Nephilimfree`s Moon Hypothesis: Pressure Calculation - Part 3

[gregrutz]

How did lakes of water get under the rock in the first place? And under pressure.

Nephi is soooo stupid.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@IIXVXII

It`s all good. Most people (including me occasionally) act very badly when told they`re wrong, so you kinda need to have your guard up.

I`m glad to have an actual physicist jumping in.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@IIXVXII

Sure no problem.

Hope I haven`t said anything terribly inaccurate.

[UppsalaDragby]

Again, I have to point out that you cannot expect simple maths to demonstrate anything in the slightest vicinity of what you are attempting to prove. Taping togeter plastic pipes and bottles and whatnot on the kitchen floor and trying to apply mathematics to calculate the effects might work up to a certain extent. But if the number of times you scale up your experiment runs into astronomical figures then you can't possibly expect be able to take all parameters into consideration.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

Which is exactly why I don`t try to take all parameters into consideration.

I look at how much energy the rock has.

I look at how fast the water would go if it had that energy.

I look at how high the water would go if it went that fast, assuming NO resistance or inefficiency of any kind.

In an absolutely perfect scenario where all parameters favour NF, there is not enough energy.

Conservation of energy is the most supported law in science. No observation has ever violated it.

[UppsalaDragby]

"If the rock doesn`t fall the pressure doesn`t build up."

I'm not sure I follow you, so forgive me if I have missunderstood you here. Surely you don't believe that things like coal, oil, diamonds and so on were formed by falling rocks? Take 50 million marshmallows, carefully layer about, say, a gazillion tons of rock on top and leave it there for a thousand years or so. I would expect the marshmallows to be somewhat compressed, don't you think ;-)

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

Yes the pressure is high. Nobody is saying weight doesn`t cause pressure. But the pressure doesn`t become more over time (build up) from having the rock on top of it. A rock weighs the same, and exerts the same pressure, after 1 minute as it does after 1 year.

If I lay on a bed of nails that can support me for 1 minute, the pressure doesn`t build up until the nails go through me.

[UppsalaDragby]

It is also obvious that if you have sufficient build-up pressure in a confined area and one and ONLY one possible escape route then nozzle size does actually affect the velocity. Just letting water trickle out at the bottom of a plastic bottle doesn't do it. A small hole would offer greater resistence and force water to look for another escape route, which in this case would be upwards. On this level it's obvious that a larger hole would expel water with greater velocity.

[UppsalaDragby]

More importantly, you just can't do this kind of experiment on such a minute scale and think you are proving anything. For example, scaling it up a few trillion times would mean that air resistence would be practically non-existent, whereas in your experiment it would be considerable.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UD

Is it co-incidental that my experiments (part 1 and 2, at various scales) all line up with high school math?

I have already done the experiment dropping weights with only one escape route.

Please, do your own experiment where the only source of energy is the rock dropping. If you can get the rock to shoot the center of gravity of the water higher than it should go according to e=mgh, using any method, I`ll paypal you materials/labor costs if you share the patent rights.

We`ll be rich.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

On account of getting rid of resistance.

My math calculate the weight of the rock and how high it was. It compared this with the weight of the water and how high it could go. So my calculation assumed no resistance. My experiments reached about 90% of this calculation.

So, assuming Newtonian physics is true, wouldn`t it follow that all resistance only accounted for about 10% of the total energy?

Therefore, even with no resistance, we can only increase the height by 10%.

[UppsalaDragby]

Guys, you are making the same kind of mistake that Thunderf00t is making. Rather than using common sense you are relying on high school maths. Firstly, as Neph pointed out, "pressure on water does not equate to the force of dropping rock from a distance". Simply dropping things on water that have greater weight does not account for built-up pressure in a confined area.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

Good point, it does not account for a build up in pressure.

Please imagine this rock on the water, but instead of having a hole in the middle it has no hole. Leave it for 1 second, 1 minute, 1 hour and 1 year. Is the pressure any different between 1 second and 1 year of waiting?

The answer is clearly no, again there is no energy source except for the rock falling. If the rock doesn`t fall the pressure doesn`t build up. This is easily testable.

[JerezJulio]

water jets that shots out from the earth crust and made the moon craters.

It is a pity the people have to spent time to debunking these steaming Turds from a creationist retard.

I never thought that anyone can top the Crocoduct, and the Banama nightmare but man beat,

boy was I wrong or what, you never know what a complete moron will going to come with next.

NephillinFree makes Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron look smart.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@JerezJulio

I believe this is how it goes.

Christians facepalm when they see creationists.

Creationists facepalm when they see Ray Comfort.

Ray Comfort facepalms when he sees Nephilimfree.

[LoudestHoward]

Were you forced into doing the funky math, or pressured? :)

[RaymondCorrigan]

Wow Howard... Just wow.

