I really enjoyed listening to this... and then I looked at some of the recent comments. It's interesting how people complain that they can't *hear* anything "better" (not my own word) when they refuse to *listen*
@123mazeppa The RCM British or Canadian grading system is both a blessing and a curse, it is useful for beginner students, but it pretends that a "level" can be given to all pieces...which is not the case; although I would but it beyond 11; a good 3rd year undergrad or graduate student piece for reference; similar to Gaspard or Transcendental Etudes.
Nothing will help those of you who define "better" as "faster and louder",
You compare piano roll with acoustic recording... Passages played by mechanical piano are unnaturally fast and loud. Rachmaninoff's passages are not only fast and clear but also played with great elegance and superb intonation. F.e. check out measures 47-49 (B-dur scales). FYO I've never said Rachmaninoff "plays better" - "they both are better".
Rachmaninoff's playing of this particular piece is dry. His scales are not as good as Busoni's.
They are not as even as Busoni's.
And Rachmaninoff was a great player and technician.
Find De Pachmann's youtube recording of part of this same piece for a remarkable demonstration of remarkably even and controlled passagework combined with trills, the ultimate "pearly touch."
I've given you plenty of opportunities to face your own ignorance and rudeness. Probably your predilection to boxing diminished your intellectual and emotional responses. I should follow good old wisdom - "Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." Hopefully people will see the difference.
For those of you who have difficulties to read my answers I repeat - check out measures 47-49 (B-dur scales). Sorry if you can't read score or don't hear about B-dur.
Liszt did not like to hear this piece played by others, the melody was often blurred and resulted in it being played, well ... badly. if only he could have heard Rachmaninoff ....
Why do you assume that people who disagree with you are "halfwits" and "have never heard" Busoni's recording? That would be halfwitted! ;)
You compare brilliant mechanical (and artificially "enhanced") recording with acoustic one. Again, Busoni was a great pianist, but nobody's scales (including Busoni) could put Rachmaninoff to shame. Piano art is not a "scoring game"... and please don't use CAPS excessively.
2. I didn't "evaluate" Busoni's playing or said anything negative about him.
Seems like you're trapped by your own suspicions and can't accept a very simple idea, - primitive quantitative comparison (speed, loudness, amount of notes, etc.) doesn't work here.
Rachmaninofs interpretations are always intelligent and with a background of solid technique. His concerts must have been a very big event as the Horowitz concerts were.
The russian intelligence in exile. Was a big chance for the USA to get these pianists and composers.
At approx. 7:12 Busoni either adds his own coda, (spectacular) or because of limited recording space the composition is cut or in typical Liszt fashion, it's another version! I will post the Everest recording, 1970s, of the piano roll. The Everest recording is far superior to the CD issued a few years back - hopefully soon.
Only When you can play better than Rachmaninoff and Busoni yourself can you have the right to compare them. None of us can so just sit back and enjoy a great piece of music played by one of the all time greats.
Please don't compare mechanical Busoni's record (not regulated dynamically and pedally bur freely in tempo - Welte Mignon- compared with Ampico) with Rach's acoustic recording!
He really wonderfully, and subtly captures the dance aspect of this. PS. although I don't mind this in a pianist, I think it would be fascinating if it were the case for Rachmaninov; in 0.54-0.56, is it just me who hears him singing a little bit along with it?!?!? And a few tiny other moments throughout...
But he could play parallel double thirds with one hand!
Big hands do make playing octaves easier, but the same time they (hands) become a "liability" in different types of technique (thirds, some *fine* passages). Rachmaninoff technical skills are amazing, but what makes his playing so special is a composer/conductor approach - he never gives up a big picture for fine details... still all details are there.
I believe he could play and ocate + a sixth (how do you call that interval in english?) C -defgabcdefg- A. I saw a picture where he plays that interval. if you look at his preludes you'll see that he was capable of that kind of chords. (G B B and then the third finger in the C#)
What fascinates me about Rachmaninoff's playing is his clarity in the midst of finger-crunching passages. His powerful technique isn't intimidated by Liszt's difficult octave passages, either. Amazing!
everyone knows he's a phenomenal pianist, and i find this photo hauntingly beautiful & elegant in very rachmaninoffian way with a hint of sadness, nostalgia.
such a nice performance. But i still wish I could hear the No. 1 Polonaise in C minor, by Rachmaninoff's . as i had learned to play it way way back. . .
I am surprised that no one has commented on Rachmaninoff's playing C instead of E on the third beat of the first measure. Is this an improvement? Or if it isn't,why not? For those who think it might be worthwhile to hear a Liszt pupil play this Polonaise,Arthur de Greef's performance is on You Tube.
