Medved immediately comes to the defense of slave wages. Tells you all you need to know about how cons wrecked the economy. Then Hartmann completely catches him off guard when he uses repub Teddy Roosevelt's explanation of a living wage.
TR was one of the few repubs that understood people need to be paid a decent wage if you don't want to destroy the consumer market which is the engine of the economy.
this guy is allowed on the mans airwaves because he is clearly sucking up to all of their transposed rhetoric. he has no thoughts of his own, he is led down the primrose path and then leads you with him. There is nothing wrong with having or making a lot of money. How you got that money though is another thing. quite simply put, taxes are not necessary. the money gets printed when it comes to paying for certain things. thom will say that will lead to hyper inflation. i say the earth is not flat.
I wish Thom Hartmann had as many radio stations as Rush Limbaugh. Maybe then Americans would understand how badly they have been burned by the government policies of the past 25 years that have favored the richest Americans.
i listen to thom hartmann every afternoon on chicagos progressive talk, a fairly mainstream channel, but depending on where you are located, you may/may not find the station. Alot of people tune in for him as well, he hosts from 2-5 p.m. (wcpt am/fm) you can also find it streaming online or perhaps find out which radio frequency its on.
haha. i'm with you, i will instead take my talking points from someone whose qualifications are (1)dropping out of yale law, (2)believing in sasquatch and (3) rising to fame by writing hackneyed movie reviews. Now THERE'S a person who obviously knows what he's talking about.
Thom speaks facts, and works those facts with pragmatism.
Republicans HATE that. They want to talk ideology. Archaic ideology, at that.
"Gov't is evil bureaucracy!" Sure... and health insurance isn't? Does insurance itself cure anybody? No, it doesn't. Insurance IS bureaucracy, and we'd be better off under a collective, nationwide, gov't-backed policy.
But with our populace... It'll never happen. We want our "freedom", freedom to be collectively ripped-off for for-profit companies instead.
Well let me be the first to say that I object to the socialist police dept., the socialist fire dept., the socialist public streets, the socialist water systems, the socialist public housing, and every aspect of socialism. It doesn't work.
People must be given an incentive to do well. Want proof? How would you perform at your job if your employer said that they were going to give you your paycheck, every Friday, regardless of your performance? How long would your company stay profitable?
You'd better cancel your internet service right away then. The net was developed with dirty, tainted, socialist DOD (DARPA) money. Also, to help you stay ideologically pure, if your house is burning down we'll all stand around and bid on the job of putting the fire out.
1. I said the Defense Dept. DEVELOPED the internet. Of course it was privatized after it was clear there was money to be made. Profits are privatized and risks are socialized. They call that "free enterprise" with a straight face.
There is quite a few things that a socialized government may have established; however, private companies can run them better, be more efficient, and innovate. Best part is a company can be held accountable.
Wasn't it our socialist president that said "Fedex and UPS are doing well, it is the post office that is always in trouble." Wasn't also our government established post office that said overnight delivery was impossible before UPS/Fedex?
Obama said "Fedex and UPS are doing well, it is the post office that is always in trouble." And it beautifully fucking illustrated his point. If a private company can do something more efficiently than the state then they should be able to prove it. Can you prove it? Was Enron better at running the California power grid than Edison? Nope, the fucking lights didn't come on when you flipped a switch about half the time and millions of $ were lost to waste and graft under the private system.
Thank you again for proving my point. More private companies would step up if the government just go the hell out of the way. Private companies will continue to make the government look foolish because there is no incentive for government to improve. What is with you liberal malcontents?
Oh yeah, using profanity doesn't help you get your point across. It makes you look ignorant.
Enron went out of business. The government is still here, wasting money as usual. What about National debt?
Private tyrannies (corporations) are uncountable to the public because CEOs have a mandate to maximize shareholder profit, not to maximize public benefit. Elected officials, on the other hand, are agents of We the People. We can vote them out of office when they screw us.
I moved the Einstein comment to this thread to make sure you would see it. Look at the bottom of the page.
Obviously those words don't scare you because you are a spoiled indoctrinated American who has no idea what its like to live in a 3rd world country. The poor in this country have it a heck of a better time than the poor in ALL third world countries.
Companies are not out for the public benefit. The farmer who provides my children milk doesn't do it because he loves them. He does it for profit.
You want a company that caters for the public benefit, then by all means you start one.
2. Rural/Metro is your best example? Those corrupt fuckers got busted by the feds to the tune of $2.5 million for over billing hospitals in TX. And if you ever call 911 make sure to tell them you don't want the private ambulance to drive on any of those socialistic public streets to get to your house.
How can we hold your buddies at Rural/Metro accountable? Their profits are guaranteed by long term state contracts. They can overbill and fuck shit up to their hearts' content.
Corporations can only be held accountable in court and they can afford better lawyers than we can.
Soc. Sec. and Medicare save millions of elderly people, widows and orphans from disease and destitution. What's insane is that you consider that a failure.
I didn't know Rural/Metro were my "buddies." I gave an example of a private company that provides emergency services. Maybe more companies would compete if the government got out of the way.
Social security/Medicare is a joke. It is an admission that the government can better invest your money than you can. Taking from the haves to give to the have nots = communism.
'Give me Liberty, or give me Death!" -Patrick Henry The saying was never "give me Healthcare/safety/security or give me death"
By the way, the quote you're looking for is: "Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results." And it was a writer named Rita Mae Brown who said it, not Einstein.
BTW, Mr. pervert/pedophile, go back to taking video of girls on the street instead of commenting on subjects where you have no expertise.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone is paying when its the government providing. Anytime you take away from someone to give to someone else amounts to communism. How is taking money from people to give to other any different from what pirates do?
You need to go read some books and get the indoctrination out of your system.
I see. Taxation is theft because we have a right to squat in the US and benefit from defense, infrastructure, police, courts, etc. without obligation, right?
Wrong. Here's how America works: You pay your taxes and you don't break the law -- that's your end of the social contract. In return, you get to live in this great and free country.
