k, if the quran is so scientific and full of prophetic miracles it should be able to predict the next scientific discoveries. all religions have reverse engineered "miracles" yet none can predict. hind site, i guess, is 20/20 in religion too. old tactic
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The Atheists below are so funny. How many times does a single Atheist say 'illogical', 'irrational' and 'nonsense' in his life? It is funny how Atheists always ask for empirical evidence when they hardly ever give it themselves, saying it is Theists who must prove the existence of God. Atheism is the rejection of God so what evidence do you have for no God? It goes both ways. The answer is usually, 'there is not evidence for God so how do we know he exists?'. Ignorance, irrational, and nonsense!
@ContinentalHeretic How is it irrational? There's nothing to prove on the atheist side because its a reactionary position, you stating a positive, must provide proof. Rejecting the requirement makes your position invalid. Respond without being bigoted and arrogant, please.
I see this debating style across the board with Muslims. They can't rationalise their medieval worldview and instead end up eating their words or worse, look stupid and lose all credibility like your Mr. Hamza here.
I don't know why they bother. They cannot equate this outdated nonsense in the modern world, the whole religion is in it's death throes and should be consigned to the bin of dead religions like all the other historical failures.
@noiseache it isnt in its death throes; its thriving, and thats the tragedy. characters like Hamza stand for either a sort of Orwellian revision of scientific knowledge when it doesnt suit them or, even more chillingly, when they make it appear to the average person that their claims are on equal footing with those made by actual scientific inquiry. I truly fear that we're approaching a time where scientific fact will become a matter of opinion and faith for all but the scientists and experts.
Yea. Exactly. Fucking Willy Craig is the worst at this. He's literally the only guy on the planet (so far...) who makes my head spin what with all the babble he spews. It's hard to keep up because you're trying to filter out the millions of words he vomits, let alone to conclude what he's trying to say. I personally think that's his trick. He camouflages his premise in this way, leaving the audience thinking wow he's onto something, let's clap anyway, he's probably right.
I think these these atheists should understand that the question on sharia law and implementing punishment is not a simple topic. It requires a great deal of study and explanation. I think Hamza did a brilliant job answering them. I will watch the rest of this episode and hope that issues such as the existence of God and the miraculous nature of the Quran will be discussed.
They are not even letting Hamza speak! This is totally unfair, 3 Atheists against 1 Muslim. All the Atheists are giving their views but not even letting Hamza Intervene.
"They are not even letting Hamza speak! This is totally unfair, 3 Atheists against 1 Muslim"
They ARE letting him speak. Another thing: the atheists don't advocate the beheading of Hamza from turning from atheist to a Muslim- the same cannot be said of Hamza who advocates the beheading of those who leave Islam :) Also, I've seen many situations where there have been more Muslims v atheists in a debate- same result.
@ghaarehira "They are not even letting Hamza speak! This is totally unfair," Bullshit, not only did they allow him to talk but they also apologised when they cut into his monologues. Where you watching the same video?
i find it funny how he says that they dont discriminate while here in holland homosexuals, jews and old ladies are terrorized on the streets on a daily basis :D
i think without religion....if it was really "survival of the fittest" then really the world should be an evil place
e.g imagine someone needs a kidney, there is no fault on him to murder a match & steal the kidney as its about the "fittest"
if someone says guilt wouldnt allow them then where did guilt even come from? even then so what who cares about guilt anyway? just brush it off its not as if you would ever pay the price for the crime (so long as you dont get caught)
@prototype00000 lucky for us theres an evolutionary advantage for humans to not want to murder each other in cold blood. Empathy is hardwired into human psychology with the part of our brains called mirror neurons. This is why so many soldiers develop PTSD. Empathy can be observed in many other animals besides humans who also display group behavior. Religion did not invent the human emotion of guilt or empathy. Morality has nothing to do with religion as you think it does.
@ThePeaceMissile And W. C. Fields said "I don't drink water; fish fuck in it". Now, here's something useful to do. Provide evidence of the god they speak. Newtons' quote is a fallacy called Argument from Ignorance. The 2nd is vacuous because first need evidence that a god exists to be able to break and of it's silly rules. Your last quote you posted begs the question of how the hell does he know & can he prove that. Even smart people can be ass backwards on some subjects.
For my atheist brothers in humanity who want to understand Islam relation with science: watch?v=FX_4bZI5ax4 and also Google for "zakir naik vs william campbell"
It's official. NO theist can EVER give a straight answer. NONE can EVER admit to having bigoted beliefs. NONE can EVER admit their holy books promote bigoted beliefs.
