@TheHellnextdoor Why not sing about it? Folksingers and filksingers are not known for avoiding "touchy subjects." In this case, Leslie Fish has something important to say, something you may not have heard before.
@TheHellnextdoor History is a touchy subject, why remember it? Songs like this are part of the story we tell our children of what happened that day, and how we teach them. I'm sure Ms. Fish as any good singer was merely expressing what was in her heart, and did not necessarily intend this for kids, but I could see using this as something of a "toe in the water" to broach the topic or used as part of a community celebration.
@wynndwolfsong Why is it a touchy subject unless you've got an ox being gored or the children were raised on lies about what happened. The conundrum is what is fact what is the truth and what makes you think they are the same. Yes I'm the kid in class who ALWAYS how do you know and what makes you think that is correct?
There is nothing touchy about the subject. Only touchy subject I can see is when is TSA going to do a security system that works?
@TheHellnextdoor That's exactly the attitude that got 3000+of your "fellow" Americans killed, that day. The gate agents too one look at those shit stinking, rag-headed apostles of the pig fucking false "god" allah and did NOT want to let them anywhere near those planes. Thanks, though, to internal enemies like the ACLU, they were bullied out of acting rationally. Too bad. And, sadly, we're probably going to have to take another hit before we really wake up.
On 9/11 I was in the Missouri Ozarks with my two year old daughter in a motel, shopping for a house to live in. We had just finished our global travels. If you would like to read more about it, you can follow this link:
@morleydotes666 Me? I was at Ft. Lewis doing PT, I'd been back from Korea a whole month. Unlike many I served long and served hard. I saw the end of the cold war and humped my ass right into the gulf war. Which contrary to what losers will claim, we did what we promised and no more. Which I might say is more than most other presidents or congress has EVER done. Now do toddle of civillian, go get pepper sprayed at walmarx or mouth off somewher you are wanted.
No, no. The Koran doesn't simply retell those stories, it "corrects" them. It's really more of a corruption of the Torah/Old Testament and the New Testament than anything else. Seriously, read the Koran and compare it to the Bible, it's really alarming.
@shdowhunt60 Yes, it tells those stories from a different point of view. They are still the same stories, and it is still the same deity. You have to understand that it's all part of the same imaginary universe. What you are doing is like arguing about whether classical Star Trek or the Next Generation is the real thing. Well, neither is real, but when Mr. Spock makes a guest appearance in the newer version, he's the same character, even if you think his take on Vulcan philosophy has changed.
@AyaKatz I don't care if they're the same stories. Mohammed essentially says "No, no the Christains and Jews have it all wrong, this is how it really is". Hell, he changes and twists the stories to fit his own purpose. For example, in both the Torah and the Bible, murder is expressly forbidden. However, in the Koran only the murder of fellow Muslims, for whatever the reason, is forbidden. All others are fair game. Seriously, read the Bible and the Koran and compare.
@shdowhunt60 Read the OT. Jehovah orders plenty of bloodbaths for the uncircumcised. Saul lost his job as king because he wouldn't kill all those he was ordered to kill. But the really telling part is that the deity has the same hangups in both cases: not eating pork, circumcision, not drawing pictures of any living things. These are idiosyncrasies that help to identify him as a specific god. The only difference is the favored in-group. Compared to other gods around the globe: No resemblance.
@AyaKatz Well, for one thing, there's a passage in the Koran (I don't remember exactly where, but I know I've read it) claiming that Isa (Arabic for Jesus) is not Allah's son because Allah has no son. On the other hand, the New Testament has plenty to say on the subject, with Yahweh saying things like "This is my beloved son, in whom I am well-pleased" (Matthew 3:17), etc. (Would post more, but YouTube has a character limit...)
@musicluvr1974 I don't see that your evidence shows what you think it does. Yahweh does not originate in the New Testament. We meet him first in the Old Testament. There are many people who believe in Yahweh who do not accept the New Testament. On the other hand, the New Testament specifically says that it builds on what is in the OT. The Koran tells many of the same stories about Allah as are told about Yahweh in the Old Testament. It's the same character.
