For 13 years I haven't felt this powerless, sad and totaly angry at the same time as when in Homeworld I saw Kharak burning and was trying my best to save them all. I still sometimes open the old and tattered manual just to go through the pages, read the story and relive some of the best gaming moments of my life. HW was first game I ever purchased and it stayed with me so far as one of the most precious pieces I have in my collection. And this music simply proves why.
God I loved the beginning of homeworld. You didn't need characterization. You only had the resources for a handful of ships anyway and every single one of them was instantly important to you.
Pure story-through-gameplay element right there. Brilliant.
I've heard several takes on this piece (though never on strings; rather ironic considering the title), and this remains my favorite version. The voices add a haunting quality that really set the tone for the gameplay.
This has to be one of the most beautiful pieces of music created, the moment when I first heard it in game still stick with me to this day. I could feel their pain as they watched Kharak burn...
The goosebumps, simply from reading the phrase (hearing it in the voice of the tactical advisor) "Hiigara. Our Home.", one can get is amazing. Also, the infamous mission 3... Manages to be more emotional than basically any other computer/video game to date, and the best thing is they didn't try too hard - it just hits the perfection spot.
This was the first game I played that I would say was truly epic. The story, the score, the sense of scale and despair. I've still yet to play anything like it.
The fact that someone at Relic came up with the idea to combine THIS piece and their already outstanding fiction really gives me hope for humanity. That they could pull so much emotion out of a game that at its heart really wasn't character-driven at all shows it's worth, especially against character powerhouses like Star Wars. The setting is infinite, the story is sound, and that feeling you get at the end of the final level...i cannot think of many things more compelling. "Hiigara. Our Home."
I plug in my headphones, turn this up to 9, and close my eyes. This is some of the most amazing music in gaming history. Thank you Samuel Barber, and thank you Relic entertainment.
i came to this vid in all seriousness about the music, but you sir, Inaste666 have truly made my day! you are possibly the most contradictory person i have ever not met 0_o. you evidently try to be sophisticated with your complaints (not going into detail because i only looked at the argument with pondrthis) for what i would call attention seeking , your spelling is worse than an illiterate five day year old child, and on top of that you're a fatalist! and that last one is my job :p
@LSFDevastator however, i cant disagree with your channel description. i would say that i am my own definition of a realist, that we are so bound be rules, regulations and expectations that we dont have any more time to do something different, or to live a real life. and the sad thing is that im thinking like this at the age of 14.
@LSFDevastator Don't stop, your destiny is yours to choose. You can't control where you were born, the education you were indoctrinated with, the steps that have lead you to here. But from here you do have a choice, start living now! Make life what ever you want to make of it, so that on your last breath, you will have no regrets. Life is so short, I have wasted so much of it already, the rest of my time will be just that, my time.
What the shit is this conversation here? You're both spouting nonsense as if it's some intelligent discourse, but it's nothing but stoner hogwash riddled with spelling and punctuation errors.
Also, the vocal version of this piece is itself called "Agnus Dei", it's not just the lyrics from "Agnus Dei". The arrangement was done by the composer himself, if I'm not mistaken.
@pondrthis Stoner hogwash? Oh i see, so you're too incompetent too think further then the whores you see and the bullshit you follow on TV, and so you spread mindless comments to prove your incompetence? Get out and come back when you have something usefull to say, at least one is interrested in.
@Inaste666 Yes, stoner hogwash. People interested in answering questions rather than asking them don't waste time on things like that. "iv'e" got more important things "too" do "then" wonder about "filosofy" out of "interrest"... things like my job. Which, by the way, actually works toward "usefull" improvement of the lives of my fellow men and women.
PS I don't even get network TV here, let alone cable. And that whore is my wife, thanks.
@pondrthis So thinking about phylosofy and being on an open internet source discussing it with other people, what it was actually invented for, isn't right, but as long as you can spread bullshit towards people who do, just to draw all attention to yourself is? Dude, you make no sence at all. You might be, as far as i know, one of the most pathetic persons iv'e ever met. Go to a place that is interrested in your self-centered attention sucking bullcrap, because you're just not that interresting
@jaspertjie You and him are one of many reasons why i hate human beings. Nothing more then idiotic, pathetic creatures who, instead of acquire knowledge, like to do nothing more then trying to make stupid attempts to make fun of them. No, you little shit. I'm not butthurt. I'm trying to make a point, and through text you can't see the meaning behind sentences. It's like not being able to read sarcasm on paper. Now get out, i'm done with idiots like you.
@Inaste666 If you want to sound coherent and "smart" (at least as smart as the average person), try picking up a dictionary and review each and every one of the words you typed. How you look is how you get treated.
@khestal Well not everyone is english. ''How you look is how you get treated''. So i started a nice conversation with someone here and get cursed at and all the sudden i have no life? No, you guys are the dumbasses here. Selfish bastards, go get stabbed or something, im done here.
This video makes me wonder, you know if there is anyone out there. Why are we here, isn't that just the greatest question, our existence what does it mean? Do we have a purpose?
@UltimateWATCHER2 Iv'e read a lot of different books about life and filosofy, but we all will know there will never be a true answer to that. Maybe it's for ourselves, to acomplish as much as we can in life to get a fullfilled feeling when we are awaiting death at the end. For some it is to follow a god, for some life means freedom. But iv'e stopped asking what life means for us. Iv'e asked myself what it means for myself. And in the end, that question is harder...
@Inaste666 Nice response. You can make the answer even more baffling by wondering if truth is not actually a constant, which I think is true, for example our purpose may change as life goes on. Maybe we have an ultimate purpose with each moment rather than a single long term goal. For me biodiversity and environmental issues and how the capital system makes them worse is the biggest imperative right now: We have killed over a million Iraqi's under the same auspices we've killed 94% of the ocean.
@vapourmile True, yet for myself i find it hard to ''care'' about others. You see i'm not dumb, not telling im a genius either, but in my mind it's hard to feel sorry for someone else, because i gave up on humanity. Sounds harsh, but i grew a sligh affection for humans. There are some exeptions, that's why i try to have these conversations, to reach out for them. Im more of a loner, that's why in life i try to make as much decissions for myself as possible. Maybe i'm just selfish
@vapourmile (sorry i wasn't quite dont yet)... But when you are like me and spend a lot of time alone, you start to wonder about your life. I often make decissions that have benefit for myself, but when thinking about the decission i also wonder how the other choice might have changed my life. From small parts from the decission to huge parts later in my life. Ultimately, i find myself just a watcher of a long movie within i play the head-part, i can't control what will happen, i can only think.
@Inaste666 Ok, cool, although it is pretty difficult to respond to deep stuff like this from with a 500 character text box! : ) One thing I noticed though friend is citing your own lack of appreciation for other people? You see, appreciation is the basis of all enjoyment of life... starting with appreciating and respecting your own feelings... then appreciating we can sit here in comfort relative ease thanks to the hard work of others. Think what life would be like if Nobody supported you?
@vapourmile Well, i have a big social circle, so it's not that i don't have friends. But i do ''filter'' my friends. I don't approve those who do not have standard knowledge and lack the skill of intelligence. The point that i don't like people, is because i see these days how stupid they can be, with an economy built apon MTV and materialism. I constructed my life in the way that i do not need support from people. I'm more of a solist... And all i need to accomplish my life, is to be left alone
@Inaste666 You do not need support from other people? That is surprising... how did you manage that? I do appreciate what you mean about TV diets of reality TV and news programs that seem almost purpose built to distract people from thinking about genuine causes. I can also see what you mean about filtering people... I like to be friendly and egalitarian as I can but I have had to dump friendships that are too hard to manage for what they're worth.
@vapourmile Well, i can live my life without depending on other people. I set up a straight line in life that i only have to follow. Other people belong to the sub-version of my life, wich include family, friends, going out etc. As long as i stick to my plan, nobody will interfere or try to change the way i live, because if there is one thing i hate about people, is that they consistantly want to stick their nose into my life. That's why i dont have to depend on support. So, what's your story?