Why is it so hard to get a simple yes or no answer for a straight-forward question? Why do they have to construct a completely different question and try to answer that instead? I would say I've never seen so much straw-manning in my life, but unfortunately I have.
First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... First and foremost... ...GAHH!!!
Man you guys should do something like this with William Lane Craig. These theists thrive on the standard debate format where they can pile rhetorical nonense upon rhetorical nonsense without interruption. Here you guys destroy their lies before they can develop them.
@Y3DXGL90 Nothing I said even resembles what you describe in you're comments. A "fair public debate" is just that, its not a means of establishing truth, its a format for performance that allows the person most practiced in rhetoric to estalish themselves. These discussions elimate the rhetorical aspect far better. But I wouldn't expect a brain dead theist like yourself to understand complex insights into these matters.
What if you're wrong about the particular god you believe in, and you should have been worshipping a different god all along, and the one thing the correct god hates more than atheists is people worshipping the wrong god?
Then "OOOOOOOHHHHH BOY? LOL. Ever thought of that scenario people LOL"
Also, if you're only doing it because you're might as well, if your god is soooo powerful and clever, he's gonna know.
What you just said is called Pascal's wager. And it doesn't work.
@nick260682 No, your completely wrong. What do u mean by wrong GOD? There is only 1 GOD, and has been since the beginning. We believe in the same 1 GOD as Christians and Jews. The problem is with monotheism. The Christians say they follow 1 GOD, but they have corrupted their teachings, and now follow 3. The Jews too have corrupted their teachings beyond belief, and at 1 time in history, called Ezra a son of GOD, and claim he rose up to heaven without dying. The same can b said for almost all..
I mean by "god", any one of the thousands of gods that anyone has ever believed in ever. So, Hinduism, Sikhism, islam, Christianity, Judaism, ancient Greek Gods, Ancient Roamn gods, Aztec gods, Nordic gods etc etc. And if they were right and you wre wrong then "OOOOOOOHHHHH BOY".
It doesn't matter that you think they're wrong. They think you're wrong too.
I think you're all wrong, and as an atheist get to lead a more fulfilling life, not bound by unnecessary laws.
@nick260682 Most of the religions u mentioned, believe in 1 GOD, which is the same omnipotent GOD, but they don't follow the teachings of GOD like they should. Don't tell me about Greeks and Aztecs, because like I said, that is clear paganism, and no one should b stupid enough to believe GOD is an idol, that u can break, or a Human, that u can kill. Your right about 1 thing though, and that is your only bound by man made laws, which to me is very dangerous. I will go so far to say that atheists
I don't care if it's paganism. You all believe fucking nonsense. You sound like the retarded kid in school who still believes in Santa when he's like 14. "NNNeeeeerrr I'm going to get my presents from Santa"
"NNNeeeeerrr I'm going to heaven on a fucking winged horse"
@nick260682 Whoa, steady on there big boy. Do u really think Muslim countries like Pakistan,Egypt,Indonesia,Turkey, and all the rest of them, r following proper Islamic teachings. They r following secular teachings, so don't u blame their state on religion. What do u mean "not change"? I said that ALLAH's word (Qur'an), will remain unchanged till the end of time. That mean that our foundations, and important teachings will always remain firm, and not go in circles like yours. Islam is not ..
They're the predominately Islamic countries that are in less trouble. They're less hard line (with the possible exception of parts of Pakistan). It's the real hard line countries like Iran, Saudi, Afganistan etc that I have a problem with.
You can't give me any examples of how my " foundations, and important teachings" go in circles.
My point was, there are obviously things in your Koran and especially in the Hadiths that are morally reprehensable. The problem is, as someone who can be objective and with out brainwashing, I can see them. You on the other hand, with your indoctrination complete, cannot.
And the fact it will never change is the worrying thing.
..against progress, far from it my friend. First and foremost LOLL. Read real history, and u will know that when the west was in the dark ages (hence the name), Muslims were progressing in every field, and please do me a favor, and stop calling the early progressing Muslims less Islamic, because then u will b a blatant liar. Islam is all for progress, but not so much so, that every taboo, and every law is broken, that my friend is what I would call backward progress. Have u read the Hadiths?..
Yes you're right about the European darks ages. And you know the way they got out, and became more secular? With the advent of secular thinking.
