Batoo OSL Tiebreakers Set 2 @ Ro16 Group A

[Chrijz]

Great that the Korean TV don't show the "Winner"-sign next to the video with the loser anymore, now they only show the "Winner"-sign with video of the winner.

[kakao777]

damn that game was exiting.. u build up the game adrenalin for us there in the begining by alot guys ty ^^.. realy gd opening... btw did u see storks face after, never seen him as irretaded, and i feel with him.. any1 has any serius suggestion to go on this map.. all in probe +1plasma shield timing attack?

[kakao777]

fo fack sejk rofl.. guys i lov u but.. can u plssss make some test videos to get a gd volume working lol

never seen theese kinda probs before

[RaiKageRyu]

JulyZerg eating protosses like snacks as usual.

[Slaphappy1975]

Holy shit that was intense.

[NETMR2]

imba map!!! intense game though!

[heyyou7000]

haha

[orochimaruisugly]

YOUR LIFE FOR AIUR

YOUR DEATH

[EebstertheGreat]

If Stork had gone for a +1 rush, it might have been mildly successful. Since July went mutas rather than lurkers, the zealots still could have done tons of damage, depending on whether July built sunkens, and the cannons would be up in time to defend Stork's main.

It seems like it still would have been an uphill battle, though. I honestly don't know how the Protoss are supposed to win with a one base build.

[iambaubo]

He didn't have time for +1. Because by then, July would have a 3rd hatch and either lurkers or mutas.

And protoss aren't suppose to win if they can't expand. Hence why protosses don't win against zerg on this map(12 straight losses in pro matches).

[EebstertheGreat]

OK, first of all, I fully expected July to get the mutas in time, but that doesn't preclude the speedlot attack (as this match made clear), and second of all "Protoss aren't suppose to win if they can't expand?" What the hell does that mean, that one base builds are designed to fail? It's clear that recently maps have been heavily stacked against one-base Protoss, but that's a fault of the map, not the match-up. One base once was standard for Protoss vs. Zerg early game.

[iambaubo]

You fail to grasp the concept of timing attacks. Plenty of protoss go for non-plus 1 attacks and win, in order to gain TIME. Hence, "Timing" attack.

And I mean what I said about one-base protoss. 2 base zerg > 1 base protoss. Hence 1 base protoss can't win unless there's an element of surprise.

There's a reason why 1-base tech became almost obsolete when Forge-FE was found.

[ModeLTU]

Timing attack isn't used to gain time.

It means attacking just at the right moment as another player has spent a lot of money on Tech or economy (expansion or workers) just before those tech options or superior economy kicks in.

[phaeryen]

that, and the pros also throw in their own upgrades to kick in just at the right moment for extra hurt when possible.

so its like you abuse your gosu game sense to make nasty things happen against your opponent, all at the same time. units arrive to push against his natural. right at the moment when he is between tech switch, low on units. right as your own +1 whatever upgrade kicks in. and so on.

iambaubo, man, you just huyked yourself a little bit there. :D

[iambaubo]

July just finished his lair, hydra den, and spire. What more tech is Stork going to wait on? Do you think July would go two-hatch hive or something!?

For someone who understands the concept of a timing attack, you certainly didn't realize that Stork did attack at the most opportune time.

He was just unlucky that July anticipated an all-in push due to the map.

[ModeLTU]

I'm not sure if that attack can be called a 'timing attack' per say.

It was a desperate attempt to force July to bring his mutas back to gain some time just as you told.I just said that it isn't a correct definition of timing attack that's all :P

[carpediemgrc]

"timing attack" isn't an attack that gives you Time man. Sorry, you need some studying to do before you can teach =)

[MrChesty]

Okay timing attack every means you attack at just the right moment when the enemy is unprepared for the attack. It isn't meant to gain time. Go learn about war and battle before you start talking about strategies.

[EebstertheGreat]

I don't fail to grasp anything; rather, you fail to grasp that speed may not be the most important element to a rush. By your logic, "plenty of protoss" also go for +1 attacks; in fact, this is FAR more popular. And the irony here is that Stork lost because he didn't get the cannons up in time, which a +1 attack would solve.

And I would like to revise my initial statement with: "I honestly don't know how the Protoss are supposed to win on tears of the moon." Really, they are screwed all around.

[iambaubo]

I'm certain, EebstertheGreat, that you've never played one-base +1 attack EVER in PvZ. Because if you have, you'd realize how horribly easy it is for the zerg to kill you.