I was reading the Endking who says passengers should not be allowed arms. Passengers took down the panty bomber as well as the shoe bomber. Of course passengers also took down this Jewish guy who was tying tefillim (spelling?) on his arm to daven (ritual prayer) as well. Hindsight is 20/20 and a cop might have done that as well.
@lemonfemale I agree. Anybody can make a mistake. Cops don't have special powers of omniscience. What they do have is immunity from legal prosecution if they make a mistake in the line of duty. I think this tends to make the man on the street a little more careful to avoid mistakes than the average cop. But nobody is perfect, and that's just part of life.
I don't know whether the pilot was killed or he chose to crash the plane , but Leslie's version of the facts is the more romantic one: "sometimes suicide isn't a sin!"
Non-resistance made sense before 9/11. What changed things was this was no normal hijacking. The option was maybe die or certainly die. I have been robbed seven times. I never resisted. The script for a convenience store robbery is "get the money, get out" and I intended to go home at the end of my shift. If he tells me to kneel down on the floor, all bets are off. I carry a boxcutter. Hoka hey!
PS I believe they killed the pilot. The hijackers crashed the plane themselves.
@lemonfemale You're right that this was no ordinary hijacking. However, I've never been a big fan of non-resistance. Holding your fire till the right moment when it will do the most good makes sense. Resisting because "money" or "time" or "honor" is less important than lives makes much less sense -- and sets a very bad precedent. Good for you on packing a box cutter, but why not also a gun?
@AyaKatz That's nice...but a lifetime of training both before and after the miltary has taught me. Those people needed protecting by every means possible, period. IF that means you kill somebody and die in process, so mote it be. Blood on the hands? They'll wash and frankly anyone that puts you in that posistion wont be missed.
@AyaKatz Because I've never put the time in to learn to use one. Reaching for a gun has to be down to an instinct so you can do it when the guy is running around the counter right up to you (as one guy did. Call me a fool for going unarmed: I won't say you are wrong.) I see your position I think. Israel refuses to dicker with hijackers because that will just encourage more hijackings. On the other hand, living to fight another day also has merit. As long as you do fight on that other day.
The residents of Mecca and Medina did not send those terrorists. By all means, carry a gun and stop terrorists and murderers in their tracks -- but don't go after broad targets -- like the entire population of a city -- that have done you no wrong.
I am glad that you stand firmly behind the second amendment and are able to act when necessary. But when going to war, just as in avenging a personal wrong, it is immensely important to go after the party that broke the peace -- and not some innocent scapegoat. Otherwise, you are no better than they are.
@AyaKatz Now define innocent, scapegoat and explain why anyone should allow a terrorist to live any longer than you absolutly have to. 8^) Bonus point eplain why religion(s) should be treated any different than any other terrorist organization.
@GrigoriZhukov "Innocent", in this context, is someone who has done you no harm. "Scapegoat" is someone who is made to pay for another's sin. You proposed bombing Mecca. Mecca is a city in Saudi Arabia with a population of 1.7 million. How many of those people do you think are terrorists?
@AyaKatz and just where did I say mecca should be bombed? hmm? Obviously you are assuming much...though I've no time for ANY religion, I leave other to their otherness. That the children of abraham are incapable is very telling...those children by age being hebrew, christian and muslim. Most violent miscretants on the planet.
@GrigoriZhukov My apologies. I think it was TheShadow who suggested destroying Mecca and Medina. Then you followed up my reply to the Shadow by asking what I meant by "innocent" or "scapegoat", so I misinterpreted your question as being supportive of The Shadow's suggestion. My bad.
@AyaKatz It's cool. Mind you in fairness if the blow up mecca then they had to do the same for jeruselum, rome and a couple others in the same vein. Isn't amazing how people like shadow and the radical extremists of those religion don't seem to understand they all believe in teh same invisible man. Sad really.
