Mays was Rookie of the Year, not Mantle Mays was a 24 time All Star, 2x MVP in All Star games Mantle? (20x) Mays had 660 home runs, Mantle? (536), Mays had 3,283 hits, Mantle? (2,415), Mays had 1,903 RBI's Mantle? (1,509) Mays batting average was .302 Mantle? (.298) Mays has 12 Golden Gloves Mantle? (1) Mays hit 4 home runs in 1 game, Mantle never did that. Mantle leads in only 2 categories: 1 more MVP and 6 more rings. Both born same year. Mantle drank himself to death. Mays still alive.
baseball is a team sport. I don't get carried away with how many championships they won although mantle of course had alot to do with it. Mantle was at his best clearly better than mays.
Mantle said in an interview the Kaline was better than him! Mantle was the most modest guy in the world. Check Hank Aaron on Letterman on Youtube, said that Mantle had more ABILITY than he,Mays,himself or anybody, until he was injured. More speed,power,ect The fact is that many had better carrers than Mantle, but no one had the natural ability he posesed.Hell, Pete Rose had a better carrer you could argue!
@loughran03 for lived-up-to-potential, maybe others had better careers but mantle won 7 rings, should have won at least 5 mvps (won 3) on one leg. THAT'S 3 CAREERS.
The Mick played on much better teams than Willie. Does anyone think that the Yankees would have won less if they had Mays instead of Mantle? Please!!! Mickey was a great fielder but no one would put him in Mays' class defensively. Willie is arguably the greatest fielding outfielder ever. Plus he led in stolen bases 4 times and ran the bases as well as anybody. Finally Mickey himself said Willie was better. The Mick was great,but slight edge to the Say Hey Kid.
@6retsub hypothetical nonsense. mays did not play for the yanks. dream about it. mantle was one in a million and he, berra and ford carried those teams. mays had great talent around him and couldn't beat the dodgers.
mantle's ob% was 40 points higher. mantle was a 329 hitter righthanded and a shoulder injury prevented him from hitting as high lefty. still, playing on one good leg he was unreal. if healthy there is absolutely no argument. mantle 7 rings. nuff said.
@mspinkytee ok genius. I'll delete it right away. Oh wait a minute. There is one more little thing to say- "It's about the rings, stupid". Mays had Cepeda, McCovey, Felipe Alou, Matty Alou, Hart, Perry and Marichal and could not get it done. Pathetic. Sorry kid.
@MJVESSIO We disagree on how much post season play should matter, but I don't totally discount it either. Nevertheless, I enjoy all your videos and the work you put into them
@clash5j "the work you put into them" - that statement made my day. Finally someone realizes the amount of effort it takes to make these vids. Thank you kind sir.
Mays was Rookie of the Year, not Mantle Mays was a 24 time All Star, 2x MVP in All Star games Mantle? (20x) Mays had 660 home runs, Mantle? (536), Mays had 3,283 hits, Mantle? (2,415), Mays had 1,903 RBI's Mantle? (1,509) Mays batting average was .302 Mantle? (.298) Mays has 12 Golden Gloves Mantle? (1) Mays hit 4 home runs in 1 game, Mantle never did that. Mantle leads in only 2 categories: 1 more MVP and 6 more rings. Mantle drank himself to death. Mays still alive. The Stats don't lie.
Mays got everything there was to get out of his ability, was damn exciting doing it, & was great in every phase of the game. The Mick was the most talented player I ever saw on a baseball field but due to injury & his own negligence, underachieved despite the 536 HRs and the most amazing tape measure jobs you'd ever believe possible. The Say Hey Kid left it all on the field so he gets the nod. Mickey will always be my favorite player, but despite the injuries, he should have owned the record bk.
@skywoof7 Bill James said Mays used about 90% of his potential and Mantle 58%. Still with one leg Mantle has 12 series and 7 rings. Rings get the nod every time. Mantle and Berra were the 2 best players in the American league in the 50's. It's about the rings.
If the Giants had about 10% of the Yankees revenue and a half way decent stadium to play in without what just about amounted to a wall of wind in left field, I think it would look like something like this: Mays, Bonds, Ruth (well, and Mantle somewhere way down there).
I think the championship rings situation would have looked vastly different too.
If the Giants had about 10% of the Yankees revenue and a half way decent stadium to play in without what just about amounted to a wall of wind in left field, I think it would look like something like this: Mays, Bonds, Ruth (well, and Mantle somewhere way down there).
I think the championship rings situation would have looked vastly different too.
@IMJUSTS0MEGUY you listed the could be hr kings? healthy mantle hits 800 easy. so what. it's about the rings. excuses are for losers. not you. losers in general. knowing how to win, the sacrifices to be made etc., have nothing to do with budgets, ballparks, injuries etc. Having a pathologically competitive mind is the most essential thing. Giant teams were loaded but could not beat the Dodgers. That's not Mantle's problem.
Yeah yeah. And Mays probably would have hit 1000 if he had played in just about any other park. On the other hand if Hank The Launching Pad Aaron played in any other park Micky might of at least beat him.
Also Mays was known for changing games with his running. Put Micky in Candlestick and his bad leg probably would have froze off and this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue.
@IMJUSTS0MEGUY ...Maybe Mays would have hit more homers in most other stadiums, but there is no way Mays would have hit as many home runs had he played in Yankee Stadium. With center field and left-center field dimensions of 450+, Mays would have had a more difficult time hitting homers in old yankee stadium.
You can have your own opinions, but remember that Mickey Mantle played in a left-hander friendly ballpark, and Willie Mays played at Candlestick Park, which was by no means a hitter ballpark-- yet Willie Mays still hit over 120 more home runs in his career.
Despite all of this, I'm sure Mickey had great respect for Willie, and Willie has great respect to Mickey.
@Coastergeekperson04 Mantle was hurt by the stadium. His power was to the alleys and he lost 15 hrs a year easy. As a switch hitter (right-handed) he was hurt badly by death valley. Mantle hit more hrs on the road than at home. Still it's all about winning. Mays used 90% of his potential and Mantle about 58%. Think about that. Yes Mays was more than great. Mantle got 7 rings on one leg. If....
I didn't see Mays as much as Mantle growing up because the Yankees were on TV so much more in the East than the Giants. And so I was a Mickey fan. But my father and grandfather, who both lived in the Bronx, were Giants fans just because of Mays. When I finally got to see him play, it was obvious why. He controlled the ballgame in so many ways, like Michael Jordon later did in basketball.. Stats lie, Mays played for years in Candlestick Park. The Mick was truly great, but Mays was just better.
Man i dont know. Mays had a bettr all around game but mantyle had the heart so u gotaa giv it to jhim there. Love th videos tho!!! Cept for 1 thing. PETE ROSE @#2 all time!!! COMEON!!!
@MJVESSIO man don h8 i said mantle was beter. i dont even know. My dad was a big fan abck in the day of all those ol players not me. he use to love watchin mays.
Mantle had more rings that Mays because he had better players around him. Baseball is a TEAM sport and there's no doubt the Yankees had better teams than the Giants all throughout Mays' career. Absolutely, Mantle is one of the all-time greats, but IMO Willie was the greatest ever!
@gladdadof4 Where do you people come from? Mays sucked in the post-season. 248 1hr in 25 games.
Postseason success separates men from boys. Mays was surrounded with more hall of famers than Mantle. Do your homework. Mantle, Berra ans Ford carried those teams. Mays blew it. Besides Mantle was a switch hitter. Couldn't be pitched to. Mantle was the leader of the MOST successful teams of all-time. And he did it on ONE LEG. lol. Game over genius.
@IMJUSTS0MEGUY Yankee Stadium hurt Mantle as much. His power was to the alleys. Hitting righthanded hurt more because of Death Valley. He played on one good leg. If healthy, this vid would not have been made.
line you can control the outcume, and the game is in your hands... baseball that is not the case, because in a clutch situation mays or mantle are not always at the plate, and the ball is not always hit their way
And again, championships are a team accomplishment, and especially in a sport like baseball where all the pieces for a team are so important for success. Being a centerfielder is not like being a quarterback where every offensive play you touch the ball, and when the game is on the
@Soriano789 Again, pitcher/batter confrontations, no.3 and no.4 hitters and top 3 pitchers. Mantle, Berra and Ford are the 3 irreplaceable players. no one else on the team comes close. they get the most credit. 6 mvps for berra and mantle. could have been 8. The MOST SUCCESSFUL TEAM IN BASEBALL HISTORY. (Mantle 420ob% to Mays383ob% lifetime. that's a big difference) do your research.
@MJVESSIO No, im not picking mantle over mays. I said if Mantle was able to stay healthy, then I would take Mantle over Mays. But, I believe if Griffey stayed healthy he would have been better than both, regardless.
@Soriano789 Silly comment. griff's very low ob%, i think 369 ,is pathetic. In the end all anyone cares about is winning. Period. Winning. "It's about the rings, stupid"- Casey Stengal
@MJVESSIO Because I'm saying Mantle over Mays that means I don't have half of a baseball brain? I guess SportingNews, BaseballAlmanac, have even less than half a baseball brain, not to add the many analysts like Tim Kurkjian who say that Mays was the best ever. I will say this though, if Mantle was not plagued with injuries then he would have probably been the best ever, but he was... So ask you this, is Ken Griffey Jr. in your top 5 center fielders? because if he didn't get injured many believe
@Soriano789 See my vid greatest mlb centerfielders for Griff jr. Experts- They don't consider rings as important as i do. that's their problem, since they're probably haters. Are you picking mantle over mays now? WINNING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN NUMBERS. ALWAYS WILL BE.
