I think one varian's biggest reasons for his hatred is that he watch his father get killed by an Orc. Tho he doesn't know that the Orc reluctantly killed king lane because he was kind to her. ( lol little back story)
Thrall was an excellent diplomatic leader. But times have changed, and I loves me a warchief who won't take shit from Alliance, no matter the "diplomatic" consequences.
Of course, no Alliance has bothered to see what Garrosh is like recently, having just taken leadership of the Horde. He's not the bloodthirsty warmonger he was all through wrath. If both Garrosh and Wrynn are coming to their senses, I'm curious as to what provokes war between them in Cataclysm.
OK, to stop this why the blood elfs were betrayed by the allaince discussion/ they are eventually going to leave the horde.... even if they do leave the horde, they arent going to the alliance,mind you that HIGH elves were in the allaince, not BLOOD elves, and high/blood elves hold a somewhat hate for the night elves, seeing how they forbid them from useing the arcane arts and they cast them out to the eastern kingdoms........................ O yeah, Suarfang would Cleave threw maurudin anyday(:
The High elves are STILL on the Alliance :) Their about as numerous as the blood elves. The Alliance shunned the blood elves because their use of fel energy. This had nothing to do with their betrayal by GARITHOS, who was a warlord and didn't speak for the entire Alliance :) Hence why the High elves are still with them :)
@lilanneelise the night elves helped the blood elves get back to their capital city. and garithos was an asshole, yes, but its the blood elves who betrayed them (even though it was understandable) let alone the thousands of years during wich they were allies. and also, its the draenei and the naaru that helped the blood elves get the sunwell back and stop their addiction. I'm just saying that after BC, blood elves may not be so legitimate to be in the horde anymore. but this is my point of view.
@Zatsukai Wrong again. See the evidence. The alliance betrayed the blood elves and to claim anything else is to prove that you are brainless shitwit. Watch the video "Why the Blood Elf Left The Alliance" and grow a brain.
@Zatsukai To put the events in the time line: on the way to assist the alliance, the blood elves were attacked by night elves. Then, Garrithos attempted to ensure that the blood elves would die in battle. The, Kael accepts help from the naga in order to survive and win the battle for the alliance. The Garrithos trumps up a treason charge to have the ENTIRE RACE EXECUTED. The alliance is nothing but a collection of traitors and backstabbers, lead by humans who have no concept of honor.
@lilanneelise well... I'd say your sources and informations are good, but outdated. several things occured after this. and also, the alliance are not like this anymore. FAR from this. it was corrupted before, but the alliance will flourish with the return of varian. you should read the posts on wow.com about alliance and horde politics and lore. im not saying all you say is shit, but it helps to see things under different angles
sooo to sumarize, garrosh should die(actually hope he does), saurfang kick ass, and the fact muradin defeated saurfang pops was a blizz play to EVENTUALLY make varyan look a bit less of a jerk
wonder how this is gona shape up in cata with thrall leaving and garrosh taking over...i hate garrosh hes a dick cant take a chill pill. hes gona fuck up the little peace there is with the alliance and horde :/ prepaire for battle!
@sasquach3758 i agree garrosh is a cocky lil dick thatw ants alli and horde to fight all day i bet if he wa playing WoW he'd be a hardcore pvp nerd :|
what happens as alliance: saurfang runs out, says alliance sucks balls and fight starts, muradin & soldiers get trapped & fight starts.
saurfang dies and muradin & soldiers get released, the saurfang senior comes and wants to get his body, muradin goes like GTFO, the varyn goes, OMFG STFU muradin.
MrRobertSama, you have no actual proof to what you claim here. So he has one moment when he overlooks his hatred of orcs to let Varok claim the body of his son, that doesn't mean anything when he regards all orcs as savages and wants to see them wiped out. And if you think otherwise, I suppose the tension raised between horde and alliance in cataclysm start is nothing to do with him then?
@Heishikaze You don't like Varian :D? Dude check the Lore! He is the one Killing Onyxia.. Everything in his life was fucked up.. no wonder he is such an ass...
As for Garrosh... Cry baby who wants to become hero as his father...
Exactly where did you find Jaina having a relationship of any kind other than friends and allies with Thrall? Because to the extent of my knowledge, Arthas has- up to this point- been the one and only love of her life, physically and emotionally. The Warcraft RPG even explicitly says she has NOT had a previous relationship with Thrall, so which source of canon are you using?
Also, not many people would consider two guys enough to be called a slut even if she had, but you know.. xD
i have a question because i roll horde and have never seen this discussion happen: does this mean that Varian now understands what happened at the wrathgate and accepts that the horde wasnt responsible? he say that his soldiers have told him what happened and now he's sympathetic to one of the horde's greatest heroes of all time. so, if he still hates the horde with all his heart because of wrathgate then does that mean he thinks the horde killed dranosh on purpose and saurfang didnt know?
No Varian has accepted that the Undead betrayed the Horde and they were responsible, Varian dosent hate the Orcs entirely and he certainly dosent hate Thrall but that meat head Garrosh is a different matter. Personally I hope Varian kills Garrosh in single combat.
@MrRobertSama spoiler!!!! did you know that thrall is not gonna be the leader of the horde or orcs when cata comes garrosh will but they didint say what is thrall doing
@MrRobertSama He does too hate Orcs and Thrall, if you did the Alliance Wrathgate questline you would know that, but Varian does hold honor highly, and wasn't going to kill Saurfang, especially because there were more important matters to attend to such as the Scourge. Besides, why wouldn't he hate the Orcs? He was not only enslaved by them, he's at war with them! He could easily hold up the white flag and call it quits if he didn't.
Then Thrall might have started actually DOING that by having his Gromkar stop the experiments on the Alliance prisoners there!
One of those orcs directly under Thralls command even screams a sobbing human who is most likely to have parts of her brain removed while still concious to shut up...
@nielsdejong that was sylvanas not thrall, they are merely allies, thrall only allows sylvanas to perform such acts because he doesn't want to take arms against the forsaken, sylvanas can freely command any of the horde's units at any time with thralls permission of course. when she finally reveals the truth to the horde in cataclysm garrosh is disgusted, thrall never witnessed the forsaken's actions and thourght of them merely as an ally. shit's gonna hit the fan when he finds out though.
@Problems123 Make peace? His people invade Azeroth, murder half of the human populace, become allies with zombies who are twice as bad as the Lich King ever was (not to mention they turned the BIRTH PLACE of the Alliance into a fucking hell hole) and you think the humans will just smile and accept a peace offering?!?!?!
@MrRobertSama the undead havent betrayed the horde there using the horde for personal reasons such as killing the humans and killing the scourge. the horde undead is the forsaken wich broke free from the lich kings grasp. and varian hates thrall because hes a orc. humanity should be grateful for the orcs because he tried to save them from the scourge but arthus's father refused thralls help and jaina knew thrall and medivh were right and set off with thrall to save azeroth.
@MrRobertSama The Undead did not betray the Horde. Grand Apothecary Putress betrayed the Undead and and unleashed his venom in order to serve his true master, the Lich King. Get your facts straight before posting stupid shit like that.
Well he thinks saurfangs son acted heroicly at the Wrathgate
Still, he is angry at the Horde as a whole for letting the forsaken experiment on innocent humans in the undercity (which used to be human aka alliance lands) and is angry at Thrall for doing nothing against it, and at Sylvannes for making the plague in the first place
He accepts that individual orcs can do heroic deeds, but still dislikes the Horde as a whole for their part in for instance the battlegorounds and the Wrathgates
LOL still cant believe Muradin survived. For so many years we thought he died but he became the frostborn dwarf King while he lost his memories :P sometimes WoW suprises ppl
That being said, This further helps my opinion of Varian. He does not trust orcs because they have long been his enemies. And he has no respect for those who show him none. Thrall is the most level-headed in that he is always respectful, but Garrosh purposefully provokes Varian to anger in incredibly dishonourable and disrespectful ways. The reason I lose respect for Thrall is that while he clearly gets annoyed by these outbursts, he never does anything to punish or prevent them. He needs aspine
@TheRoyalKnight He did give Saurfang much respect, which shows he can treat them as people, despite his mistrust of their kind and constant provocation from Garrosh, not to mention the many, many horrible things down to those he loved by orcs throughout his life. Yeah, he distrusts orcs. But this is him getting over it. Which is why it's epic. His stubbornness was what made people hat him. He just couldn't get over it before. But he does here. Hence Jaina's crying.
