Abortion: Personhood of the Unborn, Your Comments Answered

[charadester]

If personhood begins at conception, why is the male, one of the two required individuals for the creation of that person not held responsible for the support of the child at conception? Why do antiabortion groups not pursue this issue that could bring financial support to an expectant mother at a crucial time for both mother and child? If children are so important, why do we overlook the second parent while holding the first one totally responsible for the pregnancy?

[m0dernangel]

Real simple, if you don't want an abortion, don't get one. I know, fetuses have those wise yet innocent lttle faces, and those precious little fingers and toes! But you know one sure-fire way to tell a fetus isn't a baby yet? When it's aborted! Persons are not aborted; aborted fetuses are not persons. If prolifers would finally admit this, we could get to the honest argument here, which is that fundie zealots hate everyone who doesn't subscribe to their Dominionist-theofascist wet dreams.

[PALOMITA694]

Dont pretend to confuse survival dependency and life support dependency.

Survival dependency is needed by any human not capable of taking care of him/herself. example: handicapped person, and infant, a baby or a child.

Life support dependency is when a human needs some sort of aid to stay alive They depend on the woman for nutrients and oxygen example: a fetus unable to live outside the womb.

[invalid007]

Instead of finding new methods of teaching people to make sound decisions and do what's right, we tend to take the easy way out and strip one another of our own liberties. We punish till the bitter end, yet give no real help in the end. Stop attacking the symptoms and address the problem. Vote NO to Amendment 62 and salvage the liberties we have left by teaching others. If they don't agree, they don't have to. It's life.

[brian77ism]

Unfortunately, abortion is big big business -money, profit!

That's why there is so much anti-child, anti-woman propaganda.

PR for the industry.

[HowardSternn]

Abortion saves lives

[Mishelved]

Beautifully done, I'm sharing this on my facebook. Thank you.

[ProLife7777777]

The Personhood of the Unborn is a dead issue, It has been PROVEN by SCIENCE that an unborn child is alive, and is a person. This may be the only thing Science and Faith argree on, but it is the most important.

[wood9670]

@ProLife7777777, science demonstrates human life begins at conception.

Science cannot demonstrate personhood. That is beyond its field.

Proof of personhood rest on philosophical arguments.

[HerAwesomenessXO]

Excellent video.

[superstarr74]

I'm sorry, but unborn babies look disgusting. I could look at it and call it a blob of cells.

But, seriously, does it really matter if a woman gets an abortion or not? It doesn't affect YOU if some lady in the north pole gets an abortion, does it? So why bother? People die every day. Get over it. That's my opinion on all of this.

[hpufo]

So if someone murders you nobody should care? They shouldn't be trailed or anything after all it has nothing to do with anybody else. In a society people cannot survive only thinking about themselves. I think you are a very stupid person, and you have a very stupid way of thinking. I personally hope you do not pro create.

[superstarr74]

Abortion does not equal murder, in my opinion. To me, a fetus is not a person with their own rights yet. Until that baby is born, then it is the mother's decision.

If I get murdered, then I get murdered. Hunting down the killer won't bring me back to life.

Thanks for the insult.

[hpufo]

So unborn babies definitely needs rights then! Lets start with the most humane one first, and that is the right to live!

People put murders in jail to pay for their crime, and to prevent them from doing it again.

[superstarr74]

I know why they put murderers in jail.

And that's fine that you think unborn babies should have rights. I am pro-choice, but that's my opinion. That's all I was trying to say before. I can look at a fetus and say that it is a blob of cells. I can say that abortion is okay. People die daily, and what someone else does with their own life doesn't affect my life so it doesn't bother me. I'm not selfish or stupid, I'm just trying not to control everyone's life for them.

[CRTV1982]

@superstarr74 No, a fetus is not a blob of cells, you are thinking of an embryo.

[superstarr74]

To wrap it up, I'm saying that what people want to do with their lives is their decision, and not mine.

[hpufo]

I feel the same way. Any person can kill themselves for all I care, but you do not have the right to take another persons life! That is what abortion is, ending the life of an unborn child.

[ProLife7777777]

Unless it comes to murder.

