California NAACP, Agape International Spiritual Center's Rev. Michael Beckwith, Rev. Eric Lee of the SCLC of Greater Los Angeles and civil rights icon Rev. James Lawson ALL SUPPORTED gay marriage.
70% of Blacks in California SUPPORTED real marriage. So called leaders who go against the majority and the WILL of the people do NOT stop the truth or deter the vote. Gay marriage rejected by ALL 31 states where it was put on the ballot. As long as I have the choice I will vote for real marriage.
Just because the majority supports something does not make it right. Throughout history there have been majorities that have supported terrible, bigoted, even murderous policies, and it has been a minority that believed otherwise. A majority alone does not make something right.
GoddoesNOTcreategays: says "According to ur logic, we should make hetero marriage illegal because of what it might lead 2."
-We know what real marriage leads too!
Ur anaolgy comapres Homosexual deviancy to real marriage. It's very different - Using other deviant groups & labeling them hetero is nonsense.
You don't have to agree with what I say, that's fine. Understand, you can NOT force me to accept the unacceptable. As long as I have a vote I will vote YES to REAL MARRIAGE.
Nikki, "real" marriage leads to love, commitment & support between 2 consenting, adult partners.Both gay & straight couples fit this bill. Your persistent, but unfounded, claim that homosexuality is more "deviant" than heterosexuality is easily disproven, since it's heteros who commit the majority of incest, polygamy, etc. Of course I will never accept what is based on irrationality, myth & fear. I trust the LORD to know what He's doing when He creates gay people. His will is good enough for me.
2 consenting adult partners? That can be percieved as a hinderance! Poly's & cousin's fit this bill as well! Commit the most deviant act? THEY ARE ALL DEVIANT!
1. Why not 3 consenting adult partners?
2. Why not an unlimited amount of consenting adult partners?
3. Why not consenting adult relatives?
4. Why should marriage have a 2 limit & genderless requirement?
5. Should consenting adults be denied anything?
6. Every license has rerquirements. i.e. drivers license, identification, etc.
Nikki, you presented selective data which did not offer any empirical proof of anything, & you are ignoring the facts. Heteros commit most of the "deviancy" you are so worried about, so if anyone's right to marriage must be prohibited to stop the spread of these acts, straight marriage would have to be the first to go. But, you are not going to deny YOURSELF of special rights, I presume.
And what makes you think being gay isn't normal? It's a part of nature, just like heterosexuality.
Hetero Marriage is NOT deviancy. Hetero's who deviate from normal acceptable behavior are DEVIANTS, just as ALL homo's. I do NOT support ANY FORM of deviancy. I WILL ALWAYS VOTE NO TO DEVIANCY regardless of the offender's sexual preference. Real marriage is NOT special rights it's JUST RIGHT! What you fail to realize is that deviant groups are barred from marriage accept a few states allowing Gay marriage. Polygamy, Polyandry, BIGAMY Incest are all CRIMINAL ILLEGAL ACTS! Being Gay LEGAL!
But, of course, gay marriage is not a deviancy, any more than a str8 marriage is. Both are unions between 2 consenting adults who wish to share a spiritual/romantic/physical love for their partner. But if you want to deny all gay couples the right to marry based on what a few oddballs on the outskirts of society demand, then you'd have to prohibit hetero marriage on the same basis. Being gay & being straight are both legal, so there's no valid argument against them ALL having equal legal rights.
Gay marriage is no way comparable to Real marriage! If we allow one form of deviancy what will stop any others? If we say just 2 consenting adults why not 3 or without limits? It is legal to be Gay & that's good enough, they have civil unions in other States & that's a stretch. ANYTHING more is forced legal acceptance for recruiting as they can't reproduce! Vote how you please & I will vote for REAL MARRIAGE.
Well, Nikki, you are assuming that YOU are the arbitrator of what constitutes a "real" marriage. When was that agreed upon? I missed the vote, LOL. Why is your personal opinion more valid, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES, than their own opinion and moral beliefs are? If two gay people feel their union is blessed, you are you to object? Your comment about "recruiting" is simply irrational. Did you get married only to "recruit" others into your "lifestyle"?
I don't assume to be the arbitrartor of what constitutes a "real" marriage. The idea of a real marriage didn't just spontaneously come from thin air! The existence of marriage is ancient & has always been 1man & 1woman. When "other's people's lives" are put on a ballot to dramatically CHANGE tradition & be forced fed to children as a normal union I WILL VOTE YES TO REAL MARRIAGE. You can vote however you want to. It's irrelevant if Gay's feel their union is blessed - IT'S NOT! They do recruit!
In truth, marriage has NOT always been between one man and one woman. The history of same-sex marriage actually pre-dates Christianity. Polygamy has also been practiced for centuries. So, yes, the idea of one man and one women DID arise from thin air! As well, piously decreeing that other people's marriages are not blessed simply because YOU don't like them, is borne out of your personal prejudices, but not from any reality. And where is your proof that gays "recruit"? Could YOU be "turned" gay?
NOPE 1man & 1woman did NOT arise from thin air it most definitely has ancient roots. Fabricated homosexual history does nothing to move me. If homosexuality was some acceptable lifestyle in many ancient civiliations people certainly would be EXTINCT! Unfactual, illogical, & absurd REGARDLESS still wouldn't get my vote! I'm prejaduce? I can't be turned gay, atheist, or anything. Other's who are gulliable or vulnerable can be turned gay. I will VOTE for what I like & dislike PERIOD. POINT! BLANK__
LOL, "fabricated" history? Sure, opposite-sex, one-on-one marriage has ancient roots, but so do same-sex & polygamous marriages. I'm sorry the reality makes you furious, but it doesn't change the facts. Of course you can't be "turned" gay. No one can change his sexual orientation; it's innate. Part of who he is. Being around Chinese people can't make you choose to be Chinese, either! God always has & always will make some of His children gay, but individuals have no choice in the matter.
Makes me furious? I'm not furious at all. It doesn't matter what you say, if it comes on the ballot I will vote Yes to real marriage. People go from gay to straight all the time. Ofcourse, they are turned gay. It's innate? Real talk- we have NO scientific evidence that you are born gay. you can say it 1k x's doesn't make it true. That's why it's fabricating. I don't know what you mean when you say god, so u may want to keep that in ur personal religious circle I don't adhere to ur god.
Nikki, yes, you have the right to vote any way you want. Why keep harping on that? No one is denying it. As for your idea that anyone can go from gay to straight, that's a silly myth, only held onto by folks who have been indoctrinated by false teachings of their chosen religious lifestyle. In reality, sexual orientation is innate.You can research the facts for yourself, if you'd care to learn. The fabricating is done by those who want to justify their bigotry by telling such tales of "change".
GDCG2 says "indoctrinated by false teachings of their chosen religious lifestyle."
Yeah right! Many secular Blacks voted for real marriage too! Do you know what they were labeled because of their vote?
N!ggers- Uneducated - Hypocrites - Bigots - Homophobes! While so many of us hold degree's & some are completely agnostic & atheist. That tells me labeling doesn't work. If we (Blacks) reject this civil rights nonsense, it's because we know would TRUE denial really is! IT IS FINISHED!
You keep avoiding the principle flaw in your logic: why is YOUR definition of a "real" marriage more valid than anyone else's, particularly the couple who is getting married? There was a time in THIS country, when marriage was reserved for white people, and no black folks, even if they were together for 50 years, were ever married in the eyes of the law, any Christian church, or by anyone in white society. That changed over time. Should we still consider only white folks as "really" married?
Jesus, Himself, even ordered His followers to follow the laws of the Old Testament:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"
I'm certain we do NOT believe in the same Jesus. I will stress sticking to the topic & to the facts! I was agnostic for years all through middle & high school half my life & I ALWAYS knew marriage was between 1 man and 1 woman.
I have NO problem debating the FACTS without use of my belief system. You know why? Our society was FOUNDED on beliefs that mirror what's closer to the Morals of the Bible then it does secular humanist- gays making up the morals as they go along. STICK TO THE FACTS!