@MJVESSIO Mays won't rank in the top 5 defensive center fielders of all time? I find that very hard to believe, the guy only had 12 gold gloves. "It's about your catcher, 3 and 4 hitter and top 3 pitchers. Every one else is complimentary." You just said that Derek Jeter was "complimentary" which as we both know is simply false. Yes, Mantle did not reach his full potential and if he wasn't plagued by injuries he would have put up gaudier numbers, but he was injured for most of his career.
2) Being in the post-season on a consistent basis is not an individual achievement it's a team achievement...
3) If you ask someone who is the greatest football player are of all time, they would say jim brown, or jerry rice.. the greatest basketball player they would say jordan, followed by magic, kareem wilt etc... but baseball is much different than these other sports because very rarely do you see a team win championships
@Soriano789 Again, It's about pitcher batter confrontations. It's about your catcher, 3 and 4 hitter and top 3 pitchers. Every one else is complimentary. You must field 9 men and have a roster of 25. But in the post season players with balls step up. Mantle and Berra, Russell and Cousy did it better and longer than anyone. I'm tired of having to explain things to you.Go to baseball websites and see what non-youtubers have to say. Mays as a fielder won't rate in the top 5.
@Soriano789 Anyone with half a baseball brain would take Mantle in his healthy prime as a PowerSwitch-hitting, High average, 500OB%, Dragbunting, Top Defensive Outfielder with a Powerful Arm and Leadership Ability. Mantle was estimated to have used 58% of his potential. Imagine.
@MJVESSIO Exactly, Mantle, Berra, and Ford carried those teams, not just Mantle. And your whole it's about the rings is typical yankee fan bullshit. Championships are team accomplishments, not individual accomplishments. So because Jeter has 5 championships he's better than Honus Wagner? Or Because Whitey Ford had 6 Rings he's a better Pitcher than Bob Gibson or Sandy Koufax?? Don't let team success dictate how great one's individual accomplishments are... Mickey Mantle was an all time-great..
@Soriano789 Wake-up. Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Mantle, Gehrig, DiMaggio etc. get the most credit. Comparing Jeter to Hornsby based on rings alone is idiotic. If they were comparable in regular season numbers and skills then the scales tip to the player who handles the pressure of the post season. don't be so simplistic. you are never going to win an argument knocking winners. never. "yankee fan bullshit" is hater talk.
Mantle was a great player no doubt. I don't think he is better Than The Say Hey Kid though. Mays was a 5 tool player he could hit, hit for power, he could run, he had the greatest arm, and he was the greatest center fielder of all time. Players like Hank Aaron, and Ernie Banks said that Mays was the best they have ever seen. Not taking anything away from mantle he too was among the best that ever lived. If he had 2 strong legs then he would have been one of the best. But, Mays is the best.
@MJVESSIO the team success cannot be used, especially in a sport like Baseball where there are so many contributors to a successful team. Additionally, your stolen base statistic is garbage... Mays had more stolen bases (338) than Mantle's attempts to steal (191) so its not surprising that Mays would have a lower percentage, let alone a difference of 3% (80-77). And to give you an example of how talented the Yankees were in the 60s...
@MJVESSIO From 1951-1962 The Yankees won 7 World Series Titles, and they weren't all just due to Mantle's great talent. Yes he was a leader of the Yankees, but let's say you put Mays on the Yankees and Mantle on the Giants, Mays would have those 7 world series titles and all the post season homers, but I wouldn't use that in my argument because getting a team deep in the playoffs consistently is not something that one guy can do, it takes an entire team to do that, so when comparing two players
@MJVESSIO I understand that you are entitled to your own opinion, but I can tell that you are probably a die-hard yankee fan, which makes your judgement on this a little tainted to say the least. To say that Mantle over Mays is an easy choice is just as ridiculous as saying Mays over Mantle is an easy choice. And your continued reference to Mantle's phenomenal post season success is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned because Mantle was a part of one of the most dominant Baseball Dynasty's ever
@Soriano789 you can't argue with success. you're deconstructing mantle's great affect on his team. you can't win. 12 pennants and 7 rings speak for themselves. period. mantle, berra and ford carried those teams. sorry kid.
@riccardinod Teams are made up of PLAYERS. you win big because of great pitching, great defense, clutch hitting, your number 3 and 4 hitters and your catcher. Mantle's ob% was much higher than Mays. Mantle, Berra and Ford were easily the 3 most important players on the most successful teams of all time. there is no debate. you think mickey was gonna say to the press he was the greatest. don't be so naive. "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE RINGS. STUPID". Yankee stadium cost Mantle big time. RESEARCH.
@riccardinod Don't waste your time with this guy. He wants comments here so he can insult people for having a different opinion. He doesn't want to have an intelligent discussion. He's just a little boy who feels the need to berate others who are only sharing their own opinion. Logic and common sense doesn't work on this troll. He's actually kind of funny in his childish defense of debating which of these two greats are better. He needs a life.
@keagleman21 keagleman? sounds like a character from a woody allen play! WHY DO YOU KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE ABUSE, YOU MORON? This whole thing is a joke and you're trying to get others to side with you over a stupid video? you're 51? no no. more like 15. am i correct? GO AWAY AND GET A FREAKIN LIFE!!!!!!!!!
@MJVESSIO LOL, you just keep proving over and over again what a childish, stupid asshole you are! It's entertaining to see you lose it with person after person. What do you do when you have real problems MJVessio, cry like a baby, lol? MJVesssio, sounds like a the small-time, wussbag who gets wasted in bad mafia movies. I don't have to guess your age, because your real emotional age is here for all to see-- 5. For sure Asswipe, you have to live with yourself. That's God's best punishment, lol.
@riccardinod take away mantle's rings and you can make an easy case because of mays longer stretch of high level of performance. but 4 me, regular season numbers pale in comparison to consistently good performers and leaders in post-season. credit should be given to the winners. it's not their fault the other guys teams didn't win. it's to the winners credit. credit. how much credit is the big question. besides, mantle did all this on one leg.
@riccardinod IF MANTLE WAS HEALTHY THROUGHTOUT HIS CAREER, THERE WOULD BE NO DEBATE AT ALL. MANTLE WAS ESTIMATED TO HAVE REACHED 58% OF HIS POTENTIAL. MAYS OVER 90%. THINK ABOUT THAT.
@riccardinod thats nuts. you don't put up the same numbers against top pitching in the postseason regularly. its about leading and winning. see 2001 WS where the yanks scored 14 runs in 7 games and almost stole it.
I did a study of home runs ,rbi's,runs,and on base percentage per at bats,and Mickey wins in all those crucial categories.Willie was one of the greatest,but Mickey did have the better numbers.Willie lasted longer,but was not as great as Mick.My information was taken from Baseball Encyclopedia.Mickey's oba was 512,Willie's 436.Mickey had one hr per 15 ab,Willie had 1 per 16.For rbi's-Mickey 1 per 5.3,Willie 1 per 5.7.Runs-Mickey 1 per 4.8,Willie 1 per 5.2.
@bobbybrancati rare when someone isn't cursing and yelling in response to this vid. nice info. plus this- 7 rings to 1. And mantle did all this on one leg.
mays should have won the mvp in 1962. wills stole it by stealing bases like know one before. but the giants beat the dodgers in the playoffs. mays hit a couple hrs in that first game. scored the insurance run in that crazy 9th inning when the giants scored 4 runs to win 6-4. mays in his career also played shortstop , second base, and first base. i think he even might have caught in a game or 2. point is mays was versatile. he could do anything.
It's a well made film, but there are too many untruths that you state that others already made clear to you. Fact is, your idol and mine, Mickey Mantle would not agree with you at all. Mick had said countless times, and many of them recorded, that Willie Mays was the greater player and that Mick was proud to take a back seat to him. Case closed.
None the less, Mantle was great. I treasure all the times I've seen him play in person, as I do Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente and so many others,
@keagleman21 "It's about the rings, stupid" Stand on yout head and analyze all you want about the dopey video. it's people like you who choose to debate this crap when the other videos i've made about racial inequality and social issues concerning baseball are ignored. you are the toddler. grow up, ignore this throw away video i made and focus on the more important videos. are you kidding?
again concerning mays, cobb, teddycakes; "it's about the rings, stupid". enough already.
Mays, unlike the Mick, is not measured by stats. Mays' greatness lies in the un-measurable - those moments that defy imagination and is only captured by the great sportswriters who were there.
The impossible score from first base on a bunt. His uncanny knack to throw to a base that no one ever expected and that prevented a run. His ability to slow down rounding third to draw a throw so that the batter could reach second and Mays still managed to score. He played a game no else ever did.
@artemisx123 The ability to lay down a drag bunt as a power hitter, an infielder's nightmare. The ability to inspire by limping to home plate in great pain and hitting a gamewinning hr. A managers nightmare- who to bring in to pitch to the greatest switch-hitter ever. The unrivaled ability to be the unquestioned leader on the most successful teams in the history of baseball. you write well buddy, but "It's about the rings, stupid". Mays will always come up short. "Team game" is sophomoric.