If I should decide to rape a young girl and than say 'it was my choice to do that with my life' would that stand? No of course it wouldnt. A person is a person, no matter its size or location, even if that location happens to be in his/her mothers womb.

[susanslayer]

:Copy and paste is you think you agree:

I think abortion is CRUEL!!! The baby burns in the mother's stomach! I dont agree with abortion at all !being torn apart is the worst ever! God made human and earth for life not destruction for that matter! WAKE UP ABORTION NEEDS TO STOP!

[barkomulch]

Keep up your ministry! Praise God for your wisdom and your willingness to step forward and speak!

[Novjunulo]

Where's the rest

[KatyKane]

If he's (she) not a baby, then you're not pregnant!. Nobody has the right to stop a beating heart. Women's rights stop where babies' rights begin. - Or at least that's how it should be. What about the rights of our future?

[maryshybossy]

O bama is the

B iggest

A ssassin in the

M emory of

A merica

[hpufo]

Lets not be stupid here. Abortion have been legal far longer than Obama's administration so how is he the biggest Assassin in history?

[JoeyMarvelous07]

gotsoda: Faith is just a code word for irrational thinking and intellectual laziness.

[JoeyMarvelous07]

Lippazon is a liar. Brain waves at six weeks is impossible as the brain has scarcely begun to form at that point, and won't even near completion until the mid 2nd trimester.

[fool1shmortal]

Is it a monkey? No. Anyone who believes in macroevolution wouldn't believe it changes species at birth.  It is human. It looks different. We're still developing till about age 30. Killing those who look different&are inconvenient is uncomfortable, so euphenisms and pseudo-science--even lying about the scientific integrity of the opposition--are used to ease the conscience, just a bit, but it's what some Nazis&Klan did. The latter imagined themselves Christian; now it's we're scientific.

[JoeyMarvelous07]

A couple comments, first your "DNA argument" is a valid one re: "personhood" but, you're wrong about sex being set at conception (if it were then men would not have nipples), You waste time discussing the heart when the brain is much more relevant (this is why 1st tri. abortions are ok by me, but no later) and you failed to prove that a soul exists to EVER enter a person.

[mileylover111333555]

again nice vid i have been feeling low because my friends mom is or had twins the other day at 7 months old. one of them was starving the other. so they are living out of the womb and are not doing so well....

[cheezitrule]

but they are alive at least. they still have a chance. if she'd had an abortion they'd have had no chance whatsoever

[00Benjy00]

funny video lets chat

looking for friends u8

[MARLONBART]

Keep up your great work. Victory will be ours. The pro life movement will be victorious and the killing will end!

[charlamain2209]

I am trying something new. i think that rather then shouting and saying over and over that it is wrong we should actually discuss life as you have done. so I am starting what i call the pro life challenge. i am asking for video responses and comments about what life means to you or what you love about life. I feel that this will be helpful on many levels. to Women who are considering abortion as well as someone who may be thinking about taking their life.

[Gidgitel]

you know the heartbeat is a bad way to judge life. If someone goes into cardiac arrest we shouldn't try to save them?

[navet85]

I lost my little girl at five months( miscarriage and she was my fourth child will always be my fourth child. I cannot see how a mother could not feel love for a baby by carrying it. its been a year and i still grieve for her. I hope you have saved a life from your video. motherhood is a gift.

[WhereEaglesDareUK]

tamesidecitizen.blogspot

[lesbianSeagal]

if i could have seen what my 8 week old baby looked like i would have never thought of aborting them. this baby i am expecting i will make sure i take care of it, and i will find a caring home and family for it. thousands of coulpes cant have children. i would love to help them out.

[lesbianSeagal]

I aborted my baby at 8 weeks. it was only last year in november, i was 14 at the time. recently i have discovered that i could may well be pregnant again. so i researched abortion and what really happens, and i have to say i am completly disgusted at my self for even going through with the first one. after watching some of these videos. how anyone could go through with that and knowing what happens i really dont know how you do it. i havnt forgiven myself yet for what i have done.

[WhereEaglesDareUK]

You are a disgrace

[crapland]

All people do evil things, there is nothing special about doing something wrong. It is the people who realise their wrong, repent and help others who are special. You are a wonderful person, I wish there were more in the world like you :)

[seacrestedrome]

isn't it sad that babies aren't even safe in their mothers womb?

