We all need to go back in time and learn what is real art and real music and what manners are, because we're all heading in a very wrong direction. Thank goodness for videos like these to remind us what is real and what's original
Is the part with John Cage for real??? I mean come on. 4 minutes of not doing anything? Well by that logic I'm the greatest composer in the world, I can have the most interesting and intelligent conversation just because I can do it so much better at not talking or doing anything else. And the part with the museums...priceless. What do people consider art to be? a pile of bricks? By 2030 a stick will be considered the greatest piece of art.
Bravo! And I do mean BRAVO! It truly is sad how in all of art, nowadays style is preferred to substance, obscurantism is preferred to subtlety and literal nothing is preferred to a meaningful something. In the art of film, I would give 2001: A Space Odyssey as the prime example of this. It is a "film" devoid of content or coherence and yet it is every critics darling. But should a truly great film with a strong narrative be made, then it will be accused of being crowd-pleasing and shallow.
What do you think of Steve Reich? I suppose he is a composer who makes music that you could consider to be "mathematical", but I find it more emotionally relevant than the music of composers such as Mozart or Beethoven.
@makingofasoul If you find tuneless hand clapping and pieces of wood banging together more emotionally relevant than Mozart or Beethoven then I think there is something extremely warped in your emotional make-up. Or maybe you're just another pretentious jerk.
@OldGrumpyGuy Sure, you can dismiss Reich as clapping and banging, but then I think you're missing the point. By the way, I'm listening to an album of Olivier Messiaen's; it's one of the most enjoyable classical albums I've heard. So if being pretentious means enjoying something other than what you deem to be appropriate, then I suppose I'm just pretentious. Thought I'd rather be pretentious than a stubborn bigot.
@OldGrumpyGuy I'll leave that for you to discover, though I doubt you will. You need to give Reich and other modern classical composers a chance; just as I gave Mozart and Beethoven, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, and John Coltrane and Miles Davis a chance (though I found them all incredibly boring in contrast to what I prefer to listen to).
Well, I'm a teenager and grew up listening to classical music in the car and taking music lessons. But I don't have anything against pop music. I'm content listening to either one. I do enjoy literature and nonfiction, but that doesn't mean I can't get along with Eragon or Harry Potter. I do agree that today's artists with their fancy tricks cover up the artists that have real talent, but all I've got to say for now is: Things change. I'm content.
I didn't have room in my other comments to say "thanks", so here it is. I more or less agree with your assessment, based on your rubric of "greatness". If I placed less emphasis on originality or historical impact, I'd find a way to slip Brahms ahead of Vivaldi, and it sure is hard to leave Chopin out, even if he almost exclusively composed for piano, but what the heck. It was a fun listen.
One also sees this battle between academics and scientists obsessed with mental models and mechanistic paradigms and those committed to cultivating personal "subjective" feeling-sensitivity in every realm of life, from the arts to psychotherapy to meditation. The elite dogmatically assert reality is only physical and subjective life ONLY a "brain process", yet many others literally FEEL a sublime psychic/spiritual/"conscious" depth to existence which "cannot be proven, but only recognized".
Agree 100%. In Eastern traditions this would be described as the "Ego" wanting to control whatever comes into its sphere. Compulsive neurotic projections create a feeling of control for "smart" people, but these are threatened by nonlinear or spontaneous "organic" processes, and, one could say, by unfettered "feeling" itself. Even Beethoven's emotional intensity disturbed many of the intellectual elites of his day.
ive been watching sooo many of your videos and i love you and your opinions. i relate sooo much. people think im pretentious but im not and its just because i like good things and good music and intelligence and the same people who call me that are people that love andy warhol and other talentless poser artists!! andy warhol is SOOOO annoying. he filmed the empire state building for 8 hours and called that filmmaking art!! and i love good film and good filmmakers and to have someone get fame
@ugottheblues (continued) from taking a six hour film of your friend sleeping, and considering it serious filmmaking, is a DISGRACE to great filmmakers such as billy wilder, martin scorcese, frank capra, alfred hitchcock and much more!! ugh andy warhol frustrates me so much.
Lloyd in particular was very much of the english school of Elgar, Stanford etc and is little known of in the modern world due to his use of tonal harmony and traditional structures, as well as writing melodies. He was completely ignored by the academic world of the 20th century that favoured Boulez and the serialists. Lennon has never been to my tastes, I find his work too self-indulgent but Pete Townsend is someone who I agree has produced some quality material.
@stewartvcm I am sure that, in the words of Gray's Elegy, "many a rose was born to blush unseen and waste its fragrance on the desert air" because of being isolated by the conspiracies of pretentious mutual masturbators in the world of academic fashion
If i listen to contemporary composers of my own choice it would be George Lloyd and Malcolm Arnold, both sadly passed on. Martin Ellerby and Peter Graham (I am english which may explain my choices somewhat) are tonal but that has kept them shoe-horned into the brass and wind band worlds for most of their careers. Adam Gorb is a tuneful writer but his big pieces leave me a little let-down. I would be intrigued to know your choice of living composer's, yourself excluded?
@stewartvcm Unfortunately I cannot think of a single LIVING composer that I really appreciate to any significant degree, unless you include some of the work that Paul McCartney did with John Lennon (I find his later work totally banal) and some of Pete Townsend's compositions (most notably his score for "Tommy"). also appreciate of the early stuff by the Rolling Stones. I am unfortunately not familiar with the composers you mention.