@MJVESSIO Limping evokes sympathy, but has nothing to do with talent. Your argument seems to center around the teams Mantle played with (the "rings"). Had Mays (or Williams or others) played with such talented teams, they would have had the "rings" Mantle had. I rest my case on the opinions of those who saw both players. Mays ALWAYS comes up ahead of Mickey. In fact, only Mays is ever discussed in the same breath as the Babe for the greatest of all-time. Ty Cobb is in that mix somewhere. .
@artemisx123 Today I deal with all the morons once and for all. F@#k "teams". It's about "batter/pitcher confrontations" Players 15 - 25 are complimentary. GET IT. it's your 1 to 5 hitters, your catcher and top 3 pitchers. can u add? that's 9. Mantle, Berra and Ford are 3. mantle and berra batted 3-4. berra was a catcher. SUCCESS. OVER AND OVER. NOT BECAUSE OF KUBEK, OR LINZ OR RICHARDSON, YOU MORON. MAYS WAS SURROUNDED WITH MORE TALENT. you're just another dodger/mets/redsox jealous baby fan.
@MJVESSIO Thanks for your reply. In case anyone was unsure, now we all know that you're a borderline nutcase. Your latest is incomprehensible, but who's surprised? Go play with your baseball cards and leave the rest of us alone. Come back when you take your meds. Poor Mickey - what a schmuck to have for a defender. Mantle deserves better. He was one of the greatest, but you'd never know it by reading this moron.
@artemisx123 ...Mantle's ability was NOT measure simply by stats. The guy had the confidence to drag bunt with 2 strikes, and turned it into a base hit pretty much every time. Mantle was an intimidating presence at the plate, probably the last guy any pitcher wanted to face during a crucial point in the game. There's no question Mays had the better career and was great for a longer period of time. The video is simply making the point that in their primes, Mantle was better. And he was.
@artemisx123 All true. Mays was the superior baseball mind and could do so much for the team that few others could. But on MJ's side you can cite intagibles about all great players including Mick. But indeed Mays may have been king in that area. What MJ also gets wrong is Mays out distances the Mick in most offensive and defensive categories anyway. He claims his analysis is by the "rings" Mantle won over Mays, but he sure goes to great lengths to prove an unprovable argument via stats.
Respond to this video...What he also forgets is that the Yanks forever have had so much money to throw at getting the best players from the 20's through the early 60's. When owner Dan Topping let the farm system slide, stopped putting money into the team, and the Yanks like Boston and much of the American League were too slow in getting black players-- the Yanks even with Mick, tanked and became a cellar dweller. So, it s more about money that made and broke the Yanks, not Mick.
Hard to find a player's single season performance that compares to Mantle's in 1956 or 1957, though Mays's 1955 compares well with Mantle's 1961, but I don't see OBP as a fail proof formula for measuring a player's value. Mays had his highest OBP at age 40 in 1971, largely because he walked 112 times. If it could, Giant management and Mays himself would have gladly exchanged the 40 year old Mays for the 30 year old version, OBP notwithstanding.
The SF Giants of the mid 60's came very close to winning pennants on 3 occasions. In 1965, the Giants in competition with the Dodgers, Mays hit 19 HRs in Aug. alone. That Mays's team still finished 2 games out of 1st indicated that it lacked a pitcher. Mays was surly doing his part. Can't measure a baseball player's worth based on his team's success as one can in basketball, where one individual's, say, selfishness or uninspired defense influences more directly a game's outcome.
@VolTupungato you can when you are the undisputed leader of the most successful team in basebal history. it's about the rings. everything else is just excuses. winning is the most important thing to most ballplayers, period. we're not talking about a difference of maybe 1 or 2 pennants/world series. we're talking a HUGE difference. you're defending the other side of the fence. yoiu will get nowhere. empty losing logic. at this point most youtubers get angry, call names and quit.
@MJVESSIO I love your vids ,but Man your fandom shades your opinions. If I was an informed N.Y fan I would not brag about the jaded titles. How can you not know about the collusion between the Boston GM and the Yankees that got Ruth to NY?
How could you be proud of them using Connie Mack's money woes to make the Athletics a Yankee farm team for decades?
And it was later repeated by Charlie O. who learned the trick from Mack.
Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle were both great players. They were great talents. Willie Mays was a more complete player, but Mantle was better at some things. He certainly won more games and titles, but I don't see how that falls into the equation at all. It's really easy to say the 1950's Yankees were better than the 1950's Giants. No one would even debate you on that. If you are going to make an argument like this, it has to be about how they played individually, not their teams.
@dancnqueensara wrong. larry bird, for instance, though part of a great "team" was easily the most important player and the teams leader. aweinspiriing player. Mantle was that plus. you miss the whole point. I'm tired of having to explain this to 19yr old youtubers who think baseball started yesterday. know what I mean?
@MJVESSIO Bill Russell would easily eclipse Larry Bird in that department. You are really defensive, MJ and that speaks volumes. It is kind of childish of you to make the claims you have as incompletely as you have and not think that you'd get a great deal of flack. It's kind of funny all the energy you expend on your hilarious replies. You only will feed more negative feedback as others know you will react to it. Kind of silly for someone who claims to be an older guy.
OK, I'm with you as far as getting into the playoffs, but siting playoff statistics is a bit silly. Ernie Banks has zero playoff stats; does that mean he would have performed poorly in the postseason?
@millerbz Banks gets no credit for being a playoff performer period. not his fault? fine. but give credit where credit IS DUE. Give me Mantle, you take the great Banks. I know Mantle comes through. You know nada about banks in pressure games. Therefore Mantle gets credit for his accomplishments as a playoff performer. It's so simple even I 'm starting to laugh
This is a great video and great comparison, but continually referencing post-season sucess is an absurd comparison between a NY Yankee and a SF Giant. The Giants just didn't much postseason.
@millerbz that's the whole point. Mantle, berra and ford led their teams to more success than anyone ever. they get the most credit. "It's about the rings, stupid"- casey stengal. It's not Mantle's fault SF couldn't beat the Dodgers. the burden is Mays'. Mantle &Larry Bird may be the 2 most inspiring athletes of the last 50 years. Mantle did it on one good leg. Got nothing to do with Mays. Mantle has 7 rings. he did the most on his team to earn them. Maybe if Mays walked more?
@MJVESSIO put mays in mantles situation and you would be saying mays is the best ever. Listen to what your saying "its not mantle fault SF coudlnt beat the dodgers". The Giants and Yankees are 2 VERY DIFFERENT TEAMS. Obviously the Yankees were a much better team but in the end of the day Mays was a better player
The fact that you made this video as a response to Willie Mays catch tells me all I need to know. I'm not arguing anymore. I stated every fact that exists. You want to use non-statistical reasoning to say Mantle was better when he clearly was not. Mays team was nowhere near as talented top to bottom as Mantle's. You obviously don't understand how ridiculous your argument that titles make one player better than another player sounds even when I throw it in your face over and over. I'm done.
@vaibanez17 In response to a catch? What the hell are you talking about? and ever hear of big-time clutch players you little kid? Larry Bird, John Elway, Bill Russel, Derek Jeter, Jerry West, Jackie Robinson, Lou Gehrig etc. These players do exist and they played at a higher level than their peers. You are a moron. Make your own videos, on your own little channel and show us all what a genius you are. You are 26 going on 15.
@MJVESSIO I was also directed here after watching a Willie Mays catch video. It says "this is a video response to Willie Mays catch". A wise man once said "Any wise statement stands up for itself, and does not need many longwinded men spending hours defending it." So maybe if you just let the video do the talking and stop replying to everyone who disagees with you, this would go a lot smoother.
@dancnqueensara This vid and my two ted videos are meant to incite. I know I get sophomoric sometimes with the crazed youtubers, but I enjoy it. foolish me. but the serious comment makers hit my serious vids. appreciate your comment.
ALSO, Mickey Mantle only had 4 seasons ever with 100+ RBIs. Willie Mays had 8 seasons in a row of 100+ RBIs and 10 seasons overall of 100 RBIs. This is not close, you love Mickey Mantle and that's fine. However, you need to take account of the whole of statistics and stop going on your love for Mickey and see who the better player was. Almost every person who played in that era would tell you Mays was way better. Bill James even said Mays deserved 3 more MVPs than he won.
If Mantle was "probably" faster than Mays on the bases, why does Mickey have 153 steals and Mays has 338? Mays has a higher BA and played 4 seasons longer than Mantle. Mays has more RBIs by a lot. Mays has more home runs by a lot. Mays scored more runs by a lot. Don't bring up MVPs because we all know that MVP voting was a joke back then as it sometimes is now. Don't base whether a player is better than another on awards or titles. Of course Mantle won more, he was on the Yankees!
@vaibanez17 Speed involves SBs, Baserunning, bunting and hitting into DPs. Mantle should have won 6MVPs. Still that's regular season. 7 rings is what it's about. Has nothing to do with Mays. It's to Mantle's credit.
Yeah how far was it from home plate to right field? Those were some really cheap home runs in right field at old Yankee Stadium. Look at Candlestick and park factors and get back to me...
