love can be explained by chemical reactions in the brain.. i.e it can be proven with science. how can you use this as a metaphor to try and prove the existance of god? the two have absolutley no correlation..
you seem like a nice guy, and i almost hate to disagree with you but your arguments rly is quite shit, and it kinda drifts towards the end. sorry dude, but you really didnt convince me
...other emotions and what conflicts they bring up that we have to deal with. This all leads back to the idea that the only "meaning" life has is the meaning you give it. If you find fulfillment in the pursuit and maintenance of a loving relationship, then that is a perfectly valid choice. Others may choose different routes, with varying degrees of success and perceived fulfillment. There is no theism necessary in this view.
...to recognize what may cause those chemical emotions to misfire, or linger longer than they are useful. Love, for example, is designed to encourage us to find an optimal mate and raise children together. It conflicts (in the male) with the impulse to spread our seed as often as possible to increase the likelihood that more offspring will survive. Using our higher brain functions we can now choose which impulse to follow. At least some of us can. A little thought can lead you to the cause of...
I know this is an old video, but I want to throw in my two cents worth. Your question pre-supposes that emotions are irrational. That's not the case. They are survival-logic shortcuts that have become chemical over the course of our development as mammals. Now that we are capable of identifying logic and using it in cold retrospect, it appears that emotions such as love, fear, jealousy, etc, may at times be illogical. But if you can identify the usefulness of an emotion, you will also be able...
Part5: Love, fear, anger, jealousy etc. may well sometimes be irrational feelings that may lead to irrational thoughts but so what. It's the decisions we make and beliefs we have that need validation and explanations and the people that base those on irrational thoughts and feelings will have a hard time with that. This is why religious people can't accept atheist's belief that gods are imaginary. Hope this answers your question AllieCaulfield. I live near Vancouver, small world.
Part4: I do however feel a need for justifying what I believe to be reality with logic and reasoning and I try to make decisions based on logic and reasoning and not emotion, but it doesn't always happen that way. Atheists don't live a life devoid of irrationality, no one does. The difference, I believe, is that atheists have an ability to spot irrationality in situations where rational thought and logic apply. A chosen belief in the Christian God is a good example.
Part3: Everyone does however have the choice of what they believe is real and true and it's up to them how they arrive at their conclusions. I tend to avoid fairy tale stories for my basis of reality, but that's what I decided through rational thought and not emotional fulfillment. As irrational as emotions may be, I feel no need to justify them with logic and reason in order for them to be valid because logic and reason do not apply - ask any woman :-p.
Part2: For example, if a person were not exposed to a religion, as a child or adult, they would have no religious beliefs at all and even the word God would be foreign and have no meaning. However, everyone (regardless of race or place of birth) has feelings and emotions as part of their genetic being and don't need to learn what love or hate is in order to experience it.
Part 1: Well, interesting question. I am going to assume that you are thinking that there is a degree of hypocrisy when atheists (such as myself) disregard religion due to irrationality all the while living a life full of irrationality ourselves. I think you confusing conscious thought and beliefs with emotions and feelings. They are not the same.
I would count myself as an atheist, because I don't ascribe to any particular religion. I do put a lot of stock in logic and reason too, as do many (if not most) atheists, but I don't think that this really has a lot to do with my atheism.
I'd say I only respect these values as much as the next person, and I welcome the prospect that there are things that we can not and will never fully explain.
you seem to me to be quite intelligent and open to honest debate/discussion. You would probably enjoy my paper on ethical nihilism, i'll send you a copy when i'm complete if you'd like.
two, the golden rule of "do unto others..." is literally, as close one will come to a logical consistency in the world of the social sciences, it is reasonable to assume since you don't want to die, that you shouldn't kill. By the same token, it is also reasonable to assume that since you want to be close to someone and make her feel good, they want to do the same for you. This is love as i have come to understand it, without the abstract,the abstract is unknowable, irrational and subjective.
You make some very good points and you effectively answered my question. But I would argue that most people view love abstractly. you are consistent on this matter.
Another very good response that you should check out is by Jihunn - Irrationality and religion
whenever one is discussing the social sciences, real science is at a loss...The idea of love as we have come to know it today is irrational on the grounds that it is abstract and subjective, i would argue that there are two origins that make a "loveish" state of mind a preffered reality. One, the evolutionary advantageous traits have been those of solidarity and altruism, this can in turn spring a love like emotion through evolution and natural selection...(ran out of room yet again)...
"I would argue that if you try to rationalize love like *i love so i can get love in return* or *i love because it makes me feel good* like a hedonistic approach, you've minimized the significance of love, love means nothing if its purely because you get something out of it", your analysis and understanding of love, in my view, was on point until this comment. This is where you crossed from the objective into the subjective. This is an argument from personal conviction...(ran out of room)...
