I like River Song but I do agree that the episode should have been a bit more about Hitler. It annoyed me that he was shut in a closet and we were forced to just forget about him :/
Ive always been a River fan but OMFG did this episode blow it up to a whole new level. The Mel as River thing was just brilliant. OMG I hope theyre all like this one. At first I thought Mel was annoying but by the end I loved it. The timey wimey stuff held up to the standard. Loved that Amy thought Rory was gay ha! oh I loved it and the Martha Donna Rose Throwback was cool(although SJ shouldve been in there) :^)
I used to hate River but now I've made a complete 180 and I adore her. I understand where you're coming from, but I love that she is so different for the sow that normal companion set ups and story lines. I also think that she's a badass. I didn't used to feel this way, but ever since TIme of Angels I've grown to like her.
Also, can we all just acknowledge that Moffat does not believe in character development and is constantly making them all regress? Rory is portrayed as a tolerant, understanding character one episode, and then the next he's dealing with his overwhelming jealousy over Doctor/Amy. Amy has agency and is capable and strong, and then the next she's serving as a baby incubator and this season's major plot device. It's like she doesn't get to do things anymore, stuff just *happens* to her.
How is the backdrop of this episode appropriate or interesting at all? Moffat just based it in this time period and did nothing with it, as if he was trying to be oh so clever and controversial with his titling of the episode. That's not even touching on the fact that the episode proclaimed that River Song was a bigger war time criminal than Hitler. That's not even touching on how sexist as fuck this episode was. Like, is Moffat for real? I cannot even deal with him as head writer anymore.
@lauranaut I have so much agreement in my heart with you. This is irrelevant but I am trying to be positive so I did adore "The Girl Who Waited," much to my surprise and delight (although he didn't write that episode sooo)
@belleglass Yes, really enjoyed it as well! The sad thing about amazing Doctor Who episodes tho, is that they don't often bleed together. So problems that Rory and Amy have encountered with the Doctor in the past are almost purely episodic, like I'd be very surprised if the death of older!Amy is ever brought up again in anger. I think the show would greatly benefit from addressing such complexities and the characters would fare better as well. :)
Spoilers.....So in this episode they said the Silence was a religious organization, so I'm thinking the "leader" of the Silence is like a priest a "good man"...I think that is whom River kills, the "good man" is aka the leader of the Silence. She even mentions it at the end of the episode in Luna University that she is looking for a "good man".
@garacco i think by 'i'm looking for a good man' she meant she was looking for the Doctor- she didn't know where to find him so she becomes an archeologist to search through history and pin him down... but it's a cool idea!
If us seeing River at this point in her life (Basically discovering that her name is River Song) was so important then they should have found a less exciting way of bringing her into it. That sounds weird, but the Hitler storyline could have actually gone somewhere, whereas them going to a planet or something could have been a better setup. Seems the only line that relates them to the time & setting is River's line about thinking that the third Reich was a bit rubbish.
I agree with your opinion of this episode @missxrojas, this episode showed so much promise, and bam, two minutes of Hitler and another 43 of River.
Did anyone else notice the Doctor's "rules" popping up in this episode? They're an interesting concept, but they shouldn't have been chucked in part the way through the series.
Can I ask - Is your hate for River based on the actress that plays her or on the actual character? I think the actress is great at bringing the right amout of emotion but mixing it in with utter sadness, so I think the acting's great, it's just the fundamental basics of River Song the character that I stuggle with.
id say the reason u probs never feel like they're in danger or find it too quick (like the impossible astronaut and day of the moon for example) is due to the fact they dont have long serials anymore, wish they did, but i guess thats coz the bbc only cares about attracting as many viewers as possible rather than creating good long stories for the benefit of loyal cult dr who fans
Funny how all the newspapers all got on there high horses and said "The Doctor helps Hitler! controversial", and then he's in it for five seconds, they say hi and shove him in a cupboard, end of. Heres hoping next weeks is a normal episode with the line of 'bad guy - Doctor fights - Doctor wins!' :) and no one dies, which seems to happen in every episode now, either Rory or the Doctor end up dying but theres a loophole somewhere and they miraculously make it. :)
They should have spent FAAAR more time in this season really introducing River into the story line. It felt almost contrived. I think River is GORGEOUS and she's such a badass to boot, but this episode felt quite contrived. I already said that :/
I am still on the fence as to wether I actually like River or not lol sometimes I'm like yeah she's ok today but others it's like oh go away and stop acting like you own the Doctor... lol xx
River's story feels very rushed to me which doesn't help win over fans. In fact it all feels horribly rushed now. Even the death of the Doctor shown in The Impossible Astronaut is going to be resolved this series. That could have been Matt Smith's last scene three years from now, with there actually being a regeneration at stake.
I thought I was the only one who thought that River Song's background wasn't something to care about... I didn't hate her when she came up to be a regular in the show but little by little she started to get on my nerves, and this is why... her character is too much, like, unrealistic... and I didn't buy it really, although both actresses (Mels and River) do a great job... this episode was wasteful save for Rory's moments, and one or two more scenes... it was just not the time to tell this story.
Even though I don't care about River at all, I find I'm still caring about baby Melody. It's like, I've developed such a love for Amy and Rory, I find myself caring a lot about Melody in the context that she's their child, even though I don't actually care about River.
Also, I thought it was interesting how they treated Hitler's character. He did nothing that would make you even think he was mean. He was just like "you saved myself omg" then got shut in a cupboard.
Im kind of glad Hitler was shut in a cupboard, Doctor Who is fun, having Hitler as a villain...a man who murdered 6 million people...in real life...as a terrible person, a bit tooooo heavy for Doctor Who
...aslo I agree with what you said about charcters keep dying and keep coming back so u dont feel like their in danger. I doesn't shock me like its meant to because the whole idea is getting a bit old now. Also 2 questions, 1)The Doctor left at then end of the last episode on his own, so how did Rory and Amy get home? 2) I know amy its thinking Melody will be ok cos she grows up into River but it bugs me that shes not a little more concerned abt getting her baby back, more like Gwen in Torchwood
I totally agree that this could have been a really interesting episode the DOctor always gives everyone a chance and as far as guns are concerned "the man that never would" so what would he do if he came face to face with Hitler.....lock him in a cupboard of course....no...it could have been so much better than that. I like River, i dont like the way the character is written now. The story line is getting a bit rediculous now tbh far too complicated....
The Robot Person with mini people inside TOTALLY copies the film 'Meet Dave'!
It was good, but it's been done before. I loved the flashbacks and the Doctor's new coat and the banana gun bit (slightly Sherlocky or is that just me?) But I'm a bit fed up of River and don't sympathise with her as a charactor. I also would have loved to see more of Hitler, and i think that could have been brilliant but it showed him in a slightly funny light, wheras in reality he was evil. But a good start I think.
I personally think that river is ok, but i can totally see how she could be annoying. I dont think she and the doctor have that much chemistry and the age gap freaks my mind out. I loved the but with the children and i absolutely love rory . He is about the cutest guy ever
i honestly like river song a lot. i love alex kingston and think she's a great actress. but i must agree that the writing in this episode and some of this series has been kind of...predictable when it comes to her. This episode feels rushed, and I do agree the Hitler background could of been so much more interesting. Also, I didn't like the actress who played Mels...she was just bad. I'm hoping next week will be better.
COMPLETELY 100% agree with you. River Songs character has no foundation; underneath all of the guns and violence and flirting what is there? She's not lovable in the slightest, she just doesnt feel like a real person and I feel like the series has been wasted on River Song and the adventure and plots and monsters have been pushed to the background. I was really dissapointed with Lets Kill Hitler.
What happened to the River Song from the library?! I know that that was supposed to be the 'end' of her story after her character had developed but I don't see why she's gradually become this over sexualised, annoying woman who dominates the entire plot ALL the time. I know they've based the story arc around her but it was the same with Donna and Rose and it never infringed so much on the stories of the individual episodes.
Last week on Torchwood: Gwen abducts, abuses and threatens to kill Jack in order to save her baby from human criminals.
Last week on Doctor Who: Amy slightly pouts when her one month old baby has been abducted and it seems she will never see and get to properly raise her child, or see her learn to walk, talk, smile and laugh AND learns she may be brain washed, abused and made into a killer...
When did Torchwood become the more genuine series???
I didn't know you had seen the background of the Doctor, but you care about him? What you're saying doesn't hold up, your points are so contradictory to what you've said before.
@screewee128 From watching all the episodes of Doctor Who, you get a VERY clear idea about a lot of his story, his past and his character. Maybe we don't know every detail of his past but if you have watched every series, you get an incredibly clear idea about why the viewer should care about him.
@RachMacSaysWhat I know, I have watched all the new series and most of the old series, I'm just saying that point is ridiculous because all the time, we are being told to like the Doctor, and yes, we have a reason to, but now we have reasons to like River - she's the daughter of the Doctor's companions, she's saved the Doctor's life after being brainwashed into wanting him dead, she's saved the 'Tardis team' many times, and it's hinted that the Doctor, who we love, falls in love with River.