@MJVESSIO I'm not "19 years old" I'm 26 and have been studying baseball my entire life. There is a video on youtube that shows several of the top baseball announcers saying Willie Mays is the best player they ever saw and this is in the 70's after both player's careers were over or winding down for Mays. It's about individually which player was a better player. If we're going to go with Rings as the end all be-all then Ramiro Mendoza(4 rings) is a better relief pitcher than Trevor Hoffman(0).
@vaibanez17 Mendoza was a complimentary player for god's sakes. Stupid comparison. Mantle, Berra and Ford carried their teams, not Kubek, Richardson etc. FACT
@MJVESSIO Your argument would mean that: Bernie Williams(4 rings) is better than Ken Griffey Jr(0). Jeff Conine(2) is better than Frank Thomas(1). Nick Swisher(1) is better than Tony Gwynn(0). Andy Pettitte(5) is better than Greg Maddux(1), Walter Johnson(1), Bob Feller(1), Cy Young(1), & Lefty Grove(2). Scott Brosius(3) is way better than Ted Williams(0)! Do you see how stupid this sounds? If you are saying 1 player is better than another player, you have to use stats, not rings.
@MJVESSIO This translates to all sports. Nobody in their right mind would say that Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino was, even though Dilfer won a Super Bowl and Marino did not. You cannot be this dense. NOBODY is saying Mantle wasn't a great player, he definitely was one of the best of all time. He is just not as well rounded or great, nor did he have the consecutive great years that Willie did. Willie had a huge impact on the sport. It can't be denied.
@vaibanez17 More stupidity. Mantle was not a lefthanded pull hitter. His power was to the gaps. Do research please. He was a switch-hitter!. He lost at least 15-25 HRs a year at the stadium. Are you for real? And again- Mantle was a BIG part of 12 Pennant winners and 7 WS Champs while playing at , according to your God Bill James, 58%! ON ONE GOOD LEG!!!!!!!!!!!
@vaibanez17 Yankee Stadium was only short down the lines....Mantle wasn't a dead pull hitter. The majority of his homers were hit to the gaps, which were quite a long ways from home plate. How about all the balls he hit to left center that traveled 440 feet and were OUTS?
this is extremely biased. Willie Mays was the greatest player of all time in my opinion and by clicking on this video, I thought it was going to be an honest look, but it was just some Mantle fan trying to prove his point. 3 thumbs down.
@lsdnotlbj No this is like trying to decide whether Led Zeppelin(Willie Mays) is better than the Spice Girls(Mickey Mantle). Sure, the Spice Girls sold a lot of albums and won more awards but come on. We all know which is better music.
In 1955 Mays led the league in HR, tot. bases, triples, & finished 2nd in BA (tied), Runs, RBI, and SB (24/28), yet still received fewer MVP votes than 3 others. In 1964: 2nd in TB, 3rd in RBI, 2nd in RUNS, & 1st in HR (14 more than runner-up!), but 5 players get more MVP votes. MVP recog. does not always reflect performance. Mantle struck out often. Wonder how many times he struck out with a runner on first. Mantle had great speed, but one can't GDP if he doesn't make contact.
@VolTupungato How do you gauge Larry Bird's intangibles? Mantle played in pain and on one good leg. The fact remains that Mantle, Berra and Ford carried their teams, regardless of numbers. Mays and Mantle should have both won more MVPs. Upon reflection Mantle over Mays is not easy.
I just figured out this analogy, both Mantle & Bird in their primes were the most inspiring of all the greats after WW2. For these prime years, Magic is closer to Bird than Mays is to Mantle. NOW, you can see one advantage of basketball, when Magic & Bird were on the court together.
@PADRAEG Astute observation.Bill James estimated that Mantle used 58% of his potential and Mays a little over 90%. Upon reflection, Mantle over Mays is not so easy. Keep the comments coming on other videos if you have the time.
I like Joe Di's Yankees. According to Berra, the Clipper was the best CFer he ever saw. I was the link between the 20s and the Mantle Era. I refer to Joe as the Godfather of the Yankee Universe.
I just recorded the 1952 WSC featuring Mantle in his "rookie" year. He was the last of the rugged players in ball. Though Munson seemed to carry the torch for a while as well...
Most players that played with and against Mantle and Mays give the nod to Mays as the best all0round player. That includes not only the great Ted Williams who felt Mays was not only better than Mantle but the best all-round player ever in the history of the game-- but also the Mick himself said on a number of occasions that Mays was the better player. Personally it is splitting hairs. I saw them both play in person and they were both incredible athletes.
Between 1951-64 No one was better than Mantle...Mickey was the best all around player in the game during those years....after 64 the injuries caught up with him and Mantle, Aaron, and Frank robinson became the best during the next decade....Power speed defense...But at Micks prime----No one in the history of baseball with the exception of Josh Gibson and Jimmie foxx had such raw power and all around talent.
Championships are won by teams. Teams are made up of complimentary players and a few great players. Some great players are more clutch than others. Koufax. Russel, Bird, Magic, Gehrig, Mantle etc. to name some of the winners. We know who the losers are, and the fans of the losers often discredit the great players on winning teams. It is human nature (sour grapes).
There are many players who had better careers than Mantle, however nobody had the power-speed that Mantle had. Mantle had unhuman tools, unfortunaley he was almost a cripple(1951 injury the worst) all his career, and he did abuse his body. At his best however, nobody was better all around in my opinion. However Mays,Musial,and others had better long term careers than the Mick.
I'll take Mantle, the hitter, over Willie Mays, the hitter. As a player, it's no comparison and I'm easily taking Willie.
Mickey beats Willie in several important offensive categories, like OBP, OPS+, win shares, and other categories. However, Willie was clearly the better overall player. He played the best defense of any center fielder in the modern era, and his speed was good too. Mantle was certainly not bad defensively, but he was nothing compared to Mays. And WS are won by a TEAM.
correct me if i am wrong, but mantle lost his great speed early in his career due to injuries. i will grant you the point of mantle over mays due to OB %. but once again, the championships are not won by players, but by teams. mantle over mays, sure, but not that easy. very close, i think
eqsmooth 4 days ago
baseball is a team sport. I don't get carried away with how many championships they won although mantle of course had alot to do with it. Mantle was at his best clearly better than mays.
loughran03 1 month ago
Mantle said in an interview the Kaline was better than him! Mantle was the most modest guy in the world. Check Hank Aaron on Letterman on Youtube, said that Mantle had more ABILITY than he,Mays,himself or anybody, until he was injured. More speed,power,ect The fact is that many had better carrers than Mantle, but no one had the natural ability he posesed.Hell, Pete Rose had a better carrer you could argue!
loughran03 1 month ago
@loughran03 for lived-up-to-potential, maybe others had better careers but mantle won 7 rings, should have won at least 5 mvps (won 3) on one leg. THAT'S 3 CAREERS.
MJVESSIO 1 month ago
The Mick played on much better teams than Willie. Does anyone think that the Yankees would have won less if they had Mays instead of Mantle? Please!!! Mickey was a great fielder but no one would put him in Mays' class defensively. Willie is arguably the greatest fielding outfielder ever. Plus he led in stolen bases 4 times and ran the bases as well as anybody. Finally Mickey himself said Willie was better. The Mick was great,but slight edge to the Say Hey Kid.
6retsub 3 months ago
@6retsub hypothetical nonsense. mays did not play for the yanks. dream about it. mantle was one in a million and he, berra and ford carried those teams. mays had great talent around him and couldn't beat the dodgers.
mantle's ob% was 40 points higher. mantle was a 329 hitter righthanded and a shoulder injury prevented him from hitting as high lefty. still, playing on one good leg he was unreal. if healthy there is absolutely no argument. mantle 7 rings. nuff said.
MJVESSIO 3 months ago
@MJVESSIO No contest! Useless video! Willie Mays greatest ball player to ever play the game. Nothing more to say!
mspinkytee 1 month ago
@mspinkytee ok genius. I'll delete it right away. Oh wait a minute. There is one more little thing to say- "It's about the rings, stupid". Mays had Cepeda, McCovey, Felipe Alou, Matty Alou, Hart, Perry and Marichal and could not get it done. Pathetic. Sorry kid.
MJVESSIO 1 month ago
@mspinkytee
There is a lot more to say, just not by you.
You are a superficial, greedy, all about the money, racist, uneducated, race baiting bitch.
Mays was the best statistically, I agree, but I've viewed your comments and channel.
You are a denigration to your race. White or black you are as ghetto as those spinning rims you have on your car.
Stay in school, get a degree.
eqsmooth 4 days ago
Mays had the better career. Mantle had the better peak
clash5j 6 months ago
@clash5j Mays had the better regular season career. Mantle got 7 rings on one leg. Imagine.
MJVESSIO 6 months ago
@MJVESSIO We disagree on how much post season play should matter, but I don't totally discount it either. Nevertheless, I enjoy all your videos and the work you put into them
clash5j 6 months ago
@clash5j "the work you put into them" - that statement made my day. Finally someone realizes the amount of effort it takes to make these vids. Thank you kind sir.
MJVESSIO 6 months ago
Did Mickey Maolph win those rings or was it just more a matter of the Yankees buying trophys with their big fat bloated payroll?
IMJUSTS0MEGUY 7 months ago
@IMJUSTS0MEGUY zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
MJVESSIO 6 months ago
@MJVESSIO Wow I agree with you on something!