I don't just pick on Islam, although I'm discussing it with you as you are a Muslim. But as soon as Europe became less Christian, it progressed. Same would happen in the backwards middle eastern states, as they wouldn't have inert docrine holding them back.
..Tell me where does it say to grab every 9 year old girl and marry her, and have sex with her? On the contrary, it quotes from Aisha herself (who was and still remains the biggest female scholar), about her life and times with the Prophet. All the Qur'an say's, is that if someone is at the age of marriage, and their PARENTS don't have a problem with giving them away, then there is no problem. You western Doctors say the age in which a girl can reach puberty is between 7 and 9 at the earliest.
I'm not saying it says that, but if the guy you all love so much is having sex with little girls, it sets a terrible example.
And I don't care what the parents have to say about it. And I think it's disgusting that you do. People have the right to chose who they want to sleep with. Otherwise there's a word for it: rape.
It doesn't matter when a girl reaches puberty, it doesn't at all guarantee she's physically or mentally ready for a 40something year old to take her innocence.
@nick260682 OK, this is defo my last reply LOL. I could go on for days, but there is a time to stop, and so, this is the very last. You atheists say ISLAM degrades Women, and it considers them low, then tell me, how can u explain over half reverts being Women? You see, they look past all the media BS, and realize that in actual fact, Islam is the exact opposite to what they heard, and they realize, that it is in fact this nonreligious lifestyle that degrades them, though they might not know it
..but, soon they realize, that they r objects for the desires of Men, and r being exploited to pursue a career or whatever they do. We don't want Men perving at our Women, and we take care of them, and provide for them, because we have been given the means to do so. That is not to say Women in ISLAM cant work, of course they can, but in protection, and a modest environment. Back to Aisha (PBUH). You say the Prophet took her innocence, I wonder where u came to that conclusion. She became the..
So you tell me you aren't against women, then you say loads of stuff against women. Of course women can be objects of desire. If they weren't the human race would die out pretty quick. And I'm sorry for you to have to hear it, but WOMEN LIKE TO FUCK MEN TOO!! So that destroys that argument. How are women exploited if they pursue a career that THEY WANT TO DO? Moron.
So you're talling me you'd be happy if a 40odd year old man fucked your 9 year old sister/neice/daughter etc?
Well that shows me just how fucked up your cult of Islam has made you. You should be absolutely seriously fucking ashamed of yourself for saying that.
Are you English? If I knew where you lived I'd send the police round your house.
This gur removed the comment, becaue he said that if the reight 40 odd year old man came along, yes, he'd let him fuck his 9 year old sister/neice/daughter etc.
He obviously realised how filthy, depraved and wrong this was so removed the comment. But didn't have the balls to admit he was helping paedophiles.
@nick260682 Do u really want round 2? You were struggling for words, and started to read me definitions of dictionary's LOL. You r wrong about me helping pedophiles my friend. What I said was, if my sister/niece had reached the age of puberty (which means when she could have children) and was acting like a young woman, and the man was pious, then why not. I never mentioned anything about age, and u would b a liar if u accuse me of that. Anyway, go crawl back into your hole, and get lost
I was lost for words? Hahaha! Says the man who was so lost for words, he wrote some immoral, depraved shit about the fact you'd let a 40 year old man fuck your 9 year old relative, and then deleted it, in what I can only assume was a a sudden crisis of morality, where you realised if you did that, you'd be aiding and abetting a paedophile.
I know you never mentioned age, but I DID, and it was the main point of the conversataion, so you didn't have to.
And the reason I was quoting you the dictionary, was because you didn't know what the definition was. Then you challenged the official definition. I was trying to help you understand a wrod, as you needed help. Then you try and laugh at me, because you don't understand English?
And if you set up a 9 year oldm, who I'm sorry, is by anyone's definition a child, then you are helping a paedophile. I'm not saying you have , but you said you would in theory. Sick twisted man.
..you go after lust, instead of a long lasting relationship. You go after love, instead of Family and companionship. These r temporary pleasures, and as we can see, they don't last. Your wrong mate, Women cant be OBJECTS of desire, but they can and will be desired (The Quran says so). Your women r like objects, and r living their lives like a fish in a tank, who is being watched always by staring eyes. Listen mate, don't give me that crap now, we r having an open and honest convo yeah. There..
@nick260682 Listen, don't get your facts twisted mate. pedophiles r what u have in your western countries (and many of them), who torture pre puberty girls, and rape them and kill them. Don't u dare try putting that crap with ISLAM. No parent would give their daughter to a rapist, or to b tortured, and/or maybe killed. If they did, then they would b lunatics. You always seen to confuse Islam with the worst in your western society.
