He's dishonestly tweeking the statistics: "70 percent of people who had some kind of homosexual male experience in their teens no longer consider themselves gay in any way." Yeah, but that's not 70% of people who were *gay identified!* Lots of people experiment. That can even include 2 guys jacking off together (thinking about playboy bunnies). Just because you experiment once in your life doesn't mean you're gay! He's fudging the numbers. Behavior has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
@darkage096 "technically they are retards or mentaly ill" No; their level of intelligence is not affected, so you're just talking out of your ass, and trying to draw parallels when there aren't any. No, they are not retards, case closed.
There's nothing to argue about, your subject was retarded.
You can't choose to be gay. If it's possible to choose it, do it. I want to see someone choose to be gay. Spend even 30 seconds to try and find yourself attracted to another man/woman. You can't.
If that's actually possible, I want to hear about you doing it. Why would someone choose to be gay anyways? Why would someone choose the hard path through life, knowing they'll likely not ever be accepted in society?
Sorry, bro. If it's a choice, do it. If you can't do it, it's not a choice.
It's not a conscious choice just like being depressed is something that we can't just change in 1 moment . it something that develops , and becomes part of us . until we get to the point where we feel comfortable inside it .
that said , no study has proved it to be something you are born with . and I do not hate gays ! they should be able to live that way if they want . but i am against the propoganda making thse false claims , what could be turning it into a social norm .
God made all people. God does not make mistakes. homosexuals are mistakes. to say they are born that way is as big as a lie as global warming. enough is enough quit trying to make people think they are stupid. YOU ARE NOT BORN THAT WAY. YOU CHOOSE TO CARRY OUT THAT DISGUSTING SIN.
1. 70% of men did some sort of homosexual activity with another. and that later in their lives they choose to be straight. - substantiate further because teenage years could be experimental. thus, it is not a choice but to discover who you really are from the beginning.
2. most people who have homosexual exp dont consider themselves as adults at 30/35+ homosexual. so is the study trying to show homos are kids unless they say theyre str8 so they'll be adults? wow.
Having an homosexual encounter as a teen or child is not the same as being homosexual. IT would be INTERESTING and RELEVANT if you could see such statistics appear in adults who've had several homosexual relationships.
This however, does not appear to happen.
And to write "The Politics Of Truth" without any kind of irony is, by definition, ironic.
The Nazi's and KKK agree with you, Gospel. Maybe they can help you accept yourself as the bigot everyone sees. I hear they even have camping outings so you can take your son to KKK Kamp instead of Boy Scouts, if that is your concern.
Hope you are Christian of course, they don't like non-christians, nope, not one bit.... Mormon? That ain't Christian, that's Scientology-Light...
Homosexuals have been married to females for centuries! Especially, when females were considered PROPERTY and males had all the Rights and Social Status!
Most homosexuals grew up under heavy Hetero-Pressure. Many of them did what their family's expected them to do. Many were terrified of their family's finding out they were Gay.
The vast majority of homosexuals are no different in appearance than the average heterosexual. If you want to base your argument on how people dress up at Parades ... then you have to do the same for heteros! Do Punk Rockers, Heavy Metal & Acid Rockers represent the heterosexual population?
Since nobody else could, will you pleaes give me an example of any time ever in the history of any people in the history of the entire universe where it has been illegal to call two fundamentally different things by different names?
of which both are under the catagory of a married couple no? yes i would agree men and women are fundamentally different but a person is a person no matter the sex gender orientation color etc.. and yes i believe love and lust between heteros and homos is identical.
If the love is identical, go ask one of your gay male friends to marry a woman instead. He will tell you that the feelings for a woman are different than those for a male. Keep telling him what you told me, that the feelings are the exact same, no difference. It will be pretty funny when you tell me the results of your experiment.
thats like me telling you to not love the woman you love and go love another woman. doesnt make sense.the only reason hed tell me his feelings are different is cuz he doesnt love a woman he would be in love with a different person..are your feelings for women the same for every single woman on earth? or do you prefer some woman over others? feelings are feelings..
they arent different just cuz of the people who have them and who they have them for. people are born with preferences..its not something you just change..
no duh they're different becuz he wont love a woman like he loves a man. and when u say 70 percent of men who have had a gay experience no longer consider themselves gay its becuz the a large portion of straight men in general have had gay experiences. a lot of straight guys who go fronting their heterosexuality do so, so defensively, because they themselves have had gay thoughts at one point or another and are trying to hide it up. its a defense mechanism.
Under my regime, everyone is allowed to marry the same people and prohibited from marrying the same people. Complete equality.
Further, everyone is free to call homosexuality and heterosexuality by the same or different names. Under your regime, everyone from the Boy Scouts to parents of elementary children to private adoption agencies are coerced and criminalized if they disagree with your exclusive view. That is tyranny.
Blocking Kaileo and anyone else who disagrees with you, will only bring more people over to the side of marriage equality. They will see your juvenile attitude to comments you don't agree with. They already see thru the lies you push. And that's why, really, your Mormon church is Tyranny Restored.
History? Can you show me any proof in history where children are better off being raised with a gender missing from the household than with a heterosexual couple? Can you give me a single instance where it has ever been illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names? Why start with the family? Because it is the fundamental unit of our society.
Why should marriage between a homosexual couple not be equal to that of a heterosexual couple?So we're talking about seperate but equal right?We're going back to the darkest time in our history where people could not be free to be who they were because of what they were.Isn't that unconstitutional to not provide the same freedom to everyone?And the only thing that defines a marriage between a man and woman is The Defense Marriage Act.The legal discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Separate but equal? When does a black person become like a homosexual? When they first choose to engage in homosexuality? When they become addicted to it? When they are born with the potential to choose homosexual beharior? Is a person born with anger management problems like a black person in the past because they dont get special protection for their behavior either? Confused.
Yes, seperate but equal. Yeah, we'll give homosexuals civil unions but only see them as domestic partnerships and deny them a majority of the rights a married couple has; that's constitutional. Discrimination is taking place. This time it isn't based on skin color, no this time it's based on sexual orientation. Just like the black people, homosexuals are being denied a majority of the rights they deserve.
Because we don't give differnt licenses to somebody with a different sexual orientation, they get a different license if they behave differently: marry someone of the same gender. I'm really not trying to make you look stupid.
You aren't making me look stupid... only yourself. Blocking people right and left because they don't agree with you... how childish. And really, your arguments are pitiful-- you keep posting the same things over and over, yet they are hardly rational since they have been proved false.
Remember, you're on the losing side of history. You and your church ARE going to lose this battle eventually. Remember that when the day comes.
Keep up the childish blocking... it only makes ya look bad!
Losing side of history? This has never happened before. When in the history of the world ever has it been illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names? Sorry, I'm not trying to give people a laugh, just trying to help you think a bit more.
You need to do the thinking... and you may not be trying to, but you probably are giving many people a good laugh. Slowly but surely, people are rejecting your argument (oft repeated, over and over and over again, ad nauseum) of "2 fundamentally different things" and recognizing that it's about equal civil rights. They know it's just not true.
You can argue any little detail you want but it comes down to love, and the ability of two adult individuals to join and build on that love.
People are allowed to love and build on that love. Nobody is stopping them. Gay or straight. This is a straw man argument, you just earned being blocked again.
The issue is whether it should be illegal for private individuals to call 2 fundamentally different things by differnt names. All people homo or hetero are treated the exact same: they are all given the opportunity to marry a person from the opposite gender. Any other arrangement is additional rights, not equal rights.
Forcing someone to marry someone they don't love might be like forcing parents to send their 11yo children camping with men who fantacize about sex with other males. (See Ginsburg dissent in Dale v. Boy Scouts). I think both are wrong. More freedom, less tyranny.