I can tell you what I don't do, and that's say things like you atheists, or you white people, or you black people, or you asian mexican or gay people. Life isn't that cut and dry. We're all people, and we're atheists and religious zealots and angry and happy and rich and poor. WE all make mistakes and do well and learn and teach. I've met so many people like you, who've visited several countries, read a few books and feel they're now experts.
I wrote this to an rare atheist girl in the Philippines. "Love?.. I guess if we explain it simply, love is a body /mind instinct to breed. Like hunger it tells us when the body need to eat or we die. With out Love we wouldn't have intercourse with each other, then we humans would all die off. =D What do you think of that Girl? Do you like Love too? There are differences the way Men and Women love because of our own natural needs. Do you know what I mean? "
Love may feel irrational but that's because it is an incredibly strong emotion that needs to be powerful enough to motivate actions. A good parallel is fear. Fear is an emotion that would make a person flee from a Grizzly bear, thus ensuring survival. In short, people that react in these ways ultimately do better. Further evidence of natural selection, if you ask me.
UCCOMIC. I think you just described 'natural selection",something found in wild animals . What makes us fare better than other animals is our metal ability to overcome emotions such as fear.
I agree that our mental abilities have made us fare better. Our brain is our great advantage, as the great power and sharp teeth of the Great White is its advantage. Understanding our fears yet working with them is what's happened. I suggest to you that fear is still very prevalent, as you would find out if you were ever swimming in the ocean with the above-mentioned Great White.
First of all, you articulate the atheist position very well, so clearly you actually listen to points being made, so kudos to you. I don't think love is quite as irrational as you make it out to be. Humans are social or pack animals (like say wolves or ants) who achieve far greater success by working together and helping one another.
I believe love is rational because it encourages procreation and protection of our offspring as well as the protection of our species through compassion for one another. With that said, on occasion, it is necessary for you to get mad in order to defend yourself, your loved ones, or even your species.
Love has been explained by science to be the way we can find the RIGHT partner. (good dna match) That's why we humans give off fermones threw our bodies to attract a good match.
That's why we don't go and fall in love with our sister "In THAT, i wanna children with you way".
Because she has a similar DNA. It's all about evolution really!
Religion, however, makes claims of truth. Christianity claims that there is a God who punishes(or forgives) people for their sins, who created the Earth (6,000 years ago, depending on the Christian), etc. You get the idea. Applying rationalism to emotions doesn't make much sense to me, because rationalism is about the evaluation of what is or is not true.
Oh, furthermore, I recognize that NOBODY is fully rational, but I view rationality as a goal, so to speak. It's best to try to fit your beliefs to rationality as much as possible.
You do ask a very interesting question-- one that I have myself given some thought to. My best answer is that love is not a claim of truth the way religion is. Love is an emotion, in which certain person makes you incredibly happy, such that you seek to make them happy in return. The fact that it's an emotion doesn't make it any less special.
we have a difference of values you and i. you value empiricism because you see nothing else. i see empiricism as a peculiar bias. that doesn't mean i'm retarded or backwoods. it just means i'm different than you. the best book to describe this way of thinking is in zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance by robert pirsig. i could explain it but i'd have to copy the entire book.
you are one arrogant motherfucker. i have no problem with your refusing to believe in god. i could care less. my faith in god is for me alone. your faith in no-god is for you alone. i know now that your reality is confined to a box and you believe everything outside that box is stupid and ignorant. the truth is, i am much more open minded than you.
what assumptions have i made? if do not agree with my claim that almost all of the philosophers up until the 20th century came from christian background, just pickup some literature on the subject.
i think you are afraid to admit that many people you respect and admire from history have been open to the existence of god.
'any problems or concerns with life a person has, is to to their conscious mind and what they've put in it!'
so what does that mean? to me it implies that we should be able to grab the bi-polar and schizophrenic people and say 'whats wrong with you? stop being so goddamn emo!' and it would just work.
because after all... its only in their conscious mind.
not writing religious texts no but they draw from religious texts. heavily. nietzsche's anti-christ or jung's man in search of soul.
you should try not to approach internet discussion with such bombastic 'im smart and you are dumb' language because it really sounds like you're over-compensating for something.
well you did say something to the extent that there is no need to use theological archetypes to access the subconscious mind because there is nothing in the subconscious mind that isn't put there by the conscious mind.
the correct answer would be 'well yes the subconscious mind is like a treasure chest of answers to people's psychological hang ups. if the chrisitian images help then thats cool'
but you just dismiss everything i say because it isn't 'god doesnt exist and i smoke pot'
i also get the impression that you have no value for the subconscious. can i assume that you are completely aware of all of your brain functions? i only operate at 10%... so i guess i'm a retard =o
well im off to drink beer and plow the fields of creativity and love. bye!
i don't know where you get the idea that im ignorant. or that if i was to start thinking just like you, i would stop being ignorant. i'm just trying to figure out how you think.
your claim that NONE of the bible stories hold any practical value is beyond me because all the great philosiphers of the 20th century and before... came from christian abckgrounds and draw from christian imagry. granted, they often leave the faith but that makes no difference to my argument.
