Studs Terkel and William F. Buckley - "People are fed up"

[DrAvrington]

Another bloody Socialist and ya wonder why America's/West's collapsing...

[detox4u]

Studs Terkel is a melodramatic thespian and a self admitted liar, you cant take him seriously as an intellect.

[stevevandien]

I'm a conservative, so naturally I admire Buckley. But I also hold Terkel in high regard. He was a great oral historian, a cultivated man with a restless and wide-ranging mind, and an articulate spokesman for liberalism. AND you gotta love a guy who enjoyed his Martinis and cigars into his 90s:) --

[LandonHobbs]

Buckley wins. Any time you have to cut off your interlocutor and appeal to pathos, disregarding the substance of the opposing argument (in this case a basic implication of the LAW of scarcity which any Economics 101 student should be able to understand), any time, I say, in which you are forced to resort to such rhetorical problem-dodging to "win" an argument, you only thereby expose your own intellectual inadequacy. This is a perfect example why EVERYONE should have a grounding in economics.

[robtul12]

Does anyone have the full discussion?

[CausalObserver74]

If you do come across the full discussion please link it to me, thanks!

[cdddraftsman]

The problem with liberal thoughts on social reforms regarding money is that they eventually run out of spending other people income .

[bapyou]

Fucking idiot.

[fileboy2002]

America's standard of living has gone up since 1959, but so has the level of inequality. What that means, in a nutshell, is that as total wealth grew, the disparity between the haves and have-not (or have-less) also increased. That greater overall wealth now resides in far fewer hands than it once did.

[iamcreepindeath]

joeocho88- I am a working, average American and William F. Buckley does speak for me. Also, the amount of people a person appeals to is irrelevant to the validity of their claims. And if  you want to poke fun at his accent, I suggest you do a little more research on him, opposed to mindless insults.

[TimeWarp66]

Well said.

[bapyou]

@iamcreepindeath If you're an "working, average American," you should know that William F. Buckley never in his life spoke for you, nor would he ever have done so. Buckley represented, always, America's wealthy elites, no one else. Ronald Reagan also represented wealthy elites, enacting laws providing for the greatest transfer of wealth from the poor & middle classes to the already-wealthy classes in history, until, today, we have the greaest disparity of wealth ever.

[iamcreepindeath]

@bapyou That is a matter of interpretation; I can choose to whom represents my beliefs freely. I happen to believe an individual who spent his life advocating smaller government and the empowerment of the individual represents my beliefs more so than his left counterparts.

As for the latter portion of your statement, that is another debate entirely.

[bapyou]

@iamcreepindeath Blah blah blah ... smaller government ... smaller government ... that's all you idiots repeat. You're all broken records, enlessly repreating the same thing. Meanwhile, the governments run by the so-called representatives of your philosophy (Reagan & the Bushes) have been the BIGGEST crooks of all. Get real, you goddamned nitwit. You sons of bitches need to be knocked on the goddamned side of your head. Goddamned fool. GODdamned FOOL!

[iamcreepindeath]

@bapyou At the very least, I suppose I can accuse you of being well-reasoned. You state that these "so-called" representatives of my philosophy have been the biggest crooks of all time. So you, yourself, are admitting the fact that they are not true representatives of my philosophy. I do not know anyone who claims either of the Bushes to be champions of conservatism or conservative thought. As for Reagan, like I said, that is another debate entirely.

[bapyou]

@iamcreepindeath "I do not know anyone who claims either of the Bushes to be champions of conservatism or conservative thought."

Ha ha! Yep. Disown disown disown. Run away! Run away! Run away!

American hypocrites of every stripe were never more infatuated than when Bush 2 was in office. And now? Whatsa matter? Afraid of your own shadow?

'N how 'bout that Bill Clinton? Best damned Republican President of the late 20th cetnury. Now that's something you can sink your teeth into. Cheers.

[iamcreepindeath]

@bapyou You are correct; I disown that in which does not belong.

[bapyou]

"The conservative movement in Washington ... thinks tanks, lobbyists, newspapers, fundraisers ... it's an industry that churns out the product of (conservative ideology). One of the things they do is excommunicate George W. Bush -- who was deeply unpopular, and therefore not a true conservative. That way they get to start over fresh saying "The problem with conservatism is not that we tried & failed, it's that we never really tried it in the first place." - historian Thomas Frank, 1/15/2010

[iamcreepindeath]

@bapyou George W. Bush did not adhere to some of the most fundamental conservative ideas. WFB said himself before Bush was elected that he was not a true conservative.

[bapyou]

@iamcreepindeath Thomas Frank was on the money with his comment. (See my previous comment.) This is what you batshit conservatards ALWAYS do. You dipshit moron fucks even disowned Ronald Fucking Reagan toward the end of his terms because he was falling in the polls; exactly what happened with GW Bush. You're pathetic. More to the point, conservatism is a pathetic and atavistic political philosophy that needs to be drowned in a dark tank. Cheers.