As for the whole anger management thing?People with anger management problems,lack the skills they need to help control their anger,so I would have to say no,they don't get special treatment because they just need to learn the skills that would help keep their temper in check.And do you think that you can honestly connect those things together?Do you think black people came here of their own free will to have their lives taken from them and to be denied simple freedoms? I think not.
"need to learn the skills..." Why can't they just act out how they were born, and be given special privileges because of it? Why should people have to be "treated" to be healed if they were born a certain way.
How are black people like people who don't restrain homosexual desires again?
Why can autistic children who can't control their behavior can be kicked out of church ebcause they're deemed too disrespectful and loud although they can't help it. And you can't heal anger management problems, you give people the skills they need to help them cope with their anger problems. And you aren;t born with anger problems, that happens when spoiled brats don't get their way.
If you're referring to disorders such as bipolar disorder where they can be either really hyper/angry or really depressed, that can be helped with medication. They need it in order to function as a member of society. And unless you live with someone that has bipolar disorder and has been hospitalized a few times for his outbursts, then you can shove it. You think you are making good arguments, but you aren't.
And humor me, if being gay is unnatural, why are there gay animals?
I mean, don't you find it funny that their main purpose in life is to reproduce and there are gay animals out there? Who taught them that if it's not natural, and are they going to go to hell for their "behaviors"? Did they learn those "behaviors" it from their straight counterparts or is it far beyond a behavioral level? Is it something that is more on a chemical and physical level, than a mental level?
Probably, but we aren't forcing people to call what the animals do "marriage". You are missing the entire point of our conversation: "what should we force people to call marriage."
Since when have we believed that whatever animals do should be called marriage, and when have we said that whatever animals do should be sanctioned and encouraged by the state?
But the government doesn't make it illegal for a black person with anger management problems to get married to someone they love. The issue is not what their behavior is, the issue is that the government is telling people who they can and can't marry. Which is unconstitutional.
Nope, states have been telling people they can't marry underage girls, relatives, mentally challenged, etc. since the beginning of our nation. It's not unconstitutional. I'm honestly not trying to make you look stupid. I am going to have to block you to make time for more intelligent comments.
SO I'm blocked for saying that it is unconstitutional to tell two non-related, healthy adults that they can't get married cause it doesn't agree with one religions beliefs. sounds unconstitutional to me
Religious beliefs are unconstitutional? Please reread the first 16 words of the bill of rights. You can quickly see that my right to practice religion is protected, your right to attack religion is not. Game over, you lose.
I never said religious beliefs are unconstitutional, just that basing a law around one is. There is NO evidence that being homosexual or homosexuals getting married harms anyone at all. That's why it should be legal.
Expanding the government to homosexual marriage is an expansion of government. Any expansion of government costs taxpayers. I am a taxpayer, therefore, I am affected.
Expensive lawyers and congressment didn't have to rewrite any laws when I got married. I didn't force anybody who disagreed with my marriage to accept it with expensive government lawyers, and policemen, under the threat of government impositions. I didn't fill up courts forcing everyon to accept my world view. Don't know what I'm talking about? Look up Guadalupe Benitez and Dale v. Boy Scouts and other cases where people were threatened with imprisonment if they had alternate views.
No the government didn't have to get involve with your marriage because they weren't people telling you you couldn't get married. If it wasn't ignorantly illegal in the first place then the government would not have to get involved.
What is disgusting, tho, is that you persist in spreading the lie that there is a disorder in which gay men like young boys. You're either completely ignorant of the truth, or you're saying that maliciously. Which is it?
Even Mormon psychologist don't believe that (I should know, I went to enough of them to "cure" being gay.)
Gays hate pedophilia more than heteros do, in part because of the lie that gays like little boys. We despise it!
Maybe not all homos are male pedophiles predators, any more than all heteros are female pedophile predators. What's your point?
Beat the straw man, and don't address the issue: "it should not be illegal to call different things by different names."
Can you give me any other example in the history of the world at any time where it was illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names?
The point is, you are lying when you say that gay people like little boys. This implies that you believe gays are pedophiles.
There's no straw man argument on my side. And as far as the statement "illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names", you'll need to be a bit less obtuse and explain yourself.
Thankfully, polls show you are on the losing side of history. The younger generation supports equal civil rights for gays.
I didn't say, "all gay people like little boys" any more than I said all heterosexuals like little girls. I am going to block you if you don't keep creating straw men.
If you want examples of making it illegal to call 2 different things by the same name, you didn't listen to the video.
Yes, most people agree with me that homosexual men should have the same rights as heterosexuals to marry the same people: not additional rights to marry an additional group of people.
Part 1: If you block me, it's because you don't like the nature of the argument and can't take the heat. Typical of Mormon men who think they're acting with authority.
There's no straw man here. 3 months ago, you made the comment: "No, there is a homosexual disorder to prefer young boy, look it up." You made it sound as if all gays like young boys, first because you didn't qualify your statement by saying "some" or a "few". By the way, there's no such disorder. Got references?
Part 2: Nothing in the audio uses the phrase "call 2 different things..."
However, I think that we can extrapolate that u think gay relationships are different from hetero. Obviously there's physical differences, BUT the LOVING relationship, where 2 unrelated adults promise publicly to honor, cherish & care for each other, is the same. Two halves make a whole, and for gay folk this means same-sex.
Personally, I think EVERYONE should get a civil union, & marriage be ONLY a religion thing.
The government has to be involved in marriage for practical reasons: child custody battles, child support, alimony, and it adds an element of exclusivity to a practice that has proven to be healthy and beneficial to our society.
Part 3: You did not pay attention. I told you that you are on the losing side of history. This is because most people under 30 believe that gays should have the right to marry am adult same-sex partner (who is not related to them). They do not fall for the lie that this is an "additional right". As the older generation dies out, this will become the law of the land... whether you like it or not.
I fully believe that J. Ginsburg's perverse world view that where parents form interactive/camping organization, 11 year old boys will be forced to go camping with men who fantacize about sex with other males (see Dale v. BSA). I am just trying to prevent that movement.
Gays do not forced you to not practice your religion; that is a blatant lie. There are two kinds of marriages, civil and religious. Granting civil marriage to gays does not in any way impede private religious organizations from teaching what they wish or marrying who they want to (or don't want to). NO gay wants to force any religion to do what they don't want to do.
Absolutely false: homosexual marriage but it also forces parents in religious organizations like the Boy Scouts to send their 11 yo camping w/ men who fantacize about sex w/ other males. Whether homosexuality is right or wrong, why force yourself into my religion? I would never do that to you? Guadalupe Benitez used the document of her marriage certificate as a weapon to force Dr. Brody to violate her religious beliefs. Get your facts straight.
Do you think everyone should be forced with threat of imprisonment and legal fines to call your relationship the same thing as heterosexuality? That is what this debate is about.
Yes, in the CIVIL arena, all people should be treated equally. Churches, including the Mormon church, can do what they wish in their private organizations. However, everyone deserves equal civil rights and this includes the right to marry the individual of your choice.
First of all, even YOU engage in additional sexual activities. I'm sure you do more than just penis to vagina sex.
2nd, your racist analogy is either obtuse or intentionally deceptive. Gay are not defined by sexual behavior alone. It is about who we are attracted to, and who we romantically love.
Interesting how you edited my post to remove references to male and female body parts. It's obvious that sex embarrasses you. And telling how you can really argue with my positions.
There's nothing wrong with sending ANY kids camping with gay men. What IS wrong is sending them camping with pedophiles. As any psychologist will tell you, they are two completely different things. It's only your ignorance holding you back.
"There's nothing wrong with sending ANY kids camping with gay men." Yes, but there is something wrong with forcing parents who form boys organizations to send boys camping with gay men.