JustinVerlander35 5 months ago
@JustinVerlander35 Hope you are good. Hope Tigers do well. All is good.
peace ~ Mike
MJVESSIO 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
eqsmooth 4 days ago
So how did you like Sey Hey at the White House the other day? Pretty great huh? I loved the great Big MC shirt he gave Obama.
I betcha Mickey didn't have a godson like Barry Bonds, huh? :)
Bonds and Mays. 1420 Homeruns. That's even more than 2 Babe Ruths! Read it and weep!
IMJUSTS0MEGUY 7 months ago
@IMJUSTS0MEGUY Barry Roids Bonds? Mantle 7 rings....Mays 1 ring. Sorry kid, nice try. "It's all about the rings, stupid"
MJVESSIO 7 months ago
Mays got everything there was to get out of his ability, was damn exciting doing it, & was great in every phase of the game. The Mick was the most talented player I ever saw on a baseball field but due to injury & his own negligence, underachieved despite the 536 HRs and the most amazing tape measure jobs you'd ever believe possible. The Say Hey Kid left it all on the field so he gets the nod. Mickey will always be my favorite player, but despite the injuries, he should have owned the record bk.
skywoof7 7 months ago
@skywoof7 Bill James said Mays used about 90% of his potential and Mantle 58%. Still with one leg Mantle has 12 series and 7 rings. Rings get the nod every time. Mantle and Berra were the 2 best players in the American league in the 50's. It's about the rings.
MJVESSIO 7 months ago
Mantles bad leg probably would have fell off playing night after night in the Candlestick cold.
IMJUSTS0MEGUY 8 months ago
If the Giants had about 10% of the Yankees revenue and a half way decent stadium to play in without what just about amounted to a wall of wind in left field, I think it would look like something like this: Mays, Bonds, Ruth (well, and Mantle somewhere way down there).
I think the championship rings situation would have looked vastly different too.
IMJUSTS0MEGUY 8 months ago
If the Giants had about 10% of the Yankees revenue and a half way decent stadium to play in without what just about amounted to a wall of wind in left field, I think it would look like something like this: Mays, Bonds, Ruth (well, and Mantle somewhere way down there).
I think the championship rings situation would have looked vastly different too.
IMJUSTS0MEGUY 8 months ago
@IMJUSTS0MEGUY you listed the could be hr kings? healthy mantle hits 800 easy. so what. it's about the rings. excuses are for losers. not you. losers in general. knowing how to win, the sacrifices to be made etc., have nothing to do with budgets, ballparks, injuries etc. Having a pathologically competitive mind is the most essential thing. Giant teams were loaded but could not beat the Dodgers. That's not Mantle's problem.
MJVESSIO 8 months ago
@MJVESSIO
Yeah yeah. And Mays probably would have hit 1000 if he had played in just about any other park. On the other hand if Hank The Launching Pad Aaron played in any other park Micky might of at least beat him.
Also Mays was known for changing games with his running. Put Micky in Candlestick and his bad leg probably would have froze off and this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue.
IMJUSTS0MEGUY 8 months ago
@IMJUSTS0MEGUY ...Maybe Mays would have hit more homers in most other stadiums, but there is no way Mays would have hit as many home runs had he played in Yankee Stadium. With center field and left-center field dimensions of 450+, Mays would have had a more difficult time hitting homers in old yankee stadium.
jstarks123 5 months ago
I wonder if listening to too much New York City media hype has played a role in this? It seems like they hate the Giants!
IMJUSTS0MEGUY 8 months ago 3
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You can have your own opinions, but remember that Mickey Mantle played in a left-hander friendly ballpark, and Willie Mays played at Candlestick Park, which was by no means a hitter ballpark-- yet Willie Mays still hit over 120 more home runs in his career.
Despite all of this, I'm sure Mickey had great respect for Willie, and Willie has great respect to Mickey.
Coastergeekperson04 8 months ago
@Coastergeekperson04 Mantle was hurt by the stadium. His power was to the alleys and he lost 15 hrs a year easy. As a switch hitter (right-handed) he was hurt badly by death valley. Mantle hit more hrs on the road than at home. Still it's all about winning. Mays used 90% of his potential and Mantle about 58%. Think about that. Yes Mays was more than great. Mantle got 7 rings on one leg. If....
MJVESSIO 8 months ago
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Coastergeekperson04 8 months ago
Mickey Mantle also lead the league in vodka drinking.
Coastergeekperson04 8 months ago
@Coastergeekperson04 And injuries and still won 7 rings. Thank you.
MJVESSIO 8 months ago
I didn't see Mays as much as Mantle growing up because the Yankees were on TV so much more in the East than the Giants. And so I was a Mickey fan. But my father and grandfather, who both lived in the Bronx, were Giants fans just because of Mays. When I finally got to see him play, it was obvious why. He controlled the ballgame in so many ways, like Michael Jordon later did in basketball.. Stats lie, Mays played for years in Candlestick Park. The Mick was truly great, but Mays was just better.
marinman39 8 months ago
@marinman39 good points but 7 rings don't lie. mays lifetime 248 in postseason with 1 hr I believe. sorry. it's about the rings.
MJVESSIO 8 months ago
HI WILLIE MAYS HERE
TheMotionMan999 10 months ago 4
@TheMotionMan999 Hey Say Hey, Mckey here.
MJVESSIO 10 months ago
Man i dont know. Mays had a bettr all around game but mantyle had the heart so u gotaa giv it to jhim there. Love th videos tho!!! Cept for 1 thing. PETE ROSE @#2 all time!!! COMEON!!!
bilbobagsack 11 months ago
@bilbobagsack Mantle 7 Rings.
MJVESSIO 11 months ago
@MJVESSIO man don h8 i said mantle was beter. i dont even know. My dad was a big fan abck in the day of all those ol players not me. he use to love watchin mays.
bilbobagsack 11 months ago
@bilbobagsack noh8....all good....nice to talk
peace
MJVESSIO 11 months ago
Mantle had more rings that Mays because he had better players around him. Baseball is a TEAM sport and there's no doubt the Yankees had better teams than the Giants all throughout Mays' career. Absolutely, Mantle is one of the all-time greats, but IMO Willie was the greatest ever!
gladdadof4 1 year ago
@gladdadof4 Where do you people come from? Mays sucked in the post-season. 248 1hr in 25 games.
Postseason success separates men from boys. Mays was surrounded with more hall of famers than Mantle. Do your homework. Mantle, Berra ans Ford carried those teams. Mays blew it. Besides Mantle was a switch hitter. Couldn't be pitched to. Mantle was the leader of the MOST successful teams of all-time. And he did it on ONE LEG. lol. Game over genius.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
If Mantle had to put in all the time Say Hey did in the frozen tundra at Candlestick Park, this video would never had been made.
IMJUSTS0MEGUY 1 year ago
@IMJUSTS0MEGUY Yankee Stadium hurt Mantle as much. His power was to the alleys. Hitting righthanded hurt more because of Death Valley. He played on one good leg. If healthy, this vid would not have been made.
7 RINGS SPEAKS LOUDLY.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
line you can control the outcume, and the game is in your hands... baseball that is not the case, because in a clutch situation mays or mantle are not always at the plate, and the ball is not always hit their way
Soriano789 1 year ago
And again, championships are a team accomplishment, and especially in a sport like baseball where all the pieces for a team are so important for success. Being a centerfielder is not like being a quarterback where every offensive play you touch the ball, and when the game is on the
Soriano789 1 year ago
@Soriano789 Again, pitcher/batter confrontations, no.3 and no.4 hitters and top 3 pitchers. Mantle, Berra and Ford are the 3 irreplaceable players. no one else on the team comes close. they get the most credit. 6 mvps for berra and mantle. could have been 8. The MOST SUCCESSFUL TEAM IN BASEBALL HISTORY. (Mantle 420ob% to Mays383ob% lifetime. that's a big difference) do your research.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO No, im not picking mantle over mays. I said if Mantle was able to stay healthy, then I would take Mantle over Mays. But, I believe if Griffey stayed healthy he would have been better than both, regardless.
Soriano789 1 year ago
@Soriano789 Silly comment. griff's very low ob%, i think 369 ,is pathetic. In the end all anyone cares about is winning. Period. Winning. "It's about the rings, stupid"- Casey Stengal
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO the GOAT (Greatest of All Time)
Soriano789 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO Because I'm saying Mantle over Mays that means I don't have half of a baseball brain? I guess SportingNews, BaseballAlmanac, have even less than half a baseball brain, not to add the many analysts like Tim Kurkjian who say that Mays was the best ever. I will say this though, if Mantle was not plagued with injuries then he would have probably been the best ever, but he was... So ask you this, is Ken Griffey Jr. in your top 5 center fielders? because if he didn't get injured many believe
Soriano789 1 year ago 7
@Soriano789 See my vid greatest mlb centerfielders for Griff jr. Experts- They don't consider rings as important as i do. that's their problem, since they're probably haters. Are you picking mantle over mays now? WINNING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN NUMBERS. ALWAYS WILL BE.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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@MJVESSIO Mays won't rank in the top 5 defensive center fielders of all time? I find that very hard to believe, the guy only had 12 gold gloves. "It's about your catcher, 3 and 4 hitter and top 3 pitchers. Every one else is complimentary." You just said that Derek Jeter was "complimentary" which as we both know is simply false. Yes, Mantle did not reach his full potential and if he wasn't plagued by injuries he would have put up gaudier numbers, but he was injured for most of his career.