[TadRaunch]

When NephilimFree sees a woman changing underwear, he ejaculates at supersonic speed 

[BadgerRavenmoon]

Utterly brilliant. You demonstrate that math/physics allows one to ask AND seek answers to almost any question.  Your passion is evident. SOLID!

[DarthSutekh]

Its even more ridiculous if you work backwards from escape velocity (which is a much larger more complicated bit of math as it changes with distance), but simply at the earths surface escape velocity is 11.2 kilometers per second, roughly 34 times the speed of sound. Here's where it gets impossible for Neph, at that speed at sea level air pressure, the effect is much like a meteor hitting the upper atmosphere, the water would become super-heated steam, result: planetary sterilization.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@DarthSutekh

Yep, I couldn`t imagine what would happen with weather and tidal waves either. I suppose they`ll just give Noah`s ark any abilities that it needs to have to survive.

[corthew]

I've done an addendum to the nozzle experiment to show what the aperture size really controls.

[corthew]

I may end up using the nozzle experiment to respond to someone elses video later.:)

But it doesn't mean I don't still love your vids.:)

[RaymondCorrigan]

@corthew

It`s all good man.

The more people who see this stuff the better.

[staledoughnuts1]

your videos are giving me a nerd-gasm

[RaymondCorrigan]

@staledoughnuts1

:  l

: 0

: O

uuuuugggghhhhhh!

~ ~

O

Sorry...

[BeanTheForce]

so did he respond to this third video at all?

[RaymondCorrigan]

@BeanTheForce

Indirectly, he doesn`t like mentioning people with fewer subscribers than him, but he made a few indirect references in a video a few days later.

To quote him

"Who knows how much pressure the water was under!"

....*sigh*

In the same video he put his thumb over a tap as an experiment.

Ozmoroid covered this weeks ago... So nothing new...

[BeanTheForce]

@RaymondCorrigan

Heh, kind of predictable.. Anyway, great video's, I enjoyed watching them!

[RaymondCorrigan]

@BeanTheForce

Thanks, I enjoyed making them : )

[Connected2U2]

Another HUGE oversight is he claims the water escaped from the mid-ocean ridge, well the ocean depth there is 3000+ meters with 300 bar counter pressure (6 tons on a grapefruit).

That is one hell of a problem regarding his nozzle theory if it has to travel through 3000+ meters of ocean and its pressure.

His nozzle theory hit a brick wall... Literally !

[RaymondCorrigan]

@Connected2U2

Nice point, didn`t even occur to me.

[UppsalaDragby]

Here's a question. Why do you think the aperture on a water pistol is so small? Try and shoot someone across the room with a sawn-off water pistol and see what happens.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

Good question.

That is because the energy applied to the trigger is a constant over time. Note that you also have to hold the trigger for longer to shoot out all of the water. This means you are putting more energy into a smaller amount of water (i.e. applying more pressure).

However, the energy over time in the rock falling example is a constant, so the energy at any time is lower for a smaller aperture as the flow is reduced.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@RaymondCorrigan

If you want to see this in action check out my links to other videos at the bottom of the description.

Particularly JRChadwick`s super soaker (with a constant pressure system) and Ozmoroid`s hose video (which demonstrates the pressure build up)

[UppsalaDragby]

Re-do the experiment so that the conditions are comparble to what you are testing. You cannot expect to the gravitation of the water itself, along with the pressure of a lighter medium such as air to do this. You need to provide built up pressure by using a heavier medium. Otherwise your results will be completely deceptive!!

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

This is the third video in a series. The first two were experiments exactly as you described (I perfectly balanced the water/ground density). This video was more focussed on the math, because I had already done that experiment twice (and spent about 12 and $60 on them!).

Check out

Nephilimfree`s Moon Hypothesis part 1: Scale test: watch?v=EKNnLEYmm3Y

and

Nephilimfree`s Moon Hypothesis part 2: Scale test: watch?v=xa7ZQnj-hso

and let me know what I did wrong.

[lolcat23]

@UppsalaDragby just accept that you are wrong. the math shows and proves it. experiments show and prove this. If you are right. a nozzle would create free energy for the whole world!

[UppsalaDragby]

@lolcat23 How does applying billions and billions of pressure to water provide "free" energy? What exactly does maths and experiments show and prove?

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaD

In part 1 I do the calculations and experiment and get ~90% efficiency. I calculate that the rock has enough energy to put the water up 33cm, and the water goes up 30cm. In other words 90% of the energy of the rock went into the water.

If decreasing nozzle size could shoot the water over 33cm (or 33km with NF) then that would be over 100% efficiency, in other words free energy.

The math is high school physics e=mgh.

Check out Ozmoroid`s `free energy` video in the video description.