@nick260682 That dictionary definition is ridiculous. Again, it is a man made definition, which can change at any time with the law. Tell me, so according to the dictionary, u cant b attracted to a girl who is 17 years old and one day away from being 18? Would u be a pedophile? In some countries, the legal age is 11/12, so what would your dictionary say to them? Stop talking out your backside mate.
Of course it's a man made definition you idiot. What the fuck else could it be? And it's nothing to do with law. We have a definition of children and a definition of paedophiles. And you defend paedophiles.
I just searched dictionary, cambridge, oxford, google, the free dictionary, wordnet, merriam-webster, yahoo and wordsmyth. They ALL have the same, or almost the same definition. But I suppose you're still right.
@nick260682 Who said I defend pedophiles? Who said I defend the Men who abduct,torture, and rape even their own daughters (Joseph fritzl) hey? It does have something to do with the law Einstein. How, well again, if the law changes, with a change of leader, and he decides Women r minors till the age of 30, then u r a pedophile for even thinking about her sexually. What if he changes the law to minors till 12, then what? You r bound by man made ever changing laws my friend. Why don't u tell me..
You said you would help a 40 year old man have sex with your 9 year old daughter. So you aren't only defending paedophiles, you are even helping them!!
And the definition is simple: "Paedophile: a person who is sexually attracted to children "
Most girls who are 17 or so are fully grown. There is a MASSIVE difference between 9 and 16 or 17, physically and mentally. If you can't see that, then I fear for young girls in your community.
@nick260682 Your full of crap. Don't quote me your BS definition OK. So by this definition, u cant b attracted to a 17 year old girl? They r considered minors in your country, and u will go to jail if u have sex with them. Don'y talk to me about the difference between ages Einstein. Of course I can see the difference, but although a young girl, be it 9 or whatever may have some growing up to do physically and mentally (so do some 25/30 year olds), u leave out the biggest detail, and that is..
It's not MY definition you moron!! That's the point! It's the standard English language definition! Researched from many given sources!
If you don't accept the definition of words, then how can anyone talk ever? No one would ever know what anyone was talking about. There is a standard version of English, and if you don't accept it, how the fuck are we supposed to know what eachother are talking about?
..a girl, be it 9 or older, who has reached puberty, can go through the most painful, the most biggest and most intense thing she will ever have to go through, and that is to give birth to a child, which many 9 year olds throughout history have done. Now, for an atheist, this is a problem, because how can one so young, that u consider so very small to even do anything for herself, give birth, but for Muslims, this is no problem, because the creator knows what he has created.
But I can explain why and how a 9 year old gives birth.
1. She gets raped by a paedophile.
2. The baby emerges 9 months later from the little girl's vagina. This almost invariably leaves the mother with irreparable damage to her body, and mind.
@nick260682 It's frustrating debating someone who believes in 7th century Ideologies , isn't it? I just shake my head at these people. They have no place in western civilization.
But did you read the last few comments? I don't even know what the hell he's trying to say? I tguess because he was losing badly, he started sputing utter babble.
He also admitted in a comment that he subsequently removed that he'd be happy to let a 40 year old man have sex with his 9 year old daughter/sister/neice/whatever, so long as the guy was ok.
Show's you how much Mohammed has fucked up a whole section of people in the world by setting a paedophillic example.
@nick260682 Yeah, go ahead, read my last few comments, u fool. What I was trying to say is simple, You say how could the prophet marry a 9 year old, and say all sorts of crap to help your claim, like she was so young, and what not. My reply is simple, we believe in GOD, and GOD knows his creation, and what they r capable of. GOD made certain girls mature, and reach puberty early, like Aisha, who like I said, became the greatest female scholar, and loved the prophet, Atheists, fall flat..
..on their faces, when they try to argue about this, because they say a girl of 9 can't do anything for herself, and this and that, yet they have to accept that a girl of 9, though she might have some maturing to do, can go through the hardest, and most intense thing in her whole life, and that is giving birth to a child (many have in history), and so, in reality, this specific 9 year old, is a young woman, and not like most people her age. I also argue that it was normal in them days, and..
..history proves this. The byzantine kings married young girls, Mary mother of Jesus was about 11/12 when she gave birth, and also, she was married to Joseph, who was about 60/70. Forget the distant past, lets look at the state of your western countries, only 100 years ago, where the age of consent was between as young as 9/12 in most countries (Don't believe me, check it yourself). Another point I could argue, is that their was no childhood in the ancient days, and only recently (150 years)..
