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Let's see...there's no controversey about Marlowe and Jonson. These men had a University education, and it is simply not bellievable that the Canon was written by someone LESS who had an education. There is no mystery: of courae it is De Vere.
I, for one, still believe that he wrote his own plays and acted in them. For the life of me, I can't figure out why a movement would emerge now to debunk him. Isn't it possible that this itinerant playwright also had access to the royals and royal courtiers? Why the need to find other authors? Unless this is just a group of academics wanting to create a cottage industry to make money.
Marlow died in 1604. What a lot of horses**t. Why is it so hard to give credit where it is due? Cannot a man with imagination write? Did the screenwriter Goldman 'know' his characters? Did he not write them? Nuts.
I have found an engraved portrait of Shakespear in the back of an old book....there does not appear to be any record of this engraving on the internet although the engraving is identical to the 'chandos' portrait.....this page has been signed by shakespear. The book cover is so time worn and damaged that there is no title left. if you are interested.....if you would like to try and help to shed some light on this,please email me at cherry.rosie@gmail.com
I have found an engraved portrait of Shakespear in the back of an old book....there does not appear to be any record of this engraving on the internet although the engraving is identical to the 'chandos' portrait.....this page has been signed by shakespear. The book cover is so time worn and damaged that there is no title left.
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Did it ever occur to any of you who place such confidence in "academics" that they are not the most disinterested of parties to this debate? If (or I should say when) Marlowe is proven to be the author of the Shakespeare canon, they will be laughingstocks and their entire careers will down the spout.
Why would the Earl have gone to such lenghs to pun on the name Will in the sonnets (134, 135, 136) while never punning even with anagrams of his own name such as 'ever' 'forever' 'revered'? If he punned with one, surely he'd pun with the other. The word's would have been apt for the sonnets. I doubt he'd have risked discovery through it, either.
Also, were any drafts or notes for the famous plays ever found among De Vere's belongings?
I don't think it was the Straford guy or De Vere. Today's stylistic findings point more and more to a process of rewriting and layering by numerous different authors. One day we find out Middleton did some scenes; the next we discover traces of Peele and Fletcher. Many parts are paraphrases or outright copies from other works. In the end, I think it'll turn out there wasn't really one dominant author at all - just the unifying hand of a canny editor.
The son of illiterate parents, father of illiterate children, raised in a provincial. backwater with no formal education, who left not a single letter or manuscript behind, wrote the greatest works in English literature. Why do people find this so hard to believe? It's obvious this Shaxpar fellow from Stratford was a genius, pure and simple.
It's a common misconception of idiots but the school Shakespeare attended provided a very good education, probably better than the education our children receive today.
The literacy of his parents means fuck all squared.
What do you mean he didn't leave a manuscript behind? He left 39 plays behind!
@1878EFC2008 There is no evidence showing William Shakespeare of Stratford ever attended ANY school! In order to have attended the Stratford grammar school, he would have been required to be literate in both English and Latin before he was admitted. Since his parents were both illiterate, where would he have obtained the prerequisite learning? I may be a "strange one," but I know the difference between a printed play and a manuscript. Are you for real, or is this a joke?
His mum was from a very wealthy family & his dad was a successful businessman. Their wealth would've allowed them to pay for Shakespeare's schooling. NOBODY left a manuscript of one of Shakespeare's plays, so they've disappeared regardless of who wrote them.....why you think this means Shakespeare didn't write them is baffling.
ps i won't explain the point i was making in my first post as you obviously aren't well versed in nuance
@1878EFC2008 His mother was from a family of small farmers, and only distantly related to anyone who could be called wealthy; his father went bankrupt. There are not only no surviving manuscripts of Shalespeares's plays, there's not a scrap of writing by the Stratford man: not a play, not a poem, not a letter, nothing. Only six supposed "signatures," which are subject to much doubt as to whether he even wrote them. If you want to comment on a subject, at least learn something about it first.
He was never made bankrupt because Shakepseare bailed his dad out. Because his dad piad for his schooling when he was a kid. Only fair, innit?
That there was no manuscript isn't that surprising, i haven't looked into it but i imagine there aren't many manuscripts left over by Chaucer, but nobody says he didn't write the Canterbury Tales.
How many manuscripts did Marlowe leave?
It's not that unusual and hanging your theory on this banal fact discredits you enormoulsy, i'm afraid.
@daver8521 - Shakespeare's dad was the Mayor of Stratford and one of his duties was both hiring and paying travelling players to perform in Stratford. Shakespeare would have met and mingled with them from an early age. This idea that his father, the mayor of Stratford, was illiterate is nonsense. The records for Stratford Grammar for this period are lost but I think we can assume that the Mayors son attended.
There is little evidence but far more for Shakespeare of Stratford than anyone else.
@WillShakespeare2007 Where do you get this stuff? To start off with, John Shakespeare was not the mayor of Stratford, he was an alderman. Secondly, we know he was illiterate, because he signed many surviving legal documents, and all are signed with a mark, instead of a signature, The business about him hiring "travelling players" is nonsense. There are no records of this. And we cannot "assume" Shakespeare attended grammar school - we just do not know.
@daver8521 - He was an alderman but was then elected Bailiff which is equivalent of mayor in 1567. You are also wrong in your description of Anne Hathaway.
May I suggest you read a short history of both these people, there is a good one at englishhistoryDOTinfo
wikipedia will have something too I am sure but I have not checked it. You will find these will confirm what I have written and correct you about Anne.
@daver8521 It was actually not uncommon at the time for literate people to sign their names with just a mark; lack of a proper signature does not prove illiteracy. Additonally, there are not records of any students attending the grammar school during the time when Shakespeare might have been there: does that mean that no students attended? His dad's position in town would have guaranteed his son an education there.
@AhearnEducation Why would anyone who could sign his or her name sign with a mark? Can you give three examples of a literate person signing with a mark? Of course there are no records from the Stratford Grammar School during the period Willie would have attended - that does NOT prove he did! We don't know either way, but the logical conclusion is that he did not. His father never hired an apprentice, so Willie was probably learning to make gloves, not Latin. You're beating a dead horse.
@daver8521 'to have attended the Stratford grammar school, he would have been required to be literate in both English and Latin before he was admitted. Since his parents were both illiterate, where would he have obtained the prerequisite learning? '
Perhaps private tutors or perhaps the Petty School which boys attended aged 5 to 7. Bear in mind free schooling, for his son, would be a perk of his office for alderman Shakespeare.
@commonberus1 It is doubtful that his father hired private tutors, because he was experiencing severe financial hardships about the time William would have needed them. The first reference to a "Petty School" in Stratford dates from 1604 - a bit late for Wille to have attended it.
@daver8521 The Father of Robert Burns the Scottish poet, though an ordinary countryman was able to afford private tutors so I think Alderman Shakespeare would be able to. His financial difficulties seems to have began after Williams childhood..
@commonberus1 And where would he find a private tutor in Stratford, where 90% of the population was illiterate? And if John Shakespeare cared so little for learning that he himself never bothered to learn to read and write, why should we believe that he would have valued an education for for his son? And if Willie received a great education at the Stratford grammar school, why didn't he mention it in his will and make a bequest to it? Private tutors! That's really a stretch!
Shakespeare senior was born poor so would have had little time to acquire literacy, he would have been too busy strugling up the monetary and social scale. But it would be very strange if such an ambitious man would not wanted the considerable advantage of literacy for his son. Secondly I doubt if the latin qualification for entering Stratford Grammar School would be high since most of the point of such schools was to teach literacy in latin in the first place.
@thrills120 He seems to have been well off during Shakespeare's childhood. His financial problems seems to have began later, during Shakespear's teens.
@daver8521 The Father of Robert Burns the Scottish poet, though an ordinary countryman was able to afford private tutors so I think Alderman Shakespeare would be able to in a similar rural situation. His financial difficulties seems to have began after Williams childhood..
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kissfool you have completely mis-understood my point and are guilty of the same conjecture and distorted inductive "reasoning" as those that claim the writer was WS. How can someone be so familiar with court etiquette, classicism, etc with so little recorded education ? Not impossible, but highly improbable at a time when only the rich got educated. I refer you to "Shakespeare, whom was he ?.Whalen. Praeger 1994 for a tour around the questions. Carry on flinching, or better, read the book.
the xmas following my part Bottom the rustic in MSND one of my presents was a complete Shakespeare with a very thorough introduction and bio. I was suprised at what the writersaid, and how little was fact. The writer admitted throughout that most was conjecture. How could this country bumpkin know so much about classicism, court etiquette, etc etc. It just does not add up. Please someone apply Bayes theorem. Edward De Vere fills my red ball tube.
@BunkyOhare I'm not quite sure why, since you admit that there is so little information, you would assume that Shakespeare was a "country bumpkin." Genius only occurs in the city? Only goes to University? Is only for the rich (that last one made me flinch just typing it).
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If Mr Rylance had been a "Joe Public",no-one would of taken a blind bit of notice.As is,he has bitten the hand that feeds,or one should say fed him,his comments coming as they did when employed at The Globe.If he had uttered such treacherous mutterings in the days of The Bard,he would of been"opened from the chops to the knave!"
I worked on a major documentary about this subject and we interviewed the leading academics on this topic and then some other like Mark Rylance. In ever instance those supporting Shakespeare were the world renowned academics and those not were just actors like Rylance. I think that says it all.
@WillShakespeare2007 yeah your right only ARTISTS don't believe shakespeare wrote these plays like Mark twain and Ralph waldo emerson and walt whitman and orson wells and charlie chapman you know people that would know nothing about writing..... oh wait. I'll throw my lot in with the artists before I give two damns what an academic thinks.