If you ever need to reaffirm the belief that people are stupid, then come on down to the Youtube comments section. There, you'll see people who just won't walk away from a retarded argument because somehow proving you're right over the internet makes them feel good.
this was originally in platoon :3 and im a 17 year old young man and this song brings tears to my eyes and the woman im in love with can play this on the viola :) my life = complete
F C: No one's left... Everything's gone... Kharak is burning.
F I: Kharak is being consumed by a firestorm... The Scaffold has been destroyed... All orbital facilities destroyed... Significant debris ring in low Kharak orbit... Receiving no communication from anywhere in the system; not even beacons.
F C: Wait, on the Maintenance frequency. I'm getting a signal from the Cryo-Tray system in orbit. One of them is suffering a Major Malfunction.
F I :The Cryo-Trays are under attack, Defend them!
I think the more important question is why is there an argument about God in the comment section of song from a video game?
This discussion has no place here as it has no relevance to the video. Both sides arguing about this topic are making themselves look like asses, by having an argument in a place where the topic of Homeworld (aka one of the best space based video games in the world) should be discussed.
If someone has proven that they are right, it is perfectly acceptable for them to go into an argument with a "presupposition that they are already correct."
God can neither be proven true nor false, therefore he has no connections to reality whatsoever and should be dismissed as an arbitrary concept. Therefore, creationism is also an arbitrary concept disconnected from reality. Therefore, Christians are irrational morons. Rational philosophy for the win. The scientists can thank me later.
OMG i want to start playing homeworld again now! What a game. Thsi music is great. I found it really hard to find the vocal version so big thank-you to kilmindaro2 for uploading it.
Love the Agnus Dei version of Barber's soaringly beautiful piece; but this performance is waaaaay too fast for my tastes. Comes in best at about 8 minutes IMO.
It's not good to judge someone for their beliefs or ideas, everyone has their opinion. You can't say someone is right and the other is wrong, it's just theory.
@transtlantic I see what your saying, you think all creationists are dumb. IMHO Creationists today are just misguided by organized religions, not all creationists are dumb, its just the majority.
@transtlantic everyone can see just by looking at the way you're writing that you can't be that smart: "LOLOL" ehm ok... and the way you insult others.
if you would stop being so aggressive towords others one might believe you
your reply was to a post where not one single "LOL" was written by me.
plus... i stated the fact that creationists are dumb and DO produce a ton of imaginary crap.
this is not an insult, you idiot.
my agressive writing has a point. it stops cretards from writing buy bull induced shit.
i am far smarter than you, no doubt about that. because you failed to notice that the science i present is quite sound and smart. the insults are entirly irrelevant.
@transtlantic "dumb" "crap" "you idiot" "bull induced shit" you sound like an 12 year old, sorry.
and second: HAHAHAHAHA ... well, i laughed at you :P :*
the reason for that is: "because you failed to notice...(and so on)". well my dear, i didn't failed! I am an atheist too you know, i don't believe in gods nor myth just like you!
hehe, pay a little attention if you're so smart: i never doubted you so please.
@DishrackDarwin LOL you are the one that is mad, stupid and showing that you are a joke!
you are obsessed because a physician (me) proved that creationism is a pile of horse crap promoted by religious nutcases, bible thumpers, ignorant uneducated morons like you!
@DishrackDarwin I am a doctor. and you are JUST another uneducated ignorant religious fundamentalist mad at me, obsessed with me, because i proved that
Creationism is equal to claiming that Honey is made out of nowhere by blue fairies!
Transtlantic you are a jerk, you really are.....need to grow up..Been watching your discussions and you been uncivil, flaming and border line trolling. You have no shown traits of a person with a Masters, all you shown is typical Internet Eisensteinism and quoting typical rhetoric with out the understanding of observed natural process. There are plenty of creatures that have remained unchanged, there are unknowns in the natural cycle of life. You give us intellectuals a bad name...sheesh.
@BladeValant546 a jerk? lol... what kind of retarded tactic is that? a straw man now? lolol
uncivil? doesn't disprove any of the evidence presented. border line trolling? hardly.
what kind of traits does a person with a Masters require? Lol...
without the understanding of observed natural process? LOL...moron...i already asked you this more than once: try explain AB resistance or vascular plant speciation w/out using evolution theory.
i can explain it WITH evo theory. not without. can you?
"plenty of creatures that have remained unchanged"? pure bullshit. all life forms change. it's a fact of existence. "Unknowns"? lord of the gaps is hardly an argument. i give intelectuals a new boost. as my generation of intelectuals is tired of ignorant uneducated fuck ups like you.
If only people understood difference between science and philosophy...sigh Percpetions of reality is based on our current perceptions to say somethign beyond those perceptions is putting faith in something and strictly assumption. Realist ftw....
Fleet command to all strike craft, Engage and destroy the ships attacking the cryo-trays. Salvage teams, prepare for combat reclaimation of any wreckage of value. All hands, actions stations, this is not a drill, repeat, this is not a drill. Hibernation personnel, prepare to receive the cryo-trays.
i love the music, i was searching for the soundtrack of the game, because i was remembering how i liked this game and in particular the music. the cretard followed me, stalked me and posted his usual stupidity. i replied back.
stating the fact that all cretards are uneducated fucks, is no problem at all.
i hope you enjoy Agnus Dei as much as i do.
take care
i like the fact that everyone can voice their thoughts on youtube, no one forced you to read any of this.
@transtlantic That's the problem. Overarching generalizations that are unfounded and uncalled for. Sure, he was being an idiot. Doesn't excuse your statements.
For any one party to claim that the opposing viewpoint's representatives are absolutely wrong and have no foundation in knowledge or wisdom at all is absurd, arrogant, and ignorant.
Intelligent discussion requires both sides not operate under the presupposition that they are already correct.
@General4nubis doesn't excuse your statements? why would i need to excuse myself from calling creationists a bunch of uneducated fucks? it's a fact what i am stating.
wait...opposing viewpoint? creationism IS absolutely wrong and has NO foundation in knowledge or wisdom.
so it is absurd to even consider that creationism is something valid as a viewpoint. it's as much a valid viewpoint as a madmen saying that unicorns exist at the end of the street.
@transtlantic So, since you seem to know so much about creationism, I take it you've researched it? Studied the actual arguments and evidence provided?
Reading forums where like-minded people preach to the choir and quote-mine doesn't count.
@transtlantic Interesting to find out you've debunked theories that not even cosmologists (which I believe are more credible in their field than you would be) have been able to directly answer.
I'm curious to hear your take on the Big Bang. Care to elaborate here?
@transtlantic Creationism encompasses the origins of the entire universe.
If you're wanting to get into abiogenesis theories, then that's an even bigger surprise that you've been able to reconcile all the aberrant theories and debunk any other non-materialist theories.
I'd be very interested to hear these laid out, if you would be so kind.
Unlike you, I enjoy exploring the possibility that I am incorrect (as is the basis of true science). However, no argument yet has stood up to any scrutiny.
where did you took yoru definition for creationism? because that's not what is written in the dictionary.
here - creationism: a doctrine or theory holding that matter, the various forms of life, and the world were created by God out of nothing and usually in the way described in Genesis
"aberrant theories"? like what? "non-materialist"? that doesn't even make sense.
"true science"? no True scotsman logical fallacy. you have no authority in defining what is "true".
@transtlantic "matter... and the world" That pretty much includes the universe and everything in it.
Abiogenesis has quite a few theories out there as to how it happened. None of them agree on much, and none of them have come close to proving anything. Non-materialist simply means any abiogenesis theory that requires an outside force to spark life. You claim to have debunked all creationist theories, for that to be true, you must have proven abiogenesis. I'm waiting.
ofc there is empirical proof. are we going to see light bending EVERYTIME you have a body with a huge gravitational field? yes we are. therefore we have empirical proof. as the observation provides the proof.
"none of them agree"? pure bullshit. all agree with life from non-life. plus..this has nothing to do with evolution. creationism opposes evolution, not abiogenesis.
you keep mentioning "non-materialism"...funny crap.