"Love means nothing if it's purely because you get something out of it."
Why? Obviously I'm not going to pursue an unrequited relationship but what self respecting person would invest themselves into loving someone if they get nothing out of it? Getting something in return is a key part of love.
Love is just a word we use to describe the feelings we feel for the opposite sex. It is an evolutionary trait nature naturally developed for us to keep us mating and producing off springs.
Emotions like love are not rational in the strict sense that you use. But then again, (for example) is the desire to live really any more rational than a death wish? It depends on what you value, and your values are largely determined emotionally. Many <i>rational</i> decisions we make are based on a value system that says that "love is a good thing."
why do you think its sad that someone would want to use theological archetypes to access the subconscious? even if you believe that religion is nothing but a bunch of stories, how could you deny that those stories don't contain profound philosophical and psychological points? and how could you just throw it out because some people have used it or encountered it as a fear tactic or as a crutch for their insecurities?
see... this is one point where logic fails. i'm talking about people who are raised catholic and love catholic theology but still dont believe in god. they consider themselves atheist but for whatever reason they like going to mass and staying connected to those archetypes. maybe they find them useful?
i never claimed to be original with my faith, something that i could not explain to you in a youtube comment. nor would i bother, lest it land on deaf ears.
i feel if you were to watch some of my videos, you would not think me an idiot. try any of my nine on my main page.
yeah, love a lot of times is nothing more than biological grease. sometimes people let themselves go enough to experience more in their lifetime. but in most cases, biological grease. nadiateeze is right. it's not solely about rational thought. it is about not making shit up when you don't understand something. it's about owning what we know, and always pursuing what we don't.
i've been known to be totally irrational about a lot of things, haha. but religion is the crucial thing. that's where buckling down with common sense is really needed. that's what's killing us.
Well, love is a basic and necessary social mechanism, and an evolutionary adaptation that inspires us to take care of our children and stuff. Religion is a cultural mechanism and an unnecessary one at that. Sure religion can bring people together for a common cause, but it can also unite them against each other. I agree both are irrational but love doesn't cause suffering or inhibit our intellectual growth like religion does.
For the longest part of my life I rejected everything irrational, including love: I didn't love. Not my parents, not my brothers or my sister. At age 10 I said "I don't care about learning anything that machines cannot understand". My idea of love was an altered mindstate due hormones, pherormones and a lot of psicological components. My goal was to develop a drug of synthetic love just to prove love to be meaningless.
Today I do love, and I DO know it's irrational, but I don't care a lot really. Still, I think love is intrascendent but not always meningless. I still have a lot to learn about being a human, but I got to apreciate love and even embrace it's weird lack of logic.
Love isn't actually irrational. If you look at it from a evolutionist point of view, the love that a mother/father has for their children is based on a sense of totally defense for that child. Without this love and nurture, human children could never survive since they stay dependent for such a long time. The same goes for spouses. This is the rationalization of love, although at some points, the things we do for love seem irrational.
and tho I believe this, i do not believe it means nothing. Finding someone who you would risk your life to defend and protect is not to be understated. The fact you found someone who is so special to you for to deserve your undying protection is reason enough to be irrational at points to win their love as well.
the differnce between the irrationality of love and the irrationality of religion is that people usually dont go out and kill another person because their love belongs to a different person than the one they love. However in religion, all too often are people killed because they do not share the same beliefs.
I will not argue that many times, violence does break out over the same girl, but that is rational since two or more people want the same thing. However with religion, two people who love/believe in two different things fight... which is irrational, unless you understand the motive behind many currupted relgions.. power.
Love, speaking strictly from a biological perspective, is not irrational. Love is a sensation brought about by the driven need to procreate The feeling of love, as experienced by humans, varies from person to person and between the sexes. Humans were not intended to be monogamous This feeling of love provides a bond between the people that enriches the relationship in order to procure sufficient time for the rearing of young. Love can be sufficiently recreated by chemically induced states
I don't need any scientific evidence to prove God does not exist.i mean in my opinion.love...Sometime ago I read in an scientific article when you are being in in love it feels like having taken cocaine or something!I am a crazy person, so I am full of irrationality.and there is plenty of evidence for it.