I can agree with you to some extent over Part but I find his music to be concerned with sound more than style, but I do find that some of his music is over-repetitive. I would be interested to know which living composers you find least banal? Although now dead I have loved George Lloyd and Malcolm Arnold's works for many years, biased as I maybe being English (I hate being called British, i respect and admire the various celtic nations but i have my own national history as well!)
I totally agree, that the arts are led by what we see, hear etc and speaks to us personally. The serialist stuff has it's place in academia and has it's place as a form of expression, but as part of the composers toolbox. Modern music is slowly coming back to tonality. Karl Jenkins and Arvo Part write in more tonal veins now, and 'pop' music is always tonal. I once wanted to carve myself an academic position in that field but no longer. I have seen the light!
@stewartvcm Arvo Part is at least a little less banal than John Adams and some of the other serialists, but I stiull think he is governed more by stylistic considerations rather than organic substance
@OldGrumpyGuy If i listen to contemporary composers of my own choice it would be George Lloyd and Malcolm Arnold, both sadly passed on. Martin Ellerby and Peter Graham (I am english which may explain my choices somewhat) are tonal but that has kept them shoe-horned into the brass and wind band worlds for most of their careers. Adam Gorb is a tuneful writer but his big pieces leave me a little let-down. I would be intrigued to know your choice of living composer's, yourself excluded?
@OldGrumpyGuy If i listen to contemporary composers of my own choice it would be George Lloyd and Malcolm Arnold, both sadly passed on. Martin Ellerby and Peter Graham (I am english which may explain my choices somewhat) are tonal but that has kept them shoe-horned into the brass and wind band worlds for most of their careers. Adam Gorb is a tuneful writer but his big pieces leave me a little let-down. I would be intrigued to know your choice of living composer's, yourself excluded?
I agree with you OldGrumpyGuy. The creation of artistic material (including music) shouldn't be bogged down with theories and mathematics. It's art. You'd think that anybody would understand that, but apparently the cultural fascists don't.
@CheekyVimto08 Thanks. I have actually written a play on the subject, called "The Lady of Shalott", after the narrative poem by Tennyson (I will be doing a Youtube video reading of the poem shortly)
@OldGrumpyGuy I'll subscribe to you. I really tried to grasp the appeal of atonality but failed. I think it can occasionally be used to add colour. Shostakovich sometimes had atonal passages but his use of atonality was always very purposeful. It's nice to find someone who feels the way I do about it.
@CheekyVimto08 Thanks for subscrbing. You are absolutely right about the judicious use of atona music. It has its place as part of the canvas of musical expression but to be a slave to atonality is just ridiculous
Well said. I'm definitely joining the revolution. Though you do make a few generalizations I take issue with. Like Messaien, for example. Sure some of his stuff's awfully 'progressive' but I don't think he was (like so many composers) an academic snob masquarading as an artist. The Turangalila symphony is an old favorite of mine. But then, I'm a pretty well educated (though self-taught) musician, so maybe I've been duped into to seeing human and emotional clothes on the nude academician.
Also, your observation about how many acedemics then and now have adopted some of the behavorial elitism similiar to the priesthood of the Middle Ages was spot on. For example, If you can speak a common language that's more accessible to the public, then do so for god's sake. It is rather sad and cruelly ironic I think that there are many academics and scientists nowadays that in a sense have become as close minded, elitist and oppressive as the religious figures that once opposed them.
I'm afraid I must agree with most of your assessments. I see what is called by many to be works of "modern art" nowadays and wonder just what the hell they drew their inspiration from? Mars??
I wish I was joking but a lot of "art" I see nowadays doesn't even seem to have a human feel to it, if that makes any sense at all. It just feels very inhuman, , linear and overall depressing.
And I'm happy to see that I'm not the only who thinks that Andy Warhol's definition of "art" just sucks.
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at least this mess of a man is at the end of his life so we wont have to see all this gayness.
how much does this gay guy bench press? How fast can this fool run ? these are things men do. Men dont tootie fruit around flaunting gayness all around. You should take down these videos before kids see them and think this is the way to be
I agree with most of your points, save the bit about politics. At least here in the United States, politicians do not give themselves an air of "I-know-more-than-thou". If they did that, the media would call them "egg-heads" and "elitists". Rather, they put on airs of a different sort, airs of the "common man" or "average joe". Perhaps it is different in other parts of the world.
I'd like to post this video response to somewhat contradict your statement of the more theory-based composers. Its a beautyful kind composed by Theodor Adorno which learned from Alban Berg. Berg himself was influenced by Gustav Mahler and Arnold Schönberg.
Of course Adorno didn't reaches the heights of the top ten composers you posted, but I think its a certainly enjoyable piece of music, even without PhD.
Very nice commentary. Though I'm not a great artist or connoisseur of high class, I have to say that I'm in agreement with you. A cultures art is very much a reflection. We have trash art. I mean that both figuratively and literally. I can't look at these and truly understand the beauty, complexity, or emotions that drive them. I've always thought that maybe I'm just not "in the know" but now I believe that art is something that shouldn't take a PhD to understand.
At the risk of ignorance, I avoid most modern classical works in general. With some exception, it just doesn't connect with me. It could very well be that I haven't the musical chops to appreciate it but music, when you get down to it, must sound good or it isn't really music. All that dissonance, weird keys and irregular rhythm makes for a fiendishly difficult time playing as well. But I'm sure it sounds heavenly to those who composed it.