I dont think a brown skin deserve a title of warchief....after all Thrall made a place for horde to live but then garrosh shows up and take chief position lol how is that fair?
What i think is both of them have their weakness Thrall-cant decide what to do Garrosh-somehow he's like his father who see killing is the meaning to live on
I never understood why this little upstart piece of shit became the second in command and the warchief of the horde. Is he a good commander? No, he isnt. Is he a good fighter? No, he just beaten Thrall when he was distracted, otherwise all he did was brooding at a fireplace. Is he a wise diplomat? He is insulting Thrall, Varian, Jaina and Tirion among others. Man, he is surely good in making powerful enemies...
@Szgerle Some say Thrall made him warchief.I really dont want Thrall to be replaced either he's a legend.Also it doesnt make sense how a brown skin can best a green skin.Green are suppose to be much stronger according to lore.
"One lone orc" comment is before the Saurfang fight. Not when his father lands. "Don't force me hand" is when Saurfang's father first comes, then he says "Behind you lies the body of my only son, nothing will keep me from him" then Muradin sadly says "I....I can't do it, go back to yer ship" but then Wrynn appears and asks Muradin to stand down. Saurfand retrives the corpse and thanks Varian. Varian speaks highly of Saurfang's death at the Wrathgate. Jaina is proud.
this infact gives me a little more repsect for him still im both horde and ally and i both hate garrosh and varian but still this gives me some more respect for him
He is simply pissed at the orcs for talking about peace, yet attacking alliance lands 24/7. Not to mention he completely had it with the orcs after seeing what happened at the undercity (dead human bodies, human female fighting abomination etc.)
If Orgrimmar was taken over by undead orcs who were allied to the Alliance, and had expriments on orcs, Thrall would have freaked out as well, attacking instantly
@nielsdejong He has been racist LONNNNNNNG before that.... Thrall wants peace... Varian wants war.... Varian is the equivalent of Garrosh in the Horde... Besides hes the most ridiculous leader to date. Bolvar was 10x the character varian will ever hope to be.
Bolvar did nothing while in the battlegrounds the Horde has been attacking Alliance lands 24/7. This went on for all those years he was away, and still the Horde talked about how they wanted "peace"
Varian just got fed up with it, and put it how it was :)
So all i have to say is:
FOR THE ALLIANCE! FOR STORMWIND! FOR KING VARIAN WRYNN!
ROFL.... Horde attack the Alliiance... Alliance backstab the horde by their plotting and scheming... You are a pitiful alliance fanboy if you cant distinguish between their roles... Also I pity you because after all I have said you still try to put Horde and Alliance on good and bad sides... They are 2 factions fighting for dominance.... Also... What do you think about the Alliance holding horde captive in concentration camps and then you declare that you want peace?
ALSO Majority of the Horde quests that have to deal with attacking alliance are majority when the alliance are in Horde territory so dont give me that bull. Also these quests are not given by a valid official so they are not a valid argument for the Horde. A valid argument would be if thrall told you to go attack the alliance. Otherwise any quest would be given by a non-official therefore the only way you can distinguish the two factions is based on Lore.
Now now lets look at Lore.... Orcs became bloodfrenzied because of the demons attack the Humans... Orcs broke free of the demon spell... Orcs were imprisoned by the alliance. Orcs were freed Orcs set up Kalimdor as their home. During the time of their possession some orc clan was exiled... They set up camp in an uninhabited place. Then we go past fighting to now.... Orcs have Camps in Alliance settlements. Humans Have camps in orcish lands..... Dwarven have camps in tauren land
Blood elves have camps in Azuremyst, Night Elves have camps in Sunstrider. Now, remember that group of orcs that was exiled because they didn't like the idea of drinking demons blood? They moved to Alterac Valley to escape the destruction... Alterac valley was uninhabited. Dwarves come to mine in Alterac Valley... Orcs attack them... Dwarves mount a full scale invasion of alterac valley.... Now move to warsong gulch....
Warsong Gulch.... Orcs were cutting wood in the Elves territory... the Elves attack the orcs... Tada ... (Wait a minute?? That sounds like Alterac valley) so if you say alterac valley was the Orcs fault then Warsong Gulch was the night elves fault.... Either way its a reversal and disproving 1 side for your faction proves the other 1 for the opposing faction. Alliance attack Undercity after the Wrathgate. Thrall was already beginning to handle this because of the brutallity.
@nielsdejong Oh and PS: The Horde are not the only faction that is attacking.... The alliance have tons and tons of spies and buildings on kalimdor which are objects for horde quests.... Also.... Alterac Valley
Alterac valley? You mean THE Alterac valley which stands on Dwarven lands? The alteral valley which the Frostwolves just took because the Dwarves weren't attacking and now it just theirs? That alterac valley?
Hardly.... The dwarfs were not living there therefore it is not their land... Also it has been known that the Alterac Valley was never known to be dwarven occupied... The Alterac Mountains were... The Dwarves wanted to search the Alterac Valley to see if they DID actually live there. They were attacked by their opposing faction which because of that they got butthurt and assaulted the orcs.... In FACT that means that the dwarfs are the Assaulters and the Frostwolf are Defending
Therefore the children think that because the alliance have humans they are the good guys. This is NOT true at all... The Alliance is an opposing faction... The Horde is an opposing Faction... Both have their styles... Horde attack outright... Alliance attack sneakily and use more of a Spy, Plan, Attack strategy. However I am a varian hater and I wish they would've picked another leader just as I wish Garrosh wouldn't be the leader of the horde in cata... yay Varian for Horde!...
And while i don't think the Horde is stereotypical evil, i do know they have the more evil tended quests, and so far have been attacking alliance lands 24/7
THAT is what i like about the lore. The Horde isn't automatically evil as in your typical fantasy setting, because they are sentient beings with a choise in this matter.
However because of this last one they may even be worse: They still choose to attack alliance lands, while claiming to only want "peace"
Even their fanbase is trying to defend their actions while they still attack the Dwarven lands.
THAT is what i like about this game :) We actually defend fictional factions and their actions.
And if you would like to check wowwiki, you'll see that the Alterac Valley is just one of many Valleys under the control of the frostpike dwarves. They didn't use it for a while, but that doesn't make it any less theirs.
And they were attacked while unarmed, looking around their own lands
As you can see Alliance and Horde have EQUAL blunders and equal evil deeds done. So you saying that the Horde are worse because they do more bad stuff? Quit with the "Holier than thou" attitude. Each faction attacks each other. In fact, if you think about it... Thrall has the Plague on his side. Why hasn't He unleashed that on Eastern Kingdoms? Maybe because Thrall really does want peace? Bolvar was still 10x the leader Varian will ever hope to be...