@screewee128 The show's been going for 50 years. How much more background do you need for the Doctor? Yes, he's a complex character, but we understand his motivation and anger a lot more.
@screewee128 True. But we know about the Time War, and all the adventures he's had with companions. There's nothing wrong with a mysterious character like the Doctor, as we're supposed to see him through the companions' eyes, but the way other characters are portrayed just makes them annoying and frustrating.
I don't care about River Song, but I love Amy and Rory, so I feel through extension... if that makes sense? I don't think i could stand not liking doctor who, so I found a way for me to care about river...
55 dislikes? It's her opinion! It may not have lined up perfectly with yours, but it's not supposed to! Personally I agree with both Rosianna and Kayley but even if I didn't I wouldn't dislike it. I would probably like it, getting to see other peoples opinions, seeing their view!
BTW I love the Harry Potter book in the background :) Yes I noticed.
I don't know, I thought River was less annoying in this one. She was actually a proper villain instead of being the pretend antihero. Maybe it's just the fact that they were finally resolving things, but I liked the episode. They skipped over a lot of potential story to make way for the River "plot tumor" and the Teselecta as brilliant, they could have focused the whole thing on that, But at least finally River has some character development instead of just annoying foreshadowing.
I feel like at this point there's been so much buildup about River Song, everything that happens is kind of a letdown. I do care about River Song and her story--or at least, I have quite a lot in the past--and I was aware as I was watching this episode that we were learning a lot more about her, and that should've been exciting to me but it wasn't. They've been dangling the carrot for so long, and now they just wrapped up way too much of her story/background in one episode. It was disappointing.
i really don't understand why you dislike river so much... i kinda get that you can;t accept being told to like someone without a back story...but this is the back story - well part of it - her evolution from villain to goodie? starts here.
Agreed about hitler shut in the cupbord - that could've been so much more.
River was beautifully played in this episode. I seriously got a bad taste in my mouth after this. Talk about the STORY not how much a particular character annoys you.
River song is really growing on me. Also, I think that talking about the moral implications of killing Hitler wouldn't be the best choice for a 1 hour long show and I like how they brought Hitler into the show briefly and then raised the same questions about whether or not to kill Hitler by questioning River. That way we can discuss the same questions without appearing to rationalize or condone what Hitler has done.
Also, I'm getting fairly frustrated because I have really stopped liking Amy very much and the only character I actually like is Rory, I hate to say this, but Matt Smith is really starting to get on my nerves and the writing has also deteriorated since Russell T left.
@nikiisliving Same but switched; I only really like the Doctor now. I honestly don't understand the big appeal of Rory; he keeps randomly insulting Amy (...why) and isn't that interesting of a character imo. I'm glad he came into his own but his and Amy's relationship seems so forced that they're both currently annoying me </3 grr season 5 was loads better
I don't have any particularly strong feelings for River Song either way but what annoys me is that Amy and Rory still seem not to care about her at all and visa versa and I keep wanting to scream: "BUT SHE'S YOUR DAUGHTER!" Like you would think the fact that their daughter turned into a murderer would maybe be slightly distressing for them...but apparently not. And also, when the doctor "died" I don't understand why Amy just seemed not to care when she was so devastated the last time he "died".
I love Alex Kingston, I think she's great, but River Song - I'm not so fussed about. I think her STORY is incredibly interesting, but as a character I think she's really pushy, cocky and I don't like the way she dominates her relationship with the doctor. In fact I don't really like her relationship with the Doctor at all. When you consider the relationship between the Doctor/Rose was very sweet and you were rooting for them to get together....I find the Doctor/River relationship feels very unn
@missloisjones Exactly! I love Alex. I think she's brilliant. But River not so much. She's an archetype. A male fantasy cardboard cut out. She's there to shoot guns and wear sexy outfits and be dominerring because apparently GUYS find that sexy. I mean, even her relationship with the Doctor FEELS forced. Like they HAVE to be together. How is that romantic? The only time I like River is when she's vulnerable. When she acts like an acual human being, but those moments are few and far between.
I know what you mean about wanting the background, kind of, except I kind I plopped into the seris last (this? 6 part 1) season, an so I had to immediatly accept ALL OF THEM. I gues that made river easier for me.
Also, I think she's hilarious.
But u didn't like how this had nothing to do with hitler at all. AT. ALL.
Basically I thought this episode was very "meh". It was predictable and full of references that seemed a bit much. "Beam us up"? "Question of the Universe"? Seems like Moffat is starting to run out of ideas. I miss the Monster of the Week type episodes.
Completely agree about River. She's annoying. I also dont believe in her future relationship with Doctor and how they can get so intimate in the space of 6 episodes or however many we have left. Furthermore, it seems like they're making River's timeline really jumbled about for no reason. Its not clever or interesting.
Annoyed how they put hitler in a cupboard and never referenced him again. They missed some fantastic opportunities with this episode.
I do really like River Song and I was relieved that this episode carried on her story after A Good Man Goes to War but I can understand how frustrating Doctor Who would become if you didn't like her. A lot of girls don't seem to...
Themes of time and interference are overplayed in doctor who already, if the story line had been about the moral implications of actually killing Hitler then that would have been a bit trite. I enjoyed the episode, the River stuff is interesting, i love the puzzle elements piecing together.
On Tumblr they said the title "Lets Kill Hitler" was a red herring, and I agree. But, the title still sorta makes sense because 1 Melody said the line and 2 River was considered a "Hitler" type to the mini alien people, so it's all correlated.
And yeah, I don't understand the dislike of River, to me she's such an interesting character because she is the biggest paradox of them all and I'm just baffled by it, every time.
I get what you mean about caring about a character by watching them grow in a story line, but a huge part of River's character is that we DON'T really know who she is. When we first saw River with the Tenth Doctor, I didn't like her. I felt protective of the Doctor and didn't like this woman who just trampled all over him. However, I think that charcter is kind of necessary. The doctor is not used to be bossed around or fooled, and it's interesting to see him trumped by her.
I've watched a bunch of these TARDIStacular videos and I love them, but the River attitude keeps baffling me.
I think that part of what you guys don't like is that she's so much like the Doctor. Because in some ways, he's this arrogant sort of person who drops in with a bunch of foreknowledge and solves all the problems. So, it's like there are two alphas in the pack or something.
And you say you need a backstory, but that's exactly what you're getting. Just not in the right order.
I really like River. I liked her from day one. I've never felt like I'm being forced to like her. I think she offers insight into the Doctor as a character who will help reveal some of the mystery that revolves around him. And let's be honest, the episodes where we learn more about the Doctor are always the best ones. I feel sad for you. You seem so hung up on hating this character. Hope you can eventually look past your hatred. I've always loved your reviews, but now you're just venting.
I actually don't hate River at all, but I would have really liked to see more history/Hitler stuff. I did like the Mels bit, but I also knew that she was Melody/River.
I didn't really like River when she appeared in The Silence in the Library, but her character has grown on me. I thought that the story unfolded really neatly and was very well written. Also, when the Doctor gave River the TARDIS journal I was nearly crying.
I think your gotten to dislike a pretty major character in the New Who series, ever since the silence in the library its been obvious shes going to appear many times in coming episodes and series. shes a major staple in the Doctors story now and cant really kill her off as we already seen her death. I quiet like Alex Kingstons character and she plays it well and i never felt forced to like her. But im afraid that your least favourite Character in the new who has a long story to tell.
The only thing that really stood out for me in this episode was seeing little Amy, Mels and Rory and their friendship (I can see Amy being friends with someone like that) but when Mels regenerated I just lost interest in the episode .After watching Let's kill Hitler, I realised that I hate River, but it's complicated and I still don't get most of her reasoning behind what she does (because let's face it, just 'she's a physcopath' isn't a good enough reason).
I don't like River Song at all. And not because of her open portrayal of sexuality. Sexual character are fine. I think my problem is that there is no tention about her character at all. We know exactly where she is going and how things are going to turn out. That's just not interesting for a companion. I think her character would be better as a straight up villian. Because then some of her traits would work better, for example her ability to know as much if not more than the Doctor at times.
The whole ''Let's kill Hitler'' as a title is just the quote from Mels/River as she said it frequently. Just because it's the name of the episode, doesn't mean the plot has to revolve around it.
To say that they have never made mention of the past companions is a lie, it was in the deleted scenes of series 5 and was unfortunately cut. I like River, and always find it funny when people who have a tendency to prefer RTD's series, such as yourself, seem to be the most vocal about hating River.
I actually quite like River Song, I think shes interesting as she can jump around the timelines, which her give the extra knowledge and things. But that doesnt mean she has to be in EVERY episode, or be every character! And I found it frustrating too that suddenly there was the best friend who'd never been mentioned before even in passing, but who apparently has been an integral part of Amy and Rory's lives.