[Mommy2Jerzee]

THANK YOU!! Everything i have ever tried to tell people you said in this film! God Bless You and our cause!!

[xoxmissrissxox]

yes there are many diffrent religions many diffrent beliefs.....but we all share one god and also the gift of life....a blob of cells or what ever u ppl call this precious gift is still a baby....maybey if we practiced safe sex instead of just gettin pregnant there would be no such thing as abortion...so all u pro choice ppl learn how to make ur decsions wiser cause ur thoughts on abortion is a sad excuse...cause yes it is a sin in every religion...no matter what religion u practice!!

[casperqqq]

And if you don't practice a religion - it is just immoral to the human race.

[DeanClark68]

Only pro-lifers respect life not planned parenthood or pro-choicers.

[mouselover15]

i'm sorry. i dont believe these r babies.

[Shannon2993]

oh....well what do they look like??? just 'blobs of cells'?

[Brian3219]

You have some good points, but the thing is that a lot of your beliefs are based on religion and since this is a very political issue then you should take all of your religions beliefs out of the equation. I know that you have some values that you cannot just forget about. Also stem cell research and the amazing things that it can do raise a question:Does the life of a 7 year old little girl with a life threatening disease matter just as much as a few day old embryo?

[Amonologues]

That's like saying that the life of a 12 year old is worth more than the life of a 7 year old. so if the liver, heart, etc.. of my 12 year old are failing - I should be able to kill my 7 year old to harvest those organs?? What is embryo and fetus - they are only words. What if they were called unborn babies??

[Brian3219]

Search for "sam harris stem cell research"

[Amonologues]

Sten cell research is still theoretical - and in that same vein they have done wondrous things that are supposed imitate what stem cells are purported to do using only skin cells.

[gothnsincity]

I'm pro choice but I don't belive in abortion and would never have an abortion myself. I feel that until that baby can physically support itself and no longer is dependent of my body, it is my choice on what to do with it. It is at that point a parasite on my body, even if it is a baby.

[lippazon19]

It is either completely acceptable to have an abortion your totally wrong. It is either a human being or a blob of cells. If it is a blob of cells than you should have no objection to abortion. If it is a human being than it is murder. Just like slavery there can be no middle ground.

[actrol]

ur pissed

[jsnukem]

Great video Amanda! If prochoicers would finally agree(read: admit)this is a baby, an individual life, then maybe we can finally get to the honest argument here, which is whether or not to support the cruel murder of a defenseless baby human. Somewhere along the way, people convinced themselves that lifestyle is more important than life itself. Respect life and respect yourselves.

[devourerofbabies]

Abortions save lives!

[babygirl2080]

how does murder save lives?

[devourerofbabies]

a) abortion is not murder

b) it lowers the crime rate.

[babygirl2080]

a)stopping a heart from beating is murder and can not be classified as anything else

b)look up statistics, crime rate has nothing to do with abortion, more crimes are caused trying to stop it than there are trying to do whatever you think it does. obviously you base your information on newspapers and television, which only show crime that people want to hear about and they insist crimes are increasing when in actuality, the crime rate has been decreasing steadily for about 20 years

[devourerofbabies]

a) if you KILL KILL KILL a fetus before it has a brain developed enough to begin thinking, you're not snuffing out an awareness, you're snuffing out a potential human being, heart and cute little well formed fingers or no.

B) I can make a very good case for abortion lowering crime, but it's beyond the scope of a youtube message board discussion.

[jsnukem]

a. so anything after 6 wks (the earliest we are capable of measuring brain waves) is murder? what would pass your litmus test on self 'awareness?'

b. although new studies show an crime increase associated with abortion, even if your claim was true, is that a justifiable reason to kill an innocent 'fetus' (latin for 'offspring')?

whatever happened to "innocent before proven guilty?"

[devourerofbabies]

"a. so anything after 6 wks (the earliest we are capable of measuring brain waves"

That is untrue. I'm willing to bet you got that off of a pro-life or Christian website.

"b. although new studies show an crime increase associated with abortion,"

Really? What studies? Where are they? Done by whom?