@AyaKatz Aya, I'm not. The Second Amendment is set in GRANITE. We are NOT going to lose it, no matter what. I'll tell you something, I've made one single stand in my life, in Oakland, Ca. I did it with the very same 1911 .45 that my moms' dad carried, in 1917. I'm here because I had no compunction about ridding the world of a guy who was far less valuable than I. No tears, no regrets, no CHARGES. Western Civilization is in exactly the same boat.
@AyaKatz We're going to wake up and put these trogs in their place. (sometime after January 20, 2012) for good and all. It's just a shame that it hasn't happened, already. This war could have ended at the crackj of dawn, September 12, 2001. If we'd been the men our grandfathers were, it WOULD have. Well, we're still learning.
High fives, Leslie! What ticks me off is that Mecca and Medina are still standing almost ten years after 9-11. I guess we haven't quite kicked the PC habit, yet. But, the tide is turning. They'll both be nuked off the face of the earth before too much longer, I guarantee it. Afterward, when the radiation level's okay, we'll sweep out one of the remaining mosques and have a BBQ! I'll supply the ham and spare
@IsraeliteMessenger what never happened? hmmm? Because if you are one of those fucking truthers I'll rip your spleen out of your grandfathers ass and hand it too you covered in maggots and shit. 8^) if I'm in a good mood. Truthers are liars and fools who in search of a new faith made a lie theirs.
SteveM, I'd be curious to see some documentation to support the idea that it's okay to make holes in the cabin wall. It would be very helpful if you could back this up with facts!
the TV-show mythbusters tested this, several times.It turned out to be a myth
The pressure is not high enough and the hole is too small. Explosive decompression only occurred when a hole the size of a window was made with explosives. Even then //, there are proven instances of explosive decompression where the plane was still able to maintain control and land.
(This myth was revisited in episode 38 and it was re-busted.)
@lindahl01 IIRC, it was about 15 years ago that a passenger plane in Hawaii, after too much metal fatigue, lost *the entire top of the plane*. Fortunately, the passengers and crew were all belted down, and the pilot managed to land the plane safely. There was a marvelous photo taken by a news-chopper, showing the plane and all its passengers, looking eerily like a convertible car with the top down. So much for "explosive decompression". Look up the story on the Internet if you doubt me.
Well, an aircraft is not sealed even under normal circumstances. It is constantly refilled with fresh air from intakes, and emptied out through two exit valves, one ta the front and one almost at the end of the cabin. A bullet will simply create a new small leak and the outflow valves will tighten a bit and then the pressure will balance. Naturally tha aircraft will then descend, just in case.
Cont.. If the bullet hits something vital, like electrical wires och hydraulic lines, malfunctions might happen, but in a modern aircraft everything should be at least duplicated if it is vital. If you google "bullet hole cabin pressure" you will find many ask-the-official from airlines answering this query. Hope this helps even if I don't have direct documentation to give you.
@lindahl01 sorry dude...didn't realize i replied on the wrong damn poster, never ever post when undercaffinated or under the influence of a parrot eating your ear.
@AyaKatz well moron it's been proven and proven again and again by the military and aircraft manufacturers since aircraft had pressurized cockpits...must be 60+ years. So if you want to know get off your uneducated illread ass and read up on the subject. A well stocked library will be your best source to start.
You say that guns are bad for one reason (cabin pressure) but knives are bad for a different reason (gung ho vigilantes who attack the innocent on mere suspicion.) Your argument is unprincipled: only "cops" and "bad guys" should have weapons. What makes you so sure cops won't pierce the hull or shoot the wrong person? Is the state authority conferred on them what makes them so much better than ordinary mortals?
Punching a hole in a pressurized plane will NOT cause a catastrophe. This is an "urban legend," fostered by a special-effects scene in a James Bond shoot-em-up movie.
Because of ventilation concerns, pressurized airplanes already leak like sieves. One hole, more or less, will make no difference.
@TheEndKing I don't have to "go up there and create a few holes." I already know how pressurized aircraft work, and I understand enough physics to be able to embrace the concepts involved.
Do your research elsewhere than in Hollywood movies.
EndKing, the issue is not merely guns -- it's weapons of any sort. A well aimed shot from a passenger would have put each terrorist out of comission. But if guns are not allowed because of cabin pressure, what's the reason they take our knives and razor blades away from us? Do we want terrorists to be the only ones who are armed?