Just because little girls are able to get pregnant, doesn't mean they SHOULD!! That old "if there's grass on the wicket, we can play cricket" thing, isn't to be taken literally. Unless you're a paedophile.
I understand things were different then. But people also kept slaves then. Do you think that's ok too? No, obviously not. And I'll tell you why. Because we move on, and away from the disgusting morals in the Bible or Koran, or whatever. And you need to too.
@nick260682 GRASS ON THE WICKET! Listen mate, u need to stop comparing two completely opposite things. I mean, r u comparing a Human being with a square of mud? Listen, we believe in God right, and we believe if GOD makes a girl reach puberty at a young age, then that''s what she is, A YOUNG WOMAN who can give birth. Tell me, if giving birth does not define what we should call a young woman, then what should?
What that saying means, is that if a girl has pubic hair, it is ok to have sex with them. I disagree with that statement, you don't. So don't get all moralistic with me. You fucking scum paedophile apologist.
If a girl has a baby at 9, she almost invariably does damage to her body, because although she is physically capable of conceiving, her body is not yet ready to take that kind of stress.
@nick260682 Mr Nick, the beauty of this very attack (9 years), is that we feel whatever our Prophet did was pure and correct, but others accuse him of rape,torture,murder, and what not, but everything our prophet did has been proved, or if not, soon will be to b right. 9 year old girls have given birth, so that means they must have reached puberty at 7 or 8, so just like that, My beloved prophet has been proven to b correct. By the way, I'm sure I mentioned Aisha loved him very much.
And that's why your morals are so skewed, because you can't see the man for what he was. A paedophile. If anything, it has been proved NOT to be right. No normal person thinks it's ok to have sex with little girls these days.
Don't dare talk to me about morals, when u don't even know your own. The reason I say it is proven right, is because if girls did not give birth at 9, then we Muslims would have no answer to your attacks, but since they do, then we can say he married a young woman, who had reached puberty, and also that it was normal back then. If u were born 50 years ago, then your morals would have told u that Gays r wrong, but since your born in this age, then your morals tell u that they r right. This could
What do you mean I don't know my own morals? You have no idea what my morals are. The only thing you know about my morals, is that I don't think it's ok to have sex with children. I would have thought that a good start. But you disagree with me. You think it's ok to have sex with children, and it makes me feel sick.
I wouldn't have minded gays whenever it was. As long as they aren't hurting anyone else, and more importantly, are NOT CHILDREN then they can do what they like
@nick260682 Now your really bullshitting LOL. You would most likely not have stood gays, if u lived 100 years ago, just like most of the world did not stand them.
So do you accept that actually you have no idea what my morals are and therefore that you are in no position to tell me mine are "dodgy"?
I imagine if you are admitting to being a paedophile, like you have done to me, most people would be rude, hostile and abusive to you. It's the having sex with kids thing people don't like. Maybe you should stop saying it's ok to have sex with children, and people wouldn't be rude to you.
@nick260682 I never said it was OK to have sex with kids, u ignorant fool, who is also a blatant liar. Read my comments, and u will see me say time and again "YOUNG WOMEN", who have reached puberty and can conceive. I can find no better way of determining when a girl becomes a young women. When do u think a girl becomes a woman? Is it when her father rapes her, like so many western fathers r doing? Sorry for being rude, but u atheists r full of crap
You have said it time and time again that you think it's ok to have sex with kids. For some reason you have re-defined what children are. But any normal person considers a 9 year old to be a child. And you think it's ok to have sex with them.
So I'm not lying.
Why do you say "western fathers" like that has something to do with me? In the west we think it's wrong for fathers to rape their daughters. Muslim men do it too. In the west we don't think it's ok to fuck children.
@nick260682 I mean u cant define exactly what your morals r, because they r ever changing, apart from the obvious things, like right and wrong. But like I said, you rview of whats right and wrong will, and has changed with time, and with the law of the land.
Yes you're right my morals can change but this is WITHOUT QUESTIONn a good thing. It means when I get new information, I can change my mind.
And the reason it has changed over time, is because we have constantly had new information. Or we have constantly worked out better ways of conducting ourselves. You can't please all the people all the time, but I think most people would agree that the western world's morals are better now than 50, 100, 200, 300 years ago.
