If the show had continued, we might have seen the whole of the Cartmell Masterplan. Oh well, we'll have to stick with the questionable "Lungbarrow" instead.
I think the new series did a great job of picking up where Sylvester's last season left off. I also think it's wrong to differentiate between the old and new series anyway, it's the same show that's been adapted to the audience of the time.
Got a page from the original script, from the end of episode 2, with a letter from The Master on the back of it.. Little did I know, I'd have a piece of history.
For the record... Sylvester's speech above was added BECAUSE John Nathan-Turner had twigged to the fact that the show was ending. That's why we got the ending that we did - recorded in post production and done as voice over - not in situ.
I imagine if JN-T had opted for a little montage like that, the public also may have realised, and protested more than they did... but even that wouldn't have been enough, unlike the 86 cancellation...
I know that, he did hope that the series would return, the speech was a plan in case that wasn't the case, if he knew that it was definatley going to be cancelled, then i'm sure he would have delivered something more epic than that, JNT liked to push the boundries of what he could do, and if he was sure it was ending he would have done something better....
Well to put it simply, I like the concept of running through the doctors lives. But I think some better footage of his counterparts could have been used.
Fair enough, I accept critisism, but in response to it, I did make this video a long time ago, I had little access to the clips I wanted, I think under those circumstances I think you can say I did fairly well, but I see your point :).
To the general public it was laughing stock, budgets fault really. But what people remembered of the show is in my opinion a prejudice in itself the centre of Doctor Who was always it's writing, it's what made the show popular, and Doctor Who wouldn't have gained that reputation if it wasn't the miss conception that it was cancelled because it was rubbish, It was cancelled because it was put in an impossible time slot next to a household show that had a wide audience appeal.
In a way Survival was the perfect ending, well alrrght Lungbarrow would've been more conclusive but, Survival was perfect for its lack of conclusiveness. 'The world doesn't end because the Doctor's not on your screens any more because he'll still be out there, saving the world.' That's how survival ends, with a realistic 'life goes on'
I agree with you, that's why I kept McCoy doing the speech, the idea i had in this was that what we had seen in Doctor Who being summed up into that same idea you said.
@RevivalV9001 You're wrong! I'm sorry but Doctor who is excellent, I first watched Doctor who when it came back and David Tennant was a really popular Doctor andf his episodes have taken Doctor who to the states. But that said I always hated Tennant and when i properly became a whoovian last year i got into the classic series and am now reading through the NA reprints and think that 7 was the best Doctor ever and Ace was ace.
@PapercutTwilight Fast pacing can be bad too- the stolen earth episode of the new in particular was a hodgepodge of wtf- I just let go any attempt to understand what was going on and just laugh at the mess of it all.
You are right though the original series could be very slow- trial of a time lord for example although in that was experimental- but in the best ones theres no way it could be done differently without sacrificing so much.
Moffat's episodes seem to have struck a great balance though
@PapercutTwilight It gives the audience time to get barings on what is happening and how it works, slow paced doesn't mean bad. It just means more time for the audience of those era's get a sense of feel and atmosphere to the story, this seperates the story arcs in a strategic way and makes every story matter, which in turn gives meaning to the show.
@PapercutTwilight yes but you have to take into account the fact that this was the 60's, 70's and 80's and the budget in those days given were pennies in comparison to the budget now. Longer stories means lets set construction, and more set construction costs money money that they didn't have, so naturally the pacing will be slow in order to get the best out of the story.
@PapercutTwilight ......The Classic series was slow paced, not awfully paced, it matched the era it was in as it made it possible for first time viewers to catch up with the plot, something the David Tennant years seemed to fail at due to all the story arcs.
@PapercutTwilight ......The Classic series was slow paced, not awfully paced, it matched the era it was in as it made it possible for first time viewers to catch up with the plot, something the David Tennant years seemed to fail at due to all the story arcs.
The 7th Doctor & Ace are my Doctor/Companion team. They are the ones I started with & love them forever. The final scene was awesome! This alternate ending is even better. Remembrance of the Daleks is my all time favorite episode. Two thumbs way up!
Come off it. 'The Cartmel Masterplan' was a load of bollocks because he had terrible writers, no budget and one of the worst actors in the history of television as his leading man. Hardly Baker, Hinchcliffe and Holmes was it?