Good question. I think the difference lays with the fact that our emotions are an integral part of us and do not require justification as opposed to our beliefs. I don't think a comparison between beliefs and emotions is accurate though.
Regarding love and hate. What is acceptable is what tends (generally, not always) to be stablizing in society and promotes life. Love tends to do that, hate does not. Even some types of love, like jealous love or pedophila, are not acceptable b/c it is destablizing to society. You don't need religion to figure it out, just some contemplation.
Just for arguments sake, say emotions are irrational.
But how did you go from "ppl have emotions and can be irrational" all the way to "God exist?" Everyone knows emotionally irrationaly exists cause there is evidence for it, we can see it in action, but there is no evidence for the existance of God.
what am I a vulcan? atheists aren't against human emotion. all, and I repeat, ALL we (atheists) have in common is a non belief in any gods. We don't have a universal code book of rules. We just don't believe in any god(s). So your, atheist=only rational thought arguement is wrong. atheist=non belief in any gods. period. Vulcan=only rational thought.
despite what nadiaTeeze, I think vulcans behaved irrationally when it came to love as well (I like star wars though and am not a trekky so don't quote me)
as others have said though already, emotions are not necessarily irrational in a social socirty. Large groups can't function well without a means to become a cohesive and unified group. Emotions help us in this way.
I agree on a number of things. And I'd say that "irrationality" is an idea that comes of things having inherent uses and rules, but as most things don't have that, most things are irrational. However, we may irrationally use a thing and end up liking the outcome. This doesn't make it rational, but it does make it something we're more likely to use again.
love can be explained by chemical reactions in the brain.. i.e it can be proven with science. how can you use this as a metaphor to try and prove the existance of god? the two have absolutley no correlation..
you seem like a nice guy, and i almost hate to disagree with you but your arguments rly is quite shit, and it kinda drifts towards the end. sorry dude, but you really didnt convince me
xxiluvbrianmolkoxx 3 years ago
...other emotions and what conflicts they bring up that we have to deal with. This all leads back to the idea that the only "meaning" life has is the meaning you give it. If you find fulfillment in the pursuit and maintenance of a loving relationship, then that is a perfectly valid choice. Others may choose different routes, with varying degrees of success and perceived fulfillment. There is no theism necessary in this view.
MaxWilder 3 years ago
...to recognize what may cause those chemical emotions to misfire, or linger longer than they are useful. Love, for example, is designed to encourage us to find an optimal mate and raise children together. It conflicts (in the male) with the impulse to spread our seed as often as possible to increase the likelihood that more offspring will survive. Using our higher brain functions we can now choose which impulse to follow. At least some of us can. A little thought can lead you to the cause of...
MaxWilder 3 years ago
I know this is an old video, but I want to throw in my two cents worth. Your question pre-supposes that emotions are irrational. That's not the case. They are survival-logic shortcuts that have become chemical over the course of our development as mammals. Now that we are capable of identifying logic and using it in cold retrospect, it appears that emotions such as love, fear, jealousy, etc, may at times be illogical. But if you can identify the usefulness of an emotion, you will also be able...
MaxWilder 3 years ago
Part5: Love, fear, anger, jealousy etc. may well sometimes be irrational feelings that may lead to irrational thoughts but so what. It's the decisions we make and beliefs we have that need validation and explanations and the people that base those on irrational thoughts and feelings will have a hard time with that. This is why religious people can't accept atheist's belief that gods are imaginary. Hope this answers your question AllieCaulfield. I live near Vancouver, small world.
theslimeylimey 3 years ago
Part4: I do however feel a need for justifying what I believe to be reality with logic and reasoning and I try to make decisions based on logic and reasoning and not emotion, but it doesn't always happen that way. Atheists don't live a life devoid of irrationality, no one does. The difference, I believe, is that atheists have an ability to spot irrationality in situations where rational thought and logic apply. A chosen belief in the Christian God is a good example.
theslimeylimey 3 years ago
Part3: Everyone does however have the choice of what they believe is real and true and it's up to them how they arrive at their conclusions. I tend to avoid fairy tale stories for my basis of reality, but that's what I decided through rational thought and not emotional fulfillment. As irrational as emotions may be, I feel no need to justify them with logic and reason in order for them to be valid because logic and reason do not apply - ask any woman :-p.