@transtlantic I find it interesting how you can dismiss all uncertainty up until the point of evolution with a wave of your hand. Evolution has no bearing on the creation of life or the creation of the universe. Creation. Creationism. It's included.
Materialism is the view that does include evolution, yes, but also includes abiogenesis and the random and spontaneous creation of our universe.
As far as the empirical proof you state, that is purely based off of past observation.
@General4nubis uncertaint up till the point of evolution? what uncertainty?
I already presented the definition of creationism, which is disproven by evolution. and i already proved that the universe wasn't created. there is no creation. evidence for that? zero.
Materialism is ALL the possible views. considering that there is no such thing as "Non-material".
"spontaneous creation"? the universe wasn't created.
"purely based off of past observation"? observation = evidence.
@transtlantic I know you won't, but I'd love for you to take the time to read a book titled "The Emperor of Scent" - It has nothing to do with creationism or evolution, just a glimpse at the state of things in the scientific community. It might open your eyes to some things that are taken for granted.
Besides that, is that hosted online anywhere? If not, I don't have access to it but would like to read it.
@General4nubis i know you won't, but i'd like you to take the time to read a highschool book on science. it would be a nice start for your education on basic science.
"state of things in the scientific community"? well. i work inside the scientific community. i know what state it is in.
things that are taken for granted? i see DAILY evolution - AB resistance.
moron...i posted papers i searched at PUBMED. fuck... you really are JUST another uneducated dumbfuck cretard. LOLOLOL
"Tests of parallel evolution of reproductive isolation, trait-based assortative mating, and reproductive isolation by active selection have demonstrated that ecological speciation is a common means by which new species arise. "
Science. 2009 Feb 6;323(5915):737-41.
Evidence for ecological speciation and its alternative.
more?
"The increase in resistance of human pathogens to antimicrobial agents is one of the best-documented examples of evolution in action at the present time"
@transtlantic Isolation of subspecies leads to propagation and manifestation of genetic mutations because of higher likelihood for homozygous pairings. Genetic mutations, much more often than not, cause abnormalities, sickness, and/or death. I can't think of a single case where information has been proven to have been added due to a genetic mutation, which is required for evolution to work.
@General4nubis isolation of subspecies has nothing to do with genetic mutations. genetic mutations occur irrelevant of isolation. as seen with cancer and with direct observation of reproduction.
homozygous pairings increase in chance with isolation. it has nothing to do with mutations.
Genetic mutations actually are 90% neutral and less than 10% are either beneficial or deleterious - Molecular biology of the cell, 4th edition. want the pages? what determines benefit or deleterious is enviro
@transtlantic "no True scotsman logical fallacy." Nice try, but sorry that does not apply.
You are correct, I have no authority in defining true science. Science is defined by seeking knowledge through use of the scientific method. The scientific method requires that a hypothesis be refutable. If you're claiming your hypothesis to be irrefutable (which you were) that is against the scientific method, and thus, against science.
@General4nubis sorry, but it does apply. you did a no true scotsman logical fallacy. you claimed "true science". yet you have no say in what defines such.
I never said my hypothesis are irrefutable. i said my hypothesis - evolution is an undeniable fact - has been proven true because of empirical evidence.
and i can repeat this: can you explain AB resistance or vascular plant speciation without using evo theory?
@transtlantic Simply by saying "true ____" doesn't create such a fallacy. I wasn't claiming to define "true science," I was referring to science as is defined by the scientific method. I've already stated this in my previous post.
I'm beginning to wonder if you're even reading what I'm posting.
Saying evolution is an undeniable fact is exactly what I'm talking about. There are still many issues that are not yet explainable. It is supported, yes, but a fact it is not.
@transtlantic I've read them in entirety. Funny that you conveniently didn't notice the obvious strawman argument used to persuade against intelligent design in that trial. Read the arguments back-to-back.
"reading what you are posting? barely." Then you are a fool and have no desire to gain knowledge or further yourself. Knowledge is gained by testing that which we think is true. This is why I desire to see your evidence. We're through, have fun dogmatically worshiping your random-chance god.
@General4nubis "read what in entirety"? einstein quotes? doubt it. as you DID present quote mines, not full quotes in context.
strawman argument used during a trial? there wasn't any. i read the arguments back to back. ID was destroyed.
i can't gain knowledge with creationism. i've been asking you to use that crap in order to explain AB resistance or vascular plant speciation and nothing up till now.
randomness is a fact of existence. are you saying Down syndrome isn't random?
Argument 1 - Irreducible complexity is achieved when removing any part of a mechanism causes it to cease functioning.
Counter Argument to 1 - Irreducible complexity means that no sub-part of the mechanism can be removed and used for another purpose - however there is a purpose with a toxin delivery system!
This is a strawman argument, redefining I.C. into something that can be refuted instead of the original argument.
@transtlantic But besides this, I'm tired of wasting my time on you, a lost cause. You refuse to be a "free-thinker" and open your mind to possibilities contrary to your personal beliefs. I have no reason to continue this conversation, since no argument, regardless of how valid or strong, can possibly win you over. Goodbye.
you just go do what ALL cretards did at the Dover trial. you presented all of the crap you think supports cretardation. scientists looked at it and proved in a public space that ALL of them are sheer nonsense - lack of evidence, wrong, no support, physically impossible - a huge pile of magic thinking.
then scientists showed evidence for evolution - observation, experimentation, testing. basically a thing eveyr kid can learn at school.
@transtlantic And to further question your believe that all creationists are uneducated... I suppose you apply that label to Faraday, Planck, Kelvin, Mendel, and Einstein as well then?
@transtlantic Quote from Einstein: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."
There are more. Just wanted to throw that list at you to see exactly how dogmatic you really were.
How about this one for you - Why don't you explain speciation -in general- WITH evolutionary theory. Currently, there is a great rift between two theories on it, both with flaws.
Quote from Einstein: The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this., 1954
ofc there are many more quotes from Einstein, trust me, i know there are more atheist quotes from einstein.
"speciation in general"? lol... between two theories? no there is no rift.
@transtlantic Einstein was deistic, you can find this just about everywhere. He didn't believe in a personal god, nor the Bible (a la your quote), but he didn't believe the universe was an accident.
Punctuated equilibrium and Gradualism. Both attempt to explain speciation, however both fail to be very well supported by the empirical evidence.
@General4nubis Einstein was an atheist, possibly a pantheist. you can find this just about everywhere. i can produce more quotes like the one i posted here. he said plenty of times he was an atheist. but who cares about false appeals to authority or anecdotal claims?
He did die having to admit everything is a HUGE accident. Quantum mechanics remain quite a strong scientific field.
Punctuated equi and gradualism both explain speciation with the same mechanisms. both are supported by evidence.
@transtlantic I only name-dropped a few to refute your claim about creationists being uneducated. Your definition of creationism has since been made more clear to be more of an anti-evolution view than the more general title of creationism.
Punctuated equilibrium and gradualism cannot both apply - the mechanisms they use are mutually exclusive from each other and both have major flaws when tested empirically.
@General4nubis your name dropping was hilarious. only one was related to biology. ergo yes, most names you posted were uneducated on biology. "since been made more clear"? hardly. as i posted the dictionary definition. your personal opinions on what defines creationism matter jack shit.
Punctuated equilibrium and gradualism can both apply. the mechanisms they use are exactly the same. and both have amazing syncroning with what is seen and have been tested empirically.
P.E. - evolution that is characterized by long periods of stability in the characteristics of an organism and short periods of rapid change during which new forms appear especially from small subpopulations of the ancestral form in restricted parts of its geographic range
@transtlantic Gradualism is not reflected by the fossil record. The fossil record is extremely discontinuous, with examples of gradualism being the exception rather than the rule.
P.E. has been used as an argument -against- gradualism, as in
Prothero, D.R. 1992. Punctuated Equilibrium At Twenty: A Paleontological Perspective. Skeptic 1: 38-47.