That sounds like how it is now if you ask me! No, I understand where you are comming from. But I must have said that Sylvester wasn't a bad Dr. He just wasn't given the Dark Parts he asked for. JNT was more concerned about getting it abroad & the writters were far & few no thanks to JNT putting everyone off with No freedom.
What may have seemed shit back then, is the Gold of 2day. They managed to get it in the end, but it was already too late by then. B&Whites r the best tho! :-)
Right the problem with you is you didn't give 'The Cartmel Masterplan' a chance, after Colin Baker left the show had very much lost steam, it was hard restoring the mystery to the Doctor's character, and I certainly don't think he did a bad job, McCoy was an ok Doctor and was not really that bad an actor, The writers had strong story themes and episodes that didn't lose steam, even Tom Bakers stories on occasion lost steam e.g. Creature from the Pit, Andrew Cartmel did a great job.
They revitalised the show and restored it to it's former glory but brought it into the new decade (which could have been the 90's), the only reason the show was cancelled is because Michael Grade three years before put it in an almost impossible time slot to with stand. It was on at the same time as the most watched television show on ITV that had been around for decades, Doctor Who couldn't compete because of this. It was a shame they decided to axe it, it could have been so much better.
look i love this scene, but couldn't disagree more. I love old doctor who, but Waters of Mars is one of the best episodes of the show ever. The fact the show has more fans NOW than before should also tell you something
I see your opinion on the Matter, I have to disagree with you as I believe the classic series had a feel to it that the new series cannot match, even though by todays standards the special effects were naff, the classic series had a sense of intellegence in it's plots, as Robert Holmes stated it was geered plot wise to the intelligent 14 year old, while the new series is aimed at children, this is the reason
this is just my opinion but you are entitled to your own, lets just agree to disagree
Why oh WHY did they stop it at it's most Dark & Mysterious peek? There would have been some incredible stories. Instead it comes back in the 21st century & the Dr is horny & gets off with each & every one of his companions! Bring back Sylvester & ACE!
I'm sorry! But you have to admit that the Curse of Fenric is unbeatable, right? Fenris - The Wolf in Chains, norse mythology. Evil against evil - Pazuzu? The girl in Dragonfire? Lady Painfort's Chess set? How the Daleks new about the Hand of Omega?
Unfortunately the audience didn't give a shit about Lady Painfort's chess set or the Hand of Omega. The show was dead in the water then. 3 million viewers, when even Colin Baker's Doctor had got 8 million on one occasion? JNT didn't know what to do with it, McCoy was the worst actor in the Galaxy, the writers couldn't write and the BBC didn't want to give it any money. Personally, I was glad the show was put out of its misery.
Hey,one more thing..can ypu place the final quote of that final scene of the 7th Doctor on here? I want to create a sketch for it with the 7th Doctor and Ace at deviantart,and I can't quite make it all out from the audio.
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. come on Ace, we've got work to do"
love the speech
acemcshaneisepic 4 months ago
Ah, the classic series went out in style
legohoruswho 7 months ago
If the show had continued, we might have seen the whole of the Cartmell Masterplan. Oh well, we'll have to stick with the questionable "Lungbarrow" instead.
SoLinkSmash 7 months ago
What a shame the series was axed like it was in 1989, but these decisions are made sadly.
rojblake82 9 months ago
I think the new series did a great job of picking up where Sylvester's last season left off. I also think it's wrong to differentiate between the old and new series anyway, it's the same show that's been adapted to the audience of the time.
harveybullocks1281 1 year ago
Got a page from the original script, from the end of episode 2, with a letter from The Master on the back of it.. Little did I know, I'd have a piece of history.
psychonaut3 1 year ago
the true end of doctor who
cybertaylor 1 year ago
For the record... Sylvester's speech above was added BECAUSE John Nathan-Turner had twigged to the fact that the show was ending. That's why we got the ending that we did - recorded in post production and done as voice over - not in situ.
I imagine if JN-T had opted for a little montage like that, the public also may have realised, and protested more than they did... but even that wouldn't have been enough, unlike the 86 cancellation...
thecosmichobo 1 year ago
@thecosmichobo
I know that, he did hope that the series would return, the speech was a plan in case that wasn't the case, if he knew that it was definatley going to be cancelled, then i'm sure he would have delivered something more epic than that, JNT liked to push the boundries of what he could do, and if he was sure it was ending he would have done something better....
Timelord6661 1 year ago
not great.
pickering86 1 year ago
@pickering86
Care to elaborate???