theslimeylimey 3 years ago
Part2: For example, if a person were not exposed to a religion, as a child or adult, they would have no religious beliefs at all and even the word God would be foreign and have no meaning. However, everyone (regardless of race or place of birth) has feelings and emotions as part of their genetic being and don't need to learn what love or hate is in order to experience it.
theslimeylimey 3 years ago
Part 1: Well, interesting question. I am going to assume that you are thinking that there is a degree of hypocrisy when atheists (such as myself) disregard religion due to irrationality all the while living a life full of irrationality ourselves. I think you confusing conscious thought and beliefs with emotions and feelings. They are not the same.
theslimeylimey 3 years ago
I would count myself as an atheist, because I don't ascribe to any particular religion. I do put a lot of stock in logic and reason too, as do many (if not most) atheists, but I don't think that this really has a lot to do with my atheism.
I'd say I only respect these values as much as the next person, and I welcome the prospect that there are things that we can not and will never fully explain.
leonardski89 3 years ago
good point
making this video has taught me the fact that being an atheist means very little.
AllieCaulfield 3 years ago
you seem to me to be quite intelligent and open to honest debate/discussion. You would probably enjoy my paper on ethical nihilism, i'll send you a copy when i'm complete if you'd like.
awhelnaw 4 years ago
I'd love that.
thanks
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
two, the golden rule of "do unto others..." is literally, as close one will come to a logical consistency in the world of the social sciences, it is reasonable to assume since you don't want to die, that you shouldn't kill. By the same token, it is also reasonable to assume that since you want to be close to someone and make her feel good, they want to do the same for you. This is love as i have come to understand it, without the abstract,the abstract is unknowable, irrational and subjective.
awhelnaw 4 years ago
You make some very good points and you effectively answered my question. But I would argue that most people view love abstractly. you are consistent on this matter.
Another very good response that you should check out is by Jihunn - Irrationality and religion
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
whenever one is discussing the social sciences, real science is at a loss...The idea of love as we have come to know it today is irrational on the grounds that it is abstract and subjective, i would argue that there are two origins that make a "loveish" state of mind a preffered reality. One, the evolutionary advantageous traits have been those of solidarity and altruism, this can in turn spring a love like emotion through evolution and natural selection...(ran out of room yet again)...
awhelnaw 4 years ago
"I would argue that if you try to rationalize love like *i love so i can get love in return* or *i love because it makes me feel good* like a hedonistic approach, you've minimized the significance of love, love means nothing if its purely because you get something out of it", your analysis and understanding of love, in my view, was on point until this comment. This is where you crossed from the objective into the subjective. This is an argument from personal conviction...(ran out of room)...
awhelnaw 4 years ago
This dude just pulls shit out of his ass and pontificates. He loves himself and thinks he's so prfound.
Stepanchik 4 years ago
What do you do?
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
I can tell you what I don't do, and that's say things like you atheists, or you white people, or you black people, or you asian mexican or gay people. Life isn't that cut and dry. We're all people, and we're atheists and religious zealots and angry and happy and rich and poor. WE all make mistakes and do well and learn and teach. I've met so many people like you, who've visited several countries, read a few books and feel they're now experts.
Stepanchik 4 years ago
Well said Stepanchik, We are those thing and all things in between!
jojo808 4 years ago
I wrote this to an rare atheist girl in the Philippines. "Love?.. I guess if we explain it simply, love is a body /mind instinct to breed. Like hunger it tells us when the body need to eat or we die. With out Love we wouldn't have intercourse with each other, then we humans would all die off. =D What do you think of that Girl? Do you like Love too? There are differences the way Men and Women love because of our own natural needs. Do you know what I mean? "
jojo808 4 years ago
you don't need an understanding of the universe because you've made one up
WPharolin 4 years ago
what's your fucking question? It's 2 minutes into the video
srini208 4 years ago
Love may feel irrational but that's because it is an incredibly strong emotion that needs to be powerful enough to motivate actions. A good parallel is fear. Fear is an emotion that would make a person flee from a Grizzly bear, thus ensuring survival. In short, people that react in these ways ultimately do better. Further evidence of natural selection, if you ask me.
uccomic 4 years ago
great points
thanks
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
UCCOMIC. I think you just described 'natural selection",something found in wild animals . What makes us fare better than other animals is our metal ability to overcome emotions such as fear.
jojo808 4 years ago
I agree that our mental abilities have made us fare better. Our brain is our great advantage, as the great power and sharp teeth of the Great White is its advantage. Understanding our fears yet working with them is what's happened. I suggest to you that fear is still very prevalent, as you would find out if you were ever swimming in the ocean with the above-mentioned Great White.
uccomic 4 years ago
First of all, you articulate the atheist position very well, so clearly you actually listen to points being made, so kudos to you. I don't think love is quite as irrational as you make it out to be. Humans are social or pack animals (like say wolves or ants) who achieve far greater success by working together and helping one another.
uccomic 4 years ago
I believe love is rational because it encourages procreation and protection of our offspring as well as the protection of our species through compassion for one another. With that said, on occasion, it is necessary for you to get mad in order to defend yourself, your loved ones, or even your species.