I don't know if anyone else has observed this but there seems to be a sense of ivory tower snobbishness with some involved in the "high arts"; who would rather spurn mainstream appeal if it means they get to keep their esotericism beyond the understanding of the hoi polloi. I'm probably painting with a broad brush here but I definitely get that vibe.
Good points, as always. What perplexed me about that John Cage 'piece' (I could have written that! ;) the most was that apparently some broadcasting agency was daft enough to film it. Probably public broadcasting.
It's very interesting to see your perspective of the music history and it's current schism, but how can any music move forward when creativity is marginalized by controlled society of digital and information age? During the height of classical music, entertainment was music, and music was dominated by elitist of the past. While I would welcome true musical talents, I think it would be very difficult to reconize any new talents.
Creativity is not marginalized by digital/information/technology etc. The internet has been the most powerful resource for music for me....don't throw knives at it.
I pray that my children should follow in John Cage's footsteps. May they record their debut album this instant so that I might be allowed to listen to the evening news summary in peace for once !
Your 10 seconds of silence composition was very moving. It brought tears to my eyes. Have you thought about publishing that work? You could make a fortune.
What idiot gave our POSITIVE comments about your silence a negative? Whoever did that, let me just say that you suck. Unless grumpy did it. You rock, grumpy.
I don't know teaberry, I'm a very loud metal guitarist and I enjoy and agree with OGG. Then again, I also enjoy playing classical pieces on my acoustic. As do most metal guitarists I know.
originality is frorwned upon by most of society as it goes against the status quo.i have fought this battle since starting to walk as i never followed the lock step as expected. keep up the good work.5*
I am going to be doing a series on my favorite authors, Kierkeguardian, but I will not be ranking them as I did with the composers. However, I might be puncturing a few literary balloons along the way.
Thank goodness, I thought I was neuro-musically impaired... Thanks, quite young grumpy guy.
Unfortunately those kinds of self-flatters exist in every corner of the sphere we're on, living gods of words, notes, stamps, flies, whatever it takes to be taller or blonder or louder than the other guy.
Throughout history, the Royals & Rullers decided what was 'acceptable' and should be seen & heard...and everything else was shunned and ostracized.
We have the same thing going on now.
It is Cultural Fascism, indeed.
What is especially hypocritical about today's situation, is the way the Cultural Fascists wrap themselves in a cloak of false advocacy for 'Creative Freedom'.
I hope you are referring to the performances of Cage etc and not mine, IdleDrifter! I was rather proud of my ten minutes of silence (although I did wonder whether it might have been a little "busy"). But it was certainly far superior to that of Cage, don't you think?
OldGrumpyGuy, your performance of 10 Seconds of Quiet Intensity was really impressive, far superior to the noise of Cage and company who are more than deserving of flying fruits and vegetables in their general direction. I can't believe any musician would actual consider sitting through Cages 4.3 Minutes of Silence was too long and drawn out for its own good. It would tempting to cry out Kill the Wabbit! Kill the Wabbit! Kill the Wabbit! Kill the Wabbit! from anywhere in the Concert Hall.
Yes, modern music, not really my type of thing. It's to discordant and doesn't really have a tune! Not really the music I like. There's not much fantastic music on offer after the end of the romantic period. Hilarious video! I love it!
I'm pretty young, but through my entirety of my life I have listened to Classical; Mainly Baroque - Romantic (I think beyond that point it gets a bit sloppy) but it's very disappointing that the musical standards of that time aren't being upheld today by the musical community.
The music compositions were a great contrast of what I was introduced to you being. Talking about the decline of human interaction due to lack of class, education, common sense.... whatever you would like to call it.
Maybe I just never knew the other side of you. Forgive my ignorance. ;)
In the pork package, the so called "Stimulus bill", that's in the Senate right now, the Democrats are choosing to give 50 million dollars to the National Endowment for the Arts! Hopefully this newly printed money will not be given to people of which you just spoke! God help us.
Nice video. Have you ever heard of the Ancient Solfeggio scale? It was the ancient music scale that was modified at some point or another by the church. However, it has been rediscovered by Dr. Joseph Puleo . The frequencies of the scale seem to be much more harmonious with the human body. They have found that 528hz repaired DNA in lab tests. The study of cymatics tells us that frequency has a direct effect on the physical makup of matter. Check out acoustic levitation too.
I think the point goes far beyond the world of fine art. As a traveling teacher in a blighted corner of the States I come across thousands of children who have no exposure to anything beyond the world of their neighborhood. Imagine their universe is limited to six city blocks. There are no recorders playing Mary Had a Little Lamb, no Shakespeare, no art classes -nothing. Just rap music, hell and death. What could be more important that rediscovering the humanities?
Sir, your scholarship and humor are appreciated. Please keep up the good work. In a perfect world, a publisher would find you and produce a series of educational DVDs for school use. Regards,
OGG thanks for reminding me of this. by the way who was the last composer you consider to be "Organic"?. So this syndrome led to very abstract complex and Nasty sounding "Classical" music we encounter in the 20th Century.
I know. I saw him awhile back as well. He's been sick and his voice is weak because of it. But we'll always have his music regardless. There are few around anymore that can replace him.
Great work! Its about time somebody shafted these phonies. I wonder how much of the new administrations arts handout will be going into the pockets of these creeps.