Timelord6661 1 year ago
@Timelord6661
Well to put it simply, I like the concept of running through the doctors lives. But I think some better footage of his counterparts could have been used.
pickering86 1 year ago
@pickering86
Fair enough, I accept critisism, but in response to it, I did make this video a long time ago, I had little access to the clips I wanted, I think under those circumstances I think you can say I did fairly well, but I see your point :).
Timelord6661 1 year ago
@RevivalV9001 Wrong. Doctor Who was a laughing stock among the general public before the New Series. Do your research before spewing this nonsense.
WowbaggerGriffin 1 year ago
@WowbaggerGriffin
To the general public it was laughing stock, budgets fault really. But what people remembered of the show is in my opinion a prejudice in itself the centre of Doctor Who was always it's writing, it's what made the show popular, and Doctor Who wouldn't have gained that reputation if it wasn't the miss conception that it was cancelled because it was rubbish, It was cancelled because it was put in an impossible time slot next to a household show that had a wide audience appeal.
Timelord6661 1 year ago 5
@Timelord6661
That the director General of the bbc hated it
Themoredeluded 11 months ago
Somewhere else a tea is getting cold.
And so ends an television era. To make an appearance in 1996 and a formal return in 2005.
lkgrave 1 year ago 2
In a way Survival was the perfect ending, well alrrght Lungbarrow would've been more conclusive but, Survival was perfect for its lack of conclusiveness. 'The world doesn't end because the Doctor's not on your screens any more because he'll still be out there, saving the world.' That's how survival ends, with a realistic 'life goes on'
farshnuke 1 year ago
@farshnuke
I agree with you, that's why I kept McCoy doing the speech, the idea i had in this was that what we had seen in Doctor Who being summed up into that same idea you said.
Timelord6661 1 year ago
@RevivalV9001 You're wrong! I'm sorry but Doctor who is excellent, I first watched Doctor who when it came back and David Tennant was a really popular Doctor andf his episodes have taken Doctor who to the states. But that said I always hated Tennant and when i properly became a whoovian last year i got into the classic series and am now reading through the NA reprints and think that 7 was the best Doctor ever and Ace was ace.
farshnuke 1 year ago
brilliant :)
0doctor0who0 1 year ago
@PapercutTwilight Fast pacing can be bad too- the stolen earth episode of the new in particular was a hodgepodge of wtf- I just let go any attempt to understand what was going on and just laugh at the mess of it all.
You are right though the original series could be very slow- trial of a time lord for example although in that was experimental- but in the best ones theres no way it could be done differently without sacrificing so much.
Moffat's episodes seem to have struck a great balance though
Themoredeluded 1 year ago
@PapercutTwilight It gives the audience time to get barings on what is happening and how it works, slow paced doesn't mean bad. It just means more time for the audience of those era's get a sense of feel and atmosphere to the story, this seperates the story arcs in a strategic way and makes every story matter, which in turn gives meaning to the show.
Timelord6661 1 year ago
@PapercutTwilight yes but you have to take into account the fact that this was the 60's, 70's and 80's and the budget in those days given were pennies in comparison to the budget now. Longer stories means lets set construction, and more set construction costs money money that they didn't have, so naturally the pacing will be slow in order to get the best out of the story.
Timelord6661 1 year ago
@PapercutTwilight ......The Classic series was slow paced, not awfully paced, it matched the era it was in as it made it possible for first time viewers to catch up with the plot, something the David Tennant years seemed to fail at due to all the story arcs.
Timelord6661 1 year ago
@PapercutTwilight ......The Classic series was slow paced, not awfully paced, it matched the era it was in as it made it possible for first time viewers to catch up with the plot, something the David Tennant years seemed to fail at due to all the story arcs.
Timelord6661 1 year ago
@PapercutTwilight Doctor Who is aimed at whole families because.
1) The Monsters and the frights have scared the children.
2) The ethos and morality of the episodes e.g. the death associated with the series are aimed at younger teenagers.
3) The intelligence and plot lines of the show should be geared up for the average adult to understand.
Timelord6661 1 year ago
The 7th Doctor & Ace are my Doctor/Companion team. They are the ones I started with & love them forever. The final scene was awesome! This alternate ending is even better. Remembrance of the Daleks is my all time favorite episode. Two thumbs way up!
moviesrocks2 2 years ago
I thought Sylvester McCoy was great, as was Sophie Aldred. Don't blame them for being let down by an indifferent (at the time) BBC.