You may have "known" that marriage was "between one man and one woman", but other people with differing religious beliefs feel differently. You have every right to follow the principles of your own chosen religious/moral lifestyle, but I presume you'd hate anyone else trying to force their personal views of morality on you, so that's why NO ONE should do it to ANYONE. Gay people should enjoy all the same rights as the rest of us enjoy. There's no rational argument against equality.
I KNOW marraige is between 1man & 1woman. You presumed wrong! I don't hate anyone! I have a lesbian cousin whom I love dearly, I also have a family member addicted to drugs & I love him as well. My moral lifestyle is exactly what I vote with, & it's my RIGHT to vote however I please. Can you accept that? You don't know anything about me, besides I will vote Yes to real marriage & No to all others. Gay people have EVERY INDIVIDUAL RIGHT THAT I HAVE. Gays want TO FORCE their lifestyle on us!
Gay people want to "force their lifestyle" on you? D'ya mean that lesbians roam the streets of your neighborhood at night, ready to pounce on you and force you against your will to engage in homosexual activity? Or do you mean that they want to have the right to lead their own lives as THEY see fit, and expect you to give them the peace and respect to do so? Is their refusing to acquiesce to your personal ideas of morality "forcing themselves" on you? Please explain.
Gays can & do lead their lives how they see fit. Gays are trying to radically change real marriage, garner special privileges (disguised as rights), while opening the floodgates for other deviant unions. Forced is rioting when the vote doesn't swing ur direction. Labeling everyone who believes in real marriage propagandas buzz words. Forcing ur rhetoric in ALL media vehicles. Changing laws hurts all!
Nikki, the facts don't bear out your hyperbole, I'm afraid. Gays cannot lead their own lives the way they see fit, when they are denied many of the fundamental rights & privileges everyone else takes for granted. What "special rights" are they demanding? You won't be able to answer that, because in fact, heteros are now the ones lavished with all sorts of special rights. And did allowing interracial marriage, abolishing slavery, giving women the right to vote, etc., really "hurt" everyone?
Gays certainly lead their own lives!!! Gays can't have special privileges which is normal. So, may other American special interests groups are refrained from rights as well. Single people don't enjoy the same employment benefits as married people. Are they denied rights? Marriage is a right! A right gays don't have, just as others who don't fit the REQUIREMENTS! Please don't compare the color of my skin inmutable characteristic to DEVIANCY! Hi-jack someone else's history! SMH
Well, of course gays can't have *special* privileges, since bigotry keeps them from even having *equality*. Single people have access to all the same benefits as married folks, if they choose to get married. Except if they are gay, then they are denied the special rights which st8s take for granted, because marriage is usually not an option for them. I'm still waiting for you to offer any evidence that being gay is more "deviant" than being str8, or what 'special rights" they supposedly want.
Gays do too if they choose to get married! They just have to marry 1 person of opposite sex, that is not a blood relative as required for a marriage license.
Sexual Preference, not sexual restriction Gays do not warrant special priveleges.
*bigotry, prejaduce, hatred* bludgeoning people who don't support ur cause with these PROPAGANDAS BUZZ WORDS does not help ur cause. It hinders and burns bridges. DEVIANCY describes actions or behaviors that violate cultural norms. Gay is abnormal.
But, again, you are willfully avoiding the reality. Telling a gay person he can only have equality if he submits to YOUR idea of what's "right" (i.e., male-female marriage) is like telling an interracial couple they are prohibited from marrying each other, but they still have "equal rights" because a black man can marry a black woman & a white man can marry a white woman. Both the gay & interracial couple still don't have the right to marry whom THEY love, solely based on someone ELSE's bigotry.
You can SPIN the interracial comparison all you want it doesn't fit. SHEER REPETITION OF THIS NONSENSE DOESN'T MAKE IT COMPARABLE. Racism & Sexual preference are absolutely different! GAYS DO NOT HAVE SEXUAL RESTRICTION. Gays are a group of people who share a view point or preference for a particular mode of sexual expression that differs from the larger group. I refuse to get into justifying how my skin is in anyway comparable to homosexuality. It's insulting & absurd all together. Good night!
Yes, racism & sexual preference are different. Racism & homophobia, on the other had, are very similar in that both are borne out of ignorance, irrationality, fear, & the determination to subjugate other communities. Your COLOR is not comparable to homosexuality, but bigots' reaction to it & to homosexuality are very similar. That's the entire point. You did not choose the color of your skin & gays do not choose their orientation, but both blacks & gays are persecuted for who they are.
sort of had a feeling that thecommercialedge & goddon'tcreategays2 were the same ppl. It doesn't really matter - my points are clear even if you disagree. It comes down to what's on the ballot *regardless of shadow accounts*, know bridge has been built, I'm not persauded to vote for the gay special interest campaign. Like my points or leave them we already know how I will vote. I'm not here to persuade you believe & vote however you like! I CAN'T BE MOVED!
Why are you suggesting that GodCreatesGays2 and I are the same people?
Just because we are having a discussion with you? I don't even believe in any organized religions that humans follow, therefore I do not believe in god.
"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group."
Bernice King is a staunch supporter of REAL marriage as she states her father would be too. I would agree doing my own research on MLK. I advice you do the same. Corretta had a right to her opinion but it doesn't change the truth. Her own daughter publicly disagreed with her along with MLK's sister as I'm sure MLK would himself. Provide me with some MLK gay support facts or it's revisionist history. Besides I don't follow man I stand on the truth. Thanks for the comment - I still can't be moved.
" I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere....I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people. "
"• Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions."
--Coretta Scott King. She was there. She knew MLK better than anyone in the world.
CAIN'T CHANGE HISTORY & CAIN'T CHANGE THE TRUTH! MLK was a Bible believing Baptist Minister & I don't believe he would support gay marriage, because CSK is a supporter while other close relatives believe the opposite.
REVISIONIST HISTORY from ANYONE will never convince me that race & sexual preference should be likened. MLK's daughter marched against gay marriage. I guess Malcolm X, Stokely Charmichael, & Marcus Garvey support gay marriage too. !★LªFF¡N☆[◯U†]★LU₫☆!
"Hi, I'm Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. A "yes" vote on 2 does only one thing: it defines marriage as a union of one man and one woman. No one loses benefits. Everyone's civil rights are safe. Don't be misled by dishonest ads about benefits. Protecting marriage between one man and one woman simply protects our children and grandchildren. Please, vote "yes" on 2."
Bayard Rustin was a close friend and trusted colleague of Martin Luther King, Jr. who was openly gay.He organized the 1963 March on Washington and assisted with the 1956 Montgomery Bus Boycott. Bayard Rustin was an integral part of African-American history and the Civil Rights movement. King never shunned Bayard because of his homosexuality
(And MLK and his wife were far more accomplished, experienced and insightful regarding civil rights than BK or AK.)
Glad u brought up Bayard Rustin! Even in his papers & autobiography of clear REVISIONIST HISTORY it seemed undeniable that "Rustin was repudiated by Dr. King, mocked by Stokley Carmichael, and largely forgotten by black history because he was unashamedly a gay man". DIRECT QUOTE from the author who alleges Bayard was the architect of the March on Wash (unsubstaniated claims based on his personal writings of work done in secret).
It's customary when you cite an author and a book to NAME the author and book. And it's clear that author--whoever he is--is impugning, not applauding, black history for forgetting Rustin and his contributions. And I would hardly call working side by side with MLK for years a repudiation in the sense you're trying to make it.
And the fact hat Rustin is the architect of the March on Wash is undisputed and totally uncontroversial among real historians and academics. Hardly revisionist at all.
1It doesn't matter that he was not applauding Black(capital B) History don't need gay approval. 2Limited space- About the Author John DEmilio is professor of history and of gender and women's studies at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Policy director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, he is coauthor of Intimate Matters: A History of Sexuality in America, published by the University of Chicago Press, and author of The World Turned: Essays on Gay History, Politics, and Culture.