I think the episode was too scattered, you were thrown into the episode with all these expectations and then none of them fully played out and it was a completely different episode to what we were expecting. And I think because of the fact that Rory and Amy were in the robot, and River was here and there and everywhere, and the Doctor had his own little thing in the TARDIS, it seemed really confusing and over complicated for an episode to me. And it had a very misleading episode name.
I agree that it had so much potential, even with the robot, there could have been a big Hitler vs Robot wanting to kill Hitler thing. Considering if he had be killed in 1938, before WW2 and The Final Solution, there could be an argument for him being a pretty damn good chancellor (getting Germany out of the depression, getting people working (In no way am I wanting to defend Hitler)) It would be a big moral choice. But Moffat gave the media a small thing to hold, to avoid spoilers. Clever man
I have to say the hatred of river song seems like petty jealousy to me. In the same way that its always the slightly sexualised girl groups that get booted out of X Factor first or the sexy girls who get evicted from big brother first. Women just seem to hate the idea that someone could be more sexually liberated than themselves. Its a little sad because if river was a man (captain jack), I think you feel so differently and appreciate what a clever storyline its been.
@ajayrious I agree this whole River Song theme running through the episodes is getting alittle bit annoying, I mean surely the Doctor must be getting sick of her by now.. lol.
I agree with your feelings about river song - she ruined this episode for me. I loved how kick ass rory was in this; and he and amy when they both said "i love you"
I just don't understand why the doctor likes river so much - its as if he (like us) has been told that he will like her and so he does....
The part where i doctor 'died' idn't have any emotional depth for me either because i knew that he would survive somehow. The peril was lost.
I personally don't see anything wrong with River. I mean, I get why people find her a little annoying, but I don't get why you ABSOLUTELY PASSIONATELY hate her.
What im more worried about is that since river is a little like the doctor and he is supposed to die in this series there is a little open opportunity for them to kill of the doctor and have a female (river song) play his role :/
I like River as a stand alone character. But I hate the fact she's Amy and Rory's daughter. And I HATE how The Doctor has to ASK Rory permission to hug Amy.
I loved the episode only because they showed rose, martha, and donna in the tardis. Because I hate how in the new series with matt smith they never mention all the old companions or captain jack or the fact that the doctor loved rose. Makes it feel like a seperate show because shouldn't the doctor still care even though he's moved on to new companions. I also hate rivers character although I liked her a bit as mel but that didnt last long at all.
I like River okay. It depends on the episode. The more she knows The Doctor, the more I like her, and vice versa. This episode shows her as a petulant rebellious teenager who has no idea who The Doctor really is.
They pulled a couple stretches with the whole regen thing that though they've established before as possible, I thought were just a magic plot device this time. I did find it interesting that they had her go back and grow up with Amy, since that part of Amy's life wasn't a fixed point.
The only place I've ever seen distaste for River is in the comment section of these videos :/. Personally, I love her, but I understand that everyone has their own opinions
Despite my personal distaste for River Song, I loved this episode. Maybe it was just getting a glimpse of Rose; I don't know. I adored seeing young Amy and Rory, and I quite liked younger River. It just worked for me. I would've appreciated some actual Hitler-killing, however.
Seriously, they should just rename the show "River Song," since it's not about The Doctor anymore. And they never wrapped up the red herring storyline (which was the name of the damn episode!!!!).
I love River. I really do. No idea why, I just love that there is someone who is just as crazy and impulsive as the Doctor and I think they're perfect together :)
I like River better in this season than in the past, but I'm still not a huge fan of her. This episode just felt very different to me, and I felt like it wasn't all that cohesive. Hitler seemed kind of pointless when the entire thing was advertised as all about him. :P
I used to really want to know about River but all of the hype and push to like her has gotten highly annoying.
As for the acknowledgement of the other characters, I loved it. I was so happy to see the Doctor react to them but at the same time I felt it was just another pathetic ploy to draw back in fans that had been upset about Moffat's complete disregard for them.
Overall, I really didn't care for the episode. I think this past season has been disappointing.
I cannot stand River at all. I actually liked the pyschopathic version of her better than the actual River. It's a shame that my favorite parts of the episodes are young Rory, Rose/Martha/Donna shoutouts, but I really was just happy to watch this episode
Get over yourself. They've given us plenty of backround on river. You just made a decision the first time she was introduced and have stubbornly stuck to it ever since even though she has proved her worth.
I completely agree. After this episode I felt so disappointed afterwards because I was looking forward to watching Doctor Who again but then it was a really uninteresting episode. I don't like River either, and I was just cringing at the bits with her. I'm actually suprised by how many people really liked it!
personally i just can't wait til it becomes "Dr Who" again and not "The Doctor and the Companions" this ain't to say that i don't like Amy, Rory, and River but i think they give too many story lines to them
I hope there's going to be some sort of flashback to the summer the Doctor spent looking for Melody, because they threw us straight into the plot and, I was talking to my housemate about this, they condensed a bunch of ideas and plot lines that could be better explained in separate episodes into this one episode. And I'm fine with River, but this is quickly becoming "The River Show" where every episode has to do with the BIG mystery, which is shrouded in an enigma.
@dianasof I just feel like Moffatt has been given too much free reign for his ideas and he wants to cover all of this ground at the same time. I don't know, I hope the next episode will change my opinions.
I think River Song has been developed into a very likeable character. More so in this season. I feel like we are beginning to know who she is and how tragic her story is. What I didn't like is how rushed this story felt. Even the answers we were getting about river I think could have been more effectively written. I feel like it was a sloppy script and didn't do justice to the character. should have had more ww2 and they need to stop killing everyone all the time.
One of my first thoughts, that I still kinda have, is this sneaky suspicion that Moffat had this brain crack idea of the Doctor saying "You named your daughter... after your daughter", wet himself with how clever that line was, and then invented Mels and wrote the rest of the episode simply to create the circumstances for that line to be said...
I felt like they should have explored Mels more as a character before she had the regeneration into River Song. We have been getting River's story backwards and it's hard to care for a character when we get to know her in reverse. I hope that we get more development of River as a developing character so we can finally actually know what motivates her.
@topher208 I agree with you there. I was actually quite interested in seeing some pre River Melody but instead she jumped straight into being River. I would have liked for Mels to stick around a bit longer and maybe even get another Melody between her and River. It makes her having regenerations feel a bit wasted if the moment we meet her again she is done regenerating.
All I ever hear from you is River is ruining it. If that's the case I recommend not watching the rest of this season. You might be disappointed. I loved River in this episode. Kingston did a great job. She's a strong female character which I like and I think that's why people don't like her. She's a female Jack. River is supposed to be a mystery due to her timeline. She's probably going to be a great companion. Also I think you're a bit of a Rory fangirl. Don't hate the player, Hate the game.
@soultaker30 Can't say I agree with you there. The mystery of River is getting smaller and smaller and she is exactly the same. The interest I had in her as a character was how she became River. This episode has just said "she has always been like this even before meeting The Doctor" and that has destroyed my interest in her story.
@GaiashKetoji I think River had sooooooooo much potential as a character (I REALLY like her personality) *and* as a plot point but Moff has apparently 100% ruined her story. I mean, she had SO much potential. *So* much. And now she's just... annoying and confusing in an uninteresting way, in the span of one crappy episode.
@belleglass I really liked the concept of River but now that all the big mysteries have been revealed I have to admit they're a bit anti-climactic. We barely get any of her as Melody Pond, we never get a point when she doesn't really know The Doctor, her reason for knowing how to fly the TARDIS was bland and so soon after learning she can regenerate she turns into River and can't do it any more. It is like everything I found interesting about her went away.
@GaiashKetoji Yes, I agree. I feel that as the writing for River-the-mystery revealed more about her, the writing for River-the-character should have gotten stronger; instead, the writing destroyed a lot of her appeal by giving her little to no character development in face of the (crappy, imo) answer to some of her mysteries. Such a shame, I was a huge River fan when she appeared in Series 4 & 5, and Alex is great. Hope they at least try to develop Melody a little more... :/
@GaiashKetoji Rory is awesome but he isn't all I want to see in an ep. Most of last season and a lot of this season was Rory and Amy's relationship. So complaining of not enough Rory or that River is blocking Rory's light is kinda ridiculous. And yes River's mystery is getting smaller but that doesn't make her any less interesting as a character. I mean we knew all about the other companions but still they're loved. I think Steven Moffat will come up with more surprises. He is known for it.
@soultaker30 What I found interesting about River was seeing how different she'd be when she didn't know The Doctor. This episode shows that she was always the same River we've seen since her first appearence.
The fact is I find River as a character to be boring. With the one thing that interested me about her gone there is nothing interesting about her whatsoever.
@GaiashKetoji You're more then welcomed to your opinion of her because I doubt i'll sway you. However I can still see her as an intriguing character. She still has to deal with fighting the brain washing and her feelings for the Doctor. I wonder what the more current River is doing. Her timeline can't be all backwards to the Doctor or else you wouldn't ever find out how she kills him and ends up in jail. If it isn't too much trouble at least remain open to what Steven Moffat has in store. : )
@soultaker30 That's more of a story forshadowing than mystery about the character. Before when there was a chance she could have been a different person it was interesting but now they actually took away the mystery by outright saying "River kills him" after revealing that River never was any different.