RoonJazz 2 years ago 2
Come off it. 'The Cartmel Masterplan' was a load of bollocks because he had terrible writers, no budget and one of the worst actors in the history of television as his leading man. Hardly Baker, Hinchcliffe and Holmes was it?
badfaith75 2 years ago
That sounds like how it is now if you ask me! No, I understand where you are comming from. But I must have said that Sylvester wasn't a bad Dr. He just wasn't given the Dark Parts he asked for. JNT was more concerned about getting it abroad & the writters were far & few no thanks to JNT putting everyone off with No freedom.
What may have seemed shit back then, is the Gold of 2day. They managed to get it in the end, but it was already too late by then. B&Whites r the best tho! :-)
therealKINDLE 2 years ago
Right the problem with you is you didn't give 'The Cartmel Masterplan' a chance, after Colin Baker left the show had very much lost steam, it was hard restoring the mystery to the Doctor's character, and I certainly don't think he did a bad job, McCoy was an ok Doctor and was not really that bad an actor, The writers had strong story themes and episodes that didn't lose steam, even Tom Bakers stories on occasion lost steam e.g. Creature from the Pit, Andrew Cartmel did a great job.
Timelord6661 2 years ago
They revitalised the show and restored it to it's former glory but brought it into the new decade (which could have been the 90's), the only reason the show was cancelled is because Michael Grade three years before put it in an almost impossible time slot to with stand. It was on at the same time as the most watched television show on ITV that had been around for decades, Doctor Who couldn't compete because of this. It was a shame they decided to axe it, it could have been so much better.
Timelord6661 2 years ago
look i love this scene, but couldn't disagree more. I love old doctor who, but Waters of Mars is one of the best episodes of the show ever. The fact the show has more fans NOW than before should also tell you something
Jspheonix 2 years ago
I see your opinion on the Matter, I have to disagree with you as I believe the classic series had a feel to it that the new series cannot match, even though by todays standards the special effects were naff, the classic series had a sense of intellegence in it's plots, as Robert Holmes stated it was geered plot wise to the intelligent 14 year old, while the new series is aimed at children, this is the reason
this is just my opinion but you are entitled to your own, lets just agree to disagree
Timelord6661 2 years ago
thanks
Timelord6661 2 years ago
Why oh WHY did they stop it at it's most Dark & Mysterious peek? There would have been some incredible stories. Instead it comes back in the 21st century & the Dr is horny & gets off with each & every one of his companions! Bring back Sylvester & ACE!
I'm sorry! But you have to admit that the Curse of Fenric is unbeatable, right? Fenris - The Wolf in Chains, norse mythology. Evil against evil - Pazuzu? The girl in Dragonfire? Lady Painfort's Chess set? How the Daleks new about the Hand of Omega?
therealKINDLE 2 years ago 17
I absolutley 100% agree with that
Timelord6661 2 years ago
Unfortunately the audience didn't give a shit about Lady Painfort's chess set or the Hand of Omega. The show was dead in the water then. 3 million viewers, when even Colin Baker's Doctor had got 8 million on one occasion? JNT didn't know what to do with it, McCoy was the worst actor in the Galaxy, the writers couldn't write and the BBC didn't want to give it any money. Personally, I was glad the show was put out of its misery.
badfaith75 2 years ago
@therealKINDLE You're right, I'm was born afeter the old series ended but I've seen every old doctor. Compared--the oldies are awesome!
ruthk9ramos 8 months ago
The final re-edit really should have had a flashback montage!
JMR83 2 years ago
Excellent find of the third doctor with a cup of tea! Hats off to you sir!
direweasal 2 years ago
thanks :D
Timelord6661 2 years ago
this is how the old series should of ended
great job
jamesmorrell91 2 years ago 2
thanks
Timelord6661 2 years ago
Great editing scene,that imo is how the final scene should have ended,great job!
Dunes 2 years ago
thanks
Timelord6661 2 years ago
Hey,one more thing..can ypu place the final quote of that final scene of the 7th Doctor on here? I want to create a sketch for it with the 7th Doctor and Ace at deviantart,and I can't quite make it all out from the audio.
I'd really appreciate it.
Dunes 2 years ago
sure I'd be glad to
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. come on Ace, we've got work to do"
Timelord6661 2 years ago
Okay I got it I printed it out. Thanks man.
Dunes 2 years ago