@nielsdejong Also ONE FINAL THING..... Alterac valley was never inhabited by the Stormpike... That information was added a while back and is incorrect. Alterac Valley was POSSIBLY inhabited by the Dwarven Ancestors. The dwarves wanted to go mine there because they wanted to find out if their ancestors actually did live there and they were looking to find relics. Otherwise, Alterac valley has been inhabited by the Orcs ever since Orcs first came to Azeroth
But Above all I believe Alliance and Horde to be equal... The only reason I argue is because people from the opposing faction believe their side is "Holier than thou"
I could go on explaining to you how the Alliance are just as evil as they claim the horde are but the point is... I think they are both equally destructive, vicious as eachother. I have characters on both sides. The problem is that Alliance Fanboys like you start saying NAO NAO ALLIANCE IS TEH GOOD GUYS (Which is the stereotype created by children because they see that the Alliance have humans and other races relating to human) And the Horde have Burly ugly races.
However, i don't have my opinion based on being an "Alliance fanboy" Seeing as i have characters on both sides, nor do i have the stereotype you suggested :)
I based my opinion around the lore that goes in the world of warcraft universe. I base it upon looking at the battlegrounds, the Horde quests i did with my Horde toons, and characters on the Horde side.
So no, individually, the orcs and Horde are not your average evil creatures.
However, that only makes their actions even worse so. They can choose to take the noble path, and not backstab the Alliance while talking about how they have changed, yet take their lands.
The alliance have their flaws, i agree, however they are still the ones being attacked here, i think that says something!
@nielsdejong varion flips out because he's bipolar. his "varion" personality is the one you see here, his "lo'gash" personality is his hot-headed side. (in one of the comics, onyxia splits him into 2 varions then he gets fused back later on but he switches personalities now and again)
Dude... cut the whole "Varian is racist" crap! He hates them because they let the Forsaken remove pieces of human prisoners their brains while they were still concious! And even when Thrall put his best men DIRECTLY UNDER HIS COMMAND there, they didn't seem to mind...
Also I've looked extensively through every in game resource and find no mention of Varok ever being given Brox's axe by Thrall....So all you have is an example of Varoks axe being broken by frostmourne.....Please dont cite a RP book for proof. the entire history of warcraft comes from the games NOT from a rp game based off of Warcraft.....movies based on Stephen King books never follow the books exclusively neither does a horde roleplayers handbook follow the actual history of Warcraft.
At the end of the end of the Knaak trilogy Krasus in orc shaman disguise gives the axe to Thrall...no mention of Varok at best you have a hopeful assumption..
You are correct. I retract my statement. It doesn't change the fact that Saurfang the Younger foolishly charged the Lich King and got one-shot for it. It also doesn't change the fact that Highlord Bolvar Fordragon was not cowering like a five-year old.
Or was he supposed to charge and assault Arthas without using basic tactics?
If you call talking Arthas to death a tactic then I guess you're right....In the end his every moment with arthas was spent doing just that Talking....I don;t think we can blame Dranosh for charging in like a berserker it's got a long and storied success rate in WOW...Hellscream, Brox, so on and so forth
Hellscream and Brox died, and they only succeeded because their enemies were caught offguard.
Dranosh charged an enemy who was fully expecting it. Arthas knew about orcs, seeing as how they were around during his time, and he presumably knew that the basic orc battle tactic was 'zerg 'em'.
It's not a good or successful tactic, mind you, since Stormwind weathered the orcs' zerg tactics for 7 years until Garona ganked the king.
Guess what? Metzen had a hand in the publishing of those books, all of which are accepted lore. You cannot cherrypick what lore you want or dislike - it is all official lore, no matter how much you dislike it.
It is official lore for the Role playing twits you know, the rolling a 1d20 types....The source books do not follow the games lore faithfully. In the end The scarlet crusade = Paladin institution.
I went and checked out a source book and I am having trouble finding any mention of the scarlet crusade being the remnants of Garithos's force. heh go figure
Must you be an ignorant twat waffle? Dranosh's soul was taken by Frostmourne there is no choice in that. ...Bolvar was killed by a mutated plague made by varimathras and putress.
Basically the whole Bolvar resisting is Blizz way of finally making an Alliance figure ally fan boys such as your self can look up to. Metzen himself has admitted his heart lies with the Horde but with a great many players being alliance sooner or later they would have to give the allies a hero...it isnt varian
Right /snicker he can barely fend off an attack with his shield hell his soldiers are being used as clubs now thats funny as hell.
Stood his ground ? He had no where else to go .....All Bolvar did was talk besides killing a few skinny little skeletons. Basically all this seems to be is the farcical desires of a Saurfang envious Ally fan boy
The "LORE" I speak if is considered "canon" not the fanciful source books. Scarlet crusade is was and always will be a paladin institution
I know several people who "call someone out" and never do a thing much like Bolvar...He called arthas out and stood there talking (more than likely hoping Saurfang jr would kill him for him (thats known as cowardice) watch the cutscene again Bolvar can barely manage to stay alive once the Vrykul come out...While Saurfang cleaves three at once
Saurfang charges Arthas screaming "Enough talk! Let it be finished!" and gets killed in a single swipe. Bolvar, on the other hand, stands his ground defiantly, and tells Arthas that he will pay, all without backing down. He only tells them to retreat when Putress attacks.
Watch the scene with the Vrykul again. Bolvar isn't even phased before Saurfang jumps in.
And lets take a look at Brann he ran screaming from Kologarn of all things ( weakest boss in Ulduar) and Muradin got Killed (retconned into knocked out and suffering from amnesia) by a hunk of ice..... oh please!! man get a grip ...I play Alliance too but my ego doesnt need to falsify written lore to feel secure.
Whatever you say buddy. Funny I can link a proven statement on the origins of the Scarlet Crusade and all you can do say nuh uhhhh...Proof or GFTO is the usual answer. Bolvar was getting his ass handed to him when Drannosh came to his rescue. Sure Drannosh got nailed by the Lich king I already mentioned that the point is all bolvar did is stand their waiting for the big bad orc to do his job for him....That wasnt Broxx's Axe either that was broken... did it look like wood to you?
Bolvar challenged Arthas twice, or did you forget that in the time between Jr. rushing in to Leeroy Arthas? Bolvar never had his ass handed to him either.
The SC's orgins are in...the Horde Player's Guide, I believe.
Brox's axe was given to Varok. Varok gave it to his son (it's mentioned as 'his father's axe')
Pshh Brann and Muradin combined with a bomb strapped on couldnt take Saurfang....Lets look at teh saurfang family..Broxigar the only mortal to ever hurt Sargeras ( the actual sargeras not an avatar)....J.R. had balls enough to charge the lich king while Bolvar sat back trembling....and then Varok who is bad enough to use chuck norris for a mount...BTW use wowwiki and look up garithos and scarlet crusade for anyone who wants proof....actual proof not some ally fan boys rewriting of lore
JR Leeroyed Arthas and got one-shot. That's not an example of bravery, that's an example of stupidity. WoWWiki does not ahve all the information either; it also comes from the various sourcebooks. Bolvar was never trembling either, since he challenged Arthas to face them in person.
Broxigar's power came from his goddamn axe (which got broken by Arthas), and Varok is a tired old orc who got turned into an internet meme.
Next up....You need to reread your lore. the scarlet crusade is NOT garithos's force....Theyre remnants of the silver hand who're more blood thirsty and zealous than other more moderate paladins. Nice try with the rewritten Alliance twisted history lesson : FAIL
The Scarlet Crusade is more than just the remnants of the Silver Hand (who are currently based in Stormwind). They're also the remnants of Lordaeron's forces that escaped decimation by the Scourge, including the survivors of the attack by Sylvanas.
Although Garithos live in the continent of Lordaeron and one of his gag quotes is "In memory of Terenas", he has the Stormwind banner in his shield. As there is no concrete information, it is unknown what his kingdom is.
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To assume that Thrall should know every nook and cranny of what his allies are doing in the shadows is a very unfair judgement, and you guys should know this. Suppose we found out that Israel was torturing and experimenting on Palestinians. Is that our fault? No, clearly not. Just be happy that he's doing something about it now.
