Fix UC: 5% Of Your $ For 20 Years Instead of College Tuition

[benchfordeath]

Cenk, its not a regressive tax, it's a FLAT tax and relative to current payment system (flat fee), the rich are actually hit significantly harder so if anything, this proposal is incredibly progressive.

[PrezidentHughes]

The UK has a slightly similar system that is being implemented this year. But, there is a cap, and you only pay if your income is above the cap, and you only pay what ever portion of the excess that is above the cap. I'm not 100% sure of the figures, but I think you start to pay back if your salary is above £21,000 p/a. But say your salary is £25,000 p/a, you only pay a percentage of the £4000 which is beyond the cap.

[mrmacthree]

This idea has been around for 40+ years...

[wtfsob123456]

It's a great idea.

[manonthemount]

Interesting plan, it frees graduates to risk innovating the best way to generate social and economic value with their education, even if that doesn't result in the highest salary

[Saitoe123]

Its worth looking into because on the numbers side you get the education and at the end of the day all the university asks for is 1 years pay ....1 yr of dues sounds good for a potential lifetime of achievement and stability. But im curious as to how they would charge the people who double major or go for masters and up.

[Projectoptimization]

I owe around $30000 for my teacher's credential. I can pay that off in 3 years on $40000 annual salary. Based on that salary, I would owe $2,000 a year for 20 years, which is $40000. So, I would need to pay more than I am supposed to. However, I agree that so long as one is able to get a job, this 5% annual income tax idea insures that everyone is able to pay off their debt. Also, there's less pressure because of the time allowed to pay off the debt and the lack of accruing interest.

[LiarsCheetahs]

@Projectoptimization $40,000 over 20 years is a LOT LESS than $30,000 over 3 years.

[hattersuffa]

I hope there will be more alternatives like this before I begin college.

[Ayohima]

no, I do not like this idea.It is not interesting, it is annoying. It is also not a practical idea.I think education should be free like other countries. end of story.lol.

[meggiebabe22]

I think this is an interesting idea but I definitely think it should be an option. I don't think students should have to be forced to pay off tuition for 20 years if they are able to pay it off more quickly. I get that the intention is good but I don't see it working practically. How would financial aid work? With my scholarships, financial aid and a small loan, I actually get paid to go to school. I definitely would not like to be forced into this kind of program.

[evilbanjoman]

@meggiebabe22 well said. 

[theyarecomingforyou]

We have a similar system in the UK, except it relates to the repaying of the student loan. You only make repayments if your earnings exceed a certain threshold, so it's much more fair to lower earners; if you never earn above the threshold then you never have to pay it back (at which point the cost is absorbed by the taxpayer). And universities have a cap on the maximum they can charge for a course. It means that education is more of a right than a business, which is how it should be.

[lordblazer]

@theyarecomingforyou

no my conservative friends who live in fantasy land want it to be a privilege and a business because authoritarianism rocks!!

Note: I'm not being serious, but this is how I see my fellow Americans who stick up to the current conservative bullshit.

[MCsuperChristina]

@theyarecomingforyou Yes, ours ar 9% of your income for, on average, 38 years. Which equates to more - even though Uni in England (Scotland is different) charges you less than in America.

[Harry182182]

20 years to pay off 4-5 years in a UC! And that depends on income. That's outrageous! This smells like socialism. Students should pay whatever there debt is whenever they have the money. This is just making a broken system even more broken and complicated. Tuition shouldn't even be that high to begin with...

[fiercedragoon1982]

Make sure you're double-checking your stories. This idea isn't all that radical or new, just severely underreported. Milton Friedman and James Tobin, both Nobel Prize winning economists, proposed this idea decades ago. James Tobin proposed the Tuition Postponement Option to Yale University around the late 70s and Milton Friedman proposed the idea of income contingent loans sometime in the 50s.

articles/news_and_politics/cha­tterbox/1999/02/yalie_crybabie­s(dot)html

[fiercedragoon1982]

This is a good idea. Milton Friedman and James Tobin proposed this plan a long time ago. The 5% number isn't all that important because it can be changed at some later date. What's most important is the substance of the idea. Eliot Spitzer has also talked at some length about this issue. You should read his article from 2009 at Slate.

