Antigone by Sophocles (1984 TV) Juliet Stevenson (part 6/11)

[brokley4]

great argument

[AllieMichelleRivera]

Why is creon out of breath?

[xyWb115]

Stick to airhead sports and stay out of philosophy you brainsick nutcase. Antigone was born in ancient Thebes and not Athens. The play is about a brute dictator, Theben injustice and the natural law.

[BryonAWitHonors]

@xyWb115 what does her being born in Athens have anything to do with philosophy? LOLOL idiot. Read any analysis of the play and they state that it was already athenian law, making his edict not as "blasphemous" as she claims.

The play is not about brute dictator. It's about two people who both are in their own respects right, and do everything they can to do defend that. Stay out of theater, and go back to "philosophy" twat.

[BryonAWitHonors]

@xyWb115 Also note how I just stated something I know to be fact, and you went off with insults. You are the empty one.

[jerryvalez]

Now who's talking like a boy?

I'm talking like a King!

[ameeliavirginia]

CREEPY TALKING HEADSS

[ameeliavirginia]

@Reloaded622 FUCK YOU IM A WOMAN AND I COULD F YOU UP.

[Reloaded622]

women belong in the kitchen

[30Zoidberg]

@Reloaded622

[30Zoidberg]

@Reloaded622 lololololololololololololololo­lolololololo

[koenan1]

To: George Lucas

Cc: Michael Bay, Brett Ratner, Hollywood etc

This is a sequel. And it's good.

[speedx50]

NOW this play is getting interesting!!!!!

[KyleBuschKicksAzz]

this is actually incredibly well done!!!

[asiakia123]

*Creon slaps Haimon*

Me: Oh no he di'nt!

[xyWb115]

Antigone ascribes to the highest of human moral, the natural law, that justice is something we intuit, by conscious alone. On the other hand, King Creon, Antigone's uncle on her mother's side, has declared himself, by divine right, to be the incarnation of the law. That law is what he says it is, and not what it ought to be. The contradiction, in this wonderful play is, Creon is a mere man with a mortal mind, so his subjectivity of the law will always be by decree made from fallible reasoing.

[BryonAWitHonors]

@xyWb115 it was athenian law before he declared it.

[jezmuff]

Talk about relevance 2000 yrs later

[annatatton1993]

that slap was awful



[BehindTheSpiderEyes]

Good Lord do I hate the chorus! Otherwise, great play.

[youngakizzle1]

love dis

[i2aymond]

Yes if you are a woman I am! lulz

[andrewsilverfox]

haemon is the best of all

[MrSlothinator5000]

that slap was amazing :D

[00Avenger17]

I feel it would be adequate if vader came in and said "a sense a disturbance in the force.....you have failed me for the last time"

[SexiKittie]

AMEN!!! 1:57- 2:09 HAEMON! AMMENNN!!! EVERYTHING HE SAYS THERE!!!

OMG! THIS IS BEAUTIFUL! and CREON should have done that!

[chazum0]

that slap was weak. haha. either way, good production

[habsmeister09]

I've worked for jerks like Creon. He should have listened to Haemon. This part is one of the best scenes in the play

[Elanel]

@habsmeister09 Creon doesn't see a lot of people who care for him trying to help him. He sees a lot of people he thought loved him betraying and ganging up on him.

Lol, I'm playing Creon. Does it show?

[Ke1raak]

am I the only one who thinks that bricking a woman in a cave with lots of food to die sounds a lot like a sacrifice of some description?

[annikarelliott]

Annika-

His son is begging his dad to be more flexible with his choice because if he isnt he will be caught in a mess which is exactly what happened. If only he had listened...

I can't believe that when his son goes to be with Antigone Creon still doesnt get the message his son speaks with care

[Genjuruhi]

Ah, Antigone. I would be frightened, even if I stand true to what I believe. Natural human nature to be so, even if it's just a little. As much as the fame comes, natural fear can't go away. Bah.

- Ebisucho

[Genjuruhi]

His son tells him what the people want and yet Creon doesn't follow. Isn't he sopposed to be for the people? A wise man WOULD listen, but considering that he hasn't listened to anyone till the end... yeah, Creon's just an angry child, stubborn as he is. 3:57 "It reflects his judgement." If the people dislike the ruler, what does that say?