As usual, you're wrong. Heterosexuals are the majority as are whites. Blacks are a minority, as are gays. Whether you deny it, or not. A majority is trying to take away the rights of a minority. That's wrong... whether you deny it, or not.
As for camping with gay men, if people don't want to follow what the law and the justices have said, they can leave that organization. No forcing involved. Therefore your argument is irrelevant.
This is not a choice. Why would one choose to be discriminated against, pilloried, outcast? When did any of you heterosexual people choose to be straight? Just because some people choose to experiment with one or the other doesn't make them that or this. They are who they are, regardless of the experimentation involved, and that experimentation won't change it. I'm gay and lost my virginity to a woman. Why? Because I was mortified to come out of the closet as myself.
I don't know if the desire is a choice, but controlling it certainly is. BTW, what does that have to do with whether it should be legal to refer to different activities by different names?
Click? Did you look up "different" and "equal" yet? I didn't think so since you base your entire argument on "difference" like any common racist or sexist would.
You have just moved your target away from skin color to sexual behavior.
So no, it does not click. I still do not see why you feel the need to discriminate against others who do not believe in the same things you do.
There are differences in every single person on the planet, why do you feel the need to discriminate against some?
Everybody is different and behaves differently, but there is no law to require people to call any two different behaviors by the same name for anything on the planet in the history of the world. Keep the goverment neutral on sexual preferences.
This guy is completely closed minded. Every time the other person tried to talk he got louder and talked over him, completely cutting him off. He was afraid to let the other guy make a point.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Just because a man happens to be homosexual doesn't automatically entail that he also be a pedophile. You're so wrong, it's depressing.
I've read homosexuality and the power of truth, it is full of bias statistics, picking and choosing what information he chooses to share in order to doubletalk you into agreeing with him.
If 100% of men who rape women fantasize about sex with women, then parents should not be forced to send their daughters camping w/ heterosexual men, any more than parents should be forced to send their sons camping with homosexual men.
If a group of parents want to organize a group to send their children camping, some of those men must be men who fantacize about sex with other men and act on those fantasies according to J. Ginsburg, or the organization should be closed down. Do you agree w/ J. Ginsburg? yes or no please.
No, because how would you explain the female camp coordinators in male camps? They have them, I've been to summer camp, and surely women fantasize about men, at least sometimes, well then they shouldn't be allowed to be there, because they'll just rape your child...
The point is that it is the parent's choice, not J. Ginsburg and the gay rights activists who my children go camping with.
BTW, the Boy Scout handbook requires females to sleep in different campsites. How do you and J. Ginsburg propose we handle that with men who fantacize about sex w/ other males?
I happen to be a gay male who proudly served in our United States Navy. I served for four years and got an honorable discharge. There was no misconduct sexual or otherwise on my part. What was that again? Where would you get the notion that all gay males just might be pedophiles as well?
Why should gay people have to "control themselves" and what are you implying by that. We can control the way we behave in public but we can't actually control who we're attracted to, no matter how hard we try. I tried living a straight life but it didn't work out because I wasn't happy, because I wasn't able to be me. Tell me, is that a healthy way to live? Why must we deny who we're in love with, when you don't have to make any sacrifices?
Dunno, I've never entertained same sex fantacies. What I do know is that the relationships are different, and it should not be against the law to say otherwise.
How would you know if the relationships were different? You've only played your side of the field. You don't know how it's like for us, but then again you do because all the feelings are the same! You just don't want to know you feel the same things as homosexuals, and are therefore not much different from us, but I'm not sure why. :\
Um, those were not married gay people. If we were to follow you argument, then any case of a man raping a woman would be a good reason to do away with marriage altogether.
Oh god this is ridiculous. Did you make the choice to be attracted to the opposite sex? Did you say one day, I think I will like women? Same for all. Why is homosexuality a choice of action but heterosexuality "normal"?
The video suggests there is no conclusive evidence as to whether homosexual feelings are a choice or not. Watch it again. There is a choice whether to act on it.
That is not much of a choice you present, either live your life following what you believe, or in misery.
How is that really a choice?
If someone is attracted to one person, but not another, are they really being presented with a "choice"? Isn't pursuing that which you are attracted to the only obvious option? While you can call it a choice of kinds, forcing yourself into misery is not a healthy choice.
Gay men aren't attracted to women? I thought men and women relationships were essentially the same as men and men relationships? Make up your mind. Yes or no: men and women are fundamentally different?
If you disagree, since you have used the "fundamental" word you will need to show some very severe differences, ones "determining essential structure or function"
Like archaea and eukaryotes are fundamentally different.
Please don't try that lame "sex organ" example, since both are derived from the intermediate mesoderm during fetal development, they are fundamentally the same in both sexes.
So lets hear it, what are FUNDAMENTAL differences you see between the two?
GospelRestored - but Gay people do not have the choice to love people of the opposite sex. You imply that all Gay people must be celibate to be accepted by God, that is pure bigotry. Equality means being able to marry the one you love - whether you are Gay or straight.
Earlier you implied that it meant NOT doing something.
Now control IS doing something.
Please help clarify what you mean by "homosexuals should control their desires", that they should only have "the most beautiful kind of committed relationship" like you?
That sounds great, but I am not sure how that should prevent them from being able to marry anyone they want.
just because a gay male has previously had sex with a female doesn't mean that he CHOSE to be gay. it could be that after having sexual enounters with women realize that it was't giving him any joy and he knew something had to change..wether it went from different kinds of women to men... it wasn't a choice but more of an accusation
My concern is that it doesn't make sense for the government to force people to call sexual relations with the same gender the same thing as sexual relations with the opposite gender.
GospelRestored - you should be more concerned if the government is saying that some people have legal rights and other people don't - based on their sexual orientation.
Family code Section 297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.
wegotitgood - You're right. I know a lot of Gay men who married women because of family pressure or the desire to "fit in" - it doesn't work. Either they live miserable lives or their spouse does, in any case, the marriage doesn't last long. No one can live a lie for very long.
You are missing the point. The only assertion I make here is that relationships between men and women are fundamentally different than those of the same gender: so it should not be illegal to call them by different names, we should respect everybody, and the gov't should stay neutral on the issue.
GospelRestored - You are missing the point. As an attorney I know that "domestic partners" do not have many of the same rights allowed to married couples (especially rights under federal law). I also know that it is discriminatory to provide rights to some couples because they are of different sexes and to deny the same rights to other couples because they are of the same sex. That is the holding of several states' supreme courts to date.
Give me an example of where homosexuals are treated differently than heterosexuals. We have no history in the world of requiring people to call two fundamentlly different things by the same name in the history of the world. Why start now?
GospelRestored - Bigots make that kind of argument all the time. You see a fundamental difference only because of your prejudices, not because any difference exists.
Sorry, I hate to make you look stupid in front of our readers, maybe you will learn to read the law like a lawyer should, rather than shooting from the hip calling everyone bigots who disagree with your self righteousness of political correctness.
I get enough comments from people like you that people obviously do care what I write. I lament that you can't come up with a coherent argument as to why it should be illegal to call 2 fundamentally different relationships by differrent names: so you call those who disagree "bigots". Very mature.
Please give me an example of someone who is having their rights stripped away?
Family code Section 297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.
GospelRestored - I have been a divorce attorney for thirty years - there is no difference between the relationships of opposite sex and same sex couples.
GospelRestored - and some people see a difference because of a person's skin color or ethnic background - that does not mean any real difference exists.
You left out the whole middle part where allowing gay marriage through overturning discriminatory federal laws like DoMA and state laws like CA's Prop 8 will lead to "costly lawsuits or imprisonment".
Can you fill in the blanks please?