You speak my mind! I really want to like River Song and everyone around me seems to, but I just find what they do with her and because of her (in reference to storyline) is always disappointing. I finally got over the last episode and how she's Melody Pond, but here they had a really good chance to go deeper into her past and the way Rory and Amy deal with her absence, but instead it was THIS. I just felt like it was a missed opportunity. At this point, I'm ready to entirely move on from River.
i think river is the shit! one of my favorite characters by far because I don't know everything about her and it excites me to want to find out more. I personally want to see her story line grow and then we will all see how she connects with everything and her affect on the doctor in the future..
I really didn't like Mels. I didn't like how she was just thrown in there and had never been mentioned before. It felt like the entire episode would end up being an "oh that didn't really happen, you were just imagining it" type of episode. I would have loved to have gone more into I do understand why they took such a long break as well. It en the history of the time period as well.ded on a huge River Song storyline and came back with a huge River Song storyline.
it's like when you meet someone at a party and you don't know them but they want to tell you all about themselves. why should you care? well who knows, maybe you'll end up getting close to that person one day so giving them time isn't going to hurt. i think everyone just needs to be a little more open-minded to the story and accept that their questions aren't going to be answered until moffat wants to answer them.
not to mention river knows stuff that the doctor doesn't and everyone expects the doctor to know things and that ticks people off too.
I like river because the character and her story forces people to think in a way that they normally wouldn't. it's the fact that we're all so impatient and we want this instant gratification of knowing exactly what's going on, who she is and why these people want the doctor dead.
i don't think that they expect you to care about river song. like you said you need background to care about someone and we're getting her background now so yeah. I think the main thing that really pisses people off about river is she's a character that's in a way demands respect but you don't know why yet. i think the things she did in this episode were pretty cool although i thought when she first appeared her exchange with the doctor was cheesy.
i was upset when mels regenerated into river because i really loved mels i think she would have made an awsome companion but im glad in some weird doctor who way that amy got to raise her daughter afterall
You know, I care about River and I find her interesting (so I don't really understand the hate for her, but I totally respect your opinion). I still think this episode wasn't handled well though. I think there is a bit too much emphasis on River and her story. They could have done more with the Hitler storyline and everything. That's why I liked the stories in America, because River was there but it wasn't all about her. But I still enjoyed the episode, especially the flashbacks.
...Then once the Doctor had saved the baby and brought it back in the final episode then reveal would have been more rewarding for us the audience, as well as the characters, as all the tension and danger in the story arc, not to mention the audiences time watching the show, would have been worth it. Anyway, that's just my view lol.
...If the reveal had been delyaed until the the end of the series six then the tension to save the baby would be there throughout the remaing episodes so River could keep up the ephaisis on saving it while we'd be seeing the Doctor risking life and limb to do so and us, the audience, as well as the characters would be asking 'all the time why's this baby so important?!
...As it is the dramatic teason is lost because we know that the baby is River before the Doctor starts his search so therefore we already know everything is going to be ok so..where's the dramatic tension?
The whole bringing people back to life thing doesn't really fly with me. Like you said, it takes away your apprehensiveness because you know that even if they die, some stupid loophole will bring them back to life and it will be all fine and dandy. I was so excited to see what they did with Hitler, and you really only saw him for like 10 seconds. Overall, this episode was dissapointing.
I personaly have an issue with timing of the revelation that the baby is River Song. For me that should have been saved until AFTER the Doctor had saved the baby and returned it to Rory and Amy at the end of series six. That way, at least for me, it would ave been a much better pay off and satisfying conclusion.
yeah when they showed Rose, Martha, and Donna, with the BIG GUILT, that was nice and cool. I didn't really get why he needed the voice interface though. That was a bit weird. And yeah, I felt that they could've done a lot more with hitler/WWII and or the minipeople. It just became a whole set up for River which they then trashed cause she's the center.
@tehCHARISSARD well imagine that youve been poisoned and youre dying. youre going to struggle to run around a ship that needs 6 pilots to control it. so he used it to give him motivation while struggling with severe pain. he even said "i can be brave for you" :)
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The64v 2 weeks ago
I like River Song but I do agree that the episode should have been a bit more about Hitler. It annoyed me that he was shut in a closet and we were forced to just forget about him :/
jujumagumbo12 4 months ago
@wvboarder2005, I agree with you (and Rosianna) that it was cool to see the previous companions, but unfortunately Sarah Jane's dead :(
HardhatJelloXenon 5 months ago
Ive always been a River fan but OMFG did this episode blow it up to a whole new level. The Mel as River thing was just brilliant. OMG I hope theyre all like this one. At first I thought Mel was annoying but by the end I loved it. The timey wimey stuff held up to the standard. Loved that Amy thought Rory was gay ha! oh I loved it and the Martha Donna Rose Throwback was cool(although SJ shouldve been in there) :^)
wvboarder2005 5 months ago
I used to hate River but now I've made a complete 180 and I adore her. I understand where you're coming from, but I love that she is so different for the sow that normal companion set ups and story lines. I also think that she's a badass. I didn't used to feel this way, but ever since TIme of Angels I've grown to like her.
humiliat3dGrape 5 months ago
I hate River.
darkgreentunic 5 months ago 2
@darkgreentunic Well then you're gonna hate the name of the Series Six finale: The Wedding of River Song.
Yep. That day we've all been dreading may be here. Do you hear that? *listens* That's the sound of my love for this show dying.
RnDFoever25 5 months ago
I like mels more than river
SpikeAndCherryCheek 5 months ago
Also, can we all just acknowledge that Moffat does not believe in character development and is constantly making them all regress? Rory is portrayed as a tolerant, understanding character one episode, and then the next he's dealing with his overwhelming jealousy over Doctor/Amy. Amy has agency and is capable and strong, and then the next she's serving as a baby incubator and this season's major plot device. It's like she doesn't get to do things anymore, stuff just *happens* to her.
lauranaut 5 months ago
How is the backdrop of this episode appropriate or interesting at all? Moffat just based it in this time period and did nothing with it, as if he was trying to be oh so clever and controversial with his titling of the episode. That's not even touching on the fact that the episode proclaimed that River Song was a bigger war time criminal than Hitler. That's not even touching on how sexist as fuck this episode was. Like, is Moffat for real? I cannot even deal with him as head writer anymore.
lauranaut 5 months ago
@lauranaut I have so much agreement in my heart with you. This is irrelevant but I am trying to be positive so I did adore "The Girl Who Waited," much to my surprise and delight (although he didn't write that episode sooo)
belleglass 5 months ago
@belleglass Yes, really enjoyed it as well! The sad thing about amazing Doctor Who episodes tho, is that they don't often bleed together. So problems that Rory and Amy have encountered with the Doctor in the past are almost purely episodic, like I'd be very surprised if the death of older!Amy is ever brought up again in anger. I think the show would greatly benefit from addressing such complexities and the characters would fare better as well. :)
lauranaut 5 months ago
Spoilers.....So in this episode they said the Silence was a religious organization, so I'm thinking the "leader" of the Silence is like a priest a "good man"...I think that is whom River kills, the "good man" is aka the leader of the Silence. She even mentions it at the end of the episode in Luna University that she is looking for a "good man".
garacco 5 months ago
@garacco i think by 'i'm looking for a good man' she meant she was looking for the Doctor- she didn't know where to find him so she becomes an archeologist to search through history and pin him down... but it's a cool idea!
iliveinatardis 5 months ago
So are you saying you don't like River Song?
omegafighters 5 months ago
I love River.
mysticmegthepeg 5 months ago
I think Alex is great, but they give her so much attention.
SamarkandChan 6 months ago
THANK GOD SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME! I tottally agree with with river song, great reaction video
GalifrayForever97 6 months ago
If us seeing River at this point in her life (Basically discovering that her name is River Song) was so important then they should have found a less exciting way of bringing her into it. That sounds weird, but the Hitler storyline could have actually gone somewhere, whereas them going to a planet or something could have been a better setup. Seems the only line that relates them to the time & setting is River's line about thinking that the third Reich was a bit rubbish.
PurpleFunnyChocolate 6 months ago
I agree, I hate River. She just ruins the series for me. :(
sydneyb79752 6 months ago
I always eat Fish Fingers and Custard when watching doctor who.
tiptopknot 6 months ago
@tiptopknot if that is true, then you are a really cool person!
iliveinatardis 5 months ago
I agree with your opinion of this episode @missxrojas, this episode showed so much promise, and bam, two minutes of Hitler and another 43 of River.
Did anyone else notice the Doctor's "rules" popping up in this episode? They're an interesting concept, but they shouldn't have been chucked in part the way through the series.
NatalieZenaLouise 6 months ago
Yeah, I never feel like they are in any real danger anymore either.