@bulldog01209 - I know this is YouTube but is the boorish sarcasm really necessary? My entire working life has been dedicated to Shakespeare and I left my personal opinion, which is the purpose of the comment section. Professor Stanley Wells is the editor of the Complete Oxford Shakespeare and a world renowned authority on Shakespeare. If you really think that Charlie Chaplin's opinion holds more weight then you are of course entitled to your opinion. I will stick with the academics.
@WillShakespeare2007 You're also sticking with many, many respectable artists and actors- it's funny how we see Gielgud, Jacobi, and Rylance trotted out to support anti-Stratfordian theory, but we ignore the vast majority of actors who support the Stratford man (and, no, it's not all due to passivity and ignorance: I waded through everything Looney and the Ogburns (parents and child) wrote.
who ever wrote the words is rather unimportant as are so many great writings done in the distant and not so distant passed with many many contributions by others. Even yesterday today and tomorrow we will read and hear many words written by many people but spoke and acknowledge as the work of them who are there and speak. The real importance is that they were done and we all can enjoy and not waste our reading time on looking for a smoking gun.
who ever wrote the words is rather unimportant as are so many great writings done in the distant and not so distant passed with many many contributions by others. Even yesterday today and tomorrow we will read and hear many words written by many people but spoke and acknowledge as the work of them who are there and speak. The real importance is that they were done and we all can enjoy and not waste our reading time on looking for a smoking gun
@cwwiss1 Research the Shakespeare authorship question. It is fascinating. It has been going on for centuries, yet I only learned of it a few years ago and am researching it in earnest now. Yes, it is insane--I agree completely, but the life of W. Shaksper is so incongruous with what one would expect of a man of letters. It was the illiterate daughters that worried me, especially after reading the Sonnets. If the Stratford case it true, then the Bard was a cruel man, raising his girls illiterate.
When I began to learn English I would like to read it directly in Shakespeare, the Everest of English language.
I regret to be born in France, the french Shakespeare was certainly not Molière (when we say "la langue de Molière" nor Racine), but Corneille who was great miss to become the french Shakespeare, Malherbe and the Académie killed the imagination in theatre, Shakespeare is really universal he is not comparable.
@angerdux8 you are correct. I guessed that is was named after his son . I didn't
know about "The life of Amleth"..my bad. However he could have dedicated it to him as the names are so similar? The graveyard scene is one of the most poignant moments in the whole cannon .Could he have been speaking to his dead son?
@cwwiss1 Well, I am not sure that William Shakespeare of Stratford was the author of the plays.He may have been a collaborator, as was common then, but his life, the lack of any kind of paper trail in his name that would link him to the plays---there is nothing. Plus, he never taught his daughters to read. Only one, I believe, could sign her name; the other used an X. Odd.
@cwwiss1 There is historical evidence outside of the Gospels that Jesus did, indeed, exist, and of his lineage. There is no proof that he came back from the dead and all of that. But there is more documentation about Jesus being Jesus--a radical Jewish reformer--than there is that Skasper wrote the plays. Did you know that Shake-spear was a common pseudonym used by writers who wanted to remain anonymous?
@cwwiss1 It's not a "view". What is wrong with you? When there is reasonable proof of a thing, it is reasonable to believe its existence. And yes, the moon landings happened. And terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center. No to the question of aliens. No to Bigfoot. Satisfied?
@angerdux8 All I am saying is that knowing that WS had a son named Hamnet who died a short time before Hamlet , arguably the greatest play of all time, was written with his dead son in mind. It may be possible to gain further insight into the mind of true genius and know that play better. Many great artists created their best work after a traumatic event. Pure speculation on my part..nothing more.
@cwwiss1 One source for Hamlet is the tale of Amleth [an anagram for Hamlet], in which a jealous brother kills his brother, the king; marries the king's wife, Getruth. Prince Amleth feigns madness. The evil usurper sends Amleth to England with two thugs and a letter of execution; Amleth changes the letters, the thugs are killed; he marries the English princess;returns and burns his uncle and his nobles to death in a mead hall.
@angerdux8 I'm asking you to open your mind to the possibility that Shakespeare may have used that story as a vehicle to explore his own human condition after the death of his son Hamnet.
@cwwiss1 I always have an open mind, but I need substantive evidence to settle the authorship question and thus far I am not convinced that the Stratfordians have enough to state, unequivocally, that Shaksper the grain merchant was Shakespeare the poet. Anything is possible until it is proved.
@angerdux8 In Hamlet the Ghost (the father) says " cut off euen in the blossomes of my sinne"
In a catholic testament now believed to have been written and signed by John Shakespeare and found concealed in his attic are the words "I may be possibly cut off in the blossome of my sins". Check Peter Ackroyd's biography of Shakespeare for verification.
Entire books have been written directly referencing Oxford's letters, annotated books, and life experience to Shakes-peare's texts. Not that I am an Oxfordian, but Shakespeare's biographies are based on absolute speculation, outside of things like his suing and sending his neighbor to prison for something like a 7 pound debt....
@angerdux8 You refer to Shakespeare the grain merchant. Doubters like to say Shakespeare was just a businessman, but he was clearly an actor as in cast lists. There are a number of contemporary people on record referring to him as a playwright e.g Frances Meres, Ben Jonson and Jonson quotes Shakespeare's fellow actors talking about his writing of plays. Also Condell and Hemings. There is also a record of him having bought a place in Blackfriars near to The Globe Theatre.
Look, if you are serious about defending Shaksper, who, although he had sufficient wealth, died without a single book referenced in his will; was satisfied to keep his daughters illiterate; had no celebrity within his own town after his retirement, no mention associating him with Shake-speare, even by his doctor son-in law who keep a copious diary; whose life makes no sense of his Sonnets; who was satirized by Jonson as a plagiarist who took credit for the work of others...
Outside of certain legal documents unrelated to the plays or the works, mention of Shakspeare is entirely anecdotal and contradictory. Jonson satirized Shakespeare as a plagiarist who stole unpublished works and took credit for them. In literary biography, the tradition is to source the works--find out how, where, and when the germs of singular ideas made their way into the works. For Shaksper there is nothing. Nada.
A "different voice" in Shakespeare and Marlowe's plays? Only someone who is not familiar with the works of both would say that. It's true that the the later plays are not much like Marlowe's; but if Marlowe was the author, one would expect his style to change as he matured. The earliest plays attributed to "Shakespeare" are indistinguishable from Marlowe's work.
@daver852 I disagree [as much as I wish Marlowe had lived on]. People look at the iambic pentameter, but I look at the unusual diction Shakespeare employed. And style doesn't really change over time--themes do.
Add to all this that Shakespeare was a hoarder of grain in tough times to make money, he took people to court for trifles - yet didn't mind anyone at all publishing Shakespeare plays. He was a tax-evader and was listed as "untraceable" by the authorities(the greatest literary figure of his day?), his effigy after death is of (2 artists of the time engraved the same image) a grain merchant, the pen was nowhere in their depictions. I just think we should keep an open mind, Shakespeare is a problem
@Almuric7 An example of the difference in "voice" between Marlowe and Shakespeare. Shakespeare has characters that command the love of the audience. Look at the video responses to Romeo and Juliet. Many teenagers say they love, Mercutio, Benvolio, Romeo or even Tybalt. People empathise with Hamlet and King Lear for instance. The list goes on. What characters does Marlowe have that elicit such affection?
@heliotropezzz333 I do agree the works ascribed to Marlowe are in no way equal (except maybe with regard to their innovative qualities at the time of their creation) to the Shakespeare works. I just think it's very strange that these works came from such a vague seemingly unscholarly man in every respect. The fact that Marlowe's works aren't performed nowadays backs your argument up too. My point is there seem more problems ascribing the works to Shakespeare, than linking them to a dead poet.
@Almuric7 The only "problem" here is your inability to comprehend the fact that a lower-class man from Stratford was born with literary genius. ALL of the evidence that survives says that William Shakespeare of Stratford is the author; NONE of it points to anyone else. The vast majority of people that think that there is another "true author" of the works are ignorant of Elizabethan history and wave away facts like they were troublesome flies.
@LostBoy76 Ah, there you are, LostBoy. Ready to answer Dr. Stritmatter's question or are you gong to admit you don't know as much as you would have us believe you know? Any good Googler should be able to come up with the answer in under two minutes - no advanced degrees in Englsh Lit. or even Elizabethan history required.
If you've forgotten the question I'll be happy to repeat it for you.
It's true the voice in Marlowe's prose and poetry differs from Shakespeare's somewhat - but we must remember that we're looking at a Marlowe who's entire style was experimentation, all the plays by him are different, should the weird way he dies have been a cover, it'd explain why (according to Rev. John Ward in 1662) Shakespeare's own Grandaughter denied he had even been a poet. Add to that his lack of proof of having even a grammar school education, no literary links or items in his will.
I would love YOU to take a look at my videos of the replicas in Western Australia as my father built . I am Youngest Daughter of Celebrated Engineer the Late Leo Fowler he built two full size exact replicas of Shakespeare's Birthplace and Anne Hathaways Cottage these were built in 1970s. I have the Blue Prints they are part of Architecture in British history.
If you read Marlowe's plays and Shakespeare's plays, they have a quite different "voice". Although the "voice" in Marlowe's plays is consistent as is the "voice in Shakespeare's plays, they are just not the same as each other.
"Athena, Greek goddess of wisdom, of household arts and crafts, of spinning and weaving, of textiles. Inventor of the flute, the plough and the ox-yoke, the horse bridle and the chariot. Athena, goddess of war, guardian of Athens, the city named for her; defender of heroes, champion of justice and civil law."