Soriano789 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO because of having one or two stars, baseball takes much more than that, as was the case with the yankees squads of the 50s and 60s
Soriano789 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO
1) Who said anything about Roger Hornsby??
2) Being in the post-season on a consistent basis is not an individual achievement it's a team achievement...
3) If you ask someone who is the greatest football player are of all time, they would say jim brown, or jerry rice.. the greatest basketball player they would say jordan, followed by magic, kareem wilt etc... but baseball is much different than these other sports because very rarely do you see a team win championships
Soriano789 1 year ago
@Soriano789 Again, It's about pitcher batter confrontations. It's about your catcher, 3 and 4 hitter and top 3 pitchers. Every one else is complimentary. You must field 9 men and have a roster of 25. But in the post season players with balls step up. Mantle and Berra, Russell and Cousy did it better and longer than anyone. I'm tired of having to explain things to you.Go to baseball websites and see what non-youtubers have to say. Mays as a fielder won't rate in the top 5.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO In my all-time top 5 center fielders of all time, with mays number one, and mantle, dimaggio, griffey jr. and cobb in no particular order
Soriano789 1 year ago
@Soriano789 Anyone with half a baseball brain would take Mantle in his healthy prime as a PowerSwitch-hitting, High average, 500OB%, Dragbunting, Top Defensive Outfielder with a Powerful Arm and Leadership Ability. Mantle was estimated to have used 58% of his potential. Imagine.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO Exactly, Mantle, Berra, and Ford carried those teams, not just Mantle. And your whole it's about the rings is typical yankee fan bullshit. Championships are team accomplishments, not individual accomplishments. So because Jeter has 5 championships he's better than Honus Wagner? Or Because Whitey Ford had 6 Rings he's a better Pitcher than Bob Gibson or Sandy Koufax?? Don't let team success dictate how great one's individual accomplishments are... Mickey Mantle was an all time-great..
Soriano789 1 year ago
@Soriano789 Wake-up. Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Mantle, Gehrig, DiMaggio etc. get the most credit. Comparing Jeter to Hornsby based on rings alone is idiotic. If they were comparable in regular season numbers and skills then the scales tip to the player who handles the pressure of the post season. don't be so simplistic. you are never going to win an argument knocking winners. never. "yankee fan bullshit" is hater talk.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
Mantle was a great player no doubt. I don't think he is better Than The Say Hey Kid though. Mays was a 5 tool player he could hit, hit for power, he could run, he had the greatest arm, and he was the greatest center fielder of all time. Players like Hank Aaron, and Ernie Banks said that Mays was the best they have ever seen. Not taking anything away from mantle he too was among the best that ever lived. If he had 2 strong legs then he would have been one of the best. But, Mays is the best.
ballin648 1 year ago 2
@ballin648 "it's about the rings stupid". eveything else is garbage.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO In 1961 in the AL MVP voting 5 out of the top ten vote receivers were on the Yankees...
Soriano789 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO the team success cannot be used, especially in a sport like Baseball where there are so many contributors to a successful team. Additionally, your stolen base statistic is garbage... Mays had more stolen bases (338) than Mantle's attempts to steal (191) so its not surprising that Mays would have a lower percentage, let alone a difference of 3% (80-77). And to give you an example of how talented the Yankees were in the 60s...
Soriano789 1 year ago 2
@MJVESSIO From 1951-1962 The Yankees won 7 World Series Titles, and they weren't all just due to Mantle's great talent. Yes he was a leader of the Yankees, but let's say you put Mays on the Yankees and Mantle on the Giants, Mays would have those 7 world series titles and all the post season homers, but I wouldn't use that in my argument because getting a team deep in the playoffs consistently is not something that one guy can do, it takes an entire team to do that, so when comparing two players
Soriano789 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO I understand that you are entitled to your own opinion, but I can tell that you are probably a die-hard yankee fan, which makes your judgement on this a little tainted to say the least. To say that Mantle over Mays is an easy choice is just as ridiculous as saying Mays over Mantle is an easy choice. And your continued reference to Mantle's phenomenal post season success is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned because Mantle was a part of one of the most dominant Baseball Dynasty's ever
Soriano789 1 year ago
@Soriano789 you can't argue with success. you're deconstructing mantle's great affect on his team. you can't win. 12 pennants and 7 rings speak for themselves. period. mantle, berra and ford carried those teams. sorry kid.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
@riccardinod Teams are made up of PLAYERS. you win big because of great pitching, great defense, clutch hitting, your number 3 and 4 hitters and your catcher. Mantle's ob% was much higher than Mays. Mantle, Berra and Ford were easily the 3 most important players on the most successful teams of all time. there is no debate. you think mickey was gonna say to the press he was the greatest. don't be so naive. "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE RINGS. STUPID". Yankee stadium cost Mantle big time. RESEARCH.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@riccardinod Don't waste your time with this guy. He wants comments here so he can insult people for having a different opinion. He doesn't want to have an intelligent discussion. He's just a little boy who feels the need to berate others who are only sharing their own opinion. Logic and common sense doesn't work on this troll. He's actually kind of funny in his childish defense of debating which of these two greats are better. He needs a life.
keagleman21 1 year ago
@keagleman21 keagleman? sounds like a character from a woody allen play! WHY DO YOU KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE ABUSE, YOU MORON? This whole thing is a joke and you're trying to get others to side with you over a stupid video? you're 51? no no. more like 15. am i correct? GO AWAY AND GET A FREAKIN LIFE!!!!!!!!!
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO LOL, you just keep proving over and over again what a childish, stupid asshole you are! It's entertaining to see you lose it with person after person. What do you do when you have real problems MJVessio, cry like a baby, lol? MJVesssio, sounds like a the small-time, wussbag who gets wasted in bad mafia movies. I don't have to guess your age, because your real emotional age is here for all to see-- 5. For sure Asswipe, you have to live with yourself. That's God's best punishment, lol.
keagleman21 1 year ago
@keagleman21 merry christmas keagleman! don't forget to keep coming back...
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
@riccardinod take away mantle's rings and you can make an easy case because of mays longer stretch of high level of performance. but 4 me, regular season numbers pale in comparison to consistently good performers and leaders in post-season. credit should be given to the winners. it's not their fault the other guys teams didn't win. it's to the winners credit. credit. how much credit is the big question. besides, mantle did all this on one leg.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO TAKE AWAY MANTLE'S RINGS? THATS LIKE TAKING AWAY MANTLE'S BALLS. IT'S ABOUT BALLS AND RINGS. EXCUSES AND STATS ARE FOR LOSERS.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
@riccardinod IF MANTLE WAS HEALTHY THROUGHTOUT HIS CAREER, THERE WOULD BE NO DEBATE AT ALL. MANTLE WAS ESTIMATED TO HAVE REACHED 58% OF HIS POTENTIAL. MAYS OVER 90%. THINK ABOUT THAT.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
@riccardinod thats nuts. you don't put up the same numbers against top pitching in the postseason regularly. its about leading and winning. see 2001 WS where the yanks scored 14 runs in 7 games and almost stole it.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
@riccardinod mantle was more cost-efficient, led the most successful team EVER and did it on one leg.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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riccardinod 1 year ago
@riccardinod 7 RINGS. IN THE END MAYS WOULD TRADE ALL THE NUMBERS FOR RINGS.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
I did a study of home runs ,rbi's,runs,and on base percentage per at bats,and Mickey wins in all those crucial categories.Willie was one of the greatest,but Mickey did have the better numbers.Willie lasted longer,but was not as great as Mick.My information was taken from Baseball Encyclopedia.Mickey's oba was 512,Willie's 436.Mickey had one hr per 15 ab,Willie had 1 per 16.For rbi's-Mickey 1 per 5.3,Willie 1 per 5.7.Runs-Mickey 1 per 4.8,Willie 1 per 5.2.
bobbybrancati 1 year ago
@bobbybrancati rare when someone isn't cursing and yelling in response to this vid. nice info. plus this- 7 rings to 1. And mantle did all this on one leg.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
mays should have won the mvp in 1962. wills stole it by stealing bases like know one before. but the giants beat the dodgers in the playoffs. mays hit a couple hrs in that first game. scored the insurance run in that crazy 9th inning when the giants scored 4 runs to win 6-4. mays in his career also played shortstop , second base, and first base. i think he even might have caught in a game or 2. point is mays was versatile. he could do anything.
jackrabitcafe 1 year ago
@jackrabitcafe you are absolutely correct
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
It's a well made film, but there are too many untruths that you state that others already made clear to you. Fact is, your idol and mine, Mickey Mantle would not agree with you at all. Mick had said countless times, and many of them recorded, that Willie Mays was the greater player and that Mick was proud to take a back seat to him. Case closed.
None the less, Mantle was great. I treasure all the times I've seen him play in person, as I do Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente and so many others,
keagleman21 1 year ago
@keagleman21 "It's about the rings, stupid" Stand on yout head and analyze all you want about the dopey video. it's people like you who choose to debate this crap when the other videos i've made about racial inequality and social issues concerning baseball are ignored. you are the toddler. grow up, ignore this throw away video i made and focus on the more important videos. are you kidding?
again concerning mays, cobb, teddycakes; "it's about the rings, stupid". enough already.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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keagleman21 1 year ago
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keagleman21 1 year ago
Mays, unlike the Mick, is not measured by stats. Mays' greatness lies in the un-measurable - those moments that defy imagination and is only captured by the great sportswriters who were there.
