Greg Paul & The Problem of Evil (Part 1) - The Atheist Experience 719

[JapanLessons]

Dr Paul 2012!!

[romans52345]

I think Matt Believes in God, he just does not worship Him and he firmly Hates Him..

[AvalonDraconis]

@romans52345 No, he doesn't believe in god. He think the Christian god is an immoral and evil thing if it did exist, but he doesn't believe any god exists. There is a difference between thinking the idea of a certain god is good and moral and believing in that god. Matt is an atheist and an anti-theist.

[DerivedEnergy]

There's no 'free' will anyway. It's a logically incoherent notion and it comes from religeon, not science.

[chadwick0091]

@DerivedEnergy hmm, interesting thought. what kind of will do you think people have? if any at all...

[jacksawild]

@chadwick0091 For all intents and purposes our will is free but as we live in a deterministic universe then it could be argued that our free will is also predetermined. The answer probably isn't simple.

[elibeth121]

@DerivedEnergy Freedom would be no freedom at all if we not the freedom to choose even what is wrong. It must violate the dignity of a man if we did not respect his freedom. One of the central duties of the State is to protect the liberties of all its citizens, (freedom of religion, assembly, association, freedom of opinion, freedom of ones occupation and so on. The freedom of one citizen is the limit to the freedom of another.

[mdt2189]

@DerivedEnergy I'm an atheist, but I still accept the concept of free will. We may not understand everything about how the brain makes decisions, but I feel that declaring free will nonexistent is dangerous in that it allows people escape the responsibility of their actions.

[macgeek2004]

@WILLTHEWGMAN

It's simple, dude! We know what evil is because God leads by example in the Bible! If there's an evil thing going on in the Bible, it's a good bet that God endorsed (or even commanded) it HIMSELF. Remember kids, those unborn fetuses don't cut THEMSELVES out of their mother's wombs! ;~D lol

[flubno]

Alot of really bad diseases actually came from animals. Not wild animals, but when humans started hording animals on farms , for food. Because it's in unhealthy and in unnatrual conditions. The native Americans grew veggies and hunted for meat , and they didn't have any nasty dieases to give back to the Europeans.

[chadwick0091]

@flubno that which is found in nature is natural. so when you say "unnatural" I think what you actually mean is "unusual." just a thought =) (I meant to post this on the comments, not send you a message lol)

[WhiteDragon103]

@chadwick0091 Three concepts to consider here:

Natural

Artificial

Supernatural

;)

[BohemianBlasphemy]

@flubno

That's true, but industrialization is necessary for global meat consumption. We can't go hunting every time we need an animal to eat, but yeah, many diseases appeared due to our habit of farming them.

Even today we have the occasional epidemic, even though the veterinarian care the meat industry invests in is almost ridiculous.

Still, in the cost/benefit final analysis, that's a price worth paying.

[flubno]

@BohemianBlasphemy Farmer put antibiotic in the farm animals feed, and that helps to hold back super bugs. But bacteria and viruses mutate, and if there ever comes a day when diseases become resistant to antibiotics, we will be well fucked and far from home.

[tazp123]

Why don't theists ever ask _us_ to "prove it"? Just because we could?

[Tarynus]

@tazp123 There are Theists who say "Well, you say there's no God, so prove it!" and they fail to realise Atheism is a rejection of the Theistic claim to there being a God; if I claim the moon is made of cheese, it's up to me to prove my claim is true and the same applies to Theists saying a God exists

The fact that we can't prove or disprove a God's existence doesn't instantly mean there is, but the evidence we've found on other subjects has reduced the chances of a God's existence considerably

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

Not only can't Atheists answer truths in human morality, justice & ones self awareness as an individual with free-will, they discount all of these carte blanc as mere biochemical illusions via their limited world-view. An Atheist has to assert that evil is merely a man made-up concept by believing there is no such intent in life. Individual culpability to crime or evil is only illusory from biochemical puppets of chance and evolution if there is no human soul or creator God with such intents.

[chadwick0091]

@WILLTHEWGMAN 1. atheism isn't a worldview. 2. would you like to share anymore bullshit with us?

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@chadwick0091

Simple questions, do you believe you have freewill? If yes, were is your freewill derived?

[chadwick0091]

@WILLTHEWGMAN how are you defining free will?