Strange. 'There will be two deaths'

'Are you threatening me?' And then BAM, he blames his own child, even after his hint of suicide. What. A. Parent...(c)

[Elanel]

@Genjuruhi DUDE! Creon assumed Haeman is threatening to kill /him/, not himself! Obviously he cares for his son! He's a mess at the end, and that's /before/ he even sees his wife!

[bp8120367]

Cicero's views are showed greatly in this part. Haemon opens with 'the ability to reason is one of mans greatest gifts'. I do believe in this greatly, but how does one know that their reasoning is reasonable? Every person differs in opinions, ideas, and beliefs, and reason goes into those.

-Bryn

[hlaw110360]

The chorus say they believe in both. Kreon is angered that he has to take decisions from a boy, and he says that he never bases his political principles on the opinions of the people in the state, and that he is King and will do whatever he wants. This shows how there is no justice or reason to law.

[hlaw110360]

Haemon tries tells his father that as his son it is his responsibility to keep him updated on what people prove or disapprove of. Haemon tells Kreon that he hears sympathy expressed for this unfortunate girl, condemned to a horrifying girl which no women has ever suffered before and unjustly in most peoples eyes in burying her brother, she did something decent and honorable.

[applejuice1000000]

... achieved by Creon, and thus he should not be able to form proper and just laws. However, Creon does not see this, and sadly he pushes on - not able to see how he has wronged, and he will suffer regrettable consequences.

[applejuice1000000]

... it belongs to him!" Creon has become ignorant to the common rules of society, by the simple aspect of justice, and he plans only to follow through with his own judgments. This clip also connects back to cicero's Rule of law. At the very beginning, Haemon talks about how the greatest of a mans gifts is the ability to reason clearly. He also talks about how one can only clearly formulate laws if he/she has perfected reason into wisdom - which is an achievement of few. Wisdom has not been ...

[applejuice1000000]

(AJ) From this clip you can see how Creon is blinded by his new-found power. In the time where Oedipus was king, he was humble, considerate of people's welfare, and said so himself that he did not want the power and responsibility of a king. However now, he doesn't care about the thoughts of the civilians, he doesn't care what other people think and want - the only thing he believes in is his own views and decisions and how in his own words "The state belongs to the statesman who rules it ...

[Vtsan430]

Here we can see that there is a big difference between King Oedipus and Creon, Oedipus in the beginning of Oedipus listened to the citizens and heard their cries of the plague that had come over the city. While on the other hand, Creon seems to think that his laws should depict his thoughts, he does not seem to care much for the people he is running. The decision of Polynices burial was mostly based on his own opinion. (Vivienne)

[Vtsan430]

Haemon: "Listen to the people in the streets..."

Creon: "I have never based my political principles on the opinions of the people on the street... the state is the statesman who rules it, it reflects his judgment, it belongs to him. "

I think Creon here is wrong, a state should be run by the people, the statesman should base his laws on the people because the ordinary citizens is what makes up the population.

[rayleerusso]

I think Creon thrives on being king. He has never experienced this kind of power and does not know how to handle it. However, disregarding what the people of YOUR own kingdom is very immature. A kingdom where the people have no say in anything isn't a healthy one. Eventually the people will rebell and the kingdom will fall apart. Haemon tries to protect his father by telling him the true feelings of the kingdom. He doesn't want for his father to have a bad rep. Creon's to stubborn to listen.

[adioboyy69]

This is a goo argument. They both responded really quickly and with a lot of fiery passion. I think Haemon has a tremendous amount of guts, and this scene really gives you a representation of how much he must love Antigone. I mean, he shouts at and disrespects his father and then threatens his father with him killing himself if he goes on with the rash slaying of his wife to be. oooh drama drama.

[thefeliciat619]

at least TRY to understand how his people felt about the situation instead of locking them out completely.