@AyaKatz: Because, they don't want us carving up someone whom we SUSPECT of terrorism, in a tightly enclosed space, a space that clearly drives some people a little crazy. We want to combat terrorists while up there, ok, cool. That's why I think we should put, like, cops or whoever up there. Let a professional deal with the heroic stuff. Because, a stressed out xenophobe, or just someone afraid of flying, now armed with a knife? I think that's as much a possible danger as a terrorist.
@AyaKatz: It wouldn't have worked because just ONE hole in that plane would have caused a major fucking catastrophe. I'm no scientist, but puncturing that highly pressurized cabin would have been BAD times.
... 911 is a touchy subject, why sing about it
TheHellnextdoor 3 months ago
@TheHellnextdoor Why not sing about it? Folksingers and filksingers are not known for avoiding "touchy subjects." In this case, Leslie Fish has something important to say, something you may not have heard before.
AyaKatz 3 months ago 6
@TheHellnextdoor History is a touchy subject, why remember it? Songs like this are part of the story we tell our children of what happened that day, and how we teach them. I'm sure Ms. Fish as any good singer was merely expressing what was in her heart, and did not necessarily intend this for kids, but I could see using this as something of a "toe in the water" to broach the topic or used as part of a community celebration.
wynndwolfsong 3 months ago 3
@wynndwolfsong Why is it a touchy subject unless you've got an ox being gored or the children were raised on lies about what happened. The conundrum is what is fact what is the truth and what makes you think they are the same. Yes I'm the kid in class who ALWAYS how do you know and what makes you think that is correct?
There is nothing touchy about the subject. Only touchy subject I can see is when is TSA going to do a security system that works?
GrigoriZhukov 3 months ago
@TheHellnextdoor That's exactly the attitude that got 3000+of your "fellow" Americans killed, that day. The gate agents too one look at those shit stinking, rag-headed apostles of the pig fucking false "god" allah and did NOT want to let them anywhere near those planes. Thanks, though, to internal enemies like the ACLU, they were bullied out of acting rationally. Too bad. And, sadly, we're probably going to have to take another hit before we really wake up.
TheOneTrueKaliban 1 week ago
and where were you?
morleydotes666 7 months ago
@morleydotes666
On 9/11 I was in the Missouri Ozarks with my two year old daughter in a motel, shopping for a house to live in. We had just finished our global travels. If you would like to read more about it, you can follow this link:
AyaKatz 7 months ago
hubpages.com/hub/The-Right-to-Bear-Arms-in-Flight
AyaKatz 7 months ago
@morleydotes666 Me? I was at Ft. Lewis doing PT, I'd been back from Korea a whole month. Unlike many I served long and served hard. I saw the end of the cold war and humped my ass right into the gulf war. Which contrary to what losers will claim, we did what we promised and no more. Which I might say is more than most other presidents or congress has EVER done. Now do toddle of civillian, go get pepper sprayed at walmarx or mouth off somewher you are wanted.
GrigoriZhukov 3 months ago
Wow, this song is depressing, but yet uplifting at the same time. How did Leslie Fish pull that off?
Is there any chance of uploading her other songs? Like "The Son is Also a Warrior" or "Gremlins"?
TerryB01 8 months ago
@TerryB01
Yes, this is a very moving song in the heroic tradition.
I'm not familiar with "The Son is Also a Warrior" and "Gremlins". I will have to ask Leslie about them...
AyaKatz 8 months ago
@AyaKatz I have both of those songs in my email that a friend gave me. if it wasn't for him I wouldn't even KNOW of Leslie Fish.
The Son is Also a Warrior is a song that doesn't promo war, but gives reason for it. Gremlins is just pure fun ^-^
TerryB01 8 months ago
I checked with Leslie. She confirms that she does indeed have such a song, only it's "The Sun is also a Warrior."
AyaKatz 7 months ago
@TerryB01 When did "The Son is also a Warrior" come out?
