mine has over 265k miles and we've never replaced any engine or drivetrain parts besides spark plugs. the body will rust out underneath you before that engine dies i think.
slow? this car does 110 and comfortabely seats five and gets 32mpg and lasts forever and... well you get the idea. buick park aves got alot of balls for being boats.
Z@doglover3198 At the time I was using a Motorola Razr V3c and youtube couldn't convert the videos properly so I lost my original sound and was left with this noise.
I am considering a Park Avenue lately- one of the last of a certain kind of American car I quite like. These and DeVille's/DTS's are quite nice. I don't mind STS's or LeSabres or Lucernes or Bonneville's either. I am thinking the Park Ave is a good balance of affordability/economy and personality/style/luxury. I think one huge advantage in purchasing one used in comparison to say a Bonneville or G8 or Impala SS is that you can find so many Buicks with unbelievably low miles & non-abusive pasts.
Being a blindly and stubbornly loyal GM fan, I have to shake my head at you choosing Ford over GM, lol. However, I respect your sincere and solid opinions towards Ford.
I feel ya, lol. I do like the 350, the TH350 and TH400. I just didn't like their later model transmissions. Ford had headgasket eating 3.8's, and GM had intake gasket eating 3.1/3.4's.
So, all vehicles have had their problems, yet they both have had some bullet proof vehicles designed as well.
Drive happy, that's what I say :-) Good talking to ya, i'll add ya as my friend.
The problem is that you only have the naturally-aspirated 3800. If you're going to get one of those newer Park Avenues, you really need the supercharged 3800 that comes standard in the Ultra because 205 horsepower just isn't enough for a nearly 2 ton car.
Yeah, thinking about getting a Crown Vic instead. An NA V6 isn't enough for such a big car like this, I agree, and have always thought this. It can't hold overdrive pulling hills like a Crown Vic or Thunderbird, even though I think the 4.6 is low in torque to be a V8. It's still a tremendous jump from a V6 when it comes to lugging up a hill.
Skip the Vics and get an Ultra. Ford has had transmission problems since the 70s, and the Vic is no exception. Besides, the 240hp Ultra will put more power to the ground than the 250hp Crown Vic Police Interceptor, much less the 230hp civilian model. Personally, I'd keep your current car and look into a turbo. There's a few option for fitment, from a full kit, to options for placing the turbo under the rear of the car.
The 4R70W is a great transmission. Ford has built the best transmissions around. The pump in this one is whining at 60,000 miles. Not to mention the cheap interior. Half the power seat functions don't work, not to mention a few years back the piece that has the buttons just fell off the seat. Overall a good engine with good gas mileage, but it's not better than a Ford.
Umm, say what? Ford has had problems with AOD transmissions since day one. Trust me, I went through 3 transaxles in one year in a 90 Taurus, and my Father's 04 F-350 Powerstroke is already having problems shifting with less than 40k on it. If your pump is whining, I would have to believe that the previous owner didn't keep up on maintenance. It's extremely common with PAs, and with Crown Vics, that the usually elderly owners don't do maintenance beyond oil changes.
I changed fluid at 30k miles. It was whining at that point when she got it. The AOD is old, but yeah, it was the only bad tranny they put out, but it could still go for a long time. The 4R70W is where it's at.
You do realize I'm talking about all of the automatic-overdrive transmissions since the 70s, right? I'm talking RWD, FWD, even the 6spd auto in my Dad's truck. We're talking about several completely different, barely related transmissions. BTW, if you want to rebuild the trans in your PA, which will be pretty cheap to do, look at Intense Racing's site, and find the HD upgrade kit. It includes the upgraded parts from the SCed trans.
and the 4R70W took abuse like no other. But, it's cool. I prefer the reliability I've had from ALL fords. I think they are built very tough. That's all.