"Loan Ranger: The way Americans pay for college is a mess. Here's how to fix it."

articles/news_and_politics/the­_best_policy/2009/03/loan_rang­er(dot)html

[PyROphantasie]

Initially I thought this was a good idea. Then I talked to my sister and she brought up that this would cause the UC's to ONLY put money into the "high paying" degrees and if you wanted to do something that doesn't make a decent amount of money, even though it's something you WANT to do, like Ana and broadcasting, you would end up getting a sub-par education because they would have no reason to fund something that doesn't make them money. Good bye History, Art, Psychiatry, EDUCATION, etc etc.

[571jans]

@PyROphantasie But to be honest, those are not promising fields. Universities have a duty to their students not to hand out worthless degrees. At any rate, one can learn the humanities on their own time just as well as they can in a classroom. This move would be better for the students and the country, no doubt.

[xXTheProRookieXx]

Why would you continue to pay if you could simply pay off the entire "old" tuition with your 5% in say 4 years instead of 20? How about a loan which states that the yearly payments is 5% of your earnings. This way its not a fixed rate loan, if you are successful you pay it off sooner, if you aren't you shouldn't be completely destroyed by debt.

[MUTT1126]

...anna looks goth.

[ralphinator2]

Awesome idea, but it must be an optional plan.

[matt1888a]

its an incentive for colleges to get students to graduate into higher paying jobs and field as well, win win

[matt1888a]

This sounds interesting

[ComputerHelp55]

Not fair, the people that become very rich would have to give much more money since 5% is a lot but then the poor dont have to pay as much

[Umbreona]

What motivates people? Money? That is what TYT has pointed out for YEARS. So if you make the college's pay directly linked to how high the earning of its graduates are then you incentivize them to give them the best education possible and get them high paying jobs.

[fritoman182]

The idea is interesting but needs some refinement. People should be able to opt out before they start their first semester. The percentage of income garnished and the time to pay it back should be variable because some people go to college and drop out after a semester and others go for their PhD obviously putting a strain on educational resources if they pay the same rate for 20 years. I like this idea because the federal/state government can't get in an fuck everything us like usual. :))

[qwecjc]

my concern is that this would continue the merging of business/markets and higher education... in this case, they'd be tied directly financially.

[scientificpeople02]

Due to the large increase in the tuition fares in the UK the government has had to compensate for the large amount of people who applied for tuition loans. So, for the government to gain that money back, as soon as you start to earn above 21,000 GBP you pay back 9% of it every year until you either pay it back fully or after 30 years, it is then wiped from the records completely. Now, if a student has the money to pay back early then the they have an interest added on to it.

[unicornnightmare]

There should be an option to pay it all off quickly.

[davalisk]

This is the Australian 2011-2012 schedule for repaying university debt. This is paid until total debt is paid off, the debt has no interest but is adjusted for inflation (2-3% per year on avg) Below $47,196 Nil $47,196-$52,572 4% $52,573-$57,947 4.5% $57,948-$60,993 5% $60,994-$65,563 5.5% $65,564-$71,006 6% $71,007-$74,743 6.5% $74,744-$82,253 7% $82,254-$87,649 7.5% $87,650 and above 8%

[tank1133]

Hell no. As a UCLA alumnus, I plan on writing Gene Block and Mark Yudof in the hopes that they listen to reason and shoot down this proposal. The tuition rate should be flat. The UC system would be carried and funded by the sciences graduates, while the liberal arts graduates would contribute very little overall. Doctors (MDs and science PhDs) and engineers would be forced to pay much more than a struggling theater and social science majors; who went to college just so that they could party.

[alias1928]

This actually seems kind of cool. I know 20 years seems long but some people wont be making as much out of school and they would need to equal out their expenses and profits somehow.

[kmstrothergarcia]

This sounds like an excellent idea. It would allow anyone to go to school without worrying about financial aid and all that bullshit. More importantly, it takes the pressure off of parents and especially helps out kids whose parents do not support them, but who are still expected to pay based on their parents' income level anyway.

[infernuscy]

this is so rubbish -- a very clever way to milk more money from you and to take control of you for the next 20 years -- in future years it will be a must to give your credit card password to start a degree --- man this is really getting out of hand -- bs exams you never learn anything , f student union that dosent do anything all day , very expensive food

what the f is going ....