AyaKatz 8 months ago
@AyaKatz Sadly I don't know. Sorry.
TerryB01 8 months ago
Religious wars. Adults fighting about who has the cooler imaginary friend.
Nonamed22 8 months ago
@Nonamed22 , True!
AyaKatz 8 months ago
Thank you. IMHO this is Leslie Fish's Best Ever!!!
Lifeflame5 10 months ago
great song, thanks for posting! do you think you could post her "Sale at the Gun Store" song off this same CD?
dragonsofliberty 10 months ago
@dragonsofliberty Thanks. I would have to ask Leslie for permission. We'll see!
AyaKatz 10 months ago
No, no. The Koran doesn't simply retell those stories, it "corrects" them. It's really more of a corruption of the Torah/Old Testament and the New Testament than anything else. Seriously, read the Koran and compare it to the Bible, it's really alarming.
shdowhunt60 11 months ago
@shdowhunt60 Yes, it tells those stories from a different point of view. They are still the same stories, and it is still the same deity. You have to understand that it's all part of the same imaginary universe. What you are doing is like arguing about whether classical Star Trek or the Next Generation is the real thing. Well, neither is real, but when Mr. Spock makes a guest appearance in the newer version, he's the same character, even if you think his take on Vulcan philosophy has changed.
AyaKatz 11 months ago
@AyaKatz I don't care if they're the same stories. Mohammed essentially says "No, no the Christains and Jews have it all wrong, this is how it really is". Hell, he changes and twists the stories to fit his own purpose. For example, in both the Torah and the Bible, murder is expressly forbidden. However, in the Koran only the murder of fellow Muslims, for whatever the reason, is forbidden. All others are fair game. Seriously, read the Bible and the Koran and compare.
shdowhunt60 11 months ago 2
@shdowhunt60 Read the OT. Jehovah orders plenty of bloodbaths for the uncircumcised. Saul lost his job as king because he wouldn't kill all those he was ordered to kill. But the really telling part is that the deity has the same hangups in both cases: not eating pork, circumcision, not drawing pictures of any living things. These are idiosyncrasies that help to identify him as a specific god. The only difference is the favored in-group. Compared to other gods around the globe: No resemblance.
AyaKatz 11 months ago
@ Grigori and Aya: Allah and Yahweh are _not_ the same person... study it out before you go making statements like this, please...!
musicluvr1974 11 months ago
@musicluvr1974 Could you explain your reasoning?
AyaKatz 11 months ago
@AyaKatz Well, for one thing, there's a passage in the Koran (I don't remember exactly where, but I know I've read it) claiming that Isa (Arabic for Jesus) is not Allah's son because Allah has no son. On the other hand, the New Testament has plenty to say on the subject, with Yahweh saying things like "This is my beloved son, in whom I am well-pleased" (Matthew 3:17), etc. (Would post more, but YouTube has a character limit...)
musicluvr1974 11 months ago
@musicluvr1974 I don't see that your evidence shows what you think it does. Yahweh does not originate in the New Testament. We meet him first in the Old Testament. There are many people who believe in Yahweh who do not accept the New Testament. On the other hand, the New Testament specifically says that it builds on what is in the OT. The Koran tells many of the same stories about Allah as are told about Yahweh in the Old Testament. It's the same character.
AyaKatz 11 months ago
Allah and Yahweh are _not_ the same person... study it out before you go making statements like this, please...!
musicluvr1974 11 months ago
I was reading the Endking who says passengers should not be allowed arms. Passengers took down the panty bomber as well as the shoe bomber. Of course passengers also took down this Jewish guy who was tying tefillim (spelling?) on his arm to daven (ritual prayer) as well. Hindsight is 20/20 and a cop might have done that as well.
lemonfemale 1 year ago
@lemonfemale I agree. Anybody can make a mistake. Cops don't have special powers of omniscience. What they do have is immunity from legal prosecution if they make a mistake in the line of duty. I think this tends to make the man on the street a little more careful to avoid mistakes than the average cop. But nobody is perfect, and that's just part of life.