Yes, I understand from someone involved in maintenance for a municipality that when the big switchover in cruisers from Caprices to Crown Vics happened, a major aspect was having to count on about double the transmission replacements/overhauls. Otherwise the Crown Vics had many positive virtues in some ways comparable to the GM's.
Not many. I know more than a few LEOs through various racing sites, and all the ones that have been around long enough to have driven the old Caprices unanimously say that they want them back. Also, the local dept's use a mix of CVPI's and 9C1 Impalas, and the guys that have driven both, surprise, say they prefer the NA V6 Impalas. Obviously, the few that are lucky enough to get assigned one of the SCed 9C1s are even more in love with them.
Thanks for the interesting info. I'm a little surprised by a preference for a FWD V6 Impala over a Vic though I'm not disputing what you've heard. As a follow-up, any advice for me in considering a Park Avenue/ LeSabre/ Bonneville versus say a Continental/ Gran Marquis/ Town Car? Reliability/durability is a significant factor for me. I'm considering something used with 50K-75K miles and wishing to take it to 150K. Thoughts? I also like RWD Impalas and Mark VIII's but they are getting old now.
There are a couple things with the last gen of Bonneville and PA to watch out for: The 2000+ Bonneville was prone to sunroof and firewall leaks, and window regulators going out. The leaks are very hard to fix, so I would actually not get a 00+ Bonneville myself. The PA doesn't have any problems with those leaks.
Both the Bonnie and PA can develop a clunk in the steering, check for it on a test drive. The problem is easily fixed.
For both cars: The upper intake on the N/As should be replaced with a Dorman intake, and the S/C cars should have the lower intake manifold gaskets replaced with aluminum framed gaskets from GM. These are both relatively simple/cheap procedures, as long as you make sure to follow the directions found in techinfo at the PontiacBonnevilleClub site. The whole job should take about three hours at the most.
Soamsey said "any advice for me in considering a Park Avenue/ LeSabre/ Bonneville versus say a Continental/ Gran Marquis/ Town Car? Reliability/durability is a significant factor"...
You are crazy to go with a full size tank of a car with a V6 FWD set up over a powerful V8 RWD set up. If you get one of those with the 4.6 DOHC, you'll thank me later. Not that the 4.6 SOHC won't leave those V6's in the dust. Maybe you need to watch how slow the Park Avenues are in my video again...
I appreciate what you are saying, but this is a long-range highway commuter car, so performance is somewhat secondary to other issues like durability/ reliability, maintenance/ operating costs (incl. fuel), space, safety, comfort/ ride quality, and an appearance that is presentable but not too showy. I have had a FWD NA 3800 motored car and it was no scorcher, though adequate. I am hoping the SC version would be good enough performance-wise, though I am a little hesitant over maintenance. Cont'd
Lastly, RWD would be a personal preference but I am often in severe snow. I don't find I need 4WD or AWD (and the mileage penalty is great) but FWD is noticeably better in these conditions than RWD. A RWD Ford/Merc/Lincoln (or FWD Continental) is still on the table though, particularly if I can be convinced that durability is far better and thus would outweigh slight penalties in other areas such as in some cases mileage. I am hearing worrisome things about some of the air ride systems.
As far as mileage goes, the Park Avenue beats the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and especially the Town car, all hands down. The N/A Park Avenue can easily average 30-35mpg on the freeway, and the S/C PA Ultra can manage it too, if you're careful with your right foot.
Soamsey, I understand your situation better, now. In the snow, FWD is going to be better than RWD. As far as reliability, they all are reliable, but the quality of Ford is greater than the Buick. You wouldn't believe how much stuff on the interior of this car has fallen off/quit working. A 2000 model Park Avenue with 60k miles. Tranny pump whining and the interior is cheap.
It's a fun car, good riding car, great on gas mileage. But so are other cars with less problems.
iceguy, a supercharged Park Avenue will out-accelerate a Crown Vic, even a Police Interceptor. That's not an opinion, it's fact, measured on the strip. In spite of the CVPI making 10 more horsepower at the crank, it actually puts out less power to the wheels, and it weighs more than the Park Avenue.