MALCOLM X A SODIMITE!★LªFF¡N☆[◯U†]★LU₫☆! PRICELESS!!!O‿O
I have no problem dialoguing on NEW issues NOT already discussed that have at least some facts or a pinch of validity. I do not wish to go in circles debunking fantasies, myth, &/or defending my history from revisionist history. You can believe & feel however u want! I CAN'T NOT BE MOVED 31 out of 31 & I STILL CAN'T BE MOVED!
MX gay - Bayard Arch of March on Wash sure & I'm a nobel peace prize winner! WHY? Because I claim to be! ABSURD!
I thought I was clear - *repeat*I have no problem dialoguing on NEW issues NOT already discussed that have at least some facts or a pinch of validity. I do not wish to go in circles debunking fantasies, myth, &/or defending my history from revisionist history. I have no time to play circles with you - real marriage is not up for a vote & I'm not persuaded to vote for gay unions.
The only place this assertion is controversial is in your own mind.
I don't mind if you differ from me in OPINION. That's fine. But you should understand what an undisputed historical fact is, rather than denying what all reasonable academics and historians have agreed on.
That makes you look like an opinionated fool.
Differences in opinion are fine. Denying well-documented and undisputed historical facts is not. Rustin = Arch of 63 march = uncontroversial.
Well looking like an "opinonated fool" to a single issue (MARRIAGE) - special interest (gays) that are revising history to hijack DOESN'T BOTHER ME AT ALL. Believe and feel however you wish, I'm not convinced. I know my history very well - it was my minor - I also know who appears emotionally attached & foolish. Bayard himself was the source of this information. "THEY" also ALLEGE evolution is well doc'd, proven & has support facts! THEY & THEIR BRAND NEW History doesn't change the truth.
Rustin is the source of this information & his arch of the march was supposedly alleged in secrect! Honestly, you can believe whatever you want, but you CAN NOT CONVINCE ME. I'm sorry this is a waste of my time b4 lunch going in circles. I'm going to finish playing the cafe game b4 my dishes spoil. Thanks for the dialouge, but I'm finished.
In the end, I hope someone with your understanding of history, law, reliable sources, documentation and logic is appointed to argue the case against same sex marriage in the Supreme Court. Please, please insist on doing it yourself.
Slaves had NO rights, being gay is 100% legal. Slaves were LEGALLY tortured, children sold, LEGALLY slave women were raped & beaten. Being gay is 100% legal. Interracial Marriage encourages the optimal situation for child rearing. I'm a Black & a woman (both born & PROVEN imutable characteristics) I reject any claim of similarity between my gender & race with a sexual preference. Hi-jacking someone else's hisory does NOTHING to further ur cause it doesn't build a bridge it burns the bridge.
Well, for many years, gays had no rights either & were subject to all sorts of heinous abuse, unprotected by law. Fortunately, times have evolved to the point where now black heterosexuals have all the special rights that white heteros have & gay people have several of the rights that str8 folks enjoy. But there's still inequality, so of course gays today will continue to fight for equal rights just like blacks of the 50s & 60s, who had rights, but not full equality, did. Who can blame them?
Nothing LIKE Blacks in the 50's & 60's! It is an absolute insult and huge set back to the Civil Rights Movement and resulting legislation to allow special interest groups with a political agenda, like homosexual activists, to play the race card whenever they cant get their way. Blacks have a historically proven denial or restriction of access to education, health care, jobs, and other economic opportunities or benefits due to circumstances for which they have no choice or control. Gay =CHOICE
Nikki, gays also have an historically proven denial & restriction of access to jobs, marriage, adoption, military service, etc. The segregationists of the 50s & 60s claimed blacks who wanted access to white schools & white institutions were demanding "special rights". They said interracial marriage was deviant & against God's will. The same empty rhetoric was used against blacks then & against gays now. And, of course, being gay is no more a choice than being black, tall, or left-handed.
Being gay is a choice! You have no proof that you are born gay while I don't even have to prove that I am Black. I find it deeply offensive when people compare rejection of gay marriage to the cruel torture, genocide, and immeasurable social and economic oppression that Blacks have suffered in the struggle for equality. My parents and grandparents did not endure slavery, lynching's, segregation, dogs, and fire hoses, to legalize homosexual marriage. Try something else this is a straw man.
You don't have to "prove" that you are black, just like a gay person doesn't have to "prove" he's gay. No one has ever woken up one morning, like on a Thursday at 6:45, and said, "Hey! I think I'll be gay today!" And you know, whites used to say that they did not endure all the hardships of building the country, just to allow black people to marry whites and sit at their tables. You are using the same prejudice against others that was used against your people. Shouldn't you know better?
Wow, there's still close to 40% who think homosexual relations SHOULD NOT be legal.... That's a blatant example of just how far certain individuals are willing to invade into your private lives because their religious beliefs give them ammo to be bigoted towards others.
On the bright side, gay marriage has seen increasing support in recent years.
excellent points Marzett918. It's just a matter of time before ignorance is swept away in favor of tolerance and equality. This has been the history of the US, even though every step of progress has been met with resistance by those like Timothyred.
Its a slippery slope, when you start legitimizing sexual perversions in culture, where will it end? there are women who have sex with dogs. So what will be next, animal human marriages? Will animal-human sex be the next thing they want legalized?! and what about the whole NAMBLA/LGBT thing? and after that pedophilia/pederasty rights?! NO! stop it now!
look up pederasty on wikipedia, its totally sanctioned by the LGBT! its even a LGBT portal!
You are comparing homosexuality to bestiality?! Man, I think it was YOUR mother that fucked a dog...or maybe a donkey. You are disgusting! You make me want to vomit!
On the contrary, it is a slippery slope when a society the prides individual freedom, attempts to formally regulate and ban consenting adults' choices regarding who they want to share their lives with. This is one of the most personal and intimate freedoms.
Arguing that marriage between animals and humans or children and adults will come next is an ignorant fallacy of logic. It is the same as arguing that because one individual choose to drive their car at illegal speeds and killed someone else in the process, we should ban all motor vehicles. Animals and children are not legally consenting individuals.
It is also important to note that any tool used to place legal restrains on a particular group can be used on others. There is little doubt that current Americans think very differently than our founders and we use the Constitution very differently as well. If voters create a law that bans gay marriage today, and society changes in several generations, what will that law ban in the future? If your future family is affected, you will have limited your own civil rights.
if a dog can talk and understand what love means and can consent to a romantic relationship with a human, i am willing to go as far as domestic partnership.
WoW Pedophilia can be compared to homosexuality? Okay then, so can heterosexuality. You have no valid point as LGBT IS ALSO linked to Heterosexuality. Get your close minded Christian gossip out of here, we aren't effecting you and we could care less about your opinions. My 'friend' who is christian said the same exact things ( she had other experiences with girls.. ) and when I read these words from her, I defriended her permanently.
For the 'religious' factor, you are preaching Christian ideals. These ideals are to scorn anyone who's sexual preference differs from the 'standard' 'average', While of course pedophilia is bad... You fail to realize that pedophilia can also have any sexual orientation attached. Either way the majority of homosexual people are normal, just like the majority of heterosexual people.
No Timothy the next step will not be animal-human! DUH! It will be polygamy, then incest, (NOT parental or sibling incest just kissing cousins, aunts & uncles), next NAMBLA (we all know NAMBLA were members of the ILGA for a decade), later dead people, & then maybe just maybe animal-human. It's not a slippery slope it's the pandora's box of legally forcing acceptance of paraphilia. oops I think they forced & paid to have that status removed. I mean accepting a "alternative lifestyle".
nikki2christ said: "Timothy the next step will not be animal-human! DUH! It will be polygamy, then incest, "
So, since 5 months ago, how much closer is polygamy/incest becoming legal in North America. Actually, in the past 20 years, how much closer has it become?
Homosexuality harms nobody, especially gay marriage. That's why the majority of people support homosexuality.
If unnatural homosexual unions become legal we will have no legal grounds for legally barring "consenting adults" in other abnormal unions for garnering the same PRIVELAGES. Incest proponets hold forums & have scientist do medical reviews to promote their unions. How close have they came look at their research & you tell me! cont...
