Thomas McEvilley on Ancient Greek and Indian philosophy

[nojyt]

We can argue back and forth all day about which civilization was greater. (I, for one, cannot find any civilization that made as many intellectual advances as the Greeks, given the constraints of the times). However, what we cannot debate AT ALL is which civilization influenced the world the most. The answer is hands-down the Greek one. As for this idea of continuous interactions and co-development, please.... There was barely even agricultural trade between them at the time.

[OTROHIJO]

@nojyt "I, for one" usually

means I'm the only one I know that ...

[nojyt]

@OTROHIJO After a month that's all you could come up with? So presumably if I find one other person who agrees with me, your argument is destroyed? Seriously, add something more valuable to the conversation than a smart alec comment.

[alasion1]

@nojyt alexander went to india for a reason.in the maharabat the greek army that fought in india is recorded.they are the same people who worshiped in ancient times the same gods.

[nojyt]

@alasion1 Sorry, I don't understand your point.

[Jocjabes]

Although interactions were true, what he says about 'indians' and greeks coming from the same community is completely bigoted and ignorant. Indians already had metropolises around egyptian times in whats called INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION, when greece was only starting to crawl. Those indians welcomed the foreigners, in what u Sir refer as 'Indians'

When an educated person says this stuff, ppl absorb it without questioning its validity because ppl trust you with all ur books in the back. Shame!

[mojorisin08]

Europeans will always try to prove their superiority. That is what their religion teaches. They have problems accepting the"Other". Guys, these people who have posted comments on the greatness of Greece fail to understand that by the time of Socrates, India had three great religions 100 years before his birth. This shows that Vedic thought precedes BUddhist philosophical perspectives. Grow up white guys. Accept the truth. India is your teacher.. The browns taught the whites.

[nischayatmik]

The west has for too long been trying to destroy Indian history by embarking on this propaganda of disinformation. Read on.

[nixter888]

@nischayatmik THE WEST WAS, AND IS AGAINST GREECE TOO!..SO ARE THE ZIONISTS!...DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE!...INDIA IS THE DAUGHTER OF GREECE!...NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT!!!!

[nixter888]

@nixter888DIONYSUS,HERCULES,TR­IPTOLEMUS,ALEXANDER,AND HIS GREEK GENERALS,..ARE THE TEACHERS OF INDIA!!!!!

[nixter888]

@nixter888 DO NOT FORGET ORPHEUS,AND THE CRETANS TOO!

[nischayatmik]

There has been too much inclination among Western writers to idealize the Greeks and their civilization, and they have tended to discover too much of the contemporary world in the Greek past. In fact almost everything was traced to ancient Greece. In all that concerned intellectual activity and even faith, modern civilization was considered to be an overgrown colony of Hellas. The obvious Greek failings, their shortcomings and the unhealthy features of their civilization, was romanticized.

[nixter888]

@nischayatmik DIONYSUS,HERCULES,TRIPTOLEMUS,­ALEXANDER,AND HIS GREEK GENERALS,..ARE THE TEACHERS OF INDIA!!!!!

[godno1god]

The 19th century German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer, was also convinced of the East/West link. The Ganges, according to Schopenhauer, was the root of Greek philosophy and even Christianity has its roots in Indian! It gets better, reincarnation easily fits into the Greek ontology. You see, the Greeks, like the Indians, had cyclical time, as opposed to the Christian linear time, as only cyclical time allows for reincarnation! So yes the parallels are definitely there!

[nixter888]

THING

[nixter888]

The Indians were influenced from the Greeks,and not the way around!...First Dionysus travel to India,he gave them the laws,he built cities,he show them how to make win!. Arrian informs us that before the coming of Dionysos, Indians were nomads subsisting on the bark of the trees known as tala and that when Dionysos came to India he taught them to sow the land, and it was he who "first yoked oxen to the plough and made many Indian husbandmen and gave the people the seeds of cultivated plants."