I had just assumed it was an error,a minor slip not worth interrupting the imperious flow for. I certainly don't consider it an improvement as it breaks the logic of those reiterated E's. It doesn't affect the whole tremendous sweep of this commanding interpretation.
It was mentioned on KPBS San Diego classical that there were such videos on youtube. I hadn't even considered there were recordings of Rachmaninov - thank you for posting this!
Astounding! Makes Cziffra (love him) sound like a student. This style of strict virtuosity is lost forever leaving most pianists sounding like clones. For such huge hands the clarity & tempo is beyond comprehension; strict Polonaise tempo to the end. Rachmaninov stands supreme!
Cziffra !!!
lego10123 6 days ago
Its great , but i still think that cziffra is better .
lego10123 1 month ago
Unbelievably great. Makes Richter and Cziffra sound like slobs, which they definitely were not!
JohnsonPollock 3 months ago
I really enjoyed listening to this... and then I looked at some of the recent comments. It's interesting how people complain that they can't *hear* anything "better" (not my own word) when they refuse to *listen*
themindandmusic 11 months ago
Can someone tell me, What grade is this piece in?
I just want to know.
123mazeppa 11 months ago
@123mazeppa The RCM British or Canadian grading system is both a blessing and a curse, it is useful for beginner students, but it pretends that a "level" can be given to all pieces...which is not the case; although I would but it beyond 11; a good 3rd year undergrad or graduate student piece for reference; similar to Gaspard or Transcendental Etudes.
OniyukiRyuken 9 months ago
Busoni plays this piece far better than Rachmaninoff.
marcxopoco 11 months ago
@marcxopoco
You have already posted *enough*.
truecrypt 11 months ago
neither @truecrypt or the rest of the posters here have ever heard Busoni play this piece.
marcxopoco 11 months ago
@marcxopoco
As I said before - you make broad assumptions with no factual proof.
Not to mention you're not polite either.
truecrypt 11 months ago
@truecrypt, tell us what specific passages Rachmaninoff plays better than Busoni.
Waiting.
marcxopoco 11 months ago
@marcxopoco
Nothing will help those of you who define "better" as "faster and louder",
You compare piano roll with acoustic recording... Passages played by mechanical piano are unnaturally fast and loud. Rachmaninoff's passages are not only fast and clear but also played with great elegance and superb intonation. F.e. check out measures 47-49 (B-dur scales). FYO I've never said Rachmaninoff "plays better" - "they both are better".
truecrypt 11 months ago
@truecrypt hasn't heard Busoni play this piece.
And he never will.
Rachmaninoff's playing of this particular piece is dry. His scales are not as good as Busoni's.
They are not as even as Busoni's.
And Rachmaninoff was a great player and technician.
Find De Pachmann's youtube recording of part of this same piece for a remarkable demonstration of remarkably even and controlled passagework combined with trills, the ultimate "pearly touch."
marcxopoco 11 months ago
@marcxopoco
I've given you plenty of opportunities to face your own ignorance and rudeness. Probably your predilection to boxing diminished your intellectual and emotional responses. I should follow good old wisdom - "Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." Hopefully people will see the difference.
truecrypt 11 months ago
@truecrypt has never answered my questions of what specific passages Racxhmaninoff plays better than Busoni in this piece.
Waiting.
marcxopoco 11 months ago
@marcxopoco
For those of you who have difficulties to read my answers I repeat - check out measures 47-49 (B-dur scales). Sorry if you can't read score or don't hear about B-dur.
It's time for you to go... blocked!
truecrypt 11 months ago
Liszt did not like to hear this piece played by others, the melody was often blurred and resulted in it being played, well ... badly. if only he could have heard Rachmaninoff ....
JEatsbabies 1 year ago
rachmaninoff - first class composer, conductor and pianist!
4785689 1 year ago
Amazing. One of the best pianists/composers ever, playing one of the best pianists/composers ever.
Can only fall in love with this.
dullaartegc 1 year ago
Fantastic!!!
MrDoremidoredo 1 year ago
whoa!
4785689 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The halfwits here HAVE NEVER HEARD Busoni play this Polonaise.
His playing of it is superior in every way to Rachmaninoff's.
His scales put Rachmaninoff to shame.
In comparision Rachmaninoff's playing of this piece is thin in tone, and on a lesser plane than Busoni's astonishing virtuosity.