Where Prothero states "most species appear suddenly in the fossil record and show no appreciable change for millions of years until their extinction."
@transtlantic Didn't realize physicians were authorities on paleontology, to the point that you disagree with more than 10 sources that I can readily cite right now on the fact that the fossil record is quite discontinuous.
@General4nubis you just cited a opinion article written by a geologist, not a paleontologist. you can cite them all and i'll prove you wrong. btw...all the papers i cited remain to be read by you and disproven.
For 13 years I haven't felt this powerless, sad and totaly angry at the same time as when in Homeworld I saw Kharak burning and was trying my best to save them all. I still sometimes open the old and tattered manual just to go through the pages, read the story and relive some of the best gaming moments of my life. HW was first game I ever purchased and it stayed with me so far as one of the most precious pieces I have in my collection. And this music simply proves why.
BadLilVaal 3 days ago
God I loved the beginning of homeworld. You didn't need characterization. You only had the resources for a handful of ships anyway and every single one of them was instantly important to you.
Pure story-through-gameplay element right there. Brilliant.
MarikBentusi 2 weeks ago
This makes me want to play Homeworld again.
dominekira 3 weeks ago
This music is just Awesome
kingporoto500 1 month ago
I remember restarting that mission at least 3 times ... trying to save as many as possible.
Great emotions.
DreamersLtd 1 month ago 8
I've heard several takes on this piece (though never on strings; rather ironic considering the title), and this remains my favorite version. The voices add a haunting quality that really set the tone for the gameplay.
redfive2008 1 month ago
The first moments of Homeworld....still amazing to this day.....had to save as many as you could...
TGNam1 1 month ago
All eyes were cast upward to the sky. The Scaffold -- the Moon herself -- was disintegrating into flame above them.
The world was coming to an end. Soon the fires would claim the planet as well. All that was left was to pray. And so they prayed.
"Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us."
"Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, grant us peace."
And then, the skies themselves caught aflame. And there was peace.
-Not my comment-
DemonicTable 1 month ago 3
Kharakian Genocide...Return to Hiigara....
sergihitox221 2 months ago
what game is this?
VerticalWit 2 months ago
@VerticalWit
Homeworld.
tHecOmMeNtErSrEtUrN 2 months ago
@VerticalWit Homeworld came out about 1999 one of the few really 3d real time strategies.
davolfman 1 month ago
@davolfman And the first
lukeskymac 1 week ago
Fuck technofags.
redfoxbennaton 2 months ago
I have trouble figuring out whether Iike the choral or the orchestral versions of Adagio better. They're both so heart renching and pure!
NCWC2 2 months ago in playlist Music Vids
Kharak is burning...
phocjame 3 months ago
I could say a lot of things right now, but ive decided to just say thank you, for helping me relive some of my most precious memories with this song.
:)
DarkMagician5705 3 months ago
@DarkMagician5705
Vietnam?
neos9898 1 month ago
Just ordered Homeworld yesterday, lost it a while back, this song makes me realize why I need it back in my life... :-)
Flabernat 3 months ago
go on...its a dead end of an action movie...use it to crash the watchers!and win the oscar awards...
frickesecam 3 months ago
This has to be one of the most beautiful pieces of music created, the moment when I first heard it in game still stick with me to this day. I could feel their pain as they watched Kharak burn...
ragnak5 3 months ago 3
this is great music. or maybe somebody prefer modern disco music???????????
technicmen 4 months ago
exiles will reunion they togeather and fight for them homeworld
AdamkoSkiFlo 4 months ago in playlist sasas
Kharak is burning T-T
jasra96 4 months ago 4
@jasra96 oh noes =(
niteshmurti 3 months ago
I don't know why but this song fills me up with a strange mix of emotions. The only thing I do know is that this is incredibly beautiful.
flawless7jr 4 months ago 3
The goosebumps, simply from reading the phrase (hearing it in the voice of the tactical advisor) "Hiigara. Our Home.", one can get is amazing. Also, the infamous mission 3... Manages to be more emotional than basically any other computer/video game to date, and the best thing is they didn't try too hard - it just hits the perfection spot.
PeTTs0n88 4 months ago 3
This was the first game I played that I would say was truly epic. The story, the score, the sense of scale and despair. I've still yet to play anything like it.
hyperdrachen 5 months ago
I like this but I still like Adagio in G minor better (I got the two mixed up)
1337Tazer 5 months ago
This is so fucking epic.
RPGgamerVII 5 months ago
The fact that someone at Relic came up with the idea to combine THIS piece and their already outstanding fiction really gives me hope for humanity. That they could pull so much emotion out of a game that at its heart really wasn't character-driven at all shows it's worth, especially against character powerhouses like Star Wars. The setting is infinite, the story is sound, and that feeling you get at the end of the final level...i cannot think of many things more compelling. "Hiigara. Our Home."
124thDragoon 5 months ago 34
When i have HW3 in my hands....this beautiful song will be start in my head (l)
yangalemoto 5 months ago in playlist Clasica
This is on my MP3 :3
Vaesyr 6 months ago
GOD GIVE ME HOMEWORLD 3
St9ler 6 months ago
@St9ler which god? 2800+ have been cataloged, but so far only humans are know to have produced computer games, epic like this one or otherwise
Ultra4 4 months ago
@Ultra4 'relic' one, smartass :P
St9ler 4 months ago
Your opinion sucks, mine is better.
Summary of the comments section.
Holycrudaflyingcow12 6 months ago
isnt that the song on platoon which repeats like every 1 or 2 scenes? or is it just me being retarded?
tanya1234hyde 6 months ago
@tanya1234hyde You're right, it is. Adagio for Strings is featured in a lot of pieces of media.
B1ll1amH 6 months ago
Everything's gone... There's nothing left!... Kharak is burning!...
LineManRT71 6 months ago 25
I plug in my headphones, turn this up to 9, and close my eyes. This is some of the most amazing music in gaming history. Thank you Samuel Barber, and thank you Relic entertainment.
Wiccantor 6 months ago
My life just started to make sense!
urzicah2002 6 months ago
If you love this game upvote this!!! we want HW3!!!!!
Petoj87 6 months ago
i came to this vid in all seriousness about the music, but you sir, Inaste666 have truly made my day! you are possibly the most contradictory person i have ever not met 0_o. you evidently try to be sophisticated with your complaints (not going into detail because i only looked at the argument with pondrthis) for what i would call attention seeking , your spelling is worse than an illiterate five day year old child, and on top of that you're a fatalist! and that last one is my job :p
LSFDevastator 7 months ago
@LSFDevastator however, i cant disagree with your channel description. i would say that i am my own definition of a realist, that we are so bound be rules, regulations and expectations that we dont have any more time to do something different, or to live a real life. and the sad thing is that im thinking like this at the age of 14.
LSFDevastator 7 months ago
@LSFDevastator Yeah, you are LIKE a 14 year old, at least. Don't try to mimic these morons ("smart" words?), be yourself.
khestal 6 months ago
@LSFDevastator Don't stop, your destiny is yours to choose. You can't control where you were born, the education you were indoctrinated with, the steps that have lead you to here. But from here you do have a choice, start living now! Make life what ever you want to make of it, so that on your last breath, you will have no regrets. Life is so short, I have wasted so much of it already, the rest of my time will be just that, my time.
UltraEpicLoser 5 months ago
Man, can't you two do us a common courtesy and take this somewhere private?
TomottoSoup 7 months ago
What the shit is this conversation here? You're both spouting nonsense as if it's some intelligent discourse, but it's nothing but stoner hogwash riddled with spelling and punctuation errors.
Also, the vocal version of this piece is itself called "Agnus Dei", it's not just the lyrics from "Agnus Dei". The arrangement was done by the composer himself, if I'm not mistaken.
pondrthis 7 months ago 2
@pondrthis Stoner hogwash? Oh i see, so you're too incompetent too think further then the whores you see and the bullshit you follow on TV, and so you spread mindless comments to prove your incompetence? Get out and come back when you have something usefull to say, at least one is interrested in.