Frankly, when you're talking about cars of this relatively middling power level, the FWD/RWD debate makes very little difference.
Everything suffers for MPG in the city. That's one of the reasons that the Impala is liked for in-city patrols. It gets better city mileage than the CVPI, and it blows it away for idling efficiency. Most city patrols don't really need the abuse-resistance that is designed into the CVPI, just good mechanical reliability.
BTW, my PAU has been to a couple autocross events, and it doesn't do badly for a full size car. It's also a blast down in the hills of southeast Ohio.
2000 Buick Park Ave Gets 19/30 with the N/A 3.8. So dont say you get fucking 34mpg stop spreading that bull shit American Cars Suck, i dont hate em but they do. 34mpg hahahahaha you wish
@iceguy2003 if your not runing low 13's don't talk. civic or not i'm still roasting yours. Like I said I DON'T HATE AMERICAN CARS, but they suck. All bull shit aside, Nice Parkave by the way
@Jmoney9105 If you go by EPA mileage figures, you're an idiot. The EPA doesn't even use the same testing cycles for mileage anymore that they did back then, because they were FLAWED. Real-world, an N/A Park Avenue can easily make 35mpg on the freeway if you're gentle on the gas. Hell, my 98 Ultra made 30+ before I started modding it. Don't talk shit about other people's cars unless you know first-hand what you're talking about.
@daltonultra dont go by EPA figures hahahah, well i guess bmw m3 get 45mpg and a corolla get 70mpg
epa dont just chuck out numbers they go by real world driving which u and i commit to everyday to get to and from our 9-5. i dont know what world u live in, but i live in a world of facts and science. like i said in my last comments " i dont hate american cars but they suck" and i said " nice parkave by the way" i didn;t talk shit. parkaves are very nice roomy and comfortable rides
@Jmoney9105 Again, the EPA CHANGED their testing a few years back because the results weren't accurately reflecting real-world mileage.
And MY figures are from MY car, on which I kept track of MY mileage. On a run from Ohio to Connecticut, I averaged 32mpg. That's not from the mileage readout, that's from odometer reading divided by gallons consumed. That's not even flat country, the route was I-80, I-81, I-84.
Like I said, EPA figures are pretty much worthless in the real world.
hey at least it's not like my ranger that has a motor you cant do much with at all the 3800 engine has ALOT of hidden go fast you just have to have the money and know where to find it lol these motors are used everywhere even the camaro had it as an option there's alot of aftermarket parts for this engine that will fit alomost every car that has this engine trans combo
Not actually slow, per se, just not sports-car fast. If you wanna go faster, though, there's turbo kits available for the Grand Prix that will fit perfectly with only minor adjustments...heck, I'm doing 14.3@95 with mild mods on the supercharged motor. There's plenty more fast to be had.
mine has over 265k miles and we've never replaced any engine or drivetrain parts besides spark plugs. the body will rust out underneath you before that engine dies i think.
thedude037 2 weeks ago
slow? this car does 110 and comfortabely seats five and gets 32mpg and lasts forever and... well you get the idea. buick park aves got alot of balls for being boats.
thedude037 2 weeks ago
Slow??? Try driving my 91 caprice now that's slow
lightningbuster 5 months ago
What the hell was them weird sounds???
doglover3198 1 year ago
Z@doglover3198 At the time I was using a Motorola Razr V3c and youtube couldn't convert the videos properly so I lost my original sound and was left with this noise.
iceguy2003 1 year ago
I am considering a Park Avenue lately- one of the last of a certain kind of American car I quite like. These and DeVille's/DTS's are quite nice. I don't mind STS's or LeSabres or Lucernes or Bonneville's either. I am thinking the Park Ave is a good balance of affordability/economy and personality/style/luxury. I think one huge advantage in purchasing one used in comparison to say a Bonneville or G8 or Impala SS is that you can find so many Buicks with unbelievably low miles & non-abusive pasts.