I REPEAT:
The halfwits posting HAVE NEVER HEARD Busoni play this piece/
But that doesn't stop them from jabbering.
marcxopoco 2 years ago
@marcxopoco
Why do you assume that people who disagree with you are "halfwits" and "have never heard" Busoni's recording? That would be halfwitted! ;)
You compare brilliant mechanical (and artificially "enhanced") recording with acoustic one. Again, Busoni was a great pianist, but nobody's scales (including Busoni) could put Rachmaninoff to shame. Piano art is not a "scoring game"... and please don't use CAPS excessively.
truecrypt 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If you have never heard Busini play this piece and are stupid enough to make evaluations of his playing of it
you are definitely a halfwit.
marcxopoco 2 years ago
@marcxopoco
Wrong assumptions! ;)
1. I've heard Busoni's recording and...
2. I didn't "evaluate" Busoni's playing or said anything negative about him.
Seems like you're trapped by your own suspicions and can't accept a very simple idea, - primitive quantitative comparison (speed, loudness, amount of notes, etc.) doesn't work here.
truecrypt 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
truecrypt
You don't know the piece.
You can't play a scale.
Otherwise you are an "evaluator."
LOL
marcxopoco 2 years ago
@marcxopoco
I really enjoyed our exchange... You know very little but assume a lot! ;)
truecrypt 2 years ago 9
@marcxopoco
Is the recording of this piece by Busoni an audio recording? If so, where could I find it?
euntaekkim 1 year ago
@marcxopoco You dare snub Rachmaninoff? You are talking about all us half wits, too bad you've left no wit for yourself.
fierydog 11 months ago
Rachmaninofs interpretations are always intelligent and with a background of solid technique. His concerts must have been a very big event as the Horowitz concerts were.
The russian intelligence in exile. Was a big chance for the USA to get these pianists and composers.
uhartchristian 2 years ago 3
At approx. 7:12 Busoni either adds his own coda, (spectacular) or because of limited recording space the composition is cut or in typical Liszt fashion, it's another version! I will post the Everest recording, 1970s, of the piano roll. The Everest recording is far superior to the CD issued a few years back - hopefully soon.
CD122344 2 years ago
Is Busoni's interpretation on youtube? I can't find it.
nmvdw 2 years ago
Only When you can play better than Rachmaninoff and Busoni yourself can you have the right to compare them. None of us can so just sit back and enjoy a great piece of music played by one of the all time greats.
barker747 2 years ago 2
Please don't compare mechanical Busoni's record (not regulated dynamically and pedally bur freely in tempo - Welte Mignon- compared with Ampico) with Rach's acoustic recording!
ekimalex 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Busoni's playing of this piece is far better.
Busoni's plays the downward scales with more velocity. His tempo from the start is faster. His shading and dynamics is superior.
And Rachmaninoff was no slouch.
Hearing this makes me realize how superior Busoni was.
marcxopoco 2 years ago
Comparing two giants is a very difficult and often ungrateful task, especially when you try to "analyze" why "one is better than another".
Busoni was one of the Giants, but he wasn't superior to Rachmaninoff in any way.
truecrypt 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Busoni is far superior to Rachmaninoff in his playing of this Liszt E major Polonaise.
marcxopoco 2 years ago
Dear marcxopoco,
As long as you clearly state that your comment reflects your personal views only, I have no problem with it (even if it sounds ludicrous).
truecrypt 2 years ago
Extraordinary tension and elasticity in his playing that makes it all of one luminous cloth. Love the Russian propulsive musical approach.
vstasov 2 years ago
had roles been reversed would franz have played rach, well we can dream cant we
zakfleshman 2 years ago
important question:
at 3:57 he plays it differently than cziffra.
does anyone know which way is the way liszt wrote it?
ibclappin 2 years ago
He really wonderfully, and subtly captures the dance aspect of this. PS. although I don't mind this in a pianist, I think it would be fascinating if it were the case for Rachmaninov; in 0.54-0.56, is it just me who hears him singing a little bit along with it?!?!? And a few tiny other moments throughout...
davidgray2 2 years ago
I listened several times, but didn't catch the singing... doesn't mean it's not there. That would be incredible to hear.
ChurchPianistFL 2 years ago
i'll have to learn this :| :((
ginkiZo 2 years ago
Love the taut rhythm and fleet finger work. In fact for me this is the finest performance of the piece.
meredith21846 2 years ago
Wonderfully light and clear. Marvellous facility and touch aligned with a sense of sheer joy in the music.
18111886liszt 3 years ago 2
i had no idea of this recording. thank you!
kasyapa 3 years ago 2
Go rachmaninoff
he looks handsome.
isn't it???
nice right??
cah bor!
KevinR3i 3 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
but .. he just curt one part.. the candenza .. he didn't play it .. w t f
VictorMedinaA 3 years ago
Meticulous.
Stunning.
Gorgeous.
mishima1974 3 years ago 3
What coruscating fioritura!
Noshirm 3 years ago
wow this is the first time I have heard Rachmaninov play Liszt. This sounds maybe better then Earl Wild and Georgy Cziffra..
xclassicheadx 3 years ago
Rachmaninov is just one of the best pianis ever lived! Wonderful played!