[Starlitshores]

The studies can be found in fetal development text books such as a child is born or any human biology text book that focuses on fetal development. Have you read any of these books?

[jsnukem]

Who's talking about religion here?

Let me just ask you then, when is a baby a baby? Wikipedia states that brain waves can be measured at 54 days, and every other medical source says either 6 or 7 weeks. Is that week a big difference for you? If so, is it then a baby?

And the study was performed by Yale Law.

Religion has little to do with the wrongness of abortion. Next we're gonna get into the excuse of relativism; "there is no right or wrong" huh?

[lippazon19]

I challenge you to go to your local liberary and check out an embrology text book. Then you will see that it is true that brain waves can be measured at 6wks. Would you believe an unbiased medical text book.

[devourerofbabies]

Just admit that you object to abortion on purely religious grounds. That's what it's all about. Don't pretend there's any real ethics behind it.

[Starlitshores]

Devourer, I got my information from the VERY well known fetal development book by Lennard Neilson--A Child is Born--all my facts come from FETAL DEVELOPMENT TEXT BOOKS not websites. Buy a fetal/ pregnancy book or rent one from the library. Do some research beyong your own ideas or "biased" websites (pro-choice or pro-life).

[devourerofbabies]

Well, he probably got that information from that study done in Japan back in the sixties. Synapses haven't formed by six weeks, so it's not possible for them to have anything like thought, even if there is any electrical activity in their brains, which I don't know how you'd measure anyway.

[devourerofbabies]

Okay, a little quick checking reveals that that book was published in 1965. How much information does it actually even have in it? Anyways, it's not an authoritative text on modern embryonic neurology.

[Starlitshores]

Devourer, the first edition was published in 1965, since then different edited editions have appeared. Mine was published and edited in 2000. This is not an arguemnt about synapses this is an srguement about an unborn child. What text are you using??

[lippazon19]

Were did you get your data on how it lowers the crime rate. Because all the data I have seen shows that since abortion was legalized domestic abuse has gone up. We you devalue life you devalue life though out society.

[devourerofbabies]

It's easy to figue out the world when you already know everything. Must be nice.

[cheezitrule]

my data proves your point as well

[cutebakerygirl]

If you noticed most her facts are about the late part of the first trimester. And the whole heartbeat before she knows can ring false. My sister had an ultrasound when she first found out that she was pregnant with my niece. There was no heartbeat. My niece was still tissue,now she's five yrs.

[Starlitshores]

It is true that the ultrasound may not have been able to pick up on the heart beat VERY early in pregnancy though if you go to the U.S. embryology site you can see the heart beating at 7 weeks. Before this the heart may be too small but if you research fetal development books you will find that the heart begins to beat 18-24 days after conception.

[TheTruePsycho]

The honest truth is women don't want a baby after a night of drinking and fucking while their away from high school on a weekend, trip or vacation. Its even worse for men who tell women to abort because not only do they brainwash them theyre also just as responsible for the creation of the baby as the mother.

[chynatwn83]

I totally agree with you. My cousin got pregnant and was unsure of who the father was and she was considering abortion. I even offered to adopt her baby girl if she was afraid she wouldnt be able to support or provide for her. I talked to my cousin until there were no longer any words. She had her mind set on aborting her beautiful child. Well luckily for the babies sake and mine she decided to go through with the pregnany and now she has a very beautiful baby girl that i myself thank god for.

[Starlitshores]

Thank you so much for your inspiring message!

[inlogicwetrust]

Hi Starlitshores. It just occured to me while watching this video that if we are to grant moral status to the fetus, and hence, not abort due to it being biologically human, then it seems we must also grant moral status to things like human cancer cultures, as they are also biologically human, or else we will not remain consistent. This seems counter-intuitive to me, and I would just like to get your thoughts. Thank you.

[Starlitshores]

A cancer culture is not a being separete from the person it "resides" in. It does not have it's own DNA. It is not it's own human being. A fetus is MUCH different than cancer! A fetus is s human distinct from the mother. A cancer culture is a abnormal part of the man or women, not a distinct human.