MMasllove516MM 6 months ago
Can I ask - Is your hate for River based on the actress that plays her or on the actual character? I think the actress is great at bringing the right amout of emotion but mixing it in with utter sadness, so I think the acting's great, it's just the fundamental basics of River Song the character that I stuggle with.
PurpleFunnyChocolate 6 months ago
id say the reason u probs never feel like they're in danger or find it too quick (like the impossible astronaut and day of the moon for example) is due to the fact they dont have long serials anymore, wish they did, but i guess thats coz the bbc only cares about attracting as many viewers as possible rather than creating good long stories for the benefit of loyal cult dr who fans
jhibbitt1 6 months ago
Funny how all the newspapers all got on there high horses and said "The Doctor helps Hitler! controversial", and then he's in it for five seconds, they say hi and shove him in a cupboard, end of. Heres hoping next weeks is a normal episode with the line of 'bad guy - Doctor fights - Doctor wins!' :) and no one dies, which seems to happen in every episode now, either Rory or the Doctor end up dying but theres a loophole somewhere and they miraculously make it. :)
0uterHaven 6 months ago
They should have spent FAAAR more time in this season really introducing River into the story line. It felt almost contrived. I think River is GORGEOUS and she's such a badass to boot, but this episode felt quite contrived. I already said that :/
c00lwatter 6 months ago
I am still on the fence as to wether I actually like River or not lol sometimes I'm like yeah she's ok today but others it's like oh go away and stop acting like you own the Doctor... lol xx
BertAndErnie93 6 months ago
@BertAndErnie93 Lmao Totally feel the same way.
RnDFoever25 6 months ago
River's story feels very rushed to me which doesn't help win over fans. In fact it all feels horribly rushed now. Even the death of the Doctor shown in The Impossible Astronaut is going to be resolved this series. That could have been Matt Smith's last scene three years from now, with there actually being a regeneration at stake.
rocklee1397 6 months ago
I thought Rory was great in this episode!
uponastratocumulus 6 months ago
I thought I was the only one who thought that River Song's background wasn't something to care about... I didn't hate her when she came up to be a regular in the show but little by little she started to get on my nerves, and this is why... her character is too much, like, unrealistic... and I didn't buy it really, although both actresses (Mels and River) do a great job... this episode was wasteful save for Rory's moments, and one or two more scenes... it was just not the time to tell this story.
GatitaMica 6 months ago
Even though I don't care about River at all, I find I'm still caring about baby Melody. It's like, I've developed such a love for Amy and Rory, I find myself caring a lot about Melody in the context that she's their child, even though I don't actually care about River.
Also, I thought it was interesting how they treated Hitler's character. He did nothing that would make you even think he was mean. He was just like "you saved myself omg" then got shut in a cupboard.
Kouin 6 months ago
Im kind of glad Hitler was shut in a cupboard, Doctor Who is fun, having Hitler as a villain...a man who murdered 6 million people...in real life...as a terrible person, a bit tooooo heavy for Doctor Who
Timeforthaunted 6 months ago
...aslo I agree with what you said about charcters keep dying and keep coming back so u dont feel like their in danger. I doesn't shock me like its meant to because the whole idea is getting a bit old now. Also 2 questions, 1)The Doctor left at then end of the last episode on his own, so how did Rory and Amy get home? 2) I know amy its thinking Melody will be ok cos she grows up into River but it bugs me that shes not a little more concerned abt getting her baby back, more like Gwen in Torchwood
Jinx903 6 months ago
I totally agree that this could have been a really interesting episode the DOctor always gives everyone a chance and as far as guns are concerned "the man that never would" so what would he do if he came face to face with Hitler.....lock him in a cupboard of course....no...it could have been so much better than that. I like River, i dont like the way the character is written now. The story line is getting a bit rediculous now tbh far too complicated....
Jinx903 6 months ago
The thing with Steven Moffatt is that he's like the Doctor, remember rule 1. The 'Doctor' lies, even in episode titles.
dominictemple 6 months ago
I'll like her when she's in an episode and doesn't say "Hello Sweetie".
MsArBeee 6 months ago
The Robot Person with mini people inside TOTALLY copies the film 'Meet Dave'!
It was good, but it's been done before. I loved the flashbacks and the Doctor's new coat and the banana gun bit (slightly Sherlocky or is that just me?) But I'm a bit fed up of River and don't sympathise with her as a charactor. I also would have loved to see more of Hitler, and i think that could have been brilliant but it showed him in a slightly funny light, wheras in reality he was evil. But a good start I think.
iliveinatardis 6 months ago
I personally think that river is ok, but i can totally see how she could be annoying. I dont think she and the doctor have that much chemistry and the age gap freaks my mind out. I loved the but with the children and i absolutely love rory . He is about the cutest guy ever
Makeawishbecometrue 6 months ago
i honestly like river song a lot. i love alex kingston and think she's a great actress. but i must agree that the writing in this episode and some of this series has been kind of...predictable when it comes to her. This episode feels rushed, and I do agree the Hitler background could of been so much more interesting. Also, I didn't like the actress who played Mels...she was just bad. I'm hoping next week will be better.
lovelyspringweather 6 months ago
Totally agree.
blackdragonrider3 6 months ago
I agree with everything you said.
hpiznxt2myheart 6 months ago
COMPLETELY 100% agree with you. River Songs character has no foundation; underneath all of the guns and violence and flirting what is there? She's not lovable in the slightest, she just doesnt feel like a real person and I feel like the series has been wasted on River Song and the adventure and plots and monsters have been pushed to the background. I was really dissapointed with Lets Kill Hitler.
izblu42 6 months ago
What happened to the River Song from the library?! I know that that was supposed to be the 'end' of her story after her character had developed but I don't see why she's gradually become this over sexualised, annoying woman who dominates the entire plot ALL the time. I know they've based the story arc around her but it was the same with Donna and Rose and it never infringed so much on the stories of the individual episodes.
RachMacSaysWhat 6 months ago
Last week on Torchwood: Gwen abducts, abuses and threatens to kill Jack in order to save her baby from human criminals.
Last week on Doctor Who: Amy slightly pouts when her one month old baby has been abducted and it seems she will never see and get to properly raise her child, or see her learn to walk, talk, smile and laugh AND learns she may be brain washed, abused and made into a killer...
When did Torchwood become the more genuine series???
NyderOfSkaro 6 months ago
Hypersexualised. Thats a perfect way to describe her. She doesn't fit in the non sexual world of Doctor Who.
She reminds me of Vala in Stargate SG-1. Brought in to create sexual tension.
RogueBlueJay 6 months ago
I didn't know you had seen the background of the Doctor, but you care about him? What you're saying doesn't hold up, your points are so contradictory to what you've said before.
screewee128 6 months ago 3
@screewee128 From watching all the episodes of Doctor Who, you get a VERY clear idea about a lot of his story, his past and his character. Maybe we don't know every detail of his past but if you have watched every series, you get an incredibly clear idea about why the viewer should care about him.
RachMacSaysWhat 6 months ago
@RachMacSaysWhat I know, I have watched all the new series and most of the old series, I'm just saying that point is ridiculous because all the time, we are being told to like the Doctor, and yes, we have a reason to, but now we have reasons to like River - she's the daughter of the Doctor's companions, she's saved the Doctor's life after being brainwashed into wanting him dead, she's saved the 'Tardis team' many times, and it's hinted that the Doctor, who we love, falls in love with River.
screewee128 6 months ago
@screewee128 The show's been going for 50 years. How much more background do you need for the Doctor? Yes, he's a complex character, but we understand his motivation and anger a lot more.
InfiniteBox 3 months ago
@InfiniteBox And throughout all those years, he's still remained an enigmatic mystery to the viewer.
screewee128 3 months ago
@screewee128 True. But we know about the Time War, and all the adventures he's had with companions. There's nothing wrong with a mysterious character like the Doctor, as we're supposed to see him through the companions' eyes, but the way other characters are portrayed just makes them annoying and frustrating.
InfiniteBox 3 months ago
i don't not like river song. however i did not care for her in this episode.
I overall would give the episode a big thumbs down, unlike this video which is gets the thumb of approval!
DeborahFact 6 months ago
I don't care about River Song, but I love Amy and Rory, so I feel through extension... if that makes sense? I don't think i could stand not liking doctor who, so I found a way for me to care about river...
monkeyaround92 6 months ago
55 dislikes? It's her opinion! It may not have lined up perfectly with yours, but it's not supposed to! Personally I agree with both Rosianna and Kayley but even if I didn't I wouldn't dislike it. I would probably like it, getting to see other peoples opinions, seeing their view!
BTW I love the Harry Potter book in the background :) Yes I noticed.
TheDoctorLovesPotter 6 months ago
I don't know, I thought River was less annoying in this one. She was actually a proper villain instead of being the pretend antihero. Maybe it's just the fact that they were finally resolving things, but I liked the episode. They skipped over a lot of potential story to make way for the River "plot tumor" and the Teselecta as brilliant, they could have focused the whole thing on that, But at least finally River has some character development instead of just annoying foreshadowing.
