PERMACULTURE & PEAK OIL: Beyond 'Sustainability'

[sustainable2012]

permaculturists and mycologists will be the future... get on it

[sustainable2012]

im a permaculturist in law school... I live a duality...

permaculturists develop microsystems of design into their property soas to sustain the property and produce a surplus of value.

permaculture, like IRACing in law school, is a process of observing an ISSUE in the microsystems you design on your property; retracting the LAW of the wild to improve your local ISSUE, and making an Analysis on what can be done to Conclude to create more edge.

[OVESCOIPS]

Thank you David, you are a ray of hope.

[linghun]

If peak oil doom happens, permaculturists will be first to be shot dead for their cute tomato gardens in their isolated "eco-villages" by hicksters, plus when their pitchfork breaks, will they manufacture steel? People wake up from silly fantasies.

[JasonDamisch]

this is very interesting, but I think that the gist of what he is saying, and what he is hoping for, is an out to the End Game. I have heard it both ways, that either A. limited resources, or B. unlimited resources will allow us to stop playing in the End Game and that will save us. Either way we must.

[MrTadblack]

Thank you for the little ray of hope.

[FKLampton]

With an ultra productive polyculture system you can feed 10 people an acre. There are 36,794,240,000 acres of land on earth. There are between 7 billion and 8 billion people on the planet. Thoughts?

[SamCarroll212]

@FKLampton Yes, there are plenty of acres of land on Earth. But how much of that is arable land? How much land has sufficient topsoil to support crops after being subjected to modern monoculture and depletion of water supply? Or, alternately, how many decades or centuries will we need to restore our soil and water to a degree that supports such a large human population?

[Jcolinsol]

Robert Anton Wilson pointed out that resources are conceptual. Material doesn't become a resource until someone imagines that they can be used.

To think that we can run out of resources is like saying that we can run out of ideas.

Recent history is full of people freaking out about an impending loss of resources, and most of these projected events never came about, not so much because the resources were plentiful, but because the old ideas were supplanted by completely different new ones.

[jaymorpheus1]

This coulda taken 15 minutes, not 25.

[planetintelligence]

@jaymorpheus1 Part of the problem... society expects instant gratification and stimulation. You'll spend 15 minutes in the lineup at Starbucks but won't sit still to listen to something vitally important to our sustainable survival. Wisdom of the elders includes learning patience. Listen carefully and stop thinking everything has to fit into the Reader's Digest format.

[MrEnergyCzar]

great points... too bad that even with permaculture the planet can't support 7 or 8 billion without being subsidized by oil....

[TerrierBram]

@MrEnergyCzar Truth. The club of Rome expects that the world population will decline with 5 billion the coming 40 years. #TheFittestOfTheFittest

[FishyMoe]

i love how he describes it... there if there is a lot of energy available, a species will mass together around that source and block out compeditors. As it changes to a lower energy system, symbiosis occurs.

[bbagginz]

Excellent interview.

[ScopedOUT2]

Peak oil is a scam...

[jittysan]

He is absolutely right about not looking from the top and saying "this is terrible". Growing up behind the iron curtain, our house had apple orchards, pears, hazelnuts, walnuts, peaches, apricots, blueberries, strawberries, carrots, peas, potatoes, beans, radishes and a million different currants! I played outside and never ever felt deprived. My grandmother preserved, dried and stored fruit, which she also traded with neighbors.

It wasn't til we moved to the west that I suddenly felt "poor."

[pinkandizyan]

im really interested..

[pinkandizyan]

Can someone Summarize what the guy said..? Please...

[jerthemessiah]

@pinkandizyan Central economic planning by threat of government violence is the key to long term prosperity.

[Jcolinsol]

@jerthemessiah

Creepy.

[OneMove33]

Im interested in permaculture. I need to choose a career would agriculture or horticulture be any good?

[pinkandizyan]

@OneMove33 U feel better if u choose agriculture..

[OneMove33]

@pinkandizyan why is that?

[jerthemessiah]

@OneMove33 There are enourmous profits to be made in agriculture over the next 30 years, There has been little investment in agriculture over the last 20 years. That's about to change. There won't be any money in permaculture without giant government subsidies. You will be reliant on corporate subsidies or subsidies to your business just to stay in business.