Inaste666 7 months ago
@Inaste666 Yes, stoner hogwash. People interested in answering questions rather than asking them don't waste time on things like that. "iv'e" got more important things "too" do "then" wonder about "filosofy" out of "interrest"... things like my job. Which, by the way, actually works toward "usefull" improvement of the lives of my fellow men and women.
PS I don't even get network TV here, let alone cable. And that whore is my wife, thanks.
pondrthis 7 months ago
@pondrthis So thinking about phylosofy and being on an open internet source discussing it with other people, what it was actually invented for, isn't right, but as long as you can spread bullshit towards people who do, just to draw all attention to yourself is? Dude, you make no sence at all. You might be, as far as i know, one of the most pathetic persons iv'e ever met. Go to a place that is interrested in your self-centered attention sucking bullcrap, because you're just not that interresting
Inaste666 7 months ago
@Inaste666
>phylosofy
hhahahhahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhah
pumpkinsoul12 7 months ago
@Inaste666 Oh my god, I sense butthurt, and also, lrn2spell
jaspertjie 7 months ago
@jaspertjie You and him are one of many reasons why i hate human beings. Nothing more then idiotic, pathetic creatures who, instead of acquire knowledge, like to do nothing more then trying to make stupid attempts to make fun of them. No, you little shit. I'm not butthurt. I'm trying to make a point, and through text you can't see the meaning behind sentences. It's like not being able to read sarcasm on paper. Now get out, i'm done with idiots like you.
Inaste666 7 months ago
@Inaste666 If you want to sound coherent and "smart" (at least as smart as the average person), try picking up a dictionary and review each and every one of the words you typed. How you look is how you get treated.
khestal 6 months ago
@khestal Well not everyone is english. ''How you look is how you get treated''. So i started a nice conversation with someone here and get cursed at and all the sudden i have no life? No, you guys are the dumbasses here. Selfish bastards, go get stabbed or something, im done here.
Inaste666 6 months ago
@Inaste666 No, you're not.
khestal 6 months ago
@pondrthis
I think its funny you're the only person here with a comment relating to the video.
LgndryThndr 7 months ago
This video makes me wonder, you know if there is anyone out there. Why are we here, isn't that just the greatest question, our existence what does it mean? Do we have a purpose?
UltimateWATCHER2 7 months ago
@UltimateWATCHER2 Iv'e read a lot of different books about life and filosofy, but we all will know there will never be a true answer to that. Maybe it's for ourselves, to acomplish as much as we can in life to get a fullfilled feeling when we are awaiting death at the end. For some it is to follow a god, for some life means freedom. But iv'e stopped asking what life means for us. Iv'e asked myself what it means for myself. And in the end, that question is harder...
Inaste666 7 months ago
@Inaste666 Nice response. You can make the answer even more baffling by wondering if truth is not actually a constant, which I think is true, for example our purpose may change as life goes on. Maybe we have an ultimate purpose with each moment rather than a single long term goal. For me biodiversity and environmental issues and how the capital system makes them worse is the biggest imperative right now: We have killed over a million Iraqi's under the same auspices we've killed 94% of the ocean.
vapourmile 7 months ago
@vapourmile True, yet for myself i find it hard to ''care'' about others. You see i'm not dumb, not telling im a genius either, but in my mind it's hard to feel sorry for someone else, because i gave up on humanity. Sounds harsh, but i grew a sligh affection for humans. There are some exeptions, that's why i try to have these conversations, to reach out for them. Im more of a loner, that's why in life i try to make as much decissions for myself as possible. Maybe i'm just selfish
Inaste666 7 months ago
@vapourmile (sorry i wasn't quite dont yet)... But when you are like me and spend a lot of time alone, you start to wonder about your life. I often make decissions that have benefit for myself, but when thinking about the decission i also wonder how the other choice might have changed my life. From small parts from the decission to huge parts later in my life. Ultimately, i find myself just a watcher of a long movie within i play the head-part, i can't control what will happen, i can only think.
Inaste666 7 months ago
@Inaste666 Ok, cool, although it is pretty difficult to respond to deep stuff like this from with a 500 character text box! : ) One thing I noticed though friend is citing your own lack of appreciation for other people? You see, appreciation is the basis of all enjoyment of life... starting with appreciating and respecting your own feelings... then appreciating we can sit here in comfort relative ease thanks to the hard work of others. Think what life would be like if Nobody supported you?
vapourmile 7 months ago
@vapourmile Well, i have a big social circle, so it's not that i don't have friends. But i do ''filter'' my friends. I don't approve those who do not have standard knowledge and lack the skill of intelligence. The point that i don't like people, is because i see these days how stupid they can be, with an economy built apon MTV and materialism. I constructed my life in the way that i do not need support from people. I'm more of a solist... And all i need to accomplish my life, is to be left alone
Inaste666 7 months ago
@Inaste666 You do not need support from other people? That is surprising... how did you manage that? I do appreciate what you mean about TV diets of reality TV and news programs that seem almost purpose built to distract people from thinking about genuine causes. I can also see what you mean about filtering people... I like to be friendly and egalitarian as I can but I have had to dump friendships that are too hard to manage for what they're worth.
vapourmile 7 months ago
@vapourmile Well, i can live my life without depending on other people. I set up a straight line in life that i only have to follow. Other people belong to the sub-version of my life, wich include family, friends, going out etc. As long as i stick to my plan, nobody will interfere or try to change the way i live, because if there is one thing i hate about people, is that they consistantly want to stick their nose into my life. That's why i dont have to depend on support. So, what's your story?
Inaste666 7 months ago
Trolls....following me around because i proved they are uneducated tards who believe in "God did it"...
lolol
transtlantic 7 months ago
Did anyone notice the subwoofers on the Taiidan Scout? They arent subs i know, they just look like it :P
Cypher3212 8 months ago
@Cypher3212 the taiidan like to bring hip hop to every reach of space lol
duplexjam 8 months ago
i can imagane the people onbored the mothership crying
it makes me wan't to cry to this is worth 9000 stars
when i discoverd who did that i wen't into a hunting spree destroyed as many of them
as i could :"( darn taiidan
pivotnick1 8 months ago
God... I loved and still love this game.
solus48 8 months ago
Alpha state [ON]
andradetitan 8 months ago
If you ever need to reaffirm the belief that people are stupid, then come on down to the Youtube comments section. There, you'll see people who just won't walk away from a retarded argument because somehow proving you're right over the internet makes them feel good.
Squidpus 8 months ago
this was originally in platoon :3 and im a 17 year old young man and this song brings tears to my eyes and the woman im in love with can play this on the viola :) my life = complete
countedscars 8 months ago 3
@countedscars Not entirely, you still have to tie the knot with her first ;) THEN it's complete!
JinD07 8 months ago
@JinD07 :D i plan on it!
countedscars 8 months ago
F C: No one's left... Everything's gone... Kharak is burning.
F I: Kharak is being consumed by a firestorm... The Scaffold has been destroyed... All orbital facilities destroyed... Significant debris ring in low Kharak orbit... Receiving no communication from anywhere in the system; not even beacons.
F C: Wait, on the Maintenance frequency. I'm getting a signal from the Cryo-Tray system in orbit. One of them is suffering a Major Malfunction.
F I :The Cryo-Trays are under attack, Defend them!
Talon1124 9 months ago 21
@Talon1124 I can't believe that you remembered these lines. Brings back the memories of that scene. :)
GoldurianProductions 8 months ago
@Talon1124 i saved all 6 cryo trays :P
i was disappointed when i realised they didnt include a sound file says says "six hundred thousands people saved"
i suppose i was too awesome for the game :(
volound 7 months ago
I think the more important question is why is there an argument about God in the comment section of song from a video game?
This discussion has no place here as it has no relevance to the video. Both sides arguing about this topic are making themselves look like asses, by having an argument in a place where the topic of Homeworld (aka one of the best space based video games in the world) should be discussed.