Soamsey 1 year ago
Being a blindly and stubbornly loyal GM fan, I have to shake my head at you choosing Ford over GM, lol. However, I respect your sincere and solid opinions towards Ford.
Halogen360 2 years ago
I feel ya, lol. I do like the 350, the TH350 and TH400. I just didn't like their later model transmissions. Ford had headgasket eating 3.8's, and GM had intake gasket eating 3.1/3.4's.
So, all vehicles have had their problems, yet they both have had some bullet proof vehicles designed as well.
Drive happy, that's what I say :-) Good talking to ya, i'll add ya as my friend.
iceguy2003 2 years ago
The problem is that you only have the naturally-aspirated 3800. If you're going to get one of those newer Park Avenues, you really need the supercharged 3800 that comes standard in the Ultra because 205 horsepower just isn't enough for a nearly 2 ton car.
Halogen360 2 years ago
Yeah, thinking about getting a Crown Vic instead. An NA V6 isn't enough for such a big car like this, I agree, and have always thought this. It can't hold overdrive pulling hills like a Crown Vic or Thunderbird, even though I think the 4.6 is low in torque to be a V8. It's still a tremendous jump from a V6 when it comes to lugging up a hill.
iceguy2003 2 years ago
Skip the Vics and get an Ultra. Ford has had transmission problems since the 70s, and the Vic is no exception. Besides, the 240hp Ultra will put more power to the ground than the 250hp Crown Vic Police Interceptor, much less the 230hp civilian model. Personally, I'd keep your current car and look into a turbo. There's a few option for fitment, from a full kit, to options for placing the turbo under the rear of the car.
daltonultra 2 years ago
The 4R70W is a great transmission. Ford has built the best transmissions around. The pump in this one is whining at 60,000 miles. Not to mention the cheap interior. Half the power seat functions don't work, not to mention a few years back the piece that has the buttons just fell off the seat. Overall a good engine with good gas mileage, but it's not better than a Ford.
iceguy2003 2 years ago
Umm, say what? Ford has had problems with AOD transmissions since day one. Trust me, I went through 3 transaxles in one year in a 90 Taurus, and my Father's 04 F-350 Powerstroke is already having problems shifting with less than 40k on it. If your pump is whining, I would have to believe that the previous owner didn't keep up on maintenance. It's extremely common with PAs, and with Crown Vics, that the usually elderly owners don't do maintenance beyond oil changes.
daltonultra 2 years ago
I changed fluid at 30k miles. It was whining at that point when she got it. The AOD is old, but yeah, it was the only bad tranny they put out, but it could still go for a long time. The 4R70W is where it's at.
iceguy2003 2 years ago
You do realize I'm talking about all of the automatic-overdrive transmissions since the 70s, right? I'm talking RWD, FWD, even the 6spd auto in my Dad's truck. We're talking about several completely different, barely related transmissions. BTW, if you want to rebuild the trans in your PA, which will be pretty cheap to do, look at Intense Racing's site, and find the HD upgrade kit. It includes the upgraded parts from the SCed trans.
daltonultra 2 years ago
I've just had bad luck with GM products, and the bail out money they took which Ford turned down..
I'm all for Ford now. They seem to be for the people. And I know that Ford is known for having good trannies. I had a Thunderbird 4.6 HO and the 4R
iceguy2003 2 years ago
and the 4R70W took abuse like no other. But, it's cool. I prefer the reliability I've had from ALL fords. I think they are built very tough. That's all.
iceguy2003 2 years ago
Yes, I understand from someone involved in maintenance for a municipality that when the big switchover in cruisers from Caprices to Crown Vics happened, a major aspect was having to count on about double the transmission replacements/overhauls. Otherwise the Crown Vics had many positive virtues in some ways comparable to the GM's.