[nixter888]

@nixter888 Herakles is generally identified with Vasudeva-Krsna in the popular mythology of the fourth century B.C., the Krishna and Baladeva legends had not yet acquired the final shape in which they are presented to us in the Mahabharata and the Puranas."We know that he visited India and gave them civilization!

[nixter888]

@nixter888 "This Herakles is held in especial honour by Sourasenoi, an Indian tribe who possess two large cities Mathora and Cleisobora and through whose country flows a navigable river called Iobares." Herakles has been identified with Vasudeva Krsna and Sourasenoi with the Surasena Yadavas...GREEKS ARE AUTOXTHONES THERE NOT SUCH THINK LIKE INDOEUROPEANS! FROM THE LAND OF GREECE,THE ARYAN GREEKS LEFT AND WENT ALL OVER THE WORLD,TEACHING THE PEOPLE!...GREEK IS THE MOTHER LANGUAGE..

[nixter888]

@nixter888 ALSO THEY LEARN FROM ALEXANDER THE GREAT AND HIS GENERALS WHO BECAME KINGS AFTER HIS DEATH! ... The archaeological remains of their cities and in the indications of their support of Buddhism, pointing to a rich fusion of Indian and Hellenistic influences.The diffusion of Indo-Greek culture had consequences which are still felt today, particularly through the influence of Greco-Buddhist art.

[nixter888]

The "Yona" Greek king of India Menander (160–135 BCE). inscription in Greek, "BASILEŌS SOTĒROS MENANDROU" lit. "of Saviour King Menander"."Yona" is a Pali word used in ancient India to designate Greek speakers. Its equivalent in Sanskrit, Malayalam, Kannada, Telugu and Tamil is the word "Yavana". "Yona" and Yavana are both transliterations of the Greek word for "Ionians"

[nixter888]

In Telugu another word "Yavanika", means drama stage, an invention brought by Hellenistic people. "Yunani", likewise, means medicine from Greeks....References to "mlechha" teachings having any profound effect on India's enormous body of knowledge are discarded in serious academic circles. A more accurate description of Greeks may be from the "Brihat-Samhita", where the mathematician Varahamihira says: "The Greeks, though impure, must be honored since they were trained in sciences".

[nixter888]

@nixter888 From the ancient text, the BRIHAT KAHTA, we read how the ancient inhabitants of INDIA were aware of the flying craft WHICH HAD BEEN DEVELOPED BY CERTAIN GREEKS who were very possessive of their scientific and mechanical knowledge.

[nixter888]

AS YOU CAN SEE THE GREEKS ARE THE ONES THAT WENT TO INDIA MANY TIMES SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME,..CIVILIZE THE INDIANS,.FROM GREECE!,,,GREECE IN THE CRADLE OF GREEK PEOPLE!..THEY NEVER CAME FROM ANY OTHER PLACE!...GREEK LANGUAGE IN THE MORE ANCIENT LANGUAGE FROM WHERE ALL LANGUAGES DERINED,...FROM CORNER OF THE EARTH EVERYTHING STERTED!...THERE IS NOT INDOEUROPEANS,THERE IS NOT INDOEUROPEAN LANGUAGE ...IT'S CALLED PROTO-GREEK,..AND THAT'S THE TRUTH!

[adityabose26]

@nixter888 Ha ha ha ha....greeks were but a nation of goat herders. They only came into prominence less than a thousand years before Philips of macedon dreamt of uniting the various greek republics. Stop ur chauvinistic BS & get some education first. One more thing, stop misinterpreting the content of our scriptures. "Yavanika" simply meant the curtains that were unique to the greek plays. Indian drama & theatrical styles were well advanced before the greeks even started dabbling in their own.