AyaKatz 1 year ago
I don't know whether the pilot was killed or he chose to crash the plane , but Leslie's version of the facts is the more romantic one: "sometimes suicide isn't a sin!"
AyaKatz 1 year ago
Non-resistance made sense before 9/11. What changed things was this was no normal hijacking. The option was maybe die or certainly die. I have been robbed seven times. I never resisted. The script for a convenience store robbery is "get the money, get out" and I intended to go home at the end of my shift. If he tells me to kneel down on the floor, all bets are off. I carry a boxcutter. Hoka hey!
PS I believe they killed the pilot. The hijackers crashed the plane themselves.
lemonfemale 1 year ago
@lemonfemale You're right that this was no ordinary hijacking. However, I've never been a big fan of non-resistance. Holding your fire till the right moment when it will do the most good makes sense. Resisting because "money" or "time" or "honor" is less important than lives makes much less sense -- and sets a very bad precedent. Good for you on packing a box cutter, but why not also a gun?
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz That's nice...but a lifetime of training both before and after the miltary has taught me. Those people needed protecting by every means possible, period. IF that means you kill somebody and die in process, so mote it be. Blood on the hands? They'll wash and frankly anyone that puts you in that posistion wont be missed.
GrigoriZhukov 1 year ago
@AyaKatz Because I've never put the time in to learn to use one. Reaching for a gun has to be down to an instinct so you can do it when the guy is running around the counter right up to you (as one guy did. Call me a fool for going unarmed: I won't say you are wrong.) I see your position I think. Israel refuses to dicker with hijackers because that will just encourage more hijackings. On the other hand, living to fight another day also has merit. As long as you do fight on that other day.
lemonfemale 1 year ago
The residents of Mecca and Medina did not send those terrorists. By all means, carry a gun and stop terrorists and murderers in their tracks -- but don't go after broad targets -- like the entire population of a city -- that have done you no wrong.
AyaKatz 1 year ago
I am glad that you stand firmly behind the second amendment and are able to act when necessary. But when going to war, just as in avenging a personal wrong, it is immensely important to go after the party that broke the peace -- and not some innocent scapegoat. Otherwise, you are no better than they are.
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz Now define innocent, scapegoat and explain why anyone should allow a terrorist to live any longer than you absolutly have to. 8^) Bonus point eplain why religion(s) should be treated any different than any other terrorist organization.
GrigoriZhukov 1 year ago
@GrigoriZhukov "Innocent", in this context, is someone who has done you no harm. "Scapegoat" is someone who is made to pay for another's sin. You proposed bombing Mecca. Mecca is a city in Saudi Arabia with a population of 1.7 million. How many of those people do you think are terrorists?
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz and just where did I say mecca should be bombed? hmm? Obviously you are assuming much...though I've no time for ANY religion, I leave other to their otherness. That the children of abraham are incapable is very telling...those children by age being hebrew, christian and muslim. Most violent miscretants on the planet.
GrigoriZhukov 1 year ago
@GrigoriZhukov My apologies. I think it was TheShadow who suggested destroying Mecca and Medina. Then you followed up my reply to the Shadow by asking what I meant by "innocent" or "scapegoat", so I misinterpreted your question as being supportive of The Shadow's suggestion. My bad.
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz It's cool. Mind you in fairness if the blow up mecca then they had to do the same for jeruselum, rome and a couple others in the same vein. Isn't amazing how people like shadow and the radical extremists of those religion don't seem to understand they all believe in teh same invisible man. Sad really.
GrigoriZhukov 1 year ago
@GrigoriZhukov Yes. It's exactly the same invisible man.
AyaKatz 1 year ago
Norm, I think you're missing the point. This isn't about starting a holy war. It's about the right to bear arms right here in the USA.
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz Aya, I'm not. The Second Amendment is set in GRANITE. We are NOT going to lose it, no matter what. I'll tell you something, I've made one single stand in my life, in Oakland, Ca. I did it with the very same 1911 .45 that my moms' dad carried, in 1917. I'm here because I had no compunction about ridding the world of a guy who was far less valuable than I. No tears, no regrets, no CHARGES. Western Civilization is in exactly the same boat.
theshadow1932 1 year ago
@AyaKatz We're going to wake up and put these trogs in their place. (sometime after January 20, 2012) for good and all. It's just a shame that it hasn't happened, already. This war could have ended at the crackj of dawn, September 12, 2001. If we'd been the men our grandfathers were, it WOULD have. Well, we're still learning.