Do incest proponets believe incest is UNNATURAL? Nope they defend incest!
Is incest unnatural? Not exactly. A few months ago, Science News reported that inbreeding is surprisingly common in nature, apparently for sound Darwinian reasons.
Is it common among humans? Not as a brother-sister arrangement. But millions of people are doing the next-best thing.
If incestous couples don't want "special privelages" just as homosexuals, why all the research & forums? Theirs no doubt they will be next CONSENTING ADULTS in line for unnatural marriage.
What do incest advocates feel is the NEXT BEST THING?
In a sample of Pakistanis, first-cousin couples accounted for around 60 percent of all marriages. In a sample of Indians, first-cousin couples accounted for one-third of the marriages, and uncle-niece couples accounted for one-fifth.
Do cousin marriages lead to genetic disease? Generally, no. Six years ago, a study by the National Society of Genetic Counselors found that having a child with your first cousin raised the risk of a significant birth defect from about 3 percent to 4 percent to about 4 percent to 7 percent. The authors concluded that this difference wasn't enough to justify genetic testing of cousin couples, much less bans on cousin marriage.
A week later, geneticists will hold a forum titled "Cousin Marriage: A Cause for Concern?" Defenders of the practice are ready. In addition to the data about low probability of birth defects, they note that women are increasingly having babies in their 30s, which multiplies the chance of Down syndrome. Why tolerate one risky choice but not the other?
Where do we draw the line? When do we draw the line? Do homosexuals care about a line being drawn?
"When do we draw the line? Do homosexuals care about a line being drawn? "
There's no line TO draw when you compare homosexuality with bestiality and incest.
Those are illegal activities for a reason, whereas homosexuality harms nobody. If anything, there is simply less procreation going on. No harm done there; people are procreating anyway.
With your rationale, we shouldn't allow Pakistani people in North America because some of them promote incest...? They might bring incest into America.
It's not Nikki's research on incest, it comes from incest advocates. It's a far stretch "straw man" to say we shouldn't allow Pakistani's in North America. LOL IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT ONE GROUP PROMOTES UNNATURAL UNIONS ARE NOT ACCEPTED BUT PEOPLE ARE. WE HAVE STANDARDS/LAWS. I just presented the evidence in THEIR research.
Giuliani has been married three times. On October 26, 1968, he married his second cousin, educator Regina Peruggi, whom Giuliani had known since childhood.
I don't know one person who supports bestiality. I don't believe bestiality or the dead are feasable groups, HOWEVER polygamy & incest are. You seem to avoid using poly in combo with incest. HMMM I do know a bangladeshi 1st cousin married couple in their 50's, with 2 children(healthy), living in Dallas, TX. I was friends with the couples cousin (he's related to both of them) for years.
What harm has cousin marriage or polygamy caused to anoyone?
Nikki, the vast majority of incest & polygamy occurs among heterosexuals. There's a pedophile group of str8s whose sick slogan is, "Sex before 8 or it's too late". According to your logic, we should make hetero marriage illegal because of what it might lead to. Of course, this is absurd. We can't deny an entire community of people equal rights based on irrational fears about what a small fringe minority may or may not do in the future. Fear-mongering mustn't be allowed to influence human rights.
Incest & Poly r abnormal deviant relationships regardless of the offenders. The LAWS that allow homosexual unions will most definitely open the pandora's box. Buzz words like fear-mongering, will NOT silence anyone from standing up 4 REAL MARRIAGE. It's not illogical to be concerned about what the next deviant lifestyle forced on the public might be. It's just ur preference so u use "buzz words" to support ur special interest group. Deny rights? YEAH RIGHT! They have EVERY RIGHT I have.
Nikki, the Pandora's Box has already BEEN opened: by heterosexuals, who routinely engage in all the deviancy you worry about. The point is, normal heterosexuals are not restricted from marriage just because SOME str8s may engage in incest, polygamy, etc. So, normal gay couples should not be restricted from equality in marriage, either, based on your projections & unfounded fears about what a fringe minority of folks may, or MAY NOT EVEN, demand in the future. Str8s don't deserve special rights.
Goddon'tcreateGays:" I trust the LORD to know what He's doing when He creates gay people.' WHAT? Trust the lord? I don't understand! U have some counterfeit Lord & that's NOT a different subject! SMH
Hetorosexual marriage is NOT deviant= 1 adult man & 1 adult woman. All other perversions are DEVIANT. Poly, bigamy, & incest are PUNISHABLE BY CRIMINAL LAW! Being gay is perfectly legal u just want "special rights". "Normal gay" is an oxymoron. It doesn't matter what u say ONLY my VOTE!
Is having rallies & screaming for rights the litmus test for changing laws or even the mindset of ppl? NO! We have many rallies on animal conditions, consumption of animals, & FUR being animal cruelty. It's still Legal to wear fur despite the efforts.
I bet we can get 23million Americans to vote legalize drugs. That wouldn't make it acceptable, because ppl would vote for it. Gay is a sexual preference & a private act, legalizing it would force children to be taught about this unions. SMH
Sick of being told what to do by lesbians!
1WhoSeeks 2 months ago
California NAACP, Agape International Spiritual Center's Rev. Michael Beckwith, Rev. Eric Lee of the SCLC of Greater Los Angeles and civil rights icon Rev. James Lawson ALL SUPPORTED gay marriage.
70% of Blacks in California SUPPORTED real marriage. So called leaders who go against the majority and the WILL of the people do NOT stop the truth or deter the vote. Gay marriage rejected by ALL 31 states where it was put on the ballot. As long as I have the choice I will vote for real marriage.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Just because the majority supports something does not make it right. Throughout history there have been majorities that have supported terrible, bigoted, even murderous policies, and it has been a minority that believed otherwise. A majority alone does not make something right.
filmstocker 2 years ago
very true. the majority of people during the 40s and 50s were not in favor of interracial marriages.
sometimes the government does have to stand up and do what is best for THE COUNTRY, instead of what people's religions tell them to object to.
Truth be told, most Americans cannot put aside their beliefs to do what is best for the common good.
The governemnt needs to pass a bill that requires same-sex marriages to be legal in all 50 states.
AlesandraMarie 2 years ago
@AlesandraMarie So we should be told what to do by minorities? How is that democracy?
1WhoSeeks 2 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
nikki2christ tries to convert murderers and rapists to her religious belief by going to prisons and doing her evangelical bullshit talk.
No wonder the churches in America are filled with hypocritical people. No wonder Atheism is on the rise.
thecommercialedge 2 years ago
GoddoesNOTcreategays: says "According to ur logic, we should make hetero marriage illegal because of what it might lead 2."
-We know what real marriage leads too!
Ur anaolgy comapres Homosexual deviancy to real marriage. It's very different - Using other deviant groups & labeling them hetero is nonsense.
You don't have to agree with what I say, that's fine. Understand, you can NOT force me to accept the unacceptable. As long as I have a vote I will vote YES to REAL MARRIAGE.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Nikki, "real" marriage leads to love, commitment & support between 2 consenting, adult partners.Both gay & straight couples fit this bill. Your persistent, but unfounded, claim that homosexuality is more "deviant" than heterosexuality is easily disproven, since it's heteros who commit the majority of incest, polygamy, etc. Of course I will never accept what is based on irrationality, myth & fear. I trust the LORD to know what He's doing when He creates gay people. His will is good enough for me.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
2 consenting adult partners? That can be percieved as a hinderance! Poly's & cousin's fit this bill as well! Commit the most deviant act? THEY ARE ALL DEVIANT!
1. Why not 3 consenting adult partners?
2. Why not an unlimited amount of consenting adult partners?
3. Why not consenting adult relatives?
4. Why should marriage have a 2 limit & genderless requirement?
5. Should consenting adults be denied anything?
6. Every license has rerquirements. i.e. drivers license, identification, etc.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Well, if you believe in the Bible, and base your beliefs on its ideas, polygamy was accepted even then:
--In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.