[iamcreepindeath]

@bapyou The problem with what you are saying is that prior to George W. Bush's presidency we had prominent conservatives accusing him of not being a true conservative. This makes your point of us "disowning" people as a result of poll numbers void. I am curious to inquire as to your definition of conservatism.

[bapyou]

@iamcreepindeath "I am curious to inquire as to your definition of conservatism." What would that matter? More importantly, its definition changes constantly to suit the momentary needs of batshit conservanitwits.

Tell us again how great small government is ... while you run for office! Fucking hypocrites. Fucking worthless fucking hypocrites. The only fucking thing you deserve is what comes out of the barrel of a gun. And you'll get it too, you fucking hypocrites. Soon. Worthless fucks.

[iamcreepindeath]

@bapyou It would not necessarily matter. That is why I said out of curiosity.

[shamgar001]

@iamcreepindeath Please don't feed the trolls.

[iamcreepindeath]

@shamgar001 lol zo funi

[kosimpson]

the utility monster is eating us alive

[joeocho88]

I wouldn't exactly call these men "sages." I would call Buckley a representative of the Privleged Elite who inherit their glorified positions from their wealthy families and he does NOT speak for me or MOST Americans. Studs Terkel is not the elitist SNOB and HE speaks for people like ME! I wonder where William Buckley Junior gets that affected accent --HIS PEOPLE COME FROM TEXAS! ( Look it up!) Damn!

[Almuric7]

Some of the truth is in the middle ground: some of the cleverest people in the world tried to make Communism work and it failed, both Bush's (whichever one you like) tried the Capitalism99% route and ended up in a recession (both of them). Truth and fairness aren't on either side, they're in a mix of the two ideologies. Just my unqualified opinion.

[bapyou]

"Every socialist experiment in the 20th century - without exception - has either been crushed, overthrown, invaded, corrupted, perverted, subverted, destabilized, or otherwise had life made impossible for it, by the United States. Not one socialist government was permitted to rise or fall on its own merits; not one was left secure enough to drop its guard against the all-powerful enemy abroad and freely & fully relax control at home."

- William Blum in 'Killing Hope.'

[destinytek74]

He's writing in caps. He's must be correct. Just look at how strongly he feels about this subject. I applaud the way you emphasize your point. How innovative too. caps lock. my God, you are a genius. let's listen to this guy ; )

[shellsandbells]

fuck capitalism

[TimeWarp66]

(Facepalm)

I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.

Fail.

[3goodtimes]

I love Studs Terkel.

[bratneypiv]

I totally agree with you "3goodtimes". Studs was a national treasure, both for his brilliance and down to earthness. He interviewed such a wide range of people....valued the "working guy" as much as the "top guy'. He told the stories of "everyman".

[joeocho88]

capitalism HAS GOTTEN THIS COUNTRY INTO THE ECONOMIC MESS WE ARE IN TODAY! WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE COOPERATION AND HARD WORK INSTEAD OF CUTTHROAT COMPETITION AND GREED! LOOK AT THE PERFECT CAPITALIST -- BERNARD MADOFF, THE KHAZAR, UNTIL HE GOT CAUGHT AND I HOPE HE ROTS IN HELL!

[greenleem]

I agree look at how successful Cuba has been since communist revolution.

[fileboy2002]

Actually, living standards for ordinary Cubans are higher under Castro than they were under Batista; also, they are higher than average living standards in most of "capitalist" Latin America.

[MarxBakuninMe]

That's true. Cuba may be under dictatorship, but it's true they fare better than other Latin American nations generally.

[jbroadus]

I would love to see this entire forum if anyone has the full video.

[keyboardplaya]

I would say that even though capitalism is logical and makes sense on paper, but has just as many, if not more flaws as socialism or communism. We should really have a mixture of these different philosophies.

By the way, internet, it's not so simple when the economy isn't so hot and you can't find another job. My dad's a cardiologist and 50 Cent is making more money than him. Yeah, I think there are some problems with capitalism.

[dissolutionangel]

old post, i know- 50 cent making more than a cardiologist (who probably still makes a lot) is not system (i.e. capitalism) problem, it is a market problem.

[internetsftw]

It's called capitalism. If you can't handle working for less, find a new job. It's that simple.

[humanvise]

I think he just did

[CTFORUM]

Like being the CEO of a failing bank..?Capitalism works best when it comes with a healthy dose of social consciousness (thank you Warren Buffett). It is nothing but greed otherwise.

[johnedwards1968]

I think Buffet's been awesome. Has he ever done one of these forum events?

[CTFORUM]

We have certainly tried but he hasn't accepted yet. We'll keep trying!

[firstnamenavarre]

@internetsftw Capitalism works as described when people aren't undermining it and short-circuiting it to suit their short-term goals of getting a big pile of stuff and then dying.

[chardman1]

Thanks for adding this!

Rest in peace, Studs.