A large amount of conspiracy theories are very real. Whenever two or more people get together and secretly plan anything it's called a conspiracy. If the info. leaks out and public officials acknowledge it the conspiracy becomes a fact. For matter public officials rarely actually acknowledge anything unless they are under lots of pressure by the public.
I dislike John Avlon. I think Sara Palin is a joke. What this guy stands for is this: he loved the GOP of George W. Bush. He loves amensty. He loves the never ending wars. He's open to hate speech laws. He's for affirmative action. He's for the EEOC. He's against state's rights. He prefers 3 networks on TV. The internet worries him. He is the establishment incarnate. And again I dislike Glenn Beck, Palin. and Bachmann. The rheoteric is more heated b/c the issues facing us are more grave.
I love the background. Not your typical decoration in North America. Instead of the stupid box (TV that is) that kills reason and thinking, there are books.
Do Americans actually read books and take the time to reflect? Or most of them watch their preferred TV program and act on what FEELS right?
I hope I am wrong, but my suspicion is the latter is more likely than the former.
I love the background. Not your typical decoration in North America. Instead of the stupid box (TV that is) that kills reason and thinking, there are books.
Do Americans actually read books and take the time to reflect? Or most of them watch their preferred TV program and act on what FEELS right?
I hope I am wrong, but my suspicion is the latter is more likely than the former.
The Lunatic Fringe hate extremists on the right and left hyper-partisanship needs to be called out and confronted. We need to get things more bipartisan and moderate and less radical.
This is a game. A distraction. Oooh.hes smart. He doesn't like Olberman or Beck. Grayson or Bachman. Wow! The porridge that Goldilocks chose. LoL!!! He just said we've been sold a dumbed down version of American politics. Really? Whoa.I didn't know that. When someone is smirking like a little ho as if they are on to something new or special when they are just talking shit...oh no, it's getting worse.lol. I like John Stewart's spiel better. He can keep a straight face when he talks shit.
I'm sorry but when you try to inject fake nutrality and balance into your argument by putting Allen Grayson in the same level of Michele Bachmann, then you yourself are a lunatic.
The parties are more polarized than ever before huh, you might as well try to argue that gravity has never been more powerful than it is today. And certainly partisan media is a new thing, newspapers were never like that right?
Figures he'd be the kind of guy to wear cowboy boots with a dress shirt and slacks.
Its not Obama derangement syndrome. Its lack of results. Where he gets it wrong is when he excuses obama from all wrongs and blames the democratic congress. He is a man of ideals and obama is great at speaking rhetorically about ideals. So i can see why he would be drawn to him as a politician. Much of his stuff is accurate and some isnt mainly with his free pass for obama. interesting piece though
I like how "centrist" come across accusing people with certain beliefs as "wingnuts". He is trying to say that Obama is a centrist?! What planet are you living on? All you have to do is listen to Obama's own words and you can see that he is clearly Socialist. It would be nice if we could all just hold hands sing songs together. We fight against aggressive socialist ideology. We are doing it peacefully. This guy is arrogant, and has no basis for his argument. He is liberal. not centrist.
@shaneduffy78 There's a difference between what Obama says and what he does. He has (or at least had) a big social justice platform and the rhetoric for that, but he hasn't implemented any of it. Yes, he's a statist, but nowhere near a socialist.
Income redistribution? I don't see any - in fact, he seems to be leaning towards extending the top bracket tax cut.
Bailout for the big banks? Yep. You know who voted against it? Self-described socialist Bernie Sanders.
This guy is pulling the classic independents/centrists are great; independents/centrists hold the views of moderate republicans. You should check out this guy's current and past gigs.
I agree with a lot of this guy is saying but I think his points on fiscal conservatism is a bi-product of corporate right wing propaganda that has widely and wrongly pushed the country to the right. To claim that the moderate, or middle ground is center right is not an impartial assessment. The truth is, it is amazing that we are the wealthiest nation in the world, and we still have trouble paying for public services. That is a source of a major problem.
Its interesting that a guy like this can come on youtube, and fairly accurately simply state the condition of politics in america at this point of time, and you get these MORONS coming on here, making idiotic claims about how this guy is an idiot and how he doesn't know anything. Whats with that, it makes me wonder, if i were to tell one of these brain surgeons that the sky is blue today, if they would turn around and say that I don't know what the fuck im talking about
So why are the left-wingers "wingnuts" again, aside from the fact that this douche says so? It's telling that he has to go back to the 1960s to find leftists as crazy as the crop of right-wing lunatics that we have to listen to RIGHT NOW.
hahhhaha this guy just talks and talks and talks and continues to talk while there are people out there that are starving dying and are in need. The USA doesent need another talker we need someone that is willing to take risks and actually HELP PEOPLE ! And that includes mexicans, blacks and the impoverished. But I realize that the republican party is not interested in those type of values.
A. What makes this a guy an expert on" Conspiracies or lunatic fringe " being a speech writer for the disgraced Rudy Guilliani ... cross dressing clown that hired and supported KERIK , convicted Felon and mob friend that hired illegal alien . Guy keeps good company .
This Psyops parrot won't mention the FACT over 1000 ENGINEERS ,ARCHITECTS , SCHOLARS, FORMER GERMAN INTEL HEAD ...ARE PART OF THE TRUTHER MOVEMENT , BCS THEN HE COULDN'T FLOAT HIS " lunatic fringe smear " on the Conspiracy People
Amusing that Olbermann listed Avlon alongside Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh on his "worst of the week" list. A bit ironic, considering the latter two are the sorts Avlon compares Olbermann to. The reason Olbermann gave was pretty silly as well, making the sour grapes more than a little transparent.
Chief Speechwriter of Republican Rudolph Giuliani
Policy Director for Giuliani's 2008 presidential campaign
Director of Speechwriting for Giuliani in 2008.
Senior Fellow at GOP's Manhattan Institute which was created by Ronald Reagan's CIA Director William Casey in 1978.
Does Avlon seem like he doesn't have a political agenda, does he seem like a person who could treat liberals & republicans equally, does he seem like a person who's not a biased partisan hack playing favoritism.
a good 7th grade debater could waste you,vague rhetoric few examples,opposite reality of the internet, jesus! can i get a fetter or 2 and talk vacuous and endless,mabeynes MENTAL MASTURBATION GOD! I got to get a life--what am i doing?!?!?!?----- EDWARD R MURROW WAS CHRIST (i though id give you something viable to use) BLEAT BLAEAT ABLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
@CorrosionX3 I dunno, hes always bashing on the federal reserve and saying that constitutional rights are being violated. Sounds like a libertarian to me.
In other news RAND PAUL WON THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR SENATOR OF KENTUCKY! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@DMWestWoodElite that's not what makes a libertarian. Being a libertarian is about the principle that it's wrong to initiate force (violate rights to life, liberty and property) against peaceful people to achieve political or social goals.
"...these are the professional partisans, the unhinged activists, the uh ya know paranoid conspiracy theorists. The people who are always trying to unite us, rather than divide us." What? Did I miss something. I dismissed the left/right paradigm years ago but I also believe in free will. I also believe that most people are fairly intelligent and self-aware enough to make choices for THEMSELVES. If Obama "gets it" he certainly isn't displaying it. Is this guy just an Obama apologist or what?
@orcgoat Totally. All CT's stand on the same line with religious extremists. Just look at their behaviour. If people disagree with CT's (sceptics & people who are not insane), then the person is either a "psyop", "mk'd", "part of the illuminati", "a satan worshipper", and so on. The best thing they say is "do your research." CT's only do their research on websites that agree with their views; you will NOT find one on a sceptics forum reading the opposing view. That would just hurt their egos.
@lowelljohn68, thanks for proving his point. Obviously you wouldn't know a real LIBERAL if one smacked you in the face. You obviously rely on the likes of the wingnuts to inform your opinion instead of taking REALITY into account when you judge a person's political stance.
BTW, the target of Olbermann's rants are corporations, politicians, and the wealthy, people who are perfectly capable of protecting themselves. With Coulter, Beck and Limbaugh, their talking points are aimed at the likes of the poor, immigrants, and 9/11 widows, people who do not have lawyers on retainer who are the least powerful. That's the difference between say Jon Stewart, real SATIRE against the powerful and Limbaugh, CRUELTY disguised as "satire" aimed at those that lack power.
This is disingenuous, unlike Grayson or Olbermann, the moderate Left do not parrot their talking points the ways that John Boehner will parrot the talking points of the lunatic right. The reason that we're divided is that the GOP and the neocons who have driven their policies for the last 40 years have failed and frankly (because of Palin and Bush failures) the moderate Republicans either DID NOT vote or voted for OBAMA so they can't counter a person they voted for.
Moderates typically dwell in the world of shared FACTS they just have different opinions as to what those facts mean. So since the moderate RIGHT is reeling because of the failures of their policies, it's left to the LUNATIC RIGHT to be the counter to the OBAMA administration. Unlike OBAMA (who does dwell in a world of facts) the likes of GLENN BECK and his entirely manufactured whack-a-doodle ideas serve as legitimate RIGHT WING counter to OBAMA when it is not LEGITIMATE.
The moderate Left, for example, do not uphold such "conspiracies" as those that the TRUTHERS hold but what's left of the MODERATE RIGHT will hold up BIRTHER conspiracies. And when dealing w/ the problems of healthcare, instead of arguing about effective ways to cut costs, you get LEADING Republican John Boehner saying "we have the best healthcare system in the world" so why fix it. That's a blatant lie that isn't supported by the facts and is simply a RADICAL RIGHT talking point.
