How It All Ends: Get What You Want (Pt 3 of 3)

[QuietOneOnLine]

How much money would have prvented the ICE AGE.... Global INSTANT COOLING?

There is NOT enought money in the world to STOP Mother nature!

[Srsapsalot]

If this "GW" dose not happen the boy cried wolf again and again the town ppl turn back mad.. what happends Wonderingmind if the wolf keeps comeing around and when and lets hope it dont but if it were to come and ppl just dont fall for it and it gets here? If the "egg heads" are kinda sure about it they need to look into it more right? oh and with the oil spill in the gulf thats kinda like the testing of it all right? i mean something of that size surely can not be go good right?

[thinkingguy87]

So......bluster through it, instead of thinking through the problem.

[BlueIcesevensix]

It's no longer called Global Warming, it called Climate Change, just like Global Cooling. What will it be called next.

CLIMATE CHANGE not GLOBAL WARMING. The name change 3 times.

[thinkingguy87]

@BlueIcesevensix

I'd suggest you look about 6 minutes into the video....

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

You are very choosey about your credible sources arent you.

They seem to be the opposite of credible in my opinion.

My sources have an unmatched accuracy. But you would not be able to view them as credible because you have been well conditioned.

They also warned about this global warming scam way before you came onto the scene.

Jordan Maxwell, Alex Jones, David Icke, Micheal Tsarion- to name a few.

Check em out.

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux

Wow. You clearly have missed the point of the orginial videos wrt the credibility scale.

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 I think it is you that has missed the point my friend.

Do you really think the sources he lists are credible?

Have you done any research into these bodies-With an open and honest mindset?

Thought not!

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux

You mean, the NAS and the AAAS, the only organisation to do self-checks? I think so.

You're listing individuals.

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 I'm listing sources of information that dont get sanitised by the corporate system.

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux

Of course. The infalliable argument: everything that doesn't imeediately fit with your point of view has been co-opted by a shadowy group of conspirators!

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 Most people dont want to see the bleedin obvious.They condition us to be that way.

If you are too lazy to seek out the truth, you will have to rely on the information spoonfed to you by the powers that be.

These people plan decades in advance and that is 100% provable.

Carry on with your head in the sand, that is your choice.

I promise you - one day soon you will have to face the truth and it will probably be too late by then.

The emperor really does have no clothes!

Wakey Wakey

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux so, bluster through the problem instead of thinking through it.

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 As far as man made GW is concerned there is no problem.

Its a hoax. Thats obvious.

As for the creeping fascist state, -that is the real problem.

When are you gonna start thinking about that?

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux "It's obviou, think about this other issue which cannot be quantified instead" is of course, a classic consipracy-theory model.

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 No theory, just facts. Totally quantifiable.

Why dont you look into it?

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux for all your talk of such "facts" you really fail to mention much.

And electricity is a theory. Theory is an integral part of science.

Could you put the bluster aside?

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 If you want to know the facts you should try looking for them yourself.

Theyre easy to find.

Or do you need authority figures to tell you what and how to think?

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux So, obviously then, any institution which performs self checks is an "authority" which cannot be trusted, but "indeendent" voices with no self-checks are contrarian, and, therefore, "rebellious", but most importantly in-line with your ideology and can be trusted?

of course, this must be supplmented bya wall of rheotric about "resistance" and sheeple." Grow up.

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 We are each responsible for our own understandings.

If you refuse to look at all the evidence, whether you are comfortable with it or not, you will not have a ballanced opinion.

This is where TPTB will step in and give you your opinion.

The tool they use is always fear.

Money is available for pro MM GW research, but not for the counter view. Speaks volumes.

I have not once used the term sheeple.

Humanity does indeed need to grow up.

Authority is what you give away.

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux again you're making claims without sourcezs combiend with an unhealthy dose of rhetoric....

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 If you cannot see the gathering pace of fearmongering and control in your world you must be either blind, ignorant, incredibly naive or foolish. If you cannot see the conditions being implemented for a corporate world state, and you refuse to connect the dots, you are living in total denial.

