@HarryPothead6009 All theories and known scientific fact cover maybe 3 or 4% of the actual universe. Can we say there is no God based on so little information?
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" (Romans 1:20)
Creation and all of its complex and organized workings and the fact that the universe had a beginning are 2 big and obvious pieces of evidence. No doubt you'll tell me that none of that is evidence; I hope you understand the difference between proof and evidence.
Saying there is no evidence that God exists is ignorant and takes a blind faith and a lot of arrogance. You can say there is no proof if you want, but there is plenty of evidence. I never connected your motives or morals with the existence of God; I connected them with your statements about His existence. You are obviously irrational in this exchange and I'm wondering what your goal is here.
That type of information carries no moral implications. Telling me God doesn't exist is a huge can of worms to open and carries such moral implications. If you told me 2+2=5, then I would have something to question and my questions could stem from many standpoints- your alledged philosophy, political views, even lack of knowledge. So, I wouldn't necessarily question the motives of such a person, but I DO question yours. YOU opened the can of worms, my friend.
Going back to Genesis 1, let me ask you, did God create darkness upon the earth or did His presence, "Light", reveal darkness simply by the nature of what "Light" is, causing the darkness to separate from that "Light" to be revealed for what it is, "darkness"? According to Gen 1, "without form and void" was present in the beginning, but scripture does not tell us that God created it, but clearly it was revealed when God spoke and said, Let there be Light. Do you disagree?
Darkness is the absence of light. However, we don't know what "null and void" looks like in that context. In fact, it is the only suitable language we have to introduce what God did at the beginning. Anything that exists which had a beginning was created by God ex nihilo- we cannot fathom all of what that means, but we can receive it as truth by faith AND reason.
Without Form:tohuw(Hebrew)=1)formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness a) formlessness 1) nothingness, empty space b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig)c) wasteland, wilderness d) place of chaos e) vanity
Void:bohuw(Hebrew)=emptiness, void, waste
Darkness:choshek(Hebrew)=darkness, obscurity
Deep:tĕhowm(Hebrew)=deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea, the grave
First of all, what do all of those things look like that you listed above? Second, You are misusing that scripture to prove your point. Darkness represents evil in that passage as light represents goodness. In Genesis 1 the darkness is not in God nor is it evil- it's the absence of light; that's why He said, "Let there be light.". Surely this is simple enough for you to understand, though I don't expect you'll receive it.
(In Genesis 1 the darkness is not in God nor is it evil- it's the absence of light; that's why He said, "Let there be light.")
That is exactly right. That is exactly why with the presence of that light, whom is Jesus, evil is revealed for what it is. That is exactly why Paul said this:
Romans 7:7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid! Nay, I would not have known sin, but through the law; for I would not have known lust, except that the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet."
2 Corinthians 6:14-15Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
Belial:bĕliya`al(Hebrew): worthlessness a) worthless, good for nothing, unprofitable, base fellow b) wicked c) ruin, destruction
It is clear by scripture that Jesus has no relationship with darkness, nor destruction.
Christ's relationship with darkness is that of opponent. He is not unaware of it nor is He uninvolved with it. I really don't see where you are trying to go with this. What's your point?
(I really don't see where you are trying to go with this. What's your point?)
Jeremiah 18
Ephesians 2:8-10For by grace are ye saved through faith,and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God--not by works, lest any man should boast.For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath beforehand ordained,that we should walk in them.
As scripture says, "faith cometh by the hearing of the Word". We are discussing how the vessel fit for destruction is formed.
bberchin, I appreciate your channel but do you believe God created mankind to send the great majority of them to Hell for His own pleasure ? Or to share His love, and to proof Satan creatures made of dust with free will can choose for God ? I know YHWH is a God of love, not one that pleasures Himself to see people fall into Hell.
I'm not saying at all you're a bad christian or something, I just don't agree with this doctrine and think it is dangerous for unbelievers to hear.