For example, Glenn Beck (because he was able to gather 75,000 Americans in Washinton w/ his "9/12 movement') all at once gets handed legitimacy as a spokesperson for the RIGHT but Louis Farrakhan gathered 84,000 Americans to the same mall in the Million Man March but he wasn't all of the sudden given the mantle of spokesperson for the LEFT. By nature of the Million Man March (where less than 6% of the population was targeted) it shows that Beck is REALLY only appealing to about a 5% FRINGE.
i talk issue with this dude calling glenn beck a loon seeing as glenn beck is all about independents and pretty dang libertarian leaning...which is pretty much what he said he'd like to see our country become
dirk, I take issue that you call Beck is LIBERTARIAN just because he says he is. REAL LIBERTARIANS know that Beck, like most of the things that come out of his mouth, full of shit when he calls himself a LIBERTARIAN. A real libertarian would not be giving speeches to the CPAC convention of hard core (fake) conservatives. Sorry, Beck has shown his hand enough to prove that like so many modern-day self-professed "libertarians" he's really a conservative embarrassed by conservative policy failures.
dirk, Beck is on the FRINGES of the RIGHT. That's why he was at CPAC. He is nowhere near a moderate and he often contradicts himself (sometimes in the same sentence). He did not hold Bush to the same standards as he does OBAMA (even though such things as TARP are as much a "Maoist takeover" as healthcare reform). There's nothing wrong with being a "conservative" if you're really a conservative. Fake conservatives loved BUSH (for a bit) and REAGAN even though they left the largest deficits ever.
priorzola, you seem to think you know a lot LOL however, you just sound like a raving liberal loon, parroting everything you read on huffington, moveon, kos and hear on msnbc.
@bearless70, sorry tool, none of my facts came from any of those places but the average so-called LIBERTARIAN likes to quote Beck as if he's gospel. But If I were anywhere near the kind of talking point machine that the average so-called Libertarian was, you would do a better job at disputing me (because the source of my info would be obvious). Too bad you're defenind BECK-BOTS parading around as "libertarians"
i take issue with what he says about glenn beck seeing as glenn beck is all about independents and pretty dang libertarian leaning...so he'd pretty much be what he wants us to become
Talk of Libertarian views and not a mention of Ron Paul. He also demonizes information on the internet with out giving it credit for so many people waking up to the Polarized lie of politics today. This guy sells snake oil in a good message. Be aware of this when listening to him.
Kyocus, problem is that clearly the likes of you take the information on the internet at it's face value instead of doing the basic research necessary to support your opinion. It's not a coincident that the vast majority of neocon goons like to parrot the exact same talking points because they got them all from the very same UNCITED and UNRESEARCHED sites. The internet is a TOOL for acquiring information and you're a tool if you simply take info from those sites and regurgitate them as facts.
Could you please tell me what "the likes of me" are? I try not to take information at face value. I write down what is cited for reference and check it. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy in this video told Dr. Antony Sutton "RIP" that he was a lunatic conspiracy theorist. I am sure that he would call anyone who cites Dr. Sutton's work a lune. I wont call you a tool for making an assumption about me which was unfounded. Now tell me the information I cited with out checking in this conversation.
I think you've mistaken me for a republican. I'm an independent, who agrees with much of what Avlon says in this video. He does, however, hide an ominous message within a good message. I simply like Ron Paul because I agree with his voting record and message. Dehumanizing others is the easiest way to ignore them. Please don't do that, it allows others to control you.
Kyocus, Point being is that too many people get all the support for their political opinions from one or two sources and do very little to fully research if those sources are accurate. For example, many polls have shown that those who rely primarily on Fox News for their information tend to actually be the least factually informed people out there. So to align Olbermann (who is not as factually incorrect) w/ Beck (who very much is) who very much is and polls show this, is disingenuous.
I did not touch upon main stream media, because I take no opinion from it. You seemed to assume I was something I am not, and proceeded to try to insult me. Now, once again, tell me what "the likes of me" are. I completely disagree with far left and far right polarized politics. Its an easy strategy to divide and conquer the polls. I also disagree with scare tactics. Avlon in many interview drives this message of being afraid of people who think differently.
The only thing Alan Grayson is guilty of is speaking forcefully and abrasively.
He's not guilty of lying...like Beck and Bachmann, he's not guilty of encouraging violence, of fear (how is making the republicans look bad 'fear-mongering'? It's telling the truth). And Grayson fights for the right things, to help people.
gjsterp, sorry the VAST MAJORITY of Americans are the one's pushing for it.. It's a long neglected problem that only got worse under Bush. I know that Republicans like to pretend certain issues don't exist or that it's not the govt's job to fix them (even though it apparently is the govts job to pay for 50% of that healthcare and that money more and more goes into a CEOs pocket and NOT to providing care) but it's not a conspiracy for the President to actually ADDRESS our problems.
I'm surprised, Reason usually has unique and interesting guests. This sort of talk is as mainstream as the wing nuts themselves.
I'm more concerned with the utter lack of ideology of either party.
The Republicans talk about small government, then turn around and enthusiastically support the drug war.
The Democrats talk about freedom and free speech. Unless, of course, you are saying mean words against "protected" groups. And, if you want the freedom to protect yourself.
ksullivan, sorry tool, I'm thinking it was GM and CHRYSLER who came to the govt for FREE MONEY, not the other way around. i know the average neocon has the memory of a gnat but the big bad govt that just gave a failing industry (because it listened to BIG OIL to set CAFE standards for too long) money for failing isn't turning around and DEMANDING that they then build only certain kinds of cars. You really are clueless as to how our economy works.
@priorzola Gee thanks for passing on your wisdom. But it really does not matter who came to whom. The govt could have said no. I am amazed at how much you were able to learn about me in based on my short comment. Next time try addressing the statement instead of attacking me personally. Question: Did the gov't buy them or not?
ksullivan, the govt BAILED them out just like the govt BAILS OUT industry year after year with free money and subsidies. You can alsways go back and ask Engine Charlie (Charlie Wilson--former chief of GM) who owns these corporations (or do the corporations own the govt). You know all that free money that was handed to the likes of Ford and GM during WWII, well that money got good to the auto industry (and the oil industry and the defesne industry, etc). That free money has never stopped.
I would agree that the parties are polarized, but if you honestly can't tell there isn't a great difference between them you aren't looking hard enough for their similarities.
Hate is a powerful tool however. But drumming people out isn't something exclusive to Republicans and Democrats. I define myself as a conservative libertarian. Typically where I don't agree with Libertarianism I agree with Pat Buchanan style Paleo-conservatism, or I feel some where inbetween the two.
I've noticed that when I disagree, both Libertarians and Conservatives have an equally volatile reaction. But that's human nature! We dislike those who disrupt our little clubs. Yes, there is a lot of independents who reflect libertarian views. But they aren't 'real libertarians' because some of them are pro-life or believe in minimum wage. Oh noes. Lets keep the party pure, chase the heritics out!
I think we need to work down to which issues are the most important though, and be more relaxed
On others. There is no reason to go nuts on some left leaning fellow just because he thinks social security is a good idea or wants to regulate industry that pollutes heavily. Likewise, just because some right winger is a little militant or pays lightly into social conservatism is no reason for them to be purged.
I think the big four issues were very nicely laid out by Ron Paul when he got McKinney, Nader, Baldwin, and Barr together to point out "We all agree on these important things."
silvsilvchan, the reason you get nearly the same reaction from so-called Libertarians as you do so-called conservatives is that many are the same thing. Former conservatives are now calling themselves "libertarians" because of the failures of Bush but many of them still support those exact same policies. Most so-called "libertarians" wouldn't know what libertarianism was if it bit them in the ass that's why they accept that Beck is one just because he says so.
Yes and no. There are some more traditional conservatives in the "Buchanan school of thought" who jumped ship too, and they align more with Libertarians by a long shot, except on social issues. You can see that with Ron Paul too. He is definitely pro-life. I've seen Libertarians use his stance there to say "he isn't a libertarian" more or less because they are using this very narrow definition of what is or is not a libertarian. Though the Bushites should be purged whereever they go. =P
Another left wing attack on the right, wearing the skin of a principled logical cnetrist. A huge swing to the right is needed just to get the country back to the center.
You mean a swing back to those glory years of the first 6 years of BUSH where our country was attacked, we sent tens of thousands of troops to foreign deserts and mountains w/o so much as a plan for victory, we broke international torture laws, and our entire economy practically collapsed in on itself while we virtually ignored pressing concerns like the environment, education, and healthcare. Oh, and where 3/4 of the wealth went to the top 1% and most Americans LOSS wealth. Oh, the glory days.
Yes the obama days are far superior aren't they? The attacks on the constitution, His take over attempt of American health care to increase the size of government (and his control). His tripling of the debt in one year, his complete bankrupting of the country in order to install his own progressive/marxist form of dictatorship, his and the dems compete total disregard for what the citizens demand, that the constitution be adhered to. The dems are responsible for 99% of our financial debt.
leestauf, which part of the Constitution has he attacked? Have you even bothered to read the Constitution to even know or are you a typical teabagger who, like the failed Religious Right of old, like to hide their irrationa fear and willful ignorance behind a document (whether it's a Bible or the Constitution) that you've never ever read? 50% of the healthcare system is already paid for by the govt (which means you're subsidized). TAKE OVER as in funnelling money to care instead of CEOs pockets.
@hoserPhalanx, I know, why did willfully ignorant hate mongers soil the name of a perfectly good sex act? What did the original teabaggers ever do to a bunch of out of touch old fat white men to deserve such disrespect? What does a sex act between two consenting adults have to do with a bunch of hypocrites who think that they alone can interpret a Constitution that they've never even read? It really is terrible that the teabber NONmovement had to misappropriate a perfectly healthy sex technique.
Localism is the soul of the Constitution. Before the Great Society reforms, federal expenditures on healthcare were never above 1% of GDP. Now 8% of GDP. In 1960, 75% of overall health expenditures were private, mostly out-of-pocket, and american families and business were far less indebted than today.
leeestauf, I know it's better to bankrupt the country fighting illegal wars while borrowing money from the Chinese instead but not by investing in infrastructure and trying to contain one of the most out of control costs for Americans and American business (healthcare). Sorry tool, even capitalist countries have public healthcare (all but ours). The largest debt this country had were left by TWO Republican Presidents, tool. You're so full of talking points but ZERO facts.
leestauf, get back to me when you can make it through a whole posting w/o using the word Marxist and can begin to reveal even the basic knowledge of how our economy works. This is why I know so-called "Libertarians" are always full of shit. They bitch and whine about taxes and "fiscal responsibility" but they know next to nothing about how our economy works. Only 2% of all teabaggers realize that under Obama their taxes have gone down. So much for a "movement" based on tax restraint.