RegressLess 4 years ago
I am an athist: Good video and a good question =)
Love has been explained by science to be the way we can find the RIGHT partner. (good dna match) That's why we humans give off fermones threw our bodies to attract a good match.
That's why we don't go and fall in love with our sister "In THAT, i wanna children with you way".
Because she has a similar DNA. It's all about evolution really!
Salladsdressing 4 years ago
(cont)
Religion, however, makes claims of truth. Christianity claims that there is a God who punishes(or forgives) people for their sins, who created the Earth (6,000 years ago, depending on the Christian), etc. You get the idea. Applying rationalism to emotions doesn't make much sense to me, because rationalism is about the evaluation of what is or is not true.
ZippoNick 4 years ago
Oh, furthermore, I recognize that NOBODY is fully rational, but I view rationality as a goal, so to speak. It's best to try to fit your beliefs to rationality as much as possible.
ZippoNick 4 years ago
great comments
thanks
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
You do ask a very interesting question-- one that I have myself given some thought to. My best answer is that love is not a claim of truth the way religion is. Love is an emotion, in which certain person makes you incredibly happy, such that you seek to make them happy in return. The fact that it's an emotion doesn't make it any less special.
ZippoNick 4 years ago
we have a difference of values you and i. you value empiricism because you see nothing else. i see empiricism as a peculiar bias. that doesn't mean i'm retarded or backwoods. it just means i'm different than you. the best book to describe this way of thinking is in zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance by robert pirsig. i could explain it but i'd have to copy the entire book.
gu88766 4 years ago
you are one arrogant motherfucker. i have no problem with your refusing to believe in god. i could care less. my faith in god is for me alone. your faith in no-god is for you alone. i know now that your reality is confined to a box and you believe everything outside that box is stupid and ignorant. the truth is, i am much more open minded than you.
gu88766 4 years ago
so now people's hang ups on life are separate from psychological problems? enlighten me more, master.
gu88766 4 years ago
what assumptions have i made? if do not agree with my claim that almost all of the philosophers up until the 20th century came from christian background, just pickup some literature on the subject.
i think you are afraid to admit that many people you respect and admire from history have been open to the existence of god.
gu88766 4 years ago
right here... look.
'any problems or concerns with life a person has, is to to their conscious mind and what they've put in it!'
so what does that mean? to me it implies that we should be able to grab the bi-polar and schizophrenic people and say 'whats wrong with you? stop being so goddamn emo!' and it would just work.
because after all... its only in their conscious mind.
gu88766 4 years ago
not writing religious texts no but they draw from religious texts. heavily. nietzsche's anti-christ or jung's man in search of soul.
you should try not to approach internet discussion with such bombastic 'im smart and you are dumb' language because it really sounds like you're over-compensating for something.
gu88766 4 years ago
well you did say something to the extent that there is no need to use theological archetypes to access the subconscious mind because there is nothing in the subconscious mind that isn't put there by the conscious mind.
the correct answer would be 'well yes the subconscious mind is like a treasure chest of answers to people's psychological hang ups. if the chrisitian images help then thats cool'
but you just dismiss everything i say because it isn't 'god doesnt exist and i smoke pot'
gu88766 4 years ago
i also get the impression that you have no value for the subconscious. can i assume that you are completely aware of all of your brain functions? i only operate at 10%... so i guess i'm a retard =o
well im off to drink beer and plow the fields of creativity and love. bye!
gu88766 4 years ago
i don't know where you get the idea that im ignorant. or that if i was to start thinking just like you, i would stop being ignorant. i'm just trying to figure out how you think.
your claim that NONE of the bible stories hold any practical value is beyond me because all the great philosiphers of the 20th century and before... came from christian abckgrounds and draw from christian imagry. granted, they often leave the faith but that makes no difference to my argument.
gu88766 4 years ago
it is interesting that my thinking is making your brain hurt. maybe its a good thing?
you pitty me because i don't have all the answers and i pitty you because it seems as though you have stopped asking questions.
gu88766 4 years ago
"Love means nothing if it's purely because you get something out of it."
Why? Obviously I'm not going to pursue an unrequited relationship but what self respecting person would invest themselves into loving someone if they get nothing out of it? Getting something in return is a key part of love.
On a side note, your videos are pretty cool.