Ox-yoke! Aha! (Ox-joke.)
Oxford's crest does it for me, as well as his prowess i the tournaments. Will-i-am can have many meanings. I am that I am, quoth Edward in one of his poems.
The date of Marlowe's birth is unknown but he was baptized on February 26, 1564, the same year of the birth of the supposed "William Shakespeare" (1564-1616)
Under the Pseudonym, "Shakespeare," (Spear-Shaker) the "Magician," Marlowe was resurrected and gained a second wind and a second chance at life thanks to the great charitable Lie of Ingram Frizer.
This story is quite complex. Pallas Athena also appears on Sir Francis Bacon's 1643, Nova Atlantis.
Which may explain why "Shakespeare" is cited as being born on AVON, for AVON is NOVA spelled backwards. Stratford means Straight Ford (Cross). Literally, "New Straight Cross." Probably, the Rosy Cross or Rosicrucianism.
Bacon's crest had a boar on it. So did Oxford's. Sogliardo had a headless boar on his. There was a William Shakspere born in Stratford-upon-Avon. Stratford was the theater district, now part of the city of London. A Londoner reading Jonson's verses introducing the 1st Folio would have thought of that Stratford rather than Stratford-upon-Avon four days journey away. Both Oxford and Mary Sidney had homes on the Avon. Her symbol was the swan. The swan was thought to be mute, only singing at death.
That Shakespeare was the embossed reincarnation of the "Late"-Great Marlowe, the "Ghost of Marlowe," writing furtively and secretly in collaboration with other playwrights and authors.
I have always been of the opinion that Shakespeare was in fact the posthumous pseudonym of "Christopher Marlowe" of which he even bears the most striking resemblance. Shakespeare in portraiture resembles an agining Marlowe, fatter, and more esteemed.
Unfortunately none of the portraits are certainly of Shaksper or even of Marlowe. The Chandos may be Burbage. Marlowe's was found in a trash heap and may be another student.
Marlowe's writing is a match and he lived near Fisher's Folly. I think it's quite possible he was part of Edward de Vere's salon but I don't know of any documentation for this. There was certainly reason to get Marlowe out of England, but the possible documentation of him living and writing in Italy has disappeared.
@librarylu yeah what authentic proof is there that Marlowe's portrait is even him? just because the man that found it said it was? The picture didn't even have his name on it. But the guy in it does have a look about him like he could be a "Christopher".
Motley? It's also possible one author used more than one pseudonym and that there was more colloboration and sharing of ideas than either side would like to admit.
Lord Bulbec's crest was a lion shaking a broken spear.
He seems to have the strongest case. Marlovians have come up with some good stuff, however. The "upstart crow" may have been Edward Alleyn.
Sogliardo plans to get a suit just for sitting on the stage. Why would an actor do that? Heminge bought a coat of arms too, He was a grocer. The Poet-ape may have been Dekker. I don't think any of these supposed references to WS refer to the Stratford man. His involvement in the theater may have been as Francis Langley's enforcer.
William Shakespeare was not a real personage who actually lived, wrote, performed, and died; His name is merely a clever, ingenious play on words.
Shakespeare means to Shake a Speare (Wand) like that of a Magician. Shakespeare was the Magician who brought the modern English language into being. Straford Upon Avon too is but another play on words. Avon is Nova spelled backwards, Latin for "New". Statford is Straight Ford (Cross). Literally "New Straight Cross."
Monican theory keeps every player in their correct timeline and position Monican theory knows the answer is right in front of us but its us who aren't putting the pieces back together correctly . Monican theory is elegant new and logical .
The reality of Oxfordian position is that they are flogging poor dead horse deVere who has NO writers portfolio but they want to sell him off as the greatest writer of all time
LOL yes I am very stupid LU but even I won't be buying that one
Nonsense. Edward de Vere was mentoned three times (best,first..) in The Arte of English Poesie
(1589). I don't consider Shakespeare to be the greatest writer of all time (my tastes run to A.A. Milne and Emily Dickenson) and the Shakespeare mania didn't start until the 1800s. We have letters in EOs own hand and poetry; Stratfordians might have two words written "by me". Jonson said he never blotted out a line - here are 11 blots in those 6 possible signatures. He couldn't write his name!
Because Monican theory doesnt rely on falsification or conspiracy it is naturally approaching the problem from a far higher intellectual vantage point than deVere theory is Monican theory knows what deVeres place is a court writer famous in literary circles with no mass public appeal and a figure who fades with QE1 death. This is why none of his plays survive today
King James had eight Shakespeare plays produced at court when Oxford died.
"Monican theory" relies on a wild imagination with no documentary evidence to support it. Heminges and Condell had no qualifications for amassing the 1st Folio. Jonson did and his annuity from Lord Pembroke doubled at this time. Why would Susan Vere's brother-in-law do this?
How many of the works of other playwrights have been lost? Nashe's works were ordered burned.
de Vere theory Is VERY clunky in order to run it has to falsify everything to do with WS in tier on tier of conspiracy that ultimately comes crashing down Monican theory doesnt falsify anyone at all or rely on conspiracy either all that it requires is that WS and QA HAVE had some type of connection this is where he has got all his inside info to write Macbeth and Hamlet
De Vere lived Hamlet. Peregrine Bertie, his brother-in-law was an ambassador to the Danish Court. MacBeth was Lady Lennox' family history. De Vere was on a guest list with her; presumably he knew her. He had his own literary circle based at Fisher's Folly, leased Blackfriars and sponsored two acting companies. He was an insider at court, Lord Great Chamberlain & favorite of the Queen.
Orthodoxy would have us believe the Stratford man got his inside information at the Mermaid tavern.
Son 104 indicates it has been 3 junes since he First saw his love. This indicates it is not presently June the next poems deal with QE1 death Which DOES occur in June(this would be the 4th June) This time frame is PERFECT for them having met in Oct 1599
Son 27 Describes a zealous pilgrimage that WS embarks on after a long journey The acting troupe was in Scotland from October to Nov WS DOES have time to compose and publish (at the cheapest publisher)
The contents of the passionate pilgrim are very revealing all sonnets taken from Annes favourite play Loves labour lost all others are references to a young Queen and love poems. This is clearly a book that has been hastily thrown together with poems that will personally appeal to Anne
Theres a long tradition in Scotland that WS has been there and they seem to think it was in 1599 ( I think it was too). Certainly Anne behaves as if She is very familiar with WS straightaway wanting a private showing of Loves labour lost
Try telling an orthodox Stratfordian scholar "monican theory" is elegant, new and logical. I'll give it "new" You say there's a Scottish tradition WS was there? There's a tradition in Ireland St. Patrick drove out the serpents. In a town I once lived near, Kevin Bacon was spotted at the local grocery. The paper printed an explanation that this was really someone's visiting brother-in-law, but there may be some who believe the paper was involved in a cover-up and Kevin Bacon was really there.
Very simple WS HAS met both Anne and James in 1599 or possibly in 1598 in scotland There are at least 5 recorded pilgrimages to scotland by English acting troupes all of which are lead by Lawrence Fletcher of Lord Chamberlains men .( who is also honored by a cloth canopy along with WS). James honors Fletcher in Scotland giving him the freedom of the city.
Source, please. Despite extensive scouring of the records no mention of William Shaksper being with touring companies has ever turned up. There is no record the Stratford man ever left England. The red cloth (four yards apiece) was for the investiture of King James in 1604 and had nothing to do with canopies. De Vere was one of the lords who bore Elizabeth in her canopied chair in the victory procession after the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. He was an accomplished writer by 1589.
I WONT be writing any historical novel but WILL be presenting an alternative and (correct) interpretation of the events and the correct reading of the sonnets .
I said non-historical novel. You're obviously good at fiction.
You mentioned science earlier. In science, theory is as high as it gets; science describes the facts. So far, your "theory" hasn't made it to the level of hypothesis. Please present ONE fact.
There's nothing clunky about the case for Oxford and no great conspiracy needed either, just a small coverup by family and friends. You said in one of your deleted posts you hadn't read up on Oxford. Obviously, you still haven't.
Monican theory can profile WS personality hint its NOT that nice. Son 62 he admits self love is ground into his heart in all the sonnets he fluctuates between idealising his subject then hating her and picking out the slightest wrinkle classical obsessional narcisistic "love"
Once the clunky and conspiracy dependent deVere theory is purged from peoples minds and the far more elegant Monican theory is entertained then events certainly fall into place and follow a distinct logical and coherent pattern 'Monican theory elegantly links all protagonists together for at least 12 years and is fully aware that Anne is going to cause trouble and intrigue in whatever setting she is placed into
Monican theory accepts the sonnets have been written for a crowned monarch but there are only two options QE1 or Anne Crowned queen of scotland . Monican theory knows that it ISN'T QE1 Also we see ALL dark lady sonnets appear AFTER Son 107 where clear references to QE1 death are made Anne IS THE PERFECT FIT
Sonnets 138 and 144 were published in 1599 in The Passionate Pilgrim. Explain that one.
Where is it written they were written for a crowned monarch or are all about the same woman when they were to or about a woman?
The sonnets disappeared for thirty years and reemerged in a different order. How can we be sure the original order is correct? Obviously two were written years before Anne came to England. They fit well with Southampton, Vavasour and de Vere.