Sadly, you are completely right. This form of "Cultural Retardism" has pervaded all forms of the arts. I cannot begin to tell you how many inane "art" showings I had to go to when I was studying art and design in school. It is indeed time to go back to the naturalistic themes that has made human artistic achievement what it has been in the past. Wonderful insight.
We all need to go back in time and learn what is real art and real music and what manners are, because we're all heading in a very wrong direction. Thank goodness for videos like these to remind us what is real and what's original
cdelya3 3 months ago 2
Is the part with John Cage for real??? I mean come on. 4 minutes of not doing anything? Well by that logic I'm the greatest composer in the world, I can have the most interesting and intelligent conversation just because I can do it so much better at not talking or doing anything else. And the part with the museums...priceless. What do people consider art to be? a pile of bricks? By 2030 a stick will be considered the greatest piece of art.
cdelya3 3 months ago
@cdelya3 Yes it's for real. Sticks as a work of art? The Tate Gallery has already presented a pile of bricks as art.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 months ago
This man confronts Pitchfork with a quite powerful argument. May the spirit of Goethe and Nietzsche live on. Cheers!
EllensDegenerates 3 months ago
Bravo! And I do mean BRAVO! It truly is sad how in all of art, nowadays style is preferred to substance, obscurantism is preferred to subtlety and literal nothing is preferred to a meaningful something. In the art of film, I would give 2001: A Space Odyssey as the prime example of this. It is a "film" devoid of content or coherence and yet it is every critics darling. But should a truly great film with a strong narrative be made, then it will be accused of being crowd-pleasing and shallow.
ErnilEnNaur 3 months ago
What do you think of Steve Reich? I suppose he is a composer who makes music that you could consider to be "mathematical", but I find it more emotionally relevant than the music of composers such as Mozart or Beethoven.
makingofasoul 3 months ago
@makingofasoul If you find tuneless hand clapping and pieces of wood banging together more emotionally relevant than Mozart or Beethoven then I think there is something extremely warped in your emotional make-up. Or maybe you're just another pretentious jerk.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 months ago 2
@OldGrumpyGuy Sure, you can dismiss Reich as clapping and banging, but then I think you're missing the point. By the way, I'm listening to an album of Olivier Messiaen's; it's one of the most enjoyable classical albums I've heard. So if being pretentious means enjoying something other than what you deem to be appropriate, then I suppose I'm just pretentious. Thought I'd rather be pretentious than a stubborn bigot.
makingofasoul 3 months ago
@makingofasoul What point am I missing?
OldGrumpyGuy 3 months ago
@OldGrumpyGuy I'll leave that for you to discover, though I doubt you will. You need to give Reich and other modern classical composers a chance; just as I gave Mozart and Beethoven, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, and John Coltrane and Miles Davis a chance (though I found them all incredibly boring in contrast to what I prefer to listen to).
makingofasoul 2 months ago
@makingofasoul That's a cop-out.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 months ago
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@OldGrumpyGuy There's no point trying to explain it to you.
makingofasoul 2 months ago
Well, I'm a teenager and grew up listening to classical music in the car and taking music lessons. But I don't have anything against pop music. I'm content listening to either one. I do enjoy literature and nonfiction, but that doesn't mean I can't get along with Eragon or Harry Potter. I do agree that today's artists with their fancy tricks cover up the artists that have real talent, but all I've got to say for now is: Things change. I'm content.
coolkid6394 4 months ago
I didn't have room in my other comments to say "thanks", so here it is. I more or less agree with your assessment, based on your rubric of "greatness". If I placed less emphasis on originality or historical impact, I'd find a way to slip Brahms ahead of Vivaldi, and it sure is hard to leave Chopin out, even if he almost exclusively composed for piano, but what the heck. It was a fun listen.
KarlRKaiser 4 months ago
One also sees this battle between academics and scientists obsessed with mental models and mechanistic paradigms and those committed to cultivating personal "subjective" feeling-sensitivity in every realm of life, from the arts to psychotherapy to meditation. The elite dogmatically assert reality is only physical and subjective life ONLY a "brain process", yet many others literally FEEL a sublime psychic/spiritual/"conscious" depth to existence which "cannot be proven, but only recognized".
KarlRKaiser 4 months ago
@KarlRKaiser It is frightening how entrenched it is in the academic world
OldGrumpyGuy 4 months ago
Agree 100%. In Eastern traditions this would be described as the "Ego" wanting to control whatever comes into its sphere. Compulsive neurotic projections create a feeling of control for "smart" people, but these are threatened by nonlinear or spontaneous "organic" processes, and, one could say, by unfettered "feeling" itself. Even Beethoven's emotional intensity disturbed many of the intellectual elites of his day.
KarlRKaiser 4 months ago
I can't believe John Cage exists....
iluvatar003 9 months ago
@iluvatar003 Maybe John Cage is just a figment of his feverish imagination
OldGrumpyGuy 9 months ago
Do you play any instrument?