[Youmakemefart]

God, I love Hippies. Let's hope things do turn out well, and sense does win over greed....

[Xenostrobe]

06:30 the idea of human systems (ingenuity) to push back the 'environmental debt and some how power on in this direction'. This direction? That is the question, even if aliens came along with far superior technology and offered a 'get out of trouble free' solution what would that mean? Would that mean a lot of erm... wrong doing, moral hazard, injustice, will go unadressed?

[80zoego]

China wants OIL too!!!!

[MrEnergyCzar]

the planet can only support one or two billion people...local is the future...

[newman09]

Our current globalized food market produces a large output, but with a very limited variety; only 8 crops are commonly traded globally. The problem with population growth is that it is closely related to food production. I've heard we produce enough food for 12 billion people, so eventually the population will grow to that number and we will have to produce more food, ever raising the population.

[ccstevens5]

you fools stanley meyer (google or youtube his name) solved this problem in the 70s wake up and stop being slave to these money hungry devils in america.

[OConnellMichael]

Have you replicate Meyer's water engine? or are you just a "fool" like the rest of us..

[tigerbody1]

We really need to reduce the surplus population

before any of this is possible.

[RexHavok]

yep and we can start with you!

[Ahendrickson92]

@tigerbody1 When there is such a surplus and abundance of food, as permaculture establishes, there will be more than enough resources for the huge amount of people in the world. Also, this has already been proven possible because it is being practiced right now.

[Jaylynxyeahh]

..this is boring .

[mangoharebebop]

I urge people to look up his age. His life tells a real story.

[bbagginz]

Excellent interview|

[tigerbody1]

Hmm, why no mention of deep mantle oil?

[trippticket]

@tigerbody1 Probably because permaculture is too busy building a better world.

[tigerbody1]

@trippticket: Well, Peak Oil means nothing since there is so much abiotic oil, so to ignore it is dis-honest.

[trippticket]

tiger, you are perfectly welcome to dwell on this aspect if you want. No one here's trying to stop you.

Permaculture is a brilliant system that 10s of 1000s of humans embrace and celebrate, whether we are beyond global peak energy or not.

Permaculture is not the same as peak oil doomerism, and it's not interested in debating the existence of various other fossil energy supplies.

My previous comment was an attempt to express that concisely.

[tigerbody1]

Auwsume!

The whole point of deep mantle oil is that it is NOT fossil energy, but is there, and once exploited, will foul up the plant

even more than fossil based fuel, mostly because it is practicably limitless.

[wenrolland]

David Holmgren is a very interesting man. He speaks of regeneration, going further than simple sustainability!

[PersianPaladin]

I'm terrified of peak oil.

[tuttt99]

Read the sidebar. The true agenda of the PowerDowners running this organizations is revealed

[randomlaughingman]

Oh yeah, those people that want a sane reality that is actually suited to a planet with biology on it, of this size, they must be the evil ones. Fucking hell you are mad. Plus, why is the comment that was in reply to marked as 'spam' when it has a +1 rating?

[tuttt99]

Do you eat *any* food other than that which you grow or hunt? Do you benefit from modern medicine? Sanitation? Clean drinking water? Do you use or benefit from anything else produced by modern industry? Look hard around your home.

It ALL takes energy. Perhaps you should go spend some time in a third world country where people do not have access to it. Look at how they *really* live.

The world cannot support our current population without energy. 90% will starve or otherwise die without it.

[randomlaughingman]

Perhaps you should do what I did, read up on what proper societies actually work like, realise the one we're meant to think of as any use, is actually a pile of 4th rate crapola that hasn't ever, ever been designed the way that any centralised-services-anything should be designed like, you utter twat. The do some courses or whatever and see for yourself how proper stuff is done. 'the world can't survive' funny how it survived peachy for hundreds of thousands of years before centralised services

[randomlaughingman]

Water and food used to be free and healthy and clean, remember?! Sanitation done right, is a compost toilet DUH. Medicine is trickier, though you may have heard of things like being able to reset bones in the ancient world, and they had medicines for more than what we do. Without side-effects caused by their being un-natural.

[beinghere4u]

start teaching permaculture now and no one will starve!