[inlogicwetrust]

You haven't quite grasped it, and perhaps I am to blame for using the word 'biologically' instead of 'genetically'. A human cancer-cell culture, is genetically human (as genetically human as a fully devloped homo sapien). So, if you wish to grant moral status to the fetus (pre-embryo, embryo, zygote etc), then you will need to grant it to the human cancer-cell culture. As for DNA, it isn't clear to me that there is anything morally significant about having unique DNA.

[Shoe1988]

You make the point very well that it is simply open to opinion as to when life should be considered to begin. To me, this shows how life doesn't have a defined beginning, but instead is a process of becoming more and more alive from nothing. This is why I feel that the earlier an abortion is carried out, the more ethical. I agree that it is a very undesirable last resort, but unfortunately it can be very necesarry for the sake of the quality of already existing human life.

[michaeljmskinner]

That doesn't mean you should go and kill yourself. You have dreams seperate of her don't you? I'm sorry about what you go through every day, but that doesn't mean you don't have worth. You can make a difference as much as she can. Your worth is independent of her, and you can choose what you want to do. Your being here didn't ruin her life. She chose to wallow in whatever hatred she had. That ruined her life. You did not. We are all responsible for our own happiness.

[michaeljmskinner]

Clueless, the right to choose could be argued just as the right to have slaves was. You're insinuating legality. She nor I are talking about religion. We are talking about science fact. We are arguing the Continuity of life. The gyst of it is (as I said on another posting) "what if you found out your mom wanted to abort you." That's an extremely harsh reality, but it has happened. A girl lost her arm because of a botched abortion(she's alive)

[mst3k4evur]

"I love babies I love being pregnant the spirit of my child came to me long before her body started growing in mine."

And yet you feel it should be legal to dissmember and incinerate the baby because it requires another human being to survive? How does needing the mothers nutrients to survive make it less human? At what point would you say it is human, yet five minutes before hand it was a parasite, without the rights we give a condemned murderer?

[mst3k4evur]

"Because you are taking away women's right to choose. Women have been controlled by the church and state for far to long already."

Our problem with abortion is not women's rights but the rights of the unborn, half of whom are women actually. As for the church, I am an atheist.

[Starlitshores]

So clueless, as I asked in my mother movie..when does life begin in your eyes?

[michaeljmskinner]

Amanda, you are right. This has to do everything with fact and science. My mother underwent surgery in utero to save me before I was viable. I had a twin sister, and my mother life as well as my sister's was in danger. I'm greatful for their sacrifice, but I am as much a person and human as I was then, as I am now

[Starlitshores]

Clueless, I don't know why you are so angry...I never said I supporting killing children in Iraq. To me, all life YES even Muslim, Jew, Atheist, ANY life is precious and should be respected. Why by showing the life of children in the womb am I saying those Iraqi babies aren't worthy? They were worthy now as they were in the womb. To me abortion is not a political issue it is a human rights issue. I applaud you for standing up for children. Why do you condemn me?

[tuffyjon]

Great Video Good Arguement Thanks for posting !

[witchlemure]

And btw,(and I know that this is not very profesional in light of my education) fetuses look absolutely disgusting and while I was waiting for my abortion appointment I loved looking at fetus pics and counting down the days.Hope you'll inspire some other women that way!

[witchlemure]

I have had an abortion(which I am btw VERY happy about)and I have a post-secondary ed in the medical field.Maybe your video should include suchs facts as that abortion is about 10 times safer than birth,and that less than 1%of post-abortive women will ever suffer abortion related psychological trauma?That's right!You don't care about facts but about your wants only.GO PRO-LI(F)E!!!

[angelshoulders]

In that case my guess is that instead of celebrating your baby's birthday, you celebrate the baby's abortion or death date? Seems as though you really want to encourage others to have such a happy time.Maybe you could have a abortion day sleepover,with a pony & balloons!! Do you ever wonder if your baby looked like you? Had the same interests,would love to sing,dance,laugh & love?

[ProLife7777777]

Lets all argree with the Pro-Choice arguement that life dosn't start untill so-called 'viability' - since a person cant get a job and support themselves until they are at least 14 or 15, lets make it 'choice' to kill everyone under that age? Or shall we make it legal to kill everyone who lives with there parents because they are not supporting themelves?