Thrall should, since he's the supreme leader of the Horde, and the RAS was right next to Sylvanas' throne room. The RAS was also offering players quests to further the biological weapon they were developing.
Frankly horde players sicken me to the core, im all serious when I say this. they disgust me. they have no love for thier own species, they act like assholes half the time, they twist the lore to suit thier own needs when it suits them, they say ANYTHNIG at all to protect thier delusion that the horde should rule the whole damn world and that Humanity should either be killed or enslaved.
Ok. First of all chill out. Im an Alliance player/suporter all the way but try to understand the Horde a little more. They are like the humans real life were in their pritive cultures. The orcs are humans with green skin. The point is: In a fanasy world like WoW an Orc life has the same value than a Human life.
The thing I am sure is that the Alliance have always had the moral hig ground and therefore their actions are much more undesrtandable in my eyes than the actions of the Horde.
NOBODY can defeat saurfang, he will cleave you out of existance before it happens
TrollUrFaceIn 1 week ago
Garrosh + mannoroths blood= true powerful war chief that will obliterate Arthas and his minions by himself
UnholyImport 1 month ago
I think one varian's biggest reasons for his hatred is that he watch his father get killed by an Orc. Tho he doesn't know that the Orc reluctantly killed king lane because he was kind to her. ( lol little back story)
Theoneeiththeface 7 months ago
*Varian being a softy*
*Jaina starts crying*
Varian: Bah! Muradin! >:(
Lol, I love Varian more and more ♥♥♥
zafara1222 7 months ago
I guess there's hope for Varian after all.
Garrosh... let me just say I prefer Thrall.
NShomebase 7 months ago
saurfang is a true war hero
nuttyjunior 1 year ago
Couldn't Saurfang just cleave his way through?!
dreamer4e 1 year ago
Thrall was an excellent diplomatic leader. But times have changed, and I loves me a warchief who won't take shit from Alliance, no matter the "diplomatic" consequences.
blueshoals 1 year ago
by Suarfang....im talking about high overlord suarfang, who can take on marudin, varian, and jaina, by himself and blindfolded with no legs(;
dortega9 1 year ago
Of course, no Alliance has bothered to see what Garrosh is like recently, having just taken leadership of the Horde. He's not the bloodthirsty warmonger he was all through wrath. If both Garrosh and Wrynn are coming to their senses, I'm curious as to what provokes war between them in Cataclysm.
Paradox506 1 year ago
idk why, but its funny when saurfang calls varian "Highness"
SGVknarf 1 year ago
Can i get the part with A lone orc agains the mighty alliance? ty :D
diTer2gm 1 year ago
this makes me hate thrall fer not helpin icc raid i iz glad in cata that he wont be warchief anymore
lazersify 1 year ago
This...this almost ruins the prospect of cata for me.
nocliper101 1 year ago
haha jaina proudmoore seems to have an orgasm
Blixten90 1 year ago
OK, to stop this why the blood elfs were betrayed by the allaince discussion/ they are eventually going to leave the horde.... even if they do leave the horde, they arent going to the alliance,mind you that HIGH elves were in the allaince, not BLOOD elves, and high/blood elves hold a somewhat hate for the night elves, seeing how they forbid them from useing the arcane arts and they cast them out to the eastern kingdoms........................ O yeah, Suarfang would Cleave threw maurudin anyday(:
dortega9 1 year ago
@dortega9
The High elves are STILL on the Alliance :) Their about as numerous as the blood elves. The Alliance shunned the blood elves because their use of fel energy. This had nothing to do with their betrayal by GARITHOS, who was a warlord and didn't speak for the entire Alliance :) Hence why the High elves are still with them :)
And no, actually in this fight he lost :)
nielsdejong 1 year ago
"why you crying my lady?"
"it was nothing"
whoops didnt get it in did u king varian..
Perramino123 1 year ago
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lilanneelise 1 year ago
@lilanneelise you don't know much about the lore, do you?
Zatsukai 1 year ago
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lilanneelise 1 year ago
@lilanneelise the night elves helped the blood elves get back to their capital city. and garithos was an asshole, yes, but its the blood elves who betrayed them (even though it was understandable) let alone the thousands of years during wich they were allies. and also, its the draenei and the naaru that helped the blood elves get the sunwell back and stop their addiction. I'm just saying that after BC, blood elves may not be so legitimate to be in the horde anymore. but this is my point of view.
Zatsukai 1 year ago
@Zatsukai Wrong again. See the evidence. The alliance betrayed the blood elves and to claim anything else is to prove that you are brainless shitwit. Watch the video "Why the Blood Elf Left The Alliance" and grow a brain.
lilanneelise 1 year ago
@Zatsukai To put the events in the time line: on the way to assist the alliance, the blood elves were attacked by night elves. Then, Garrithos attempted to ensure that the blood elves would die in battle. The, Kael accepts help from the naga in order to survive and win the battle for the alliance. The Garrithos trumps up a treason charge to have the ENTIRE RACE EXECUTED. The alliance is nothing but a collection of traitors and backstabbers, lead by humans who have no concept of honor.
lilanneelise 1 year ago
@lilanneelise
AHUM!
Garrithos was a warlord that gathered the survivors together, he didn't speak for the entire Alliance.
Or are you saying that the Horde are a bunch of Demon colaberators because Kaelthas later joins the Burning legion? :)
Also the only honourless ones are the Horde, they use every dirty trick in the book, and even attack Alliance lands while talking about peace :)
Remember, your the aggressors in Wow :)
nielsdejong 1 year ago
@lilanneelise well... I'd say your sources and informations are good, but outdated. several things occured after this. and also, the alliance are not like this anymore. FAR from this. it was corrupted before, but the alliance will flourish with the return of varian. you should read the posts on wow.com about alliance and horde politics and lore. im not saying all you say is shit, but it helps to see things under different angles
Zatsukai 1 year ago
Sounds like Jaina's having an orgasm.
SabbraCadabra 1 year ago 17
1:17 MOVA!
Tabulaattori 1 year ago
Hmm...Muradin BronzeAss real son of a bıtch in this game...really...
IncubusTR 1 year ago
sooo to sumarize, garrosh should die(actually hope he does), saurfang kick ass, and the fact muradin defeated saurfang pops was a blizz play to EVENTUALLY make varyan look a bit less of a jerk
exia1504 1 year ago
wonder how this is gona shape up in cata with thrall leaving and garrosh taking over...i hate garrosh hes a dick cant take a chill pill. hes gona fuck up the little peace there is with the alliance and horde :/ prepaire for battle!
sasquach3758 1 year ago
@sasquach3758 i agree garrosh is a cocky lil dick thatw ants alli and horde to fight all day i bet if he wa playing WoW he'd be a hardcore pvp nerd :|
superwowman100 1 year ago
what happens as alliance: saurfang runs out, says alliance sucks balls and fight starts, muradin & soldiers get trapped & fight starts.
saurfang dies and muradin & soldiers get released, the saurfang senior comes and wants to get his body, muradin goes like GTFO, the varyn goes, OMFG STFU muradin.
DeresteauR 1 year ago 2
@DeresteauR haha nice description!!! XDDD
superwowman100 1 year ago
jaina is fucking emo fag
whysoserioussan 1 year ago
this is a great reason to show varian is a tempered warrior and leader. and yeah take that varian haters! :P
demonhunter187 1 year ago
I think Muradin is the new Chuck Noris, saurfang was to much of a wimp and cry baby
RWB1111111 1 year ago
@RWB1111111
RWB1111111 has just died from getting cleaved by saurfang for posting such a ridiculous comment about saurfang being a wimp and a cry baby
langgam2000 1 year ago
@langgam2000 he's a old man now really he's not to speachial any more, Muradin is strong, young, and can kick his ass
6oobs 1 year ago
@6oobs actually muradin didnt defeated saurfang, they didnt even fought...
exia1504 1 year ago 3
@langgam2000 sry brother keeps using my account first comments wasnt me
6oobs 1 year ago
MrRobertSama, you have no actual proof to what you claim here. So he has one moment when he overlooks his hatred of orcs to let Varok claim the body of his son, that doesn't mean anything when he regards all orcs as savages and wants to see them wiped out. And if you think otherwise, I suppose the tension raised between horde and alliance in cataclysm start is nothing to do with him then?
kimahri45k 1 year ago
OKOK Varian os ok but he and Garosh GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Isathurisaz 1 year ago
XD varyan´s getting laid for sure!! XD
exia1504 1 year ago
Them Varian Hated make me sick!!!!