The Sonnets definitely are definitely explained by Monican theory The sonnets from start to finish read as if they have been written by an accountant who is berating his errant and spendthrift client deVere would definitely NOT have written like this deVere saw money as secondary to social position WS sees it as a prerequisite for social standing
Son 106 he makes it clear that the beautiful rhymes for dead ladies are being wasted and should in fact be praises for Anne he bemoans that noone is offering Anne praises
Stratfordians are guilty of reading too much into QE1 and not enough into Anne WS made some headway with QE1 but it is with Anne and James that he completely comes into his own . He is not offered any Royal patronage under QE1 neither is he her favourite playwright WS in Son 106 makes clear his views on QE1
Monican theory has no particular problem with WS having VD after all he does mention son 31 trophies of lovers gone (multiple sex partners). But WS is subtle he may be linking physical healing of an illness to emotional healing. In the sonnets leading up to this he is talking about fever and not being in good shape
These two sonnets are clearly a reworking of Marcianus Scholasticus work of the sleeping cupid whose brand is stolen by nymphs placed into a fountain and heats the water. Many scholars suggest this poem has been given to him by Jonson. Monican theory accepts this and thinks this poem marks his reconciliation with both Anne and Jonson
Monican theory interprets the final two sonnets in the following way. They are representative of Shakespeares own healing . Entirely gone is the tale of sound and fury of the preceding sonnets and there is a peacefulness in these sonnets also an acceptance. WS has come full circle here and states the only Sovereign cure foe his malady lies within the Dark Ladies eyes who he states he will always love
Monican theory very clearly demonstrates that from 1603 onwards Florio Personal secetary to QA WS Royal patronage of QA and James and BJ personal playwright to QA and James are ALL linked for a very long time in the same circle and all very definitely know each other. This is where the REAL Shakespeare story IS occurring deVere is definitely NOT a player in any of this
De Vere wasn't much of a player in James' court on account of being dead.
James did continue his £1000 annuity granted by the notoriously stingy Queen Elizabeth. Oxford had about half the income he needed after she gave some of his lands to Dudley and sued him for expenses incurred in his wardship while he was still a minor. He certainly wasn't the only noble to get into debt.
Florio may have been sent by Burghley as tutor/spy to Southampton but there's NO evidence Shaksper met either.
De vere sold his estates to settle debts. He owed the Crown £3000 for his wardship, £4000 for his livery and £4445 in interest and penalties. Elizabeth may have bailed him out but it looks like she bankrupted him too. The blackest deeds could certainly have applied to her and it appears Oxford never forgave her for beheading his cousin, Norfolk. She didn't help him despite him "courting" her for favor and he had to borrow from Burghley for his travels and then sell lands to pay him back.
What if "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;" refers not to a
lover but to his Queen, the one who outranked him and had rotten teeth? She sucked on a perfumed handkerchief to hide the "breath that from her reeks". Gloriana expected flattery from her courtiers. Raleigh was writing fawning poetry to her. De Vere may have been saying his love for her was more rare than this kind of "false compare". His "private friends" would have enjoyed the joke.
@librarylu I think his mistress sounds more like Amelia Lanyer. "her breasts are dun, black wires grow on her head." Elizabeth was a fair skinned red head.
Maybe she had dark roots. XD Since monica is pushing Queen Anne I thought I'd push back with Queen Elizabeth. While Lanyer was at court she was Lord Hunsdon's mistress. It would have been risky indeed for her to be messing around with anyone else. My vote is for Anne Vavasour, but without a footnote on an original manuscript we'll never know for sure who she was. It is known Vavasour bore de Vere's son, Edward. There's a portrait of her and her hair was certainly dark. She looks rather ugly.
Actually, Elizabeth is a good fit (except for the hair). She was thought a bastard ("a bastard's shame") even though Henry legitimatized her. English law forbade a bastard from sitting on the throne. If rumors about them were true she may have been de Vere's mistress in more ways than one circa 1574-75. (Don't worry, I'm not in the Prince Tudor camp yet.) Elizabeth was skilled on the virginals and the jacks could refer to Essex' execution. "When jacks go up heads come down"(De Vere to Raleigh).
Anyone still believing the fiction that de Vere was a wastrel who squandered his inheritance needs to read Nina's Green's article, The Fall of the House of Oxford, in the first issue (online and free) of Brief Chronicles. Milord was RIPPED OFF. His maximum income would only have been £1777 + and that only for a short time due to the sale of lands to pay debts.His father had arranged a good marriage for him and expected to live to see it. Instead he died soon after. Who benefited? Robert Dudley.
All sonets after 126 are clearly referencing Masque of Blackness 1605 Jonsons first masque written under Annes instructions. WS is continually whinging with jealousy and anger at both Anne and Jonson. WS and BJ dont patchup their differences until 1609. Monican theory knows this and no other reading is correct for the sonnets and the timeframe that they encompass.
No other reading is correct? Just what do the last two sonnets, which seem to be about with mercury baths for syphillis, have to do with the Masque of Blackness?
Are you planning to write a non-historical novel on this?
WS pulls off the trick of Royal patronage but to him this is the silver medal this is why he is dismissive son 125 of the honor . WS REALLY wants to be Annes personal playwright BUT BJ has pipped him at the post why because he has shown QA at Allthorpe a fairy masque this is what has swung him into Annes favor She appoints him as her her personal masque writer son 126 is written to BJ and WS is venting his spleen and jealousy.
All actors and playwrights know QE1 is a dead horse and there is clearly a scramble on for royal patronage . Bitter rivals in the War of theatres overnight become collaborators everyone is wanting a slice of the action. And NOONE is trying harder than WS and Ben Jonson
Logic is at the forefront of WS actions . WS as a businessman knows QE1 wont last forever and by 1602 it is very clear the crown is going to go to James What do we see at this point ? Straight away WS is writing plays that will specifically appeal to James and Anne Macbeth Scottish king Clearly written for James with his interest in demonology. Hamlet A danish prince with underlying theme of uncertainty tailor made for Anne
WS narcissistic traits explain why in his writing he was very dismissive of both common people and aristrocrats he clearly thought he was better than both groups. Monican theory already understands the profile for WS personality and the sonnets do nothing but confirm that. WS has a MAJOR ego its an ego that will quickly switch to extreme jealousy and hate and rage the second he doesn't get something that he wants. The sonnets of course very clearly bear this out.
William Shakespeare was involved in the murder of his rival. Read how Shakespeare.rose to prominence right after this murder on Kindle "The Masque of William Shakespeare."
donSatalic 1 week ago
Let's see...there's no controversey about Marlowe and Jonson. These men had a University education, and it is simply not bellievable that the Canon was written by someone LESS who had an education. There is no mystery: of courae it is De Vere.
AAwildeone 2 weeks ago
I, for one, still believe that he wrote his own plays and acted in them. For the life of me, I can't figure out why a movement would emerge now to debunk him. Isn't it possible that this itinerant playwright also had access to the royals and royal courtiers? Why the need to find other authors? Unless this is just a group of academics wanting to create a cottage industry to make money.
xander7ful 1 month ago
It's a sad day when conspiracy theory meets literature, the sublime sullied by the stupid.
craigpsimpson 2 months ago
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Hassansayyad 2 months ago
Thanks for posting. I have uploaded the first part of my amateur documentary, the Real Edward de Vere, on my youtube channel.
ShakespeareChannel 2 months ago
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thanks to God that I have found your video. It's very helpful! look forward to viewing the rest.
melissatubman 2 months ago
Marlow died in 1604. What a lot of horses**t. Why is it so hard to give credit where it is due? Cannot a man with imagination write? Did the screenwriter Goldman 'know' his characters? Did he not write them? Nuts.
fitzjamie1 3 months ago
Why would the "real" authors not want credit for these ingenious plays?
KayBeeEee1983 3 months ago
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TheSteveWhiddonBand 5 months ago
I have found an engraved portrait of Shakespear in the back of an old book....there does not appear to be any record of this engraving on the internet although the engraving is identical to the 'chandos' portrait.....this page has been signed by shakespear. The book cover is so time worn and damaged that there is no title left. if you are interested.....if you would like to try and help to shed some light on this,please email me at cherry.rosie@gmail.com
cherryrosie 5 months ago
@cherryrosie Do you have a picture?
abisivepoo 4 months ago
I have found an engraved portrait of Shakespear in the back of an old book....there does not appear to be any record of this engraving on the internet although the engraving is identical to the 'chandos' portrait.....this page has been signed by shakespear. The book cover is so time worn and damaged that there is no title left.
cherryrosie 5 months ago
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AttinghamParkTV 6 months ago
Did it ever occur to any of you who place such confidence in "academics" that they are not the most disinterested of parties to this debate? If (or I should say when) Marlowe is proven to be the author of the Shakespeare canon, they will be laughingstocks and their entire careers will down the spout.
daver8521 7 months ago
He was gifted ... What would he have written in the 21st century? Harry Potter?
OfficeThingy 8 months ago
One thing that makes me doubt the De Vere theory:
Why would the Earl have gone to such lenghs to pun on the name Will in the sonnets (134, 135, 136) while never punning even with anagrams of his own name such as 'ever' 'forever' 'revered'? If he punned with one, surely he'd pun with the other. The word's would have been apt for the sonnets. I doubt he'd have risked discovery through it, either.
Also, were any drafts or notes for the famous plays ever found among De Vere's belongings?
rockhammer85 10 months ago
I don't think it was the Straford guy or De Vere. Today's stylistic findings point more and more to a process of rewriting and layering by numerous different authors. One day we find out Middleton did some scenes; the next we discover traces of Peele and Fletcher. Many parts are paraphrases or outright copies from other works. In the end, I think it'll turn out there wasn't really one dominant author at all - just the unifying hand of a canny editor.
rockhammer85 10 months ago
The son of illiterate parents, father of illiterate children, raised in a provincial. backwater with no formal education, who left not a single letter or manuscript behind, wrote the greatest works in English literature. Why do people find this so hard to believe? It's obvious this Shaxpar fellow from Stratford was a genius, pure and simple.
daver852 11 months ago
@daver852
No formal education? Eh?