Sairin13 6 months ago
i have hated river from the start but this made me like her more but on the other hand i wish they at least tried to kill hitler
celebrian94 6 months ago
I feel like at this point there's been so much buildup about River Song, everything that happens is kind of a letdown. I do care about River Song and her story--or at least, I have quite a lot in the past--and I was aware as I was watching this episode that we were learning a lot more about her, and that should've been exciting to me but it wasn't. They've been dangling the carrot for so long, and now they just wrapped up way too much of her story/background in one episode. It was disappointing.
whitefluffyhat 6 months ago
i really don't understand why you dislike river so much... i kinda get that you can;t accept being told to like someone without a back story...but this is the back story - well part of it - her evolution from villain to goodie? starts here.
Agreed about hitler shut in the cupbord - that could've been so much more.
daleKdAaN 6 months ago
River was beautifully played in this episode. I seriously got a bad taste in my mouth after this. Talk about the STORY not how much a particular character annoys you.
someone332 6 months ago 4
River song is really growing on me. Also, I think that talking about the moral implications of killing Hitler wouldn't be the best choice for a 1 hour long show and I like how they brought Hitler into the show briefly and then raised the same questions about whether or not to kill Hitler by questioning River. That way we can discuss the same questions without appearing to rationalize or condone what Hitler has done.
TARDISsounds 6 months ago
Also, I'm getting fairly frustrated because I have really stopped liking Amy very much and the only character I actually like is Rory, I hate to say this, but Matt Smith is really starting to get on my nerves and the writing has also deteriorated since Russell T left.
nikiisliving 6 months ago
@nikiisliving Same but switched; I only really like the Doctor now. I honestly don't understand the big appeal of Rory; he keeps randomly insulting Amy (...why) and isn't that interesting of a character imo. I'm glad he came into his own but his and Amy's relationship seems so forced that they're both currently annoying me </3 grr season 5 was loads better
belleglass 6 months ago
I don't have any particularly strong feelings for River Song either way but what annoys me is that Amy and Rory still seem not to care about her at all and visa versa and I keep wanting to scream: "BUT SHE'S YOUR DAUGHTER!" Like you would think the fact that their daughter turned into a murderer would maybe be slightly distressing for them...but apparently not. And also, when the doctor "died" I don't understand why Amy just seemed not to care when she was so devastated the last time he "died".
nikiisliving 6 months ago
*feels very unnatural and uncomfortable!
missloisjones 6 months ago
I love Alex Kingston, I think she's great, but River Song - I'm not so fussed about. I think her STORY is incredibly interesting, but as a character I think she's really pushy, cocky and I don't like the way she dominates her relationship with the doctor. In fact I don't really like her relationship with the Doctor at all. When you consider the relationship between the Doctor/Rose was very sweet and you were rooting for them to get together....I find the Doctor/River relationship feels very unn
missloisjones 6 months ago
@missloisjones Exactly! I love Alex. I think she's brilliant. But River not so much. She's an archetype. A male fantasy cardboard cut out. She's there to shoot guns and wear sexy outfits and be dominerring because apparently GUYS find that sexy. I mean, even her relationship with the Doctor FEELS forced. Like they HAVE to be together. How is that romantic? The only time I like River is when she's vulnerable. When she acts like an acual human being, but those moments are few and far between.
RnDFoever25 6 months ago
I know what you mean about wanting the background, kind of, except I kind I plopped into the seris last (this? 6 part 1) season, an so I had to immediatly accept ALL OF THEM. I gues that made river easier for me.
Also, I think she's hilarious.
But u didn't like how this had nothing to do with hitler at all. AT. ALL.
4evaGTB 6 months ago
River is awesome, stfu hater
dancingmonkey08 6 months ago
I was really starting to like River, until this episode, and then she was beyond annoying, and honestly, Amy's working on my nerves as well.
lookdownimthere 6 months ago
Basically I thought this episode was very "meh". It was predictable and full of references that seemed a bit much. "Beam us up"? "Question of the Universe"? Seems like Moffat is starting to run out of ideas. I miss the Monster of the Week type episodes.
whatallison 6 months ago
Completely agree about River. She's annoying. I also dont believe in her future relationship with Doctor and how they can get so intimate in the space of 6 episodes or however many we have left. Furthermore, it seems like they're making River's timeline really jumbled about for no reason. Its not clever or interesting.
Annoyed how they put hitler in a cupboard and never referenced him again. They missed some fantastic opportunities with this episode.
DW is always amazing, but River's stupid
virtualpigmaster 6 months ago
I do really like River Song and I was relieved that this episode carried on her story after A Good Man Goes to War but I can understand how frustrating Doctor Who would become if you didn't like her. A lot of girls don't seem to...
90JCR 6 months ago
Completely with you on the Rive Song thing. I'm glad someone else feels the same way :)
theflyingletters 6 months ago
Themes of time and interference are overplayed in doctor who already, if the story line had been about the moral implications of actually killing Hitler then that would have been a bit trite. I enjoyed the episode, the River stuff is interesting, i love the puzzle elements piecing together.
jackeyramone 6 months ago
On Tumblr they said the title "Lets Kill Hitler" was a red herring, and I agree. But, the title still sorta makes sense because 1 Melody said the line and 2 River was considered a "Hitler" type to the mini alien people, so it's all correlated.
And yeah, I don't understand the dislike of River, to me she's such an interesting character because she is the biggest paradox of them all and I'm just baffled by it, every time.
ntcssj 6 months ago
I get what you mean about caring about a character by watching them grow in a story line, but a huge part of River's character is that we DON'T really know who she is. When we first saw River with the Tenth Doctor, I didn't like her. I felt protective of the Doctor and didn't like this woman who just trampled all over him. However, I think that charcter is kind of necessary. The doctor is not used to be bossed around or fooled, and it's interesting to see him trumped by her.
allystandsforawesome 6 months ago
I've watched a bunch of these TARDIStacular videos and I love them, but the River attitude keeps baffling me.
I think that part of what you guys don't like is that she's so much like the Doctor. Because in some ways, he's this arrogant sort of person who drops in with a bunch of foreknowledge and solves all the problems. So, it's like there are two alphas in the pack or something.
And you say you need a backstory, but that's exactly what you're getting. Just not in the right order.
helado1316 6 months ago 2
I really like River. I liked her from day one. I've never felt like I'm being forced to like her. I think she offers insight into the Doctor as a character who will help reveal some of the mystery that revolves around him. And let's be honest, the episodes where we learn more about the Doctor are always the best ones. I feel sad for you. You seem so hung up on hating this character. Hope you can eventually look past your hatred. I've always loved your reviews, but now you're just venting.
blackumbra 6 months ago
I really love River Song, I think she is an amazing character :)
abbecka 6 months ago
I actually don't hate River at all, but I would have really liked to see more history/Hitler stuff. I did like the Mels bit, but I also knew that she was Melody/River.
BeeGK 6 months ago 53
I didn't really like River when she appeared in The Silence in the Library, but her character has grown on me. I thought that the story unfolded really neatly and was very well written. Also, when the Doctor gave River the TARDIS journal I was nearly crying.
charlottekane123 6 months ago 2
River is better than Jack. You're just jealous. :)
orbital151 6 months ago
I think your gotten to dislike a pretty major character in the New Who series, ever since the silence in the library its been obvious shes going to appear many times in coming episodes and series. shes a major staple in the Doctors story now and cant really kill her off as we already seen her death. I quiet like Alex Kingstons character and she plays it well and i never felt forced to like her. But im afraid that your least favourite Character in the new who has a long story to tell.
dangermouseuk78 6 months ago
The only thing that really stood out for me in this episode was seeing little Amy, Mels and Rory and their friendship (I can see Amy being friends with someone like that) but when Mels regenerated I just lost interest in the episode .After watching Let's kill Hitler, I realised that I hate River, but it's complicated and I still don't get most of her reasoning behind what she does (because let's face it, just 'she's a physcopath' isn't a good enough reason).
jelbertie 6 months ago
This was the only episode that I didn't hate River.
mytwilightsong 6 months ago
I don't like River Song at all. And not because of her open portrayal of sexuality. Sexual character are fine. I think my problem is that there is no tention about her character at all. We know exactly where she is going and how things are going to turn out. That's just not interesting for a companion. I think her character would be better as a straight up villian. Because then some of her traits would work better, for example her ability to know as much if not more than the Doctor at times.
docfan2009 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
River Song isn't going anywhere. No point in complaining about her over and over and over and over again.
natnel56 6 months ago
The whole ''Let's kill Hitler'' as a title is just the quote from Mels/River as she said it frequently. Just because it's the name of the episode, doesn't mean the plot has to revolve around it.
To say that they have never made mention of the past companions is a lie, it was in the deleted scenes of series 5 and was unfortunately cut. I like River, and always find it funny when people who have a tendency to prefer RTD's series, such as yourself, seem to be the most vocal about hating River.
maliciousalice 6 months ago
I actually quite like River Song, I think shes interesting as she can jump around the timelines, which her give the extra knowledge and things. But that doesnt mean she has to be in EVERY episode, or be every character! And I found it frustrating too that suddenly there was the best friend who'd never been mentioned before even in passing, but who apparently has been an integral part of Amy and Rory's lives.