The impossible score from first base on a bunt. His uncanny knack to throw to a base that no one ever expected and that prevented a run. His ability to slow down rounding third to draw a throw so that the batter could reach second and Mays still managed to score. He played a game no else ever did.
artemisx123 1 year ago
@artemisx123 The ability to lay down a drag bunt as a power hitter, an infielder's nightmare. The ability to inspire by limping to home plate in great pain and hitting a gamewinning hr. A managers nightmare- who to bring in to pitch to the greatest switch-hitter ever. The unrivaled ability to be the unquestioned leader on the most successful teams in the history of baseball. you write well buddy, but "It's about the rings, stupid". Mays will always come up short. "Team game" is sophomoric.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO Limping evokes sympathy, but has nothing to do with talent. Your argument seems to center around the teams Mantle played with (the "rings"). Had Mays (or Williams or others) played with such talented teams, they would have had the "rings" Mantle had. I rest my case on the opinions of those who saw both players. Mays ALWAYS comes up ahead of Mickey. In fact, only Mays is ever discussed in the same breath as the Babe for the greatest of all-time. Ty Cobb is in that mix somewhere. .
artemisx123 1 year ago
@artemisx123 Today I deal with all the morons once and for all. F@#k "teams". It's about "batter/pitcher confrontations" Players 15 - 25 are complimentary. GET IT. it's your 1 to 5 hitters, your catcher and top 3 pitchers. can u add? that's 9. Mantle, Berra and Ford are 3. mantle and berra batted 3-4. berra was a catcher. SUCCESS. OVER AND OVER. NOT BECAUSE OF KUBEK, OR LINZ OR RICHARDSON, YOU MORON. MAYS WAS SURROUNDED WITH MORE TALENT. you're just another dodger/mets/redsox jealous baby fan.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO Thanks for your reply. In case anyone was unsure, now we all know that you're a borderline nutcase. Your latest is incomprehensible, but who's surprised? Go play with your baseball cards and leave the rest of us alone. Come back when you take your meds. Poor Mickey - what a schmuck to have for a defender. Mantle deserves better. He was one of the greatest, but you'd never know it by reading this moron.
artemisx123 1 year ago
@artemisx123 great comeback moron. as I expected. you're done. sorry about your dodgers/mets/red sox. deal with it.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@artemisx123 ...Mantle's ability was NOT measure simply by stats. The guy had the confidence to drag bunt with 2 strikes, and turned it into a base hit pretty much every time. Mantle was an intimidating presence at the plate, probably the last guy any pitcher wanted to face during a crucial point in the game. There's no question Mays had the better career and was great for a longer period of time. The video is simply making the point that in their primes, Mantle was better. And he was.
jstarks123 5 months ago
@artemisx123 All true. Mays was the superior baseball mind and could do so much for the team that few others could. But on MJ's side you can cite intagibles about all great players including Mick. But indeed Mays may have been king in that area. What MJ also gets wrong is Mays out distances the Mick in most offensive and defensive categories anyway. He claims his analysis is by the "rings" Mantle won over Mays, but he sure goes to great lengths to prove an unprovable argument via stats.
keagleman21 1 year ago
Respond to this video...What he also forgets is that the Yanks forever have had so much money to throw at getting the best players from the 20's through the early 60's. When owner Dan Topping let the farm system slide, stopped putting money into the team, and the Yanks like Boston and much of the American League were too slow in getting black players-- the Yanks even with Mick, tanked and became a cellar dweller. So, it s more about money that made and broke the Yanks, not Mick.
keagleman21 1 year ago
this is a joke right
brutalblkmassta 1 year ago
@brutalblkmassta The video speaks for itself.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
Hard to find a player's single season performance that compares to Mantle's in 1956 or 1957, though Mays's 1955 compares well with Mantle's 1961, but I don't see OBP as a fail proof formula for measuring a player's value. Mays had his highest OBP at age 40 in 1971, largely because he walked 112 times. If it could, Giant management and Mays himself would have gladly exchanged the 40 year old Mays for the 30 year old version, OBP notwithstanding.
VolTupungato 1 year ago
The SF Giants of the mid 60's came very close to winning pennants on 3 occasions. In 1965, the Giants in competition with the Dodgers, Mays hit 19 HRs in Aug. alone. That Mays's team still finished 2 games out of 1st indicated that it lacked a pitcher. Mays was surly doing his part. Can't measure a baseball player's worth based on his team's success as one can in basketball, where one individual's, say, selfishness or uninspired defense influences more directly a game's outcome.
VolTupungato 1 year ago
@VolTupungato you can when you are the undisputed leader of the most successful team in basebal history. it's about the rings. everything else is just excuses. winning is the most important thing to most ballplayers, period. we're not talking about a difference of maybe 1 or 2 pennants/world series. we're talking a HUGE difference. you're defending the other side of the fence. yoiu will get nowhere. empty losing logic. at this point most youtubers get angry, call names and quit.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO I love your vids ,but Man your fandom shades your opinions. If I was an informed N.Y fan I would not brag about the jaded titles. How can you not know about the collusion between the Boston GM and the Yankees that got Ruth to NY?
How could you be proud of them using Connie Mack's money woes to make the Athletics a Yankee farm team for decades?
And it was later repeated by Charlie O. who learned the trick from Mack.
str8carter 1 year ago
@str8carter NOT PROUD OF 20'S,30'S,40'S. 70'S
PROUD OF 50'S;MANTLE,BERRA AND FORD CARRIED THOSE TEAMS AND 90-2000
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle were both great players. They were great talents. Willie Mays was a more complete player, but Mantle was better at some things. He certainly won more games and titles, but I don't see how that falls into the equation at all. It's really easy to say the 1950's Yankees were better than the 1950's Giants. No one would even debate you on that. If you are going to make an argument like this, it has to be about how they played individually, not their teams.
dancnqueensara 1 year ago
@dancnqueensara wrong. larry bird, for instance, though part of a great "team" was easily the most important player and the teams leader. aweinspiriing player. Mantle was that plus. you miss the whole point. I'm tired of having to explain this to 19yr old youtubers who think baseball started yesterday. know what I mean?
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO Bill Russell would easily eclipse Larry Bird in that department. You are really defensive, MJ and that speaks volumes. It is kind of childish of you to make the claims you have as incompletely as you have and not think that you'd get a great deal of flack. It's kind of funny all the energy you expend on your hilarious replies. You only will feed more negative feedback as others know you will react to it. Kind of silly for someone who claims to be an older guy.
keagleman21 1 year ago
"IT'S ABOUT THE RINGS, STUPID" - Casey Stengal
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
I am laughing at the argument you guys are having! Thanks for the fun.
millerbz 1 year ago
OK, I'm with you as far as getting into the playoffs, but siting playoff statistics is a bit silly. Ernie Banks has zero playoff stats; does that mean he would have performed poorly in the postseason?
millerbz 1 year ago
@millerbz Banks gets no credit for being a playoff performer period. not his fault? fine. but give credit where credit IS DUE. Give me Mantle, you take the great Banks. I know Mantle comes through. You know nada about banks in pressure games. Therefore Mantle gets credit for his accomplishments as a playoff performer. It's so simple even I 'm starting to laugh
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
This is a great video and great comparison, but continually referencing post-season sucess is an absurd comparison between a NY Yankee and a SF Giant. The Giants just didn't much postseason.
millerbz 1 year ago
@millerbz that's the whole point. Mantle, berra and ford led their teams to more success than anyone ever. they get the most credit. "It's about the rings, stupid"- casey stengal. It's not Mantle's fault SF couldn't beat the Dodgers. the burden is Mays'. Mantle &Larry Bird may be the 2 most inspiring athletes of the last 50 years. Mantle did it on one good leg. Got nothing to do with Mays. Mantle has 7 rings. he did the most on his team to earn them. Maybe if Mays walked more?