[Udinbak]

it also incentivises the university to find way of increasing the earning potential of students once they graduate. maybe through better education, maybe by highlighting transferable skills if your first choise of career isn't initially forthcomming, or whatever. Though if I were running the system, I would most likely give the option to defer payments for a year or two, or three, in order for graduates to find employment and get a raise or promotion. because short term loss = long term gain.

[NeccoWecco]

I don't understand how schools need 100million+ to function for a year... it's fucking stupid and crooked. If you're smart you'll learn a 2nd language and gtfo of the US.

[toastsandwich]

then how would scholarships and grants work?

[MaggieRoara]

this is fantastic, this will give universities incentive to hook their student with courses that would best enable to get a job. and it will be incentive to help you get higher paying job.

[bman006bjj15843]

if you are making a mean salary of 100k over the next 20 yrs, it would cost approx. 100k to go to school... Talk about expensive.

[inademv]

@bman006bjj15843 That isn't much compared to how much it costs now to get a graduate degree (the one likely to get you said 100k salary) when you factor in interest.

[IconoClastPhilosophy]

this is a GREAT idea

[kazooga1234]

maybe they could work out that kink by highering the tax if you are making over a certain amount and most people wont be making that much and ha bisky upload

[ApeTankProductions]

Then they hike it to 10%, then 20%.....

[lilgaything]

Why would they do this already? Colleges get over 50% of ur salary for 30 years already XD

[LovelyLadyLo11]

Make it 10 years and I would think it's a great idea.

[aaronpolitical]

@LovelyLadyLo11 I just spelled out the math in another comment. It already looks like a great idea.

[NeccoWecco]

The cost of college is a fraud to begin with.

[Kokojin]

@NeccoWecco Exactly!

[2Critical4You]

Put all education as a tax. Come on US. DO IT! You will not regret it.

[NeccoWecco]

@2Critical4You Except that many families already pay 50% of the income towards federal tax, state tax, and insurances and bills...

[2Critical4You]

@NeccoWecco That's because your tax system is so unfair. The effective tax rate for a lot of millionaires is less than 20%. Some banks even have negative tax rates believe it or not. Personally I believe that 49% tax should be the maximum for anyone.

[NeccoWecco]

@2Critical4You Here in Spain it's illegal to pay more than 20% of your income towards taxes, and that pays for healthcare and public education (including university). And even though there is high unemployment, people are not on the streets like they are in the states because there are a lot of options for those who need help. I guess it is much easier with a smaller population, but still, the numbers should be proportionate.

[2Critical4You]

@NeccoWecco I think that everyone should pay 20-40 depending on income. However the most extreme tax I can personally allow is 49%. (because the majority of the income you should get to keep) The problem in the US is a mixture of rich people not paying enough taxes and >40% of the population earning less than 22'000 per year and wasteful spending. (military...)

[flake452]

Wont work, big earners will just get loans or more likely have their family to pay for it. Low earners and medium earners will not cover the cost.

[moviedude22]

cenk is full of it...FULL OF IT!

[KamuiSeph]

The thing I like about this is that universities would have an interest in what the fuck you do after you graduate. So, there would be an incentive for them to teach their students better and provide them with better experience and opportunities. If you have 1000 students and you teach them jack shit, they aren't gonna pay much. If you invest in them, pay good teachers good money = better trained students = better jobs = more cash flow. So the business model would promote achievement!

[TruthDevours]

@KamuiSeph

That's like saying they have the same incentive now. The only thing that makes this appealing to universities is the direct relationship they'll have with student income. This'll put them on par with things like work-release camps or income liens for child support. No collection agencies. No middle men. As long as you're working legally, THEY WILL GET THEIR MONEY.

[Treulos365]

@KamuiSeph On the other hand, I see this as a larger justification to phase out the humanities. Universities should be about intellectualism and enlightenment, and not purely about landing a highly profitable job. There's more to life than money, especially if it's at the expense of others.

[TheeBudGuru]

Let's see my last school loan is from 1989 and I'm still paying on it!