CultistOfDagon 9 months ago
If someone has proven that they are right, it is perfectly acceptable for them to go into an argument with a "presupposition that they are already correct."
God can neither be proven true nor false, therefore he has no connections to reality whatsoever and should be dismissed as an arbitrary concept. Therefore, creationism is also an arbitrary concept disconnected from reality. Therefore, Christians are irrational morons. Rational philosophy for the win. The scientists can thank me later.
Amaroq64 9 months ago
OMG i want to start playing homeworld again now! What a game. Thsi music is great. I found it really hard to find the vocal version so big thank-you to kilmindaro2 for uploading it.
Snip3rmonkey 9 months ago
Vote up if you made a sad face when your home planet was destroyed
skreppeknekker 9 months ago 5
Love the Agnus Dei version of Barber's soaringly beautiful piece; but this performance is waaaaay too fast for my tastes. Comes in best at about 8 minutes IMO.
I loved Homeworld - happy memories :-)
GlowWorm1962 9 months ago
And creationists are not dumb, they question their existence just like any other questioning human being.
fallofman1337 9 months ago
It's not good to judge someone for their beliefs or ideas, everyone has their opinion. You can't say someone is right and the other is wrong, it's just theory.
fallofman1337 9 months ago
@fallofman1337
that's just false... ideas or beliefs are one thing. FACTS are always the same no matter your beliefs or ideas.
theories are supported hypothesis, validated hypothesis. meaning: fact
creationists ARE dumb because they can't understand science, to fucking dumb.
questioning existince doesn't mean that making up crap is an answer.
human origin is explained by understanding evolution theory, not religious induced crap.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic I see what your saying, you think all creationists are dumb. IMHO Creationists today are just misguided by organized religions, not all creationists are dumb, its just the majority.
fallofman1337 9 months ago
@transtlantic everyone can see just by looking at the way you're writing that you can't be that smart: "LOLOL" ehm ok... and the way you insult others.
if you would stop being so aggressive towords others one might believe you
4v3ng3 9 months ago
@4v3ng3
your reply was to a post where not one single "LOL" was written by me.
plus... i stated the fact that creationists are dumb and DO produce a ton of imaginary crap.
this is not an insult, you idiot.
my agressive writing has a point. it stops cretards from writing buy bull induced shit.
i am far smarter than you, no doubt about that. because you failed to notice that the science i present is quite sound and smart. the insults are entirly irrelevant.
"believe me"? lol... fuck that.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic "dumb" "crap" "you idiot" "bull induced shit" you sound like an 12 year old, sorry.
and second: HAHAHAHAHA ... well, i laughed at you :P :*
the reason for that is: "because you failed to notice...(and so on)". well my dear, i didn't failed! I am an atheist too you know, i don't believe in gods nor myth just like you!
hehe, pay a little attention if you're so smart: i never doubted you so please.
4v3ng3 9 months ago
@4v3ng3
i already told you the insults have a point. it stops the bible thumper from producing mantra like religious comments.
the only ones who sound like a 12 year old are the ones who believe in cretardation.
i never said you doubted me, idiot.
if you pay a little attention, if you're so smart, you would have noticed that you presented a mute argument.
now fuck off and stop bothering me.
listen to the song. and feel nostalgic.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic moot*
Enkazed 9 months ago
@DishrackDarwin you are just all pissed because i proved that you are JUST another uneducated creationist troll! LOLOL
watch?v=PlkHkdI5wC0
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic
you are annoyed because i proved that a person with an education can easily prove that you are a dumb creationist! LOLOLOL
sucks to be you, retarded YEC! LOLOL
watch?v=PlkHkdI5wC0
transtlantic 9 months ago
All of you are stupid. Now shut the fuck up and enjoy the awesome music.
n3cr0fil3 9 months ago 88
@DishrackDarwin espose me? lol, how?
you are JUST another creationist troll with no education obsessed with all those educated people that prove you wrong! lolol
watch?v=PlkHkdI5wC0
WHY PEOPLE LAUGH AT CREATIONISTS - great series.
people don't even need to watch vids in order to understand that you are a moronic cretard troll! LOLOL
transtlantic 9 months ago
@DishrackDarwin LOL you are the one that is mad, stupid and showing that you are a joke!
you are obsessed because a physician (me) proved that creationism is a pile of horse crap promoted by religious nutcases, bible thumpers, ignorant uneducated morons like you!
LOLOLOLOL
sucks to be you, retard.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@DishrackDarwin
watch this to see how fucking stupid dishrack is! LOLOL
watch?v=PlkHkdI5wC0
WATCH all vids showing how stupid all creationists are! LOLOL
the WHOLE series. here: WHY PEOPLE LAUGH AT CREATIONISTS?
transtlantic 9 months ago
@DishrackDarwin you sure look mad (after all you ARE a cretard) and you are clearly obsessed with me. you stalked me here, troll.
how am i trolling when you are the one writing crap and stalking me here? lolol
"when they do it back"? lol... there you go projecting again, cretard troll! lolol
your capacity to expose anyone as a fake is the same as your capacity to prove god's existence! LOLOL which is a capacity at ZERO! LOLOL
transtlantic 9 months ago
@DishrackDarwin
youtube.com/watch?v=PlkHkdI5wC0
proof that you are JUST another cretard annoyed at a doctor who proves you wrong!
lolol
transtlantic 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DishrackDarwin i am a doctor.
watch to see how ridiculous and ignorant you are!
proof that you are JUST another ignorant uneducated creationist! lolol
watch?v=PlkHkdI5wC0
transtlantic 9 months ago
@DishrackDarwin
you really showed how stupid you are! lolol
watch?v=PlkHkdI5wC0
transtlantic 9 months ago
@DishrackDarwin I am a doctor. and you are JUST another uneducated ignorant religious fundamentalist mad at me, obsessed with me, because i proved that
Creationism is equal to claiming that Honey is made out of nowhere by blue fairies!
LOLOLOL
sucks to be you, cretard
transtlantic 9 months ago
HAHAH you think I am a creationist!, man...your a sad individual....crocs....that is all.Good bye i gonna enjoy the song now..
BladeValant546 9 months ago
Philos Trans R Soc Lond B Biol Sci. 2010 Jun 12;365(1547):1717-33.
Speciation genetics: current status and evolving approaches.
transtlantic 9 months ago
Transtlantic you are a jerk, you really are.....need to grow up..Been watching your discussions and you been uncivil, flaming and border line trolling. You have no shown traits of a person with a Masters, all you shown is typical Internet Eisensteinism and quoting typical rhetoric with out the understanding of observed natural process. There are plenty of creatures that have remained unchanged, there are unknowns in the natural cycle of life. You give us intellectuals a bad name...sheesh.
BladeValant546 9 months ago
@BladeValant546 a jerk? lol... what kind of retarded tactic is that? a straw man now? lolol
uncivil? doesn't disprove any of the evidence presented. border line trolling? hardly.
what kind of traits does a person with a Masters require? Lol...
without the understanding of observed natural process? LOL...moron...i already asked you this more than once: try explain AB resistance or vascular plant speciation w/out using evolution theory.
i can explain it WITH evo theory. not without. can you?
transtlantic 9 months ago
@BladeValant546
"plenty of creatures that have remained unchanged"? pure bullshit. all life forms change. it's a fact of existence. "Unknowns"? lord of the gaps is hardly an argument. i give intelectuals a new boost. as my generation of intelectuals is tired of ignorant uneducated fuck ups like you.
transtlantic 9 months ago
If only people understood difference between science and philosophy...sigh Percpetions of reality is based on our current perceptions to say somethign beyond those perceptions is putting faith in something and strictly assumption. Realist ftw....
BladeValant546 9 months ago
Best game ever, best music ever. I weep for the species.
breuemic000 9 months ago
The most beautiful piece of classical music... that could not get anymore beautiful.... Just got more beautiful.