I've heard that all too often lately; "The parties are more polarized than ever" What? They are closer than ever; they both want the same government control, they just differ on how to achieve it
This author is a joke. It's been the right wing nuts who started it all and now moderates are finding a voice to counter their vitriol. The author arbitrarily designates them as left for his own agenda.
No one can reasonably claim that Grayson and Olbermann are left wing nuts, the author further demonstrates his bias against moderates with his choice of Olbermann for his cover.
Yes I have to disagree strongly when he mentions the good will and intentions of people trying to bring the country back to its feet like Palin and Bachmann.
Michele Bachmann is shown to be consistently wrong with her ridiculous extremist statements. That right wing whackos can deem her nuttiness as standing up shows they need to be beat back.
Brent, the only thing Michelle Bachmann is standing up for is that $250,000 check that her family farm receives from the govt in the form of corporate welfare every year. Spare me, she's another corporate communist goon who doesn't want those poor uninsured people nipping into the free govt welfare money she depends on for herself.
To compare Glenn Beck and Keith Olbermann is like comparing Fillet Mignon to Alpo. Obviously, Mr Avlon has never actually watched either of them. Glenn Beck is educational and informative, he educates on our founding principles and exposes threats to our Republic. Unlike Olbermann, Beck is never hateful or vengeful in his presentation. I'm sure Avlon would have labeled Jefferson and Franklin "wingnuts" as well? If defending the Republic makes one a wing nut, then I am one too!
Beck isn't always honest though. I agree with him on a lot of things, but he really likes to demonize and stretch the truth.
I really don't like progressives either, but drawing parallels between them and the Nazis then saying Hitler was a liberal accomplishes what exactly? Calling Hitler a liberal or a conservative, right or left wing completely misses the point of why he was such a terrible human being and that needs to stop.
Silvsilvchan, looking at history to learn from it is going to naturally draw parallels between past & present, that's why we study history in the first place, so we don't repeat it. If one points out the FACT that Nazis were socialistic Fascists and it naturally parallels SOME of the ideology of modern progressives, who is to blame? Do you think when Hitler was 12 he said someday I'm going to kill multitudes of Jews? Is it possible his political ideology played a roll to lead him to that place?
4small, first of all any REAL historian (of which you clearly are not) knows that there's a HUGE difference between a FASCIST and a SOCIALIST. Second of all, the LAST THING that concerned people about Hitler was his healthcare policy (which in similar forms was adopted by each and every country he invaded eventually). I think the thing that people most despised about HITLER was his way of indiscriminately invaded countries on false pretenses (like BUSH did in IRAQ). Spare me, tool.
Beck is not EDUCATIONAL just because he likes to stand in front of a black board and pretend to be a professor (ironic because when he never has been confronted w/ actual professors being that he hardly went to college). Beck MISeducates and has been called out numerous times not for just misrepresenting what the Constiution says but MISrepresenting what our Founding Fathers said. Just because Beck likes to compare himself to the likes of JEFFERSON, he is the furthest thing from it.
4Small, Beck tried to render a passage in the Constitution that spoke of "illegal persons", "taxes" and "importation across borders" and automatically assumed it was about immigration and then he brazenly falsely imposed the theory upon the Founding Fathers that they then must be against illegal immigration. Too bad the actual passage was about the importation of SLAVES and how they would be taxed. Face it, Glenn Beck is only an expert on alcoholism and being bipolar, nothing else.
4small, that is just one of Beck's many misrepresentations of history or pisspoor rendering of the Constitution and if you weren't one of his willfully ignorant goons, you'd know that. I know that the 5 minutes of research Beck does on a given topic is 5 more minutes more than you'll ever do so that makes him SEEM enlightened but for those of us who have done, say SIX MINUTES or even SIX YEARS IN COLLEGE worth of research (something Beck couldn't quite do for even 6 weeks) to us he's an idiot.
4small, DEMONIZING policies by aligning and all policies that you don't agree w/ as somehow connected to MAO or HITLER or using words like SLAUGHTER to describe healthcare reform is HATE SPEECH. It's clear that you take Beck's spewings at face value because he relies on a willfully ignorant audience to buy his crap. Actual EXPERTS disagree with not only what he's saying, but the manner in which he presents his facts. His research skills are woeful (probably due to the fact that he's UNEDUCATED).
I thought you libertarians rejected the notion of a political spectrum of left vs right? There is no such thing. It is an invention of communist morons in an attempt to make themselves look like they are some natural part of the world and that there way is just inevitable because the center keeps moving their way. There is only authoritarianism vs freedom, not varying degrees of left and right. You guys need to cut back on all the weed. You're hippies who think you figured out economics.
@ram0166 One's ideals and reality are often different in many ways. Just because, as you say, libertarians believe only in authoritarianism vs freedom without varrying degrees, doesn't mean that they refuse to logically accept the reality which is what this video is about. The reality of politics in the U.S. today is very divided and partisan.
Left vs right is nothing more than a tool of the "left" used to cow us into "compromising" our liberty. They stake themselves out on a position then call people extrememist for not meeting them half way. There is no compromise on freedom. Giving away a little bit of your freedom as a compromise is like giving a vampire a little of your blood. He's going to keep coming back for more and always say that it's because you didn't give up enough the last time around. You people better wake up!
You have a valid point, but in the same breath it is worth mentioning that the religious right (not necessarily conservatives in general) has done that for the past 200 years. Only now do progressives have a venue to change policy the way they really want it. The balance of power has been upset to the point where that pimple faced teenager (dems) have gone beyond rebellion and now want full scale take over of traditional values. (cont.)
(cont.) However, the religious right has been oppressing free thinking and general freedom since the revolutionary war. The freedom of choice is a core human value that we should all share deep within our cores, but the religious right has seen fit to force everyone into their moralistic society through policy. This oppression has caused a great deal of unrest amongst more progressive freedom thinkers. Thus years of oppression of their views has caused a rebellious attitude like that of a teen.
That stuff about a "religious right" is a bunch of crap straight from the DNC. The so called religious right rose in the 70s and 80s as a reaction to government infringement on these peoples rights to raise their children as they see fit and to openly practice and express their beliefs. Where in history is this great repression from the "religious right"? Blue laws? Christmas as a national holiday? God on our money? Where have they ever used the gov't to impose thier beliefs on you?
The fact that you fail to recognize the history of this country is reason enough for me to discontinue trying to make my point. Your seeming inability to see with any kind of clarity the way that religious morals have shaped the laws of this country since it's inception. The very idea that sodomy was illegal in the state I call home until very recently is a prime example of moralistic oppression of the people.
No, your lack of any knowledge of history is a good reason for you to quit. it is painfully obvious the you have no point. Your comments are nothing more than biggoted opinions about people that you have an irrational fear and hatred for. When sodomy was illegal in your state was there a govenment agent standing in your bedroom every night? (or should I say following you into public restrooms?) There are govt agents in every high school interfering with my right to raise my kids as Christians.
"Your comments are nothing more than biggoted opinions about people that you have an irrational fear and hatred for. "
I'm curious, in the light of that statement, what your position is on gay marriage. I believe I can guess.
Anyway, what government agents are interfering with your right to raise your children as christians? What agency do they work for and moreover, how do they do it? How do they actually prevent you from raising your kids with the religion of your choice?
There is no such thing as gay marriage unless you mean being happy. Marriage requires a man and woman and implies the possibility of children. What you are talking about is two immature people playing house together. I have to tell what gov't agents? Well, you're obviously a product of public schools so I will explain. First of all in a Public School everyone is in effect an agent of the government. It's the public school teacher who will undermine my teaching of my children by stating
the THEORY of evolution as proven fact when it is anything but that. In light of the scientific discovery over the last 150 yrs it barely rises to the level of a hypothesis. If a child were to refute the teacher it will be humiliated and chastised for being ignorant, backwards, a radical etc... Then there is the health teacher who will try to undermine the morals I teach them about sexuality and give them the same humilitating treatment if they question it. There is the school nurse who will
hand out condoms and other sex paraphanelia to my children and tell them they don't have to let me know about it. The same nurse and maybe even teachers will counsel my daughters to have abortions and drive them to the clinic where they will get funding and whatever else they need to commit the murder all without so much as my knowledge, let alone my permission. My kids are afraid to express any political or religious views in most of their classes for fear of being harrassed by the TEACHERS.
Well if your kids are anywhere near as uninformed, ill-logical and inconsistent in their viewpoints as you are, then I can see why. Sorry tool, if you want to keep your kids stupid and living in the 19th century, home school them. The rest of the world isn't going to stop teaching their kids real science just because you can't grasp basic scientific, economic, or historical concepts. So why should American schools dumb themselves down for the likes of you and your kids.
And of course, as much as public schools suck, teaching that 2+2=4 does NOT undermine your ability to raise your children as christians or jews or muslims or scientologists or volcano worshipers. If you want to them to hear the earth is 6000 years old and the flintstones is a documentary then put them in private school, which I would support through vouchers. But public school should be religiously neutral and scientifically accurate. FYI, learn what a "Theory" actually is.
Well there it is. Of course by your definition, infertile couples couples couple never be married as there could never be an "implication" of children. As for two "immature" people who want to live their lives dedicated to each other and who deserve the same taxation and insurance opportunities are anything but immature. You chastise liberals for "taking away freedoms" when you openly deny certain freedoms and recognition to a whole segment of the population based on nothing but genitals.
Ram, irrational fear and hatred, you say. Isn't that why the religious right and now many of the teabaggers exist in the first place. It's not a coincidence that much of the focus of the "Religious RIght" were issues like abortion, gay rights, and affirmative action. These were MAINLY white males who didn't want to share power w/ women, minorities or gays & wrapped that irrational fear up in a Bible they've never read just like teabaggers wrap their fears up in a Constitution they've never read.
ram, your rights to raise your kids as you see fit have not changed. You have every right to send those kids to a private school or home school to teach them what you want. But your right to impose your willful ignorance about science and your irrational fear of those not like you on everyone else's kid is not something that the govt should agree to. You're not a LIBERTARIAN, you're a disgruntled neocon dutifully trained to vote for corporatists who don't really care about your social concerns.
@ram0166@ram0166 I'm sorry, but did you say my strive for freedom is somehow biggotry? Lack of knowledge? What country are you from? I'm a GD christian myself, but I'm intelligent enough to recognise when an entire section of society is being shunned because a larger part claims a "moral highground". The same thing is happening in reverse when it comes to climate change debate. One section claims a moral highground, and the smaller section gets shut out of any debate abuot the subject.