[Faladrin]

What would people who didn't manage to graduate pay? 5% of their McDonalds wage? They literally got nothing and likely didn't go the full 4 years. Is it 5 years at 5% of your income per year you attend? Many people now take 5 years to get a degree due to how many degrees are designed and with how their course work with prerequisates etc are layed out.

[Faladrin]

@Faladrin - Another thing: Schools suddenly make massive cuts to programs that train people for low income professions.

[Faladrin]

Also, 5% for 20 years is one years salary. I would think for most college graduates who actually find a job this would be a price hike over all.

[meadowsirl]

this is the most reasonable thing i have ever heard

[gulllars]

If they implement this, they should probably also allow an opt-out to pay up front if you can afford it. That will give a better ballance of funding during the transition period too.

[Stamps600]

I guarantee this never gets off the ground, because once a person makes more than 500k a year there will be so many lawsuits. The way contract law works is the more time the easier it is to get out of the contract.

Seems like UC would be the one getting screwed in this tuition break. One of these sounds good in theory people who do not plan ahead for the obvious bump in the road which will be a high net-worth individuals with top lawyers sueing to get out of the contract.

[DentistD1G]

so if i had a shitty liberal arts degree from some shitty college ,but i end up making a billion dollar pizza chain , they take 5% of my income ???? BULLSHIT!!!

it should be like this:

fixed tuition that you pay with 5% of your income (or less) until it is all payed ,5% can be paid for 20year maximum then you are off the hook .

[fingrid]

Sounds like a giant loop hole for me. Let me guess: the year this starts, the CEOs of the for-profit colleges will double their bonuses. It's free money for them.

[somaco7]

hahaha the Australian government paid my uni degree... and I didn't pay nothing back because I moved to the US of the A

[lukaskoube]

this is awesome! it is basically 1 year of pay for all of college :D that means it can cost as little as 25,000 for all 4 years!

[anastp1]

I believe it is great but thier should be a opt out option and regular tuition instead for people who choose so but I don't like how ana introduced the group as radical love ya tyt

[tomdt105]

it "punishes" the succesfull, i don't like it at all!

[timetogo2008]

Guaranteed the people with higher incomes in a system like this will try to get their percentage lowered.

[Treulos365]

This is a flat tax in another name.

[stanley526]

C'mon guys take out your calculators for a couple of minutes and look at the figures. What you would eventually pay equals about your 20 year average income. In most cases this won't pay for your average college education.

[GollaGandaLova]

Is Economics a good major? Will I be in tremendous debt when I come out of College? I'm looking to get my bachelors and graduate by 2015. Then maybe get an interneship, and start working get into the work force. No assuming i do something in the Economics field...how much debt do i accumulate over time?

[Moionfire]

@GollaGandaLova Economics majors get paid well. They can do any business function generally. The major is always on the list of best paid majors.

[MarsManatee]

This is an extremely interesting proposal and I have no idea how I feel about it yet.

[fdub301]

UC flat tax

[Tetraglot]

I wish this would apply to the UC I go to (University of Chicago)...

[ZKoftherebellion]

works out well, given the majority of this gen have lost so many brain cells from social mediaing and the internet they wont find jobs anyways....

[emalkin71]

In Australia, u can opt to pay up front or defer (HECS), most people defer payments. After graduation & finding work (paying more than $44 k) then the government taxes your income 4.4% till your accrued debt is paid. There are conditions i.e. amount of accrued debt etc 

This model used in the UK & works well, it free's up cash when you're studying to buy books, car, drinks what ever.

[MusicbyWordPlay]

i think this idea is rubbing people the wrong way, think about it if you are against high tuition and are for equal opportunity especially regarding higher education you have to give this idea some serious thought

[cjisavailable]

if you make 90,000 a year (like a good nurse), you pay 90k for the whole 20 years...which is way more if you actually pay for the actual tuition fee.....i dont think it should be 20years, it should be adjusted to what you earn...because it will be unbalance for different types of jobs, people.etc...it is plausible but i can see some mistakes coming its way.

[brionnakennedy]

I'm wondering is the 20years mandatory could you pay it off in 5 years if you were able? 20 years is way too long

[AMakYu]

I like the concept behind the idea, but it's obviously not going to work the way it is now. I'd like to actually see the finalized proposal before outright bashing it.