4rged 4 years ago
thanks for the sub
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
Love is just a word we use to describe the feelings we feel for the opposite sex. It is an evolutionary trait nature naturally developed for us to keep us mating and producing off springs.
c0mputar 4 years ago
think of the beatles, man! think of the beatles! you arn't one of those blue meanies are you? ahhh!!!
gu88766 4 years ago
now i understand this talk is getting out of hand for youtube comments so feel free to link me to a blog or vlog.
my connection to the internet is going to be sketchy for the next few days so it might take a while for me to respond.
gu88766 4 years ago
is that how you sum up the teachings of christ? that other people are like you? what about the death and resurrection? what does that mean to you?
i assume you also believe that the writings of nietzsche and jung and kant and hume are also common sense? and also that they were idiots?
gu88766 4 years ago
Emotions like love are not rational in the strict sense that you use. But then again, (for example) is the desire to live really any more rational than a death wish? It depends on what you value, and your values are largely determined emotionally. Many <i>rational</i> decisions we make are based on a value system that says that "love is a good thing."
CousinoMacul 4 years ago
why do you think its sad that someone would want to use theological archetypes to access the subconscious? even if you believe that religion is nothing but a bunch of stories, how could you deny that those stories don't contain profound philosophical and psychological points? and how could you just throw it out because some people have used it or encountered it as a fear tactic or as a crutch for their insecurities?
gu88766 4 years ago
see... this is one point where logic fails. i'm talking about people who are raised catholic and love catholic theology but still dont believe in god. they consider themselves atheist but for whatever reason they like going to mass and staying connected to those archetypes. maybe they find them useful?
gu88766 4 years ago
i've been redeemed from being an idiot to merely illogical. yay!
speaking of ill logic, how do you feel about catholic atheists?
gu88766 4 years ago
i like how we both dont care to explain.
but seriously take a look at my recent video and tell me what you think.
gu88766 4 years ago
why do you choose 666 before your name? do you fancy yourself as some kind of mad king?
gu88766 4 years ago
i never claimed to be original with my faith, something that i could not explain to you in a youtube comment. nor would i bother, lest it land on deaf ears.
i feel if you were to watch some of my videos, you would not think me an idiot. try any of my nine on my main page.
gu88766 4 years ago
i honestly could care less if you ever figure out what i'm talking about. your ego is blinding you.
gu88766 4 years ago
i like this one. great commentary.
gu88766 4 years ago
i would say religion is not to explain the unknown but rather to explain the known that is unexplained by current science.
gu88766 4 years ago
Ramble on dude
julesdogg 4 years ago
yeah, love a lot of times is nothing more than biological grease. sometimes people let themselves go enough to experience more in their lifetime. but in most cases, biological grease. nadiateeze is right. it's not solely about rational thought. it is about not making shit up when you don't understand something. it's about owning what we know, and always pursuing what we don't.
AshMangus 4 years ago
i've been known to be totally irrational about a lot of things, haha. but religion is the crucial thing. that's where buckling down with common sense is really needed. that's what's killing us.
AshMangus 4 years ago
Well, love is a basic and necessary social mechanism, and an evolutionary adaptation that inspires us to take care of our children and stuff. Religion is a cultural mechanism and an unnecessary one at that. Sure religion can bring people together for a common cause, but it can also unite them against each other. I agree both are irrational but love doesn't cause suffering or inhibit our intellectual growth like religion does.
JustPlaneNuts 4 years ago
For the longest part of my life I rejected everything irrational, including love: I didn't love. Not my parents, not my brothers or my sister. At age 10 I said "I don't care about learning anything that machines cannot understand". My idea of love was an altered mindstate due hormones, pherormones and a lot of psicological components. My goal was to develop a drug of synthetic love just to prove love to be meaningless.
tubesusedtobeboring 4 years ago
Today I do love, and I DO know it's irrational, but I don't care a lot really. Still, I think love is intrascendent but not always meningless. I still have a lot to learn about being a human, but I got to apreciate love and even embrace it's weird lack of logic.
tubesusedtobeboring 4 years ago
All in all, love for me is still a drug, an adiction and a social desease; but now I know it's not necesarily wrong.
tubesusedtobeboring 4 years ago
great comments
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
Two aspects, personal and society.
We benefit from everyone else's work and contribution, otherwise we'd be in caves wearing buffalo skins.
Love, helping-out and other constructive emotions help others and thus society as a whole, so its advantageous for everyone.
Hate is not advantageous to society and can even be detrimental, thus if everyone hates and acts on hate everyone suffers.