How does eliminating laws based on sexual discrimination lead to imprisonment for you?
People are being imprisoned for not agreeing with the radical gay agenda. Look up David Parker in Massachusetts. Sorry, I thought you were more educated on the subject.
David Parker was arrested for trespassing, refusing to leave a public school after being asked over and over again by school officials and police, who were ultimately forced to remove him from the grounds by placing him under arrest.
He refused to bail himself out for the night to try and prove a point, something "which I'm not sure was a wise move," he said.
If an adult is hanging around a school and refusing to leave, OF COURSE YOU ARREST HIM, DUH! He was being an idiot.
Sorry, had to remove your expletive. And no, the problem doesn't disappear when we allow government to perpetuate the lie that homosexuality & heterosexuality are same. Many are forced by law to call them the same thing when the law endorses that position. To say otherwise is a lie, and you know if if you study the issue. Can you give me any example from the history of the world of 2 fundamentally different things that we require by law to be called by the same name?
GospelRestored - there was a time when the government treated people of different races differently - that is no different than treating people differently because of their sexual orientation.
i dont like these illogical dumb arguments. there is a difference; there is no such thing as a race and no good reason to change the law and force people to believe interracial couples are different and cant be married. homo sexuals ARE different from straight couples. and again, you dont have the right to FORCE people to believe homosexuality (not the impulse) is natural, moral, a marriage etc. see my playlist and comment OUTSIDE of those vids if u want me 2 see them. bye
Playitalready - The only illogical dumb arguments around here are the one's coming from you. You seem to think that there is a difference (between same sex and opposite sex couples) because you are bigoted. The difference is not in their relationship, it is in your approval or disapproval of their relationship.
There is a difference in the couples, because there is a difference between men and women. Do you believe all people who see fundamental differences b/w men and women are bigots?
atlavocat; name calling me and talking b.s. wont change my vote lol sorry. u ignored my confrontation on racism being different and the FACTS i stated. i guess your a biggot. homo couples are NOT the same as straight couples, regardless of your approval. straight couples have compatible body organs and the POTENTIAL to create a life. 2 men can never do that. guess u think mother nature is a biggot 2? again, you dont have the right to FORCE your pro homo beliefs on others. see my playlist
He's dishonestly tweeking the statistics: "70 percent of people who had some kind of homosexual male experience in their teens no longer consider themselves gay in any way." Yeah, but that's not 70% of people who were *gay identified!* Lots of people experiment. That can even include 2 guys jacking off together (thinking about playboy bunnies). Just because you experiment once in your life doesn't mean you're gay! He's fudging the numbers. Behavior has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
TheStrong32 9 months ago 5
If gays are born gay that means there brain is wired diffrent and technically they are retards or mentaly ill.... anyone want to argue?
darkage096 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@darkage096 "technically they are retards or mentaly ill" No; their level of intelligence is not affected, so you're just talking out of your ass, and trying to draw parallels when there aren't any. No, they are not retards, case closed.
There's nothing to argue about, your subject was retarded.
StrikaAmaru 8 months ago
You can't choose to be gay. If it's possible to choose it, do it. I want to see someone choose to be gay. Spend even 30 seconds to try and find yourself attracted to another man/woman. You can't.
If that's actually possible, I want to hear about you doing it. Why would someone choose to be gay anyways? Why would someone choose the hard path through life, knowing they'll likely not ever be accepted in society?
Sorry, bro. If it's a choice, do it. If you can't do it, it's not a choice.
bobmuffins 11 months ago
It's not a conscious choice just like being depressed is something that we can't just change in 1 moment . it something that develops , and becomes part of us . until we get to the point where we feel comfortable inside it .
that said , no study has proved it to be something you are born with . and I do not hate gays ! they should be able to live that way if they want . but i am against the propoganda making thse false claims , what could be turning it into a social norm .
MoonknightX9 1 year ago
God made all people. God does not make mistakes. homosexuals are mistakes. to say they are born that way is as big as a lie as global warming. enough is enough quit trying to make people think they are stupid. YOU ARE NOT BORN THAT WAY. YOU CHOOSE TO CARRY OUT THAT DISGUSTING SIN.
chaddavis333 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@chaddavis333 "to say they are born that way is as big as a lie as global warming. "
So it's not a lie at all? Cool.
bobmuffins 11 months ago
wait hang on there mr.radio,
1. 70% of men did some sort of homosexual activity with another. and that later in their lives they choose to be straight. - substantiate further because teenage years could be experimental. thus, it is not a choice but to discover who you really are from the beginning.
2. most people who have homosexual exp dont consider themselves as adults at 30/35+ homosexual. so is the study trying to show homos are kids unless they say theyre str8 so they'll be adults? wow.
justinlimkt 1 year ago
Having an homosexual encounter as a teen or child is not the same as being homosexual. IT would be INTERESTING and RELEVANT if you could see such statistics appear in adults who've had several homosexual relationships.
This however, does not appear to happen.
And to write "The Politics Of Truth" without any kind of irony is, by definition, ironic.
Rawnesss 1 year ago
The Nazi's and KKK agree with you, Gospel. Maybe they can help you accept yourself as the bigot everyone sees. I hear they even have camping outings so you can take your son to KKK Kamp instead of Boy Scouts, if that is your concern.
Hope you are Christian of course, they don't like non-christians, nope, not one bit.... Mormon? That ain't Christian, that's Scientology-Light...
PlanetOfTheMonkeys 2 years ago
too bad they're the majority...
LTheDetective3 1 year ago
Since you put so much confidence in books .. read the Amazon com title:
THE BIG PICTURE: A Cure for Homophobia
starmaYker 2 years ago
Homosexuals have been married to females for centuries! Especially, when females were considered PROPERTY and males had all the Rights and Social Status!
starmaYker 2 years ago 2
Most homosexuals grew up under heavy Hetero-Pressure. Many of them did what their family's expected them to do. Many were terrified of their family's finding out they were Gay.
I disagree with Dr Satinover's conclusions.
starmaYker 2 years ago 2
The vast majority of homosexuals are no different in appearance than the average heterosexual. If you want to base your argument on how people dress up at Parades ... then you have to do the same for heteros! Do Punk Rockers, Heavy Metal & Acid Rockers represent the heterosexual population?
starmaYker 2 years ago
Did any of you Bozos make a conscious decision to be Heterosexual? No you did not! What makes you Morons think Homosexuality is any different?
Read the Amazon com book titled:
THE BIG PICTURE: A Cure for Homophobia
starmaYker 2 years ago
Do you believe men and women are fundamentally different? Do you believe the love/lust/whatever it is between heteros and homos is identical?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
you notice how everytime someone proved you wrong you went on to a different excuse gays shouldnt be allowed to get married? just give it up dude.
ilovetittertot 2 years ago 2
Since nobody else could, will you pleaes give me an example of any time ever in the history of any people in the history of the entire universe where it has been illegal to call two fundamentally different things by different names?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
what are you refering to
?
ilovetittertot 2 years ago
please tell me your not trying to say that gay people getting married and straight people gettin married 2 fundamentally different things?
ilovetittertot 2 years ago
One is man&woman, the other man/man or woman/woman.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
of which both are under the catagory of a married couple no? yes i would agree men and women are fundamentally different but a person is a person no matter the sex gender orientation color etc.. and yes i believe love and lust between heteros and homos is identical.
ilovetittertot 2 years ago 2
If the love is identical, go ask one of your gay male friends to marry a woman instead. He will tell you that the feelings for a woman are different than those for a male. Keep telling him what you told me, that the feelings are the exact same, no difference. It will be pretty funny when you tell me the results of your experiment.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
thats like me telling you to not love the woman you love and go love another woman. doesnt make sense.the only reason hed tell me his feelings are different is cuz he doesnt love a woman he would be in love with a different person..are your feelings for women the same for every single woman on earth? or do you prefer some woman over others? feelings are feelings..
ilovetittertot 2 years ago 3
they arent different just cuz of the people who have them and who they have them for. people are born with preferences..its not something you just change..
ilovetittertot 2 years ago
no duh they're different becuz he wont love a woman like he loves a man. and when u say 70 percent of men who have had a gay experience no longer consider themselves gay its becuz the a large portion of straight men in general have had gay experiences. a lot of straight guys who go fronting their heterosexuality do so, so defensively, because they themselves have had gay thoughts at one point or another and are trying to hide it up. its a defense mechanism.
theeonionbagel 2 years ago
Under my regime, everyone is allowed to marry the same people and prohibited from marrying the same people. Complete equality.