[HunnyBadger15]

5% of income is a lot, and for 20 years? That's sort of ridiculous... I say just focus on reforming the federal government and subsidize education instead of war, since return on investment is higher.

[TiradeFaction]

@HunnyBadger15 But let's be fair, that kind of federal reform is out of the hands of the UC regents :P

This proposal has flaws, but it sounds a lot like the Australian system, and it seems like it'd be much better than the current system. The tax percentage though should be progressive, not flat rate.

[HunnyBadger15]

@TiradeFaction You're right about federal reform being out of the hands of the UC regents. I guess I meant for the bigger picture of college education, that would be the best way to go. I was thinking about this after I posted though, but maybe they should make the 5% income payment an option, rather than a staple. That way, students have a choice to weigh their options, do some cost-benefit analysis and see if they would be paying off a fixed payment for tuition or 5% of their income.

[TiradeFaction]

@HunnyBadger15 Oh I agree, the best solution is to go back to properly funding public higher education, so we can reduce tuition to be affordable for all. But minus that, this deferment plan + a wage garnishment (tax?) seems a better system that the status quo. I agree, like the Australian deferment plan, it should be optional. That, and the wage garnishment should be progressive. I do like the incentive added (discount) to go into public service however.

[HunnyBadger15]

@TiradeFaction All good points. Essentially it is a tax, and I was skeptical at first about it being progressive, but on second thought, it does make sense from an income equity standpoint. And if it were an optional program to begin with, people shouldn't complain if a larger percentage of their income went to the school, knowing what they were getting into in the first place.

[Thanatos71185]

Take into account capital gains?

[SirGomez81]

20 years is to long. I would go for 10, 12 max.

[shade1978x]

This is an interesting idea. I'd like to hear more. Not that it affects me in any way, but it is an interesting payment model for higher education.

[xteric1]

What is my income comes from investments like mit Romney?

[therealallpro]

dont like

[RebelHQ]

Make it 15 yrs, standard repayment is 10 yrs.

[ThePinkDaises]

Bad idea.

[MaicoMoon]

Fix UC is stupid as shit, there's already IBR.

[Martyj2009]

What if we don't graduate because we don't want to pay 5%?

[Crazea]

20 years is too long, should be 10 or less.

[gzm858]

That would quite literally make alumni indentured servants

[fdub301]

@gzm858 unlike the current student loan system.

[Baalthazaq]

@gzm858 If by literally you mean not at all....

Literal: You'd work for the uni, for no pay, for x years.

In this case: You pay the uni... after you leave...

It isn't anything to do with indentured servitude. They're the ones providing the service to you!

[cpufightclub]

@gzm858 so.... flame throwers?

[aaronpolitical]

@gzm858 Yet there's no problem offering this. If you want to take it, great. If not, don't. Think about the math of it. If you made an average of $100,000 a year for those 20 years, you'd pay $5,000 a year for 20 years, which is $100,000. That's what you're paying right now for a good college, if not more, and this is over time, after you have a job! And how many will actually make that much on average?

It's a good deal.

[osaka35]

@gzm858 the point is that it relies on them getting a job. So the better the position they get after getting out of their college, the more money they get. so therefore it's in the college's interest to ensure the students get the best jobs possible. If the student doesn't get a job, then they don't have to pay, obviously.

[inademv]

@gzm858 Because 5% is such a burden. Go fuck yourself. I bet you think all taxes are theft too.

[McScreenName]

@gzm858 BUT...taking out loans for college is pretty much the same thing :/

[ihaterobbie123]

Shit idea.

[domino18717]

I don't like how it puts you in debt for so long. I'd rather be able to work my way through school and graduate debt free than graduate and be constantly having a bill to pay for the next 20 years of my life. But I agree with whoever said nothing wrong with putting ideas out there.

[TheAce1082]

@domino18717 exactly. this only helps people who literally cannot pay a single cent for tuition. in that case there are scholarships. if u work hard u can easily get scholarships. i have received tons and tons of scholarships that reduce the amount of money i pay for school it really helps. i have a friend who pays $0 for tuition at a top business school because of scholarships.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@TheAce1082 That's ignorant to think EVERYONE in the school will be able to get a free ride from scholarships.