Norm
theshadow1932 1 year ago
High fives, Leslie! What ticks me off is that Mecca and Medina are still standing almost ten years after 9-11. I guess we haven't quite kicked the PC habit, yet. But, the tide is turning. They'll both be nuked off the face of the earth before too much longer, I guarantee it. Afterward, when the radiation level's okay, we'll sweep out one of the remaining mosques and have a BBQ! I'll supply the ham and spare
ribs. You bring the beer!
Norm
theshadow1932 1 year ago 2
Try Leslie's site
AyaKatz 1 year ago
Where can I find Leslie Fish's Firestorm album? I've been looking for it for years with no luck.
Swindle1984 1 year ago
It never happened, just another government lie.
IsraeliteMessenger 1 year ago
@IsraeliteMessenger what never happened? hmmm? Because if you are one of those fucking truthers I'll rip your spleen out of your grandfathers ass and hand it too you covered in maggots and shit. 8^) if I'm in a good mood. Truthers are liars and fools who in search of a new faith made a lie theirs.
GrigoriZhukov 1 year ago
LeslieFish1, thanks for the information. If you have a link to a video of that plane looking like a convertible, please feel free to post here.
AyaKatz 1 year ago
Calbeck, it is a moving song!
AyaKatz 1 year ago
This actually brought tears to my eyes...
Calbeck 1 year ago
LadyMarPai, good story! I totally agree.
AyaKatz 1 year ago
This reminds me of an interview I read about with an Australian General and his planning on teaching shooting to a bunch of boy scouts.
The Interviewer was horrified and told the general she thought he was equipping them to become violent killers.
I loved his reply to her "Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?"
95% of the people in this country are NOT what people are implying. And if we allowed people to carry the guns they should this would be moot.
LadyMarPai 1 year ago
@LadyMarPai
That's just an old myth, sorry. Check snopes
lindahl01 1 year ago
InfantryMom, yes, they will never be forgotten! I just hope we can learn the right lessons from the example set by the heroes on Flight93
AyaKatz 1 year ago
I had never heard of this song before,... The 9/11 victoms will never be forgotten !!!
InfantryArmyMom 1 year ago
SteveM, I'd be curious to see some documentation to support the idea that it's okay to make holes in the cabin wall. It would be very helpful if you could back this up with facts!
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz
the TV-show mythbusters tested this, several times.It turned out to be a myth
The pressure is not high enough and the hole is too small. Explosive decompression only occurred when a hole the size of a window was made with explosives. Even then //, there are proven instances of explosive decompression where the plane was still able to maintain control and land.
(This myth was revisited in episode 38 and it was re-busted.)
lindahl01 1 year ago
@lindahl01 IIRC, it was about 15 years ago that a passenger plane in Hawaii, after too much metal fatigue, lost *the entire top of the plane*. Fortunately, the passengers and crew were all belted down, and the pilot managed to land the plane safely. There was a marvelous photo taken by a news-chopper, showing the plane and all its passengers, looking eerily like a convertible car with the top down. So much for "explosive decompression". Look up the story on the Internet if you doubt me.
LeslieFish1 1 year ago
@AyaKatz
Well, an aircraft is not sealed even under normal circumstances. It is constantly refilled with fresh air from intakes, and emptied out through two exit valves, one ta the front and one almost at the end of the cabin. A bullet will simply create a new small leak and the outflow valves will tighten a bit and then the pressure will balance. Naturally tha aircraft will then descend, just in case.
lindahl01 1 year ago
@AyaKatz
Cont.. If the bullet hits something vital, like electrical wires och hydraulic lines, malfunctions might happen, but in a modern aircraft everything should be at least duplicated if it is vital. If you google "bullet hole cabin pressure" you will find many ask-the-official from airlines answering this query. Hope this helps even if I don't have direct documentation to give you.
lindahl01 1 year ago
@lindahl01 sorry dude...didn't realize i replied on the wrong damn poster, never ever post when undercaffinated or under the influence of a parrot eating your ear.