[nixter888]

@adityabose26

POOR mind!...You have no idea what it means to be Greek!...Greek drama, and both linguistic and historical evidence suggest that Greek drama was known in India (introduced by Alexander in the fourth century BCE).three derivatives of Yavana mentioned by Panini: Greek woman Yavani, curtain yavanika and the Greek script Yavanani.Do not be pathetic!...See the video Part 15 of 15 - Pleiadian Alaje - English Sub

From: 777ALAJE TO SEE WHAT IT MEANS GREEKS,ANGD GREEK GODS!

[nischayatmik]

@nixter888 You ought to study Sanskrit and Greek side by side and then decide for yourself if you should apologize for your insolence.

[nixter888]

@nischayatmik THE GREEK LANGUAGE, is the ancient MOTHER TONGUE OF ALL LANGUAGES,on earth!.. This exquisite, DIVINE, and PERFECT MATHEMATICAL, ontological and logical creation,that created by the Greeks, not only remains immune to the treacherous and malicious wounds continuously manage AGAINST IT,..BUT ALSO IS THE HOPE AND THE FUTURE OF THE WORLDS CIVILIZATION ,AND THIS IS A REVENGE AGAINST THE INTERNATIONAL conspirators who try with many vicious ways to extinct these creation of the Gods!

[nixter888]

From the ancient text, the BRIHAT KAHTA, we read how the ancient inhabitants of INDIA were aware of the flying craft WHICH HAD BEEN DEVELOPED BY CERTAIN GREEKS who were very possessive of their scientific and mechanical knowledge... SOOOO...DO NOT TRY TO UNDERRATE THE GREEKS!...You are not able too!...IF YOU ONLY KNEW!!!

[nixter888]

@nixter888 WHO'S LANGUAGE IF USED FOR THE SCIENTIFIC,RELIGIOUS ,PHILOSOPHICAL,ASTRONOMICAL,TH­EATRICAL,MEDICAL,AND THOUSANDS MORE TERMS IN THIS WORLD?...ONLY GREEK,AND SOME LATIN WHICH LATIN DERIVED FROM GREEK!....BEHAVE NOW,AND RESPECT THE MOTHER LANGUAGE OF THE WORLD,...GREEK!!!!!!!!!!

[alasion1]

pre flood, atlantis covered the world and they all spoke greek.the were called kemet greeks.they had the sophia.and thats why the greeks have and are still being slaughtered.to keep the world from the truth.

[nixter888]

@nixter888 WINE

[carameloxx]

MANY INDIANS TOSAY ARE SOMEWHAT PART GREEK...LIKE THE ONES WITH LIGHT TAN OR WHITE SKIN WITH PERFECT HAIR.OR EAROPIAN CURLY HAIR.....THIS CAME FROM THE INVASION OF ALEXANDER WHEN HIS SOLDIERS SETTLE DOWN AND GAVE IT TO MANY INDIAN GIRLS...REAL INDIANS ARE DARK AND BROWN

[paayoub]

greeks got it from ancient india through persia..they got it much much later.

[unapologeticmind]

#1: He can't name a single Indian influence on ancient Greek philosophy.

#2: Naming hypothetical caravan traders as sources of Indian profusion in Greece just doesn't cut it in serious scholarship.

#3: The entire premise of his book is stretched with lots of holes which he conveniently fills with personal assumptions (in order to make sense of his book).

This book is as credible as the story on Jesus visit to India. Both are in theory possible but neither of them have any proof whatsoever...

[DarkPhychic]

@unapologeticmind

jesus in india explained with proof(how the bible is edited).

Search youtue"healing the soul 7"

[Dude2012iffy]

@unapologeticmind -- Hmm, and just where was Jesus when he disappeared from the bible? His return with teachings quite like the Buddha certainly would be no indicator. And of course Indian manuscripts describing the Nazarene when he was a young man and later returning to India with the associated scars of the crucifixion as his living a full life. These documents would not have the credibility as the Greek scholarly writings.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

watch youtube video:

Burke Lecture: Buddhism in a Global Age of Technology

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

watch the google video link above

Thomas McEvilley 'The Shape of Ancient Thought'

[Dude2012iffy]

In addition, I am not supporting his thesis on direct comparative rationalization of Greek and Indian philosophies, but rather that being human, they would derive similar philosophies. As for language influencing thought, why have we been so insistent on on changing the spelling and resultant pronunciation of the language we share so close to the English? To further declare our independence from them and to literally change the way our people think. Someone knew this to be true.

