Ohio Issue 2 Town Hall Forum - Are we looking to ever ban industrial farming? - Oct 19, 2009

[Eriyah]

Here is an example of truly sustainable agriculture and human nutrition:

Google this article: Algae: the Obvious Choice for Omega-3's Growing nutrition demand lead straight to the source of omega-3's by Todd Kimberly

[Eriyah]

The point I was making is, factory farms are destroying the quality of life for everyone, so why should a few have the right to destroy what we all share?

I can promise you this, the slave owners, nor the public didn't get cut any slack on how the costs of getting cotton no longer derived from slaves, they just ended the practice of slavery and let the system evolve. Slavery was never right, it was legal but it was always wrong. This situation is no different.

[Eriyah]

The Ohio Liberty Council's Motto is "Don't Tread on Me." What Maurice is really saying when he calls the suggestion of banning factory farms "barbaric and cavemanish" , is "Don't tread on my right to tread on others." Maurice, what is done to individuals in factory farms is barbaric and cavemanish.

"The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites, or women created for men." Alice Walker

[Eriyah]

Maurice: "Imposing your will upon others....is savage and barbaric"

I wholly agree with this statement. And since other earthlings, living beings we marginalize with the euphemism "livestock" are unnecessarily suffering savage and barbaric behaviors from our species, I suggest he really drill down on the implications of that statement. Is he living in alignment with his beliefs? It is cultural indoctrination that has perpetuated unconscionable complicity in savage and barbaric usury of others.

[punkinheadcharlie]

I could only stand to read five of your comments. I can tell you're a human hater. The problem with elivating animals to the level of people is that you end up devaluing human life. Do you not realize how offensive it is to compare black slaves to pigs?

[punkinheadcharlie]

*elevating

[Eriyah]

I love humans and I love animals. I would argue that devaluing animals allows us to exploit them. Respecting life does not lead to devaluing humans. To say it does is a warped view of respect. Inflammatory comparisons of pigs to blacks is obstructive in this dialog. I'm female, I also made the analogy to the exploitation of women which is another form of bigotry. Racism, Sexism and Speciesism are all wrong. That is the point. Devaluing them for their species merely makes us arrogant bullies.

[punkinheadcharlie]

I love animals too. I think they are fascinating and I love observing their behavior. But they are not equal to humans. Respecting all life equally leads to a reduction of the quality of life for humans, and it leads to things like human population control and forced abortions; in short, infringements on our freedoms and rights as outlined in the Bill of Rights.

Besides, humans are designed to be omnivores and predators. I am okay with that.

[Eriyah]

I don't think educating people to respect leads to forced human population control or abortions at all considering respect means just that. Forcing abortions or population control are oppressive tactics, not respectful tactics. Educating people helps them make responsible decisions regarding population and birth control. I'm an example of a woman who was informed early in life about population being a concern, so I chose to not have children and got myself sterilized, by choice.

[Eriyah]

If I ever change my mind about having children, there are millions of orphans out there who need a home.

As for the "designed" statement, I would put forth that humans choose to behave like omnivores. It is not necessary. Unlike wild animals who have no choice in how they survive. We have developed agriculture. And I would further debate the health benefits of choosing plants over animals and the human physiological and anatomical characteristics pointing towards the herbivorous species.

[Eriyah]

PS- I understand that even the Catholic Dominated Italy has a stable population in spite of their views on birth control that they attribute to educating their people on the matter.

Also, regarding the omnivore or herbivore, google an article called The Comparative Anatomy of Eating by Milton Mills MD.

There is significant research and studies that support a plant based diets result in healthier peoples world wide. The healthy centurions of the world, live on plant based diets.

[Eriyah]

I would concur that animals are not equal to humans in every way, clearly they do not understand many things, but they are indeed equal to us in many important ways, like their ability to receive and feel pleasure, pain, joy, despair, fear and happiness, guilt and pride etc. I'm sure if you have had a connection and in your observations of animals, you have witnessed that. Choosing to be respectful and kind instead of oppressive and destructive towards animals seems ideal and peaceful, agreed?

[Eriyah]

I've actually seen the opposite results when it comes to violence towards those at our mercy. Did you know that serial killers start on animals before they graduate to humans? Are you aware that slaughterhouse workers have a dramatically higher incidence of crime and domestic violence? Desensitizing one's self and exhibiting domination over the weak never results in a reverence for life, it always results in a more violent society. Consider the Jain monks who observe peace towards all species.

[Eriyah]

The Jain patriarch Mahavira gives a wonderful perspective of peace with the following: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torture or kill any creature or living being." Can you imagine what our world would be like if we were raised to behave in this way?

There are plenty of people living extraordinarily happy healthy lives as vegans. I have been one for 8 years. I also reversed a 30 to 50% blockage in my right carotid artery without drugs or surgery by simply eating plants.