--In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.
--In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
--In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
I NEVER MENTIONED THE BIBLE IN THIS FORUM. I ONLY PRESENTED FACTS & DATA!
I'm NOT here to discuss the Bible with you. STICK TO UR SECULAR FACTS & DATA. U can discuss the Bible with me on another more appropriate forum.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Nikki, you presented selective data which did not offer any empirical proof of anything, & you are ignoring the facts. Heteros commit most of the "deviancy" you are so worried about, so if anyone's right to marriage must be prohibited to stop the spread of these acts, straight marriage would have to be the first to go. But, you are not going to deny YOURSELF of special rights, I presume.
And what makes you think being gay isn't normal? It's a part of nature, just like heterosexuality.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Hetero Marriage is NOT deviancy. Hetero's who deviate from normal acceptable behavior are DEVIANTS, just as ALL homo's. I do NOT support ANY FORM of deviancy. I WILL ALWAYS VOTE NO TO DEVIANCY regardless of the offender's sexual preference. Real marriage is NOT special rights it's JUST RIGHT! What you fail to realize is that deviant groups are barred from marriage accept a few states allowing Gay marriage. Polygamy, Polyandry, BIGAMY Incest are all CRIMINAL ILLEGAL ACTS! Being Gay LEGAL!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
But, of course, gay marriage is not a deviancy, any more than a str8 marriage is. Both are unions between 2 consenting adults who wish to share a spiritual/romantic/physical love for their partner. But if you want to deny all gay couples the right to marry based on what a few oddballs on the outskirts of society demand, then you'd have to prohibit hetero marriage on the same basis. Being gay & being straight are both legal, so there's no valid argument against them ALL having equal legal rights.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Gay marriage is no way comparable to Real marriage! If we allow one form of deviancy what will stop any others? If we say just 2 consenting adults why not 3 or without limits? It is legal to be Gay & that's good enough, they have civil unions in other States & that's a stretch. ANYTHING more is forced legal acceptance for recruiting as they can't reproduce! Vote how you please & I will vote for REAL MARRIAGE.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Well, Nikki, you are assuming that YOU are the arbitrator of what constitutes a "real" marriage. When was that agreed upon? I missed the vote, LOL. Why is your personal opinion more valid, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES, than their own opinion and moral beliefs are? If two gay people feel their union is blessed, you are you to object? Your comment about "recruiting" is simply irrational. Did you get married only to "recruit" others into your "lifestyle"?
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
I don't assume to be the arbitrartor of what constitutes a "real" marriage. The idea of a real marriage didn't just spontaneously come from thin air! The existence of marriage is ancient & has always been 1man & 1woman. When "other's people's lives" are put on a ballot to dramatically CHANGE tradition & be forced fed to children as a normal union I WILL VOTE YES TO REAL MARRIAGE. You can vote however you want to. It's irrelevant if Gay's feel their union is blessed - IT'S NOT! They do recruit!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
In truth, marriage has NOT always been between one man and one woman. The history of same-sex marriage actually pre-dates Christianity. Polygamy has also been practiced for centuries. So, yes, the idea of one man and one women DID arise from thin air! As well, piously decreeing that other people's marriages are not blessed simply because YOU don't like them, is borne out of your personal prejudices, but not from any reality. And where is your proof that gays "recruit"? Could YOU be "turned" gay?
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
NOPE 1man & 1woman did NOT arise from thin air it most definitely has ancient roots. Fabricated homosexual history does nothing to move me. If homosexuality was some acceptable lifestyle in many ancient civiliations people certainly would be EXTINCT! Unfactual, illogical, & absurd REGARDLESS still wouldn't get my vote! I'm prejaduce? I can't be turned gay, atheist, or anything. Other's who are gulliable or vulnerable can be turned gay. I will VOTE for what I like & dislike PERIOD. POINT! BLANK__
nikki2christ 2 years ago
LOL, "fabricated" history? Sure, opposite-sex, one-on-one marriage has ancient roots, but so do same-sex & polygamous marriages. I'm sorry the reality makes you furious, but it doesn't change the facts. Of course you can't be "turned" gay. No one can change his sexual orientation; it's innate. Part of who he is. Being around Chinese people can't make you choose to be Chinese, either! God always has & always will make some of His children gay, but individuals have no choice in the matter.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Makes me furious? I'm not furious at all. It doesn't matter what you say, if it comes on the ballot I will vote Yes to real marriage. People go from gay to straight all the time. Ofcourse, they are turned gay. It's innate? Real talk- we have NO scientific evidence that you are born gay. you can say it 1k x's doesn't make it true. That's why it's fabricating. I don't know what you mean when you say god, so u may want to keep that in ur personal religious circle I don't adhere to ur god.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Nikki, yes, you have the right to vote any way you want. Why keep harping on that? No one is denying it. As for your idea that anyone can go from gay to straight, that's a silly myth, only held onto by folks who have been indoctrinated by false teachings of their chosen religious lifestyle. In reality, sexual orientation is innate.You can research the facts for yourself, if you'd care to learn. The fabricating is done by those who want to justify their bigotry by telling such tales of "change".
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
GDCG2 says "indoctrinated by false teachings of their chosen religious lifestyle."
Yeah right! Many secular Blacks voted for real marriage too! Do you know what they were labeled because of their vote?
N!ggers- Uneducated - Hypocrites - Bigots - Homophobes! While so many of us hold degree's & some are completely agnostic & atheist. That tells me labeling doesn't work. If we (Blacks) reject this civil rights nonsense, it's because we know would TRUE denial really is! IT IS FINISHED!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
You keep avoiding the principle flaw in your logic: why is YOUR definition of a "real" marriage more valid than anyone else's, particularly the couple who is getting married? There was a time in THIS country, when marriage was reserved for white people, and no black folks, even if they were together for 50 years, were ever married in the eyes of the law, any Christian church, or by anyone in white society. That changed over time. Should we still consider only white folks as "really" married?
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
(Part 2)
Jesus, Himself, even ordered His followers to follow the laws of the Old Testament:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"
Or, was Jesus wrong?
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
I'm certain we do NOT believe in the same Jesus. I will stress sticking to the topic & to the facts! I was agnostic for years all through middle & high school half my life & I ALWAYS knew marriage was between 1 man and 1 woman.
I have NO problem debating the FACTS without use of my belief system. You know why? Our society was FOUNDED on beliefs that mirror what's closer to the Morals of the Bible then it does secular humanist- gays making up the morals as they go along. STICK TO THE FACTS!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
You may have "known" that marriage was "between one man and one woman", but other people with differing religious beliefs feel differently. You have every right to follow the principles of your own chosen religious/moral lifestyle, but I presume you'd hate anyone else trying to force their personal views of morality on you, so that's why NO ONE should do it to ANYONE. Gay people should enjoy all the same rights as the rest of us enjoy. There's no rational argument against equality.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
I KNOW marraige is between 1man & 1woman. You presumed wrong! I don't hate anyone! I have a lesbian cousin whom I love dearly, I also have a family member addicted to drugs & I love him as well. My moral lifestyle is exactly what I vote with, & it's my RIGHT to vote however I please. Can you accept that? You don't know anything about me, besides I will vote Yes to real marriage & No to all others. Gay people have EVERY INDIVIDUAL RIGHT THAT I HAVE. Gays want TO FORCE their lifestyle on us!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Gay people want to "force their lifestyle" on you? D'ya mean that lesbians roam the streets of your neighborhood at night, ready to pounce on you and force you against your will to engage in homosexual activity? Or do you mean that they want to have the right to lead their own lives as THEY see fit, and expect you to give them the peace and respect to do so? Is their refusing to acquiesce to your personal ideas of morality "forcing themselves" on you? Please explain.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Gays can & do lead their lives how they see fit. Gays are trying to radically change real marriage, garner special privileges (disguised as rights), while opening the floodgates for other deviant unions. Forced is rioting when the vote doesn't swing ur direction. Labeling everyone who believes in real marriage propagandas buzz words. Forcing ur rhetoric in ALL media vehicles. Changing laws hurts all!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Nikki, the facts don't bear out your hyperbole, I'm afraid. Gays cannot lead their own lives the way they see fit, when they are denied many of the fundamental rights & privileges everyone else takes for granted. What "special rights" are they demanding? You won't be able to answer that, because in fact, heteros are now the ones lavished with all sorts of special rights. And did allowing interracial marriage, abolishing slavery, giving women the right to vote, etc., really "hurt" everyone?