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@chadwick0091

Free-will is the ability of agents to make choices free from certain kinds of constraints like a mere biochemical human body reacting to its external environment. My claim that humans have a soul/body dualism and that this soul is humans free-will agent. What is your free-will agent? Do you make your own choices as a separated individual from your body or do you believe in determinism and that there is no human freewill agent and that you are only your biochemical body?

[chadwick0091]

@WILLTHEWGMAN personally, I'm a compatibilist. I believe I make my own choices on an individual level but on the bigger scale, i think there's a biological guiding process in our lives called natural selection. i don't believe people have souls that allow grant them free will.

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@chadwick0091

What part beyond the biochemical body of you could be able to make "make my own choices on an individual level" outside of a biochemical body reacting to its environment? Not sure that logical follows without some further explaining as to what this free-will agent of "you" is and where you are deriving "my" from...?

[chadwick0091]

@WILLTHEWGMAN i'm not sure what you mean when you say "what part beyond the biochemical body"

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@chadwick0091

Normally a Compatibilist's free will is not some kind of ability to have actually chosen differently in an identical situation. The Compatibilist believes that a person always makes the only truly possible decision that they could have. Meaning that free will in choice is only an illusion. I am just asking you what is the "I" and "my" in your statement, "I make my own choices on an individual level" outside of your biochemical body reacting to its environment?

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

Evil exists as a necessity for humans to have full true freewill as we self-evidently do. How could one even obtain by choice any values or virtues over vices if no evils existed? How could one be courageous with no danger or pain? How could ones temperance, forgiveness & mercy be displayed without human choice of good vs. evil or natural dangers existing? If there was no evil there would be no freewill in choice to being good vs. evil and thus no true human choice of any which equals freewill.

[faithisfiction]

CS Lewis has not explained the problem of evil, CS Lewis attempted to rationalise his faith.

There's a difference.

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@faithisfiction

How can there be a problem of evil when the Atheist denies that true evil even exists and all moralities are mere biochemical illusion if there is no human soul or creator with such intent to human life?

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? ~ C.S. Lewis

[elvebrothergenju]

@WILLTHEWGMAN

There is evil in the world, but it is only subject to our interpretation. For example, back in the Viking era, people would pillage and kill and rape. At the time, for the vikings, this was considered good, it was what made them who they were. We are in a different society that has adapted to a different life style. Our morals now will most likely be different in 1000 years, while some common interests will remain, new morals will come up and the subject of evil, will alter.

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@elvebrothergenju

You and Hitler think the same and this is an easy way to justify any action. If you think this is ok to believe this as a world view then how can you have any objective grounds to complain about any immoral action committed against yourself? Many claim a world-view such as yours but very few sane persons live their life in accordance to such world-views.

BTW, Vikings were seen as criminals and barbarians by all others in their days so your whole point is baseless!

[elvebrothergenju]

@WILLTHEWGMAN

Your point that me and Hitler think the same is baseless. in no way did I indicate that I was in favor of this worldview. I'm stating that over time and in different cultures morals have been altered and rewritten. Don't like the Vikings? How about the vatican when they issued for the Crusades, how about the inquisition? The world has been bloodied through human efforts and morality. Acknowledgement of this fact doesn't not represent my personal views on the matter.

[elvebrothergenju]

@WILLTHEWGMAN

So yes, I can complain about immoral actions because I have not stated that nothing is immoral, I actually stated the contrary. The very first sentence I made "There is evil in the world.." clearly states that. Now that I said it was subject to our interpretation is also justified in that we have had to amend the United States constitution several times in order to keep up with what society deems moral. My morality reflects that of experience and culture and by no means is evil.

[bman16407]

@faithisfiction i don't get it. whats the problem of evil? i still don't understand

[elibeth121]

@bman16407 Evil in the world is an obscure and painful mystery.One thing we know for sure, is God is 100 percent good, he can never be the orginator of evil. Moral evils, in contrast come about through the misuse of freedom of the world.Freedom would be no freedom at all if it were not the freedom to choose even what is wrong.

[AlphaDogOmegaDog]

C. S. Lewis explains the problem of evil. If really interested in the subject, read his "Miracles" and "The Problem of Pain". Probably "The Problem of Pain" best directly addresses the question.

[chadwick0091]

@QuestionForAtheists that's how nature works.... 'nuff said

[RamoneHoffman]

@QuestionForAtheists Evoking emotion proves nothing of God's existence. You are using sidelong tactics to prove something completely unrelated.