[punkinheadcharlie]

There is a difference between "educating" people and shutting down livestock farms and forcing people to adopt a vegan diet. I have no problem with people choosing to be vegan. You have the right to eat whatever you want. But don't force your morality and your diet on other people.

[Eriyah]

Toxic waste sites that unnecessarily poison people and the environment are shut down all the time. Farmers shouldn't get off from their contribution to this. They should farm other products that don't have this kind of impact. We shouldn't subsidize maintaining this insanity. I'll happily subsidize any animal farmers cross training and facility retrofit to farm sustainable plant products that would probably generate more money and be a lot less hassle. Then no worries about animal rights.

[punkinheadcharlie]

There are health benefits from eating lean meat and fish, and health hazards from eating too much meat. There are also health hazards from eating Doritos, but you don't want to ban those, do you? Let's leave health out of it; that's clearly not the issue. The issue is whether or not we should give animals the same rights as people.

[Eriyah]

As much as the facts about flesh consumption and human health may annoy you I'm not going to drop it. All flesh products develop carcinogens call Hetero Cyclic Amenes when cooked. So while people can get some nutritional benefit from flesh, they can achieve the same from plant sources that also contain water, fiber, antioxidants, etc which flesh doesn't and never have to worry about carcinogens or the infectious bacterial/viral pathogens, parasites, antibiotics, steroids, pus, blood, cruelty.

[Eriyah]

This isn't a single issue. While animal rights stands on its own merit to be sure, there are serious human rights, sustainability, economic, national security, food security implications that are a crucial part of this equation. If water quality and scarcity effects us all, and the leading cause of its degradation and consumption is supporting animal agriculture, this needs to be corrected. If the leading cause of illness and ecocide is contributed to livestock production it affects us all

[punkinheadcharlie]

Look, I'm getting tired of arguing about this, especially since we're the only two people reading this. I am a Conservative with Libertarian views on a lot of issues. I want the government to have LESS control over individuals' lives. Just let everyone live their own lives, you know? If someon wants to smoke pot and eat bacon every day, whatever. Just don't go crawling to the government for help when you have a heart attack.

[Eriyah]

I don't know how many ways to say this so you may understand the point. Personal freedom doesn't equal personal responsibility or morality. Child molesters like to rape children, racists like to violate other races, sexists like to abuse and devalue women. Speciesists do the same to animals. Beyond animal rights are the rights of nature and the ability for all life to survive. We are destroying that because we think we can do what ever we want because we can. Might does not make right.

[Eriyah]

The bottom line is animal exploitation infringes on EVERYONE's RIGHTS and it is neither freedom or liberty but oppression, disease and ecocide for us all, including the individual animals. Entitlement mentality is a mistake. We need to live responsibly and lead by example. We've got a problem living within our means here and its cost us and others trillions in money, death and destruction for unnecessary wars so we can live wastefully. Because we think animal products are our right to exploit.

[punkinheadcharlie]

That is where you and I fundementally differ. I don't think I will ever understand your point because it goes against almost everything I believe. Personal freedom DOES equal personal responsibility. I am responsible for my own actions and my own life and the lives of my family. I am responsible for my own choices and finances. I am not responsible for the bum on the street or the stray dog. If I choose to help them, that's all well and good, of course, but I am not obligated to.

[punkinheadcharlie]

I eat meat and I fish sometimes. And that makes me the equivalent of a child molestor in your mind. You know, I don't know why I bothered commenting with you as long as I did. This time I'm really done. Goodbye.

[Eriyah]

Please, for the love of life, watch a film called Earthlings- Google it.

I know what I'm saying goes against what we ALL have been taught to believe. Empathy and compassion has been limited to mankind. It is why we are so fundamentally violent. When we devalue the lives of those at our mercy, we stifle our compassion and empathy and violate them in the most extreme ways.

[Eriyah]

Some other examples that should be governmental law, since, for the last 40 years people have ignored the recommendations that they do it: recycle, compost, reuse, conserve etc. and we are running out of space to dump or waste, toxic leaks are seeping into groundwaters and polluting environment, we are building well over 500 landfills a year in this country. Voluntary recycling has failed. The entire German nation has been recycling, by law, since 1992. The US status 18 yrs later; embarrassing.

[Eriyah]

Yet there is a rapidly rising tide of people who defy the morally reprehensible yet majority accepted social norm of animal exploitation. This society is becoming conscious that there are alternatives. They are conscious that they do not need to be the demand for cruelty towards those at our mercy for the sake of taste preference, habit, culture, religion or any other reason in modern times, or even ver 2000 years ago, the great philosophers were vegetarians. Yes, society is evolving.

[Eriyah]

In answer to Maurice's claims that banning the choice of factory farmed products is a right, to only be controlled by the market, not government, I draw a parallel to formerly acceptable practices that were forced by Government law to be banned when a small group of people became outraged by the injustice of socially acceptable ownership "freedoms". The slavery of blacks. The ownership of women. Indentured Servitude. Alas, society currently views animals as property; not sentient individuals.