BlackettChris 6 months ago 2
I think the episode was too scattered, you were thrown into the episode with all these expectations and then none of them fully played out and it was a completely different episode to what we were expecting. And I think because of the fact that Rory and Amy were in the robot, and River was here and there and everywhere, and the Doctor had his own little thing in the TARDIS, it seemed really confusing and over complicated for an episode to me. And it had a very misleading episode name.
simplytakeit 6 months ago
I'm tired about River Song as well, she's really an embarrassment to her parents
Besides I don't think she has the body to act like such a whore
macmule 6 months ago
I agree that it had so much potential, even with the robot, there could have been a big Hitler vs Robot wanting to kill Hitler thing. Considering if he had be killed in 1938, before WW2 and The Final Solution, there could be an argument for him being a pretty damn good chancellor (getting Germany out of the depression, getting people working (In no way am I wanting to defend Hitler)) It would be a big moral choice. But Moffat gave the media a small thing to hold, to avoid spoilers. Clever man
cubedreamsinwords 6 months ago
I have to say the hatred of river song seems like petty jealousy to me. In the same way that its always the slightly sexualised girl groups that get booted out of X Factor first or the sexy girls who get evicted from big brother first. Women just seem to hate the idea that someone could be more sexually liberated than themselves. Its a little sad because if river was a man (captain jack), I think you feel so differently and appreciate what a clever storyline its been.
ajayrious 6 months ago
@ajayrious I agree this whole River Song theme running through the episodes is getting alittle bit annoying, I mean surely the Doctor must be getting sick of her by now.. lol.
davejp29 6 months ago
@ajayrious Also the Hitler aspect wasn't used to its full potential which was disappointing.
davejp29 6 months ago
I agree with your feelings about river song - she ruined this episode for me. I loved how kick ass rory was in this; and he and amy when they both said "i love you"
I just don't understand why the doctor likes river so much - its as if he (like us) has been told that he will like her and so he does....
The part where i doctor 'died' idn't have any emotional depth for me either because i knew that he would survive somehow. The peril was lost.
littlelostnell 6 months ago
I personally don't see anything wrong with River. I mean, I get why people find her a little annoying, but I don't get why you ABSOLUTELY PASSIONATELY hate her.
CamilleonProductions 6 months ago 2
WHY DID HE NOT SAY "I LIKE BANANA's, BANANA's ARE GOOD!"
i was upset about this :(
SteamPunkReview 6 months ago
What im more worried about is that since river is a little like the doctor and he is supposed to die in this series there is a little open opportunity for them to kill of the doctor and have a female (river song) play his role :/
Marbler166 6 months ago
I like River as a stand alone character. But I hate the fact she's Amy and Rory's daughter. And I HATE how The Doctor has to ASK Rory permission to hug Amy.
She's not his property.
mione134 6 months ago
Y U HATE RIVER?
theoneandonlyandyman 6 months ago
I loved the episode only because they showed rose, martha, and donna in the tardis. Because I hate how in the new series with matt smith they never mention all the old companions or captain jack or the fact that the doctor loved rose. Makes it feel like a seperate show because shouldn't the doctor still care even though he's moved on to new companions. I also hate rivers character although I liked her a bit as mel but that didnt last long at all.
Emilyybearr 6 months ago
I like River okay. It depends on the episode. The more she knows The Doctor, the more I like her, and vice versa. This episode shows her as a petulant rebellious teenager who has no idea who The Doctor really is.
They pulled a couple stretches with the whole regen thing that though they've established before as possible, I thought were just a magic plot device this time. I did find it interesting that they had her go back and grow up with Amy, since that part of Amy's life wasn't a fixed point.
djtron1x 6 months ago
I REALLY don't care about River Song. Rory for best companion.
JordynJitters 6 months ago
they shouldve introduced mels earlier or waited to reveal her as river later because it wasnt a shock cause we barely met her
MrMinVik 6 months ago
@MrMinVik agreed. We could care less about Mels, thus it transfers to River when she regenerates.
djtron1x 6 months ago
The only place I've ever seen distaste for River is in the comment section of these videos :/. Personally, I love her, but I understand that everyone has their own opinions
kathykatinahat 6 months ago 57
@kathykatinahat agreed. River FTW
duplicatehelix 6 months ago
Despite my personal distaste for River Song, I loved this episode. Maybe it was just getting a glimpse of Rose; I don't know. I adored seeing young Amy and Rory, and I quite liked younger River. It just worked for me. I would've appreciated some actual Hitler-killing, however.
alliekat16 6 months ago
I love River Song but I still really didn't like this episode.
TonksftMemories 6 months ago
Seriously, they should just rename the show "River Song," since it's not about The Doctor anymore. And they never wrapped up the red herring storyline (which was the name of the damn episode!!!!).
bethanyedwards 6 months ago
this was a fantastic episode great original ideas it was painfull to see my doctor hate himself and feel guilt about his former companions though :(
doctorw2 6 months ago
I love River. I really do. No idea why, I just love that there is someone who is just as crazy and impulsive as the Doctor and I think they're perfect together :)
cortnekarla 6 months ago
I like River better in this season than in the past, but I'm still not a huge fan of her. This episode just felt very different to me, and I felt like it wasn't all that cohesive. Hitler seemed kind of pointless when the entire thing was advertised as all about him. :P
cookiemonstrously 6 months ago
I used to really want to know about River but all of the hype and push to like her has gotten highly annoying.
As for the acknowledgement of the other characters, I loved it. I was so happy to see the Doctor react to them but at the same time I felt it was just another pathetic ploy to draw back in fans that had been upset about Moffat's complete disregard for them.
Overall, I really didn't care for the episode. I think this past season has been disappointing.
MackenzieDouglas13 6 months ago
They just left him there... My grandma would be furious!
iliveonplanetspace 6 months ago
I cannot stand River at all. I actually liked the pyschopathic version of her better than the actual River. It's a shame that my favorite parts of the episodes are young Rory, Rose/Martha/Donna shoutouts, but I really was just happy to watch this episode
beangirl1389 6 months ago
Get over yourself. They've given us plenty of backround on river. You just made a decision the first time she was introduced and have stubbornly stuck to it ever since even though she has proved her worth.
sharkbait231 6 months ago 2
I LIKED RIVER SONG SO MUCH AND NOW I THINK I DON'T LIKE HER ANYMORE.
Sorry. Too early, haven't seen the rest of the season yet, but damn did I like her better in series 5/6.
Also Rory is legit sapping Amy of badassness. So annoying. I like him but DEAR MOFF, STOP DESTROYING AMY'S PERSONALITY
belleglass 6 months ago
@belleglass I mean, series 4/5. Jeeze.
belleglass 6 months ago
I completely agree. After this episode I felt so disappointed afterwards because I was looking forward to watching Doctor Who again but then it was a really uninteresting episode. I don't like River either, and I was just cringing at the bits with her. I'm actually suprised by how many people really liked it!
sorryimuncreative 6 months ago
personally i just can't wait til it becomes "Dr Who" again and not "The Doctor and the Companions" this ain't to say that i don't like Amy, Rory, and River but i think they give too many story lines to them
aneiasl 6 months ago
I hope there's going to be some sort of flashback to the summer the Doctor spent looking for Melody, because they threw us straight into the plot and, I was talking to my housemate about this, they condensed a bunch of ideas and plot lines that could be better explained in separate episodes into this one episode. And I'm fine with River, but this is quickly becoming "The River Show" where every episode has to do with the BIG mystery, which is shrouded in an enigma.
dianasof 6 months ago
@dianasof I just feel like Moffatt has been given too much free reign for his ideas and he wants to cover all of this ground at the same time. I don't know, I hope the next episode will change my opinions.
dianasof 6 months ago
Comment removed
Saragish 6 months ago
I think River Song has been developed into a very likeable character. More so in this season. I feel like we are beginning to know who she is and how tragic her story is. What I didn't like is how rushed this story felt. Even the answers we were getting about river I think could have been more effectively written. I feel like it was a sloppy script and didn't do justice to the character. should have had more ww2 and they need to stop killing everyone all the time.
yerbuaaubrey23 6 months ago
Haven't seen your vids for a while. You're still gorgeous. And I'm still in love with your accent! Is there a way I can steal your accent?
scully2222 6 months ago
One of my first thoughts, that I still kinda have, is this sneaky suspicion that Moffat had this brain crack idea of the Doctor saying "You named your daughter... after your daughter", wet himself with how clever that line was, and then invented Mels and wrote the rest of the episode simply to create the circumstances for that line to be said...
chinareds54 6 months ago
I felt like they should have explored Mels more as a character before she had the regeneration into River Song. We have been getting River's story backwards and it's hard to care for a character when we get to know her in reverse. I hope that we get more development of River as a developing character so we can finally actually know what motivates her.
topher208 6 months ago
@topher208 I agree with you there. I was actually quite interested in seeing some pre River Melody but instead she jumped straight into being River. I would have liked for Mels to stick around a bit longer and maybe even get another Melody between her and River. It makes her having regenerations feel a bit wasted if the moment we meet her again she is done regenerating.