[thefeliciat619]

to take other people's opinions into consideration. He son says that a large amount of the citizens are saying that Antigone should be honored instead of killed, but Creon STILL refuses to take back his unjust rule. A king is to serve people- not have his people serve him. This is a perfect chance for Creon to serve his people. He could listen to their voices and feel how they feel instead of banishing them from his final decision. I'm not saying that he has to release Antigone. He could

[thefeliciat619]

Haemon is very clever Before he tries to convince his father about Antigone's death, he compliments his father and says that his reputation is so important to him. However, this doesn't work, since his father still refuses to listen to him. Maybe Creon is too full of pride to admit that his rule was unjust in the first place. Would this be a characteristic of a real king? Is he more of a tyrant or a king? I believe that Creon is buried too deep in his role as king and his status that he refuses

[kunals100]

I think that Creon's rage has caused him to make some rather poor decisions, decisions that he will later regret. It seems to me that those who take the throne in Thebes end up discovering that as king of a great city, rage is something that can be ill afforded. I also find it interesting that Haemon is being referred to as a boy by his father. Since average life spans in Thebes couldn't have been more than 35 years old, it seems strange that Creon still hasn't accepted Haemon into manhood.

[justxollie]

Apparently in this section of the play, Creon's son, Haemon is trying to convince Creon so that he would not give Antigone such a brutal punishment. However, if Haemon is trying to convince Creon that Antigone shouldn't deserve a punishment, wouldn't that be called injustice, since he is going against the law by doing so.

[Tara546]

Creon demonstrates his doubt of the justness of his law again in this clip. When asked how he is to put Antigone to death, he says to leave some food for her so that guilt will not fall upon him. If he was so confident that his law was right I don't think he'd be concerned about the guilt of carrying out justice.

I think Haemon speaks very well -- he is not accusatory, & he tries to appeal to Creon by saying that he is concerned for him, his father. I were Creon I would probably agree with him.

[kjopowicz]

COuldn't this also be respect for the gods and allowing for the possiblity that he is wrong? If the gods want to save her, they will.

[bowiiex3]

Haemon is so courageous to speak to his father about Antigone. Creon has set his mind on imprisoning Antigone, even when Haemon comes up with a convincing argument that is supported by the people of Thebes. Like what Haemon said, Creon is judging Antigone irrationally, using his emotions instead of his logic. Haemon made the correct choice by leaving Creon's court for good and lead his own life without any person controlling him. If he stays, his father will just continue to control him.

[holyoak83]

i think in this section it shows creon as a tyrant rather than a king. Even the son says that when the government turns into one man, it is no longer a government. I think that this is very wise and brave of the son to tell his own father that he is no longer fit to be king because he is no longer a team player. you have to have the voice of the people mean something to have balance in the government.

[jacxphi]

(Jaclyn) First of all, I LOVE how when Haemon walks in it looks like he's walking from heaven or something, the lights so bright and the doors are huuge and when the guards open it he slowly walks in as if he's divine or something. Really shows how important and of high status he is in the society. I find the chorus very awkward at some points..they just stand there and watch this whole dialogue go on.

[mgm1994]

"These things are whispered in secret father and they have reached my ears. Sir, your reputation matters to me" Haemon is trying to keep his father in favor with the citizens. He is offering him insight into what the people are thinking, which shows that he still cares about his father and wants to protect him, even though he is sentencing Antigone to death. I think if my dad was sentencing the person I loved to death, I dont think I would still want to help him and look out for him.

[adnannece]

Even though Creon's son was trying to persuade him, he still wanted to punish Antigone. It is obvious that Creon loves his son. You could see that he didn't like having this argument. He had to choose between his own son and his land, which must have been very difficult to do. However, in the end, he still picked his land, and decided to punish Antigone.

[MartinMI6]

...die in the revolt, thus the "second grave". A ruler without the people's support rules nothing, and is equal to powerless. Even the strongest leaders have to win the people over. Even Hitler had to seed this hatred against the Jews for the Germans to support him in the Holocaust. If the Germans disagreed with Hitler, he would never have been able to commit all those atrocities.