@sedatedlife18 If you think there is any "debate" over climate change, then you are sadly uninformed. There is actually a pretty unanimous consent that humans are impacting the climate.
Libertarians also reject slavery, it doesn't mean that slavery doesn't exist somewhere.
Although from a control point of view the two "wings" may seem the same, they do tend to have some deep seeded differences. Libertarians for the most part reject the positions of increased government and embrace those of increased personal freedom. Hence why, usually, Libertarians are ok with private gun ownership and gay marriage from a governance perspective.
As it is, I take umbrage to the implication that Libertarians are all weed smoking hippies with no clue on economic matters. (Some may be, but that is their personal choice) As it is, we are generally in very good company with our economic influences; Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and Ludwig von Mises to name a few...all on the side of individual rights and free markets.
BTW, there have been "wings" in politics long before Marx was a twinkle in his father's eye.
You misunderstood my statement. One thing I see with the leading libertarians is that they mostly came out of the 60's radicalism to accept only the truth about economics but have rejected the moral requirements of a good society. Like the libs they are still utilitarians who put economics and materialism ahead of everything else. You can't have it both ways. A free society with no moral restraint will turn into a nightmare that even Orwell couldn't have dreamed up.
Such as it is, most libertarians (in fact ive never met an exception) believe that personal responsibility is a pillar of the philosophy.
Secondly, many liberals DON'T emphasize the economy enough, or they go about it in the worst way possible. As for the origins of libertarianism, im not so sure what is "radical" about self government, free trade, minimal government with equal application of the law to all.
Liberals don't emphasize economy enough? It's all they talk about. They use it to scare people into giving up their freedoms all the time. They think the material is all there is to live for and hold no value to for anything else.
First you say there is no "left vs right" dichotomy...but you say that the myth is perpetrated BY the left???
Anyway, Liberals pay lip service to economic issues but if there was ever a line of thinking that was anti-materialist (in speech, not in practice), it is leftist. From Jimmy Carter's "live with less" to Marx's "Elimination of private property."
"In the U.S the message is very muted, because the main stream media is able to get all the activists to line themselves up in to a circluar firing line and they all shoot each other. " Max Keiser
This is nothing special. It is true that the republican these days are 'stupid' but democrats these days are 'dangerous.' And the only way to defeat democrats is to vote republicans not join some loser party like the libertarians, even though their are brilliant minds in that party. You wanna win, bring people to your side and restore R's ethics. Don't call everyone 'wingnuts.' Its not the Palin's or the Glenn Beck's that are destroying America and destorting the truth, its the Leftaliban.
Well there is nothing new about the Republicans being stupid or the Democrats being dangerous. Democrats always put their own personal gain and politics (in that order) ahead of everything else. Republicans always place civility and image ahead of the principals they pretend to espouse.
This guy is a pseudo-intellectual hack. Centrism has eroded our freedom dramatically over the past 100 years. Obama, is highly partisan and demonizing - just look at how he talks about insurance companies or bankers? He's a standard populist hard left progressive - nothing more. If someone gave me this moron's book I'd use it as kindling for my fireplace.
You've got it right. This idea of moderation between left and right is how the socialist demons have tricked us into giving up our freedoms. The so called conservatives always seem willing to compromise by only giving away half the freedoms the Dems propose to take away. They want us to credit them for slowing the pace of the growth of government. That's like a personal trainer wanting a bonus because you only gained ten pounds instead of the projected 15.
ram, what freedoms where those? You mean the freedom to not have your phone tapped for the purposes of national security. I know that you think that there's a finite amount of power in the world and ever since the Great Society you've been thinking that because you have to SHARE rights with others who were often denied them before that it means you've dilluted yours but it just isn't the case. The GOP dangles social issues as red meat to get the middle class to vote for their corporatist agenda.
glenn, yep OBAMA should just look the other way when the govt keeps funneling free corporate welfare cash into the financial & healthcare systems and then don't ask for decent results that help the average American in return. He should just keep giving bankers and Insurance companies all the money they want and not hold them accountable for the pisspoor ways in which they spend it. It's not PARTISAN to say here's free money but don't bother accounting for how you spend it. pocket it if you want.
You are a moron. I worked for years in the insurance and financial services industry and I can tell one thing for sure - you don't know shit about it. Avlon's point is that there is some great moderate middle ground available and there isn't. We need to get govt out of these businesses and that isn't in the middle of anyone's agenda. Fyi, priordick, the insurance industry is already highly regulated by the states and the feds - how's that working for ya?
glennd, and a system that takes 50% of all it's costs from the big bad govt should be higly regulated (otherwise stop taking the free money health insurers and start ponying up those expenses yourself). Problem is that, as w/ the financial industry DEREGULATION has led to less protections for the consumers and bigger profits (with failing results) for the corporate communists who run these industries. I do know DICK about how corporatists are pillaging our govt coffers for personal gain, do you?
Olbermann is not the equivalent of Glenn Beck. Grayson is not the equivalent of Sarah Palin.
graemeEf1 3 weeks ago
So true our country is so divided by such crazy propaganda from both sides.
murkythreat 1 month ago in playlist More videos from ReasonTV
A large amount of conspiracy theories are very real. Whenever two or more people get together and secretly plan anything it's called a conspiracy. If the info. leaks out and public officials acknowledge it the conspiracy becomes a fact. For matter public officials rarely actually acknowledge anything unless they are under lots of pressure by the public.
leapingfury 2 months ago
Olbermann and Grayson make a LOT more sense than Bachmann or Beck!
AudiophileTubes 6 months ago
Nobama is bridge builder? What a joke!
9971explorer 6 months ago
I dislike John Avlon. I think Sara Palin is a joke. What this guy stands for is this: he loved the GOP of George W. Bush. He loves amensty. He loves the never ending wars. He's open to hate speech laws. He's for affirmative action. He's for the EEOC. He's against state's rights. He prefers 3 networks on TV. The internet worries him. He is the establishment incarnate. And again I dislike Glenn Beck, Palin. and Bachmann. The rheoteric is more heated b/c the issues facing us are more grave.
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FatReleaseSystem 9 months ago
I love the background. Not your typical decoration in North America. Instead of the stupid box (TV that is) that kills reason and thinking, there are books.
Do Americans actually read books and take the time to reflect? Or most of them watch their preferred TV program and act on what FEELS right?
I hope I am wrong, but my suspicion is the latter is more likely than the former.
Why else would they elect George W. , TWICE!
Or think that Obama is actually Muslim!!! lol
Very good points John..
ManACanadian 11 months ago
I love the background. Not your typical decoration in North America. Instead of the stupid box (TV that is) that kills reason and thinking, there are books.
Do Americans actually read books and take the time to reflect? Or most of them watch their preferred TV program and act on what FEELS right?
I hope I am wrong, but my suspicion is the latter is more likely than the former.
Why else would they elect George W. , TWICE!
Or think that Obama is actually Muslim!!! lol
ManACanadian 11 months ago
The Lunatic Fringe hate extremists on the right and left hyper-partisanship needs to be called out and confronted. We need to get things more bipartisan and moderate and less radical.
johnluke1169 11 months ago
This guy is right about wing-nuts..... but John avlon is a Dumb-fuck.
Who pay's this guy again?
NNo Reason here when the host is a 50 yr old guy still trying to dress like his idols, and im guessing that's the beatels... bafoons
SuperPreciousMetal 11 months ago
This guy is right about wing-nuts..... but John avlon is a Dumb-fuck.
Who pay's this guy again?
SuperPreciousMetal 11 months ago
This is a game. A distraction. Oooh.hes smart. He doesn't like Olberman or Beck. Grayson or Bachman. Wow! The porridge that Goldilocks chose. LoL!!! He just said we've been sold a dumbed down version of American politics. Really? Whoa.I didn't know that. When someone is smirking like a little ho as if they are on to something new or special when they are just talking shit...oh no, it's getting worse.lol. I like John Stewart's spiel better. He can keep a straight face when he talks shit.
FKApathy 1 year ago
Did anyone get any meaningful insight from this guy?
98nafets 1 year ago
how is grayson a wing nut, this guy dont know what he is talking about, watch grayson questions the federal reserve employees
optionsupdate 1 year ago
why is grayson a wing nut?
optionsupdate 1 year ago
I'm sorry but when you try to inject fake nutrality and balance into your argument by putting Allen Grayson in the same level of Michele Bachmann, then you yourself are a lunatic.
danjorgen 1 year ago
2:14
Almost had there ReasonTV.
obliviongreen 1 year ago
What a sanctimonious cunt.
The parties are more polarized than ever before huh, you might as well try to argue that gravity has never been more powerful than it is today. And certainly partisan media is a new thing, newspapers were never like that right?
Figures he'd be the kind of guy to wear cowboy boots with a dress shirt and slacks.
anon2999 1 year ago
I was with him until he gave McCain and Obama as good examples of political sanity,otherwise he said much that is sensible.
sleedolfine15 1 year ago
Did he say wing nuts were always trying to unite us instead of divide us?Hum.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN Obvious mistake
r3v3ng3ofthef4113n 1 year ago
john avlon are you the phil plait of the poltics world? Must be nice making easy money by being a spokesperson and not worry about a paycheck.
dragnet53 1 year ago
Rush's comment was right....look around it's obvious
nudgler 1 year ago
Its not Obama derangement syndrome. Its lack of results. Where he gets it wrong is when he excuses obama from all wrongs and blames the democratic congress. He is a man of ideals and obama is great at speaking rhetorically about ideals. So i can see why he would be drawn to him as a politician. Much of his stuff is accurate and some isnt mainly with his free pass for obama. interesting piece though
internallabrynth 1 year ago
I like how "centrist" come across accusing people with certain beliefs as "wingnuts". He is trying to say that Obama is a centrist?! What planet are you living on? All you have to do is listen to Obama's own words and you can see that he is clearly Socialist. It would be nice if we could all just hold hands sing songs together. We fight against aggressive socialist ideology. We are doing it peacefully. This guy is arrogant, and has no basis for his argument. He is liberal. not centrist.
shaneduffy78 1 year ago
@shaneduffy78 There's a difference between what Obama says and what he does. He has (or at least had) a big social justice platform and the rhetoric for that, but he hasn't implemented any of it. Yes, he's a statist, but nowhere near a socialist.