[Dude2012iffy]

The civilizations of the Indus Valley are traced to 3000 BCE, with recent archeological evidence dating it as early as 6000 BCE . The excavation of Harrappa and Mohenjo-daro give evidence to the existence of an urban civilization and of developing systems of architecture. The development included multi-level houses and city-wide plumbing. Stone seals with portrayals of real and imagined animals marked with Indus script of symbolic content, were discovered in 1873 in Macedonia and China.

[Seventh7Art]

@Dude2012iffy Greek civilization also began around 3000 BC although the earliest settlements date back to 8000 BC in the Aegean sea. Greeks definitely influenced Buddhist art. There is no doubt.

[Dude2012iffy]

@Seventh7Art -- Perhaps I should have made myself more clear in that not FULLY supporting his thesis. There is much evidence as to there having been some communication between these areas and with others as well. I also believe that the influence was equal to both sides. The ruins of Mojeno-daro had communal or public baths and plumbing. Not saying they had it first, just that they were there.

[KaligulaExMachina]

I just bought this book.

Mind Blowing.

[kaulentia]

fm a young girl my dad used to call me his little indian girl even though we have never been there and no known ancestors from india.yet we are not just fair but dark also, and have the same love for family, socialising, dancing and singing,philosophy and even travelling. if you notice there are indians and greeks all over the world and have kept their traditions and language thru generations .i wonder if there is a connexion.we even believe in the evil eye which is contrast to christianity

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

check out the google video link at top right, click more info.great video

[Dominicussen]

There are so many similarities between these two cultures, but I think it is very difficult to figure out, what the reasons for it could be. qaplatlhinganmaH have some interesting thoughts about it. I think some further clues could be made from the following three books: "Early Greek Philosophy and the Orient" by M. L. West; "The Origins and diversity of axial age civilizations" by S. N. Eisenstadt. and "A Comparative Study of Thirty City-State Cultures" by M. H. Hansen. Greetings Jon.

[batalvism]

when rest of the world swinging around trees, indians and greeks had developed mathematical theorems.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

Dominicussen

check out wikipedia

Greco-Buddhism

[Dominicussen]

I see you point qaplatlhinganmaH (That's a difficult name to spell) and I have read some of the material about it and the wikipedia articel. It's only the early period, I'm a little sceptical about. I am not sure how much information the Greeks or the Indians could have obtained from each other, when you read these crazy stories, that Herodotus wrote about the Indians. After Alexander it was another matter entirely. But before that, in the 6. and 5. century hmm...

[Dominicussen]

By the way. I know one who studies indo-european languages, who thinks, it could be some deep structure lying in the languages, common for all the indo-european languages, which explain the shared ideas, but that sounds way out in my opinion.

[Dutt93]

@Dominicussen I know what you're talking about but I don't really take Herodotus' writings of India into account because he never even visited India. All of his information is supposed to come from some other outside source.

[Dominicussen]

Well his theory would be interesting if it was true.

Where is his evidence?

Herodotus knowledge about India was confined to stories about ants the size of dogs running after gold. And we are supposed to imagine, that the Greeks got their philosophical ideas from India then?

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

Greco-Buddhism, sometimes spelt Graeco-Buddhism, refers to the cultural syncretism between Hellenistic culture and Buddhism, which developed between the 4th century BCE and the 5th century CE

[dirtyharree]

not bad, not bad

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

check out wikipedia:

Greco - Buddhism

[krichanthebatman]

Wonderfully explained!

[Euruproktos]

This guy is awesome. Just look at his book shelf! Greek Loeb library - a whole shelf of them - The Phaistos disk, haha awesome.