It's a common misconception of idiots but the school Shakespeare attended provided a very good education, probably better than the education our children receive today.
The literacy of his parents means fuck all squared.
What do you mean he didn't leave a manuscript behind? He left 39 plays behind!
You're a strange one.
1878EFC2008 10 months ago
@1878EFC2008 There is no evidence showing William Shakespeare of Stratford ever attended ANY school! In order to have attended the Stratford grammar school, he would have been required to be literate in both English and Latin before he was admitted. Since his parents were both illiterate, where would he have obtained the prerequisite learning? I may be a "strange one," but I know the difference between a printed play and a manuscript. Are you for real, or is this a joke?
daver8521 9 months ago
@daver8521
His mum was from a very wealthy family & his dad was a successful businessman. Their wealth would've allowed them to pay for Shakespeare's schooling. NOBODY left a manuscript of one of Shakespeare's plays, so they've disappeared regardless of who wrote them.....why you think this means Shakespeare didn't write them is baffling.
ps i won't explain the point i was making in my first post as you obviously aren't well versed in nuance
1878EFC2008 9 months ago
@1878EFC2008 His mother was from a family of small farmers, and only distantly related to anyone who could be called wealthy; his father went bankrupt. There are not only no surviving manuscripts of Shalespeares's plays, there's not a scrap of writing by the Stratford man: not a play, not a poem, not a letter, nothing. Only six supposed "signatures," which are subject to much doubt as to whether he even wrote them. If you want to comment on a subject, at least learn something about it first.
daver8521 9 months ago
@daver8521
He was never made bankrupt because Shakepseare bailed his dad out. Because his dad piad for his schooling when he was a kid. Only fair, innit?
That there was no manuscript isn't that surprising, i haven't looked into it but i imagine there aren't many manuscripts left over by Chaucer, but nobody says he didn't write the Canterbury Tales.
How many manuscripts did Marlowe leave?
It's not that unusual and hanging your theory on this banal fact discredits you enormoulsy, i'm afraid.
1878EFC2008 9 months ago
@daver8521 - Shakespeare's dad was the Mayor of Stratford and one of his duties was both hiring and paying travelling players to perform in Stratford. Shakespeare would have met and mingled with them from an early age. This idea that his father, the mayor of Stratford, was illiterate is nonsense. The records for Stratford Grammar for this period are lost but I think we can assume that the Mayors son attended.
There is little evidence but far more for Shakespeare of Stratford than anyone else.
WillShakespeare2007 8 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 Where do you get this stuff? To start off with, John Shakespeare was not the mayor of Stratford, he was an alderman. Secondly, we know he was illiterate, because he signed many surviving legal documents, and all are signed with a mark, instead of a signature, The business about him hiring "travelling players" is nonsense. There are no records of this. And we cannot "assume" Shakespeare attended grammar school - we just do not know.
daver8521 8 months ago
@daver8521 - He was an alderman but was then elected Bailiff which is equivalent of mayor in 1567. You are also wrong in your description of Anne Hathaway.
May I suggest you read a short history of both these people, there is a good one at englishhistoryDOTinfo
wikipedia will have something too I am sure but I have not checked it. You will find these will confirm what I have written and correct you about Anne.
Have a good day.
WillShakespeare2007 8 months ago
@daver8521 It was actually not uncommon at the time for literate people to sign their names with just a mark; lack of a proper signature does not prove illiteracy. Additonally, there are not records of any students attending the grammar school during the time when Shakespeare might have been there: does that mean that no students attended? His dad's position in town would have guaranteed his son an education there.
AhearnEducation 3 months ago
@AhearnEducation Why would anyone who could sign his or her name sign with a mark? Can you give three examples of a literate person signing with a mark? Of course there are no records from the Stratford Grammar School during the period Willie would have attended - that does NOT prove he did! We don't know either way, but the logical conclusion is that he did not. His father never hired an apprentice, so Willie was probably learning to make gloves, not Latin. You're beating a dead horse.
daver8521 3 months ago
@daver8521 'to have attended the Stratford grammar school, he would have been required to be literate in both English and Latin before he was admitted. Since his parents were both illiterate, where would he have obtained the prerequisite learning? '
Perhaps private tutors or perhaps the Petty School which boys attended aged 5 to 7. Bear in mind free schooling, for his son, would be a perk of his office for alderman Shakespeare.
commonberus1 7 months ago
@commonberus1 It is doubtful that his father hired private tutors, because he was experiencing severe financial hardships about the time William would have needed them. The first reference to a "Petty School" in Stratford dates from 1604 - a bit late for Wille to have attended it.
daver8521 7 months ago
@daver8521 The Father of Robert Burns the Scottish poet, though an ordinary countryman was able to afford private tutors so I think Alderman Shakespeare would be able to. His financial difficulties seems to have began after Williams childhood..
commonberus1 7 months ago
@commonberus1 And where would he find a private tutor in Stratford, where 90% of the population was illiterate? And if John Shakespeare cared so little for learning that he himself never bothered to learn to read and write, why should we believe that he would have valued an education for for his son? And if Willie received a great education at the Stratford grammar school, why didn't he mention it in his will and make a bequest to it? Private tutors! That's really a stretch!
daver8521 7 months ago
Shakespeare senior was born poor so would have had little time to acquire literacy, he would have been too busy strugling up the monetary and social scale. But it would be very strange if such an ambitious man would not wanted the considerable advantage of literacy for his son. Secondly I doubt if the latin qualification for entering Stratford Grammar School would be high since most of the point of such schools was to teach literacy in latin in the first place.
commonberus1 7 months ago
@daver8521 And where would he find a private tutor in Stratford, where 90% of the population was illiterate.
How about one of the teachers at the Grammar School during his time off, just for an example. One was sure to need extra money at times.
commonberus1 7 months ago
@commonberus1
How would he of paid the teacher?
thrills120 6 months ago
@thrills120 He seems to have been well off during Shakespeare's childhood. His financial problems seems to have began later, during Shakespear's teens.
commonberus1 6 months ago
@daver8521 The Father of Robert Burns the Scottish poet, though an ordinary countryman was able to afford private tutors so I think Alderman Shakespeare would be able to in a similar rural situation. His financial difficulties seems to have began after Williams childhood..
commonberus1 7 months ago
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theActorsCenter 11 months ago
kissfool you have completely mis-understood my point and are guilty of the same conjecture and distorted inductive "reasoning" as those that claim the writer was WS. How can someone be so familiar with court etiquette, classicism, etc with so little recorded education ? Not impossible, but highly improbable at a time when only the rich got educated. I refer you to "Shakespeare, whom was he ?.Whalen. Praeger 1994 for a tour around the questions. Carry on flinching, or better, read the book.
BunkyOhare 11 months ago
the xmas following my part Bottom the rustic in MSND one of my presents was a complete Shakespeare with a very thorough introduction and bio. I was suprised at what the writersaid, and how little was fact. The writer admitted throughout that most was conjecture. How could this country bumpkin know so much about classicism, court etiquette, etc etc. It just does not add up. Please someone apply Bayes theorem. Edward De Vere fills my red ball tube.
BunkyOhare 1 year ago
@BunkyOhare I'm not quite sure why, since you admit that there is so little information, you would assume that Shakespeare was a "country bumpkin." Genius only occurs in the city? Only goes to University? Is only for the rich (that last one made me flinch just typing it).
kissfool 11 months ago
Frances Bacon.
buasuda0 1 year ago
I made a demo torch song about Hamlet’s Ophelia; it’s about the greatness and inevitable tragedy of loving unconditionally in human relationships. I wanna share this for free before I release it in studio version. This is not just for fans of Shakespeare and the theatre; this is for all people who have loved and got their hearts broken in return in 2010.
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darcon81 1 year ago
nice one
saurabhkgp1 1 year ago
If Mr Rylance had been a "Joe Public",no-one would of taken a blind bit of notice.As is,he has bitten the hand that feeds,or one should say fed him,his comments coming as they did when employed at The Globe.If he had uttered such treacherous mutterings in the days of The Bard,he would of been"opened from the chops to the knave!"
dabcarp 1 year ago
I worked on a major documentary about this subject and we interviewed the leading academics on this topic and then some other like Mark Rylance. In ever instance those supporting Shakespeare were the world renowned academics and those not were just actors like Rylance. I think that says it all.
WillShakespeare2007 1 year ago
@WillShakespeare2007 yeah your right only ARTISTS don't believe shakespeare wrote these plays like Mark twain and Ralph waldo emerson and walt whitman and orson wells and charlie chapman you know people that would know nothing about writing..... oh wait. I'll throw my lot in with the artists before I give two damns what an academic thinks.
bulldog01209 1 year ago
@bulldog01209 - I know this is YouTube but is the boorish sarcasm really necessary? My entire working life has been dedicated to Shakespeare and I left my personal opinion, which is the purpose of the comment section. Professor Stanley Wells is the editor of the Complete Oxford Shakespeare and a world renowned authority on Shakespeare. If you really think that Charlie Chaplin's opinion holds more weight then you are of course entitled to your opinion. I will stick with the academics.
WillShakespeare2007 1 year ago
@WillShakespeare2007 You're also sticking with many, many respectable artists and actors- it's funny how we see Gielgud, Jacobi, and Rylance trotted out to support anti-Stratfordian theory, but we ignore the vast majority of actors who support the Stratford man (and, no, it's not all due to passivity and ignorance: I waded through everything Looney and the Ogburns (parents and child) wrote.
kissfool 11 months ago
very interesting but i rather study in german.