[mishimoskowitz]

Respecting mother earth IS what we need to focus on. Population should be controlled, maybe by limiting the number of children, BUT NOT FROM EXTERMINATION. Truth is...We can't trust the food supply anymore...and most certainly not the medical community. We don't even have clean drinking water anymore because "they" are dumping poisons into it. And as for the air we breathe....just Google chemtrails. It's all a part of the NWO plan.

[halopa246]

Who said anything about surviving without energy. For those who understand what permaculture is, as well as those who practice active listening, Holmgren said nothing about surviving without energy. Just about every life form on this planet is an energy system powered by the sun. Which of course is the same power source for photo voltaics ( solar ), wind and you could even say hydro. In addition, the world cannot sustain the population infinitely through resource exploitation.

[luminaia]

14:30 - the correlation with nature is extremely insightful.

[firecatgreg]

A more business side and explanation that ties peak oil and economy together, google "crash course".

It's a problem of ever expanding growth beyond what fixed fuels and minerals can support. You can always cry and whine that they hide the oil, coal, fuel, resources, but the fact is exponential growth of populations cannot continue.

He has a good and noble goal, if we all operated out of love and co-operated. Competition = expansion. Good intentioned evolutions = pie in sky dreams.

[permacultureli]

excelent, what a visionary and gentle, positive man. I am working on developing the same discourse in spanish, and planning to make this kind of expository video for the spanish speaking community in the world....this is an ideal model. thank you.

[wenrolland]

Excellent video with an excellent guest! David Holmgren is very insightful. With peak oil (pretty much now), we'll have an economic collapse, I'm sure of it! Come check the videos from the Montreal Permaculture Guild!

[TheMaineShag]

who cares about peak oil, global warming tax. the whole point is to be as independent as possible from government and corporations. We should get off oil and we should stop polluting the planet. We have the power to do it ourselves

[HeweHaarlemmer]

you know I am walking on new ground for me and maybe I got ahead of my self. I want to learn from all you. I currently don't worry about real end of resource peak oil in light sweet crude it does exist we need to extract it, the oil companies are not to blame. I think we really need to be against a carbon tax regulatory system. I hope I am not swimming up stream with the "Co2 global warming tax" is a trap and the science says it was the sun.

[HeweHaarlemmer]

1 - man made global warming is a myth (it's the sun)

2 - peak oil / out of supply is a myth (technology is supressed)

My beliefs can be discovered

Military Indust Fascist state wants me to believe I oppose

[trippticket]

1) Global warming is caused by the sun. Oil and coal are nothing more than stored solar energy. So unless you subscribe to something more...fanciful, that point is agreed upon.

2) I think peak oil will demonstrate itself to you over the next few years. The remainder, and admittedly there's a lot of it, just gets a lot harder to extract as the easy, light sweet crude close to the surface dwindles.

Only time will tell I guess. But personally, I'll take the precautionary principle...

[ninyae]

Hewe, myth or not, how about we think about reducing air pollution just as a quality of life issue? Did we evolve with smog or did we evolve with clean air? The latter being true, then I would rather live a life free of harmful pollutants.

People have caught up with the argument so much that they have lost sight of some of the issues surrounding air pollution.

Also if peak oil is a myth at this time, then are you of a belief that it is an infinite resource?

[polyzygote]

peak oil is absolutely 100% unavoidable, anybody who says otherwise is living in lala-land. the only argument with peak oil is when it will or has already happened.

[HeweHaarlemmer]

peak oil is not real

there is more oil in the world than you can imagine

it may be controlled to appear as though there is a shortage

for real

[HeweHaarlemmer]

oh and man made global warming is a myth

it's the sun - study it

I am really excited about learning how to "permaculture" in canada victoria - okanogan - vancouver

[trippticket]

You're right. There is a lot of oil left on the planet, but it's the peaking event that matters. And we've peaked, "for real," dude. Why are people so blind to what's going on? Look at the banks that require energy (economic) growth to create interest. Floundering. Insurance giants. Floundering. 15% US unemployment (stop believing the mainstream media), and gaining momentum every month.

There are facets of permaculture that are still quite hidden from you obviously. So good luck!

[HeweHaarlemmer]

many facets of permaculture that are hidden from me. yes, I am new to this. I was just saying where not running out of oil, though the hands that control the oil create shortages. I am interested in permaculture because of what is going on to ecomony and agriculture.