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Gays certainly lead their own lives!!! Gays can't have special privileges which is normal. So, may other American special interests groups are refrained from rights as well. Single people don't enjoy the same employment benefits as married people. Are they denied rights? Marriage is a right! A right gays don't have, just as others who don't fit the REQUIREMENTS! Please don't compare the color of my skin inmutable characteristic to DEVIANCY! Hi-jack someone else's history! SMH
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Well, of course gays can't have *special* privileges, since bigotry keeps them from even having *equality*. Single people have access to all the same benefits as married folks, if they choose to get married. Except if they are gay, then they are denied the special rights which st8s take for granted, because marriage is usually not an option for them. I'm still waiting for you to offer any evidence that being gay is more "deviant" than being str8, or what 'special rights" they supposedly want.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Gays do too if they choose to get married! They just have to marry 1 person of opposite sex, that is not a blood relative as required for a marriage license.
Sexual Preference, not sexual restriction Gays do not warrant special priveleges.
*bigotry, prejaduce, hatred* bludgeoning people who don't support ur cause with these PROPAGANDAS BUZZ WORDS does not help ur cause. It hinders and burns bridges. DEVIANCY describes actions or behaviors that violate cultural norms. Gay is abnormal.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
But, again, you are willfully avoiding the reality. Telling a gay person he can only have equality if he submits to YOUR idea of what's "right" (i.e., male-female marriage) is like telling an interracial couple they are prohibited from marrying each other, but they still have "equal rights" because a black man can marry a black woman & a white man can marry a white woman. Both the gay & interracial couple still don't have the right to marry whom THEY love, solely based on someone ELSE's bigotry.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
You can SPIN the interracial comparison all you want it doesn't fit. SHEER REPETITION OF THIS NONSENSE DOESN'T MAKE IT COMPARABLE. Racism & Sexual preference are absolutely different! GAYS DO NOT HAVE SEXUAL RESTRICTION. Gays are a group of people who share a view point or preference for a particular mode of sexual expression that differs from the larger group. I refuse to get into justifying how my skin is in anyway comparable to homosexuality. It's insulting & absurd all together. Good night!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Yes, racism & sexual preference are different. Racism & homophobia, on the other had, are very similar in that both are borne out of ignorance, irrationality, fear, & the determination to subjugate other communities. Your COLOR is not comparable to homosexuality, but bigots' reaction to it & to homosexuality are very similar. That's the entire point. You did not choose the color of your skin & gays do not choose their orientation, but both blacks & gays are persecuted for who they are.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
nikki2christ yelled: "GAYS DO NOT HAVE SEXUAL RESTRICTION."
Neither to heterosexuals. What's your point?
thecommercialedge 2 years ago
Good luck getting a "straight" answer (no pun intended), LOL!
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
sort of had a feeling that thecommercialedge & goddon'tcreategays2 were the same ppl. It doesn't really matter - my points are clear even if you disagree. It comes down to what's on the ballot *regardless of shadow accounts*, know bridge has been built, I'm not persauded to vote for the gay special interest campaign. Like my points or leave them we already know how I will vote. I'm not here to persuade you believe & vote however you like! I CAN'T BE MOVED!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
"*regardless of shadow accounts*"
What does that mean?
Why are you suggesting that GodCreatesGays2 and I are the same people?
Just because we are having a discussion with you? I don't even believe in any organized religions that humans follow, therefore I do not believe in god.
Your paranoia is laughable.
thecommercialedge 2 years ago
nikki said: "my points are clear"
But your points are not TRUTH.
You say gays don't have sexual restrictions but you fail to acknowledge that heterosexuals also do not have sexual restrictions.
Therefore you're picking on only one group of people because you are afraid to include the rest of society in your "points".
You twist the truth to push your homophobic agenda in a public voice.
You broke one of the 10 Commandments:
Bearing false witness against your neighbour, sinner2christ !!
thecommercialedge 2 years ago
"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group."
--Coretta Scott King
filmstocker 2 years ago
Bernice King is a staunch supporter of REAL marriage as she states her father would be too. I would agree doing my own research on MLK. I advice you do the same. Corretta had a right to her opinion but it doesn't change the truth. Her own daughter publicly disagreed with her along with MLK's sister as I'm sure MLK would himself. Provide me with some MLK gay support facts or it's revisionist history. Besides I don't follow man I stand on the truth. Thanks for the comment - I still can't be moved.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
"I know deep down in my sanctified soul that he did not take a bullet for same-sex unions." Bernice King
nikki2christ 2 years ago
" I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere....I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people. "
--Coretta Scott King.
filmstocker 2 years ago
"• Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions."
--Coretta Scott King. She was there. She knew MLK better than anyone in the world.
filmstocker 2 years ago
CAIN'T CHANGE HISTORY & CAIN'T CHANGE THE TRUTH! MLK was a Bible believing Baptist Minister & I don't believe he would support gay marriage, because CSK is a supporter while other close relatives believe the opposite.
REVISIONIST HISTORY from ANYONE will never convince me that race & sexual preference should be likened. MLK's daughter marched against gay marriage. I guess Malcolm X, Stokely Charmichael, & Marcus Garvey support gay marriage too. !★LªFF¡N☆[◯U†]★LU₫☆!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
"Hi, I'm Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. A "yes" vote on 2 does only one thing: it defines marriage as a union of one man and one woman. No one loses benefits. Everyone's civil rights are safe. Don't be misled by dishonest ads about benefits. Protecting marriage between one man and one woman simply protects our children and grandchildren. Please, vote "yes" on 2."
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Bayard Rustin was a close friend and trusted colleague of Martin Luther King, Jr. who was openly gay.He organized the 1963 March on Washington and assisted with the 1956 Montgomery Bus Boycott. Bayard Rustin was an integral part of African-American history and the Civil Rights movement. King never shunned Bayard because of his homosexuality
(And MLK and his wife were far more accomplished, experienced and insightful regarding civil rights than BK or AK.)
filmstocker 2 years ago
Glad u brought up Bayard Rustin! Even in his papers & autobiography of clear REVISIONIST HISTORY it seemed undeniable that "Rustin was repudiated by Dr. King, mocked by Stokley Carmichael, and largely forgotten by black history because he was unashamedly a gay man". DIRECT QUOTE from the author who alleges Bayard was the architect of the March on Wash (unsubstaniated claims based on his personal writings of work done in secret).
nikki2christ 2 years ago
It's customary when you cite an author and a book to NAME the author and book. And it's clear that author--whoever he is--is impugning, not applauding, black history for forgetting Rustin and his contributions. And I would hardly call working side by side with MLK for years a repudiation in the sense you're trying to make it.
And the fact hat Rustin is the architect of the March on Wash is undisputed and totally uncontroversial among real historians and academics. Hardly revisionist at all.
filmstocker 2 years ago
1It doesn't matter that he was not applauding Black(capital B) History don't need gay approval. 2Limited space- About the Author John DEmilio is professor of history and of gender and women's studies at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Policy director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, he is coauthor of Intimate Matters: A History of Sexuality in America, published by the University of Chicago Press, and author of The World Turned: Essays on Gay History, Politics, and Culture.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Malcolm X had many documented same sex relationships (See the biography, Malcolm: The Life of a Man Who Changed Black America).
filmstocker 2 years ago
MALCOLM X A SODIMITE!★LªFF¡N☆[◯U†]★LU₫☆! PRICELESS!!!O‿O
I have no problem dialoguing on NEW issues NOT already discussed that have at least some facts or a pinch of validity. I do not wish to go in circles debunking fantasies, myth, &/or defending my history from revisionist history. You can believe & feel however u want! I CAN'T NOT BE MOVED 31 out of 31 & I STILL CAN'T BE MOVED!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Well documented by those who knew him before he was married. Look it up.
filmstocker 2 years ago
MX gay - Bayard Arch of March on Wash sure & I'm a nobel peace prize winner! WHY? Because I claim to be! ABSURD!