I think humans are never to old to STUDDY_.))
mzgroovy64 1 year ago
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who ever wrote the words is rather unimportant as are so many great writings done in the distant and not so distant passed with many many contributions by others. Even yesterday today and tomorrow we will read and hear many words written by many people but spoke and acknowledge as the work of them who are there and speak. The real importance is that they were done and we all can enjoy and not waste our reading time on looking for a smoking gun.
rothwellss 1 year ago
who ever wrote the words is rather unimportant as are so many great writings done in the distant and not so distant passed with many many contributions by others. Even yesterday today and tomorrow we will read and hear many words written by many people but spoke and acknowledge as the work of them who are there and speak. The real importance is that they were done and we all can enjoy and not waste our reading time on looking for a smoking gun
rothwellss 1 year ago
There is so much in the cannon that could only have been written by someone
familiar not only with colloquial phrases but Stratford colloquialisms.
Any discussion about authorship is totally redundant and pointless...move on ffs.
cwwiss1 1 year ago
YAAH yet another ass hole
dikcene 1 year ago
the music here is far to intrusive
cwwiss1 1 year ago
why would anyone ascribe all those plays to someone who didn't write them?
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 Research the Shakespeare authorship question. It is fascinating. It has been going on for centuries, yet I only learned of it a few years ago and am researching it in earnest now. Yes, it is insane--I agree completely, but the life of W. Shaksper is so incongruous with what one would expect of a man of letters. It was the illiterate daughters that worried me, especially after reading the Sonnets. If the Stratford case it true, then the Bard was a cruel man, raising his girls illiterate.
angerdux8 1 year ago
Didn't know there was a controversy-- thought that the author was Shakespeare. See this is what is learned in the public school system.
LawrenceBean11 1 year ago
Here is the website to check: shakespeareauthorshipDOTcom
zahir13 1 year ago
When I began to learn English I would like to read it directly in Shakespeare, the Everest of English language.
I regret to be born in France, the french Shakespeare was certainly not Molière (when we say "la langue de Molière" nor Racine), but Corneille who was great miss to become the french Shakespeare, Malherbe and the Académie killed the imagination in theatre, Shakespeare is really universal he is not comparable.
teddythefrency 1 year ago
Hamlet was named after Shakespeare's 11 year old son Hamnet died of the plague 5 years earlier in 1596.
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 Isn't Hamlet based on "The Life of Amleth", which parallels the Hamlet storyline exactly?
angerdux8 1 year ago
@angerdux8 you are correct. I guessed that is was named after his son . I didn't
know about "The life of Amleth"..my bad. However he could have dedicated it to him as the names are so similar? The graveyard scene is one of the most poignant moments in the whole cannon .Could he have been speaking to his dead son?
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 Well, I am not sure that William Shakespeare of Stratford was the author of the plays.He may have been a collaborator, as was common then, but his life, the lack of any kind of paper trail in his name that would link him to the plays---there is nothing. Plus, he never taught his daughters to read. Only one, I believe, could sign her name; the other used an X. Odd.
angerdux8 1 year ago
@angerdux8
yes...and Jesus didn't really exist because we don't have photo of him!
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 There is historical evidence outside of the Gospels that Jesus did, indeed, exist, and of his lineage. There is no proof that he came back from the dead and all of that. But there is more documentation about Jesus being Jesus--a radical Jewish reformer--than there is that Skasper wrote the plays. Did you know that Shake-spear was a common pseudonym used by writers who wanted to remain anonymous?
angerdux8 1 year ago
@angerdux8 how did I know that you would have a view on Jesus as well?
Have you got one on the moon landings?..did they really happen?
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 It's not a "view". What is wrong with you? When there is reasonable proof of a thing, it is reasonable to believe its existence. And yes, the moon landings happened. And terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center. No to the question of aliens. No to Bigfoot. Satisfied?
angerdux8 1 year ago
@angerdux8 All I am saying is that knowing that WS had a son named Hamnet who died a short time before Hamlet , arguably the greatest play of all time, was written with his dead son in mind. It may be possible to gain further insight into the mind of true genius and know that play better. Many great artists created their best work after a traumatic event. Pure speculation on my part..nothing more.
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 One source for Hamlet is the tale of Amleth [an anagram for Hamlet], in which a jealous brother kills his brother, the king; marries the king's wife, Getruth. Prince Amleth feigns madness. The evil usurper sends Amleth to England with two thugs and a letter of execution; Amleth changes the letters, the thugs are killed; he marries the English princess;returns and burns his uncle and his nobles to death in a mead hall.
angerdux8 1 year ago
Comment removed
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@angerdux8 I'm asking you to open your mind to the possibility that Shakespeare may have used that story as a vehicle to explore his own human condition after the death of his son Hamnet.
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 I always have an open mind, but I need substantive evidence to settle the authorship question and thus far I am not convinced that the Stratfordians have enough to state, unequivocally, that Shaksper the grain merchant was Shakespeare the poet. Anything is possible until it is proved.
angerdux8 1 year ago
@angerdux8 In Hamlet the Ghost (the father) says " cut off euen in the blossomes of my sinne"
In a catholic testament now believed to have been written and signed by John Shakespeare and found concealed in his attic are the words "I may be possibly cut off in the blossome of my sins". Check Peter Ackroyd's biography of Shakespeare for verification.
cwwiss1 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 I will certainly look into it. Thank you.
angerdux8 1 year ago
@cwwiss1 So what? It proves nothing.
angerdux8 1 year ago
Entire books have been written directly referencing Oxford's letters, annotated books, and life experience to Shakes-peare's texts. Not that I am an Oxfordian, but Shakespeare's biographies are based on absolute speculation, outside of things like his suing and sending his neighbor to prison for something like a 7 pound debt....
angerdux8 1 year ago
@angerdux8 You refer to Shakespeare the grain merchant. Doubters like to say Shakespeare was just a businessman, but he was clearly an actor as in cast lists. There are a number of contemporary people on record referring to him as a playwright e.g Frances Meres, Ben Jonson and Jonson quotes Shakespeare's fellow actors talking about his writing of plays. Also Condell and Hemings. There is also a record of him having bought a place in Blackfriars near to The Globe Theatre.
heliotropezzz333 1 year ago
Look, if you are serious about defending Shaksper, who, although he had sufficient wealth, died without a single book referenced in his will; was satisfied to keep his daughters illiterate; had no celebrity within his own town after his retirement, no mention associating him with Shake-speare, even by his doctor son-in law who keep a copious diary; whose life makes no sense of his Sonnets; who was satirized by Jonson as a plagiarist who took credit for the work of others...
angerdux8 1 year ago
Outside of certain legal documents unrelated to the plays or the works, mention of Shakspeare is entirely anecdotal and contradictory. Jonson satirized Shakespeare as a plagiarist who stole unpublished works and took credit for them. In literary biography, the tradition is to source the works--find out how, where, and when the germs of singular ideas made their way into the works. For Shaksper there is nothing. Nada.
angerdux8 1 year ago
I got a spear that you can shake
Inferi2000 1 year ago
It was Bacon, everybody knows that by now.
GhostofCliffGullett 1 year ago
I have just shat thyself.
Irawdom 1 year ago
i dont care who wrote them, the plays are brilliant!
acerb45666555 1 year ago
A "different voice" in Shakespeare and Marlowe's plays? Only someone who is not familiar with the works of both would say that. It's true that the the later plays are not much like Marlowe's; but if Marlowe was the author, one would expect his style to change as he matured. The earliest plays attributed to "Shakespeare" are indistinguishable from Marlowe's work.
daver852 1 year ago
@daver852 I disagree [as much as I wish Marlowe had lived on]. People look at the iambic pentameter, but I look at the unusual diction Shakespeare employed. And style doesn't really change over time--themes do.
angerdux8 1 year ago
Add to all this that Shakespeare was a hoarder of grain in tough times to make money, he took people to court for trifles - yet didn't mind anyone at all publishing Shakespeare plays. He was a tax-evader and was listed as "untraceable" by the authorities(the greatest literary figure of his day?), his effigy after death is of (2 artists of the time engraved the same image) a grain merchant, the pen was nowhere in their depictions. I just think we should keep an open mind, Shakespeare is a problem
Almuric7 1 year ago
@Almuric7 An example of the difference in "voice" between Marlowe and Shakespeare. Shakespeare has characters that command the love of the audience. Look at the video responses to Romeo and Juliet. Many teenagers say they love, Mercutio, Benvolio, Romeo or even Tybalt. People empathise with Hamlet and King Lear for instance. The list goes on. What characters does Marlowe have that elicit such affection?
heliotropezzz333 1 year ago
@heliotropezzz333 I do agree the works ascribed to Marlowe are in no way equal (except maybe with regard to their innovative qualities at the time of their creation) to the Shakespeare works. I just think it's very strange that these works came from such a vague seemingly unscholarly man in every respect. The fact that Marlowe's works aren't performed nowadays backs your argument up too. My point is there seem more problems ascribing the works to Shakespeare, than linking them to a dead poet.
Almuric7 1 year ago
@Almuric7 The only "problem" here is your inability to comprehend the fact that a lower-class man from Stratford was born with literary genius. ALL of the evidence that survives says that William Shakespeare of Stratford is the author; NONE of it points to anyone else. The vast majority of people that think that there is another "true author" of the works are ignorant of Elizabethan history and wave away facts like they were troublesome flies.
LostBoy76 1 year ago
@LostBoy76 Christopher Marlowe was lower class too.