[trippticket]

So then my question would be, what is your intention when you make the (very debatable) claim that we're not running out of oil?

Are you encouraging people to turn a blind eye to their own bad habits? Bury their heads in the sand and wait for someone else to fix the problems? If you practice permaculture, you will quickly discover that everything western society is engaged in is utterly unsustainable. Green tech solutions even stop making sense.

Just asking you to consider your words...

[HeweHaarlemmer]

intention is to make sure your not directing your efforts with the idea that no more oil exists. our goals may be the same even though we know different information and one set of info may be wrong though it's practice is good.

"don't bury your head" i agree

my two points initially were

[ninyae]

I do understand what you are saying about corporate manipulation but I also feel that there will come a time when we have to face living without oil and even if that time were 100 years away, I would like to pass on living skills and solutions to the next generation. With economic crashes happening, manipulated or otherwise, survival skills are a good idea. We need to know how to respond, instead of panicing when the shit hits the fan.

[trippticket]

kendanielone,

I'm an ecologist who is very excited about energy descent. My best estimate is that anyone in town who is still financially mobile will try to acquire a little more land than they currently have for gardening and keeping small livestock, but I can tell you from experience that I have an 80'x120' lot a mile from downtown, and I grow ~6000 lbs. of top quality organic produce, several quarts of honey, and over 1000 eggs anually.

[irkone]

Could anyone direct me to a downloadable mp3 of this segment?

[kendanielone]

What percentage of Americans do you think would live in rural areas if we converted to permaculture?

[Rawmodel]

Wonderful video...it will inspire you to do the same. Check out my project at Rawmodeldotcom...

again, great video. Act now while you still can.

[maranatha2000]

Gr8 to hear an optimistic view on the issue. All I've been hearing is doom and gloom. Fanx for postin this vid and expanding my perspective:)

[sciath]

did you watch the video? He had nothing optimistic to say about the future.. he discarded all positive outcome theories and basically said we're on a downward slope with no hope of revival

[irkone]

If you think Holmgren is not optimistic, you aren't too familiar with reality as it is. Listen to some Richard Heinberg or Jay Hanson or Michael Klare or James Hansen or Sir David King. Colin Duncan, James Howard Kunstler, Peter Ward, Robert Jensen, Derrick Jensen, Jonathan Overpeck, James Speth. Just a list of some scientists, historians, activists, philosophers and social theorists who make Holmgren look like the figure of hope for humanity.

[luv2bud]

But "the problem is the solution." The decline and eventual collapse of our current false economy (based on the combustion of fossil fuels) wil finally get us off this accelerating treadmill of bigger - more - faster - faster. In a slowed-down economy, we will actuaaly have time to plant and tend gardens, learn about edible and useful wild plants (maybe they aren't just weeds), spend more time with our families instead of dropping the kids off a day care, and stop fighting with our neighbors.

[Passenger87]

Quite simply it seems the earth is our mother and all the creates that inhabit it are family just need to treat them with respect.

[Passenger87]

Creatures not creates.

[WakingMindsDOTorg]

Basically Trying to Converge The Digital Scene with the Sustainability/Green Scene.

Anyone into this sort of thing?

check it: WakingMinds . Org

[newculture]

Nice interview. Good points on sustainability and permaculture.

[SerVerdadeiro]

LUV

[Chaffinch4]

Europe reached the peak of its sustainability around 1500?! Post PO farming without mechanical aid or artificial fertilizer would be v hard -- especially for a nation where few are farmers or even used to physical labor. Canada has about 3.5 people per sq km compared to Russia (8.5), US (35), Mexico (52), Cuba (101), France (110), China (138), UK (250), Japan (340), Netherlands (478), Bangladesh (1020) and Singapore (1261). I don't have figures for land usable for organic farming.

[Chaffinch4]

Cuba has achieved miracles and after a lot of pain I suspect the US will survive. Not so sure about us Europeans! Can the UK survive on one acre per person? The hard truth is that without cheap energy many countries appear to have population levels that will be impossible to maintain PO.

[egsnyder]

Great mind opener. It's nice to see an expert calmly discussing the powering down of society which is of course inevitable as we deplete the world supply of petroleum.