[MartinMI6]

Even the chorus is beginning to have doubts and hesitations. When Kreon declares that Antigone is to be sealed in a cave, there is this sort of silence because of how horrible this punishment is. The chorus sort of look around at each other bewildered, and dismayed that their king could come up with such a horrible punishment. 3:52 sums up the situation Kreon is in. If he continues to disregard the populace, he could face more trouble. I'm not sure if this is what Haemon meant, but Kreon might..

[kjopowicz]

Recall that 2 of the chorus try to say the sentence was a mistake.

[AnnieeTing]

This again shows the battle between Law and Justice. At the beginning, when Creon found out that the offender had been Antigone, he seemed really shocked and despaired although he shows no sign of mercy today. I think he's enjoying his power so much that even with his son and many others against him, it only forces him to stand even stronger on the punishment of Antigone so he won't lose face as a King. It'd be even harder for him to step down now,

[denisehbh]

What Haemon is really doing is trying to force Creon into disobeying the rule of law. Though I found his law unjust, Creon was also being just by punishing Antigone, his niece, as he would have punished a stranger. Haemon is saying that Antigone should be exempt from the law, and his threatening to die along with her if she is killed. I think this is a pretty awful thing for a son to do to his own father; to put him in the position of having to choose whether to be just or or to keep his son.

[JamesHar7]

But Denise is it just to persecute someone on the basics of an unjust law?

[denisehbh]

my brain hurts.

Yes i agree with you (james) so i'm somewhat torn as to whether i support Haemon's actions or not. Like I said, on the one hand he is forcing the disobedience of the rule of law upon Creon. On the other, like you said, he may only be doing this because he believes that Creon's law is unjust, which it is. However, I also believe that he is only doing this because Antigone is the one at risk. If someone else had broken the law and their loved one came and argued, Creon would...

[denisehbh]

...have had them both killed.

Does that.. make sense? Haemon knows that because he is Creon's son, Creon may actually reconsider punishing Antigone. Therefore, Haemon is only being unjust and disobeying the rule of law by trying to excuse Antigone from Creon's law, i'm contradicting myself again --> i DONT believe that haemon is doing this because he has strong beliefs against creon's unjust law. I believe he is doing this for somewhat selfish reasons.

[kjopowicz]

Did Antigone consider how this would affect her Haemon? She says later that she would not have done this act for her own child or husband. She flat out says that she could have more (if she them) or marry again. But with mother and father dead she could have no more brothers. Poor Haemon.

[Christine752]

Antigone is just as full of pride as her father. The chorus is right. And just as pride was Oedipus' downfall, so it is Antigone's. Lexie's comment about how, if Antigone only swallowed her pride, she'd probably live, is something I agree with. However, Antigone's pride and unwillingness to change her principles is what got her life in danger in the first place. I still think she's being selfish to die, though; claiming to be like a martyr and that it's her fate to die just makes her seem fake.

[xjohn2006]

What really stuck out to me in this scene was Creon's facial expressions, his grimaces and frowns. An example of such is at 1:51. I think this face says it all.

We see how uncomfortable Creon is while having this conversation with his son. I can only imagine how hard it must have been for Creon to sit there and have his own flesh and blood plead to him for mercy for his fiance. It must have torn Creon up inside, knowing he had to either pick between his son or the law of the land.

[karolynink]

He should have seen this coming and then maybe he wouldn't cause his own son to go through all this suffering. I feel really bad for Creon's son having to go through this and choose between his father and the woman he loves.

AND yes i think Creon should try to listen to his son because he actually knows what is right and has common sense and is smarter than his own father. Creon says, "It is all nonsense." It is not, Creon doesn't know what he's talking about and his son does!

[karolynink]

Creon is a man that stays true to his words and laws and that is not a bad thing. He doesn't even give slack to Antigone who is also apart of the royal chain. However, I believe that Creon shouldn't have made such a law saying no one can bury the dead brother because of course, Antigone would get involved. Did he really expect a family member would leave another family member dead naked on the street and not have a proper burial?

carolyn

[kjopowicz]

Ismene obeyed and for that Antigone calls her a natural subject or weak willed. Creaon does seem genuinely shocked (twice!)when informed that someone has broken his order.