GaiashKetoji 6 months ago
you look like eddplant...
Dairypotterful 6 months ago
All I ever hear from you is River is ruining it. If that's the case I recommend not watching the rest of this season. You might be disappointed. I loved River in this episode. Kingston did a great job. She's a strong female character which I like and I think that's why people don't like her. She's a female Jack. River is supposed to be a mystery due to her timeline. She's probably going to be a great companion. Also I think you're a bit of a Rory fangirl. Don't hate the player, Hate the game.
soultaker30 6 months ago
@soultaker30 Can't say I agree with you there. The mystery of River is getting smaller and smaller and she is exactly the same. The interest I had in her as a character was how she became River. This episode has just said "she has always been like this even before meeting The Doctor" and that has destroyed my interest in her story.
Also Rory is awesome.
GaiashKetoji 6 months ago
@GaiashKetoji I think River had sooooooooo much potential as a character (I REALLY like her personality) *and* as a plot point but Moff has apparently 100% ruined her story. I mean, she had SO much potential. *So* much. And now she's just... annoying and confusing in an uninteresting way, in the span of one crappy episode.
belleglass 6 months ago
@belleglass I really liked the concept of River but now that all the big mysteries have been revealed I have to admit they're a bit anti-climactic. We barely get any of her as Melody Pond, we never get a point when she doesn't really know The Doctor, her reason for knowing how to fly the TARDIS was bland and so soon after learning she can regenerate she turns into River and can't do it any more. It is like everything I found interesting about her went away.
GaiashKetoji 6 months ago
@GaiashKetoji Yes, I agree. I feel that as the writing for River-the-mystery revealed more about her, the writing for River-the-character should have gotten stronger; instead, the writing destroyed a lot of her appeal by giving her little to no character development in face of the (crappy, imo) answer to some of her mysteries. Such a shame, I was a huge River fan when she appeared in Series 4 & 5, and Alex is great. Hope they at least try to develop Melody a little more... :/
belleglass 6 months ago
@GaiashKetoji Rory is awesome but he isn't all I want to see in an ep. Most of last season and a lot of this season was Rory and Amy's relationship. So complaining of not enough Rory or that River is blocking Rory's light is kinda ridiculous. And yes River's mystery is getting smaller but that doesn't make her any less interesting as a character. I mean we knew all about the other companions but still they're loved. I think Steven Moffat will come up with more surprises. He is known for it.
soultaker30 6 months ago
@soultaker30 What I found interesting about River was seeing how different she'd be when she didn't know The Doctor. This episode shows that she was always the same River we've seen since her first appearence.
The fact is I find River as a character to be boring. With the one thing that interested me about her gone there is nothing interesting about her whatsoever.
GaiashKetoji 6 months ago
@GaiashKetoji You're more then welcomed to your opinion of her because I doubt i'll sway you. However I can still see her as an intriguing character. She still has to deal with fighting the brain washing and her feelings for the Doctor. I wonder what the more current River is doing. Her timeline can't be all backwards to the Doctor or else you wouldn't ever find out how she kills him and ends up in jail. If it isn't too much trouble at least remain open to what Steven Moffat has in store. : )
soultaker30 6 months ago
@soultaker30 That's more of a story forshadowing than mystery about the character. Before when there was a chance she could have been a different person it was interesting but now they actually took away the mystery by outright saying "River kills him" after revealing that River never was any different.
GaiashKetoji 6 months ago
You speak my mind! I really want to like River Song and everyone around me seems to, but I just find what they do with her and because of her (in reference to storyline) is always disappointing. I finally got over the last episode and how she's Melody Pond, but here they had a really good chance to go deeper into her past and the way Rory and Amy deal with her absence, but instead it was THIS. I just felt like it was a missed opportunity. At this point, I'm ready to entirely move on from River.
zerohundredlol 6 months ago
Yessss. YES. This.
Cassiestarglimmer 6 months ago
i think river is the shit! one of my favorite characters by far because I don't know everything about her and it excites me to want to find out more. I personally want to see her story line grow and then we will all see how she connects with everything and her affect on the doctor in the future..
eROCKSh 6 months ago
I really didn't like Mels. I didn't like how she was just thrown in there and had never been mentioned before. It felt like the entire episode would end up being an "oh that didn't really happen, you were just imagining it" type of episode. I would have loved to have gone more into I do understand why they took such a long break as well. It en the history of the time period as well.ded on a huge River Song storyline and came back with a huge River Song storyline.
blaisezabiniful 6 months ago
it's like when you meet someone at a party and you don't know them but they want to tell you all about themselves. why should you care? well who knows, maybe you'll end up getting close to that person one day so giving them time isn't going to hurt. i think everyone just needs to be a little more open-minded to the story and accept that their questions aren't going to be answered until moffat wants to answer them.
Altmetalpunk 6 months ago
not to mention river knows stuff that the doctor doesn't and everyone expects the doctor to know things and that ticks people off too.
I like river because the character and her story forces people to think in a way that they normally wouldn't. it's the fact that we're all so impatient and we want this instant gratification of knowing exactly what's going on, who she is and why these people want the doctor dead.
Altmetalpunk 6 months ago
i don't think that they expect you to care about river song. like you said you need background to care about someone and we're getting her background now so yeah. I think the main thing that really pisses people off about river is she's a character that's in a way demands respect but you don't know why yet. i think the things she did in this episode were pretty cool although i thought when she first appeared her exchange with the doctor was cheesy.
Altmetalpunk 6 months ago
I hate river song too. I also thought that in an episode called 'Let's kill Hitler', Hitler might actually be in it a lot more :/
catherine1495 6 months ago
i was upset when mels regenerated into river because i really loved mels i think she would have made an awsome companion but im glad in some weird doctor who way that amy got to raise her daughter afterall
SilenceJustFell 6 months ago
You know, I care about River and I find her interesting (so I don't really understand the hate for her, but I totally respect your opinion). I still think this episode wasn't handled well though. I think there is a bit too much emphasis on River and her story. They could have done more with the Hitler storyline and everything. That's why I liked the stories in America, because River was there but it wasn't all about her. But I still enjoyed the episode, especially the flashbacks.
idefine777 6 months ago
I agree completely with what you said about River Song. I don't like being told who I should and shouldn't like.
gwensbrown 6 months ago
P.S. Sorry. I somewhat over stated my point there.
metfilmguy2009 6 months ago
...Then once the Doctor had saved the baby and brought it back in the final episode then reveal would have been more rewarding for us the audience, as well as the characters, as all the tension and danger in the story arc, not to mention the audiences time watching the show, would have been worth it. Anyway, that's just my view lol.
metfilmguy2009 6 months ago
...If the reveal had been delyaed until the the end of the series six then the tension to save the baby would be there throughout the remaing episodes so River could keep up the ephaisis on saving it while we'd be seeing the Doctor risking life and limb to do so and us, the audience, as well as the characters would be asking 'all the time why's this baby so important?!
metfilmguy2009 6 months ago
...As it is the dramatic teason is lost because we know that the baby is River before the Doctor starts his search so therefore we already know everything is going to be ok so..where's the dramatic tension?
metfilmguy2009 6 months ago
The whole bringing people back to life thing doesn't really fly with me. Like you said, it takes away your apprehensiveness because you know that even if they die, some stupid loophole will bring them back to life and it will be all fine and dandy. I was so excited to see what they did with Hitler, and you really only saw him for like 10 seconds. Overall, this episode was dissapointing.
Last42Tides 6 months ago 2
I personaly have an issue with timing of the revelation that the baby is River Song. For me that should have been saved until AFTER the Doctor had saved the baby and returned it to Rory and Amy at the end of series six. That way, at least for me, it would ave been a much better pay off and satisfying conclusion.
metfilmguy2009 6 months ago
yeah when they showed Rose, Martha, and Donna, with the BIG GUILT, that was nice and cool. I didn't really get why he needed the voice interface though. That was a bit weird. And yeah, I felt that they could've done a lot more with hitler/WWII and or the minipeople. It just became a whole set up for River which they then trashed cause she's the center.
tehCHARISSARD 6 months ago 26
@tehCHARISSARD Yeah, I kinda froze when I saw Rose.. I forgot that technically, 11 is the same doctor as 10... you know, just a bit different.
Sorry, big Rose and 10 fan.
beyondbookworm 6 months ago 2
@tehCHARISSARD well imagine that youve been poisoned and youre dying. youre going to struggle to run around a ship that needs 6 pilots to control it. so he used it to give him motivation while struggling with severe pain. he even said "i can be brave for you" :)
SteamPunkReview 6 months ago
@tehCHARISSARD He was too weak to get up and look at the scanner, so he needed an interface to "read" it to him, so to speak
CamilleonProductions 6 months ago