Rickdeckard2020 4 years ago
good point
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
Love isn't actually irrational. If you look at it from a evolutionist point of view, the love that a mother/father has for their children is based on a sense of totally defense for that child. Without this love and nurture, human children could never survive since they stay dependent for such a long time. The same goes for spouses. This is the rationalization of love, although at some points, the things we do for love seem irrational.
keeponblinking 4 years ago
and tho I believe this, i do not believe it means nothing. Finding someone who you would risk your life to defend and protect is not to be understated. The fact you found someone who is so special to you for to deserve your undying protection is reason enough to be irrational at points to win their love as well.
keeponblinking 4 years ago
the differnce between the irrationality of love and the irrationality of religion is that people usually dont go out and kill another person because their love belongs to a different person than the one they love. However in religion, all too often are people killed because they do not share the same beliefs.
keeponblinking 4 years ago
I will not argue that many times, violence does break out over the same girl, but that is rational since two or more people want the same thing. However with religion, two people who love/believe in two different things fight... which is irrational, unless you understand the motive behind many currupted relgions.. power.
keeponblinking 4 years ago
good point.
VelvetRope1814 4 years ago
I am an atheist
I don't care how irrational someone is in his or her own life.
I do care when they impose irrational thought on others who do not share in the irrational belief.
Examples of this would be door-to-door theists.
Lobbies for prayer in school, Creationism in school.
Laws restricting the rights of a group people based on sexual orientation, gender, race, belief.
Everyone has irrational thought.... expecting others to share in it is where the problem lies.
memoryofakiss 4 years ago
great point
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
Love, speaking strictly from a biological perspective, is not irrational. Love is a sensation brought about by the driven need to procreate The feeling of love, as experienced by humans, varies from person to person and between the sexes. Humans were not intended to be monogamous This feeling of love provides a bond between the people that enriches the relationship in order to procure sufficient time for the rearing of young. Love can be sufficiently recreated by chemically induced states
tribidemp 4 years ago
Are you Canadian?
THExBENJ 4 years ago
yes
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago
I don't need any scientific evidence to prove God does not exist.i mean in my opinion.love...Sometime ago I read in an scientific article when you are being in in love it feels like having taken cocaine or something!I am a crazy person, so I am full of irrationality.and there is plenty of evidence for it.
luxcretia2 4 years ago
i really like this video. i never thought about it this way. good thinking!
6parts7 4 years ago
i love 'six parts seven.' they are so great. ^.^
AshMangus 4 years ago
Good question. I think the difference lays with the fact that our emotions are an integral part of us and do not require justification as opposed to our beliefs. I don't think a comparison between beliefs and emotions is accurate though.
Mudriy 4 years ago
Regarding love and hate. What is acceptable is what tends (generally, not always) to be stablizing in society and promotes life. Love tends to do that, hate does not. Even some types of love, like jealous love or pedophila, are not acceptable b/c it is destablizing to society. You don't need religion to figure it out, just some contemplation.
converse02 4 years ago
Just for arguments sake, say emotions are irrational.
But how did you go from "ppl have emotions and can be irrational" all the way to "God exist?" Everyone knows emotionally irrationaly exists cause there is evidence for it, we can see it in action, but there is no evidence for the existance of God.
converse02 4 years ago
Just curious... how does a Canadian get to drink mate?
Yell0wGuy 4 years ago
I would think moderate people with different beliefs
lead similiar life styles.Atheists have the same human needs as anyone else.
A1RFburns 4 years ago
I don't get how love is irrational.
handygeek 4 years ago
This really is not a question for atheists. But as a primate, I am full of irationality. You could ask someone who thinks he is not a primate ;)
GodlessLife 4 years ago
what am I a vulcan? atheists aren't against human emotion. all, and I repeat, ALL we (atheists) have in common is a non belief in any gods. We don't have a universal code book of rules. We just don't believe in any god(s). So your, atheist=only rational thought arguement is wrong. atheist=non belief in any gods. period. Vulcan=only rational thought.
nadiaTeeze 4 years ago
despite what nadiaTeeze, I think vulcans behaved irrationally when it came to love as well (I like star wars though and am not a trekky so don't quote me)
as others have said though already, emotions are not necessarily irrational in a social socirty. Large groups can't function well without a means to become a cohesive and unified group. Emotions help us in this way.
live long and prosper.
aletoledo1 4 years ago
I agree on a number of things. And I'd say that "irrationality" is an idea that comes of things having inherent uses and rules, but as most things don't have that, most things are irrational. However, we may irrationally use a thing and end up liking the outcome. This doesn't make it rational, but it does make it something we're more likely to use again.
azrienoch 4 years ago
Interesting
AllieCaulfield 4 years ago