Further, everyone is free to call homosexuality and heterosexuality by the same or different names. Under your regime, everyone from the Boy Scouts to parents of elementary children to private adoption agencies are coerced and criminalized if they disagree with your exclusive view. That is tyranny.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Blocking Kaileo and anyone else who disagrees with you, will only bring more people over to the side of marriage equality. They will see your juvenile attitude to comments you don't agree with. They already see thru the lies you push. And that's why, really, your Mormon church is Tyranny Restored.
Good luck with that.
TyrannyRestored 2 years ago 2
Still at it, huh? You do realize that you're on the wrong side of history?
Kaileo1 2 years ago 2
History? Can you show me any proof in history where children are better off being raised with a gender missing from the household than with a heterosexual couple? Can you give me a single instance where it has ever been illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names? Why start with the family? Because it is the fundamental unit of our society.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Why should marriage between a homosexual couple not be equal to that of a heterosexual couple?So we're talking about seperate but equal right?We're going back to the darkest time in our history where people could not be free to be who they were because of what they were.Isn't that unconstitutional to not provide the same freedom to everyone?And the only thing that defines a marriage between a man and woman is The Defense Marriage Act.The legal discrimination based on sexual orientation.
animejunkie4eva 2 years ago
Separate but equal? When does a black person become like a homosexual? When they first choose to engage in homosexuality? When they become addicted to it? When they are born with the potential to choose homosexual beharior? Is a person born with anger management problems like a black person in the past because they dont get special protection for their behavior either? Confused.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Yes, seperate but equal. Yeah, we'll give homosexuals civil unions but only see them as domestic partnerships and deny them a majority of the rights a married couple has; that's constitutional. Discrimination is taking place. This time it isn't based on skin color, no this time it's based on sexual orientation. Just like the black people, homosexuals are being denied a majority of the rights they deserve.
animejunkie4eva 2 years ago
Nope, the different treatment is not based on orientation, its based on behavior.
What is the behavior of black people that was different that is analagous?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
How is it based on behavior then, since you seem to be such an "expert".
animejunkie4eva 2 years ago
Because we don't give differnt licenses to somebody with a different sexual orientation, they get a different license if they behave differently: marry someone of the same gender. I'm really not trying to make you look stupid.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
You aren't making me look stupid... only yourself. Blocking people right and left because they don't agree with you... how childish. And really, your arguments are pitiful-- you keep posting the same things over and over, yet they are hardly rational since they have been proved false.
Remember, you're on the losing side of history. You and your church ARE going to lose this battle eventually. Remember that when the day comes.
Keep up the childish blocking... it only makes ya look bad!
Kaileo2 2 years ago
Losing side of history? This has never happened before. When in the history of the world ever has it been illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names? Sorry, I'm not trying to give people a laugh, just trying to help you think a bit more.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
You need to do the thinking... and you may not be trying to, but you probably are giving many people a good laugh. Slowly but surely, people are rejecting your argument (oft repeated, over and over and over again, ad nauseum) of "2 fundamentally different things" and recognizing that it's about equal civil rights. They know it's just not true.
You can argue any little detail you want but it comes down to love, and the ability of two adult individuals to join and build on that love.
Kaileo2 2 years ago
People are allowed to love and build on that love. Nobody is stopping them. Gay or straight. This is a straw man argument, you just earned being blocked again.
The issue is whether it should be illegal for private individuals to call 2 fundamentally different things by differnt names. All people homo or hetero are treated the exact same: they are all given the opportunity to marry a person from the opposite gender. Any other arrangement is additional rights, not equal rights.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
forcing someone to marry someone they dont love in the opposite gender is wrong
gays are looking for equal rights, not special rights
idaman12345 2 years ago 2
Forcing someone to marry someone they don't love might be like forcing parents to send their 11yo children camping with men who fantacize about sex with other males. (See Ginsburg dissent in Dale v. Boy Scouts). I think both are wrong. More freedom, less tyranny.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
As for the whole anger management thing?People with anger management problems,lack the skills they need to help control their anger,so I would have to say no,they don't get special treatment because they just need to learn the skills that would help keep their temper in check.And do you think that you can honestly connect those things together?Do you think black people came here of their own free will to have their lives taken from them and to be denied simple freedoms? I think not.
animejunkie4eva 2 years ago
"need to learn the skills..." Why can't they just act out how they were born, and be given special privileges because of it? Why should people have to be "treated" to be healed if they were born a certain way.
How are black people like people who don't restrain homosexual desires again?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Why can autistic children who can't control their behavior can be kicked out of church ebcause they're deemed too disrespectful and loud although they can't help it. And you can't heal anger management problems, you give people the skills they need to help them cope with their anger problems. And you aren;t born with anger problems, that happens when spoiled brats don't get their way.
animejunkie4eva 2 years ago
Whether anger managment is inborn or not is just as debagtable as homosexuality. Same amount of evidence. Sorry pal.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
If you're referring to disorders such as bipolar disorder where they can be either really hyper/angry or really depressed, that can be helped with medication. They need it in order to function as a member of society. And unless you live with someone that has bipolar disorder and has been hospitalized a few times for his outbursts, then you can shove it. You think you are making good arguments, but you aren't.
And humor me, if being gay is unnatural, why are there gay animals?
animejunkie4eva 2 years ago
I mean, don't you find it funny that their main purpose in life is to reproduce and there are gay animals out there? Who taught them that if it's not natural, and are they going to go to hell for their "behaviors"? Did they learn those "behaviors" it from their straight counterparts or is it far beyond a behavioral level? Is it something that is more on a chemical and physical level, than a mental level?
animejunkie4eva 2 years ago
Probably, but we aren't forcing people to call what the animals do "marriage". You are missing the entire point of our conversation: "what should we force people to call marriage."
GospelRestored 2 years ago
I didn't say being gay was unnatural. (straw man).
And BTW, since when have we believed that whatever animals do should be called marriage?
Medications have not been able to help all anger management issues.
You have no intelligent arguments. I am going to have to block you.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Since when have we believed that whatever animals do should be called marriage, and when have we said that whatever animals do should be sanctioned and encouraged by the state?