Troo44 1 year ago
ha ha ha, Jaina is MooreProud over her king!
kyhle111 1 year ago
allaince killed saurfangs son then his father comes to claim the body then varian come through a portal and lets him claim the body
tjferg4 1 year ago
i think varian is getting some tonight
punksush1 1 year ago
I still dislike Varian, but I dislike Garrosh even more... always have... And I am all about the Horde...
Heishikaze 1 year ago
@Heishikaze You don't like Varian :D? Dude check the Lore! He is the one Killing Onyxia.. Everything in his life was fucked up.. no wonder he is such an ass...
As for Garrosh... Cry baby who wants to become hero as his father...
KragJin 1 year ago
muradin ftw ! :D
netharell 1 year ago
Varian is actually a good guy, hes got every right to hate the horde but deep down he is kind
Themadhorse 1 year ago 5
yay go varian ^^
gaudianangel567 1 year ago 3
I'd probably cry as well if my boyfreind decided to not kick the other guys head in in a fight.
miltonluvsno1 1 year ago
Jaina... why are you crying...?
Uh... uuuh.... Nothing... Uuuh... SAURFANG!!!!
JAINA! NO!!!
*stabs Saurfang* HOW COULD YOU!?
*Jaina shakes her ass* Room for one more?
SLUUUUUUT!
iLoveMusicMuchly 1 year ago
Jaina is a slut, offically proven in the wow books, she fucked arthas- thrall, and soon enough varian wrynn.
brutal6agani 1 year ago
Exactly where did you find Jaina having a relationship of any kind other than friends and allies with Thrall? Because to the extent of my knowledge, Arthas has- up to this point- been the one and only love of her life, physically and emotionally. The Warcraft RPG even explicitly says she has NOT had a previous relationship with Thrall, so which source of canon are you using?
Also, not many people would consider two guys enough to be called a slut even if she had, but you know.. xD
WyrdFayth 1 year ago
@brutal6agani She caused her father's death..must be because he scold her too much about being a slut XD lolz
Slade951 1 year ago
i have a question because i roll horde and have never seen this discussion happen: does this mean that Varian now understands what happened at the wrathgate and accepts that the horde wasnt responsible? he say that his soldiers have told him what happened and now he's sympathetic to one of the horde's greatest heroes of all time. so, if he still hates the horde with all his heart because of wrathgate then does that mean he thinks the horde killed dranosh on purpose and saurfang didnt know?
piechieftain 2 years ago
No Varian has accepted that the Undead betrayed the Horde and they were responsible, Varian dosent hate the Orcs entirely and he certainly dosent hate Thrall but that meat head Garrosh is a different matter. Personally I hope Varian kills Garrosh in single combat.
MrRobertSama 2 years ago 23
@MrRobertSama spoiler!!!! did you know that thrall is not gonna be the leader of the horde or orcs when cata comes garrosh will but they didint say what is thrall doing
darkdude103 1 year ago
@MrRobertSama
Mutual Kill...would make a lot of folks happy
shikatsu 1 year ago
@shikatsu Not me. :P
MrRobertSama 1 year ago
@MrRobertSama im a horde and i think that i would like this very much aswell :)
bloodngutzzz 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bloodngutzzz See, Alliance and Horde can agree on some thing's. :D
MrRobertSama 1 year ago
@MrRobertSama He does too hate Orcs and Thrall, if you did the Alliance Wrathgate questline you would know that, but Varian does hold honor highly, and wasn't going to kill Saurfang, especially because there were more important matters to attend to such as the Scourge. Besides, why wouldn't he hate the Orcs? He was not only enslaved by them, he's at war with them! He could easily hold up the white flag and call it quits if he didn't.
koollikesnow 1 year ago 3
@koollikesnow but yet thrall is (was) trying to make peace with them, after all, thrall was also enslaved by humans.
Problems123 11 months ago
@Problems123
Then Thrall might have started actually DOING that by having his Gromkar stop the experiments on the Alliance prisoners there!
One of those orcs directly under Thralls command even screams a sobbing human who is most likely to have parts of her brain removed while still concious to shut up...
nielsdejong 10 months ago 4
@nielsdejong that was sylvanas not thrall, they are merely allies, thrall only allows sylvanas to perform such acts because he doesn't want to take arms against the forsaken, sylvanas can freely command any of the horde's units at any time with thralls permission of course. when she finally reveals the truth to the horde in cataclysm garrosh is disgusted, thrall never witnessed the forsaken's actions and thourght of them merely as an ally. shit's gonna hit the fan when he finds out though.
brainjuice654 7 months ago
@Problems123 Make peace? His people invade Azeroth, murder half of the human populace, become allies with zombies who are twice as bad as the Lich King ever was (not to mention they turned the BIRTH PLACE of the Alliance into a fucking hell hole) and you think the humans will just smile and accept a peace offering?!?!?!
Nemesis2815 2 months ago
@Nemesis2815 shit happend a long time ago and orcs were controlled by burning legion
Problems123 2 months ago
@MrRobertSama the undead havent betrayed the horde there using the horde for personal reasons such as killing the humans and killing the scourge. the horde undead is the forsaken wich broke free from the lich kings grasp. and varian hates thrall because hes a orc. humanity should be grateful for the orcs because he tried to save them from the scourge but arthus's father refused thralls help and jaina knew thrall and medivh were right and set off with thrall to save azeroth.
RushCharge 1 year ago 3
@MrRobertSama And Thrall will be the warchief again
TheShadowofwarcraft 1 year ago
@MrRobertSama
NO, YOU WON'T TOUCH MY GARROSH!
He's one of my favourite characters in game, like Varian.
Tratatai 1 year ago
@Tratatai Death to Garrosh. :D
MrRobertSama 1 year ago
@MrRobertSama The Undead did not betray the Horde. Grand Apothecary Putress betrayed the Undead and and unleashed his venom in order to serve his true master, the Lich King. Get your facts straight before posting stupid shit like that.
chilluout 1 year ago
@chilluout Uh huh keep on thinking that it'll be so funny when plague bombs rain down on orgrimmar.
MrRobertSama 1 year ago
@MrRobertSama
You know what? This horde player agrees with your last statement. Kill. Garrosh. Nao.
Fr0stDog 1 year ago
Well he thinks saurfangs son acted heroicly at the Wrathgate
Still, he is angry at the Horde as a whole for letting the forsaken experiment on innocent humans in the undercity (which used to be human aka alliance lands) and is angry at Thrall for doing nothing against it, and at Sylvannes for making the plague in the first place
He accepts that individual orcs can do heroic deeds, but still dislikes the Horde as a whole for their part in for instance the battlegorounds and the Wrathgates
nielsdejong 1 year ago 2
Also he's a father of a boy which means he understand how a father will feel. He thinks that atleast he should let a father burry his son's body.
Slade951 1 year ago 4
what the O.o how could saurfang lose in the first place :/
RTALaggzor1 2 years ago
Muradin Bronzebeard is our answer to Varok Saurfang, you really dont wanna mess with either one. :)
MrRobertSama 2 years ago 9
LOL still cant believe Muradin survived. For so many years we thought he died but he became the frostborn dwarf King while he lost his memories :P sometimes WoW suprises ppl
Slade951 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hope Bolvar becomes the new Lich King and sets the undead loose on Orgrimmar. Then we can be rid of those green skinned savages once and for all.