Income redistribution? I don't see any - in fact, he seems to be leaning towards extending the top bracket tax cut.
Bailout for the big banks? Yep. You know who voted against it? Self-described socialist Bernie Sanders.
Big government =/= socialism.
ConscientiousMind 1 year ago
Right wingers are all wing nuts
Streetmastaalex 1 year ago
@Streetmastaalex that makes you a wing nut
dire8straits 1 year ago
This guy is pulling the classic independents/centrists are great; independents/centrists hold the views of moderate republicans. You should check out this guy's current and past gigs.
ExWizard 1 year ago
wow listen to beck then listen to al sharpton hear which one spreads hate
beingther 1 year ago
I agree with a lot of this guy is saying but I think his points on fiscal conservatism is a bi-product of corporate right wing propaganda that has widely and wrongly pushed the country to the right. To claim that the moderate, or middle ground is center right is not an impartial assessment. The truth is, it is amazing that we are the wealthiest nation in the world, and we still have trouble paying for public services. That is a source of a major problem.
Champraves311 1 year ago
Its interesting that a guy like this can come on youtube, and fairly accurately simply state the condition of politics in america at this point of time, and you get these MORONS coming on here, making idiotic claims about how this guy is an idiot and how he doesn't know anything. Whats with that, it makes me wonder, if i were to tell one of these brain surgeons that the sky is blue today, if they would turn around and say that I don't know what the fuck im talking about
duanescot 1 year ago
if this guy only knew how fucking blind he is...
jfezzy69 1 year ago
nick gilespie needs a less goofball haircut if he expects to be taken seriously
dogcow666 1 year ago 2
So why are the left-wingers "wingnuts" again, aside from the fact that this douche says so? It's telling that he has to go back to the 1960s to find leftists as crazy as the crop of right-wing lunatics that we have to listen to RIGHT NOW.
lawyerly 1 year ago
hahhhaha this guy just talks and talks and talks and continues to talk while there are people out there that are starving dying and are in need. The USA doesent need another talker we need someone that is willing to take risks and actually HELP PEOPLE ! And that includes mexicans, blacks and the impoverished. But I realize that the republican party is not interested in those type of values.
DRDNIBOY 1 year ago
A. What makes this a guy an expert on" Conspiracies or lunatic fringe " being a speech writer for the disgraced Rudy Guilliani ... cross dressing clown that hired and supported KERIK , convicted Felon and mob friend that hired illegal alien . Guy keeps good company .
This Psyops parrot won't mention the FACT over 1000 ENGINEERS ,ARCHITECTS , SCHOLARS, FORMER GERMAN INTEL HEAD ...ARE PART OF THE TRUTHER MOVEMENT , BCS THEN HE COULDN'T FLOAT HIS " lunatic fringe smear " on the Conspiracy People
franz909 1 year ago
Amusing that Olbermann listed Avlon alongside Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh on his "worst of the week" list. A bit ironic, considering the latter two are the sorts Avlon compares Olbermann to. The reason Olbermann gave was pretty silly as well, making the sour grapes more than a little transparent.
rpaxon 1 year ago 2
Avlon, apparently, is a former speechwriter for Rudy Giuliani. He's not pro-war like Giuliani, is he?
whoo689 1 year ago
All left-wing extremists should be shot.
bigbigslacker 1 year ago
@bigbigslacker Step up, tough guy.
lawyerly 1 year ago
John Avlon-
Chief Speechwriter of Republican Rudolph Giuliani
Policy Director for Giuliani's 2008 presidential campaign
Director of Speechwriting for Giuliani in 2008.
Senior Fellow at GOP's Manhattan Institute which was created by Ronald Reagan's CIA Director William Casey in 1978.
Does Avlon seem like he doesn't have a political agenda, does he seem like a person who could treat liberals & republicans equally, does he seem like a person who's not a biased partisan hack playing favoritism.
halcyon0830 1 year ago
a good 7th grade debater could waste you,vague rhetoric few examples,opposite reality of the internet, jesus! can i get a fetter or 2 and talk vacuous and endless,mabeynes MENTAL MASTURBATION GOD! I got to get a life--what am i doing?!?!?!?----- EDWARD R MURROW WAS CHRIST (i though id give you something viable to use) BLEAT BLAEAT ABLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
harpozzz 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Lets See How Much Blood CTer's Have On Their Hands & the price paid for unwanted and unneeded treason & sedition :
930 Jonestown (1) 39 Heavens Gate (2) 74 Waco (3)
168 Oklahoma City Bombing (4) (600 injured)
-------------------------------------------
1211 Tot
(1) : Mark Lane * complicite
(2) : Dividians convinced of Ufo reality
(3) : Koresh: "They" were out to get him
(4) : McVeigh/OCB/Anniversary of Waco
* First conspiracy superstar of the 60's
cdddraftsman 1 year ago
Glenn Beck is a libertarian DOOD.
DMWestWoodElite 1 year ago
@DMWestWoodElite SAYS he's a libertarian. I don't know any libertarian who would consider him more than a libertarian-leaning conservative.
CorrosionX3 1 year ago
@CorrosionX3 I dunno, hes always bashing on the federal reserve and saying that constitutional rights are being violated. Sounds like a libertarian to me.
In other news RAND PAUL WON THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR SENATOR OF KENTUCKY! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DMWestWoodElite 1 year ago
@DMWestWoodElite that's not what makes a libertarian. Being a libertarian is about the principle that it's wrong to initiate force (violate rights to life, liberty and property) against peaceful people to achieve political or social goals.
CorrosionX3 1 year ago
"...these are the professional partisans, the unhinged activists, the uh ya know paranoid conspiracy theorists. The people who are always trying to unite us, rather than divide us." What? Did I miss something. I dismissed the left/right paradigm years ago but I also believe in free will. I also believe that most people are fairly intelligent and self-aware enough to make choices for THEMSELVES. If Obama "gets it" he certainly isn't displaying it. Is this guy just an Obama apologist or what?
Watchman2012 1 year ago
wow, this guy is a fucking moron, wouldnt reasontv and reason magazine be some of his "wingnuts"?
oiuoiu988 1 year ago
If he could "embody and bridge the divides.... then why the hell did he call out that Cop in Cambridge?
He said the Cops acted "Stupidly" even without hearing ALL of the story.
I lost interest in this vid when THAT comment was said.
370ztuner 1 year ago
John Avalon is a wingnut.
xyzoneon 1 year ago
oh man this is awesome, the comments here justify everything in the video
orcgoat 1 year ago 7
@orcgoat Totally. All CT's stand on the same line with religious extremists. Just look at their behaviour. If people disagree with CT's (sceptics & people who are not insane), then the person is either a "psyop", "mk'd", "part of the illuminati", "a satan worshipper", and so on. The best thing they say is "do your research." CT's only do their research on websites that agree with their views; you will NOT find one on a sceptics forum reading the opposing view. That would just hurt their egos.
Edelien 1 year ago
@lowelljohn68, thanks for proving his point. Obviously you wouldn't know a real LIBERAL if one smacked you in the face. You obviously rely on the likes of the wingnuts to inform your opinion instead of taking REALITY into account when you judge a person's political stance.
priorzola 1 year ago
I am more worried about the Radical Center than I am about any Lunatic Fringe.
WadabawSleeve 1 year ago
BTW, the target of Olbermann's rants are corporations, politicians, and the wealthy, people who are perfectly capable of protecting themselves. With Coulter, Beck and Limbaugh, their talking points are aimed at the likes of the poor, immigrants, and 9/11 widows, people who do not have lawyers on retainer who are the least powerful. That's the difference between say Jon Stewart, real SATIRE against the powerful and Limbaugh, CRUELTY disguised as "satire" aimed at those that lack power.
priorzola 1 year ago
This is disingenuous, unlike Grayson or Olbermann, the moderate Left do not parrot their talking points the ways that John Boehner will parrot the talking points of the lunatic right. The reason that we're divided is that the GOP and the neocons who have driven their policies for the last 40 years have failed and frankly (because of Palin and Bush failures) the moderate Republicans either DID NOT vote or voted for OBAMA so they can't counter a person they voted for.
priorzola 1 year ago
Moderates typically dwell in the world of shared FACTS they just have different opinions as to what those facts mean. So since the moderate RIGHT is reeling because of the failures of their policies, it's left to the LUNATIC RIGHT to be the counter to the OBAMA administration. Unlike OBAMA (who does dwell in a world of facts) the likes of GLENN BECK and his entirely manufactured whack-a-doodle ideas serve as legitimate RIGHT WING counter to OBAMA when it is not LEGITIMATE.
priorzola 1 year ago
The moderate Left, for example, do not uphold such "conspiracies" as those that the TRUTHERS hold but what's left of the MODERATE RIGHT will hold up BIRTHER conspiracies. And when dealing w/ the problems of healthcare, instead of arguing about effective ways to cut costs, you get LEADING Republican John Boehner saying "we have the best healthcare system in the world" so why fix it. That's a blatant lie that isn't supported by the facts and is simply a RADICAL RIGHT talking point.
priorzola 1 year ago
For example, Glenn Beck (because he was able to gather 75,000 Americans in Washinton w/ his "9/12 movement') all at once gets handed legitimacy as a spokesperson for the RIGHT but Louis Farrakhan gathered 84,000 Americans to the same mall in the Million Man March but he wasn't all of the sudden given the mantle of spokesperson for the LEFT. By nature of the Million Man March (where less than 6% of the population was targeted) it shows that Beck is REALLY only appealing to about a 5% FRINGE.
priorzola 1 year ago
i talk issue with this dude calling glenn beck a loon seeing as glenn beck is all about independents and pretty dang libertarian leaning...which is pretty much what he said he'd like to see our country become
dirksilver 1 year ago
dirk, I take issue that you call Beck is LIBERTARIAN just because he says he is. REAL LIBERTARIANS know that Beck, like most of the things that come out of his mouth, full of shit when he calls himself a LIBERTARIAN. A real libertarian would not be giving speeches to the CPAC convention of hard core (fake) conservatives. Sorry, Beck has shown his hand enough to prove that like so many modern-day self-professed "libertarians" he's really a conservative embarrassed by conservative policy failures.