[JodieWYC]

Kreon is right in not allowing for anyone to be exempt from the law, but he should have had second thoughts and entertained the idea to change his law especially when his son was speaking so intellectually, using metaphors such as how a tree branch will snap if it sway with the wind ; because they both paint images as well as apply to what will happen to Kreon's rule if he refuses to adapt. I admire Haemon standing up to his father which no one else did because of their fear of punishment.

[TheDonLau]

Creon is rock solid. I also agree with Euvin that Creon started to lose his royal composure when he was having a verbal battle with his son. Antigone is starting to crack, she is losing her mind. At first, even though i despised her, i respected her rock solidness, but now she is groveling and that makes me despise her even more. Seeking the sympathy of people who can't do anything is the weakest form of pleading. Everybody seems ambiguous right now, they seem to be thinking without reason

[MMA31]

I like how Haemon is being "the voice for the voiceless" representing the women being oppressed. In society, I believe it is important for people to question things, like what Haemon is doing. On the other hand, I also find Haemon going a bit too far. Creon did implement a law on not to bury the body by Antigone still did, so she has to face the consequences. We all know that. Therefore I think Creon is right, he enforced his laws well.

Jason C.

[kjopowicz]

Haemon is Zazou from the Lion King.

[calebiscool1]

Creon remains strong to the idea of antigone's punishment despite the attempts at persuasion by his son. I do agree with euvin that creon lost some of his reasoning for the punishment during the heat of the battle with him son. I think the actor does a very good job at this part because you can really see the anger and his body is shaking at certain parts. It is also quite sad to see Antigone speak to the chorus when she speaks of her certain death.

[120415]

I supported Creon until his argument with his son, which I thought he lost most of his reasoning, and taking an unpopular and unimportant law too seriously. Once popular support is lost for a law, and people who brake this law is praised, The king will face worse catastrophe than if the king pardons antigone, even if she had broken the law knowing what she was actually doing.

Euvin K

[kjopowicz]

Does a leader always do what the people want? WHat if the people are wrong?

[MartinMI6]

But sometimes a leader has to appease the people. If he always does what he thinks is "right" but the people are against his decisions, they will soon grow unhappy. Then this leader may have a revolt on their hands. The nobility of France believed they were doing the right thing, and thought the people were "wrong" but the Jacobins didn't!

[bradfordlex]

Haemon really gets it. Although Antigone gives off this "I did this crime to defy the king and piss him off" kinda vibe, We know she did it out of common decency and for the love of her brother. Before she seemed concerned and now it seems like she just wants to be right and piss the king off. Maybe if she lost her pride she might live....sigh*

[kjopowicz]

And we all know how having to much pride is likely to turn out.

[lotrfreakkk]

aw i feel so bad for antigone, but shes a brave woman. :)

[TheTubeMouse]

Neither Antigone nor Creon are as clear-cut as they appear; they're both ambivalent. Antigone's motives are questionable. She says she is already dead and doesn't appear to value her life anyway, having lost her father and brothers and knowing she is under a curse as they were. She says later that what she did for her brother she wouldn't have done for a husband or son so it's not necessarily about the common humanity she mentioned earlier but Creon's misogyny gets in the way of his judgement.

[whoShartedd]

i just wanna CHOKE the damn king

[born993]

Haha im playing Antigone

[RyokoUeda]

Wow. The king sucks.

[xcolinx182]

This translation is pretty far off of the original text.

[Ke1raak]

It's a translation of a translation, like simplified Shakespearian interpretations

[x5o4aznboix]

hahahaha, amazing tongue twister at 3.42

[DrogbaXLampardXrule]

omg im playing Haemin for my BETC exam im dreading uit lol

[Elanel]

@DrogbaXLampardXrule Haeman is my absolute favorite part in this play. You're lucky.

[TexasWundergirl]

A Complete work of art with a complex story the brings tragedy to a whole new awakening... why cant movies and art stay this way..... i didnt quite catch a full... understanding of the play but now i see antigone is a complete female "Bad-Ass"...lol

[Elanel]

@TexasWundergirl Her holier-than-thou attitude can be /so/ annoying.