Countdown: Tortured Response

[whoybeen]

nothing is going to be done we need to except this.

[garthggarth]

Saru, rkcoon, FRT: I hate the fact that we waterboarded in this era, especially after it's been proven that we have bent our morals in the past- at least according to the history channel. I put this moral quandary to all of you-- During WW2, Japanese scintists did the most horrible (worse than the Nazis) experiments on Chinese as to regards to chemical and biological agents. WE pardoned those butchers for that data. Anthrax, smallpox, godknows what-on live subjects.

torture by Proxy?

[rkcoon]

Thank you, garthggarth - and let us not forget, as i mentioned, the decades of suffering wrought on the aforementioned Japanese cities as well - one could also make a case of a nation committing torture on another in a broad sense there.

[Saru1976]

What are you talking about!? Seriously, you're a fucking moron. What does Hiroshima have to do with torturing prisoners? Please, don't try to answer. I think I loose IQ points every time I read one of your posts. Go get a library card and read some books. Maybe you should get a dictionary first and look up "torture". BTW, why would I ask a Japanese soldier how they felt about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? It's not only irrelavent but just plain senseless.

[rkcoon]

Firstly, id like to apologize to the host of this vid - it seems "freedom of speech and thought" exists in name only round these parts (Yet some seem to feel free - or perhaps pressured - to resort to childish namecalling) Secondly, since the point i was making was obviously entirely missed, i shall elaborate - as proven by historical evidence (the same you demand but provide none of)that both H&N were selected deliberately as civilian targets in time of war. continued..

[rkcoon]

Thirdly, as i said to start with, again ill clarify - i dont think the american government was right in its actions, but i do recognise that at times excess force is the only thing recognised

[rkcoon]

(oops, wrong button) by some warring factions that have never seen peace, that have avoided peace, that has fought and slaughtered to avoid peace. I simply have no sympathy for those that do engage in tactics that even the Japanese and Nazis at their worst never even considered. If they wished peace, they've had literally eight millenia to engage in such - but have refused. so, why waste more lives. more time, and more resources, on a collection of people refusing peace. continued..

[rkcoon]

Finally, While I do hope that the bush admin does get tried - and hung - for war crimes, i would not base that hanging solely on the waterboarding they've engaged in - there is plenty to hang them off of.

[slapme7times]

MOAR NEEDLESS GENOCIDE! >=)

[FRTothus]

America is no longer a nation of law. The Bush administration is guilty of war crimes, by their own admission, but will not be held accountable, no different from the Nazis of Germany or the Mafia, except they WERE and ARE held accountable. The Bush junta must be brought up on charges, while Obama, entrusted to uphold the law, skirts his responsibilities. What a disappointment the United States has become. I am so ashamed of this country and what it represents.

[FRTothus]

I believe you responded to the wrong post.

[fallon75]

I know, wouldn't let me erase it :'( I did give you a thumbs up though

[rkcoon]

Considering the facts that these psychos have been killing each other for the last ten thousand years, that these savages use women and children for human shields, have zero respect for any law aside of their own, employ children in their butchery, and treat women as less than slaves, Im forced to disagree with the liberals on this topic - torture the sickos, speak in a language they clearly understand.

That said,this does not alleviate the crimes by the US government to start with.

[Saru1976]

Your statements are as acurate as the people who post that all Americans are "gun-toting illiterate Christian fundamentalists who sanction the bombing of hundreds of thousands of women and children in foreign countries". BTW, would you want our troops to get water-boarded? Would that be an ugly necessity of war? We executed Japanese officers who water-boarded in WW2. It sounds like you are the one who only understands the language of violence.

[rkcoon]

Dont kid yourself - i DO in fact understand the language of BOTH violence and reason - I am pointing out these people, as stated above do not. Further, every war has it's dirty little secrets, as does every army. IE, ask the Japanese sometime how they felt/feel about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Normally, I am in fact a rather liberal person - but if one is reasonably certain of the guilt of some (obviously not all are) then since they dont hold back in their savagery, why should "we(used loosely)?

[rkcoon]

Oh and BTW, at the risk of sounding crass - thier recent election down there (Im Canadian) did in fact proved that the ""gun-toting illiterate Christian fundamentalists" has dropped from the majority, to just under half. Thank gods for major miracles.

[fallon75]

so we'll just ignore the fact that torture doesn't work and punnish others for being brutal, saage and breaking the law by... being brutal, savage and breaking the law? waterboarding might not work, maybe raping their wives and torturing their children might get the job done! btw what "they" are you refering to? also, if you can justify away your war crimes, why can't "they".

[rkcoon]

Then I ask - how far would you be willing to go to defend your family, all you hold dear? think before answering.

[fallon75]

do research before you post! as has been stated numerous times, torture doesn't work! that didn't get any true intel out of the guy! lowering yourself to "their" level just justifies their position and creates more sympathy for them, thus more terrorists. You know that reactionist justification is probably the same ones spouted by numerous terrorists groups. It is being used right now by Israel to bomb the heck out of Gaza.

[fallon75]

BTW 24 is just a tv, its not real life. Jacks not going to rush is at seconds befor the hour and save is all.

[rkcoon]

Uh ,well, if it doesnt work, why has it been used since the dawn of man?(for the record, i dont watch TV) Short answer: in some cases, it does work. Though, that said, there are more humane ways to, shall we say, extract information - my entire point here is that in some cases, Reason wont be an adequate answer to Violence. Canada itself is finding this out in Afghanistan - as the locals dont seem particularly apologetic about the 105(last i saw) Canadian soldiers thatve died trying bring peace.

[fallon75]

As for the people fighting, as you said "how far would you be willing to go to defend your family, all you hold dear?" the people killing our soldiers are just following your logic.