priorzola 1 year ago
i didn't call him a libertarian...i said he was libertarian leaning...big difference man
and there's nothing wrong with being conservative i sure am but i'm still libertarian
but you didn't cite anything of worth...but your opinion is yours and you can have that all day long so have fun!
dirksilver 1 year ago
dirk, Beck is on the FRINGES of the RIGHT. That's why he was at CPAC. He is nowhere near a moderate and he often contradicts himself (sometimes in the same sentence). He did not hold Bush to the same standards as he does OBAMA (even though such things as TARP are as much a "Maoist takeover" as healthcare reform). There's nothing wrong with being a "conservative" if you're really a conservative. Fake conservatives loved BUSH (for a bit) and REAGAN even though they left the largest deficits ever.
priorzola 1 year ago
priorzola, you seem to think you know a lot LOL however, you just sound like a raving liberal loon, parroting everything you read on huffington, moveon, kos and hear on msnbc.
bearless70 1 year ago
@bearless70, sorry tool, none of my facts came from any of those places but the average so-called LIBERTARIAN likes to quote Beck as if he's gospel. But If I were anywhere near the kind of talking point machine that the average so-called Libertarian was, you would do a better job at disputing me (because the source of my info would be obvious). Too bad you're defenind BECK-BOTS parading around as "libertarians"
priorzola 1 year ago
@priorzola dang, did Glenn Beck steal your girlfriend in the 6th grade or something? You sure seem to have it in for him.
bearless70 1 year ago
i take issue with what he says about glenn beck seeing as glenn beck is all about independents and pretty dang libertarian leaning...so he'd pretty much be what he wants us to become
dirksilver 1 year ago
Talk of Libertarian views and not a mention of Ron Paul. He also demonizes information on the internet with out giving it credit for so many people waking up to the Polarized lie of politics today. This guy sells snake oil in a good message. Be aware of this when listening to him.
Kyocus 1 year ago
Kyocus, problem is that clearly the likes of you take the information on the internet at it's face value instead of doing the basic research necessary to support your opinion. It's not a coincident that the vast majority of neocon goons like to parrot the exact same talking points because they got them all from the very same UNCITED and UNRESEARCHED sites. The internet is a TOOL for acquiring information and you're a tool if you simply take info from those sites and regurgitate them as facts.
priorzola 1 year ago
Could you please tell me what "the likes of me" are? I try not to take information at face value. I write down what is cited for reference and check it. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy in this video told Dr. Antony Sutton "RIP" that he was a lunatic conspiracy theorist. I am sure that he would call anyone who cites Dr. Sutton's work a lune. I wont call you a tool for making an assumption about me which was unfounded. Now tell me the information I cited with out checking in this conversation.
Kyocus 1 year ago
@priorzola
I think you've mistaken me for a republican. I'm an independent, who agrees with much of what Avlon says in this video. He does, however, hide an ominous message within a good message. I simply like Ron Paul because I agree with his voting record and message. Dehumanizing others is the easiest way to ignore them. Please don't do that, it allows others to control you.
Kyocus 1 year ago
Kyocus, Point being is that too many people get all the support for their political opinions from one or two sources and do very little to fully research if those sources are accurate. For example, many polls have shown that those who rely primarily on Fox News for their information tend to actually be the least factually informed people out there. So to align Olbermann (who is not as factually incorrect) w/ Beck (who very much is) who very much is and polls show this, is disingenuous.
priorzola 1 year ago
I did not touch upon main stream media, because I take no opinion from it. You seemed to assume I was something I am not, and proceeded to try to insult me. Now, once again, tell me what "the likes of me" are. I completely disagree with far left and far right polarized politics. Its an easy strategy to divide and conquer the polls. I also disagree with scare tactics. Avlon in many interview drives this message of being afraid of people who think differently.
Kyocus 1 year ago
The only thing Alan Grayson is guilty of is speaking forcefully and abrasively.
He's not guilty of lying...like Beck and Bachmann, he's not guilty of encouraging violence, of fear (how is making the republicans look bad 'fear-mongering'? It's telling the truth). And Grayson fights for the right things, to help people.
Staticnz 1 year ago
This guy is a pain in the ass...how can he lump Alan Grayson in with people like Glenn Beck and Michelle Bachmann. It's stupid.
Avlon plays this weak game of trying to make everything equal so he arbitrarily plucks out a few brave fighters and throws them in amongst the loons.
There's a difference between being brave, loud and strong...and being a crazy loon.
Staticnz 1 year ago
Good message.
Let's stop focusing on the person, and focus on the issues they are trying to legislate.
You were all blind if you didn't see this Health care issue coming, especially with Clinton in Obama's Cabinet.
She is the one pushing for this.
gjsterp 1 year ago
gjsterp, sorry the VAST MAJORITY of Americans are the one's pushing for it.. It's a long neglected problem that only got worse under Bush. I know that Republicans like to pretend certain issues don't exist or that it's not the govt's job to fix them (even though it apparently is the govts job to pay for 50% of that healthcare and that money more and more goes into a CEOs pocket and NOT to providing care) but it's not a conspiracy for the President to actually ADDRESS our problems.
priorzola 1 year ago
I'm surprised, Reason usually has unique and interesting guests. This sort of talk is as mainstream as the wing nuts themselves.
I'm more concerned with the utter lack of ideology of either party.
The Republicans talk about small government, then turn around and enthusiastically support the drug war.
The Democrats talk about freedom and free speech. Unless, of course, you are saying mean words against "protected" groups. And, if you want the freedom to protect yourself.
Joem734 1 year ago
Hey John. When you buy the means of production with tax payer money, you are a communist. Think GM and Chrysler.
ksullivan66 1 year ago
ksullivan, sorry tool, I'm thinking it was GM and CHRYSLER who came to the govt for FREE MONEY, not the other way around. i know the average neocon has the memory of a gnat but the big bad govt that just gave a failing industry (because it listened to BIG OIL to set CAFE standards for too long) money for failing isn't turning around and DEMANDING that they then build only certain kinds of cars. You really are clueless as to how our economy works.
priorzola 1 year ago
@priorzola Gee thanks for passing on your wisdom. But it really does not matter who came to whom. The govt could have said no. I am amazed at how much you were able to learn about me in based on my short comment. Next time try addressing the statement instead of attacking me personally. Question: Did the gov't buy them or not?
ksullivan66 1 year ago
ksullivan, the govt BAILED them out just like the govt BAILS OUT industry year after year with free money and subsidies. You can alsways go back and ask Engine Charlie (Charlie Wilson--former chief of GM) who owns these corporations (or do the corporations own the govt). You know all that free money that was handed to the likes of Ford and GM during WWII, well that money got good to the auto industry (and the oil industry and the defesne industry, etc). That free money has never stopped.
priorzola 1 year ago
I would agree that the parties are polarized, but if you honestly can't tell there isn't a great difference between them you aren't looking hard enough for their similarities.
Hate is a powerful tool however. But drumming people out isn't something exclusive to Republicans and Democrats. I define myself as a conservative libertarian. Typically where I don't agree with Libertarianism I agree with Pat Buchanan style Paleo-conservatism, or I feel some where inbetween the two.
Silvsilvchan 1 year ago
I've noticed that when I disagree, both Libertarians and Conservatives have an equally volatile reaction. But that's human nature! We dislike those who disrupt our little clubs. Yes, there is a lot of independents who reflect libertarian views. But they aren't 'real libertarians' because some of them are pro-life or believe in minimum wage. Oh noes. Lets keep the party pure, chase the heritics out!
I think we need to work down to which issues are the most important though, and be more relaxed
Silvsilvchan 1 year ago
On others. There is no reason to go nuts on some left leaning fellow just because he thinks social security is a good idea or wants to regulate industry that pollutes heavily. Likewise, just because some right winger is a little militant or pays lightly into social conservatism is no reason for them to be purged.
I think the big four issues were very nicely laid out by Ron Paul when he got McKinney, Nader, Baldwin, and Barr together to point out "We all agree on these important things."
Silvsilvchan 1 year ago
silvsilvchan, the reason you get nearly the same reaction from so-called Libertarians as you do so-called conservatives is that many are the same thing. Former conservatives are now calling themselves "libertarians" because of the failures of Bush but many of them still support those exact same policies. Most so-called "libertarians" wouldn't know what libertarianism was if it bit them in the ass that's why they accept that Beck is one just because he says so.
priorzola 1 year ago
Yes and no. There are some more traditional conservatives in the "Buchanan school of thought" who jumped ship too, and they align more with Libertarians by a long shot, except on social issues. You can see that with Ron Paul too. He is definitely pro-life. I've seen Libertarians use his stance there to say "he isn't a libertarian" more or less because they are using this very narrow definition of what is or is not a libertarian. Though the Bushites should be purged whereever they go. =P
Silvsilvchan 1 year ago
"8:10" But politics was never sane to begin with. The state is the physical manifestation of insanity.