[Eriyah]

When it comes to morality, an extremist position is justifiable and warranted whereas a moderate position is morally reprehensible. Tom Regan exemplified this best with his quote "When it comes to rape, I'm against it all the time, when it comes to child abuse or elder abuse, I'm against it all the time. When it comes to sexual or racial discrimination I'm against it all the time " Ben Franklin was all for liberty and moderation, but not when it came to animal rights. He was a vegetarian.

[Eriyah]

It is important to note that this board only has 1 Food Safety rep and 0 animal behaviorists. After seeing and hearing the Yes on 2 folks tout "Safe Local Food and Excellent Animal Care" ad nauseum- Using terms animal "care" and "husbandry" for Industrial farm production practices is again misleading. What farm animals are forced to endure is according to federal law legally, accurately described as cruelty, torture, abuse and neglect if done to companion animals known as pets. Not "Care".

[Eriyah]

Maurice is right, consumers have a choice, and I believe that when society starts using and receiving honest language, messaging and facts surrounding our current lifestyle and agricultural practices we will change our unsustainable, cruel and unhealthy behaviors because a truly civilized and enlightened society will demand it through social behaviors, as well as legal and economic policies.

[Eriyah]

I would challenge the benign euphemisms we use today to engender the culture of apathy instead of living in alignment with our culture's empty claims for moral responsibility, food security and social justice- or the rights of liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Lets call our "products" what they really are:

"Meat"- The dead body of someone who wanted to live.

"Dispatching"- unnecessarily killing another being for our purposes.

"Effluence"- toxic polluting bio-hazardous waste

[Eriyah]

The deceptive marketing campaigns and the pernicious euphemisms that insidiously pervade our culture and society allow people to unquestioningly maintain a pleasant fiction as opposed to any critical thinking regarding the insanity of our reality. The majority are willing accomplices in the status quo because of the fundamentally disturbing reality that people are forced to accept about their selves if they become informed on the truth behind the incessant multi-billions spent in marketing.

[Eriyah]

As a Veterinary Dr., Leah Dorman knows exactly what factory farms are and, considering that she claims to have read the report "Putting Meat on the Table", she knew exactly what I was referring to, but instead she decided it was more appropriate to mock me in this forum with questions she thought I wouldn't be able to define. They made it clear, they have every intention to stack the board with farmers, than any meaningful reform improving public food safety or animal care.

[Eriyah]

When millions of hectares and billions of gallons of water, and billions of gallons of fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, lavicides, fungicides are used predominately to raise animals to feed humans, that is an inefficient misuse of land and resources causing pollution, erosion & desertification. 70% of Corn, 80% of Soy, and 90% of Oats are fed to livestock, instead of humans. Mono-cropping is unsustainable, intensive, we do not fully understand the implications of genetic modification.

[Eriyah]

As any human on this planet, we all have a stake in sustainable practices. How people are fed must be reevaluated.

I as an informed and conscious consumer, I don't purchase products created by factory farms. Misguided government subsidies have everything to do with making unsustainable practices and unhealthy "luxury" products affordable to the unsuspecting masses.

When precious resources are finite, how is unsustainable, inefficient agriculture in anyone's best interests?

[Eriyah]

My position on this issue is founded by the following reports- The Pew Commission on Industrial Farm Production called "Putting Meat on the Table". The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization Report called "Livestock's Long Shadow, as well as the American Dietetic Association's Position Paper on Vegetarian Diets.

Furthermore, Environment Magazine and Ecology Magazine had articles citing the referenced extinction rates. The ocean's biodiversity are expected to collapse by 2045.

[Eriyah]

Eating "Luxury" foods is not an American "right". Comparing the banning of industrial farm production methods that are proven unsafe to public health, unsustainable as in contributing to biodiversity extinction and ecocide, is not taking into consideration the rights of nature, humanity and the other earthlings that share our planet. We are rapidly destroying our world. I would call that barbaric. Gluttony is not a right. Responsibility trumps personal preference.

[Eriyah]

The most sustainable, affordable, healthy, nutrient dense foods are plants. Animal based foods, eggs, dairy, animals are not only unnecessary, they are unhealthy, and a completely inefficient use of precious resources. Animal based foods by most peoples standards are considered a "luxury" and the degenerative diseases we suffer are diseases of "affluence" I would consider what has been foisted on an unsuspecting public as necessary or affluence by agricultural interests be rigorously debated.

[Eriyah]

As a USAF Veteran, having served in Desert Storm, I certainly have an interest in World Food Security and the implications to service members when Americans don't act responsibly and live within our means. I understand scientists are stating we are living in the the 6th great extinction period with 20 to 30,000 species going extinct per year primarily due to unsustainable agricultural practices. We are a world, if everyone lived as Americans do, it requires the resources of 5 Earths.