I thought I was clear - *repeat*I have no problem dialoguing on NEW issues NOT already discussed that have at least some facts or a pinch of validity. I do not wish to go in circles debunking fantasies, myth, &/or defending my history from revisionist history. I have no time to play circles with you - real marriage is not up for a vote & I'm not persuaded to vote for gay unions.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
"Bayard Arch of March on Wash"
The only place this assertion is controversial is in your own mind.
I don't mind if you differ from me in OPINION. That's fine. But you should understand what an undisputed historical fact is, rather than denying what all reasonable academics and historians have agreed on.
That makes you look like an opinionated fool.
Differences in opinion are fine. Denying well-documented and undisputed historical facts is not. Rustin = Arch of 63 march = uncontroversial.
filmstocker 2 years ago
Well looking like an "opinonated fool" to a single issue (MARRIAGE) - special interest (gays) that are revising history to hijack DOESN'T BOTHER ME AT ALL. Believe and feel however you wish, I'm not convinced. I know my history very well - it was my minor - I also know who appears emotionally attached & foolish. Bayard himself was the source of this information. "THEY" also ALLEGE evolution is well doc'd, proven & has support facts! THEY & THEIR BRAND NEW History doesn't change the truth.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Find one reliable source that specifically denies Bayard Rustin was the architect of the March on Washington. One. Just one.
You won't. "Rustin was by all accounts the architect of the 1963 March on Washington." His biography on many sources on the net have this exact quote
Not his own accounts. Not gay revisionist's accounts. ALL accounts.
filmstocker 2 years ago
Rustin is the source of this information & his arch of the march was supposedly alleged in secrect! Honestly, you can believe whatever you want, but you CAN NOT CONVINCE ME. I'm sorry this is a waste of my time b4 lunch going in circles. I'm going to finish playing the cafe game b4 my dishes spoil. Thanks for the dialouge, but I'm finished.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
"I'm finished."
Likewise.
In the end, I hope someone with your understanding of history, law, reliable sources, documentation and logic is appointed to argue the case against same sex marriage in the Supreme Court. Please, please insist on doing it yourself.
filmstocker 2 years ago
ooo it was your minor, eh? that totally means you can put aside your religion and look at facts with an open mind right?
not! :)
AlesandraMarie 2 years ago
Slaves had NO rights, being gay is 100% legal. Slaves were LEGALLY tortured, children sold, LEGALLY slave women were raped & beaten. Being gay is 100% legal. Interracial Marriage encourages the optimal situation for child rearing. I'm a Black & a woman (both born & PROVEN imutable characteristics) I reject any claim of similarity between my gender & race with a sexual preference. Hi-jacking someone else's hisory does NOTHING to further ur cause it doesn't build a bridge it burns the bridge.
nikki2christ 2 years ago 2
Well, for many years, gays had no rights either & were subject to all sorts of heinous abuse, unprotected by law. Fortunately, times have evolved to the point where now black heterosexuals have all the special rights that white heteros have & gay people have several of the rights that str8 folks enjoy. But there's still inequality, so of course gays today will continue to fight for equal rights just like blacks of the 50s & 60s, who had rights, but not full equality, did. Who can blame them?
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Nothing LIKE Blacks in the 50's & 60's! It is an absolute insult and huge set back to the Civil Rights Movement and resulting legislation to allow special interest groups with a political agenda, like homosexual activists, to play the race card whenever they cant get their way. Blacks have a historically proven denial or restriction of access to education, health care, jobs, and other economic opportunities or benefits due to circumstances for which they have no choice or control. Gay =CHOICE
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Nikki, gays also have an historically proven denial & restriction of access to jobs, marriage, adoption, military service, etc. The segregationists of the 50s & 60s claimed blacks who wanted access to white schools & white institutions were demanding "special rights". They said interracial marriage was deviant & against God's will. The same empty rhetoric was used against blacks then & against gays now. And, of course, being gay is no more a choice than being black, tall, or left-handed.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Being gay is a choice! You have no proof that you are born gay while I don't even have to prove that I am Black. I find it deeply offensive when people compare rejection of gay marriage to the cruel torture, genocide, and immeasurable social and economic oppression that Blacks have suffered in the struggle for equality. My parents and grandparents did not endure slavery, lynching's, segregation, dogs, and fire hoses, to legalize homosexual marriage. Try something else this is a straw man.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
You don't have to "prove" that you are black, just like a gay person doesn't have to "prove" he's gay. No one has ever woken up one morning, like on a Thursday at 6:45, and said, "Hey! I think I'll be gay today!" And you know, whites used to say that they did not endure all the hardships of building the country, just to allow black people to marry whites and sit at their tables. You are using the same prejudice against others that was used against your people. Shouldn't you know better?
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Wow, there's still close to 40% who think homosexual relations SHOULD NOT be legal.... That's a blatant example of just how far certain individuals are willing to invade into your private lives because their religious beliefs give them ammo to be bigoted towards others.
On the bright side, gay marriage has seen increasing support in recent years.
Equal rights for all, that is all.
ssnatcherss 3 years ago
Yeah queers. Fight that ignorant homophobia!
XtremeBlu62 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You BRAINWASHED FOOLS!
Polls are fradulent!
google: "Fuck you Frank!". Don't care what other people think! VOTE FOR WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT!
WAKE UP AMERICA, TO ARMS! TO ARMS!
FUCK YOU FRANK!
chewbaca1989 4 years ago
Well Chew ,there are 10 states with either civil union or Marriage for Homosexuals ,and I happen to be in one since 2000, American is changing.
Clemburke1111 4 years ago
excellent points Marzett918. It's just a matter of time before ignorance is swept away in favor of tolerance and equality. This has been the history of the US, even though every step of progress has been met with resistance by those like Timothyred.
oaklandj 4 years ago
Its a slippery slope, when you start legitimizing sexual perversions in culture, where will it end? there are women who have sex with dogs. So what will be next, animal human marriages? Will animal-human sex be the next thing they want legalized?! and what about the whole NAMBLA/LGBT thing? and after that pedophilia/pederasty rights?! NO! stop it now!
look up pederasty on wikipedia, its totally sanctioned by the LGBT! its even a LGBT portal!
TimothyRed1990 4 years ago 2
You are comparing homosexuality to bestiality?! Man, I think it was YOUR mother that fucked a dog...or maybe a donkey. You are disgusting! You make me want to vomit!
PheenixTears420 4 years ago
On the contrary, it is a slippery slope when a society the prides individual freedom, attempts to formally regulate and ban consenting adults' choices regarding who they want to share their lives with. This is one of the most personal and intimate freedoms.
wemdel517 4 years ago
Arguing that marriage between animals and humans or children and adults will come next is an ignorant fallacy of logic. It is the same as arguing that because one individual choose to drive their car at illegal speeds and killed someone else in the process, we should ban all motor vehicles. Animals and children are not legally consenting individuals.
wemdel517 4 years ago
It is also important to note that any tool used to place legal restrains on a particular group can be used on others. There is little doubt that current Americans think very differently than our founders and we use the Constitution very differently as well. If voters create a law that bans gay marriage today, and society changes in several generations, what will that law ban in the future? If your future family is affected, you will have limited your own civil rights.
wemdel517 4 years ago
if a dog can talk and understand what love means and can consent to a romantic relationship with a human, i am willing to go as far as domestic partnership.
jamaq 4 years ago
i am not mocking the gay people, as I am gay myself, i am being honest.
and I should include all animals, not just dogs.
jamaq 4 years ago
WoW Pedophilia can be compared to homosexuality? Okay then, so can heterosexuality. You have no valid point as LGBT IS ALSO linked to Heterosexuality. Get your close minded Christian gossip out of here, we aren't effecting you and we could care less about your opinions. My 'friend' who is christian said the same exact things ( she had other experiences with girls.. ) and when I read these words from her, I defriended her permanently.
mewimi 4 years ago
I'm not religous dude. 2nd How is LGBT related to heterosexuality, and why would that even matter?