Soamsey 1 year ago
Not many. I know more than a few LEOs through various racing sites, and all the ones that have been around long enough to have driven the old Caprices unanimously say that they want them back. Also, the local dept's use a mix of CVPI's and 9C1 Impalas, and the guys that have driven both, surprise, say they prefer the NA V6 Impalas. Obviously, the few that are lucky enough to get assigned one of the SCed 9C1s are even more in love with them.
daltonultra 1 year ago
Thanks for the interesting info. I'm a little surprised by a preference for a FWD V6 Impala over a Vic though I'm not disputing what you've heard. As a follow-up, any advice for me in considering a Park Avenue/ LeSabre/ Bonneville versus say a Continental/ Gran Marquis/ Town Car? Reliability/durability is a significant factor for me. I'm considering something used with 50K-75K miles and wishing to take it to 150K. Thoughts? I also like RWD Impalas and Mark VIII's but they are getting old now.
Soamsey 1 year ago
There are a couple things with the last gen of Bonneville and PA to watch out for: The 2000+ Bonneville was prone to sunroof and firewall leaks, and window regulators going out. The leaks are very hard to fix, so I would actually not get a 00+ Bonneville myself. The PA doesn't have any problems with those leaks.
Both the Bonnie and PA can develop a clunk in the steering, check for it on a test drive. The problem is easily fixed.
continued>
daltonultra 1 year ago
For both cars: The upper intake on the N/As should be replaced with a Dorman intake, and the S/C cars should have the lower intake manifold gaskets replaced with aluminum framed gaskets from GM. These are both relatively simple/cheap procedures, as long as you make sure to follow the directions found in techinfo at the PontiacBonnevilleClub site. The whole job should take about three hours at the most.
daltonultra 1 year ago
Soamsey said "any advice for me in considering a Park Avenue/ LeSabre/ Bonneville versus say a Continental/ Gran Marquis/ Town Car? Reliability/durability is a significant factor"...
You are crazy to go with a full size tank of a car with a V6 FWD set up over a powerful V8 RWD set up. If you get one of those with the 4.6 DOHC, you'll thank me later. Not that the 4.6 SOHC won't leave those V6's in the dust. Maybe you need to watch how slow the Park Avenues are in my video again...
iceguy2003 1 year ago
I appreciate what you are saying, but this is a long-range highway commuter car, so performance is somewhat secondary to other issues like durability/ reliability, maintenance/ operating costs (incl. fuel), space, safety, comfort/ ride quality, and an appearance that is presentable but not too showy. I have had a FWD NA 3800 motored car and it was no scorcher, though adequate. I am hoping the SC version would be good enough performance-wise, though I am a little hesitant over maintenance. Cont'd
Soamsey 1 year ago
Lastly, RWD would be a personal preference but I am often in severe snow. I don't find I need 4WD or AWD (and the mileage penalty is great) but FWD is noticeably better in these conditions than RWD. A RWD Ford/Merc/Lincoln (or FWD Continental) is still on the table though, particularly if I can be convinced that durability is far better and thus would outweigh slight penalties in other areas such as in some cases mileage. I am hearing worrisome things about some of the air ride systems.
Soamsey 1 year ago
As far as mileage goes, the Park Avenue beats the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and especially the Town car, all hands down. The N/A Park Avenue can easily average 30-35mpg on the freeway, and the S/C PA Ultra can manage it too, if you're careful with your right foot.
daltonultra 1 year ago
Soamsey, I understand your situation better, now. In the snow, FWD is going to be better than RWD. As far as reliability, they all are reliable, but the quality of Ford is greater than the Buick. You wouldn't believe how much stuff on the interior of this car has fallen off/quit working. A 2000 model Park Avenue with 60k miles. Tranny pump whining and the interior is cheap.
It's a fun car, good riding car, great on gas mileage. But so are other cars with less problems.
iceguy2003 1 year ago
iceguy, a supercharged Park Avenue will out-accelerate a Crown Vic, even a Police Interceptor. That's not an opinion, it's fact, measured on the strip. In spite of the CVPI making 10 more horsepower at the crank, it actually puts out less power to the wheels, and it weighs more than the Park Avenue.