Pontios25 2 years ago
lol
DivineForcesBro 2 years ago
Bitch we would own you
unstopable1456 2 years ago
That being said, This further helps my opinion of Varian. He does not trust orcs because they have long been his enemies. And he has no respect for those who show him none. Thrall is the most level-headed in that he is always respectful, but Garrosh purposefully provokes Varian to anger in incredibly dishonourable and disrespectful ways. The reason I lose respect for Thrall is that while he clearly gets annoyed by these outbursts, he never does anything to punish or prevent them. He needs aspine
DoodTheDud 2 years ago 5
How does he not trust orcs? He just gave Saurfang as much respect as anyone can
At least Varian is in ICC LOL. Thrall is a coward and hides behind Garrosh
TheRoyalKnight 2 years ago
@TheRoyalKnight He did give Saurfang much respect, which shows he can treat them as people, despite his mistrust of their kind and constant provocation from Garrosh, not to mention the many, many horrible things down to those he loved by orcs throughout his life. Yeah, he distrusts orcs. But this is him getting over it. Which is why it's epic. His stubbornness was what made people hat him. He just couldn't get over it before. But he does here. Hence Jaina's crying.
DoodTheDud 2 years ago 5
That's cause Thrall is too busy polishing his totems, no time for silly fights against the scourge.
Pontios25 2 years ago 16
he's a pussy
TheRoyalKnight 2 years ago
Or becouse he is a tottal fag now sadly, and he will be replaced by garosh, GG for horde.
brutal6agani 1 year ago
I dont think a brown skin deserve a title of warchief....after all Thrall made a place for horde to live but then garrosh shows up and take chief position lol how is that fair?
What i think is both of them have their weakness Thrall-cant decide what to do Garrosh-somehow he's like his father who see killing is the meaning to live on
Slade951 1 year ago 2
I never understood why this little upstart piece of shit became the second in command and the warchief of the horde. Is he a good commander? No, he isnt. Is he a good fighter? No, he just beaten Thrall when he was distracted, otherwise all he did was brooding at a fireplace. Is he a wise diplomat? He is insulting Thrall, Varian, Jaina and Tirion among others. Man, he is surely good in making powerful enemies...
Szgerle 1 year ago
@Szgerle Some say Thrall made him warchief.I really dont want Thrall to be replaced either he's a legend.Also it doesnt make sense how a brown skin can best a green skin.Green are suppose to be much stronger according to lore.
Slade951 1 year ago
I really, really wish Rhonin hadnt separate them when garrosh attacked Varian in Dalaran.
Some upstart kids vs the gladiator champion of azeroth woulrve been a fun match to watch.
Szgerle 1 year ago
Nah he's busy thinking of Jaina who is now hanging out with Varian lol
Slade951 1 year ago 2
"One lone orc" comment is before the Saurfang fight. Not when his father lands. "Don't force me hand" is when Saurfang's father first comes, then he says "Behind you lies the body of my only son, nothing will keep me from him" then Muradin sadly says "I....I can't do it, go back to yer ship" but then Wrynn appears and asks Muradin to stand down. Saurfand retrives the corpse and thanks Varian. Varian speaks highly of Saurfang's death at the Wrathgate. Jaina is proud.
That is the order.
DoodTheDud 2 years ago
this infact gives me a little more repsect for him still im both horde and ally and i both hate garrosh and varian but still this gives me some more respect for him
But Thrall still kicks he's ass :D
TheMusician44 2 years ago
Garrosh takes after his father Hellscream if u read Hellscream history you'll notice that he likes to kill alot :P
Slade951 1 year ago 3
God, I hate Jaina.
BoyofmanyNames 2 years ago 3
still thrall is better :)
Noobzie123 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I don't think he is, infact I think he is a weakling and a fool.
GovernorDerek 2 years ago
Go Varian! :D
And yeah: Take that Varian haters ;p
nielsdejong 2 years ago 20
@nielsdejong
Oh ya 1 quote out of all the other 20 times hes said FUCK ORCs...
jjmop3 1 year ago
@nielsdejong
Even Jaina is like holy crap.... did varian finally do something not racist to orcs.
jjmop3 1 year ago
@jjmop3
Racist?
He is simply pissed at the orcs for talking about peace, yet attacking alliance lands 24/7. Not to mention he completely had it with the orcs after seeing what happened at the undercity (dead human bodies, human female fighting abomination etc.)
If Orgrimmar was taken over by undead orcs who were allied to the Alliance, and had expriments on orcs, Thrall would have freaked out as well, attacking instantly
Yet now Varian is a racist?
.... Yeah....
nielsdejong 1 year ago 14
@nielsdejong He has been racist LONNNNNNNG before that.... Thrall wants peace... Varian wants war.... Varian is the equivalent of Garrosh in the Horde... Besides hes the most ridiculous leader to date. Bolvar was 10x the character varian will ever hope to be.
jjmop3 1 year ago
@jjmop3
Nope,
Bolvar did nothing while in the battlegrounds the Horde has been attacking Alliance lands 24/7. This went on for all those years he was away, and still the Horde talked about how they wanted "peace"
Varian just got fed up with it, and put it how it was :)
So all i have to say is:
FOR THE ALLIANCE! FOR STORMWIND! FOR KING VARIAN WRYNN!
Nothing more needs to be add i think ;)
nielsdejong 1 year ago
@nielsdejong
ROFL.... Horde attack the Alliiance... Alliance backstab the horde by their plotting and scheming... You are a pitiful alliance fanboy if you cant distinguish between their roles... Also I pity you because after all I have said you still try to put Horde and Alliance on good and bad sides... They are 2 factions fighting for dominance.... Also... What do you think about the Alliance holding horde captive in concentration camps and then you declare that you want peace?
jjmop3 1 year ago 2
@nielsdejong
ALSO Majority of the Horde quests that have to deal with attacking alliance are majority when the alliance are in Horde territory so dont give me that bull. Also these quests are not given by a valid official so they are not a valid argument for the Horde. A valid argument would be if thrall told you to go attack the alliance. Otherwise any quest would be given by a non-official therefore the only way you can distinguish the two factions is based on Lore.
jjmop3 1 year ago
Now now lets look at Lore.... Orcs became bloodfrenzied because of the demons attack the Humans... Orcs broke free of the demon spell... Orcs were imprisoned by the alliance. Orcs were freed Orcs set up Kalimdor as their home. During the time of their possession some orc clan was exiled... They set up camp in an uninhabited place. Then we go past fighting to now.... Orcs have Camps in Alliance settlements. Humans Have camps in orcish lands..... Dwarven have camps in tauren land
jjmop3 1 year ago
@nielsdejong
Blood elves have camps in Azuremyst, Night Elves have camps in Sunstrider. Now, remember that group of orcs that was exiled because they didn't like the idea of drinking demons blood? They moved to Alterac Valley to escape the destruction... Alterac valley was uninhabited. Dwarves come to mine in Alterac Valley... Orcs attack them... Dwarves mount a full scale invasion of alterac valley.... Now move to warsong gulch....
jjmop3 1 year ago
@nielsdejong
Warsong Gulch.... Orcs were cutting wood in the Elves territory... the Elves attack the orcs... Tada ... (Wait a minute?? That sounds like Alterac valley) so if you say alterac valley was the Orcs fault then Warsong Gulch was the night elves fault.... Either way its a reversal and disproving 1 side for your faction proves the other 1 for the opposing faction. Alliance attack Undercity after the Wrathgate. Thrall was already beginning to handle this because of the brutallity.
jjmop3 1 year ago
@nielsdejong Oh and PS: The Horde are not the only faction that is attacking.... The alliance have tons and tons of spies and buildings on kalimdor which are objects for horde quests.... Also.... Alterac Valley
jjmop3 1 year ago
@jjmop3
Alterac valley? You mean THE Alterac valley which stands on Dwarven lands? The alteral valley which the Frostwolves just took because the Dwarves weren't attacking and now it just theirs? That alterac valley?