Excessive taxation is theft. The right want to bail out private companies, the left want to bail out welfare recipients. Let me guess you weren't pleased with the corporate bail outs, were you?
Free country? Try not paying your taxes and find out how "free" you are.
What happens when the government breaks the law? Who is held accountable? Who ever goes to jail?
Our forefathers envisioned a limited central government. Our government already does far too much.
Private property is not the only type of property. Look up what the Founding Fathers thought about the concept of "The Commons." Shared costs and benefits are as American as apple pie.
Why can't we have a choice? Isn't that what freedom is?
Want to know where people have such "shared costs and benefits?" Check your local Indian Reservation and please, pray tell me, how successful government and central planning really are. Those on Indian Reservations have an extremely short life expectancy. I wonder why?
Again, you are a close minded, indoctrinated, spoiled American brat who has no concept of what constitutes true socialism and the poverty and disparity that it brings.
And you need to read books that won't have you saying things that make you look like a simple-minded fool.
Is Social Security and Medicare a form of Communism? Does it matter? Are they unconstitutional? Do they work in improving the quality of life for all Americans?
Conservative "freedom" would make us slaves - not for the gov't we elect, but for the Almighty Dollar and those that best ruthlessly horde those dollars.
Social security and medicare improves my life? Don't think so.
BTW, Who said I was conservative?
That is the problem with you liberal malcontents. Anyone who disagrees with you must be either conservative or republican. Truth be told, the war on drugs is stupid, I don't care if a person wants to marry a goat, and I think abortion should stay legal.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
We don't pay grocery insurance. Why do we need health insurance?
1. You're being called a conservative because of your views. I agree that we don't need health insurance, but you screw up by thinking the government mandates health insurance.
2. Try talking to Native americans.
3. Taxation is not a "theft", It's actually the price we all pay to live in a great society. I will pay more to make it better.
4. Private Corporations should pay the SAME amount as you and I. Stop holding water for a corporation that hates you.
Government does not mandate health insurance...yet. I hope it stays that way. Insurance, in of itself, is not perfect. HOWEVER, due to legislation, a person can not pick his or her coverages. Health insurance, is very different from auto/home/life. Also, health insurance is tied to a person's employer. Why can't an individual get the same tax breaks that corporations do? Why can't we select out own coverages? Why do we not know how much medical providers charge for certain services? Aside from..
Co-pays, do you know how much a doctor charges for a physical?
We don't have to talk to Native Americans to witness the squalor they live in. There is no Bureau of Mexican/Black/Chinese affairs. So why is it that Native Americans have such a low life expectancy? Central planning doesn't sound like the failed USSR?
EXCESSIVE taxation is theft. It wasn't until Roosevelt came up with his new deal that created the self perpetuating poverty that we see today. Welfare is worse than slavery.
A private corporation does not hate nor does it love me. It is there to make money. It, unlike our govt., can be held responsible. The fact is the consumer products I buy are not created because the corporation loves me or my children. They do it for PROFIT. Want to know what country develops more cutting edge drugs and techniques that save lives? America, BECAUSE it is driven by profit.
out of all the statements you've said, This statement is the worst of all.
1. It is a sad day when individuals think they can hold better sway on companies than our elected officials. Our govt. builds organizations based on our needs (i.e. Highways, fire department, police, air and food quality)
2. Human DO more out of love and respect than fear and incentive. Why else would teachers, police, firemen, garbage collection, etc. do their jobs?
Humans don't perform better with incentives compared to a "brotherhood of man?" The last few recent govt's who espoused a "brotherhood of man," where everyone was "equal" led to true democracy and mass murder.
1.We have a gangster govt where private companies ask for handouts/bailouts. You think the govt is here to help? How about the retirement plan for senators and representatives that is vastly different that SS? Seems to me that public officials have it far better than the average citizen
Once again, you're just talking. i talk to you about private insurance(not even care?) costing more than Fire, police, schools, Postal, Roads, food quality... COMBINED. I talk to you about how YOU and I collectively elect official to solve social issue (i.e. govt). All you have to respond is Brotherhood of man and Gangster Govt? you're whining about what others have instead of trying to fix and make better what's broken...
"Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" is the fallacy that you have espoused.
Health care is expensive because of govt. We don't purchase health insurance like any other type of insurance. We don't get to pick and choose our coverages. We don't get the tax breaks that companies get. Our car/life/home insurance is not tied to our jobs. Though I have already stated this previously, my only hope is your wisdom far exceeds your reading comprehension.
Campaign finance reform suppresses the 1st Amendment
Most health care is preventative and this kind of care can be negotiated. though I agree, when its an emergency, you have no chance to shop around.
I am against collusion with the govt. but I don't think that regulation is the answer. Allow people to purchase insurance, just like they are allowed to purchase their own home/auto/life insurance and rates HAVE TO come down. Supply vs demand. Consumers need education too.
I can see your points as well. Thank you for the cordial reply.
But most of our citizenry are now enlightened enough to realize that there should at least be a public option, and eventually the people will prevail.
we should not have to give proof of insurance to a 911 operator. likewise, health care (unlike home/auto/life insurance) is a matter of life and death and is something that We the People should decide how to organize for ourselves. and we will, it's just a matter of time. the bill maguires of the world (wikipedia him) are just stalling for as long as possible so they can squeeze us for every last possible dime.
but even if the health insurance industry did not have anti-trust exemption, it would still be wrong to have general health care privatized because it is IMMORAL for anybody to be able to make a profit off of somebody else's sickness. every other advanced industrialized nation in the world has realized this. should we turn our municipal police and firefighting services over to the free market? of course not, because it is a matter of life and death.
Your statement is oxymoronic. Please tell me, do hospitals, doctors, nurses work for free?
I guess all 3 examples (and many more) are all IMMORAL because they all make money on someone else's sickness.
There are many inventions/drugs that have come to fruition because of capitalism. These items deal with life and death and are privatized. Unless you think the government is responsible for cutting edge drugs/technology?