MrSnorlax22 10 months ago
@MrSnorlax22 yes, badly
OldGrumpyGuy 10 months ago
ive been watching sooo many of your videos and i love you and your opinions. i relate sooo much. people think im pretentious but im not and its just because i like good things and good music and intelligence and the same people who call me that are people that love andy warhol and other talentless poser artists!! andy warhol is SOOOO annoying. he filmed the empire state building for 8 hours and called that filmmaking art!! and i love good film and good filmmakers and to have someone get fame
ugottheblues 1 year ago
@ugottheblues (continued) from taking a six hour film of your friend sleeping, and considering it serious filmmaking, is a DISGRACE to great filmmakers such as billy wilder, martin scorcese, frank capra, alfred hitchcock and much more!! ugh andy warhol frustrates me so much.
ugottheblues 1 year ago
Pardon me, would you have any Grey Poupon?
rji 1 year ago
Lloyd in particular was very much of the english school of Elgar, Stanford etc and is little known of in the modern world due to his use of tonal harmony and traditional structures, as well as writing melodies. He was completely ignored by the academic world of the 20th century that favoured Boulez and the serialists. Lennon has never been to my tastes, I find his work too self-indulgent but Pete Townsend is someone who I agree has produced some quality material.
stewartvcm 1 year ago
@stewartvcm I am sure that, in the words of Gray's Elegy, "many a rose was born to blush unseen and waste its fragrance on the desert air" because of being isolated by the conspiracies of pretentious mutual masturbators in the world of academic fashion
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
If i listen to contemporary composers of my own choice it would be George Lloyd and Malcolm Arnold, both sadly passed on. Martin Ellerby and Peter Graham (I am english which may explain my choices somewhat) are tonal but that has kept them shoe-horned into the brass and wind band worlds for most of their careers. Adam Gorb is a tuneful writer but his big pieces leave me a little let-down. I would be intrigued to know your choice of living composer's, yourself excluded?
stewartvcm 1 year ago
@stewartvcm Unfortunately I cannot think of a single LIVING composer that I really appreciate to any significant degree, unless you include some of the work that Paul McCartney did with John Lennon (I find his later work totally banal) and some of Pete Townsend's compositions (most notably his score for "Tommy"). also appreciate of the early stuff by the Rolling Stones. I am unfortunately not familiar with the composers you mention.
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
I can agree with you to some extent over Part but I find his music to be concerned with sound more than style, but I do find that some of his music is over-repetitive. I would be interested to know which living composers you find least banal? Although now dead I have loved George Lloyd and Malcolm Arnold's works for many years, biased as I maybe being English (I hate being called British, i respect and admire the various celtic nations but i have my own national history as well!)
stewartvcm 1 year ago
I totally agree, that the arts are led by what we see, hear etc and speaks to us personally. The serialist stuff has it's place in academia and has it's place as a form of expression, but as part of the composers toolbox. Modern music is slowly coming back to tonality. Karl Jenkins and Arvo Part write in more tonal veins now, and 'pop' music is always tonal. I once wanted to carve myself an academic position in that field but no longer. I have seen the light!
Long live OGG!!!
stewartvcm 1 year ago
@stewartvcm Arvo Part is at least a little less banal than John Adams and some of the other serialists, but I stiull think he is governed more by stylistic considerations rather than organic substance
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
@OldGrumpyGuy If i listen to contemporary composers of my own choice it would be George Lloyd and Malcolm Arnold, both sadly passed on. Martin Ellerby and Peter Graham (I am english which may explain my choices somewhat) are tonal but that has kept them shoe-horned into the brass and wind band worlds for most of their careers. Adam Gorb is a tuneful writer but his big pieces leave me a little let-down. I would be intrigued to know your choice of living composer's, yourself excluded?
stewartvcm 1 year ago
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@OldGrumpyGuy If i listen to contemporary composers of my own choice it would be George Lloyd and Malcolm Arnold, both sadly passed on. Martin Ellerby and Peter Graham (I am english which may explain my choices somewhat) are tonal but that has kept them shoe-horned into the brass and wind band worlds for most of their careers. Adam Gorb is a tuneful writer but his big pieces leave me a little let-down. I would be intrigued to know your choice of living composer's, yourself excluded?
stewartvcm 1 year ago
I agree with you OldGrumpyGuy. The creation of artistic material (including music) shouldn't be bogged down with theories and mathematics. It's art. You'd think that anybody would understand that, but apparently the cultural fascists don't.
plusplusplusplusp 1 year ago
@plusplusplusplusp The problem is that their hidebound theories are what gives them their academic territory, power and influence.
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
I've missed the revolution! I've been waiting and I missed it! Is it too late to start marching to my own drum? :)
Nice commentary on pop culture and the dull norm.
thedamnedapostle 1 year ago
@thedamnedapostle It's never too late!
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
i know that was ten minutes but i'd like to hear more on the subject
CheekyVimto08 1 year ago
@CheekyVimto08 Thanks. I have actually written a play on the subject, called "The Lady of Shalott", after the narrative poem by Tennyson (I will be doing a Youtube video reading of the poem shortly)
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
@OldGrumpyGuy I'll subscribe to you. I really tried to grasp the appeal of atonality but failed. I think it can occasionally be used to add colour. Shostakovich sometimes had atonal passages but his use of atonality was always very purposeful. It's nice to find someone who feels the way I do about it.
CheekyVimto08 1 year ago
@CheekyVimto08 Thanks for subscrbing. You are absolutely right about the judicious use of atona music. It has its place as part of the canvas of musical expression but to be a slave to atonality is just ridiculous
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
Bravo, that was a silky smooth slide into sarcasm. I cannot deny your logic.
Namaste.
