrong) guesses and then tell an insider that they don't know what they're talking about... unless you enjoy acting the fool.

[JonDeth]

LMAO! You're the moron fuck that thought there was 3,000 transistors in there..LMAO! I'm guessing about nothing. I've built a handful of circuits, designed a dozen of my own, have extensively modified and repaired countless guitars. There are better than myself no denying it but I know exactly what I'm talking about. They simply combined a half dozen popular circuits and put them in a high end guitar with all the trimmings. You know nothing first hand mr 3,000 transistor retard fuck.

[federmic]

Do YOU realize that that "Gibsobs" are actually handmade by experience luthiers? Ask any actual guitarist if they can tell the difference between a Gibson and an Epiphone and every one will be able to. You have no knowledge of guitars or engineering and have no right to call me an idiot buddy. And to let you know I happen to be majoring electrical engineering so I DO know what I'm talking about. Know what? Build me this guitar for under 1000 bucks annd I'll buy it from you in cash.

[JonDeth]

lmao-GIBSONS are made by CNC robots, haven't you ever watched a little show called How It's Made??? They've done an episode on Gibson, the only thing a human being actually assembles on a GIBSON is gluing the neck on. Otherwise even the painting is done by a CNC machine AKA robot. This is true of EVERY MAJOR NAME BRAND guitar out there as well as most the off brands that sell a ton of instruments each year. That Gibson you pay $1200 for is built for about 10% of the selling cost, pickups and all

[Radeo]

There are design costs too ya know...with 95% of goods it's not the physical manufacturing that is costly, it's time and effort into design, and then risk of sucess/failure.

[aiteoband]

you are assuming that research and development was completely free and that they don't have to recoup any money from that at all.

[Halobitt]

Michael Brook would love one of these. He's probably bought it already.

[cyyr1]

Aye,I wouldn't doubt it at all :)I just got a update and the navy mist colour is shipping within a few weeks.

[cyyr1]

I ordered one,a few weeks ago.The price did make me wince a lil bit,but as voltor said a Alembic set you back 20,000 clams or more.I priced a Fender hybred tele/strat that went for 5895.00

This instrument I hope will open new doors for me musically.

[andre666]

Awesome, I want one. $6495 though...

[Voltor07]

If it makes you feel any better, Alembic guitars can exceed $20,000 and don't contain Moog circuits.