[Epyon42]

The entire second half is exactly what I scoffed about in your previous videos. This is an emotional plea, it is not an argument. "Look at this cute thing, why do you hate cute things?" is not an argument. Cute babies are starving in Africa, why don't you send 100% of your income to them? Baby chicks are cute, how can you eat that chicken nugget? Sorry for the flood of comments, you asked me to critique this :)

[angelshoulders]

Human Embryologists,the scientists who study human embryonic development prior to fertilization,through the first eight week,Post Fertilization,&beyond,the specialists-experts in the field,have told us for more than 100 years ago that a new human being's life begins at fertilization-in sexual reproduction,&in twinning.

Roe v Wade and Doe v Bolton,&other abortion promoting cases are based on scientific ignorance,erring on the side of death, rather than on the side of life.

[Epyon42]

The whole thing about babies being dependent is addressed above, you've muddled the definition. When people say dependent, they mean biologically, such as a person on an iron lung or a dialysis machine. These are different than "someone that just needs to be taken care of" They are two separate definitions.

[Epyon42]

"The child is the same being with the same DNA just younger". The difference of dependency is a biological one. Your video completely brushed aside the entire focal point of the topic of abortion. The baby can not internally maintain homeostasis. It is not an independent organism, when it's born its lungs, stomach, immune system all kick in and it is now an independent organism.

[Epyon42]

"The moment before birth the baby is the same the moment after" That is absolutely not true. The moment before the baby relies completely on the mother for staying alive internally. It is the equivalent to being on a respirator. It is, in biological terms, a parasitic relationship (it saps energy from the mother)

[angelshoulders]

A parasite is defined as an organism of one species living in or on an organism of another species (a heterospecific relationship) and deriving its nourishment from the host (is metabolically dependent on the host). (See Cheng, T.C., General Parasitology, p. 7, 1973.) Key phrase- "another species". The Embryo/fetus? is always human.

Google "Why the Embryo or Fetus Is Not a Parasite"

for why your position is inaccurate, educate yourself. The site you want is hosted by libertarians for life

[Epyon42]

Also: bats, and many many other animals recognize from birth. That's why baby chicks latch onto the first thing they see and thing it's their parent. It's biological.

[hugored77]

No, "bats and many other animals" do not recognize their parents from birth. They recognize A CAREGIVER. If you were to incubate duck eggs, the moment they hatch they would think you, Epyon42, were their mother. Babies however, recognize the mother's and father's actual voice and turn to it. Within minutes they also know their parents smell.

[Epyon42]

I don't know of any tests done on humans, but I am sure that if you took a mute mother, and played Oprah next to the womb for 9 months, when the child is born it would recognize Oprah as the mother. And "within minutes", doesn't that reaffirm my point? Birds, bats, deer, anda myriad of other animals recognize what they need to survive within minutes: who supplies the food. Sure, it's amazing, but to say it's something other than nature is disingenuous.

[hugored77]

Epyon42: *yawn*...do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? I mean, if you had something intelligent to say, or could actually make a point, that would be another thing. I'm done with this conversation...say what you will, but comments like yours are anything but original.

[Starlitshores]

Because a baby can recognize his or her particular father's voice right after birth suggests that he or she was aware and thus had a soul before birth. My point is that we cannot draw the line at birth and we are not Gods so we cannot know the moment of ensoulment by empirical means, but we do know its before birth.

[Epyon42]

You just said we can not know, and then immediately said we know it's before birth. Why do you not see this extreme invalidation of your own sentence? (I address "knowing smell/sound/sight" within minutes of birth" above)

[Epyon42]

About 1:00 through you mention that babies can recognize their adults, and question the sources that say babies get their soul at birth, not before. What evidence do you have that they get their soul at conception? You are going to have to use something other than the Bible, you may think it's correct, but I and most of the audience you are trying to convince, don't.

[hugored77]

I am so not interested in a back-and-forth with you Epyon42, everything you say is typical and not logical, even though you may think it is. I just wanted to say, don't force your opinion about the majority of her audience, you're jumping to conclusions and all you are saying is not really a valid argument.