[tubeuser71]

I am just beginning to think about all of this and i am very happy to have heard your ideas and takes on things. You have got me thinking. I will be actively reading, listening and studying ideas and thoughts on solutions. I hope the solution is a co-operative one. I sincerely hope that self-interest at the cost of humanities interest does not get in the way. Thanks for your thoughts. All the best Scott, Jay and Poe.

[KenMacMillan]

Personaly I like solar. I think we should all put solar panels on our houses & buy electric cars. Also, learn to farm. Food is going to be tough to come by.

[jwallbanger]

peak oil doomsday-ism is a scam people! remember the oil crisis of the 70's! there was no actual shortage, it was a minor shift in oil resource control hyped into a crisis by the oil companies to justify raising the price and overthrow usa price control measures. they bilked the public out of billions with this manufactured "energy crisis." do your homework and you'll find that non-conventional oil can be produced for $30-50 a barrell, and there's enough in the USA alone to last 100's of years.

[KenMacMillan]

The oil crisis in the 70's was when the U.S. reached peak oil. What's comming is global peak oil. Although it's possible, it's not about doomsday. It's a wake up call saying that we need to do something now. Your SUV is NOT safer then a fuel efficient hybrid. SELL IT! Buy solar panels & buy an electric car. Your going to need them.

[jwallbanger]

then why did the big oil companies make record profits during that "oil crisis?" they bilked the public out of billions by making a mountain out of a molehill, and the public to this day doesn't believe they were scammed, they still just buy the propaganda about the whole thing. i'm certain there was even a congressional hearing or something like that about it, where they admitted to manufacturing the crisis, it was the ENRON of the 70's!

[KenMacMillan]

The shift in resource control was an embargo by the Arab members of OPEC, also known as OAPEC. Go to Wikapedia & search "1973 Oil Crisis". Not all of us were born in 1987.

[jwallbanger]

but at the time only a relatively small amount of our oil came from the middle east. the shortage was manufactured, in order to twist our arm into dumping price control measures and then gouge us out of a bunch of money. and my age has nothing to do with it, don't be so shallow.

[jwallbanger]

I LOVE IT! You "enlightened souls" don't like my opinion so you thumb it down until it doesn't show! so much for freedom of speech, eh? I hope you all choke on your sprouts and tofu, because you're no better than foxnews, stupid fucking hippies!

[KenMacMillan]

lol, calm down. Not everyone who comes to this video is a hippie. All you have to do is a search for "Peak Oil resolution in U.S. House of Representatives" & you will find that the U.S. government has formed a caucus for the sole purpose of dealing with the peak oil crisis. If you use Google the first link will be to GlobaPublicMedia(Dot)com where you will also see this line "Shell Oil scientist M. King Hubbert accurately predicted that United States domestic production would peak in 1970".

[jwallbanger]

i don't deny the existence of peak oil, i deny the doomsday theory all the dumb hippies are latching on to. it's like they want society to collapse back to some kind of 17th century farming utopia. they are the ones who make the scam work, since petroleum at it's current price can be easily replaced with coal-to-liquid technology and quite possibly shale oil too. but as long as we believe we're helpless and we just have to pay for expensive gas they can make triple profits on oil indefinitely

[dasorga]

no offence but our an idiot, you say the answer is to use other finite resources, well done mate, all your doing is delaying it!!!!!!!!!!!

[jwallbanger]

oh so it's better to have mass starvation and death? or are you one of those pie-in-the-sky

green technology people? if you are, you certainly have no place calling me an idiot.

CTL will last us hundreds of years, I don't expect we'd actually use it that long, just long enough to mitigate disaster while new, better technologies are developed.

[tarlow00]

I agree that as long as worst case scenarios of catastrophe can be avoided they should be. The fact are that there are technologies that are already better that the prominent oil Companies who control vast capital are suppressing? Many of these industries affecting our global economy go hand in hand check out Who killed Electric Car Movie & book Internal Combusttion How Corporations & Governments Addicted the World to Oil & Derailed the Alternatives. Oil is finite there other energy resources.

[jwallbanger]

yep. electric cars should have replaced internal combustion 20 years ago. but they didn't. I've seen that movie and they blame the willfully ignorant consumer as much as big oil. you can't force solutions on people, if they truly wanted them they would have been here long before peak oil. most people are quite stupid about such things, they want to drive big cars while the gas is cheap and not worry. we have peak oil now and gas cars, CTL is our only real, certain hope for right now.