That which we obtain too easily, we esteem to lightly.
No, these three examples (doctors, nurses, hospitals) make money off of HEALING people. For health insurance companies the opposite is true - they LOSE money off of healing people. Every time they have to pay for treatments, operations and medications, health insurance companies LOSE money. HEALING is ANTITHETICAL to their reason for being, which happens to be the same legally mandated raison d'etre for every publicly owned business in this country: To make money for shareholders.
If business is greedy so is work. When I work, I seek the most possible money for the least possible work. A business is not a living, natural being. It is employees, employers, shareholders and customers. Just like the government, business is made up of people.
Not necessarily. I am a teacher. I get paid salary whether I'm there at the school from 745 to 315 as I am obligated by contract or from 7 to 430 as happens most days. I get paid the same. Either way, it's never the individual that's greedy, right? It's always the other guy or company that's greedy.
business=better, cause without trade and consumerism, there would be no use for currency and shit would be out of order. order brings people together for a better living incase you forgot thats why corperations and government go together
That's the definition of Fascism...Mussolini would be very proud! Unfortunately our business/economic model is not sustainable. Resources and biodiversity are diminishing fast, not to mention ever-growing pollution. Corporations and government 'going together' = poverty for the masses and the majority of wealth in the top less than 1%...it's a better living for very few people.
I grew up a poor hispanic, in the hood, yet I had it a millions times better than the poor in Mexico or El Salvador. I love this country and I love capitalism.
You "enlightened" anglo's make me laugh. Go shove your feigned empathy elsewhere.
@AZRanger: If your beloved capitalists had their way conditions in this country would quickly return to the way it was in the Victorian times: a few obscenely wealthy individuals while everyone else is absolutely dirt poor, like things are in China by the way. To supply corporations like Wallmart workers in China put in double shifts seven days a week for less than a living wage. Every time you vote Republican you're taking us a step closer.
@judyleasugar97 Another "enlightened" anglo and some more feigned sympathy. BTW, who said I was Repugnican? I tend to vote Libertarian if you care to know. Its not like you Demoncrats and your support for heroes like "Chairman" Mao and Pol Pot. So keep voting Demoncrat where "everyone should be equal" and support the though that killed millions as a result. Then again, it was another of your heroes that said "One death is a tragedy...a million deaths is a statistic!"
@judyleasugar97 First and foremost, you think I make assumptions? Surely you aren't that stupid...are you? You assumed I was a Repugnican (a play on words for Republican). I had to spell it out for you as you obviously aren't very bright. Second, Demoncrats (again a play on words for Democrat) sing the praises of socialism and wanting to make everything "fair" and "equal for everyone." This has and always will be the chant of Communism. Pot, Stalin, and Mao used this thought to murder millions
@AZRanger: You say you're not Republican but you walk and talk like one. Communism is not really that "fair and equal." There is an elite upper class in communist governments, and people have no rights in those countries. There is at least a chance of creating equality in the US.
Health insurance companies make money by NOT paying for operations, by DENYING coverage for pre-existing conditions, by finding CLAUSES in heavily lawyered contracts, by DROPPING PEOPLE from coverage once they get sick. Our privatized health insurance system results in 45,000 deaths per year. It is a truly horrifying death industry that perpetuates sickness and poverty.
It is a system that serves no purpose other than to make a few people insanely wealthy (1.6 billion dollars for United Health's William "Dollar Bill" McGuire). And they become insanely wealthy by destroying the rest of us.
It is a system that is enabled and defended by a pernicious ideology called free-market fundamentalism. This ideology is characteristic of fundamentalism in that, rather than contributing meaningfully to people and societies, it serves primarily to give individuals false comfort in exchange for believing in it. Free-market fundamentalism believes that the so-called free-market should be applied to every corner of society because it is GOD-LIKE.
It refuses to accept the reality that there are instances where the profit motive does not apply. Doing so would be signing its own death certificate, and free-market fundamentalism is ultimately concerned about only one thing: its own survival.
Free-market fundamentalism is on display when, confronted by rational and sane argument that it does not apply in the form of private health insurance, it feels threatened and tries to reassert its importance -
Because the central tenet of free-market fundamentalism is that the profit motive leads to a better good or service that benefits the consumer. To restate: Health insurance companies make money by NOT paying for operations, by DENYING coverage for pre-existing conditions, by finding CLAUSES in heavily lawyered contracts, by DROPPING PEOPLE from coverage once they get sick. Our privatized health insurance system results in 45,000 deaths per year.
Wrong, corporations are not people and should not be paying off our politicians. Our elected representatives are supposed to be representing we the people. Why is healthcare expensive because of govt.? It's expensive because it's for profit which means their first priority is to their stockholders, NOT us! BTW, you can choose all kinds of plans w/different levels of coverages, from different companies, you just might not be approved. Opt-out of your employer's plan, apply on your own.
I call you republican, because all of your cares focus on an "I got mine, you get yours" mentality.
You complain about our taxes, but the average american with a family of four will pay waaay more yearly in just health insurance than ALL of the Government funded services including that "socialist" public school system that most people graduate from.
Your being intellectually lazy. My beliefs of fiscal conservative/socially liberal are more in line with Libertarians. Nice fail though. Your "brotherhood of man" horse squeezed was espoused by Stalin, Pol Pot, and Chairman Mao. I wonder how many millions died in the name of "equality?"
Look up "post hoc, ergo propter hoc." Insurance is expensive BECAUSE of govt. You never answered my question. So I will ask it again:
I am assuming that you don't have insurance, or you go to a clinic and pay cash. I must say, bravo to you! Most Americans have no idea how much most treatments cost. In this way, insurance is expensive because most people don't shop around and compare prices. They have their co-pay and that's it. They get a "one size fits all policy" that is not tailored to their individual needs. In this regard, insurance has become expensive and is almost like a monopoly/business collusion/cartel like.