God takes no pleasure in sending people to hell, rather He takes pleasure in carrying out His perfect will and vindicating His holy character. This is biblical and all people must be made fully aware that hell is real and some are destined for it- this should not be hidden from unbelievers, but it should also not be thrown in people's faces. People need to understand and receive the gospel in its entirety.
That is not to say that one who doesn't believe in a "young earth" isn't a Christian, it just shows that they are being dishonest with what the Bible clearly teaches, since they start giving authority over to men instead of Word of God.
Evolution displaces God as the creator of the universe and instead gives him the role of a watch winder. Does God need evolution in order to create? Death and suffering before sin entered the world? God cursed man and the world because of Adam's sin.
"That is not to say that one who doesn't believe in a "young earth" isn't a Christian"- Yes! Yes! Excellent point! No one's theology, philosophy, or science will keep them from the kingdom of God. Only the rejection of the Son of God does that. However, the one who is in Christ has the ability and responsibility by the Spirit to continue to reform to the word of God throughout their lifetime.
Evolution is a slippery slop... when one believes the Bible cannot be trustworthy with what it clearly states in the first chapters of Genesis, then there's no telling where one will stop in "redefining" what the Bible is actually teaching us. Context is key and there's no way to render day as any other kind of day than a night/day cycle of 24 hours. Day can mean lots of things, but not in the context that Genesis gives us in the creation account.
That statement was a trap, thanks for taking the bait.
Now that we have established that no one can claim what is, and what is not a "true Christian" its all recognized as interpretation(one sect of Christianity being no more valid then another).
TAA(The Amazing Atheist) has always been good at addressing intellectual cheats(like VFX). Dont get me wrong, TAA is not perfect(I disagree with much of what he says) but I have not found him to be an outright liar(despite being arrogant, condescending and rude).
I'm not sure that Shawn is an intellectual cheat, but his theology leaves a lot to be desired. He gets bogged down in philosophy and his own logic and looses sight of what the Bible says.
I probably give VFX more credit then he deserves(I assume he is smart enough to know he is an intellectual cheat). Many creationists are smart enough to ignore the evidence(or put forth a faulty argument and think no one will know any better).
Evolution is a fact, one that is backed up by mountains of scientific evidence. Creationism(especally the young earth variety) has no evidence whatsoever for the claims they make. You should check out some of the videos made by one of your fellow Christians(DonExodus2).
I've seen my "fellow Christian" DonExodus2 and his videos. He may have studied a lot of science, but as a theologian he is dismal. You cannot reject biblical creation as he does and call yourself a Christian. I seriously question his profession of faith in light of his backwards study of truth. You (Christians) don't study science and then see if the Bible agrees- it's the other way around so that we don't rely on our own feeble minds, but on the truth and perfect mind of God.
I see, science is now a "backwards study of truth", its quite ironic that here you sit enjoying the benefits of this "backward truth". As for biblical creation, sorry but thats a load of rubbish(and consequently refutued by scientific evidence).
Perhaps you misunderstood- The Bible is the authority. If science does not agree with the truths of the Bible, then it is faulty science. Some science which disagrees with scripture may look right to men, but that is only an indication that our minds and motives are untrustworthy and must be questioned; not the mind of God, which is perfect. That is how the Christian thinks and should think. You may not agree with that thinking, but I wouldn't be a good Christian otherwise.
I think it is you who have misunderstood, science is the authority and the bible(having no evidence mind you) can only be accepted if it does not contradict scientific data. As for being a good Christian, many good Christians accept evolution and reason(thos who do not are creationists and they are not true Christians in my opinion).
Wait- who are you to say who is a true Christian? The creationist view is the biblical view. If you wish to make a case for evolution and say the Bible is full of bologna, fine, but you are no authority on who is and who isn't a Christian. If you read my message carefully you would see that I said in view of what the scriptures teach and my belief as a Christian, the Bible is the authority. Any biblical Christian believes that. If you want to believe science and men are the authority, fine.