[HolgerTierramor]

personally, i think its a big illusion the thing with the elctric car- understanding energy concepts, electricity has a much higher energy quality than gasoline...virtually more than 70% of the electricity in the world is generated by burning fossil fuels...

an electric car needs more energy (not at all clean) than a combustion engine....

This film "Who killed the electric car" is not credible for me at all...

[impalapez]

Yeah, at the current system, but in the documentary, they showed how they wanted to develope infrastructure of solar recharging stations...let alone, wind, solar, and tidal power is still a huge possible market,if we can direct all/ or most of those subsidies away from fossil fuels...then how awesome would it be?? Plus you can have SkyTran and or Mag Lev trains...

[Vorticistick]

You have to also remember that using the internal combustion engine spreads pollutants over a much wider area than a power plant, where emissions can be trapped. There are also differences such as chemical additives in petrol which make it more toxic, and the engine needs far more maintenance due to the excess of moving parts compared to electric. Plus, even now the grid is being supplied with nuclear energy, feed in from domestic micro-energy sources, and a small amount of renewable power.

[tarlow00]

Frank Herbert's covered these issues taking into consideration political & social contexts as well. In a Mother Earth News interview he talks about techonologies and modern conveiences we would first want to replace should civilization as we know it end in one of these ways.

[tomterahedrob]

dead on!exactly!

[FerrisWuesten]

you should read about exponential growth and i would like to know your source of information

[Weaseldog2001]

tinyurl dot com/3y44cf

[araniga]

The innovation and capital to solve your global warming problem AND continue economic growth will come from corporations and politicians... the ones you so vehemently despise.

[Weaseldog2001]

Without infinitely increasing quantities of energy, we can't have infinite growth.

Without infinite growth, we have hard limits.

Corporations can't give us infinite consumption until the mass of humans collapses us into a black hole.

They say Malthus was wrong when he argued that an increasing food supply, leads to an increase in human populations, and a decreasing supply leads to a decrease in population. I'm still waiting for an example to prove their case.

[araniga]

you people are talking about devolving into a society where we live in an agrarian economy. where everyone produces raw materials. There is no way that peace would be economically viable under such circumstances.

This is a bunch of rubbish. Living like peasants is not the answer to this supposed "eco-crisis"

[Weaseldog2001]

Peace isn't a part of our future.

[abram730]

Michael Pollan: The omnivore's next dilemma

note at 14:20 the Permaculture output!!!

100 acres = 40,000 pounds of beef, 30,000 pounds of pork, 25,000 dozen eggs, 20,000 chickens, 1,000 turkeys, 1,000 rabbits and add topsoil at the same time.

That is a lot of sustainable production.

Going green does make both dollars and sense.

PS:

an LED can last 80 years and uses little power. We now have LED TV's.

[Weaseldog2001]

We can't get food from farms to market using LEDs. LEDs don't solve any serious problems.

Production levels like you describe need ideal growing conditions. Most of the world has cold winters, hot summers or both.

With a population that is approaching seven billion and growing, we can't feed the world and power our auto-fleet while going on as business as usual.

It would take twelve planet Earths to provide ethanol to power just the cars in the USA.

[Weaseldog2001]

And don't get me wrong, I believe in Permaculture.

I just don't don't believe it can keep us going as a growing consumer based culture.

We're in overshoot now. And we are genetically wired to keep increasing our population. Most of our society just wants more stuff.

Right now, we have billions too many people to sustain. And if we find more food, we'll grow until we bust the new limits, then crash.

We can't grow to an infinite population on a finite planet.

[abram730]

You are correct that there are too many people and that we don't have a sustainable economy.

I'd point out that birth rate is tied to other variables and not a genetic absolute. We can choose to have less kids.

"Hans Rosling: No more boring data"

Not so hopeless

The growth economy is linked to How money comes into being.

Ever see "money as debt" or "money masters"?

This requires growth, and I'd offer that money can be linked to a value like infrastructure.

[abram730]

The idea that we could have 7 billion people living as wasteful as we in America are living and that somehow the earth will be able to support that, is an idea off in lalaland.

I just wanted to point out that this is a problem with many solutions and not hopeless.

[Weaseldog2001]

In theory, population growth is not genetic.