RocketRodder 9 months ago
homeworld how i miss you
Nmisling 9 months ago
Fleet command to all strike craft, Engage and destroy the ships attacking the cryo-trays. Salvage teams, prepare for combat reclaimation of any wreckage of value. All hands, actions stations, this is not a drill, repeat, this is not a drill. Hibernation personnel, prepare to receive the cryo-trays.
Talon1124 9 months ago 3
nice, not that fussed about the pics, i was just looking for this version so thanks for the upload :D
ed728i 9 months ago
so good song
miscroft 10 months ago
@DishrackDarwin
amazing comment, cretard.
nice of you to stalk me here. tell people why do you stalk me, you uneducated creationist.
lolol
transtlantic 10 months ago
@transtlantic Why is it that no youtube video is safe from comments like these? Yours. His. Both.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
i love the music, i was searching for the soundtrack of the game, because i was remembering how i liked this game and in particular the music. the cretard followed me, stalked me and posted his usual stupidity. i replied back.
stating the fact that all cretards are uneducated fucks, is no problem at all.
i hope you enjoy Agnus Dei as much as i do.
take care
i like the fact that everyone can voice their thoughts on youtube, no one forced you to read any of this.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic That's the problem. Overarching generalizations that are unfounded and uncalled for. Sure, he was being an idiot. Doesn't excuse your statements.
For any one party to claim that the opposing viewpoint's representatives are absolutely wrong and have no foundation in knowledge or wisdom at all is absurd, arrogant, and ignorant.
Intelligent discussion requires both sides not operate under the presupposition that they are already correct.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis doesn't excuse your statements? why would i need to excuse myself from calling creationists a bunch of uneducated fucks? it's a fact what i am stating.
wait...opposing viewpoint? creationism IS absolutely wrong and has NO foundation in knowledge or wisdom.
so it is absurd to even consider that creationism is something valid as a viewpoint. it's as much a valid viewpoint as a madmen saying that unicorns exist at the end of the street.
i think you need to get an education.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic So, since you seem to know so much about creationism, I take it you've researched it? Studied the actual arguments and evidence provided?
Reading forums where like-minded people preach to the choir and quote-mine doesn't count.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
wait...researched it? why would i need to research fantasy crap?
studied the actual arguments? i debunked all of them. easily.
evidence provided? for creationism? WHERE? that's the point, dumbfuck. THERE IS NO evidence supporting cretardation.
reading forums? i am a physician (residency) and i have a masters degree on epidemiology.
I KNOW that creationism is wrong.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Interesting to find out you've debunked theories that not even cosmologists (which I believe are more credible in their field than you would be) have been able to directly answer.
I'm curious to hear your take on the Big Bang. Care to elaborate here?
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
cosmologists? nothing to do with biology. creationism is an ideology focusing on life, ergo nothing to do with cosmology.
take on the big bang? lol...what the FUCK does that have to do with biology?
lolol...fuck off kid, try get an education.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Creationism encompasses the origins of the entire universe.
If you're wanting to get into abiogenesis theories, then that's an even bigger surprise that you've been able to reconcile all the aberrant theories and debunk any other non-materialist theories.
I'd be very interested to hear these laid out, if you would be so kind.
Unlike you, I enjoy exploring the possibility that I am incorrect (as is the basis of true science). However, no argument yet has stood up to any scrutiny.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
where did you took yoru definition for creationism? because that's not what is written in the dictionary.
here - creationism: a doctrine or theory holding that matter, the various forms of life, and the world were created by God out of nothing and usually in the way described in Genesis
"aberrant theories"? like what? "non-materialist"? that doesn't even make sense.
"true science"? no True scotsman logical fallacy. you have no authority in defining what is "true".
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic "matter... and the world" That pretty much includes the universe and everything in it.
Abiogenesis has quite a few theories out there as to how it happened. None of them agree on much, and none of them have come close to proving anything. Non-materialist simply means any abiogenesis theory that requires an outside force to spark life. You claim to have debunked all creationist theories, for that to be true, you must have proven abiogenesis. I'm waiting.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
ofc there is empirical proof. are we going to see light bending EVERYTIME you have a body with a huge gravitational field? yes we are. therefore we have empirical proof. as the observation provides the proof.
"none of them agree"? pure bullshit. all agree with life from non-life. plus..this has nothing to do with evolution. creationism opposes evolution, not abiogenesis.
you keep mentioning "non-materialism"...funny crap.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic I find it interesting how you can dismiss all uncertainty up until the point of evolution with a wave of your hand. Evolution has no bearing on the creation of life or the creation of the universe. Creation. Creationism. It's included.
Materialism is the view that does include evolution, yes, but also includes abiogenesis and the random and spontaneous creation of our universe.
As far as the empirical proof you state, that is purely based off of past observation.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis uncertaint up till the point of evolution? what uncertainty?
I already presented the definition of creationism, which is disproven by evolution. and i already proved that the universe wasn't created. there is no creation. evidence for that? zero.
Materialism is ALL the possible views. considering that there is no such thing as "Non-material".
"spontaneous creation"? the universe wasn't created.
"purely based off of past observation"? observation = evidence.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic "none of them agree" + "on much" - Don't quote mine me.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
you had no problems in quote mining Einstein.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic There are many, many quotes I can post to support what I've stated, but as we've agreed - this line of discussion is fruitless.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis you can quote as long as you want. fact is... none of those quotes are evidence for cretardation.
you are right... i already know you are JUST another loser, uneducated ignorant moronic delusional cretard.
if you need evidence for speciation. here is it:
Speciation in Plants, berkeley, quite a good source of information.
Plant Speciation, Science. 2007 August 17; 317(5840): 910–914.
more?
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic I know you won't, but I'd love for you to take the time to read a book titled "The Emperor of Scent" - It has nothing to do with creationism or evolution, just a glimpse at the state of things in the scientific community. It might open your eyes to some things that are taken for granted.
Besides that, is that hosted online anywhere? If not, I don't have access to it but would like to read it.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis i know you won't, but i'd like you to take the time to read a highschool book on science. it would be a nice start for your education on basic science.
"state of things in the scientific community"? well. i work inside the scientific community. i know what state it is in.
things that are taken for granted? i see DAILY evolution - AB resistance.
moron...i posted papers i searched at PUBMED. fuck... you really are JUST another uneducated dumbfuck cretard. LOLOLOL
transtlantic 9 months ago
@General4nubis
"None showed the panselectionist prediction of gradually evolving to track
their changing environment." - prothero claims regarind mammal evolution.
funny... Harvard, UCLA, berkley, and countless other institutions where biology is studied and taught have a list of mammals gradually evolving...
no wonder Dover trial was so easy.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@General4nubis
"Tests of parallel evolution of reproductive isolation, trait-based assortative mating, and reproductive isolation by active selection have demonstrated that ecological speciation is a common means by which new species arise. "
Science. 2009 Feb 6;323(5915):737-41.
Evidence for ecological speciation and its alternative.
more?
"The increase in resistance of human pathogens to antimicrobial agents is one of the best-documented examples of evolution in action at the present time"
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Isolation of subspecies leads to propagation and manifestation of genetic mutations because of higher likelihood for homozygous pairings. Genetic mutations, much more often than not, cause abnormalities, sickness, and/or death. I can't think of a single case where information has been proven to have been added due to a genetic mutation, which is required for evolution to work.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis isolation of subspecies has nothing to do with genetic mutations. genetic mutations occur irrelevant of isolation. as seen with cancer and with direct observation of reproduction.
homozygous pairings increase in chance with isolation. it has nothing to do with mutations.
Genetic mutations actually are 90% neutral and less than 10% are either beneficial or deleterious - Molecular biology of the cell, 4th edition. want the pages? what determines benefit or deleterious is enviro
transtlantic 9 months ago
@General4nubis
Down syndrome - an example where genetic mutation added information to the genome.
Sickle cell disease in an environment with endemic malaria - increased chance of survival for those who have the mutation.
Polyploid mutation and hybridization in plants (information is doubled) - cause speciation in plants.
more examples?
i already told you are JUST another uneducated dumbfuck creationist. i have an education, you don't.
seriously...fuck off. you lost.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic "no True scotsman logical fallacy." Nice try, but sorry that does not apply.