GrigoriZhukov 1 year ago
@GrigoriZhukov *Parrot...eating...your ear..?...* Ehr, Yeah. Yeah, That's some good advice man. We're cool. *Backing away slowly*
lindahl01 1 year ago
@AyaKatz well moron it's been proven and proven again and again by the military and aircraft manufacturers since aircraft had pressurized cockpits...must be 60+ years. So if you want to know get off your uneducated illread ass and read up on the subject. A well stocked library will be your best source to start.
GrigoriZhukov 1 year ago
Endking,
You say that guns are bad for one reason (cabin pressure) but knives are bad for a different reason (gung ho vigilantes who attack the innocent on mere suspicion.) Your argument is unprincipled: only "cops" and "bad guys" should have weapons. What makes you so sure cops won't pierce the hull or shoot the wrong person? Is the state authority conferred on them what makes them so much better than ordinary mortals?
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz Don't worry endking is an uneducated knowitall on this subject.
GrigoriZhukov 1 year ago
@GrigoriZhukov Thanks. Good to know!
AyaKatz 1 year ago
Punching a hole in a pressurized plane will NOT cause a catastrophe. This is an "urban legend," fostered by a special-effects scene in a James Bond shoot-em-up movie.
Because of ventilation concerns, pressurized airplanes already leak like sieves. One hole, more or less, will make no difference.
SteveM1911A1 1 year ago
@SteveM1911A1: Ok, go up there and create a few holes. Tell me how it works out.
TheEndKing 1 year ago
@TheEndKing I don't have to "go up there and create a few holes." I already know how pressurized aircraft work, and I understand enough physics to be able to embrace the concepts involved.
Do your research elsewhere than in Hollywood movies.
(This is my last post on the subject.)
SteveM1911A1 1 year ago
@SteveM1911A1: Ok. Then prove it.
TheEndKing 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SteveM1911A1: Ok, go up there and create a few holes. Tell me how it works out.
TheEndKing 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SteveM1911A1: Ok, go up there and create a few holes. Tell me how it works out.
TheEndKing 1 year ago
EndKing, the issue is not merely guns -- it's weapons of any sort. A well aimed shot from a passenger would have put each terrorist out of comission. But if guns are not allowed because of cabin pressure, what's the reason they take our knives and razor blades away from us? Do we want terrorists to be the only ones who are armed?
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz: Because, they don't want us carving up someone whom we SUSPECT of terrorism, in a tightly enclosed space, a space that clearly drives some people a little crazy. We want to combat terrorists while up there, ok, cool. That's why I think we should put, like, cops or whoever up there. Let a professional deal with the heroic stuff. Because, a stressed out xenophobe, or just someone afraid of flying, now armed with a knife? I think that's as much a possible danger as a terrorist.
TheEndKing 1 year ago
EndKing, why do you think it would not have worked ? Do guns only work in the hands of terrorists, or can ordinary people use them, too?
AyaKatz 1 year ago
@AyaKatz: It wouldn't have worked because just ONE hole in that plane would have caused a major fucking catastrophe. I'm no scientist, but puncturing that highly pressurized cabin would have been BAD times.
TheEndKing 1 year ago
The irony of this being, the message being, "Ohhh, we should have guns", but if they had guns on that plane, it wouldn't have worked, at all.
TheEndKing 1 year ago
Yeah ok, Leslie.
TheEndKing 1 year ago
Well, you're in a situation where you have nothing to loss, and can save hundreds to thousands of other people. Fish is a very odd bird, politically.
ARP7777777 1 year ago
Sharscombe, thanks. Spread the word!
AyaKatz 1 year ago
"Freedom isn't free." Really reminds you of what it costs. Hat's off for this one.
sharscombe 1 year ago
I wonder what I would have done.
doctorpsycho1960 1 year ago