But in practice it seems that there is always population growth, when the food supply allows. it.

This is a bit like the theory that abstinence works, if people use it. But not enough do, and evolution selects those that don't.

During periods of famine, evolution favors those with enough control to decide when to have children. During times of plenty, evolution favors those with no self control.

Not everyone is capable of choosing not to have kids.

[araniga]

If you're going to cite figures, show your sources. please.

[Weaseldog2001]

Which figures do you wish to hear about? World Oil Production?

Natural Gas?

The Zero Solar Power used by a brewery?

[araniga]

all of them.

[Weaseldog2001]

LOL! In 500 chars with no hyperlinks?

The internet is a great research tool. You should learn to use it.

[araniga]

The internet is filled with a lot of rubbish. Use academic research tools such as academic research papers, scientific journal entries, and books written by reputable people.

If you're so bloody keen in this permaculture nonsense, rid yourself of your computer, your car, indoor plumbing, lighting, central heating, and then come talk.

Oh wait, you won't be able to.

Go to school, get educated, and then talk. All you hippies do is turn pseudofacts into religion.

[Weaseldog2001]

As you didn't cite sources or figures, and asked for me to post all of the world's production figures, at this point, it is clear you're just trolling.

Your arguments lead to the notion of infinite growth on a finite planet, with only unfilled imagined theories solving our problems.

Some problems have no solutions.

[nualain]

Anyone who thinks a person can't follow permaculture principles and have indoor plumbing has an inability to think properly and should be ingnored. Probably a nitwit brit.

[HolgerTierramor]

Aparently araniga needs to "Go to school, get educated, and then talk"...

Or try to really "Use academic research tools such as academic research papers" , and not just trust government propaganda & oil industry comercials....

All you happy system-believers, go on believing that this powerful system will save you....we'll see

[Weaseldog2001]

See if you can get YouTube to give us more than 500 chars and HTML markups.

[pzy81]

when was this interview recorded?

[FartheadOgre]

They cut out the part where he says Australia rules mate!!! Fuck America!

[araniga]

This man does voice a good opinion, but his book assumes that the human population will continue to grow. there will be a stabilization of resource consumption. Also, what are this blokes credentials?

[bgturk]

Without oil, the current population of the world cannot be sustained through simple traditional agriculture.

[kiwidunca]

And we are definately running out of oil, with no real alternatives in sight. I predict a massive population decline within a few decades

[sapamm]

In about 1990 I saw a Channel4 film called 'Visionaries' during which Mollison changed my worldview forever. I went and got an education to help heal humanity. That is Holmgren's credentials: he is a visionary leader. Ten years of full-time education have convinced me that Mollision and Holmgren are well-ahead of any of the parasitic 'experts' who will soon be attempting to 'lead us' through the problem. Fuck the 'experts' (politicians and corporations), read Derrick Jensen and lets roll.

[araniga]

you're basing your entire view of the world based on one film?

Visionary leader does not count as credentials.

This eco-mentalist movement is anti-corporate sentiment disguised as concern for the environment. Be anti-corporate, thats great. I have many beefs with corporate activity. But don't present it as a genuine concern for the planet.

[sciath]

Its scary to think about the fact that grocery stores, while seemingly so plentiful in food it gives off the illusion of an infinite resource, only hold less then a week's supply.. if the shit hits the fan it'll take less then a week before people go hungry and when someone's kids are starving they will do anything

[seth553]

Scaith, we (in the US) are trained to believe that unlimited economic growth is the key to success and happiness. Just not true. It's natural to resist change, but the ability to adapt is what keeps us alive.

Pay special attention to Holmgren's words about species becoming more co-operative in low-energy ecosystems. No "gated communities" anymore (see Jared Diamond). Support a local organic farmer by joining a CSA, and learn a low-energy trade. That's how we prevent the grocery-store riots.

[Soressi1]

@seth553 These guys lose credibility to me because they don't credit Sepp Holzer, who is the originator of permaculture back in Germany in 1962.

[sustainable2012]

@Soressi1

Sepp is awesome... david knows though about the economic/ecological paradigm and can transcend many young minds and serve his purpose without always referring to Sepp... we're not trying to create any deities here

[colliedogjoy]

Great stuff.