Follow the money. Research the big names look at their history.

You Tube - A message to the environmental movement- by James Corbett to get you started, or look at - Infowars.com.

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux because, obviously, a very narrow site like infowars is full of unbiased information that does not need factual confirmation because single-source derivation based off of strong, unverfiable assumptions about every other media source could not lead to faluty reasoning.

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 You obviously have no idea about infowars. Their sources are top-notch.

There are many other places to find the info but many are not mainstream so you will obviously reject them by reflex action. This is your conditioning at work.

You reject info without investigation. Your loss, and your childrens loss.

We all lose because of this apathy.

I check all types of media sources, the picture is crystal clear.

The time is fast approaching when even you will be in no doubt.

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux It is your lack of doubt and unsubstatiated claims that bother me.

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 My lack of doubt stems from over 20 years of study.

The PTB are keeping to an agenda. You can predict their moves easily and accurately, well in advance.

I am not here to substantiate anything. That is up to you.

I just want people to know there is a revolution going on. A revolution in understanding. A real and effective revolution which requires no violence of any kind.

The global warming scam is one of many fronts which require exposing.

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux in other words "I don't ahve to prove anything because I don't want to."

Irinically, your claim that your 20 years of study automatically amke you right is an argument by authroity...

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 I would never force my views onto others.

I listen to all sides. I am my own authority. Not yours.

I am no better or worse than anyone else. I am equal to everyone else.

We are in this together. There is no seperation.

If you want proof of anything, you must prove it to your own satisfaction first. That is a personal journey.

Our way of living seperates and divides everything and everyone. It forces opposition and fear.

The same can be said of science in general.

I

[thinkingguy87]

@bribeanbabybopdelux that's fulffy.

Action is taken collectively and demands a level of commonly agreed premises, usually based on an element of verfiable and accotunable authroity.

"personal journeys" soun nice but rarely get anything done. There wass no "personal self-discovery" in the banning of lead paint, there were sound scientific arguments for doing so.

[bribeanbabybopdelux]

@thinkingguy87 So science is your authority?

Do you know the history of flouride and are you aware of the many studies that warn of its neuro toxic effects? What about the many studies on vaccines that show them to be useless against diseases but contain many hazzardous toxins.

What about the many leading scientists who oppose the global warming scam?

Its nice when they are forced to change regulation under weight of evidence, but it is business first science second.

Fluffy my arse!

[djchris73]

Scientific Debunking of AGW?

In youtube look for:

Global Warming Fraud Debunked by John Coleman

[KillahMate]

@djchris73 John Coleman is not a credible source. He is a talking head. Watch the video you're commenting on, and the ones before it, and you'll learn how and why Coleman's opinion should be examined before taking it as gospel.

[AGWisBS]

Oh man... this guy in that video is a complete luney toon.. You guys should be committed just for watching him, let alone listening to anything he says. To anyone who thinks that GW is a crisis and that we must act now to stop it is brainwashed by the media and politicians, especially you gullible Britts... grow up and look for yourself, stop taking the talking head's opinions as fact. Idiots.

[sadaeus]

A clever mind of our time once said:

"If someone prefers insults to viable arguments, he usually does not have any."

Thus I consider your message as a sign of how helpless and frustrated you are.

But don't worry too much. There are clever heads on this planet who will do something. So even people like you can survive and maybe even sustain your standard of living. :)

Gosh, that's nice, eh?

Well yes, there are people on this planet who don't spend their time on insults. Surprise!

[112048112048]

lol you missed the boxes

[mdiem]

Not necessarily so. The ones to survive might just be lucky due to geography or their survival is based on the fitness of their wealth and political influence and not their genes.

Just because natural selection is "natural" doesn't mean it leads to an outcome in your best interest.

Natural selection also helps viruses kill you better.

Score one for Darwin? Only in the sense that he saw it coming.

Besides, what makes you think you won't be one of the idiots that gets wiped out?