I think i've proven my point :)
nielsdejong 1 year ago
@nielsdejong
Hardly.... The dwarfs were not living there therefore it is not their land... Also it has been known that the Alterac Valley was never known to be dwarven occupied... The Alterac Mountains were... The Dwarves wanted to search the Alterac Valley to see if they DID actually live there. They were attacked by their opposing faction which because of that they got butthurt and assaulted the orcs.... In FACT that means that the dwarfs are the Assaulters and the Frostwolf are Defending
jjmop3 1 year ago
@nielsdejong
Therefore the children think that because the alliance have humans they are the good guys. This is NOT true at all... The Alliance is an opposing faction... The Horde is an opposing Faction... Both have their styles... Horde attack outright... Alliance attack sneakily and use more of a Spy, Plan, Attack strategy. However I am a varian hater and I wish they would've picked another leader just as I wish Garrosh wouldn't be the leader of the horde in cata... yay Varian for Horde!...
jjmop3 1 year ago
And while i don't think the Horde is stereotypical evil, i do know they have the more evil tended quests, and so far have been attacking alliance lands 24/7
THAT is what i like about the lore. The Horde isn't automatically evil as in your typical fantasy setting, because they are sentient beings with a choise in this matter.
However because of this last one they may even be worse: They still choose to attack alliance lands, while claiming to only want "peace"
nielsdejong 1 year ago
@jjmop3
Even their fanbase is trying to defend their actions while they still attack the Dwarven lands.
THAT is what i like about this game :) We actually defend fictional factions and their actions.
And if you would like to check wowwiki, you'll see that the Alterac Valley is just one of many Valleys under the control of the frostpike dwarves. They didn't use it for a while, but that doesn't make it any less theirs.
And they were attacked while unarmed, looking around their own lands
nielsdejong 1 year ago
@nielsdejong
As you can see Alliance and Horde have EQUAL blunders and equal evil deeds done. So you saying that the Horde are worse because they do more bad stuff? Quit with the "Holier than thou" attitude. Each faction attacks each other. In fact, if you think about it... Thrall has the Plague on his side. Why hasn't He unleashed that on Eastern Kingdoms? Maybe because Thrall really does want peace? Bolvar was still 10x the leader Varian will ever hope to be...
jjmop3 1 year ago
@nielsdejong Also ONE FINAL THING..... Alterac valley was never inhabited by the Stormpike... That information was added a while back and is incorrect. Alterac Valley was POSSIBLY inhabited by the Dwarven Ancestors. The dwarves wanted to go mine there because they wanted to find out if their ancestors actually did live there and they were looking to find relics. Otherwise, Alterac valley has been inhabited by the Orcs ever since Orcs first came to Azeroth
jjmop3 1 year ago
But Above all I believe Alliance and Horde to be equal... The only reason I argue is because people from the opposing faction believe their side is "Holier than thou"
jjmop3 1 year ago
@nielsdejong
I could go on explaining to you how the Alliance are just as evil as they claim the horde are but the point is... I think they are both equally destructive, vicious as eachother. I have characters on both sides. The problem is that Alliance Fanboys like you start saying NAO NAO ALLIANCE IS TEH GOOD GUYS (Which is the stereotype created by children because they see that the Alliance have humans and other races relating to human) And the Horde have Burly ugly races.
jjmop3 1 year ago
@jjmop3
@jjmop3
Normally I would agree.
However, i don't have my opinion based on being an "Alliance fanboy" Seeing as i have characters on both sides, nor do i have the stereotype you suggested :)
I based my opinion around the lore that goes in the world of warcraft universe. I base it upon looking at the battlegrounds, the Horde quests i did with my Horde toons, and characters on the Horde side.
nielsdejong 1 year ago
@jjmop3
So no, individually, the orcs and Horde are not your average evil creatures.
However, that only makes their actions even worse so. They can choose to take the noble path, and not backstab the Alliance while talking about how they have changed, yet take their lands.
The alliance have their flaws, i agree, however they are still the ones being attacked here, i think that says something!
nielsdejong 1 year ago
@nielsdejong varion flips out because he's bipolar. his "varion" personality is the one you see here, his "lo'gash" personality is his hot-headed side. (in one of the comics, onyxia splits him into 2 varions then he gets fused back later on but he switches personalities now and again)
shippuden2 10 months ago
@jjmop3
Dude... cut the whole "Varian is racist" crap! He hates them because they let the Forsaken remove pieces of human prisoners their brains while they were still concious! And even when Thrall put his best men DIRECTLY UNDER HIS COMMAND there, they didn't seem to mind...
nielsdejong 10 months ago 3
@nielsdejong yeah.. i was actually surprised:D
MagnusHarvest 1 year ago
Ha, ha... Dwarves...
BlackjackSP 2 years ago
Comment removed
charrokomen 2 years ago
Also I've looked extensively through every in game resource and find no mention of Varok ever being given Brox's axe by Thrall....So all you have is an example of Varoks axe being broken by frostmourne.....Please dont cite a RP book for proof. the entire history of warcraft comes from the games NOT from a rp game based off of Warcraft.....movies based on Stephen King books never follow the books exclusively neither does a horde roleplayers handbook follow the actual history of Warcraft.
charrokomen 2 years ago
bolvar = next lich king, would be fun to see if he join the alliance
leokegan 2 years ago
It's a book by Richard Knaak, but hey, it isn't lore to you now is it?
LordMortanius 2 years ago
At the end of the end of the Knaak trilogy Krasus in orc shaman disguise gives the axe to Thrall...no mention of Varok at best you have a hopeful assumption..
charrokomen 2 years ago
You are correct. I retract my statement. It doesn't change the fact that Saurfang the Younger foolishly charged the Lich King and got one-shot for it. It also doesn't change the fact that Highlord Bolvar Fordragon was not cowering like a five-year old.
Or was he supposed to charge and assault Arthas without using basic tactics?
LordMortanius 2 years ago
If you call talking Arthas to death a tactic then I guess you're right....In the end his every moment with arthas was spent doing just that Talking....I don;t think we can blame Dranosh for charging in like a berserker it's got a long and storied success rate in WOW...Hellscream, Brox, so on and so forth
charrokomen 2 years ago
Hellscream and Brox died, and they only succeeded because their enemies were caught offguard.
Dranosh charged an enemy who was fully expecting it. Arthas knew about orcs, seeing as how they were around during his time, and he presumably knew that the basic orc battle tactic was 'zerg 'em'.
It's not a good or successful tactic, mind you, since Stormwind weathered the orcs' zerg tactics for 7 years until Garona ganked the king.
LordMortanius 2 years ago 10
Not to mention that LK has Ner'Zhul soul in it :P
Slade951 1 year ago 2
Guess what? Metzen had a hand in the publishing of those books, all of which are accepted lore. You cannot cherrypick what lore you want or dislike - it is all official lore, no matter how much you dislike it.
LordMortanius 2 years ago 4
It is official lore for the Role playing twits you know, the rolling a 1d20 types....The source books do not follow the games lore faithfully. In the end The scarlet crusade = Paladin institution.
I went and checked out a source book and I am having trouble finding any mention of the scarlet crusade being the remnants of Garithos's force. heh go figure
charrokomen 2 years ago
Must you be an ignorant twat waffle? Dranosh's soul was taken by Frostmourne there is no choice in that. ...Bolvar was killed by a mutated plague made by varimathras and putress.