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO put mays in mantles situation and you would be saying mays is the best ever. Listen to what your saying "its not mantle fault SF coudlnt beat the dodgers". The Giants and Yankees are 2 VERY DIFFERENT TEAMS. Obviously the Yankees were a much better team but in the end of the day Mays was a better player
ballin648 1 year ago
The fact that you made this video as a response to Willie Mays catch tells me all I need to know. I'm not arguing anymore. I stated every fact that exists. You want to use non-statistical reasoning to say Mantle was better when he clearly was not. Mays team was nowhere near as talented top to bottom as Mantle's. You obviously don't understand how ridiculous your argument that titles make one player better than another player sounds even when I throw it in your face over and over. I'm done.
vaibanez17 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 In response to a catch? What the hell are you talking about? and ever hear of big-time clutch players you little kid? Larry Bird, John Elway, Bill Russel, Derek Jeter, Jerry West, Jackie Robinson, Lou Gehrig etc. These players do exist and they played at a higher level than their peers. You are a moron. Make your own videos, on your own little channel and show us all what a genius you are. You are 26 going on 15.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO I was also directed here after watching a Willie Mays catch video. It says "this is a video response to Willie Mays catch". A wise man once said "Any wise statement stands up for itself, and does not need many longwinded men spending hours defending it." So maybe if you just let the video do the talking and stop replying to everyone who disagees with you, this would go a lot smoother.
dancnqueensara 1 year ago
@dancnqueensara This vid and my two ted videos are meant to incite. I know I get sophomoric sometimes with the crazed youtubers, but I enjoy it. foolish me. but the serious comment makers hit my serious vids. appreciate your comment.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO vaibanez17 meant "The Catch" Willie Mays caught a fly ball that looked like it was going over his head in the 1954 world series. Look it up
ballin648 1 year ago
ALSO, Mickey Mantle only had 4 seasons ever with 100+ RBIs. Willie Mays had 8 seasons in a row of 100+ RBIs and 10 seasons overall of 100 RBIs. This is not close, you love Mickey Mantle and that's fine. However, you need to take account of the whole of statistics and stop going on your love for Mickey and see who the better player was. Almost every person who played in that era would tell you Mays was way better. Bill James even said Mays deserved 3 more MVPs than he won.
vaibanez17 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 Mantle did more damage when it COUNTED!!!! And on one leg.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
If Mantle was "probably" faster than Mays on the bases, why does Mickey have 153 steals and Mays has 338? Mays has a higher BA and played 4 seasons longer than Mantle. Mays has more RBIs by a lot. Mays has more home runs by a lot. Mays scored more runs by a lot. Don't bring up MVPs because we all know that MVP voting was a joke back then as it sometimes is now. Don't base whether a player is better than another on awards or titles. Of course Mantle won more, he was on the Yankees!
vaibanez17 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 Speed involves SBs, Baserunning, bunting and hitting into DPs. Mantle should have won 6MVPs. Still that's regular season. 7 rings is what it's about. Has nothing to do with Mays. It's to Mantle's credit.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
Yeah how far was it from home plate to right field? Those were some really cheap home runs in right field at old Yankee Stadium. Look at Candlestick and park factors and get back to me...
vaibanez17 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 You know very little about baseball. You're probably 19 years old and luv Bill James. IT'S ABOUT THE RINGS STUPID.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO I'm not "19 years old" I'm 26 and have been studying baseball my entire life. There is a video on youtube that shows several of the top baseball announcers saying Willie Mays is the best player they ever saw and this is in the 70's after both player's careers were over or winding down for Mays. It's about individually which player was a better player. If we're going to go with Rings as the end all be-all then Ramiro Mendoza(4 rings) is a better relief pitcher than Trevor Hoffman(0).
vaibanez17 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 Mendoza was a complimentary player for god's sakes. Stupid comparison. Mantle, Berra and Ford carried their teams, not Kubek, Richardson etc. FACT
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO Your argument would mean that: Bernie Williams(4 rings) is better than Ken Griffey Jr(0). Jeff Conine(2) is better than Frank Thomas(1). Nick Swisher(1) is better than Tony Gwynn(0). Andy Pettitte(5) is better than Greg Maddux(1), Walter Johnson(1), Bob Feller(1), Cy Young(1), & Lefty Grove(2). Scott Brosius(3) is way better than Ted Williams(0)! Do you see how stupid this sounds? If you are saying 1 player is better than another player, you have to use stats, not rings.
vaibanez17 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 MORE STUPID COMPARISONS
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO This translates to all sports. Nobody in their right mind would say that Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino was, even though Dilfer won a Super Bowl and Marino did not. You cannot be this dense. NOBODY is saying Mantle wasn't a great player, he definitely was one of the best of all time. He is just not as well rounded or great, nor did he have the consecutive great years that Willie did. Willie had a huge impact on the sport. It can't be denied.
vaibanez17 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 MORE STUPIDITY. I'll take Montana, you can have Marino and let's leave it at that.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 More stupidity. Mantle was not a lefthanded pull hitter. His power was to the gaps. Do research please. He was a switch-hitter!. He lost at least 15-25 HRs a year at the stadium. Are you for real? And again- Mantle was a BIG part of 12 Pennant winners and 7 WS Champs while playing at , according to your God Bill James, 58%! ON ONE GOOD LEG!!!!!!!!!!!
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 Yankee Stadium was only short down the lines....Mantle wasn't a dead pull hitter. The majority of his homers were hit to the gaps, which were quite a long ways from home plate. How about all the balls he hit to left center that traveled 440 feet and were OUTS?
jstarks123 5 months ago
this is extremely biased. Willie Mays was the greatest player of all time in my opinion and by clicking on this video, I thought it was going to be an honest look, but it was just some Mantle fan trying to prove his point. 3 thumbs down.
senrivlin 1 year ago
@senrivlin Calling Mays the greatest of all-time is biased. "It's about the rings, stupid."- Casey Stengal
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
@MJVESSIO Yeah, that's true, but are you a Mantle fan?
senrivlin 1 year ago
@senrivlin How can Mr. Baseball help you today?
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
This is like trying to decide if Mozart was better than Beethoven.
lsdnotlbj 1 year ago
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vaibanez17 1 year ago
@lsdnotlbj No this is like trying to decide whether Led Zeppelin(Willie Mays) is better than the Spice Girls(Mickey Mantle). Sure, the Spice Girls sold a lot of albums and won more awards but come on. We all know which is better music.
vaibanez17 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 Moron, Zep sold more albums than anyone. Comparing Mantle to the Spice Girls? Do me a favor. stay away.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
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lsdnotlbj 1 year ago
@vaibanez17 Sorry, but an insane example. Zeppelin outsold Spice by a metric ton. And what awards did they win? Most "girl powerful?"
str8carter 1 year ago
In 1955 Mays led the league in HR, tot. bases, triples, & finished 2nd in BA (tied), Runs, RBI, and SB (24/28), yet still received fewer MVP votes than 3 others. In 1964: 2nd in TB, 3rd in RBI, 2nd in RUNS, & 1st in HR (14 more than runner-up!), but 5 players get more MVP votes. MVP recog. does not always reflect performance. Mantle struck out often. Wonder how many times he struck out with a runner on first. Mantle had great speed, but one can't GDP if he doesn't make contact.
VolTupungato 1 year ago
@VolTupungato How do you gauge Larry Bird's intangibles? Mantle played in pain and on one good leg. The fact remains that Mantle, Berra and Ford carried their teams, regardless of numbers. Mays and Mantle should have both won more MVPs. Upon reflection Mantle over Mays is not easy.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
I just figured out this analogy, both Mantle & Bird in their primes were the most inspiring of all the greats after WW2. For these prime years, Magic is closer to Bird than Mays is to Mantle. NOW, you can see one advantage of basketball, when Magic & Bird were on the court together.
PADRAEG 1 year ago
@PADRAEG Astute observation.Bill James estimated that Mantle used 58% of his potential and Mays a little over 90%. Upon reflection, Mantle over Mays is not so easy. Keep the comments coming on other videos if you have the time.
MJVESSIO 1 year ago
I like Joe Di's Yankees. According to Berra, the Clipper was the best CFer he ever saw. I was the link between the 20s and the Mantle Era. I refer to Joe as the Godfather of the Yankee Universe.
I just recorded the 1952 WSC featuring Mantle in his "rookie" year. He was the last of the rugged players in ball. Though Munson seemed to carry the torch for a while as well...
Great vid!
YankeesScoop 2 years ago
Most players that played with and against Mantle and Mays give the nod to Mays as the best all0round player. That includes not only the great Ted Williams who felt Mays was not only better than Mantle but the best all-round player ever in the history of the game-- but also the Mick himself said on a number of occasions that Mays was the better player. Personally it is splitting hairs. I saw them both play in person and they were both incredible athletes.
keagleman21 2 years ago
love Mantle ,cause i'm Yankees all the way
but better ball-player All-Around,sorry ,Willie Mays, by a nose....
gunlover2010 2 years ago
Between 1951-64 No one was better than Mantle...Mickey was the best all around player in the game during those years....after 64 the injuries caught up with him and Mantle, Aaron, and Frank robinson became the best during the next decade....Power speed defense...But at Micks prime----No one in the history of baseball with the exception of Josh Gibson and Jimmie foxx had such raw power and all around talent.
greenwoodtea 2 years ago
Championships are won by teams. Teams are made up of complimentary players and a few great players. Some great players are more clutch than others. Koufax. Russel, Bird, Magic, Gehrig, Mantle etc. to name some of the winners. We know who the losers are, and the fans of the losers often discredit the great players on winning teams. It is human nature (sour grapes).
DJVMFVME 2 years ago
There are many players who had better careers than Mantle, however nobody had the power-speed that Mantle had. Mantle had unhuman tools, unfortunaley he was almost a cripple(1951 injury the worst) all his career, and he did abuse his body. At his best however, nobody was better all around in my opinion. However Mays,Musial,and others had better long term careers than the Mick.
loughran03 2 years ago
I'll take Mantle, the hitter, over Willie Mays, the hitter. As a player, it's no comparison and I'm easily taking Willie.
Mickey beats Willie in several important offensive categories, like OBP, OPS+, win shares, and other categories. However, Willie was clearly the better overall player. He played the best defense of any center fielder in the modern era, and his speed was good too. Mantle was certainly not bad defensively, but he was nothing compared to Mays. And WS are won by a TEAM.
EricAnno 2 years ago
correct me if i am wrong, but mantle lost his great speed early in his career due to injuries. i will grant you the point of mantle over mays due to OB %. but once again, the championships are not won by players, but by teams. mantle over mays, sure, but not that easy. very close, i think
avalsonline 2 years ago