Sorry, that's a wierd argument. You get blocked.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
But the government doesn't make it illegal for a black person with anger management problems to get married to someone they love. The issue is not what their behavior is, the issue is that the government is telling people who they can and can't marry. Which is unconstitutional.
dakotadenverdexter 2 years ago
Nope, states have been telling people they can't marry underage girls, relatives, mentally challenged, etc. since the beginning of our nation. It's not unconstitutional. I'm honestly not trying to make you look stupid. I am going to have to block you to make time for more intelligent comments.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
SO I'm blocked for saying that it is unconstitutional to tell two non-related, healthy adults that they can't get married cause it doesn't agree with one religions beliefs. sounds unconstitutional to me
dakotadenverdexter 2 years ago
Religious beliefs are unconstitutional? Please reread the first 16 words of the bill of rights. You can quickly see that my right to practice religion is protected, your right to attack religion is not. Game over, you lose.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
I never said religious beliefs are unconstitutional, just that basing a law around one is. There is NO evidence that being homosexual or homosexuals getting married harms anyone at all. That's why it should be legal.
dakotadenverdexter 2 years ago
Expanding the government to homosexual marriage is an expansion of government. Any expansion of government costs taxpayers. I am a taxpayer, therefore, I am affected.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
It doesn't cost the government anymore for homosexuals to get married than it does for you to get married.
dakotadenverdexter 2 years ago
Expensive lawyers and congressment didn't have to rewrite any laws when I got married. I didn't force anybody who disagreed with my marriage to accept it with expensive government lawyers, and policemen, under the threat of government impositions. I didn't fill up courts forcing everyon to accept my world view. Don't know what I'm talking about? Look up Guadalupe Benitez and Dale v. Boy Scouts and other cases where people were threatened with imprisonment if they had alternate views.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
No the government didn't have to get involve with your marriage because they weren't people telling you you couldn't get married. If it wasn't ignorantly illegal in the first place then the government would not have to get involved.
dakotadenverdexter 2 years ago
Nobody is stopping you from having a homosexual gay wedding ceremony. It is not illegal.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
OK, looks like the actual words are back.
What is disgusting, tho, is that you persist in spreading the lie that there is a disorder in which gay men like young boys. You're either completely ignorant of the truth, or you're saying that maliciously. Which is it?
Even Mormon psychologist don't believe that (I should know, I went to enough of them to "cure" being gay.)
Gays hate pedophilia more than heteros do, in part because of the lie that gays like little boys. We despise it!
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Beating a straw man, eh?
Maybe not all homos are male pedophiles predators, any more than all heteros are female pedophile predators. What's your point?
Beat the straw man, and don't address the issue: "it should not be illegal to call different things by different names."
Can you give me any other example in the history of the world at any time where it was illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
The point is, you are lying when you say that gay people like little boys. This implies that you believe gays are pedophiles.
There's no straw man argument on my side. And as far as the statement "illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names", you'll need to be a bit less obtuse and explain yourself.
Thankfully, polls show you are on the losing side of history. The younger generation supports equal civil rights for gays.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
I didn't say, "all gay people like little boys" any more than I said all heterosexuals like little girls. I am going to block you if you don't keep creating straw men.
If you want examples of making it illegal to call 2 different things by the same name, you didn't listen to the video.
Yes, most people agree with me that homosexual men should have the same rights as heterosexuals to marry the same people: not additional rights to marry an additional group of people.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Part 1: If you block me, it's because you don't like the nature of the argument and can't take the heat. Typical of Mormon men who think they're acting with authority.
There's no straw man here. 3 months ago, you made the comment: "No, there is a homosexual disorder to prefer young boy, look it up." You made it sound as if all gays like young boys, first because you didn't qualify your statement by saying "some" or a "few". By the way, there's no such disorder. Got references?
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Any rational person will agree that if a homosexual has a desire for young boys it is an unhealthy disorder. I stand by any statement to that effect.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Part 2: Nothing in the audio uses the phrase "call 2 different things..."
However, I think that we can extrapolate that u think gay relationships are different from hetero. Obviously there's physical differences, BUT the LOVING relationship, where 2 unrelated adults promise publicly to honor, cherish & care for each other, is the same. Two halves make a whole, and for gay folk this means same-sex.
Personally, I think EVERYONE should get a civil union, & marriage be ONLY a religion thing.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
The government has to be involved in marriage for practical reasons: child custody battles, child support, alimony, and it adds an element of exclusivity to a practice that has proven to be healthy and beneficial to our society.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Part 3: You did not pay attention. I told you that you are on the losing side of history. This is because most people under 30 believe that gays should have the right to marry am adult same-sex partner (who is not related to them). They do not fall for the lie that this is an "additional right". As the older generation dies out, this will become the law of the land... whether you like it or not.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
I fully believe that J. Ginsburg's perverse world view that where parents form interactive/camping organization, 11 year old boys will be forced to go camping with men who fantacize about sex with other males (see Dale v. BSA). I am just trying to prevent that movement.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Gays do not forced you to not practice your religion; that is a blatant lie. There are two kinds of marriages, civil and religious. Granting civil marriage to gays does not in any way impede private religious organizations from teaching what they wish or marrying who they want to (or don't want to). NO gay wants to force any religion to do what they don't want to do.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Absolutely false: homosexual marriage but it also forces parents in religious organizations like the Boy Scouts to send their 11 yo camping w/ men who fantacize about sex w/ other males. Whether homosexuality is right or wrong, why force yourself into my religion? I would never do that to you? Guadalupe Benitez used the document of her marriage certificate as a weapon to force Dr. Brody to violate her religious beliefs. Get your facts straight.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Well... I had sex with a girl when i was 16, but today i'm like SO tataly gay. Ewerybody is a bit confused in when they're teens.
heipaadegduP 2 years ago
Irrelevant to our discussion.
Do you think everyone should be forced with threat of imprisonment and legal fines to call your relationship the same thing as heterosexuality? That is what this debate is about.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Yes, in the CIVIL arena, all people should be treated equally. Churches, including the Mormon church, can do what they wish in their private organizations. However, everyone deserves equal civil rights and this includes the right to marry the individual of your choice.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Yes, treat everyone the same, and don't give additional rights to people who engage in addition al sexual activities. Got it.
Are you one of these racists that believes black people are analagous to people that don't control a sexual behavior?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
First of all, even YOU engage in additional sexual activities. I'm sure you do more than just penis to vagina sex.
2nd, your racist analogy is either obtuse or intentionally deceptive. Gay are not defined by sexual behavior alone. It is about who we are attracted to, and who we romantically love.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Interesting how you edited my post to remove references to male and female body parts. It's obvious that sex embarrasses you. And telling how you can really argue with my positions.
There's nothing wrong with sending ANY kids camping with gay men. What IS wrong is sending them camping with pedophiles. As any psychologist will tell you, they are two completely different things. It's only your ignorance holding you back.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
"There's nothing wrong with sending ANY kids camping with gay men." Yes, but there is something wrong with forcing parents who form boys organizations to send boys camping with gay men.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Neither Heterosexuals are like white people nor are homosexuals like black people. Neither have anything to do with race.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
As usual, you're wrong. Heterosexuals are the majority as are whites. Blacks are a minority, as are gays. Whether you deny it, or not. A majority is trying to take away the rights of a minority. That's wrong... whether you deny it, or not.
As for camping with gay men, if people don't want to follow what the law and the justices have said, they can leave that organization. No forcing involved. Therefore your argument is irrelevant.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
This is not a choice. Why would one choose to be discriminated against, pilloried, outcast? When did any of you heterosexual people choose to be straight? Just because some people choose to experiment with one or the other doesn't make them that or this. They are who they are, regardless of the experimentation involved, and that experimentation won't change it. I'm gay and lost my virginity to a woman. Why? Because I was mortified to come out of the closet as myself.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
I don't know if the desire is a choice, but controlling it certainly is. BTW, what does that have to do with whether it should be legal to refer to different activities by different names?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
I can hear all the opinions you want.
I do not talk for anybody but myself,
I WAS BORN GAY and since my creator ( according to some fairy tale book ) made me at HIS OWN IMAGE....
GOD IS GAY and he made me his equal because, after he tasted the "snake", he said:
SNAKE IS GOOD !
eutuve 2 years ago 2
Comment makes no sense. Gotta block ya.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored wonders: "Gay men aren't attracted to women?"
ROTFLMAO!!!!
Do you not know what the word homosexual even means?
Why are you discussing a subject when you DO NOT EVEN KNOW THE MEANING OF WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED?