I have insurance and I use it. but I monitor what I use. I negotiate on price and debate my claims. I just believe that we should have intelligent debate about healthcare and the way we approach it. Did you know the American Medical Assoc. (AMA) sets a limit at the number of doctors allowed to practice? Why is that? Why to secure demand. If everyone and their brother practiced licensed medicine there would be more competition and lower prices.
We must agree to disagree on the methods of reform but I think we both agree that we need change.
I also applaud you on your efforts to get your points across as well.
I had no idea that the AMA actually set limits. I am against anything that would prohibit/impede the free market and competition. I am sure this is another reason why health care and insurance is so expensive.
When liberals state 'facts' they are merely speaking the truth but when conservatives cite 'facts' (Even Ann Coulter's facts can be verified) they are labeled as 'racist' 'bigot' and 'fascists'.
Apart from not knowing what fascism is, these same libtards have a hard time correctly spelling their insults.
He eats brains? I wouldn't doubt it. It would confirm my suspicion that liberal radio talk show hosts are zombies and as such, few people don't tune into their shows
Do you not know or are you asking a random person on the internet (with easy access to said definition btw) in hopes of them not knowing what it means.
Are you a liberal democrat, buddy? Did you vote for 'Change"? Do you think townhall demonstrators are un-American? Do you think the death penalty is morally wrong but don't blink when 1 million unborn children are slaughtered every year?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, you may be a libtard.
it would have been way better if they had a decent moderator, overall they both held there own,. thom got owned on a beethoven subject but that is what made it somewhat a draw and not a clear win for thom. ANYONE who claims either of these guys got there ass whooped is clearly bias
the beethoven subject didn't really matter. Thom sticks to the facts Medved sticks to the conservative spin. These polls and such that Medved talk about are just the conservatives paying for research that gives them answers they want. None of his so called fact are backed up with anything but spin
I really think Medved is paid to be a "dweeb" I thought Thom made a lot more sense and Thom stuck to facts and the issues. I don't understand how any body can be against Unions because of a few bad people in the past, using the same logic how can Medved support large corporations or capitalism? they have a much larger amount of corruption and many times the negative impact as unions. I would call that inellectually dishonest
you debate michael medved he will kick your ass! hartman got his ass kicked twice! hartman must love that.
jayhawker53 4 months ago
Homeopathic medicine, hmm.
fdh2006 1 year ago
thom is the most knowledgeable person on that stage.,
TheKkronic420 1 year ago 5
Hey, I found some more of these videos here on this website:
m0ar [DOT] org/3913
(Replace [DOT] with . ) - Pretty cool stuff! :D
JanineStar1992 1 year ago
oh no Michael Medved.. how did he go from a movie critic to a political commentator ?
xadam2dudex 1 year ago 2
Medved immediately comes to the defense of slave wages. Tells you all you need to know about how cons wrecked the economy. Then Hartmann completely catches him off guard when he uses repub Teddy Roosevelt's explanation of a living wage.
TR was one of the few repubs that understood people need to be paid a decent wage if you don't want to destroy the consumer market which is the engine of the economy.
tom6612 1 year ago
gag me......... this guy makes me sick.......
KCUAC 1 year ago
Thom is definately smart to leave out Medved's comment because as usual Hartmann comes across as a childish moron even without Medved's comments
being heard.
TheKuffarKid 1 year ago
this guy is allowed on the mans airwaves because he is clearly sucking up to all of their transposed rhetoric. he has no thoughts of his own, he is led down the primrose path and then leads you with him. There is nothing wrong with having or making a lot of money. How you got that money though is another thing. quite simply put, taxes are not necessary. the money gets printed when it comes to paying for certain things. thom will say that will lead to hyper inflation. i say the earth is not flat.
accountnotavailable 1 year ago
I listen to Thom in Seattle. Unfortunately many of the rural areas of the U.S. will not have any "Liberal" talk shows at all.
Dragonfly6160 2 years ago
was one of the moderators name "dick payne" ? really??
JIMITAPP 2 years ago
I wish Thom Hartmann had as many radio stations as Rush Limbaugh. Maybe then Americans would understand how badly they have been burned by the government policies of the past 25 years that have favored the richest Americans.
Dragonfly6160 2 years ago
i listen to thom hartmann every afternoon on chicagos progressive talk, a fairly mainstream channel, but depending on where you are located, you may/may not find the station. Alot of people tune in for him as well, he hosts from 2-5 p.m. (wcpt am/fm) you can also find it streaming online or perhaps find out which radio frequency its on.
noobz121 2 years ago
Thom is a great Mind. He has good ideas...he has missed the majority of people who are lost, in the usa.
deracinated1 2 years ago
A PhD in homeopathic medicine !!! ...
WTF University has THAT for a PhD program??
LMAO
katooom 2 years ago
haha. i'm with you, i will instead take my talking points from someone whose qualifications are (1)dropping out of yale law, (2)believing in sasquatch and (3) rising to fame by writing hackneyed movie reviews. Now THERE'S a person who obviously knows what he's talking about.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hartmann is such a communist.
MrTabby5000 2 years ago
Thom speaks facts, and works those facts with pragmatism.
Republicans HATE that. They want to talk ideology. Archaic ideology, at that.
"Gov't is evil bureaucracy!" Sure... and health insurance isn't? Does insurance itself cure anybody? No, it doesn't. Insurance IS bureaucracy, and we'd be better off under a collective, nationwide, gov't-backed policy.
But with our populace... It'll never happen. We want our "freedom", freedom to be collectively ripped-off for for-profit companies instead.
IndianKBlue 2 years ago
Comment removed
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
Well let me be the first to say that I object to the socialist police dept., the socialist fire dept., the socialist public streets, the socialist water systems, the socialist public housing, and every aspect of socialism. It doesn't work.
People must be given an incentive to do well. Want proof? How would you perform at your job if your employer said that they were going to give you your paycheck, every Friday, regardless of your performance? How long would your company stay profitable?