[thesimulacre]

I feel that our responsibilities as consumers extend far beyond what you suggest. Public consensus is not always enough in a system where the information generally only flows downstream. I will wait for the rest of the videos in order to establish a lack or redundancy or contradiction, but I suspect your solutions are lacking at this point.

Thank god for logical minds like yours, though.

[SevenPatch]

"...you can have a little bit of government regulation..."

"Anyone who would be willing to give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" Benjamin Franklin.

Not convinced. From my research (ice core samples, meteorologist research, climatologist research, global reports) I have determined that the likelihood of AGW is actually very minimal. I agree that we need to invest in solar/wind tech but we can't afford to eliminate our current energy needs.

[Kryton87]

Ok, the earth is big, sure, all that stuff there, you're saying its not a problem, but what if you're wrong? Given that the AAAS and NAS statements exist, then I think its reasonable to think either way, and given that both are equal possibilities, I'd say its better to take major action against this.

I'm not suggest you are wrong, I'm asking what happens if you are.

[mdiem]

Besides the brief ex. of lottery tix to explain risk analysis, there aren't any example risk analysis numbers to make a point for an AGW action decision.

Make some numbers up just for the exercise: multiply the probability of GCC happening vs. the cost to mitigate it and the probability it doesn't vs. the cost to recover from it.

Pretend the scientific consensus isn't 90% in agreement that AGW/GCC is happening - even if the probability was very low, the expected cost of inaction is huge

[duffystuffy]

Its your mistakes that are important not your correct decisions

[ted77756]

I agree with you, but you are making a 2nd dumb mistake: Which is KE and entrophy error.

The earth is really big!!! It has KE from Mass, Sunlight, and Velocity. And pollution is unhealthy, but doesn't have the KE like the size from the mass * velocity of planet earth.

Again a calculation is missing. I got a BSEE and an MSEE. I am an expert. You don't know Thermodynamics. It's a physics class too. You haven't done a trade off from Newton KE to Thermo KE. So what 1970. ??Any Math??

[killingthyme]

What does the earth's translational and rotational kinetic energy have to do with the climate?

What are you talking about "pollution doesn't have the kinetic energy"? What does the "kinetic energy of pollution" even mean? You, sir, are no expert.

Being an electrical engineer doesn't go squat for science. You can wire my house, and your friend could design my car, but I wouldn't trust you on the theory behind how it works.

[ted77756]

What!!!!!!!

How accurate are scientists? Because the cell phone works?? Isn't that electrical engineering? Not a theoretical science.

So WHAT>>>>>>!!!!!!!  The atmosphere is chaos. How does "landing and airplane and a cell phone" relate to atmosphere science.

Acid rain is in water or vapor form. An airplane and cell phone are more solid in structure.

Sorry, but that was the world record dumb error.

[killingthyme]

Well, actually, electrical devices are based on electricity and magnetism. How do you think their semiconductor components were developed? Electromagnetic theory.

You'd be surprised how much everything relates. Solids and gases are both made of atoms and molecules following the same fundamental forces, obeying the same fundamental laws. The man's point was just that scientists know what they're doing.

[CityzenJane]

"Whose your Daddy?"

LOLOLOLOLOL

[Darvas73]

In the future rising oil price will reduce emissions and accelerate development of alternative technologies more effectively than goverment regulation ever could. It will come as a shock to the leftists that the market is more effective in saving the world than fear and threat of violence.

[kurosh9]

No one is debating that the market will "naturally" start making these alternative technologies, without government influence. The central point of the arguement presented here is that "in the future" is, in all likelihood, too late.

Also, some things that are "good" for you don't just happen on their own... look up how and why seatbelts in cars started, at least in North America. I guarantee this wasn't a "free market" decision, regardless how irrefutable not having them is a "bad" thing.

[Darvas73]

"No one is debating that the market will "naturally" start making these alternative technologies"

Yes it will as soon as the new technologies are cheaper and more practical. Money is the only effective incentive. Trying to make people give up burning oil by force will lead to civil war.