Get an education please, you are wasting a lot of people's time with your fallacious (look it up) arguments.
phricak 2 years ago
So if gay men aren't attracted to women, then there must be a difference between men and women.
If you follow logic, then there must be a difference between relationships between same gender compared to opposite gender.
Starting to click yet?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Click? Did you look up "different" and "equal" yet? I didn't think so since you base your entire argument on "difference" like any common racist or sexist would.
You have just moved your target away from skin color to sexual behavior.
So no, it does not click. I still do not see why you feel the need to discriminate against others who do not believe in the same things you do.
There are differences in every single person on the planet, why do you feel the need to discriminate against some?
phricak 2 years ago
Everybody is different and behaves differently, but there is no law to require people to call any two different behaviors by the same name for anything on the planet in the history of the world. Keep the goverment neutral on sexual preferences.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
This guy is completely closed minded. Every time the other person tried to talk he got louder and talked over him, completely cutting him off. He was afraid to let the other guy make a point.
calimntgirl34 2 years ago 2
Gay people shouldn't force parents to send their 11 yo sons camping w/ homosexual men as J. Ginsburg believes. (see Dale v. BSA)
GospelRestored 2 years ago
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Just because a man happens to be homosexual doesn't automatically entail that he also be a pedophile. You're so wrong, it's depressing.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
I've read homosexuality and the power of truth, it is full of bias statistics, picking and choosing what information he chooses to share in order to doubletalk you into agreeing with him.
YamiRedYami 2 years ago 2
What important statistics did he leave out? That 100% of men who molest boys fantacize about sexual experiences with other males?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
And 100% of men who rape women fantasize about sex with women! They also drink water and breath air.
So what is your point? Do you know what a blatantly fallacious argument you have tried to present here?
phricak 2 years ago
If 100% of men who rape women fantasize about sex with women, then parents should not be forced to send their daughters camping w/ heterosexual men, any more than parents should be forced to send their sons camping with homosexual men.
See Dale v. Boy Scouts of America.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Are the camping police forcing you to do something?
Boy Scouts in your town have a gestapo that forces you to go with them?
Who is forcing you to do anything?
Please stop this stupid line of illogical thinking, it is irrelevant to the issue of equality and human rights.
phricak 2 years ago
If a group of parents want to organize a group to send their children camping, some of those men must be men who fantacize about sex with other men and act on those fantasies according to J. Ginsburg, or the organization should be closed down. Do you agree w/ J. Ginsburg? yes or no please.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
No, because how would you explain the female camp coordinators in male camps? They have them, I've been to summer camp, and surely women fantasize about men, at least sometimes, well then they shouldn't be allowed to be there, because they'll just rape your child...
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago 2
The point is that it is the parent's choice, not J. Ginsburg and the gay rights activists who my children go camping with.
BTW, the Boy Scout handbook requires females to sleep in different campsites. How do you and J. Ginsburg propose we handle that with men who fantacize about sex w/ other males?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
I happen to be a gay male who proudly served in our United States Navy. I served for four years and got an honorable discharge. There was no misconduct sexual or otherwise on my part. What was that again? Where would you get the notion that all gay males just might be pedophiles as well?
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago 2
GospelRestored - You sound like the type of person who would molest children.
Atlavocat 2 years ago
You're implying that gay people are degenerates who can't control themselves. Well, men in general, actually. Is that how you view yourself?
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
It is the opposite. I am implying gay people are empowered and can control themselves.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Why should gay people have to "control themselves" and what are you implying by that. We can control the way we behave in public but we can't actually control who we're attracted to, no matter how hard we try. I tried living a straight life but it didn't work out because I wasn't happy, because I wasn't able to be me. Tell me, is that a healthy way to live? Why must we deny who we're in love with, when you don't have to make any sacrifices?
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago 3
Dunno, I've never entertained same sex fantacies. What I do know is that the relationships are different, and it should not be against the law to say otherwise.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
How would you know if the relationships were different? You've only played your side of the field. You don't know how it's like for us, but then again you do because all the feelings are the same! You just don't want to know you feel the same things as homosexuals, and are therefore not much different from us, but I'm not sure why. :\
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
I know the relationships are different because the gender combination is different, and men and women are different.
Do you think men and women are fundamentally different?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
The love is the same, is my point. What's yours?
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
Gay people shouldn't force parents to send their 11 yo sons camping w/ homosexual men as J. Ginsburg believes. (see Dale v. BSA)
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Gay people should control themselves? Really? Hmmm... so you're saying it's a choice, huh? Let's see YOU choose to be gay.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Gay people shouldn't force parents to send their 11 yo sons camping w/ homosexual men as J. Ginsburg believes. (see Dale v. BSA)
GospelRestored 2 years ago
So if someone is a homosexual man they are doomed no matter what...unless they dupe an unsuspecting woman in to a sham of a marriage?
I don't get it...what's your point here?
ConstantViewer 2 years ago
My point? It should not be illegal to call 2 fundamentally different things by different names. Yes on 8.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Um, those were not married gay people. If we were to follow you argument, then any case of a man raping a woman would be a good reason to do away with marriage altogether.
ConstantViewer 2 years ago
Nope, unbridled sexual perversions are more common in homosexuality.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Oh god this is ridiculous. Did you make the choice to be attracted to the opposite sex? Did you say one day, I think I will like women? Same for all. Why is homosexuality a choice of action but heterosexuality "normal"?
SumireIsrafel 2 years ago 2
I have never asserted that having an attraction to a particular gender is a choice. Please don't waste my time with irrelevant discussions.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Excuse me, but the first 10 seconds of this video discuss just that. One person says it is a choice, the other does not agree.
How can the topic of calling homosexuality a choice be "irrelevant" when it is the opening topic of your video?
Do you even watch your own videos?
phricak 2 years ago
The video suggests there is no conclusive evidence as to whether homosexual feelings are a choice or not. Watch it again. There is a choice whether to act on it.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
That is not much of a choice you present, either live your life following what you believe, or in misery.
How is that really a choice?
If someone is attracted to one person, but not another, are they really being presented with a "choice"? Isn't pursuing that which you are attracted to the only obvious option? While you can call it a choice of kinds, forcing yourself into misery is not a healthy choice.
phricak 2 years ago
I control sexual desires all the time, and it brings me great happiness and fulfillment to do so. You should try it.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Oh, you're back...
??? We were talking about CHOICE, not CONTROL.
Did you get that dictionary like I asked you to? I recommend you do ASAP.
Can you, for once, STAY ON TOPIC?
Tell us about how your mind finds one thing attractive, but you have forced yourself to "choose" something you do not find attractive at all.
We are waiting to hear your example.
phricak 2 years ago
Gay men aren't attracted to women? I thought men and women relationships were essentially the same as men and men relationships? Make up your mind. Yes or no: men and women are fundamentally different?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
I can't stop laughing at how you do not even know the very definition of the words gay and homosexual. A little refresher for you:
Homosexual - Someone who finds member of the same sex attractive
Heterosexual - Someone who finds members of the opposite sex attractive.
Bisexual - someone who find both sexes attractive.
Root words for "homo", "hetero" and "bi" mean "alike", "different" and "two", respectively.
If you do not understand simple words, how do you expect to make a logical argument?
phricak 2 years ago
Back on topic. Yes or no: men and women are fundamentally different?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
No they are not.
If you disagree, since you have used the "fundamental" word you will need to show some very severe differences, ones "determining essential structure or function"
Like archaea and eukaryotes are fundamentally different.
Please don't try that lame "sex organ" example, since both are derived from the intermediate mesoderm during fetal development, they are fundamentally the same in both sexes.
So lets hear it, what are FUNDAMENTAL differences you see between the two?
phricak 2 years ago
I thought you had children?