AZRanger 2 years ago
You'd better cancel your internet service right away then. The net was developed with dirty, tainted, socialist DOD (DARPA) money. Also, to help you stay ideologically pure, if your house is burning down we'll all stand around and bid on the job of putting the fire out.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
Actually my ISP is a private company. Also, there is a private company that provides emergency services here in Arizona. They are called Rural Metro.
Why don't you go to Cuba or better yet North Korea? That way you can be ideologically pure with the rest of your comrades.
AZRanger 2 years ago
Fail. Try again.
1. I said the Defense Dept. DEVELOPED the internet. Of course it was privatized after it was clear there was money to be made. Profits are privatized and risks are socialized. They call that "free enterprise" with a straight face.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
There is quite a few things that a socialized government may have established; however, private companies can run them better, be more efficient, and innovate. Best part is a company can be held accountable.
Wasn't it our socialist president that said "Fedex and UPS are doing well, it is the post office that is always in trouble." Wasn't also our government established post office that said overnight delivery was impossible before UPS/Fedex?
Go away liberal malcontent.
AZRanger 2 years ago
Obama said "Fedex and UPS are doing well, it is the post office that is always in trouble." And it beautifully fucking illustrated his point. If a private company can do something more efficiently than the state then they should be able to prove it. Can you prove it? Was Enron better at running the California power grid than Edison? Nope, the fucking lights didn't come on when you flipped a switch about half the time and millions of $ were lost to waste and graft under the private system.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
Thank you again for proving my point. More private companies would step up if the government just go the hell out of the way. Private companies will continue to make the government look foolish because there is no incentive for government to improve. What is with you liberal malcontents?
Oh yeah, using profanity doesn't help you get your point across. It makes you look ignorant.
Enron went out of business. The government is still here, wasting money as usual. What about National debt?
AZRanger 2 years ago
Use scare words like Socialism all you want.
Ideas don't scare me, even bad ones.
Private tyrannies (corporations) are uncountable to the public because CEOs have a mandate to maximize shareholder profit, not to maximize public benefit. Elected officials, on the other hand, are agents of We the People. We can vote them out of office when they screw us.
I moved the Einstein comment to this thread to make sure you would see it. Look at the bottom of the page.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
Obviously those words don't scare you because you are a spoiled indoctrinated American who has no idea what its like to live in a 3rd world country. The poor in this country have it a heck of a better time than the poor in ALL third world countries.
Companies are not out for the public benefit. The farmer who provides my children milk doesn't do it because he loves them. He does it for profit.
You want a company that caters for the public benefit, then by all means you start one.
AZRanger 2 years ago
I wonder why you removed the comment where you tried to correct me on my Einstein quote.
Is it possible that you are wrong again? PWNED,
We need more freedom, not less. We especially need freedom FROM the government.
AZRanger 2 years ago
2. Rural/Metro is your best example? Those corrupt fuckers got busted by the feds to the tune of $2.5 million for over billing hospitals in TX. And if you ever call 911 make sure to tell them you don't want the private ambulance to drive on any of those socialistic public streets to get to your house.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
You prove my point exactly! Private companies can be held responsible and if irresponsible long enough (lose enough money) they go out of business.
When government fails, it is called "we need more money." Nice fail though.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" -Einstein
Tell me, O liberal wise one, how long can this government fail (social security, medicare, etc. etc) before you wake up and smell what you shovel in?
AZRanger 2 years ago
How can we hold your buddies at Rural/Metro accountable? Their profits are guaranteed by long term state contracts. They can overbill and fuck shit up to their hearts' content.
Corporations can only be held accountable in court and they can afford better lawyers than we can.
Soc. Sec. and Medicare save millions of elderly people, widows and orphans from disease and destitution. What's insane is that you consider that a failure.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
I didn't know Rural/Metro were my "buddies." I gave an example of a private company that provides emergency services. Maybe more companies would compete if the government got out of the way.
Social security/Medicare is a joke. It is an admission that the government can better invest your money than you can. Taking from the haves to give to the have nots = communism.
'Give me Liberty, or give me Death!" -Patrick Henry The saying was never "give me Healthcare/safety/security or give me death"
AZRanger 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
By the way, the quote you're looking for is: "Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results." And it was a writer named Rita Mae Brown who said it, not Einstein.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
BTW, Mr. pervert/pedophile, go back to taking video of girls on the street instead of commenting on subjects where you have no expertise.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone is paying when its the government providing. Anytime you take away from someone to give to someone else amounts to communism. How is taking money from people to give to other any different from what pirates do?
You need to go read some books and get the indoctrination out of your system.
AZRanger 2 years ago
I see. Taxation is theft because we have a right to squat in the US and benefit from defense, infrastructure, police, courts, etc. without obligation, right?
Wrong. Here's how America works: You pay your taxes and you don't break the law -- that's your end of the social contract. In return, you get to live in this great and free country.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
Excessive taxation is theft. The right want to bail out private companies, the left want to bail out welfare recipients. Let me guess you weren't pleased with the corporate bail outs, were you?
Free country? Try not paying your taxes and find out how "free" you are.
What happens when the government breaks the law? Who is held accountable? Who ever goes to jail?
Our forefathers envisioned a limited central government. Our government already does far too much.
AZRanger 2 years ago
Private property is not the only type of property. Look up what the Founding Fathers thought about the concept of "The Commons." Shared costs and benefits are as American as apple pie.
Good luck to you.
benzodiazapines 2 years ago
Why can't we have a choice? Isn't that what freedom is?
Want to know where people have such "shared costs and benefits?" Check your local Indian Reservation and please, pray tell me, how successful government and central planning really are. Those on Indian Reservations have an extremely short life expectancy. I wonder why?
Again, you are a close minded, indoctrinated, spoiled American brat who has no concept of what constitutes true socialism and the poverty and disparity that it brings.
AZRanger 2 years ago
And you need to read books that won't have you saying things that make you look like a simple-minded fool.
Is Social Security and Medicare a form of Communism? Does it matter? Are they unconstitutional? Do they work in improving the quality of life for all Americans?