Pathogen82 1 year ago
i think i heard the first snatch in startrek series the 2nd guy just made you want to blow chunks the third guy was high on something poppy based
madmac451 1 year ago
Well said. I'm definitely joining the revolution. Though you do make a few generalizations I take issue with. Like Messaien, for example. Sure some of his stuff's awfully 'progressive' but I don't think he was (like so many composers) an academic snob masquarading as an artist. The Turangalila symphony is an old favorite of mine. But then, I'm a pretty well educated (though self-taught) musician, so maybe I've been duped into to seeing human and emotional clothes on the nude academician.
choralcomposerdude 2 years ago
Also, your observation about how many acedemics then and now have adopted some of the behavorial elitism similiar to the priesthood of the Middle Ages was spot on. For example, If you can speak a common language that's more accessible to the public, then do so for god's sake. It is rather sad and cruelly ironic I think that there are many academics and scientists nowadays that in a sense have become as close minded, elitist and oppressive as the religious figures that once opposed them.
Schone23666 2 years ago
Amen
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
I'm afraid I must agree with most of your assessments. I see what is called by many to be works of "modern art" nowadays and wonder just what the hell they drew their inspiration from? Mars??
I wish I was joking but a lot of "art" I see nowadays doesn't even seem to have a human feel to it, if that makes any sense at all. It just feels very inhuman, , linear and overall depressing.
And I'm happy to see that I'm not the only who thinks that Andy Warhol's definition of "art" just sucks.
Schone23666 2 years ago
The fashion police would say we are just too dumb or unsophisticated to get it - the tired old trick used by people of their ilk
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
I am a fisherman and
this is what I know.................
If you want to find the big fish
follow the food and there they stay........!
balemeout 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
at least this mess of a man is at the end of his life so we wont have to see all this gayness.
how much does this gay guy bench press? How fast can this fool run ? these are things men do. Men dont tootie fruit around flaunting gayness all around. You should take down these videos before kids see them and think this is the way to be
Enraged5150Juiced 2 years ago
Do you take lessons in being pointless and pathetic?
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
I don't think this gentleman exercises anything remotely reflecting "gayness." I think we all are better off leaving such things to fools like you.
cheatsatmonopoly 2 years ago 8
I agree with most of your points, save the bit about politics. At least here in the United States, politicians do not give themselves an air of "I-know-more-than-thou". If they did that, the media would call them "egg-heads" and "elitists". Rather, they put on airs of a different sort, airs of the "common man" or "average joe". Perhaps it is different in other parts of the world.
altosax1st 2 years ago
I'd like to post this video response to somewhat contradict your statement of the more theory-based composers. Its a beautyful kind composed by Theodor Adorno which learned from Alban Berg. Berg himself was influenced by Gustav Mahler and Arnold Schönberg.
Of course Adorno didn't reaches the heights of the top ten composers you posted, but I think its a certainly enjoyable piece of music, even without PhD.
Hochdorff 2 years ago
messiaen: thoroughly dissonant.
mortson978 2 years ago
...and pretentious
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
quite, also, I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks warhol is a hack.
mortson978 2 years ago 2
Very nice commentary. Though I'm not a great artist or connoisseur of high class, I have to say that I'm in agreement with you. A cultures art is very much a reflection. We have trash art. I mean that both figuratively and literally. I can't look at these and truly understand the beauty, complexity, or emotions that drive them. I've always thought that maybe I'm just not "in the know" but now I believe that art is something that shouldn't take a PhD to understand.
roboschnauzer 2 years ago
Art and music should not be something you need a PhD to appreciate and enjoy.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
I LOVE how you say "Academic Intelligencia" - as a thinking college student we are kindred spirits on this issue.
TalkerOne 3 years ago
Good to know
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Why don't the high priests says the same about films, I think that would help a lot.
detriplea 2 years ago
Some works of John Adams are beautiful (Eg. Grand Pianola, Christian Zeal, Meister Eckhardt).
They don't have the "intuition or organic" feeling of Mozart, but have the harmonic sensibility that was lost with Messiaen or Schoeberg.
apolyton1 3 years ago
Okay, you are probably the most intelligent person I've met in a long time I wish I could just open my mind and see things like you
indogo16 3 years ago
I'm not quite sure what to say to that except...thanks
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Thank God we live in a free land. What would we listen to without the free thinkers?
CaptainAhab789 3 years ago 8
LOL Bravo! Count me in for the revolution.
At the risk of ignorance, I avoid most modern classical works in general. With some exception, it just doesn't connect with me. It could very well be that I haven't the musical chops to appreciate it but music, when you get down to it, must sound good or it isn't really music. All that dissonance, weird keys and irregular rhythm makes for a fiendishly difficult time playing as well. But I'm sure it sounds heavenly to those who composed it.
killerecho 3 years ago
I don't know if anyone else has observed this but there seems to be a sense of ivory tower snobbishness with some involved in the "high arts"; who would rather spurn mainstream appeal if it means they get to keep their esotericism beyond the understanding of the hoi polloi. I'm probably painting with a broad brush here but I definitely get that vibe.
killerecho 3 years ago
I was also painting with a broad brush in this video, but I don't think that diminishes the validity of our perceptions.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Comment removed
killerecho 3 years ago
Good points, as always. What perplexed me about that John Cage 'piece' (I could have written that! ;) the most was that apparently some broadcasting agency was daft enough to film it. Probably public broadcasting.
PeterHaroldErikson 3 years ago
It was Channel Four, one of the independent stations.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Okay, my mistake. Did they try to prove they weren't all about smut and coarseness?