[lolcat23]

@UppsalaDragby thick thick thick. 3 videos from one guy, and a couple of videos from other guys as well. all of them explain in different words how you are wrong. and STILL you prove you havent even understood the videos. "billions and billions of pressure" doesnt make any sense. its like saying "loads and loads of piece"

If you think you can prove the basic science of these videos or the water jet idea to be true, then sure, become a second nephilim free.

[UppsalaDragby]

The gravitational pressure applied in both bottles might be the same, but a larger aperture offers LESS resistance. This is incredibly significant in a small-scale experiment such as this where built-up pressure is basically non-existant. The energy exerted upwards would OBVIOUSLY be less for a large aperture than for a small.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

Yes, resistance is a factor at these scales.

I had some trouble with it in part 2 of my experiment.

However, every experiment I have conducted with tubes over 20mm was not dominated by resistance and has lined up very well with the math.

It seems strange that the experimental error from resistance, in my experiments and the handful I linked to (with different ratios/no tubes etc...) would always be just enough to make it seem like what I`m saying is right.

[UppsalaDragby]

The fact that you provide detailed calculations makes it seem like you know what you're talking about. But don't you think that the holes at the top of each bottle have an effect on the pressure exerted on the water being pushed out of the hoses? Water pumped out of a garden hose has only ONE escape route. Having two holes affects the pressure.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

"But don't you think that the holes at the top of each bottle have an effect on the pressure exerted on the water being pushed out of the hoses?"

Yes, I think that closing the hole at the top will cause the pressure to remain constant (at the starting pressure) until the hole is opened allowing air to flow in (i.e. The water will not flow at all with no hole at the top).

But it doesn`t matter what I think, so I just tested it, the water doesn`t flow with a lid on.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@UppsalaDragby

But that is actually a fundamental point. A garden hose is different to gravity. A hose has forced flow (or at least effective forced flow due to the water system`s pressure being higher than what comes out of your tap).

If you totally or partially block off a garden hose the pressure builds up to meet that of the water system (see Ozmoroid`s video). If you block off a rock falling, or a bottle filled with water, the pressure remains constant (feel free to test this).

[Tylzen]

Great video!

[AuntieDiluvian]

Really cool, Raymond! Great to meet you - thanks for subbing - returned.

[Hereticbooks]

The guy is a geo-centrist. I mean, how much more stupidity does one need?

[army103]

I'm astounded that Nephilim is still trying to push this argument. I would have expected that even someone as stupid as him to have quietly slunk away with his tail between his legs by now.

[TheApe81]

I was pondering today. Wouldn't the pressure argument have more to do with pressure differential?

ie. the pressure differential between the 45,325psi you calculated and atmospheric pressure at sea level.

Because Nephy supports the vapor canopy hypothesis as well as hydroplate and has stated in watch?v=_drMClgn2lg "we lost the canopy... atmospheric pressure dropped..." it means he believes the pressure was much higher.

Therefore a much lower pressure differential. Opps for Nephy... Again.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@TheApe81

That seems to make sense.... It certainly doesn`t help Neph`s case.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@TheApe81

That seems to make sense.... It certainly doesn`t help Neph`s case.

[TheApe81]

@RaymondCorrigan

Occurred to me today when talking to an engineer about fracking a coal seam. Confining pressure and all that. Pump air @ 100psi into a flat tire and it flows faster than pumping air into a tire already @50psi. And considering creationists expect enough water to significantly contribute to the flood the ΔP is probably closer to 20000 rather than 45000. Neph's problems are multiplying. Really liked your vedio BTW. Seeing the actual math was ace.

[pamew]

Well, I'm not a physics master or an engineer (If only I was that qualified in any field lol :c), But at the pressure levels we're talking about the entire "rock nozzle" would surely be blasted apart by the water pressure. Even if say hypothetically the "nozzle"was a massive single piece of granite with a natural inverse funnel shape in it, that much pressure would probably blast the entire thing into the air like a huge gas gun pellet. This is all just ignorant supposition of course lol.

[LJonathan]

What would happen then if you put pressure on the water moving upwards in supersonic speed? Can it reach escape velocity?

[RaymondCorrigan]

@LJonathan

Sorry, I might not understand the question.

The water would be about 15 times slower than escape velocity.

If there was a straight continuous stream then the water would not need to reach escape velocity. Similarly you could slowly climb a ladder into space.

But the problem with that is that the earth is spinning twice as fast as the water is shooting out, so the spout would not be straight for long... I think.

[LJonathan]

@RaymondCorrigan I mean, if the nozzle size at the bottom is large, but nozzle size at the exit is small, then you would have an increase in pressure of the water flowing, which in turn would increase the velocity of the water (Bernoulli's principle).

Of course, the earth could probably not maintain this pressure on the water, but let's forget about that for Neph's sake. ;)

Regarding escape velocity and supersonic speed, it does sound interesting. Need to read up on it. Thanks.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@LJonathan

I assume it wouldn`t because that would still violate conservation of energy... But I honestly don`t know what would happen to the pressure.