Frankly, when you're talking about cars of this relatively middling power level, the FWD/RWD debate makes very little difference.
daltonultra 1 year ago
I agree the Park Avenue gets excellent mileage. I usually average 32-33mpg highway... but in the city, its another story. Usually around 20-22mpg.
I just prefer the driving characteristics of a V8 RWD vs a V6 FWD. That's all I'm saying.
iceguy2003 1 year ago
Everything suffers for MPG in the city. That's one of the reasons that the Impala is liked for in-city patrols. It gets better city mileage than the CVPI, and it blows it away for idling efficiency. Most city patrols don't really need the abuse-resistance that is designed into the CVPI, just good mechanical reliability.
BTW, my PAU has been to a couple autocross events, and it doesn't do badly for a full size car. It's also a blast down in the hills of southeast Ohio.
daltonultra 1 year ago
@iceguy2003 why the fuck would you lie
2000 Buick Park Ave Gets 19/30 with the N/A 3.8. So dont say you get fucking 34mpg stop spreading that bull shit American Cars Suck, i dont hate em but they do. 34mpg hahahahaha you wish
Jmoney9105 1 year ago
@Jmoney9105 I'm glad you don't like American cars. That's another Civic I get to toast.
iceguy2003 1 year ago
@iceguy2003 if your not runing low 13's don't talk. civic or not i'm still roasting yours. Like I said I DON'T HATE AMERICAN CARS, but they suck. All bull shit aside, Nice Parkave by the way
Jmoney9105 1 year ago
@Jmoney9105 If you go by EPA mileage figures, you're an idiot. The EPA doesn't even use the same testing cycles for mileage anymore that they did back then, because they were FLAWED. Real-world, an N/A Park Avenue can easily make 35mpg on the freeway if you're gentle on the gas. Hell, my 98 Ultra made 30+ before I started modding it. Don't talk shit about other people's cars unless you know first-hand what you're talking about.
daltonultra 1 year ago
@daltonultra dont go by EPA figures hahahah, well i guess bmw m3 get 45mpg and a corolla get 70mpg
epa dont just chuck out numbers they go by real world driving which u and i commit to everyday to get to and from our 9-5. i dont know what world u live in, but i live in a world of facts and science. like i said in my last comments " i dont hate american cars but they suck" and i said " nice parkave by the way" i didn;t talk shit. parkaves are very nice roomy and comfortable rides
Jmoney9105 1 year ago
@Jmoney9105 Again, the EPA CHANGED their testing a few years back because the results weren't accurately reflecting real-world mileage.
And MY figures are from MY car, on which I kept track of MY mileage. On a run from Ohio to Connecticut, I averaged 32mpg. That's not from the mileage readout, that's from odometer reading divided by gallons consumed. That's not even flat country, the route was I-80, I-81, I-84.
Like I said, EPA figures are pretty much worthless in the real world.
daltonultra 1 year ago
@daltonultra aight
Jmoney9105 1 year ago
hey at least it's not like my ranger that has a motor you cant do much with at all the 3800 engine has ALOT of hidden go fast you just have to have the money and know where to find it lol these motors are used everywhere even the camaro had it as an option there's alot of aftermarket parts for this engine that will fit alomost every car that has this engine trans combo
nicoli669 2 years ago
do you have like a ton of bricks in the back lol
doug1bite 3 years ago
Well, it weighs more than two tons of bricks already.
iceguy2003 3 years ago
Not actually slow, per se, just not sports-car fast. If you wanna go faster, though, there's turbo kits available for the Grand Prix that will fit perfectly with only minor adjustments...heck, I'm doing 14.3@95 with mild mods on the supercharged motor. There's plenty more fast to be had.
daltonultra 3 years ago