PeterHaroldErikson 3 years ago
It's very interesting to see your perspective of the music history and it's current schism, but how can any music move forward when creativity is marginalized by controlled society of digital and information age? During the height of classical music, entertainment was music, and music was dominated by elitist of the past. While I would welcome true musical talents, I think it would be very difficult to reconize any new talents.
dawnofdarken 3 years ago
Creativity is not marginalized by digital/information/technology etc. The internet has been the most powerful resource for music for me....don't throw knives at it.
PlatypusofCalifornia 3 years ago 2
great video. I agree with everything you say OGG
picktowngal 3 years ago
I pray that my children should follow in John Cage's footsteps. May they record their debut album this instant so that I might be allowed to listen to the evening news summary in peace for once !
paulreeve 3 years ago
I think most rappers should follow suit and learn the value of silence
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Your 10 seconds of silence composition was very moving. It brought tears to my eyes. Have you thought about publishing that work? You could make a fortune.
teaberryic 3 years ago
No, I haven't thought of publishing it yet, but I can send you the sheet music if you want.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
What idiot gave our POSITIVE comments about your silence a negative? Whoever did that, let me just say that you suck. Unless grumpy did it. You rock, grumpy.
futurama2506 3 years ago
Perhaps it was a very loud drummer from a heavy metal band .....
teaberryic 3 years ago
I don't know teaberry, I'm a very loud metal guitarist and I enjoy and agree with OGG. Then again, I also enjoy playing classical pieces on my acoustic. As do most metal guitarists I know.
DamienStreete 3 years ago
Your silence is way better than his. Good job.
futurama2506 3 years ago
grumpy
originality is frorwned upon by most of society as it goes against the status quo.i have fought this battle since starting to walk as i never followed the lock step as expected. keep up the good work.5*
buster81365 3 years ago
Profound. I am so glad that John Cage has been spoken out against.
By the way have you considered posting a series on the ten greatest literary artist?
Kierkeguardian 3 years ago
I am going to be doing a series on my favorite authors, Kierkeguardian, but I will not be ranking them as I did with the composers. However, I might be puncturing a few literary balloons along the way.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Great! I hope youll include Russian names this time...
But without "sticking needles" :)
ComradeJenny 3 years ago
Intresting.....So very true.
Maakasukage 3 years ago
Thank goodness, I thought I was neuro-musically impaired... Thanks, quite young grumpy guy.
Unfortunately those kinds of self-flatters exist in every corner of the sphere we're on, living gods of words, notes, stamps, flies, whatever it takes to be taller or blonder or louder than the other guy.
7elmig 3 years ago 2
You are sadly right 7elmig
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Hah!
Excellent, Grumpy.
And exactly so!
This is nothing new, as you alluded to.
Throughout history, the Royals & Rullers decided what was 'acceptable' and should be seen & heard...and everything else was shunned and ostracized.
We have the same thing going on now.
It is Cultural Fascism, indeed.
What is especially hypocritical about today's situation, is the way the Cultural Fascists wrap themselves in a cloak of false advocacy for 'Creative Freedom'.
SeekerNLife 3 years ago 2
exactly so
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
OldGrumpyGuy, wasn't there a time when carts of rotten fruit and vegetables were set on stand by for such ear-bleeding and mind numbing performances.
IdleDrifter 3 years ago
I hope you are referring to the performances of Cage etc and not mine, IdleDrifter! I was rather proud of my ten minutes of silence (although I did wonder whether it might have been a little "busy"). But it was certainly far superior to that of Cage, don't you think?
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
OldGrumpyGuy, your performance of 10 Seconds of Quiet Intensity was really impressive, far superior to the noise of Cage and company who are more than deserving of flying fruits and vegetables in their general direction. I can't believe any musician would actual consider sitting through Cages 4.3 Minutes of Silence was too long and drawn out for its own good. It would tempting to cry out Kill the Wabbit! Kill the Wabbit! Kill the Wabbit! Kill the Wabbit! from anywhere in the Concert Hall.
IdleDrifter 3 years ago
Thanks Idledrifter. I am relieved to hear that.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Yes, modern music, not really my type of thing. It's to discordant and doesn't really have a tune! Not really the music I like. There's not much fantastic music on offer after the end of the romantic period. Hilarious video! I love it!
earthatic 3 years ago
I'm pretty young, but through my entirety of my life I have listened to Classical; Mainly Baroque - Romantic (I think beyond that point it gets a bit sloppy) but it's very disappointing that the musical standards of that time aren't being upheld today by the musical community.
Zawadzke 3 years ago
Great insight.
Faved and subscribed to.
Zawadzke 3 years ago
Thanks Z.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
I suddenly felt a twinge of creativity.
No... Never mind. It passed.
Oh, well. It was nice while it lasted. In fact, I was momentarily intoxicated somewhat. Thanks! That was fun! : P
opchidexio 3 years ago
Was your twinge of creativity inspired by my brilliant and deeply thoughtful ten seconds of silence?
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
1:29 is perhaps one of your best metaphors! Bravo!
amadeus9man 3 years ago
The ECS was very evident during the elections
melissakresnauw 3 years ago
This is a really excellent analysis
rumplydumply 3 years ago
Good to have you back old man
bigun89 3 years ago
What do you mean bigun? I've never been away!