(contiued)but doth also will that wich is evel. (5)The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only. (Fom the Westminster confession of faith)
(continued from last) being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.(4) When God converts a sinner, and translats
and translates him into a state of grace, He freeth him from natural bondage under sin; and, His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do wich is spritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption,he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good,
on free will: (1)God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty. that it is neither forced, nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to good or evel.(2) Man in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that wich was good, and well pleasing to God; but yet mutably, so that he might fall from it...(3)Man by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: as so, a a natural man,.
You lost me when you stated "man has no free will". That's not what the bible teaches....not even close.
sedg1 1 year ago
@sedg1 There's a distinction between what free will is and what it isn't .
Where does the bible teach the free will of man, as you understand free will?
enslaved2God 1 year ago
@HarryPothead6009 All theories and known scientific fact cover maybe 3 or 4% of the actual universe. Can we say there is no God based on so little information?
yarrw 1 year ago
Enjoyed your biblical explanations.
ChristianTULIP 2 years ago
So, God made atheists to be atheists.
zarkoff45 2 years ago
@zarkoff45 No, God didn't make atheists to be atheists.
Man hates God by his sinful nature. That isn't God's fault.
enslaved2God 1 year ago
@HarryPothead6009 errrrrr i havent seen any evidence
pads1982 2 years ago
@HarryPothead6009 well theres a book that profisised the future that said 2+2=5, most of that book has come true
pads1982 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" (Romans 1:20)
EnderGate 3 years ago
amen, brother.
zkueker88 3 years ago
Oh come on now- if the big bang is what really happened then who is the banger? What caused it? There must be a cause for everything that exists.
bberchin 3 years ago
Creation and all of its complex and organized workings and the fact that the universe had a beginning are 2 big and obvious pieces of evidence. No doubt you'll tell me that none of that is evidence; I hope you understand the difference between proof and evidence.
bberchin 3 years ago
Saying there is no evidence that God exists is ignorant and takes a blind faith and a lot of arrogance. You can say there is no proof if you want, but there is plenty of evidence. I never connected your motives or morals with the existence of God; I connected them with your statements about His existence. You are obviously irrational in this exchange and I'm wondering what your goal is here.
bberchin 3 years ago
That type of information carries no moral implications. Telling me God doesn't exist is a huge can of worms to open and carries such moral implications. If you told me 2+2=5, then I would have something to question and my questions could stem from many standpoints- your alledged philosophy, political views, even lack of knowledge. So, I wouldn't necessarily question the motives of such a person, but I DO question yours. YOU opened the can of worms, my friend.
bberchin 3 years ago
...and you feel the need to tell me this because...
bberchin 3 years ago
Thank you- you're the first one to ever tell me that! I never thought of that; maybe you're right!
bberchin 3 years ago
Going back to Genesis 1, let me ask you, did God create darkness upon the earth or did His presence, "Light", reveal darkness simply by the nature of what "Light" is, causing the darkness to separate from that "Light" to be revealed for what it is, "darkness"? According to Gen 1, "without form and void" was present in the beginning, but scripture does not tell us that God created it, but clearly it was revealed when God spoke and said, Let there be Light. Do you disagree?
AllForYeshua 3 years ago
Darkness is the absence of light. However, we don't know what "null and void" looks like in that context. In fact, it is the only suitable language we have to introduce what God did at the beginning. Anything that exists which had a beginning was created by God ex nihilo- we cannot fathom all of what that means, but we can receive it as truth by faith AND reason.
bberchin 3 years ago
Without Form:tohuw(Hebrew)=1)formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness a) formlessness 1) nothingness, empty space b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig)c) wasteland, wilderness d) place of chaos e) vanity
Void:bohuw(Hebrew)=emptiness, void, waste
Darkness:choshek(Hebrew)=darkness, obscurity
Deep:tĕhowm(Hebrew)=deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea, the grave
Do you really want to attribute the above to God?
"And in Him there is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:5
AllForYeshua 3 years ago
First of all, what do all of those things look like that you listed above? Second, You are misusing that scripture to prove your point. Darkness represents evil in that passage as light represents goodness. In Genesis 1 the darkness is not in God nor is it evil- it's the absence of light; that's why He said, "Let there be light.". Surely this is simple enough for you to understand, though I don't expect you'll receive it.
bberchin 3 years ago
(In Genesis 1 the darkness is not in God nor is it evil- it's the absence of light; that's why He said, "Let there be light.")