Looks like you did not control those sexual desires after all.
phricak 2 years ago
I disciplined and focused my sexual desires in an enriching way, and it has given me a beautiful family.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored - but Gay people do not have the choice to love people of the opposite sex. You imply that all Gay people must be celibate to be accepted by God, that is pure bigotry. Equality means being able to marry the one you love - whether you are Gay or straight.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 2
I love lots of people I don't marry. I control sexual desires all of the time. It enriches my life.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
We were talking about CHOICE, not CONTROL.
Did you get that dictionary?
Can you, for once, STAY ON TOPIC?
phricak 2 years ago
Controlling a desire is a choice.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
But you have children
It looks to me like you did not control anything at all and had sex instead, aka following your desires.
phricak 2 years ago
Controlling my sexual desires has given me the most beautiful kind of committed relationship with my family imaginable.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
So then what does "control" mean to you?
Earlier you implied that it meant NOT doing something.
Now control IS doing something.
Please help clarify what you mean by "homosexuals should control their desires", that they should only have "the most beautiful kind of committed relationship" like you?
That sounds great, but I am not sure how that should prevent them from being able to marry anyone they want.
So equality is the issue at hand, not control.
Why do you see them as not equal?
phricak 2 years ago
I see them as equal with the same rights to marry the same people I do: the behavior is different.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
just because a gay male has previously had sex with a female doesn't mean that he CHOSE to be gay. it could be that after having sexual enounters with women realize that it was't giving him any joy and he knew something had to change..wether it went from different kinds of women to men... it wasn't a choice but more of an accusation
wegotitgood 2 years ago 2
My concern is that it doesn't make sense for the government to force people to call sexual relations with the same gender the same thing as sexual relations with the opposite gender.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored - you should be more concerned if the government is saying that some people have legal rights and other people don't - based on their sexual orientation.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 3
you've been misinformed.
Family code Section 297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
That is California law, not federal. California, the one that does not allow Gay Marriage...
Nice attempt to misinform the population. You should cite the other 49 version of that passage to be complete.
phricak 2 years ago
wegotitgood - You're right. I know a lot of Gay men who married women because of family pressure or the desire to "fit in" - it doesn't work. Either they live miserable lives or their spouse does, in any case, the marriage doesn't last long. No one can live a lie for very long.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 3
You are missing the point. The only assertion I make here is that relationships between men and women are fundamentally different than those of the same gender: so it should not be illegal to call them by different names, we should respect everybody, and the gov't should stay neutral on the issue.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored - You are missing the point. As an attorney I know that "domestic partners" do not have many of the same rights allowed to married couples (especially rights under federal law). I also know that it is discriminatory to provide rights to some couples because they are of different sexes and to deny the same rights to other couples because they are of the same sex. That is the holding of several states' supreme courts to date.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 3
Give me an example of where homosexuals are treated differently than heterosexuals. We have no history in the world of requiring people to call two fundamentlly different things by the same name in the history of the world. Why start now?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored - Bigots make that kind of argument all the time. You see a fundamental difference only because of your prejudices, not because any difference exists.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 5
No differences exist between men and women? Are you saying only bigots see a difference between choosing b/w marrying a man or a woman?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Sorry, I hate to make you look stupid in front of our readers, maybe you will learn to read the law like a lawyer should, rather than shooting from the hip calling everyone bigots who disagree with your self righteousness of political correctness.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored - you really are an ego freak. Do you honestly think anyone cares what you write? Bigots like you are a dime a dozen.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 4
I get enough comments from people like you that people obviously do care what I write. I lament that you can't come up with a coherent argument as to why it should be illegal to call 2 fundamentally different relationships by differrent names: so you call those who disagree "bigots". Very mature.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Please give me an example of someone who is having their rights stripped away?
Family code Section 297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored - I have been a divorce attorney for thirty years - there is no difference between the relationships of opposite sex and same sex couples.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 2
yes there is. One is a relationship b/w opposite genders, the other is not.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored - and some people see a difference because of a person's skin color or ethnic background - that does not mean any real difference exists.
Atlavocat 2 years ago
Are you comparing differences between genders to the differences between races?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Vocabulary is not your strong suit, GR...
"Different" is not the same word as "unequal". "Same" is not equivalent to "equal".
There are differences in every thing on this planet.
Equality is the issue at hand, but somehow you fail to get it.
Just because you see it as "fundamentally different" does not mean everyone else shares your views.
If you were to have "sympathy for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own", then you would be "Tolerant", but you're not...
phricak 2 years ago
My tolerant view of the world says people can call heter/homo relationships whatever they want.
Your view of tolerance says people have to use your nomenclature of face costly lawsuits or imprisonment.
Hmmm. Which version of "tolerant" sounds right?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
You left out the whole middle part where allowing gay marriage through overturning discriminatory federal laws like DoMA and state laws like CA's Prop 8 will lead to "costly lawsuits or imprisonment".
Can you fill in the blanks please?
How does eliminating laws based on sexual discrimination lead to imprisonment for you?
You are not making much sense.
phricak 2 years ago
People are being imprisoned for not agreeing with the radical gay agenda. Look up David Parker in Massachusetts. Sorry, I thought you were more educated on the subject.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
David Parker was arrested for trespassing, refusing to leave a public school after being asked over and over again by school officials and police, who were ultimately forced to remove him from the grounds by placing him under arrest.
He refused to bail himself out for the night to try and prove a point, something "which I'm not sure was a wise move," he said.
If an adult is hanging around a school and refusing to leave, OF COURSE YOU ARREST HIM, DUH! He was being an idiot.
Nice try, but fail.
phricak 2 years ago 2
Can you please at least answer my question instead of throwing out another vague and misleading "example":
Describe the series of events that go between overturning DoMA and Prop 8 to you landing in prison.
Thanks
phricak 2 years ago
Dave Parker is a reality that every parent who doesn't march lockstep with the nazis of homosexuality is threatened with.
GospelRestored 2 years ago
Sorry, had to remove your expletive. And no, the problem doesn't disappear when we allow government to perpetuate the lie that homosexuality & heterosexuality are same. Many are forced by law to call them the same thing when the law endorses that position. To say otherwise is a lie, and you know if if you study the issue. Can you give me any example from the history of the world of 2 fundamentally different things that we require by law to be called by the same name?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
GospelRestored - there was a time when the government treated people of different races differently - that is no different than treating people differently because of their sexual orientation.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 2
i dont like these illogical dumb arguments. there is a difference; there is no such thing as a race and no good reason to change the law and force people to believe interracial couples are different and cant be married. homo sexuals ARE different from straight couples. and again, you dont have the right to FORCE people to believe homosexuality (not the impulse) is natural, moral, a marriage etc. see my playlist and comment OUTSIDE of those vids if u want me 2 see them. bye
Playitalready 2 years ago
Playitalready - The only illogical dumb arguments around here are the one's coming from you. You seem to think that there is a difference (between same sex and opposite sex couples) because you are bigoted. The difference is not in their relationship, it is in your approval or disapproval of their relationship.
Atlavocat 2 years ago 2
There is a difference in the couples, because there is a difference between men and women. Do you believe all people who see fundamental differences b/w men and women are bigots?
GospelRestored 2 years ago
atlavocat; name calling me and talking b.s. wont change my vote lol sorry. u ignored my confrontation on racism being different and the FACTS i stated. i guess your a biggot. homo couples are NOT the same as straight couples, regardless of your approval. straight couples have compatible body organs and the POTENTIAL to create a life. 2 men can never do that. guess u think mother nature is a biggot 2? again, you dont have the right to FORCE your pro homo beliefs on others. see my playlist
Playitalready 2 years ago