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
The music compositions were a great contrast of what I was introduced to you being. Talking about the decline of human interaction due to lack of class, education, common sense.... whatever you would like to call it.
Maybe I just never knew the other side of you. Forgive my ignorance. ;)
bigun89 3 years ago
LOL!! Your ten seconds was much more satisfying than Cage's Grumpy!
usgop 3 years ago
In the pork package, the so called "Stimulus bill", that's in the Senate right now, the Democrats are choosing to give 50 million dollars to the National Endowment for the Arts! Hopefully this newly printed money will not be given to people of which you just spoke! God help us.
manyleaves 3 years ago
Hopefully when this pork bill proves to be a failure, the non-existence of conservative support will be widely known by the public.
rhettrongun 3 years ago
I bet most of that $50 million dollars for the National Endowment of the Arts will be going to exactly the kind of people identified in this video.
gardnermarketer 3 years ago
No doubt.
manyleaves 3 years ago
It probably will. u.u
JohnElwayFan2 3 years ago
Really interesting! Fantastic video! 5 star. Thanks for posting!
earthatic 3 years ago
Great video. I really enjoyed it. Keep up the good work.
OGG, what's your take on the Louvre Pyramid? To me it seems somewhat out of place.
xleax 3 years ago
I'm not very impressed with the Louvre Pyamid, but there are a lot of examples of modern art that are much more pretentious
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Excellent video as usual, OldGrumpyGuy.
tylerjamesstephens 3 years ago
Great video! I agree with everything you say OGG.
winerrol1969 3 years ago
Nice video. Have you ever heard of the Ancient Solfeggio scale? It was the ancient music scale that was modified at some point or another by the church. However, it has been rediscovered by Dr. Joseph Puleo . The frequencies of the scale seem to be much more harmonious with the human body. They have found that 528hz repaired DNA in lab tests. The study of cymatics tells us that frequency has a direct effect on the physical makup of matter. Check out acoustic levitation too.
SimplyThinkDreams 3 years ago
interesting
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
i totally agree with your view of modern art. What happened to expressiveness in music?
Luckily this disease has not spread to literature and cinema; otherwise there would be a revolution started a long time ago!
alvinkuo777 3 years ago
Great show, OGG; looks like we are going to enjoy another fascinating series.
PS.; you left out Damien Hirst and his cow suspended in fomaldehide, to scare the pants of your viewers. Oh yes, I prefer silence to Lulu.
hertelf 3 years ago
Yes, glad you reminded me hertelf. That formaldahide cow was not only pretentious, it was downright disgusting.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
I think the point goes far beyond the world of fine art. As a traveling teacher in a blighted corner of the States I come across thousands of children who have no exposure to anything beyond the world of their neighborhood. Imagine their universe is limited to six city blocks. There are no recorders playing Mary Had a Little Lamb, no Shakespeare, no art classes -nothing. Just rap music, hell and death. What could be more important that rediscovering the humanities?
peoplematter1 3 years ago
Great comment peoplematter1
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Sir, your scholarship and humor are appreciated. Please keep up the good work. In a perfect world, a publisher would find you and produce a series of educational DVDs for school use. Regards,
peoplematter1 3 years ago
Thanks
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Shocking how it's all come to this...
blueshadowdude 3 years ago
Perhaps "Cultural Retardation?
peoplematter1 3 years ago
OGG thanks for reminding me of this. by the way who was the last composer you consider to be "Organic"?. So this syndrome led to very abstract complex and Nasty sounding "Classical" music we encounter in the 20th Century.
Coixxman 3 years ago
Prokofiev, Gershwin, Freddy Mercury, the Beatles are among some of the modern composers who spring to mind. I am sure there are many others.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Leonard Cohen, Simon & Garfunkel, Gordon Lightfoot... there are still a few thankfully.
blueshadowdude 3 years ago 2
I saw Gordon Lightfoot in concert this summer. Couldn't understand a word he said, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.
teaberryic 3 years ago
I know. I saw him awhile back as well. He's been sick and his voice is weak because of it. But we'll always have his music regardless. There are few around anymore that can replace him.
blueshadowdude 3 years ago
Yes OGG your ten seconds of silence is infinitely superior to that of John Cage. A brilliant work!
grutterby 3 years ago
Thanks grutterby. I'm glad somebody appreciated the sensitivity of my little contribution to the music world.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Great work! Its about time somebody shafted these phonies. I wonder how much of the new administrations arts handout will be going into the pockets of these creeps.
richardleigh7654 3 years ago
It is frightening that people can take 4.33 minutes of silence seriously as a musical work.
saturninewedge 3 years ago
Silence played in full orchestral version. That's original. The emperor has no clothes indeed.
peoplematter1 3 years ago
Sadly, you are completely right. This form of "Cultural Retardism" has pervaded all forms of the arts. I cannot begin to tell you how many inane "art" showings I had to go to when I was studying art and design in school. It is indeed time to go back to the naturalistic themes that has made human artistic achievement what it has been in the past. Wonderful insight.
blueshadowdude 3 years ago
I like that term, blueshadowdude - "Cultural Retardism".
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Feel free to use it... it surely fits.
blueshadowdude 3 years ago
yeah, FIGHT THE POWER!
the cultural power that is
and any other power that deserves fighting
satanspal112 3 years ago
Ha, ha, ha "News, news, news" The artworld is somewhat mind boggling...elitists. Very informative video. Thank you.
ninanwk69 3 years ago