"Also, some things that are "good" for you don't just happen on their own... "

They certainly don't. Someone very smart and hard working has to invent them. That tends to rule out government employees.

[monsterrun]

ok this is for all ppls that thinks he is trhowing bullshit.

he is just trying to help you guys. dont be dumb and wait until it hit. to react. just do something good for your planet. not for yourself. that can always wait.

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

The end was awesome

[rufusy12]

so many holes in the arguement i dont know where to start

[mefano]

Oh please do start.

[duderseb]

Oh by all means please do.

[scholastica33]

CO2 levels rise 800 years AFTER the global temperature rises. Therefore CO2 levels are a SYMPTOM of global warming not the cause. When oil fuels are unavailable because of high prices. People offering water powered and free energy products etc will rule the roost. Goverment taxes and legislation against CO2 of anykind are simply interim excuses penalising developing nations and ordinary people. Rally against what held the technology back in the first place. The FREE market cures all.

[TempestStormwind]

Scholastica33:

CO2 traps heat through the greenhouse effect -- but it also can be released through increased temperature if the temperature rises from another forcing. See also "Milankovich Cycles".

By your logic, since fire causes heat, heat is a symptom of fire and not a cause, therefore it should be fine to picnic right next to magma.

Besides, all of this is beside the main point: Why are YOU and I talking science instead of figuring out what's the wisest course of action?

(Continued)

[TempestStormwind]

Now, as for the whole "penalizing developing nations" thing, you *do* realize that both Kyoto *and* the EU's Bali proposal (which the US cratered because they thought it was 'unfair') exempted developing nations, right?

Also, "free energy" is a myth from those unfamiliar with basic thermodynamics.

The demand for alternative energy is there -- so why aren't the companies jumping on it? Could making FF less economical perhaps nudge the market into seriously developing the alternatives?

[scholastica33]

I'll take it back and your word for it. I will disagree free energy is a myth and why no one has demanded alternative energy sources. The same reason the world is in a mess. OIL. Over unity machines exist. And are blocked by oil companies. What happened to the electric car? It was a start and there was demand as you say. America is fighting wars to keep the dollar backed by oil! If no one could afford oil which they may not after Iran, there would be no choice but to use alternatives.

[RichTCS]

Wow, Scholastica33, I'd love to hear a good explanation of how the second law of thermodynamics is bogus, but I haven't heard it yet.... Credibility for "over unity" machines would be gained by providing some refutation of Carnot's, Kelvin's and Fermi's work. And John Maxwell's demon notwithstanding (as a thought experiment), I haven't heard of any actual implementation of a system that truly evades entropy.

[RichTCS]

oops, sorry - I meant James Maxwell!

[scholastica33]

No one said it was bogus. It only describes one reality. Just like quantum mechanics expands our understanding. Tesla or radiant technology must also be realised(if it hasn't already). I would ask you to debunk that side of things. Our current oil entrenched governments are delaying until they can find and compensate for, a supply and demand replacement for oil. Mankind free of energy constraints is what is to be strived for. That is the fight.

[scholastica33]

I take it back. I've done more research since. Diplomat stance appreciated. I still feel the answer is not in punishment especially for the public. It should be placed at industries feet and a free market.

[TempestStormwind]

If you have an over-unity machine design, why aren't you submitting it to the scientific journals?

It would be a PHENOMINAL discovery, easily greater than relativity and quantum theory combined, because it turns on its head centuries of thermodynamics.

And the journals aren't going to be blocked by the oil companies -- the scientists still publish things Exxon'd rather not hear, for instance.

Note: The free market wants oil. Without an external nudge, it'll stay on oil until it's too late.

[TheRealArchAngel]

Do you know the real reason why NAS and other organizations "line up" with Environmental Organizations is that 1) Activist realized they have more weight being "Scientist" and Politicians and in Media Positions 2) Using their new positions,as appose to being dismissed as nuts in a protest, they are able to drive their point of view using correlated data to back up their bias that Human Co2 is causing Climate change.