Basically the whole Bolvar resisting is Blizz way of finally making an Alliance figure ally fan boys such as your self can look up to. Metzen himself has admitted his heart lies with the Horde but with a great many players being alliance sooner or later they would have to give the allies a hero...it isnt varian
charrokomen 2 years ago
Oh for...
Alright, I'm done arguing here. You'll turn all my points into pro-Horde propoganda anyway, so enjoy your new Warchief.
LordMortanius 2 years ago
Varian knew if he didn't let him see his son Saurfang would just cleave them into next year. xD
dbz12292 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Varian is still a piece of shit. jaina is still a dumb bitch.
s10Maniak 2 years ago
@s10Maniak And you sir are a one sided idiot.
MrRobertSama 1 year ago
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lol rp fags
Matamuram 2 years ago
Right /snicker he can barely fend off an attack with his shield hell his soldiers are being used as clubs now thats funny as hell.
Stood his ground ? He had no where else to go .....All Bolvar did was talk besides killing a few skinny little skeletons. Basically all this seems to be is the farcical desires of a Saurfang envious Ally fan boy
charrokomen 2 years ago
If you really want to compare Saurfang and Bolvar, then Bolvar resisted torture at Arthas' hands for months while Saurfang gave in.
Why would anyone be envious of Saurfang? He's a tired old orc that has to bury his own son.
LordMortanius 2 years ago
The "LORE" I speak if is considered "canon" not the fanciful source books. Scarlet crusade is was and always will be a paladin institution
I know several people who "call someone out" and never do a thing much like Bolvar...He called arthas out and stood there talking (more than likely hoping Saurfang jr would kill him for him (thats known as cowardice) watch the cutscene again Bolvar can barely manage to stay alive once the Vrykul come out...While Saurfang cleaves three at once
charrokomen 2 years ago
Right.....
Saurfang charges Arthas screaming "Enough talk! Let it be finished!" and gets killed in a single swipe. Bolvar, on the other hand, stands his ground defiantly, and tells Arthas that he will pay, all without backing down. He only tells them to retreat when Putress attacks.
Watch the scene with the Vrykul again. Bolvar isn't even phased before Saurfang jumps in.
This Saurfang wankery has to stop.
LordMortanius 2 years ago 2
Hey, I don't hate Varian 'cause he's a racist. I hate him for his raging bitchfits, same reason I hate Garrosh. :D
The selective racism is just icing on the cake. :DD
KibouGreenbird 2 years ago
Every night before he goes to bed Sargeras checks under his bed for Saurfang!!!
charrokomen 2 years ago 3
The source books are for role playing games and not official lore (although they do copy alot of lore from the game)
The novels, Some manga( sunwell trilogy), and the game world of warcraft contain OFFICIAL LORE.
charrokomen 2 years ago
Lol fail. All books are lore.
LordMortanius 2 years ago
And lets take a look at Brann he ran screaming from Kologarn of all things ( weakest boss in Ulduar) and Muradin got Killed (retconned into knocked out and suffering from amnesia) by a hunk of ice..... oh please!! man get a grip ...I play Alliance too but my ego doesnt need to falsify written lore to feel secure.
charrokomen 2 years ago
Whatever you say buddy. Funny I can link a proven statement on the origins of the Scarlet Crusade and all you can do say nuh uhhhh...Proof or GFTO is the usual answer. Bolvar was getting his ass handed to him when Drannosh came to his rescue. Sure Drannosh got nailed by the Lich king I already mentioned that the point is all bolvar did is stand their waiting for the big bad orc to do his job for him....That wasnt Broxx's Axe either that was broken... did it look like wood to you?
charrokomen 2 years ago
Bolvar challenged Arthas twice, or did you forget that in the time between Jr. rushing in to Leeroy Arthas? Bolvar never had his ass handed to him either.
The SC's orgins are in...the Horde Player's Guide, I believe.
Brox's axe was given to Varok. Varok gave it to his son (it's mentioned as 'his father's axe')
LordMortanius 2 years ago 2
Pshh Brann and Muradin combined with a bomb strapped on couldnt take Saurfang....Lets look at teh saurfang family..Broxigar the only mortal to ever hurt Sargeras ( the actual sargeras not an avatar)....J.R. had balls enough to charge the lich king while Bolvar sat back trembling....and then Varok who is bad enough to use chuck norris for a mount...BTW use wowwiki and look up garithos and scarlet crusade for anyone who wants proof....actual proof not some ally fan boys rewriting of lore
charrokomen 2 years ago
JR Leeroyed Arthas and got one-shot. That's not an example of bravery, that's an example of stupidity. WoWWiki does not ahve all the information either; it also comes from the various sourcebooks. Bolvar was never trembling either, since he challenged Arthas to face them in person.
Broxigar's power came from his goddamn axe (which got broken by Arthas), and Varok is a tired old orc who got turned into an internet meme.
LordMortanius 2 years ago
Next up....You need to reread your lore. the scarlet crusade is NOT garithos's force....Theyre remnants of the silver hand who're more blood thirsty and zealous than other more moderate paladins. Nice try with the rewritten Alliance twisted history lesson : FAIL
charrokomen 2 years ago
The Scarlet Crusade is more than just the remnants of the Silver Hand (who are currently based in Stormwind). They're also the remnants of Lordaeron's forces that escaped decimation by the Scourge, including the survivors of the attack by Sylvanas.
It's in one of the Player's Guides.
LordMortanius 2 years ago
Muradin?? Defeat Saurfang?? Surely you're smoking crack.
charrokomen 2 years ago
One old, tired orc against a Mountain King.
Get off the Saurfang fanboy bandwagon.
LordMortanius 2 years ago 2
Although Garithos live in the continent of Lordaeron and one of his gag quotes is "In memory of Terenas", he has the Stormwind banner in his shield. As there is no concrete information, it is unknown what his kingdom is.
undead4500 2 years ago
Play WC3 all the campaigns and you will get a very clear idea of most of the lore behind WoW and what changed and what has not.
skullzbh 2 years ago
The part with Jaina made me lol.
Varian: Jaina, why are you crying? o.o
Jaina: It's was nothing, your majesty. I'm proud of my king. T_T
Varian: nyah. >.>
EyesOfDiamonds 2 years ago
forsaken arent only humans the forsakens dark rangers are highelves =)
wowcataclysm2011 2 years ago
i want to see the fight between muradin and Saurfang :)
everyone knew who would win though.
btw Jaina gets a orgasm...
icandodps 2 years ago
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To assume that Thrall should know every nook and cranny of what his allies are doing in the shadows is a very unfair judgement, and you guys should know this. Suppose we found out that Israel was torturing and experimenting on Palestinians. Is that our fault? No, clearly not. Just be happy that he's doing something about it now.
DathanielTDK 2 years ago
Thrall should, since he's the supreme leader of the Horde, and the RAS was right next to Sylvanas' throne room. The RAS was also offering players quests to further the biological weapon they were developing.
If the Alliance knew, why didn't Thrall?
LordMortanius 2 years ago 4
Frankly horde players sicken me to the core, im all serious when I say this. they disgust me. they have no love for thier own species, they act like assholes half the time, they twist the lore to suit thier own needs when it suits them, they say ANYTHNIG at all to protect thier delusion that the horde should rule the whole damn world and that Humanity should either be killed or enslaved.
GovernorDerek 2 years ago
Ok. First of all chill out. Im an Alliance player/suporter all the way but try to understand the Horde a little more. They are like the humans real life were in their pritive cultures. The orcs are humans with green skin. The point is: In a fanasy world like WoW an Orc life has the same value than a Human life.
The thing I am sure is that the Alliance have always had the moral hig ground and therefore their actions are much more undesrtandable in my eyes than the actions of the Horde.