Conservative "freedom" would make us slaves - not for the gov't we elect, but for the Almighty Dollar and those that best ruthlessly horde those dollars.
IndianKBlue 2 years ago
Social security and medicare improves my life? Don't think so.
BTW, Who said I was conservative?
That is the problem with you liberal malcontents. Anyone who disagrees with you must be either conservative or republican. Truth be told, the war on drugs is stupid, I don't care if a person wants to marry a goat, and I think abortion should stay legal.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
We don't pay grocery insurance. Why do we need health insurance?
It is expensive because of government.
AZRanger 2 years ago
AZRanger,
1. You're being called a conservative because of your views. I agree that we don't need health insurance, but you screw up by thinking the government mandates health insurance.
2. Try talking to Native americans.
3. Taxation is not a "theft", It's actually the price we all pay to live in a great society. I will pay more to make it better.
4. Private Corporations should pay the SAME amount as you and I. Stop holding water for a corporation that hates you.
hordak1223 2 years ago
Government does not mandate health insurance...yet. I hope it stays that way. Insurance, in of itself, is not perfect. HOWEVER, due to legislation, a person can not pick his or her coverages. Health insurance, is very different from auto/home/life. Also, health insurance is tied to a person's employer. Why can't an individual get the same tax breaks that corporations do? Why can't we select out own coverages? Why do we not know how much medical providers charge for certain services? Aside from..
AZRanger 2 years ago
Cont.
Co-pays, do you know how much a doctor charges for a physical?
We don't have to talk to Native Americans to witness the squalor they live in. There is no Bureau of Mexican/Black/Chinese affairs. So why is it that Native Americans have such a low life expectancy? Central planning doesn't sound like the failed USSR?
EXCESSIVE taxation is theft. It wasn't until Roosevelt came up with his new deal that created the self perpetuating poverty that we see today. Welfare is worse than slavery.
AZRanger 2 years ago
Cont. Pt 3.
In slavery, the chains were tangible.
A private corporation does not hate nor does it love me. It is there to make money. It, unlike our govt., can be held responsible. The fact is the consumer products I buy are not created because the corporation loves me or my children. They do it for PROFIT. Want to know what country develops more cutting edge drugs and techniques that save lives? America, BECAUSE it is driven by profit.
Humans need incentive to grow and invent.
AZRanger 2 years ago
out of all the statements you've said, This statement is the worst of all.
1. It is a sad day when individuals think they can hold better sway on companies than our elected officials. Our govt. builds organizations based on our needs (i.e. Highways, fire department, police, air and food quality)
2. Human DO more out of love and respect than fear and incentive. Why else would teachers, police, firemen, garbage collection, etc. do their jobs?
hordak1223 2 years ago
Humans don't perform better with incentives compared to a "brotherhood of man?" The last few recent govt's who espoused a "brotherhood of man," where everyone was "equal" led to true democracy and mass murder.
1.We have a gangster govt where private companies ask for handouts/bailouts. You think the govt is here to help? How about the retirement plan for senators and representatives that is vastly different that SS? Seems to me that public officials have it far better than the average citizen
AZRanger 2 years ago
Once again, you're just talking. i talk to you about private insurance(not even care?) costing more than Fire, police, schools, Postal, Roads, food quality... COMBINED. I talk to you about how YOU and I collectively elect official to solve social issue (i.e. govt). All you have to respond is Brotherhood of man and Gangster Govt? you're whining about what others have instead of trying to fix and make better what's broken...
You want a better Govt?
CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM
hordak1223 2 years ago
"Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" is the fallacy that you have espoused.
Health care is expensive because of govt. We don't purchase health insurance like any other type of insurance. We don't get to pick and choose our coverages. We don't get the tax breaks that companies get. Our car/life/home insurance is not tied to our jobs. Though I have already stated this previously, my only hope is your wisdom far exceeds your reading comprehension.
Campaign finance reform suppresses the 1st Amendment
AZRanger 2 years ago
Health care is expensive because:
1. It is essential. If you sever your finger are you going to shop for the best prices surgery?
2. It is NOT regulated. You're right Govt. has something to do with it; govt has allowed big pharma and Health Insurer to turn a blind eye.
Ranger, I see your points, I don't agree with them, but i see them. All i'm asking is that you LISTEN to my point. that's all, man
hordak1223 2 years ago
Most health care is preventative and this kind of care can be negotiated. though I agree, when its an emergency, you have no chance to shop around.
I am against collusion with the govt. but I don't think that regulation is the answer. Allow people to purchase insurance, just like they are allowed to purchase their own home/auto/life insurance and rates HAVE TO come down. Supply vs demand. Consumers need education too.
I can see your points as well. Thank you for the cordial reply.
AZRanger 2 years ago
Comment removed
rukidnme2 2 years ago
But most of our citizenry are now enlightened enough to realize that there should at least be a public option, and eventually the people will prevail.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
we should not have to give proof of insurance to a 911 operator. likewise, health care (unlike home/auto/life insurance) is a matter of life and death and is something that We the People should decide how to organize for ourselves. and we will, it's just a matter of time. the bill maguires of the world (wikipedia him) are just stalling for as long as possible so they can squeeze us for every last possible dime.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
but even if the health insurance industry did not have anti-trust exemption, it would still be wrong to have general health care privatized because it is IMMORAL for anybody to be able to make a profit off of somebody else's sickness. every other advanced industrialized nation in the world has realized this. should we turn our municipal police and firefighting services over to the free market? of course not, because it is a matter of life and death.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
Your statement is oxymoronic. Please tell me, do hospitals, doctors, nurses work for free?
I guess all 3 examples (and many more) are all IMMORAL because they all make money on someone else's sickness.
There are many inventions/drugs that have come to fruition because of capitalism. These items deal with life and death and are privatized. Unless you think the government is responsible for cutting edge drugs/technology?
That which we obtain too easily, we esteem to lightly.