[MrHav1k]

Stupid. I hate this. This punishes the successful before they're even successful...

Fuck this. Not happening.

[MrHav1k]

I don't like it. How about just make it cheaper up front? Its 20 years. Most student loans only last ten years....

I don't like it, but it wont impact me.

[TheAce1082]

i'd rather the state just subsidize tuition. this would hurt the UC system soooo much. it really is a literal tax against success. and plus if it applies for 20 years who knows what you will be then. if this was implemented at any school i would cross it off my list.

[DeJach]

What a weasel way of putting it. "5% for 20 years". It's basically demanding one year of your average salary over that time. You'll never see the top earners because they'll skip college altogether. (I'll note as examples only Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg.) I'd imagine a lot of others on the spectrum would skip college too, for instance one reason may be because "fuck you college, you will cost what I'm willing to pay not what my future self might make independent of your meddling."

[MaxAime]

Never gonna happen, too many student will be able to enroll. And in twenty years the dollar will be worth so much less then what it's worth today.

[NikEgUy101]

Nothing wrong with putting ideas out there on the table.

[TheAce1082]

thats terrible! that discourages success. wtf? i would never go to uc. if i graduate i get a good job i'll be paying more than someone who can't find one?

[Cuddlebunzzzz]

@TheAce1082 how does that discourage success? it encourages colleges to produce more successful students, since students with higher income = more money going back to the college. i don't get what's up with people like you who think everyone wants to just sit around doing nothing and only work because someone is making them. most people want to be productive in some way.

[TheAce1082]

@Cuddlebunzzzz colleges don't determine everything. there is a limit for what they can do. the best they can do is get you a good contact. then its up to you. it does discourage success because it encourages people to go for lower paying jobs which are lower paying for a reason. we need scientists and engineers to make the world better. 

[Cuddlebunzzzz]

@TheAce1082 how the hell does that encourage you to go for lower paying jobs? that's like saying taxes encourage people to get lower paying jobs. i don't see Bill Gates giving up his fortune to go work at McDonald's. like Cenk said, if you make less money that 5% hurts you a lot more. if you only make 30k a year, 5%= 1500, and after all the other taxes you only have maybe 25k left at most. if you make 100k, 5%= 5k, after taxes you have maybe 70k left, which is still way more than 30k.

[GotJerf]

It makes schools care about how well you do after college too. Right now colleges get your money up front and don't care how well you do afterwards to pay off your huge debt. Here, colleges are more invested in your future after college because the better you do, the better they do.

[BrooklynJEW7]

It could work. It would force the universities to try and have more successful students with a larger income to pay. Maybe they can offer this as an option to those who want it and not force it onto everyone?

[nuigurumisama]

hmm that is an interesting idea. it could be used in some other situations too.

[DeJach]

No thanks.

[greykraken]

I think its interesting because it might push colleges even further to get students to good employment. It seems that it would become simple math: Get Alumni to higher income jobs to get more money from them. Maybe

[erikbateson]

Robert Reich has proposed some very similar ideas.

[fma891]

It's definitely an interesting proposal. Basically if you have the money to pay for college, don't do this. But, if its a choice between taking out a ton of loans, or do this, I would definitely take the 5% for 20 years. But I would feel kind of silly at 38 years old still paying for college haha.

[CTTMOGK]

@fma891 Do you know how many people are paying student loans off at 38 already?

[TiradeFaction]

@fma891 Yeah, but a lot of 38 year olds are still paying student loans.

[IdidnotFartedIswear]

well some idiots give 10% to a imaginary friend so the guys who represent him in earth can drink good wine

[xCroB93x]

SOCIALLISM!!

[Yuuko41]

What a fascinating idea. Although I do think there should be percentage brackets for people with higher incomes...

But then again, I live in Canada where the tuition for public education isn't as astronomical.

[KissFromDaddy]

I like it. Why do TYT videos cut off when I feel like there is more that you're trying to say.

[IntelligentsiaUS]

Interesting idea...wonder if they'll actually implement it in the near future.

[jshzigler]

Don't agree with this at all for obvious reasons.

[xCroB93x]

too radical

[haydnstv]

fIRST