[Epyon42]

Who the hell are you and why are you a waste of human potential?

[hugored77]

Pardon me, Epyon42? Being rude automatically is a disgusting behavior. Is the reason you said I'm a "waste of human potential" because you have nothing else intelligent to say?

[Starlitshores]

Epyon, regarding you, "question the sources that say babies get their soul at birth, not before" My point is that, if one dose not use the bible, there is no way to know when the baby has a soul.

[Epyon42]

Correct, and we live in a democracy, not a theocracy, the Bible isn't a valid source. The issue is far more complicated than you make it out to be. In the Old Testament, God commands "dashing the wombs against the rocks" of the enemies and killing every first born in Egypt. The Bible is hilariously clear that killing babies is not a major concern to God (atleast before Jesus), and it makes absolutely no statement about when life begins other than vague flowerly imagery that could mean anything.

[TeenParentingVisitor]

So, let's take the soul out of the picture for a second. I will not say the soul enters the body at conception, and you will not say the soul enters the body at birth. So what are we left with as a definition for human life?

[TeenParentingVisitor]

What is it about humans that separates us from the animal kingdom? I believe it is our superior ability to reason abstractly, come to conclusions, express those conclusions, influence our environment, and also the ability to communicate through language. You are a human if you have these abilities (older children and adults) or will develop these abilities (infants). By my definition the fetus is human because it will develop these abilities.

What is your definition?

[Epyon42]

Merrim Webster defition 1c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism (homeostasis), growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction. The fetus fails to maintain homeostasis because it receives all nutrients from the mother via the umbilical cord. This is internal regulation, not "it can't eat unless you feed it". Analogies would be someone on a respirator or dialysis. At that point, the next of kin makes the decision if the person can not.

[TeenParentingVisitor]

I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, but my question was in regards to your definition of human, not life. Many things fit under the definition of "life". All animals have the capacity for "metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction, but they are not human. What is it about the human species that makes us what we are? And does the fetus classify under that definition.

[Epyon42]

oh, sorry, Well, sentience. Being self aware mainly, there really isn't anything at all different between us and any other species besides that. Fetus wouldn't follow under that, per say, but neither would a lot of old people. Since I don't think the fetus is a self sustained living organism, whether it is human is moot. I think it's in a parasitic relationship to the mother (saps her resources). It has the same genes as a human, but not fully human, but then again, so does cancer.

[lippazon19]

Cancer has the same genes of the person who has cancer. An unborn child has completly seperate DNA from the mother. So your definition of a person is self awareness how about people with head injuries or mental disablities are they no longer human. What if I got in a car accident tomorrow and lost my self awarness would I than lose my personhood.

[PrincessBecca04]

Actually, to many yes.  These people are taken off life support all the time because OTHERS make the decision that they "wouldn't want to be like that for the rest of their lives". The person themselves cannot make the decision, and it is, right or wrong, made for them. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but is currently considered to be ethical in the medical field.

[Epyon42]

Off the bat, the second book "..Miraculous world..." seemed to use slight of hand in even their Amazon bio mentioning that the fetus can recognize x at 33 weeks, but human gestation is only for 40. So they are intelligent at 7-8 months??? Well I would hope so, since a lot of babies are born premature.

[hugored77]

And yes, Epyon42, they are intelligent at 7-8 months, my daughter was born at 32 wks...and she is incredibly strong still at almost 2 yrs. And no, she didn't look like a "blob" at birth.

[Epyon42]

I never said anything of the sorts, way to drag down the discussion.

[hugored77]

You did say something "of the sort" and here it is: "So they are intelligent at 7-8 months??? Well I would hope so, since a lot of babies are born premature."

That was taken directly from your comment.

[Epyon42]

I never said she was a blob, smartass. I was agreeing with the review of the book, but pointing out that saying a 7-8 month old fetus was intelligent is retardedly obvious due to the number of viable premature births; do you mind reading things slowly and outloud next time?

[hugored77]

Epyon42: It is clearly not obvious given the fact that so many people think Partial-birth abortions are acceptable...partial-birth abortions are performed not much earlier than the seven-month mark that we are arguing about. So yes, I did understand you, I disagreed and still do.