AZRanger 2 years ago
No, these three examples (doctors, nurses, hospitals) make money off of HEALING people. For health insurance companies the opposite is true - they LOSE money off of healing people. Every time they have to pay for treatments, operations and medications, health insurance companies LOSE money. HEALING is ANTITHETICAL to their reason for being, which happens to be the same legally mandated raison d'etre for every publicly owned business in this country: To make money for shareholders.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
I grown tired of your liberal malcontent stupidity.
Business = bad.
Government = good.
Please go bark up someone else's tree.
AZRanger 2 years ago
Business is greedy and the government is by the people(not the corporation or wealthy),in case you forgot that
MrTabby5000 2 years ago 2
If business is greedy so is work. When I work, I seek the most possible money for the least possible work. A business is not a living, natural being. It is employees, employers, shareholders and customers. Just like the government, business is made up of people.
th3gr8juan 2 years ago
But you still get paid by the hour.
MrTabby5000 2 years ago
Not necessarily. I am a teacher. I get paid salary whether I'm there at the school from 745 to 315 as I am obligated by contract or from 7 to 430 as happens most days. I get paid the same. Either way, it's never the individual that's greedy, right? It's always the other guy or company that's greedy.
th3gr8juan 2 years ago
A-f@cking-men!
AZRanger 2 years ago
governmeny is good as long as liberals run it and not mythical jesus.
MrTabby5000 2 years ago
business=better, cause without trade and consumerism, there would be no use for currency and shit would be out of order. order brings people together for a better living incase you forgot thats why corperations and government go together
noobz121 2 years ago
That's the definition of Fascism...Mussolini would be very proud! Unfortunately our business/economic model is not sustainable. Resources and biodiversity are diminishing fast, not to mention ever-growing pollution. Corporations and government 'going together' = poverty for the masses and the majority of wealth in the top less than 1%...it's a better living for very few people.
londhow 2 years ago
@AZRanger You grow tired of defending a false, insane and homicidal ideology. Do your worst, you have nowhere to run.
rukidnme2 1 year ago
@rukidnme2
What's to defend?
I grew up a poor hispanic, in the hood, yet I had it a millions times better than the poor in Mexico or El Salvador. I love this country and I love capitalism.
You "enlightened" anglo's make me laugh. Go shove your feigned empathy elsewhere.
AZRanger 1 year ago
@AZRanger: If your beloved capitalists had their way conditions in this country would quickly return to the way it was in the Victorian times: a few obscenely wealthy individuals while everyone else is absolutely dirt poor, like things are in China by the way. To supply corporations like Wallmart workers in China put in double shifts seven days a week for less than a living wage. Every time you vote Republican you're taking us a step closer.
judyleasugar97 1 year ago 3
@judyleasugar97 Another "enlightened" anglo and some more feigned sympathy. BTW, who said I was Repugnican? I tend to vote Libertarian if you care to know. Its not like you Demoncrats and your support for heroes like "Chairman" Mao and Pol Pot. So keep voting Demoncrat where "everyone should be equal" and support the though that killed millions as a result. Then again, it was another of your heroes that said "One death is a tragedy...a million deaths is a statistic!"
AZRanger 1 year ago
@AZRanger: I don't support Chairman Mao or Pol Pot. You make a lot of assumptions. Typical close-minded person.
judyleasugar97 1 year ago 2
@judyleasugar97 First and foremost, you think I make assumptions? Surely you aren't that stupid...are you? You assumed I was a Repugnican (a play on words for Republican). I had to spell it out for you as you obviously aren't very bright. Second, Demoncrats (again a play on words for Democrat) sing the praises of socialism and wanting to make everything "fair" and "equal for everyone." This has and always will be the chant of Communism. Pot, Stalin, and Mao used this thought to murder millions
AZRanger 1 year ago
@AZRanger: You say you're not Republican but you walk and talk like one. Communism is not really that "fair and equal." There is an elite upper class in communist governments, and people have no rights in those countries. There is at least a chance of creating equality in the US.
judyleasugar97 1 year ago
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@AZRanger You grow tired of defending a false ideology that is both homicidal and insane. Do your worst, you can run but you can't hide.
rukidnme2 1 year ago
Health insurance companies make money by NOT paying for operations, by DENYING coverage for pre-existing conditions, by finding CLAUSES in heavily lawyered contracts, by DROPPING PEOPLE from coverage once they get sick. Our privatized health insurance system results in 45,000 deaths per year. It is a truly horrifying death industry that perpetuates sickness and poverty.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
It is a system that serves no purpose other than to make a few people insanely wealthy (1.6 billion dollars for United Health's William "Dollar Bill" McGuire). And they become insanely wealthy by destroying the rest of us.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
It is a system that is enabled and defended by a pernicious ideology called free-market fundamentalism. This ideology is characteristic of fundamentalism in that, rather than contributing meaningfully to people and societies, it serves primarily to give individuals false comfort in exchange for believing in it. Free-market fundamentalism believes that the so-called free-market should be applied to every corner of society because it is GOD-LIKE.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
It refuses to accept the reality that there are instances where the profit motive does not apply. Doing so would be signing its own death certificate, and free-market fundamentalism is ultimately concerned about only one thing: its own survival.
rukidnme2 2 years ago
Free-market fundamentalism is on display when, confronted by rational and sane argument that it does not apply in the form of private health insurance, it feels threatened and tries to reassert its importance -
rukidnme2 2 years ago
Why doesn't it apply in the form of private health insurance?
TheKuffarKid 1 year ago
@TheKuffarKid
Because the central tenet of free-market fundamentalism is that the profit motive leads to a better good or service that benefits the consumer. To restate: Health insurance companies make money by NOT paying for operations, by DENYING coverage for pre-existing conditions, by finding CLAUSES in heavily lawyered contracts, by DROPPING PEOPLE from coverage once they get sick. Our privatized health insurance system results in 45,000 deaths per year.
rukidnme2 1 year ago
No they dont,but in a non for profit organization,people get paid for their work.