Mozartstavanger 3 years ago 16
I like how he almost "swings" the main theme as he plays it. I love Rachmaninoff!
reddoghud 3 years ago
physical ability and pride have the potential to squeeze changes from the music of the composer.
ibclappin 3 years ago
No, Rachmaninoff couldn't play 2 octaves ;)
But he could play parallel double thirds with one hand!
Big hands do make playing octaves easier, but the same time they (hands) become a "liability" in different types of technique (thirds, some *fine* passages). Rachmaninoff technical skills are amazing, but what makes his playing so special is a composer/conductor approach - he never gives up a big picture for fine details... still all details are there.
truecrypt 3 years ago
Well stated.
matthew1722 3 years ago
What do you mean by parallel double thirds, is that like c and e and c and e an octave higher.
pianiplunker 3 years ago 2
Yes, exactly!
truecrypt 3 years ago
I believe he could play and ocate + a sixth (how do you call that interval in english?) C -defgabcdefg- A. I saw a picture where he plays that interval. if you look at his preludes you'll see that he was capable of that kind of chords. (G B B and then the third finger in the C#)
what an amazing artist he was.. cheers guys!
DonFrankos 3 years ago 2
13th - Any jazz pianist who can reach that can play amazingly! The 13th is the fundamental of blues.
jazzlover06 3 years ago
send me a message with the link i want to listen it
i didnt find it on youtube
rautibo 2 years ago
search Oscar Peterson...
jazzlover06 2 years ago
Thanks, I can do that too but I'm not really a pianist unfortunatly.
pianiplunker 3 years ago 2
What fascinates me about Rachmaninoff's playing is his clarity in the midst of finger-crunching passages. His powerful technique isn't intimidated by Liszt's difficult octave passages, either. Amazing!
horatiodreamt 3 years ago
everyone knows he's a phenomenal pianist, and i find this photo hauntingly beautiful & elegant in very rachmaninoffian way with a hint of sadness, nostalgia.
Verityseo 3 years ago 2
Lord of the piano gods.
joesubaruson 3 years ago
No 2 is the popular one of Liszt's Polonaises.
No 1 is rarely, if ever, played. In all my 70 years, (and I'm a classical pianist), I don't think I've ever heard No 1.
snaaptaker 4 years ago
whaaaaaaaaaaaat!?!?!!?! DUDE?!??? no.1 is so much more beautiful than polonaise no.2
classicalarchives . com
they have it. GO LISTEN.
prestomoltoagitato 3 years ago
cziffra has a great recoding of no1 i have it from an all cziffra/liszt CD set. its phenomenal.
kaperisk 3 years ago
How many polonaises Liszt composed?
Just 2?
I coudn't find the first one here in youtube...
garotobossanova 4 years ago
Two Polonaises S223
No 1 Polonaise mélancolique in C minor
No 2 Polonaise in E major
YT is not a comprehensive source of classical music. For CDs check Amazon, for music scores - a lot of online stores.
truecrypt 4 years ago
Thank you!
garotobossanova 4 years ago
such a nice performance. But i still wish I could hear the No. 1 Polonaise in C minor, by Rachmaninoff's . as i had learned to play it way way back. . .
nhanot 4 years ago
such a fabulous performance. terrifying to think of playing this with such 'revealing' pedaling
aardvaark069 4 years ago
I am surprised that no one has commented on Rachmaninoff's playing C instead of E on the third beat of the first measure. Is this an improvement? Or if it isn't,why not? For those who think it might be worthwhile to hear a Liszt pupil play this Polonaise,Arthur de Greef's performance is on You Tube.
Beckmesser2 4 years ago
I had just assumed it was an error,a minor slip not worth interrupting the imperious flow for. I certainly don't consider it an improvement as it breaks the logic of those reiterated E's. It doesn't affect the whole tremendous sweep of this commanding interpretation.
NOSEhow2LIV 3 years ago
I guess YouTube IS good for something
It was mentioned on KPBS San Diego classical that there were such videos on youtube. I hadn't even considered there were recordings of Rachmaninov - thank you for posting this!
PaoloSoleri 4 years ago 3
What I love is the playing ahead of the beat combined with the quick micro-accelerandi.
There is no other way to get the playfulness as he does it here.Shame it's so rare today.
smithsherman 4 years ago
Astounding! Makes Cziffra (love him) sound like a student. This style of strict virtuosity is lost forever leaving most pianists sounding like clones. For such huge hands the clarity & tempo is beyond comprehension; strict Polonaise tempo to the end. Rachmaninov stands supreme!
4realrussiansonly 4 years ago