TimothyRed1990 4 years ago
For the 'religious' factor, you are preaching Christian ideals. These ideals are to scorn anyone who's sexual preference differs from the 'standard' 'average', While of course pedophilia is bad... You fail to realize that pedophilia can also have any sexual orientation attached. Either way the majority of homosexual people are normal, just like the majority of heterosexual people.
mewimi 4 years ago
No Timothy the next step will not be animal-human! DUH! It will be polygamy, then incest, (NOT parental or sibling incest just kissing cousins, aunts & uncles), next NAMBLA (we all know NAMBLA were members of the ILGA for a decade), later dead people, & then maybe just maybe animal-human. It's not a slippery slope it's the pandora's box of legally forcing acceptance of paraphilia. oops I think they forced & paid to have that status removed. I mean accepting a "alternative lifestyle".
nikki2christ 2 years ago
nikki2christ said: "Timothy the next step will not be animal-human! DUH! It will be polygamy, then incest, "
So, since 5 months ago, how much closer is polygamy/incest becoming legal in North America. Actually, in the past 20 years, how much closer has it become?
Homosexuality harms nobody, especially gay marriage. That's why the majority of people support homosexuality.
thecommercialedge 2 years ago
If unnatural homosexual unions become legal we will have no legal grounds for legally barring "consenting adults" in other abnormal unions for garnering the same PRIVELAGES. Incest proponets hold forums & have scientist do medical reviews to promote their unions. How close have they came look at their research & you tell me! cont...
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Do incest proponets believe incest is UNNATURAL? Nope they defend incest!
Is incest unnatural? Not exactly. A few months ago, Science News reported that inbreeding is surprisingly common in nature, apparently for sound Darwinian reasons.
Is it common among humans? Not as a brother-sister arrangement. But millions of people are doing the next-best thing.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
If incestous couples don't want "special privelages" just as homosexuals, why all the research & forums? Theirs no doubt they will be next CONSENTING ADULTS in line for unnatural marriage.
What do incest advocates feel is the NEXT BEST THING?
In a sample of Pakistanis, first-cousin couples accounted for around 60 percent of all marriages. In a sample of Indians, first-cousin couples accounted for one-third of the marriages, and uncle-niece couples accounted for one-fifth.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
More of their research...
Do cousin marriages lead to genetic disease? Generally, no. Six years ago, a study by the National Society of Genetic Counselors found that having a child with your first cousin raised the risk of a significant birth defect from about 3 percent to 4 percent to about 4 percent to 7 percent. The authors concluded that this difference wasn't enough to justify genetic testing of cousin couples, much less bans on cousin marriage.
cont...
nikki2christ 2 years ago
A week later, geneticists will hold a forum titled "Cousin Marriage: A Cause for Concern?" Defenders of the practice are ready. In addition to the data about low probability of birth defects, they note that women are increasingly having babies in their 30s, which multiplies the chance of Down syndrome. Why tolerate one risky choice but not the other?
Where do we draw the line? When do we draw the line? Do homosexuals care about a line being drawn?
nikki2christ 2 years ago
"When do we draw the line? Do homosexuals care about a line being drawn? "
There's no line TO draw when you compare homosexuality with bestiality and incest.
Those are illegal activities for a reason, whereas homosexuality harms nobody. If anything, there is simply less procreation going on. No harm done there; people are procreating anyway.
With your rationale, we shouldn't allow Pakistani people in North America because some of them promote incest...? They might bring incest into America.
thecommercialedge 2 years ago
It's not Nikki's research on incest, it comes from incest advocates. It's a far stretch "straw man" to say we shouldn't allow Pakistani's in North America. LOL IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT ONE GROUP PROMOTES UNNATURAL UNIONS ARE NOT ACCEPTED BUT PEOPLE ARE. WE HAVE STANDARDS/LAWS. I just presented the evidence in THEIR research.
Giuliani has been married three times. On October 26, 1968, he married his second cousin, educator Regina Peruggi, whom Giuliani had known since childhood.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
If there's no line to draw...
Should marriage between consenting cousins be legal?
-Advocoates for incestous marriage have presented scientific evidence at why their unions are valid.
Should marriage between poly couples be legal?
Poly couples are ALL consenting adults. i.e. Big Love
If NOT why NOT?
If these two marriage unions were on the ballot would u vote YES for CONSENTING ADULT MARRIAGE or NO REMOVE CIVIL RIGHTS for CONSENTING ADULTS?
nikki2christ 2 years ago
"If unnatural homosexual unions become legal we will have no legal grounds for legally barring "consenting adults" in other abnormal unions"
I don't know ONE person that supports bestiality or incest. Do you?
And AGAIN, what harm has gay marriage caused anyone in the past 10 years that it's been legal in countries such as the Netherlands and Canada?
There haven't even been ANY rallies at any city hall on earth regarding bestiality.
thecommercialedge 2 years ago
I don't know one person who supports bestiality. I don't believe bestiality or the dead are feasable groups, HOWEVER polygamy & incest are. You seem to avoid using poly in combo with incest. HMMM I do know a bangladeshi 1st cousin married couple in their 50's, with 2 children(healthy), living in Dallas, TX. I was friends with the couples cousin (he's related to both of them) for years.
What harm has cousin marriage or polygamy caused to anoyone?
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Nikki, the vast majority of incest & polygamy occurs among heterosexuals. There's a pedophile group of str8s whose sick slogan is, "Sex before 8 or it's too late". According to your logic, we should make hetero marriage illegal because of what it might lead to. Of course, this is absurd. We can't deny an entire community of people equal rights based on irrational fears about what a small fringe minority may or may not do in the future. Fear-mongering mustn't be allowed to influence human rights.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Incest & Poly r abnormal deviant relationships regardless of the offenders. The LAWS that allow homosexual unions will most definitely open the pandora's box. Buzz words like fear-mongering, will NOT silence anyone from standing up 4 REAL MARRIAGE. It's not illogical to be concerned about what the next deviant lifestyle forced on the public might be. It's just ur preference so u use "buzz words" to support ur special interest group. Deny rights? YEAH RIGHT! They have EVERY RIGHT I have.
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Nikki, the Pandora's Box has already BEEN opened: by heterosexuals, who routinely engage in all the deviancy you worry about. The point is, normal heterosexuals are not restricted from marriage just because SOME str8s may engage in incest, polygamy, etc. So, normal gay couples should not be restricted from equality in marriage, either, based on your projections & unfounded fears about what a fringe minority of folks may, or MAY NOT EVEN, demand in the future. Str8s don't deserve special rights.
GodCreatesGays2 2 years ago
Goddon'tcreateGays:" I trust the LORD to know what He's doing when He creates gay people.' WHAT? Trust the lord? I don't understand! U have some counterfeit Lord & that's NOT a different subject! SMH
Hetorosexual marriage is NOT deviant= 1 adult man & 1 adult woman. All other perversions are DEVIANT. Poly, bigamy, & incest are PUNISHABLE BY CRIMINAL LAW! Being gay is perfectly legal u just want "special rights". "Normal gay" is an oxymoron. It doesn't matter what u say ONLY my VOTE!
nikki2christ 2 years ago
Is having rallies & screaming for rights the litmus test for changing laws or even the mindset of ppl? NO! We have many rallies on animal conditions, consumption of animals, & FUR being animal cruelty. It's still Legal to wear fur despite the efforts.
I bet we can get 23million Americans to vote legalize drugs. That wouldn't make it acceptable, because ppl would vote for it. Gay is a sexual preference & a private act, legalizing it would force children to be taught about this unions. SMH
nikki2christ 2 years ago
That is awesome! Few more years...
makhay 4 years ago