[borisbahr]

Start thinking! Wake up! This discussion is less about the facts that most of us cannot fully grasped because we just aren´t properly trained in exactly this field -- this is all about common sense! Start acting now or at least stop slowing the rest of us who have grasped the danger down! Greetings from the country that is by now the technology leader in renewables!

[freesk8]

Here is why big corps have called for regulation on themselves: they know that they are better able to deal with regs than small competitors. The big cos have a greater ability to buy influence with govt.  The big cos are trying to use their power to squeeze out small cos and preserve their advantage. True free market is better.

[TheRealArchAngel]

What? Exxon owns or controls almost all of the Uranium mines, and Chevron/GE are the ones with Commercial Soalr,Wind,Desalnation,and Geothermal Technology. Catch there is "Commercial Power" which means no matter what your house electricity will be still provided by them and if you go to the quickcharge station for you electric/air/water/hydrogen car it will still say "Chevron,Connoco,Phillips,Texi­co,etc"...lol

[freesk8]

If we are not convinced that there will be a mad max world as a result of GW, then arguments that our civil liberties will be eroded don't scare us.

It may be in the interests of corps to study alt fuels, but there is no justification for governments to FORCE cos or taxpayers to fund it.

[freesk8]

Alt energies are great, but taxpayer funding is corporate welfare. The free market will take care of this as gas prices rise due to scarcity. Most alt energy research is funded by big oil corps, but even the small cos are corporations. The market will take care of it. Govt does a lousy job of picking tech winners.

[mdiem]

"The free market will take care of this as gas prices rise due to scarcity."

And by then it will be too late.

It's not government's place to pick a tech winner, but if it's time to act and no one is acting, then the government can provide some incentive to get things moving.

E.g. an alt' tech might exist (don't know if it's the best yet) but can't afford to get off the ground. With a little assistance, they can get systems in place that might just save all our asses.

[freesk8]

The government stepped in on HDTV. It took decades to get that done.

If an alt tech exists that is promising, it is a lot easier to persuade a bunch of venture capitalists to invest in it than a congressional subcomittee. VC folks bet on dozens of start-ups, knowing that most will fail.

Govt is so much worse at picking technologies, that mostly the worst will get govt funding, thus fleecing the taxpayer.

Why do you think govt can pick 'em better than VC?

[mdiem]

to freesk8 -

I don't think the gov't is better at anything except in terms of scale. It's like an insurance co. or a money market acct. - the pooling of resources for higher efficiency.

When I studied Environmental Law, this was a big point of discussion: The gov't does have a bad record at making decisions and should be used as a last resort, but the feeling of many is that we are in 'last resort' territory right now.

I'd love for capitalism to be the solution, but will it be done in time?

[freesk8]

The only thing the government is good at is war.

It is larger, but there is no way it is more efficient in the financial sector. Just look at the mismanagement of AIG.

The government is the largest polluter in the land. Holding resources in common, by the government, creates the tragedy of the commons.

The sky is not falling. Soon we will realize that human activity is one of the smallest drivers of climate change and is dwarfed by natural mechanisms.

Adaptation makes more sense.

[lionessimba]

I think our courts are already quite great some things their not so good on[such as science more in the sense of the criminal/civil courts aren't so good on actually they apparently gave pretty good and pro-evidence/science judgements] their are also far to man factors for me to want to dismiss that if their are reasons government may work pooling is probably not the only thing we have Internaitonal corporations rather, it is possible that it may be a good system.

[RoelGeurtsen]

Agreed!!

before Thatcher initiated climate-research ,we were all considering these other sides,It are the alarmists who closed the door

by making us out to be stupid,if we dont bend to unproven Agw!

[TempestStormwind]

On a related note, that doesn't address Aurelia's comment. It's basically a red herring fallacy, in fact.

The challenge was to demonstrate why the US should NOT begin the conversion to renewable resources, regardless of whether or not AGW was true.

Note that this isn't wholesale big-government "convert now", but just the beginning of the conversion.