Almuric7 1 year ago
@LostBoy76 Ah, there you are, LostBoy. Ready to answer Dr. Stritmatter's question or are you gong to admit you don't know as much as you would have us believe you know? Any good Googler should be able to come up with the answer in under two minutes - no advanced degrees in Englsh Lit. or even Elizabethan history required.
If you've forgotten the question I'll be happy to repeat it for you.
librarylu 1 year ago
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librarylu 1 year ago
It's true the voice in Marlowe's prose and poetry differs from Shakespeare's somewhat - but we must remember that we're looking at a Marlowe who's entire style was experimentation, all the plays by him are different, should the weird way he dies have been a cover, it'd explain why (according to Rev. John Ward in 1662) Shakespeare's own Grandaughter denied he had even been a poet. Add to that his lack of proof of having even a grammar school education, no literary links or items in his will.
Almuric7 1 year ago
Hoe lang geleden leeefde Shakespeare?
Romeeehh 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I would love YOU to take a look at my videos of the replicas in Western Australia as my father built . I am Youngest Daughter of Celebrated Engineer the Late Leo Fowler he built two full size exact replicas of Shakespeare's Birthplace and Anne Hathaways Cottage these were built in 1970s. I have the Blue Prints they are part of Architecture in British history.
sallyannphotography 1 year ago
If you read Marlowe's plays and Shakespeare's plays, they have a quite different "voice". Although the "voice" in Marlowe's plays is consistent as is the "voice in Shakespeare's plays, they are just not the same as each other.
heliotropezzz333 2 years ago
Athena, Mother of Asclepius, bearer of the Rod of Asclepius and Lord of Medicine and of Healing.
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
"Athena, Greek goddess of wisdom, of household arts and crafts, of spinning and weaving, of textiles. Inventor of the flute, the plough and the ox-yoke, the horse bridle and the chariot. Athena, goddess of war, guardian of Athens, the city named for her; defender of heroes, champion of justice and civil law."
Ox-yoke! Aha! (Ox-joke.)
Oxford's crest does it for me, as well as his prowess i the tournaments. Will-i-am can have many meanings. I am that I am, quoth Edward in one of his poems.
librarylu 2 years ago
The date of Marlowe's birth is unknown but he was baptized on February 26, 1564, the same year of the birth of the supposed "William Shakespeare" (1564-1616)
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
Under the Pseudonym, "Shakespeare," (Spear-Shaker) the "Magician," Marlowe was resurrected and gained a second wind and a second chance at life thanks to the great charitable Lie of Ingram Frizer.
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
Spear-shaker also refers to Pallas Athena.
librarylu 2 years ago
Your mind is very insightful.
This story is quite complex. Pallas Athena also appears on Sir Francis Bacon's 1643, Nova Atlantis.
Which may explain why "Shakespeare" is cited as being born on AVON, for AVON is NOVA spelled backwards. Stratford means Straight Ford (Cross). Literally, "New Straight Cross." Probably, the Rosy Cross or Rosicrucianism.
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
Bacon's crest had a boar on it. So did Oxford's. Sogliardo had a headless boar on his. There was a William Shakspere born in Stratford-upon-Avon. Stratford was the theater district, now part of the city of London. A Londoner reading Jonson's verses introducing the 1st Folio would have thought of that Stratford rather than Stratford-upon-Avon four days journey away. Both Oxford and Mary Sidney had homes on the Avon. Her symbol was the swan. The swan was thought to be mute, only singing at death.
librarylu 2 years ago
That Shakespeare was the embossed reincarnation of the "Late"-Great Marlowe, the "Ghost of Marlowe," writing furtively and secretly in collaboration with other playwrights and authors.
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
I have always been of the opinion that Shakespeare was in fact the posthumous pseudonym of "Christopher Marlowe" of which he even bears the most striking resemblance. Shakespeare in portraiture resembles an agining Marlowe, fatter, and more esteemed.
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
Unfortunately none of the portraits are certainly of Shaksper or even of Marlowe. The Chandos may be Burbage. Marlowe's was found in a trash heap and may be another student.
Marlowe's writing is a match and he lived near Fisher's Folly. I think it's quite possible he was part of Edward de Vere's salon but I don't know of any documentation for this. There was certainly reason to get Marlowe out of England, but the possible documentation of him living and writing in Italy has disappeared.
librarylu 2 years ago 2
@librarylu yeah what authentic proof is there that Marlowe's portrait is even him? just because the man that found it said it was? The picture didn't even have his name on it. But the guy in it does have a look about him like he could be a "Christopher".
andrika1990 1 year ago
"Edward de Vere 17th Earl of Oxford" seems a propable candidature of authorship.
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
De Vere was in the right places at the right times, but so was the Earl of Rutland.
librarylu 2 years ago
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DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
Shakespeare is merely but a pseudonym for a motley group of esteemed anonymous writers and playwrights.
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
Motley? It's also possible one author used more than one pseudonym and that there was more colloboration and sharing of ideas than either side would like to admit.
Lord Bulbec's crest was a lion shaking a broken spear.
librarylu 2 years ago 2
So, you say that Shakespeare was in fact, Lord Bulbec, the Speare-Shaker?
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
He seems to have the strongest case. Marlovians have come up with some good stuff, however. The "upstart crow" may have been Edward Alleyn.
Sogliardo plans to get a suit just for sitting on the stage. Why would an actor do that? Heminge bought a coat of arms too, He was a grocer. The Poet-ape may have been Dekker. I don't think any of these supposed references to WS refer to the Stratford man. His involvement in the theater may have been as Francis Langley's enforcer.
librarylu 2 years ago
William Shakespeare was not a real personage who actually lived, wrote, performed, and died; His name is merely a clever, ingenious play on words.
Shakespeare means to Shake a Speare (Wand) like that of a Magician. Shakespeare was the Magician who brought the modern English language into being. Straford Upon Avon too is but another play on words. Avon is Nova spelled backwards, Latin for "New". Statford is Straight Ford (Cross). Literally "New Straight Cross."
DreadfulSolemnity 2 years ago
I wish all a merry Xmas and happy new year
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Monican theory keeps every player in their correct timeline and position Monican theory knows the answer is right in front of us but its us who aren't putting the pieces back together correctly . Monican theory is elegant new and logical .
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
The reality of Oxfordian position is that they are flogging poor dead horse deVere who has NO writers portfolio but they want to sell him off as the greatest writer of all time
LOL yes I am very stupid LU but even I won't be buying that one
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Nonsense. Edward de Vere was mentoned three times (best,first..) in The Arte of English Poesie
(1589). I don't consider Shakespeare to be the greatest writer of all time (my tastes run to A.A. Milne and Emily Dickenson) and the Shakespeare mania didn't start until the 1800s. We have letters in EOs own hand and poetry; Stratfordians might have two words written "by me". Jonson said he never blotted out a line - here are 11 blots in those 6 possible signatures. He couldn't write his name!
librarylu 2 years ago
Because Monican theory doesnt rely on falsification or conspiracy it is naturally approaching the problem from a far higher intellectual vantage point than deVere theory is Monican theory knows what deVeres place is a court writer famous in literary circles with no mass public appeal and a figure who fades with QE1 death. This is why none of his plays survive today
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
He faded with her death? He died the next year.
King James had eight Shakespeare plays produced at court when Oxford died.
"Monican theory" relies on a wild imagination with no documentary evidence to support it. Heminges and Condell had no qualifications for amassing the 1st Folio. Jonson did and his annuity from Lord Pembroke doubled at this time. Why would Susan Vere's brother-in-law do this?
How many of the works of other playwrights have been lost? Nashe's works were ordered burned.
librarylu 2 years ago
de Vere theory Is VERY clunky in order to run it has to falsify everything to do with WS in tier on tier of conspiracy that ultimately comes crashing down Monican theory doesnt falsify anyone at all or rely on conspiracy either all that it requires is that WS and QA HAVE had some type of connection this is where he has got all his inside info to write Macbeth and Hamlet
monicasm123 2 years ago
De Vere lived Hamlet. Peregrine Bertie, his brother-in-law was an ambassador to the Danish Court. MacBeth was Lady Lennox' family history. De Vere was on a guest list with her; presumably he knew her. He had his own literary circle based at Fisher's Folly, leased Blackfriars and sponsored two acting companies. He was an insider at court, Lord Great Chamberlain & favorite of the Queen.
Orthodoxy would have us believe the Stratford man got his inside information at the Mermaid tavern.
librarylu 2 years ago
Son 104 indicates it has been 3 junes since he First saw his love. This indicates it is not presently June the next poems deal with QE1 death Which DOES occur in June(this would be the 4th June) This time frame is PERFECT for them having met in Oct 1599
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Son 27 Describes a zealous pilgrimage that WS embarks on after a long journey The acting troupe was in Scotland from October to Nov WS DOES have time to compose and publish (at the cheapest publisher)
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
The contents of the passionate pilgrim are very revealing all sonnets taken from Annes favourite play Loves labour lost all others are references to a young Queen and love poems. This is clearly a book that has been hastily thrown together with poems that will personally appeal to Anne
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Theres a long tradition in Scotland that WS has been there and they seem to think it was in 1599 ( I think it was too). Certainly Anne behaves as if She is very familiar with WS straightaway wanting a private showing of Loves labour lost
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Try telling an orthodox Stratfordian scholar "monican theory" is elegant, new and logical. I'll give it "new" You say there's a Scottish tradition WS was there? There's a tradition in Ireland St. Patrick drove out the serpents. In a town I once lived near, Kevin Bacon was spotted at the local grocery. The paper printed an explanation that this was really someone's visiting brother-in-law, but there may be some who believe the paper was involved in a cover-up and Kevin Bacon was really there.
librarylu 2 years ago
Very simple WS HAS met both Anne and James in 1599 or possibly in 1598 in scotland There are at least 5 recorded pilgrimages to scotland by English acting troupes all of which are lead by Lawrence Fletcher of Lord Chamberlains men .( who is also honored by a cloth canopy along with WS). James honors Fletcher in Scotland giving him the freedom of the city.