You are correct, I have no authority in defining true science. Science is defined by seeking knowledge through use of the scientific method. The scientific method requires that a hypothesis be refutable. If you're claiming your hypothesis to be irrefutable (which you were) that is against the scientific method, and thus, against science.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis sorry, but it does apply. you did a no true scotsman logical fallacy. you claimed "true science". yet you have no say in what defines such.
I never said my hypothesis are irrefutable. i said my hypothesis - evolution is an undeniable fact - has been proven true because of empirical evidence.
and i can repeat this: can you explain AB resistance or vascular plant speciation without using evo theory?
nope.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Simply by saying "true ____" doesn't create such a fallacy. I wasn't claiming to define "true science," I was referring to science as is defined by the scientific method. I've already stated this in my previous post.
I'm beginning to wonder if you're even reading what I'm posting.
Saying evolution is an undeniable fact is exactly what I'm talking about. There are still many issues that are not yet explainable. It is supported, yes, but a fact it is not.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis simply saying "true", does create such fallacy. go look it up.
reading what you are posting? barely. most of it sounds like the rantings of JUST another uneducated cretard.
"many issues"? like what? Evolution is a fact. i can prove it is a fact. and you can't disprove it is a fact.
go read the Dover trial notes.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic I've read them in entirety. Funny that you conveniently didn't notice the obvious strawman argument used to persuade against intelligent design in that trial. Read the arguments back-to-back.
"reading what you are posting? barely." Then you are a fool and have no desire to gain knowledge or further yourself. Knowledge is gained by testing that which we think is true. This is why I desire to see your evidence. We're through, have fun dogmatically worshiping your random-chance god.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis "read what in entirety"? einstein quotes? doubt it. as you DID present quote mines, not full quotes in context.
strawman argument used during a trial? there wasn't any. i read the arguments back to back. ID was destroyed.
i can't gain knowledge with creationism. i've been asking you to use that crap in order to explain AB resistance or vascular plant speciation and nothing up till now.
randomness is a fact of existence. are you saying Down syndrome isn't random?
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic As for the strawman argument:
Argument 1 - Irreducible complexity is achieved when removing any part of a mechanism causes it to cease functioning.
Counter Argument to 1 - Irreducible complexity means that no sub-part of the mechanism can be removed and used for another purpose - however there is a purpose with a toxin delivery system!
This is a strawman argument, redefining I.C. into something that can be refuted instead of the original argument.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
argument 1 - IC achieved? there is no such thing in nature.
ergo counter argument 1 is quite valid and not a strawman. there is no redifining of IC on the counter argument. zero redifinition.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic But besides this, I'm tired of wasting my time on you, a lost cause. You refuse to be a "free-thinker" and open your mind to possibilities contrary to your personal beliefs. I have no reason to continue this conversation, since no argument, regardless of how valid or strong, can possibly win you over. Goodbye.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis you confuse being a free thinker with being JUST another uneducated cretard who believes in whatever crap someone sold to him.
i accept ALL contrary possibilities, i accept NO possibility as proven without evidence for.
you failed to present one single valid argument or even strong. plus... anyone reading my sources can easily see where you fail.
another:
Sexual selection and speciation in mammals, butterflies and spiders.
Proc Biol Sci. 2002 November 22; 269(1507): 2309–2316.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@General4nubis
you just go do what ALL cretards did at the Dover trial. you presented all of the crap you think supports cretardation. scientists looked at it and proved in a public space that ALL of them are sheer nonsense - lack of evidence, wrong, no support, physically impossible - a huge pile of magic thinking.
then scientists showed evidence for evolution - observation, experimentation, testing. basically a thing eveyr kid can learn at school.
then cretards whined, just like you did.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic To answer your question, Vascular plant speciation - are you referring to Tragopodon/Goatsbeard?
General4nubis 9 months ago
@transtlantic And to further question your believe that all creationists are uneducated... I suppose you apply that label to Faraday, Planck, Kelvin, Mendel, and Einstein as well then?
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
faraday, planck, kelvin, mendel? lol...
sure...let's use aristotles and disprove general relativity as well! LOLOL
or why not use Einstein to try debunk Hardy Weinberg equilibrium? LOLOLOL
moron... do you use physicists claims in order to disprove BIOLOGY? LOLOL
Mendel? lol... not even alive when DNA was found.
Einstein wasn't a creationist, and not even a theist.
kid... try explain VASCULAR PLANT speciation w/out using evolution theory.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Quote from Einstein: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."
There are more. Just wanted to throw that list at you to see exactly how dogmatic you really were.
How about this one for you - Why don't you explain speciation -in general- WITH evolutionary theory. Currently, there is a great rift between two theories on it, both with flaws.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
Quote from Einstein: The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this., 1954
ofc there are many more quotes from Einstein, trust me, i know there are more atheist quotes from einstein.
"speciation in general"? lol... between two theories? no there is no rift.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Einstein was deistic, you can find this just about everywhere. He didn't believe in a personal god, nor the Bible (a la your quote), but he didn't believe the universe was an accident.
Punctuated equilibrium and Gradualism. Both attempt to explain speciation, however both fail to be very well supported by the empirical evidence.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis Einstein was an atheist, possibly a pantheist. you can find this just about everywhere. i can produce more quotes like the one i posted here. he said plenty of times he was an atheist. but who cares about false appeals to authority or anecdotal claims?
He did die having to admit everything is a HUGE accident. Quantum mechanics remain quite a strong scientific field.
Punctuated equi and gradualism both explain speciation with the same mechanisms. both are supported by evidence.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic I only name-dropped a few to refute your claim about creationists being uneducated. Your definition of creationism has since been made more clear to be more of an anti-evolution view than the more general title of creationism.
Punctuated equilibrium and gradualism cannot both apply - the mechanisms they use are mutually exclusive from each other and both have major flaws when tested empirically.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis your name dropping was hilarious. only one was related to biology. ergo yes, most names you posted were uneducated on biology. "since been made more clear"? hardly. as i posted the dictionary definition. your personal opinions on what defines creationism matter jack shit.
Punctuated equilibrium and gradualism can both apply. the mechanisms they use are exactly the same. and both have amazing syncroning with what is seen and have been tested empirically.
want the evidence?
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Yes, I'd love to see your evidence on that, as I know with a good bit of certainty that they cannot work together.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis
they cannot work together? ofc they can.
P.E. - evolution that is characterized by long periods of stability in the characteristics of an organism and short periods of rapid change during which new forms appear especially from small subpopulations of the ancestral form in restricted parts of its geographic range
in the long run gradualism can include P.E.
as you can see they can both work together.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Gradualism is not reflected by the fossil record. The fossil record is extremely discontinuous, with examples of gradualism being the exception rather than the rule.
P.E. has been used as an argument -against- gradualism, as in
Prothero, D.R. 1992. Punctuated Equilibrium At Twenty: A Paleontological Perspective. Skeptic 1: 38-47.
Where Prothero states "most species appear suddenly in the fossil record and show no appreciable change for millions of years until their extinction."
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis gradualism is reflected by the fossil record. go to a natural history museum. all there.
extremely discontinuous? no it isn't. examples of gradualism are actually the rule. the exceptions are non-existent. that's why it remains a fact.
P.E. has been used as an argument against gradualism. and yet failed.
Prothero is a geologist, not a biologist. Prothero's paper is utter failure. i can debunk all of it. do you have the time?
Most species don't appear sudently in the record.
transtlantic 9 months ago
@transtlantic Didn't realize physicians were authorities on paleontology, to the point that you disagree with more than 10 sources that I can readily cite right now on the fact that the fossil record is quite discontinuous.
General4nubis 9 months ago
@General4nubis you just cited a opinion article written by a geologist, not a paleontologist. you can cite them all and i'll prove you wrong. btw...all the papers i cited remain to be read by you and disproven.
want more? sure:
Speciation durations and Pleistocene ef