[LJonathan]

@RaymondCorrigan I'm thinking that the horizontal forces adds to the vertical forces, leading the water up. That's the way I understand Bernoulli's principle.

[DarkScience0]

The thing that Nephilim wont take into account is that, by increasing the pressure so that it can escape earth, he literally makes it impossible to happen. At that psi the water would shoot out as superheated vapor increasing in volume over 1000 times its original volume and anything in its path would be instantly boiled and or vaporized. Some old guy, his family and a bunch of animals in a wooden boat wouldn't stand a chance.

[Mglosk]

From the many years of dealing with Nephilim, seeing him and getting completly sickened by his physical appearance, I have come to the conclusion that either he's completely batshit insane, or this is a complete act like Stephen Colbert. Either way, he will not bend or break from his position.

But everyone needs to keep up the good work fighting him because he sometimes reaches people and they will follow him.

Cool vid.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@Mglosk

Thanks,

Wouldn`t that be fantastic if Nephilimfree turned out to be a physicist playing a prank.

I think this sort of thing is also a good chance to teach folk about science and to learn ourselves. For example I wasn`t terribly familiar with evolution until the whole ID debate started.

[Mglosk]

@RaymondCorrigan True, the thing is, I believe, that one needs to post vids against people like Neph, not to get through to Neph, but to get through to reasonable people who are on the borderline, and are starting to take these nuts seriously.

It's kind of like cult-leader protection.

The only way to do it is to teach real science that holds up. That's why I believe your vid works so well.

[largestpixel]

Another conclusive video.Thanks

its just a shame that so many great mines must be wasted refuting the same wild clams repeatedly.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@largestpixel

Thanks mate. I wouldn`t call it a total waste. I have a braindead job and at least this gives me a chance to think and learn.

[ozmoroid]

Good explanation ... I enjoyed imaging Neph watching and saying, "But more rock means more pressure."

[RaymondCorrigan]

@ozmoroid

Thanks, I kinda wonder how his mind will rationalize away me directly telling him not to just repeat his position.

[matias2309]

Great video! NF will ignore it...but some of us did learn a lot!

[RaymondCorrigan]

@matias2309

Thanks, that`s the point in the end.

[givingmantoo]

The bed of nails example was good ... good job.

[TAz69x]

Neph's IQ = divide random fraction by ZER0

X )

[MorpheusOmikron]

@TAz69x

....so nephs IQ is infinite o_o Since 0 goes into any number an infinite amount of times? You must think pretty highly of him, hot damn.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@MorpheusOmikron

Well technically I think it is undefined... But yeah, it certainly approaches infinity.

[TAz69x]

@MorpheusOmikron lol, I was talking the literal calculator answer (Error) =P

[Toudiyama]

you giving Neph too much credit by calling his idea an hypothesis

Great explanation again

now the waiting is for a Nephy fanboy to come and make fool of himself trying to debunk ssimple physics

[RaymondCorrigan]

@Toudiyama

We can only hope.

[StubbornProgrammer]

Great video. Won't make a dent in Neph's conviction that he's right... but it's always nice to see good physics the internet.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@StubbornProgrammer

Yeah, the main point of this video is to teach a bit of math and physics, as I learnt quite a bit researching it. I expect neph will just ignore it.

[finchfrance]

@foojoku "Neph's confusion about nozzle size..."

hmm, that made me think of something.  Could it be that Dumb-dumb (nephy) suffers from "small nozzle syndrome"?

[RaymondCorrigan]

@foojoku

Yeah, I think so too.

I would have mentioned this but ozmoroid already did an awesome video showing this very simply. You block a hose completely, the pressure builds up and the jet shoots out longer.

That bastard always steals my ideas before I think of them!

I`ve just added it to the links in the video notes.

[TheStoasterRisen]

I love your responses to Neph's moon junk. They're just awesome. I find it hysterical(and a bit sad) how clearly you can address his claims and he just keeps trying desperately to make his claim sound reasonable.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@TheStoasterRisen

Thanks mate, glad you`re not sick of them yet.

[DebateCreation]

Wow... Neph is still going on about the moon? The poor deluded fella... he tries so hard To save face In his futile attempt to save face with so many different excuses. And each time, he is shown repeatedly by multiple different people to be wrong with absolutely no understanding of the science and physics behind it. And yet he still will not admit to being wrong. Instead he just keeps going and going and ignores everyone. The science/physics and the mathematics behind it. I pity, that man.

[RaymondCorrigan]

@DebateCreation

Yep, he posted that response a bit over a week ago.

I don`t mind it so much though, it`s a fun thought experiment and gives me a reason to spend an evening nerding out... Maybe that`s more pitiful in the end : (