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Source, please. Despite extensive scouring of the records no mention of William Shaksper being with touring companies has ever turned up. There is no record the Stratford man ever left England. The red cloth (four yards apiece) was for the investiture of King James in 1604 and had nothing to do with canopies. De Vere was one of the lords who bore Elizabeth in her canopied chair in the victory procession after the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. He was an accomplished writer by 1589.
librarylu 2 years ago
I WONT be writing any historical novel but WILL be presenting an alternative and (correct) interpretation of the events and the correct reading of the sonnets .
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
I said non-historical novel. You're obviously good at fiction.
You mentioned science earlier. In science, theory is as high as it gets; science describes the facts. So far, your "theory" hasn't made it to the level of hypothesis. Please present ONE fact.
There's nothing clunky about the case for Oxford and no great conspiracy needed either, just a small coverup by family and friends. You said in one of your deleted posts you hadn't read up on Oxford. Obviously, you still haven't.
librarylu 2 years ago
Monican theory can profile WS personality hint its NOT that nice. Son 62 he admits self love is ground into his heart in all the sonnets he fluctuates between idealising his subject then hating her and picking out the slightest wrinkle classical obsessional narcisistic "love"
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Once the clunky and conspiracy dependent deVere theory is purged from peoples minds and the far more elegant Monican theory is entertained then events certainly fall into place and follow a distinct logical and coherent pattern 'Monican theory elegantly links all protagonists together for at least 12 years and is fully aware that Anne is going to cause trouble and intrigue in whatever setting she is placed into
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Take two lithium and call me in the morning.
librarylu 2 years ago
Monican theory accepts the sonnets have been written for a crowned monarch but there are only two options QE1 or Anne Crowned queen of scotland . Monican theory knows that it ISN'T QE1 Also we see ALL dark lady sonnets appear AFTER Son 107 where clear references to QE1 death are made Anne IS THE PERFECT FIT
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Sonnets 138 and 144 were published in 1599 in The Passionate Pilgrim. Explain that one.
Where is it written they were written for a crowned monarch or are all about the same woman when they were to or about a woman?
The sonnets disappeared for thirty years and reemerged in a different order. How can we be sure the original order is correct? Obviously two were written years before Anne came to England. They fit well with Southampton, Vavasour and de Vere.
librarylu 2 years ago
The Sonnets definitely are definitely explained by Monican theory The sonnets from start to finish read as if they have been written by an accountant who is berating his errant and spendthrift client deVere would definitely NOT have written like this deVere saw money as secondary to social position WS sees it as a prerequisite for social standing
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Son 106 he makes it clear that the beautiful rhymes for dead ladies are being wasted and should in fact be praises for Anne he bemoans that noone is offering Anne praises
WS is NOT all that fussed over QE1
monicasm123 2 years ago
Stratfordians are guilty of reading too much into QE1 and not enough into Anne WS made some headway with QE1 but it is with Anne and James that he completely comes into his own . He is not offered any Royal patronage under QE1 neither is he her favourite playwright WS in Son 106 makes clear his views on QE1
monicasm123 2 years ago
Monican theory has no particular problem with WS having VD after all he does mention son 31 trophies of lovers gone (multiple sex partners). But WS is subtle he may be linking physical healing of an illness to emotional healing. In the sonnets leading up to this he is talking about fever and not being in good shape
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
These two sonnets are clearly a reworking of Marcianus Scholasticus work of the sleeping cupid whose brand is stolen by nymphs placed into a fountain and heats the water. Many scholars suggest this poem has been given to him by Jonson. Monican theory accepts this and thinks this poem marks his reconciliation with both Anne and Jonson
XXX
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monicasm123 2 years ago
Monican theory interprets the final two sonnets in the following way. They are representative of Shakespeares own healing . Entirely gone is the tale of sound and fury of the preceding sonnets and there is a peacefulness in these sonnets also an acceptance. WS has come full circle here and states the only Sovereign cure foe his malady lies within the Dark Ladies eyes who he states he will always love
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Monican theory very clearly demonstrates that from 1603 onwards Florio Personal secetary to QA WS Royal patronage of QA and James and BJ personal playwright to QA and James are ALL linked for a very long time in the same circle and all very definitely know each other. This is where the REAL Shakespeare story IS occurring deVere is definitely NOT a player in any of this
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
De Vere wasn't much of a player in James' court on account of being dead.
James did continue his £1000 annuity granted by the notoriously stingy Queen Elizabeth. Oxford had about half the income he needed after she gave some of his lands to Dudley and sued him for expenses incurred in his wardship while he was still a minor. He certainly wasn't the only noble to get into debt.
Florio may have been sent by Burghley as tutor/spy to Southampton but there's NO evidence Shaksper met either.
librarylu 2 years ago
De vere sold his estates to settle debts. He owed the Crown £3000 for his wardship, £4000 for his livery and £4445 in interest and penalties. Elizabeth may have bailed him out but it looks like she bankrupted him too. The blackest deeds could certainly have applied to her and it appears Oxford never forgave her for beheading his cousin, Norfolk. She didn't help him despite him "courting" her for favor and he had to borrow from Burghley for his travels and then sell lands to pay him back.
librarylu 2 years ago
What if "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;" refers not to a
lover but to his Queen, the one who outranked him and had rotten teeth? She sucked on a perfumed handkerchief to hide the "breath that from her reeks". Gloriana expected flattery from her courtiers. Raleigh was writing fawning poetry to her. De Vere may have been saying his love for her was more rare than this kind of "false compare". His "private friends" would have enjoyed the joke.
Note my original thought, monicasm.
librarylu 2 years ago
@librarylu I think his mistress sounds more like Amelia Lanyer. "her breasts are dun, black wires grow on her head." Elizabeth was a fair skinned red head.
heliotropezzz333 2 years ago
Maybe she had dark roots. XD Since monica is pushing Queen Anne I thought I'd push back with Queen Elizabeth. While Lanyer was at court she was Lord Hunsdon's mistress. It would have been risky indeed for her to be messing around with anyone else. My vote is for Anne Vavasour, but without a footnote on an original manuscript we'll never know for sure who she was. It is known Vavasour bore de Vere's son, Edward. There's a portrait of her and her hair was certainly dark. She looks rather ugly.
librarylu 2 years ago
Actually, Elizabeth is a good fit (except for the hair). She was thought a bastard ("a bastard's shame") even though Henry legitimatized her. English law forbade a bastard from sitting on the throne. If rumors about them were true she may have been de Vere's mistress in more ways than one circa 1574-75. (Don't worry, I'm not in the Prince Tudor camp yet.) Elizabeth was skilled on the virginals and the jacks could refer to Essex' execution. "When jacks go up heads come down"(De Vere to Raleigh).
librarylu 2 years ago
Anyone still believing the fiction that de Vere was a wastrel who squandered his inheritance needs to read Nina's Green's article, The Fall of the House of Oxford, in the first issue (online and free) of Brief Chronicles. Milord was RIPPED OFF. His maximum income would only have been £1777 + and that only for a short time due to the sale of lands to pay debts.His father had arranged a good marriage for him and expected to live to see it. Instead he died soon after. Who benefited? Robert Dudley.
librarylu 2 years ago
All sonets after 126 are clearly referencing Masque of Blackness 1605 Jonsons first masque written under Annes instructions. WS is continually whinging with jealousy and anger at both Anne and Jonson. WS and BJ dont patchup their differences until 1609. Monican theory knows this and no other reading is correct for the sonnets and the timeframe that they encompass.
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
No other reading is correct? Just what do the last two sonnets, which seem to be about with mercury baths for syphillis, have to do with the Masque of Blackness?
Are you planning to write a non-historical novel on this?
librarylu 2 years ago
WS pulls off the trick of Royal patronage but to him this is the silver medal this is why he is dismissive son 125 of the honor . WS REALLY wants to be Annes personal playwright BUT BJ has pipped him at the post why because he has shown QA at Allthorpe a fairy masque this is what has swung him into Annes favor She appoints him as her her personal masque writer son 126 is written to BJ and WS is venting his spleen and jealousy.
XXX
Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
All actors and playwrights know QE1 is a dead horse and there is clearly a scramble on for royal patronage . Bitter rivals in the War of theatres overnight become collaborators everyone is wanting a slice of the action. And NOONE is trying harder than WS and Ben Jonson
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Monica
monicasm123 2 years ago
Logic is at the forefront of WS actions . WS as a businessman knows QE1 wont last forever and by 1602 it is very clear the crown is going to go to James What do we see at this point ? Straight away WS is writing plays that will specifically appeal to James and Anne Macbeth Scottish king Clearly written for James with his interest in demonology. Hamlet A danish prince with underlying theme of uncertainty tailor made for Anne
monicasm123 2 years ago
WS narcissistic traits explain why in his writing he was very dismissive of both common people and aristrocrats he clearly thought he was better than both groups. Monican theory already understands the profile for WS personality and the sonnets do nothing but confirm that. WS has a MAJOR ego its an ego that will quickly switch to extreme jealousy and hate and rage the second he doesn't get something that he wants. The sonnets of course very clearly bear this out.
XXX
monicasm123 2 years ago
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opie996st4 2 years ago
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monicasm123 2 years ago
Monica, get help.
librarylu 2 years ago
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