[Magnulus76]

He has some interesting ideas, but so much of it just sounds like eco-anarchism with a dash of Ludditism.

[fingal42]

You're assuming there's something wrong with those points of view. Anarchism is a very misunderstood philosophy (people equate it with terrorism, which is nonsense). Luddites are misrepresented as people who fear technology; but really they wanted to avoid starving to death when their jobs were threatened. It's our current situation which is dangerous, not people with fresh insights.

[Weaseldog2001]

He'll sound much more sensible to you in a few years.

Wait and see.

[voxdevox]

Imgagine - Shake Flashlights.

Imagine an in home device with about 900 of them !! in furace sized device. - Powering 3/4th of all Power in home.

so then

Imagine Going to bed (lights off, TV OFF)

- thanks to sleep hours (900 shaken batteries still shake by a use of simple Back/forth magnatisim between the tubes walls - (when power use is low// a second Battery collect EXCESS energy - SO (100 percent power provided to homes)

[Weaseldog2001]

Those work because LED lights need very little current. Most household appliances consume much more power. You couldn't shake long and hard enough to keep them going.

Imagine life without a refrigerator or freezer. These are luxury items that we may not have the power to operate in ten years.

Without these, what foods will you grow and eat? What will you store and how?

[abram730]

solar and wind can power many things. What we can't power is our agriculture. We will need permiculture.

A car uses about 6% of the energy in one gallon of gas to move. So 94% is wasted... think of that at the pump.

You can make a freezer with pipe, urine and sunlight. That's zero power other then the sun. The ideas are here, It's the will to fight for the very existence of humans we need more of.

[Grundsan]

Yeah, in scandinavia some informed people have been working with it with seminars after seminar, but it is not taking off yet.... It is still easier to go to the supermarket and buy some convetional food, and whatever china-trash they desiiiiiiire, maaaan - wake up folks, listen careful to this fine guy.... Planet earth is suffering from strangulation...

[Ninyae1]

Here in Australia more and more people are converting their backyards as according to Permaculture and Organic farming techniques. None of these things would have happened without the work of David and Bill. Thanks to the drought a revolution is happening in water harvesting and Permaculture has provided references for innovation for 30 years in relation to that very topic.

[TonyKaku]

lolahiroshima must be totally clueless (hey, that kind of childish rhetoric IS fun!). Decentralised zero-emission energy, eh? Name one example that even comes close? (And do us the favour of not ignoring the manufacturing of solar panels or wind turbines.)

[lolahiroshima]

This guys is totally clueless! A move back to some kind of agrarian lifestyle is the least useful solution. Technological developments today are allowing for a continuous increase of high-efficiency, decentralized zero emission energy.

[Ninyae1]

You fool, Iolairoshima, you have no idea who you are labelling clueless! Pull your foot out of your mouth first and find out a bit about the man before you jump in with your vilification. He and Bill Mollison have done a lot more at turning this blind consumerism around, in the last 30 years than you could imagine, at the very least by the example they lead.

[voxdevox]

Keeping the eye on the Expotential growth -

any idea is acceptable - especially in the United States -

[jphwacheski]

Great interview,. Permaculture is the path to human survival,. the EMPIRE state, 'free' market capitalism, and the radical over-consumpsion that they encurage have lead humanity down a dead-end path. The sooner we wake up stop beleving the lies on TV, and begin to find sytems that work, such as Permaculture, the less dieback there may be when the OIL runs out.

[colefordham]

Fantastic Insight. I plan on attending David's permaculture course when he comes back to Victoria (Australia). Agrarianism will ultimately be our only hope. The paradigm is changing...

[matapouri1]

Thanks for that. Good to see that some people can express some clear thoughts on how we could get out of this mess.

[Pemmaloo]

David. Would you marry me? xoxoxox Pemmaloo!

[Myrmecia]

Great! Think carefully about what he says about "sustainable consumption" and the implications. But will 100 million Dick Cheneys, rednecks, Pentacostalists and Wall Street bankers buy it? No, David, a peaceful Permaculture powerdown is pie-in-the-sky. Wish I could share your optimism!

[keyanage]

good explanation of permaculture / peak oil/ free energy and renewable energy...... especially point of everyone expecting some science fiction energy to save us all and pay back our environmental debt.

[cloudmonkeys]

excellent