SeamofConsciousness 1 year ago
this guy needs to take his own medicine
ignorant fuck
chowner 1 year ago
Another left wing attack on the right, wearing the skin of a principled logical cnetrist. A huge swing to the right is needed just to get the country back to the center.
leestauf 1 year ago
You mean a swing back to those glory years of the first 6 years of BUSH where our country was attacked, we sent tens of thousands of troops to foreign deserts and mountains w/o so much as a plan for victory, we broke international torture laws, and our entire economy practically collapsed in on itself while we virtually ignored pressing concerns like the environment, education, and healthcare. Oh, and where 3/4 of the wealth went to the top 1% and most Americans LOSS wealth. Oh, the glory days.
priorzola 1 year ago
Yes the obama days are far superior aren't they? The attacks on the constitution, His take over attempt of American health care to increase the size of government (and his control). His tripling of the debt in one year, his complete bankrupting of the country in order to install his own progressive/marxist form of dictatorship, his and the dems compete total disregard for what the citizens demand, that the constitution be adhered to. The dems are responsible for 99% of our financial debt.
leestauf 1 year ago
leestauf, which part of the Constitution has he attacked? Have you even bothered to read the Constitution to even know or are you a typical teabagger who, like the failed Religious Right of old, like to hide their irrationa fear and willful ignorance behind a document (whether it's a Bible or the Constitution) that you've never ever read? 50% of the healthcare system is already paid for by the govt (which means you're subsidized). TAKE OVER as in funnelling money to care instead of CEOs pockets.
priorzola 1 year ago
@priorzola
You're not insulting anyone by using the term "teabagger," you're only showing your immaturity.
hoserPhalanx 1 year ago 14
@hoserPhalanx, I know, why did willfully ignorant hate mongers soil the name of a perfectly good sex act? What did the original teabaggers ever do to a bunch of out of touch old fat white men to deserve such disrespect? What does a sex act between two consenting adults have to do with a bunch of hypocrites who think that they alone can interpret a Constitution that they've never even read? It really is terrible that the teabber NONmovement had to misappropriate a perfectly healthy sex technique.
priorzola 1 year ago
Localism is the soul of the Constitution. Before the Great Society reforms, federal expenditures on healthcare were never above 1% of GDP. Now 8% of GDP. In 1960, 75% of overall health expenditures were private, mostly out-of-pocket, and american families and business were far less indebted than today.
xaviqaz 1 year ago
leeestauf, I know it's better to bankrupt the country fighting illegal wars while borrowing money from the Chinese instead but not by investing in infrastructure and trying to contain one of the most out of control costs for Americans and American business (healthcare). Sorry tool, even capitalist countries have public healthcare (all but ours). The largest debt this country had were left by TWO Republican Presidents, tool. You're so full of talking points but ZERO facts.
priorzola 1 year ago
leestauf, get back to me when you can make it through a whole posting w/o using the word Marxist and can begin to reveal even the basic knowledge of how our economy works. This is why I know so-called "Libertarians" are always full of shit. They bitch and whine about taxes and "fiscal responsibility" but they know next to nothing about how our economy works. Only 2% of all teabaggers realize that under Obama their taxes have gone down. So much for a "movement" based on tax restraint.
priorzola 1 year ago
So, reason tv has joined Bush, Limbaugh etc... don't stick to principles strictly, just kinda sorta when comfortable...
shepardh1 1 year ago
this just another one of those faux moderate hacks that just ends up propping libtotalitarian ideology
aallppiinnee 1 year ago
I've heard that all too often lately; "The parties are more polarized than ever" What? They are closer than ever; they both want the same government control, they just differ on how to achieve it
puremilkgenius 1 year ago 3
This author is a joke. It's been the right wing nuts who started it all and now moderates are finding a voice to counter their vitriol. The author arbitrarily designates them as left for his own agenda.
No one can reasonably claim that Grayson and Olbermann are left wing nuts, the author further demonstrates his bias against moderates with his choice of Olbermann for his cover.
robertmike57 1 year ago
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lenny380 1 year ago
Mr. Avlon,
If standing up for liberty like Michele Bachmann is doing makes one a wing nut then you must think John McCain was the perfect candidate for the GOP.
BrentJ277 1 year ago 2
Yes I have to disagree strongly when he mentions the good will and intentions of people trying to bring the country back to its feet like Palin and Bachmann.
lenny380 1 year ago
Michele Bachmann is shown to be consistently wrong with her ridiculous extremist statements. That right wing whackos can deem her nuttiness as standing up shows they need to be beat back.
robertmike57 1 year ago
Brent, the only thing Michelle Bachmann is standing up for is that $250,000 check that her family farm receives from the govt in the form of corporate welfare every year. Spare me, she's another corporate communist goon who doesn't want those poor uninsured people nipping into the free govt welfare money she depends on for herself.
priorzola 1 year ago
"...The Conspiracy Theorists that always try to unite us rather then divide us." Wow, one honest point.
JPAnimations 1 year ago
To compare Glenn Beck and Keith Olbermann is like comparing Fillet Mignon to Alpo. Obviously, Mr Avlon has never actually watched either of them. Glenn Beck is educational and informative, he educates on our founding principles and exposes threats to our Republic. Unlike Olbermann, Beck is never hateful or vengeful in his presentation. I'm sure Avlon would have labeled Jefferson and Franklin "wingnuts" as well? If defending the Republic makes one a wing nut, then I am one too!
4SmallGov 1 year ago 5
Beck isn't always honest though. I agree with him on a lot of things, but he really likes to demonize and stretch the truth.
I really don't like progressives either, but drawing parallels between them and the Nazis then saying Hitler was a liberal accomplishes what exactly? Calling Hitler a liberal or a conservative, right or left wing completely misses the point of why he was such a terrible human being and that needs to stop.
Silvsilvchan 1 year ago
Silvsilvchan, looking at history to learn from it is going to naturally draw parallels between past & present, that's why we study history in the first place, so we don't repeat it. If one points out the FACT that Nazis were socialistic Fascists and it naturally parallels SOME of the ideology of modern progressives, who is to blame? Do you think when Hitler was 12 he said someday I'm going to kill multitudes of Jews? Is it possible his political ideology played a roll to lead him to that place?
4SmallGov 1 year ago
4small, first of all any REAL historian (of which you clearly are not) knows that there's a HUGE difference between a FASCIST and a SOCIALIST. Second of all, the LAST THING that concerned people about Hitler was his healthcare policy (which in similar forms was adopted by each and every country he invaded eventually). I think the thing that people most despised about HITLER was his way of indiscriminately invaded countries on false pretenses (like BUSH did in IRAQ). Spare me, tool.
priorzola 1 year ago
Beck is not EDUCATIONAL just because he likes to stand in front of a black board and pretend to be a professor (ironic because when he never has been confronted w/ actual professors being that he hardly went to college). Beck MISeducates and has been called out numerous times not for just misrepresenting what the Constiution says but MISrepresenting what our Founding Fathers said. Just because Beck likes to compare himself to the likes of JEFFERSON, he is the furthest thing from it.
priorzola 1 year ago
Care to back that up with an example? tool.
4SmallGov 1 year ago
4Small, Beck tried to render a passage in the Constitution that spoke of "illegal persons", "taxes" and "importation across borders" and automatically assumed it was about immigration and then he brazenly falsely imposed the theory upon the Founding Fathers that they then must be against illegal immigration. Too bad the actual passage was about the importation of SLAVES and how they would be taxed. Face it, Glenn Beck is only an expert on alcoholism and being bipolar, nothing else.
priorzola 1 year ago
4small, that is just one of Beck's many misrepresentations of history or pisspoor rendering of the Constitution and if you weren't one of his willfully ignorant goons, you'd know that. I know that the 5 minutes of research Beck does on a given topic is 5 more minutes more than you'll ever do so that makes him SEEM enlightened but for those of us who have done, say SIX MINUTES or even SIX YEARS IN COLLEGE worth of research (something Beck couldn't quite do for even 6 weeks) to us he's an idiot.
priorzola 1 year ago
4small, DEMONIZING policies by aligning and all policies that you don't agree w/ as somehow connected to MAO or HITLER or using words like SLAUGHTER to describe healthcare reform is HATE SPEECH. It's clear that you take Beck's spewings at face value because he relies on a willfully ignorant audience to buy his crap. Actual EXPERTS disagree with not only what he's saying, but the manner in which he presents his facts. His research skills are woeful (probably due to the fact that he's UNEDUCATED).
priorzola 1 year ago
AVLON is a NEW WORLD ORDER...Guiliani speech writer....
What a dick!!!!
CleRoyster 1 year ago
not the best video.
LibertyandEconomics 1 year ago
People lookup avlons wikipedia page!
he worked for NYC mayor rudolph giuliani who is a RINO.
i am a Republican and if you libertarians want avlon you can have him. lol
Wasp16mm 1 year ago
Like this stuff in Washington is where the power is.
TerrierBram 1 year ago
I thought you libertarians rejected the notion of a political spectrum of left vs right? There is no such thing. It is an invention of communist morons in an attempt to make themselves look like they are some natural part of the world and that there way is just inevitable because the center keeps moving their way. There is only authoritarianism vs freedom, not varying degrees of left and right. You guys need to cut back on all the weed. You're hippies who think you figured out economics.
ram0166 1 year ago
@ram0166 One's ideals and reality are often different in many ways. Just because, as you say, libertarians believe only in authoritarianism vs freedom without varrying degrees, doesn't mean that they refuse to logically accept the reality which is what this video is about. The reality of politics in the U.S. today is very divided and partisan.
sedatedlife18 1 year ago
Left vs right is nothing more than a tool of the "left" used to cow us into "compromising" our liberty. They stake themselves out on a position then call people extrememist for not meeting them half way. There is no compromise on freedom. Giving away a little bit of your freedom as a compromise is like giving a vampire a little of your blood. He's going to keep coming back for more and always say that it's because you didn't give up enough the last time around. You people better wake up!
ram0166 1 year ago
You have a valid point, but in the same breath it is worth mentioning that the religious right (not necessarily conservatives in general) has done that for the past 200 years. Only now do progressives have a venue to change policy the way they really want it. The balance of power has been upset to the point where that pimple faced teenager (dems) have gone beyond rebellion and now want full scale take over of traditional values. (cont.)
sedatedlife18 1 year ago
(cont.) However, the religious right has been oppressing free thinking and general freedom since the revolutionary war. The freedom of choice is a core human value that we should all share deep within our cores, but the religious right has seen fit to force everyone into their moralistic society through policy. This oppression has caused a great deal of unrest amongst more progressive freedom thinkers. Thus years of oppression of their views has caused a rebellious attitude like that of a teen.
sedatedlife18 1 year ago 2
That stuff about a "religious right" is a bunch of crap straight from the DNC. The so called religious right rose in the 70s and 80s as a reaction to government infringement on these peoples rights to raise their children as they see fit and to openly practice and express their beliefs. Where in history is this great repression from the "religious right"? Blue laws? Christmas as a national holiday? God on our money? Where have they ever used the gov't to impose thier beliefs on you?
ram0166 1 year ago
The fact that you fail to recognize the history of this country is reason enough for me to discontinue trying to make my point. Your seeming inability to see with any kind of clarity the way that religious morals have shaped the laws of this country since it's inception. The very idea that sodomy was illegal in the state I call home until very recently is a prime example of moralistic oppression of the people.
sedatedlife18 1 year ago
No, your lack of any knowledge of history is a good reason for you to quit. it is painfully obvious the you have no point. Your comments are nothing more than biggoted opinions about people that you have an irrational fear and hatred for. When sodomy was illegal in your state was there a govenment agent standing in your bedroom every night? (or should I say following you into public restrooms?) There are govt agents in every high school interfering with my right to raise my kids as Christians.
ram0166 1 year ago
"Your comments are nothing more than biggoted opinions about people that you have an irrational fear and hatred for. "
I'm curious, in the light of that statement, what your position is on gay marriage. I believe I can guess.