That is exactly right. That is exactly why with the presence of that light, whom is Jesus, evil is revealed for what it is. That is exactly why Paul said this:
Romans 7:7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid! Nay, I would not have known sin, but through the law; for I would not have known lust, except that the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet."
AllForYeshua 3 years ago
2 Corinthians 6:14-15Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
Belial:bĕliya`al(Hebrew): worthlessness a) worthless, good for nothing, unprofitable, base fellow b) wicked c) ruin, destruction
It is clear by scripture that Jesus has no relationship with darkness, nor destruction.
AllForYeshua 3 years ago
Christ's relationship with darkness is that of opponent. He is not unaware of it nor is He uninvolved with it. I really don't see where you are trying to go with this. What's your point?
bberchin 3 years ago
(I really don't see where you are trying to go with this. What's your point?)
Jeremiah 18
Ephesians 2:8-10For by grace are ye saved through faith,and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God--not by works, lest any man should boast.For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath beforehand ordained,that we should walk in them.
As scripture says, "faith cometh by the hearing of the Word". We are discussing how the vessel fit for destruction is formed.
AllForYeshua 3 years ago
bberchin, I appreciate your channel but do you believe God created mankind to send the great majority of them to Hell for His own pleasure ? Or to share His love, and to proof Satan creatures made of dust with free will can choose for God ? I know YHWH is a God of love, not one that pleasures Himself to see people fall into Hell.
I'm not saying at all you're a bad christian or something, I just don't agree with this doctrine and think it is dangerous for unbelievers to hear.
Godbless
Tim
Complex1989 3 years ago
God takes no pleasure in sending people to hell, rather He takes pleasure in carrying out His perfect will and vindicating His holy character. This is biblical and all people must be made fully aware that hell is real and some are destined for it- this should not be hidden from unbelievers, but it should also not be thrown in people's faces. People need to understand and receive the gospel in its entirety.
bberchin 3 years ago
Thank you for posting this.
God bless you!
6qrents 3 years ago
"It's more like, 'which fossils am I NOT looking at."
Do you know anything in this area?
..should be FALLING over transitional forms."
Why, do you even know what it takes for a bone to fossilize?
...have come up with are a handful of highly controversial...fossils."
There are many and the only controversy is from christians.
..many of which have been proven to be frauds."
Only a few, but even those were proven frauds by the scientific community.
crazypills2 3 years ago
"Don't you mean paleontologist?"
Yes, thanks, that's an important catch.
Now which fossils are you looking at again?
crazypills2 3 years ago
"Haha. You must be looking at an ENTIRELY different fossil record than I am." ATLpirate
Which one are you looking at? Are you a biologist? I'm curious since your statement was so emphatic.
crazypills2 3 years ago
That is not to say that one who doesn't believe in a "young earth" isn't a Christian, it just shows that they are being dishonest with what the Bible clearly teaches, since they start giving authority over to men instead of Word of God.
Evolution displaces God as the creator of the universe and instead gives him the role of a watch winder. Does God need evolution in order to create? Death and suffering before sin entered the world? God cursed man and the world because of Adam's sin.
Raada77 3 years ago
"That is not to say that one who doesn't believe in a "young earth" isn't a Christian"- Yes! Yes! Excellent point! No one's theology, philosophy, or science will keep them from the kingdom of God. Only the rejection of the Son of God does that. However, the one who is in Christ has the ability and responsibility by the Spirit to continue to reform to the word of God throughout their lifetime.
bberchin 3 years ago
Evolution is a slippery slop... when one believes the Bible cannot be trustworthy with what it clearly states in the first chapters of Genesis, then there's no telling where one will stop in "redefining" what the Bible is actually teaching us. Context is key and there's no way to render day as any other kind of day than a night/day cycle of 24 hours. Day can mean lots of things, but not in the context that Genesis gives us in the creation account.