[EebstertheGreat]

You're being absurd. Have you not seen pros go +1 speedlots? It's basically THE hot shit off of one or two gas. Claiming that such a popular build is too weak for pros is like saying a nine pool always fails.

In this case, you STILL haven't answered the fact that he had no anti-air whatsoever, and so immediately GGed, whereas if he had built a forge, the cannons would have been up in plenty of time to stop the mutas. He would have been behind, but it wouldn't have been an instant GG.

[kennyfantana]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[megastr888]

haha hey cholera when you said one base strategies --> you forgot much's 1 base carriers.......

[RealmEternal]

1 base carrier. What? when did this happen

[megastr888]

It was Much v Bisu @ OSL group A set2 on VioleTAK, played on the map Plasma on september 13, 2008, won't spoil it for you but lets just say it was exciting as hell, at least for me enjoy! =D

[Puckstop101]

oh yeah i forgot about that that wasa freakin crazy ass game... on a side note.. i wonder where the map plasma has gone it had some crazy gaems on it

[iambaubo]

Stork getting pwned by the map. I'm not July, but I think he went for both the den and the spire to cover everything. Since he knew Stork was doing a timing attack.

I LOVE how Stork killed his own probe there to free up psi. Baller.

[sporeandbryan]

dam zerg imbalance

[Elsydeonz]

I love 1base vs zerg

[postmanpat77]

not trying to be mean but did anyone else notice that cholera kept inturrupting rise alot this commentary?

[clizzaster]

Suck it stork.

[sc2gg4ever]

guess its time for Tears of the Moon 2

[stevethemacguy]

Hmm, perhaps it's all staged? Think about it, the cable companies pay the map creators to balance the maps one way or another so their ratings will go up. I definitely don't think map imbalances are insurmountable, but it can certainly be a contributer to the success of a certain race. Just an observation.

[Theldiot]

I don't think it is "staged" as in wrestling. BUT, the game can be and is balanced via map design. The same will be true for Starcraft 2 as well, i presume. If one race will be weaker than others, the designers can either adjust unit balance or change the maps to favor that race.

[Georionsc]

i HATE this PvZ build it's so stupid... you need no micro, no multitask, no nothing, only thing you need is that the Z doesnt preapre for it

[JamieGajer]

wow thats crazyness. every build by july is sexy. doesnt even matter if he scouts or if he doesnt, it will defend against anything.

if stork tried some 1base quick sairs, july already has the 1 or 2 hydra out to counter it with the early den.

if stork tries zel rush with a goon or 2, july has like 10lings 3 hydra plus rediculous drone drill to fend.

thats so epic.

[RtypeDx]

July opted for mutalisks because he actually put the hydra den while stork's probe scout was still in his base and could see that (on purpose? who knows, tricky tricky)... After it died he pulled theswitcheroo w/ the spire!

[manuelschindler]

i think it sucks that this is decided by the choice of the map

[MarkuswithanM]

As soon as theres a map that isnt good for toss everybody starts whining...

[zeejustin6]

Ha!

[7DarkTemplar7]

i whine about "rush hour three's" huge imbalance towards terran

[MarkuswithanM]

exactly

[hi19hi19]

I'm pretty sure there was plenty of whining about that map Katrina, too. It's not just the toss... nobody likes imba maps.

[chihuadog]

i love zvp's but it's tough to watch games on maps that are this imbalanced.

[NotThat3]

I have a question: Can a player compete in these tournaments under random race? A true prozerran master, would he be allowed?

Yes I know it's extremely hard to play all 3 races at pro level, but it does give nice advantage in build order until the other player finds out your race.

[chihuadog]

actually there's a rule in place that you can't play random. you have to let kespa know a week in advance in all your matches which race you're going to play. there are some pro gamers who are really good at all 3 races(jaedong being one of them). i think playing random kind of just screws up the quality of the games. basically there's a chance you end up playing your worst race and you won't really have a game plan prepared. it's fun at the amateur level though.

[nerflung]

first place in the faGgotTt contest

sit down

[lionelchu]

i wonder what these guys look like.

[Kojikabuto87]

I also went wtf? when that probe died

and Rise's audio volume seems slightly lower than Cholera's in this cast.

[Shenoir06]

hasn't shaved... haven't slept* lol

[HumanStrategy]

wat?