MrTabby5000 2 years ago
Wrong, corporations are not people and should not be paying off our politicians. Our elected representatives are supposed to be representing we the people. Why is healthcare expensive because of govt.? It's expensive because it's for profit which means their first priority is to their stockholders, NOT us! BTW, you can choose all kinds of plans w/different levels of coverages, from different companies, you just might not be approved. Opt-out of your employer's plan, apply on your own.
emtravelrn 2 years ago
I call you republican, because all of your cares focus on an "I got mine, you get yours" mentality.
You complain about our taxes, but the average american with a family of four will pay waaay more yearly in just health insurance than ALL of the Government funded services including that "socialist" public school system that most people graduate from.
hordak1223 2 years ago
Your being intellectually lazy. My beliefs of fiscal conservative/socially liberal are more in line with Libertarians. Nice fail though. Your "brotherhood of man" horse squeezed was espoused by Stalin, Pol Pot, and Chairman Mao. I wonder how many millions died in the name of "equality?"
Look up "post hoc, ergo propter hoc." Insurance is expensive BECAUSE of govt. You never answered my question. So I will ask it again:
How much does a physical/checkup cost?
Aside from co-pays, do you know?
AZRanger 2 years ago
Hey sorry about not answering your question. Where I live a Physical/checkup cost anywhere from 50 dollars (if lucky)to 100 bucks(suburbs).
hordak1223 2 years ago
dude... what's your point? I know you've got a point so have at....
hordak1223 2 years ago
I am assuming that you don't have insurance, or you go to a clinic and pay cash. I must say, bravo to you! Most Americans have no idea how much most treatments cost. In this way, insurance is expensive because most people don't shop around and compare prices. They have their co-pay and that's it. They get a "one size fits all policy" that is not tailored to their individual needs. In this regard, insurance has become expensive and is almost like a monopoly/business collusion/cartel like.
AZRanger 2 years ago
I have insurance and I use it. but I monitor what I use. I negotiate on price and debate my claims. I just believe that we should have intelligent debate about healthcare and the way we approach it. Did you know the American Medical Assoc. (AMA) sets a limit at the number of doctors allowed to practice? Why is that? Why to secure demand. If everyone and their brother practiced licensed medicine there would be more competition and lower prices.
Govt doing the bidding of big business
hordak1223 2 years ago
We must agree to disagree on the methods of reform but I think we both agree that we need change.
I also applaud you on your efforts to get your points across as well.
I had no idea that the AMA actually set limits. I am against anything that would prohibit/impede the free market and competition. I am sure this is another reason why health care and insurance is so expensive.
Good day to you!
AZRanger 2 years ago
no doubt. Good talking to you. Are you military?
hordak1223 2 years ago
No just a firearms enthusiast. I built a G36 conversion out of a stock SL8.
Though lately, I am really liking the AR platform.
How about you?
AZRanger 2 years ago
extremely intelligent discourse!
I am so proud of all of you fellow Americans, right and left!
plushnyc 2 years ago 2
When liberals state 'facts' they are merely speaking the truth but when conservatives cite 'facts' (Even Ann Coulter's facts can be verified) they are labeled as 'racist' 'bigot' and 'fascists'.
Apart from not knowing what fascism is, these same libtards have a hard time correctly spelling their insults.
mbelma6329 2 years ago
Thom Hartmann eats poop
mbelma6329 2 years ago
You mean the substance in your head.
grg61458 2 years ago
He eats brains? I wouldn't doubt it. It would confirm my suspicion that liberal radio talk show hosts are zombies and as such, few people don't tune into their shows
mbelma6329 2 years ago
I challenge you to varify his facts, and when you do, you'll be the one eating poop,
grg61458 2 years ago
I don't listen to his show thus can't "varify"(verify) his so-called facts.
But I do know one thing....
He eats poop
mbelma6329 2 years ago
They are verifiable.
xj2yzz 2 years ago
If by poop you mean Michael Medved...I agree. He eats him, and brainless conservatives liars like you, for breakfast.
reederken56 2 years ago
So he's a cannibal? How disturbing. Liberals keep getting more and more disgusting and barbaric everyday
mbelma6329 2 years ago
ok...what is fascism?
IthacaRecords 2 years ago
Do you not know or are you asking a random person on the internet (with easy access to said definition btw) in hopes of them not knowing what it means.
Are you a liberal democrat, buddy? Did you vote for 'Change"? Do you think townhall demonstrators are un-American? Do you think the death penalty is morally wrong but don't blink when 1 million unborn children are slaughtered every year?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, you may be a libtard.
mbelma6329 2 years ago
Great stuff Thom
lookslikepat 2 years ago 3
As if the US doesn't have a national minimum wage?! I'm a bit shocked.
electrosexualdeux 2 years ago
it would have been way better if they had a decent moderator, overall they both held there own,. thom got owned on a beethoven subject but that is what made it somewhat a draw and not a clear win for thom. ANYONE who claims either of these guys got there ass whooped is clearly bias
shwahiffy 2 years ago
the beethoven subject didn't really matter. Thom sticks to the facts Medved sticks to the conservative spin. These polls and such that Medved talk about are just the conservatives paying for research that gives them answers they want. None of his so called fact are backed up with anything but spin
lisabob22 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Thom, Mike kicked your ass...bad.
tonymontana2367 2 years ago
is there video of the whole night somewhere?
EscFwd 2 years ago 4
I was there that night, and all I can say is you did a Great Job Thom!! Keep up the good fight and Medved is a dweeb.
chicagoken 2 years ago 6
I really think Medved is paid to be a "dweeb" I thought Thom made a lot more sense and Thom stuck to facts and the issues. I don't understand how any body can be against Unions because of a few bad people in the past, using the same logic how can Medved support large corporations or capitalism? they have a much larger amount of corruption and many times the negative impact as unions. I would call that inellectually dishonest
lisabob22 2 years ago
Thom has common sense. Conservative radio have morphed into hate talk radio.
mrzack888 2 years ago 8