Anyway, what government agents are interfering with your right to raise your children as christians? What agency do they work for and moreover, how do they do it? How do they actually prevent you from raising your kids with the religion of your choice?
kev3d 1 year ago
There is no such thing as gay marriage unless you mean being happy. Marriage requires a man and woman and implies the possibility of children. What you are talking about is two immature people playing house together. I have to tell what gov't agents? Well, you're obviously a product of public schools so I will explain. First of all in a Public School everyone is in effect an agent of the government. It's the public school teacher who will undermine my teaching of my children by stating
ram0166 1 year ago
the THEORY of evolution as proven fact when it is anything but that. In light of the scientific discovery over the last 150 yrs it barely rises to the level of a hypothesis. If a child were to refute the teacher it will be humiliated and chastised for being ignorant, backwards, a radical etc... Then there is the health teacher who will try to undermine the morals I teach them about sexuality and give them the same humilitating treatment if they question it. There is the school nurse who will
ram0166 1 year ago
hand out condoms and other sex paraphanelia to my children and tell them they don't have to let me know about it. The same nurse and maybe even teachers will counsel my daughters to have abortions and drive them to the clinic where they will get funding and whatever else they need to commit the murder all without so much as my knowledge, let alone my permission. My kids are afraid to express any political or religious views in most of their classes for fear of being harrassed by the TEACHERS.
ram0166 1 year ago
Well if your kids are anywhere near as uninformed, ill-logical and inconsistent in their viewpoints as you are, then I can see why. Sorry tool, if you want to keep your kids stupid and living in the 19th century, home school them. The rest of the world isn't going to stop teaching their kids real science just because you can't grasp basic scientific, economic, or historical concepts. So why should American schools dumb themselves down for the likes of you and your kids.
priorzola 1 year ago
And of course, as much as public schools suck, teaching that 2+2=4 does NOT undermine your ability to raise your children as christians or jews or muslims or scientologists or volcano worshipers. If you want to them to hear the earth is 6000 years old and the flintstones is a documentary then put them in private school, which I would support through vouchers. But public school should be religiously neutral and scientifically accurate. FYI, learn what a "Theory" actually is.
kev3d 1 year ago
Well there it is. Of course by your definition, infertile couples couples couple never be married as there could never be an "implication" of children. As for two "immature" people who want to live their lives dedicated to each other and who deserve the same taxation and insurance opportunities are anything but immature. You chastise liberals for "taking away freedoms" when you openly deny certain freedoms and recognition to a whole segment of the population based on nothing but genitals.
kev3d 1 year ago
Ram, irrational fear and hatred, you say. Isn't that why the religious right and now many of the teabaggers exist in the first place. It's not a coincidence that much of the focus of the "Religious RIght" were issues like abortion, gay rights, and affirmative action. These were MAINLY white males who didn't want to share power w/ women, minorities or gays & wrapped that irrational fear up in a Bible they've never read just like teabaggers wrap their fears up in a Constitution they've never read.
priorzola 1 year ago
ram, your rights to raise your kids as you see fit have not changed. You have every right to send those kids to a private school or home school to teach them what you want. But your right to impose your willful ignorance about science and your irrational fear of those not like you on everyone else's kid is not something that the govt should agree to. You're not a LIBERTARIAN, you're a disgruntled neocon dutifully trained to vote for corporatists who don't really care about your social concerns.
priorzola 1 year ago
@ram0166 @ram0166 I'm sorry, but did you say my strive for freedom is somehow biggotry? Lack of knowledge? What country are you from? I'm a GD christian myself, but I'm intelligent enough to recognise when an entire section of society is being shunned because a larger part claims a "moral highground". The same thing is happening in reverse when it comes to climate change debate. One section claims a moral highground, and the smaller section gets shut out of any debate abuot the subject.
sedatedlife18 1 year ago
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a64bitllama 1 year ago
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a64bitllama 1 year ago
@sedatedlife18 If you think there is any "debate" over climate change, then you are sadly uninformed. There is actually a pretty unanimous consent that humans are impacting the climate.
a64bitllama 1 year ago
@a64bitllama You must be trolling.
sedatedlife18 1 year ago
@sedatedlife18 No U
a64bitllama 1 year ago
Libertarians also reject slavery, it doesn't mean that slavery doesn't exist somewhere.
Although from a control point of view the two "wings" may seem the same, they do tend to have some deep seeded differences. Libertarians for the most part reject the positions of increased government and embrace those of increased personal freedom. Hence why, usually, Libertarians are ok with private gun ownership and gay marriage from a governance perspective.
kev3d 1 year ago
As it is, I take umbrage to the implication that Libertarians are all weed smoking hippies with no clue on economic matters. (Some may be, but that is their personal choice) As it is, we are generally in very good company with our economic influences; Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and Ludwig von Mises to name a few...all on the side of individual rights and free markets.
BTW, there have been "wings" in politics long before Marx was a twinkle in his father's eye.
kev3d 1 year ago
You misunderstood my statement. One thing I see with the leading libertarians is that they mostly came out of the 60's radicalism to accept only the truth about economics but have rejected the moral requirements of a good society. Like the libs they are still utilitarians who put economics and materialism ahead of everything else. You can't have it both ways. A free society with no moral restraint will turn into a nightmare that even Orwell couldn't have dreamed up.
ram0166 1 year ago
"Moral requirements of a good society"?
What moral "requirements" would you have?
Such as it is, most libertarians (in fact ive never met an exception) believe that personal responsibility is a pillar of the philosophy.
Secondly, many liberals DON'T emphasize the economy enough, or they go about it in the worst way possible. As for the origins of libertarianism, im not so sure what is "radical" about self government, free trade, minimal government with equal application of the law to all.
kev3d 1 year ago
Liberals don't emphasize economy enough? It's all they talk about. They use it to scare people into giving up their freedoms all the time. They think the material is all there is to live for and hold no value to for anything else.
ram0166 1 year ago
First you say there is no "left vs right" dichotomy...but you say that the myth is perpetrated BY the left???
Anyway, Liberals pay lip service to economic issues but if there was ever a line of thinking that was anti-materialist (in speech, not in practice), it is leftist. From Jimmy Carter's "live with less" to Marx's "Elimination of private property."
kev3d 1 year ago
I'm going to agree with glennd7962... Avlon is a pseudo-intellectual hack.
sparx832 1 year ago 2
"In the U.S the message is very muted, because the main stream media is able to get all the activists to line themselves up in to a circluar firing line and they all shoot each other. " Max Keiser
Obezeballz469 1 year ago
This is nothing special. It is true that the republican these days are 'stupid' but democrats these days are 'dangerous.' And the only way to defeat democrats is to vote republicans not join some loser party like the libertarians, even though their are brilliant minds in that party. You wanna win, bring people to your side and restore R's ethics. Don't call everyone 'wingnuts.' Its not the Palin's or the Glenn Beck's that are destroying America and destorting the truth, its the Leftaliban.
AnthonyGonzalesClark 1 year ago
Well there is nothing new about the Republicans being stupid or the Democrats being dangerous. Democrats always put their own personal gain and politics (in that order) ahead of everything else. Republicans always place civility and image ahead of the principals they pretend to espouse.
ram0166 1 year ago
Right. Bernie Goldberg got it right, One side lost its nerve (R) the other lost its mind (D)
AnthonyGonzalesClark 1 year ago
This guy is a pseudo-intellectual hack. Centrism has eroded our freedom dramatically over the past 100 years. Obama, is highly partisan and demonizing - just look at how he talks about insurance companies or bankers? He's a standard populist hard left progressive - nothing more. If someone gave me this moron's book I'd use it as kindling for my fireplace.
glennd7962 1 year ago 4
You've got it right. This idea of moderation between left and right is how the socialist demons have tricked us into giving up our freedoms. The so called conservatives always seem willing to compromise by only giving away half the freedoms the Dems propose to take away. They want us to credit them for slowing the pace of the growth of government. That's like a personal trainer wanting a bonus because you only gained ten pounds instead of the projected 15.
ram0166 1 year ago
ram, what freedoms where those? You mean the freedom to not have your phone tapped for the purposes of national security. I know that you think that there's a finite amount of power in the world and ever since the Great Society you've been thinking that because you have to SHARE rights with others who were often denied them before that it means you've dilluted yours but it just isn't the case. The GOP dangles social issues as red meat to get the middle class to vote for their corporatist agenda.
priorzola 1 year ago
glenn, yep OBAMA should just look the other way when the govt keeps funneling free corporate welfare cash into the financial & healthcare systems and then don't ask for decent results that help the average American in return. He should just keep giving bankers and Insurance companies all the money they want and not hold them accountable for the pisspoor ways in which they spend it. It's not PARTISAN to say here's free money but don't bother accounting for how you spend it. pocket it if you want.
priorzola 1 year ago
You are a moron. I worked for years in the insurance and financial services industry and I can tell one thing for sure - you don't know shit about it. Avlon's point is that there is some great moderate middle ground available and there isn't. We need to get govt out of these businesses and that isn't in the middle of anyone's agenda. Fyi, priordick, the insurance industry is already highly regulated by the states and the feds - how's that working for ya?
glennd7962 1 year ago
glennd, and a system that takes 50% of all it's costs from the big bad govt should be higly regulated (otherwise stop taking the free money health insurers and start ponying up those expenses yourself). Problem is that, as w/ the financial industry DEREGULATION has led to less protections for the consumers and bigger profits (with failing results) for the corporate communists who run these industries. I do know DICK about how corporatists are pillaging our govt coffers for personal gain, do you?
priorzola 1 year ago