Raada77 3 years ago
yowm- Hebrew for 24-hour period. Thank you, Raada77.
bberchin 3 years ago
That statement was a trap, thanks for taking the bait.
Now that we have established that no one can claim what is, and what is not a "true Christian" its all recognized as interpretation(one sect of Christianity being no more valid then another).
stagism 3 years ago
TAA(The Amazing Atheist) has always been good at addressing intellectual cheats(like VFX). Dont get me wrong, TAA is not perfect(I disagree with much of what he says) but I have not found him to be an outright liar(despite being arrogant, condescending and rude).
stagism 3 years ago
I'm not sure that Shawn is an intellectual cheat, but his theology leaves a lot to be desired. He gets bogged down in philosophy and his own logic and looses sight of what the Bible says.
bberchin 3 years ago
I probably give VFX more credit then he deserves(I assume he is smart enough to know he is an intellectual cheat). Many creationists are smart enough to ignore the evidence(or put forth a faulty argument and think no one will know any better).
stagism 3 years ago
"Many creationists are smart enough to ignore the evidence"- I could say the same about Evolutionists.
bberchin 3 years ago
As a well known intellectual once said:
"We have the fossils so we win"
Evolution is a fact, one that is backed up by mountains of scientific evidence. Creationism(especally the young earth variety) has no evidence whatsoever for the claims they make. You should check out some of the videos made by one of your fellow Christians(DonExodus2).
stagism 3 years ago
I've seen my "fellow Christian" DonExodus2 and his videos. He may have studied a lot of science, but as a theologian he is dismal. You cannot reject biblical creation as he does and call yourself a Christian. I seriously question his profession of faith in light of his backwards study of truth. You (Christians) don't study science and then see if the Bible agrees- it's the other way around so that we don't rely on our own feeble minds, but on the truth and perfect mind of God.
bberchin 3 years ago
I see, science is now a "backwards study of truth", its quite ironic that here you sit enjoying the benefits of this "backward truth". As for biblical creation, sorry but thats a load of rubbish(and consequently refutued by scientific evidence).
stagism 3 years ago
Perhaps you misunderstood- The Bible is the authority. If science does not agree with the truths of the Bible, then it is faulty science. Some science which disagrees with scripture may look right to men, but that is only an indication that our minds and motives are untrustworthy and must be questioned; not the mind of God, which is perfect. That is how the Christian thinks and should think. You may not agree with that thinking, but I wouldn't be a good Christian otherwise.
bberchin 3 years ago
I think it is you who have misunderstood, science is the authority and the bible(having no evidence mind you) can only be accepted if it does not contradict scientific data. As for being a good Christian, many good Christians accept evolution and reason(thos who do not are creationists and they are not true Christians in my opinion).
stagism 3 years ago
Wait- who are you to say who is a true Christian? The creationist view is the biblical view. If you wish to make a case for evolution and say the Bible is full of bologna, fine, but you are no authority on who is and who isn't a Christian. If you read my message carefully you would see that I said in view of what the scriptures teach and my belief as a Christian, the Bible is the authority. Any biblical Christian believes that. If you want to believe science and men are the authority, fine.
bberchin 3 years ago
Well said Nick...
Blaze25z 3 years ago
Yes, Nick, that's exactly it. Again, you've worded so well the point I'm trying to make. Thank you, brother.
bberchin 3 years ago
(contiued)but doth also will that wich is evel. (5)The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only. (Fom the Westminster confession of faith)
DeoOpt 3 years ago 2
Thank you, DeoOpt. That certainly clarifies what I'm trying to say- this is a difficult issue, but fundamental to our view of God and of salvation.
bberchin 3 years ago
(continued from last) being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.(4) When God converts a sinner, and translats
and translates him into a state of grace, He freeth him from natural bondage under sin; and, His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do wich is spritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption,he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good,
DeoOpt 3 years ago 2
on free will: (1)God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty. that it is neither forced, nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to good or evel.(2) Man in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that wich was good, and well pleasing to God; but yet mutably, so that he might fall from it...(3)Man by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: as so, a a natural man,.
DeoOpt 3 years ago 2