@nick260682 I don't think morals should b a thing that changes whenever the mood is right, and whenever your desires demand it. Think of the damage that can do, if u have morals that always change and change and change. You say any normal person, but what about the people in south america, and parts of Europe, like Romania, who get married and have kids as young as 9? Just because your incest infected society thinks it wrong, does not mean it is, and if u get off your backside, and do some..
It's not to do with desires or moods. I never said that so stop lying. But the human race learns new things about how to prevent suffering and promote happiness. And we can change our morals to suit this knowledge.
I condem them the same way I condem anyone who has sex with children. It's all wrong.
Incest infected? Do you want to give me any facts on how London is "incest infected"? I thought it was Muslims who married their cousins. Preferably if they are children.
@nick260682 OK, now u r really going crazy LOL. Are u comparing cousin marriage to incest between siblings? You sound desperate mate. Who r u to condemn what others do in their own country, and their own culture and traditions? Just like u think your right, so do they, and just like u don't want to b condemned for what many outsiders would call immoral acts in your society, don't condemn others.
It's not the same, but can still result in unhealthy babies.
I can condem whoever I like. Especially paedophiles.
And I condem people in my society just as much if they are paedophiles. I'm not picking on you because you are muslim, but because you think fucking kids is ok.
I sound desperate? Really? At least I don't sound desperate to have sex with children you sick fuck.
@nick260682 I can also condemn the swingers, who swap wives and husbands with each other, I can also condemn the gang banging orgies, where 1 women is getting pounded by 3/4 men at once. I thought I cleared the kids crap. I never ever said kids, so why r u lying? I said girl who has reached puberty and can conceive. You might say, well that's a kid, but then I also show u examples from Europe, and south america, who think they r young women, but u condemn them LOL. GET LOST U FOOL. PEACE
This has nothing to do with me though. Why do you keep bringing up all these things. They are all between consenting ADULTS. I wouldn't do it personally, but if people want to do it and no one is harmed, then good luck to them.
You didn't say the word kid, but you did say 9 year old girls. And 9 year old girls ARE CHILDREN. It doesn't matter what stage of their development they are at. THEY ARE CHILDREN. Get that through your depraved skull.
..u cant marry, or do anything with them. I would not to go against society, but that does not mean I agree with it. In my personal opinion, girls who can conceive, in reality r young women, and the ability to givie birth is the biggest reason why they r, but nowadays, u guys got it all twisted, and forget 9, u even consider much older women (17?) to still b girls, and u will b thrown in jail if u have sex with them. I did not say 9 year old girls, but I did say girls who have the capability..
Girls who are 9 are too young to have sex. Forget the fact that they may be physically mature, I have never met a 9 year old who is ready to have sex mentally or look after a baby.
But you don't give a fuck.
So basically what you've admitted to me is that you think being a paedophile is ok, and so is rape.
..to look after them, so quit with that strawman. I have given u proof (ability to conceive), and have given u historical, and recent examples, but u ignore everything. Listen mate, since u r so morally correct, why not go around the western world, and clean up all the immorality's in that society. It would take u all your life, and u still wont b finished, far from it, but at least u will stop bugging me (joking lol). Seriously, u need to clean your own backyard mate, and then look at others
..to give birth. 9 year olds who can conceive r children by your western standards, but if u go around the world, people view them differently, and in some countries the age of consent is as low as 12. Who r you to condemn them, when your own society is the most immoral? you should clean your own backyard, before condemning to others. PEACE
What don't you get about the fact that, just because a girl is physically able to concieve, doesn't mean she should AT ALL.
You got all stroppy when I mentioned the mildly offensive "grass on the wicket" thing, but that is basically what you believe. You have no care for the little girl whatsoever. As long as she matures early, you think it's ok to try and fuck her. You couldn't give a shit about what she wants.
But then this is symptomatic of Islam's innate misogyny.
@nick260682 Your full of crap mate. Who says we have no care for the young woman? Obviously it will b the parents decision to give her to someone. and what makes u think they will give her to someone who's bad? Like I said before, where in the Muslim world do u c young girls getting married off to older men? Where in the Muslim world do u c millions of young women having babies? It is very rare for our society, but that does not mean its wrong. If the parents feel their daughter is mature..
If you're letting paedophiles have sex with them I'M SAYING you have no care for little girls.
" Obviously it will b the parents decision" OBVIOUSLY it won't!! It should be the girl's decision!! It's her fucking life!! Not her parent's life! Why do you think it's right for parents to be dictators over their children's entire life!!
Well like I said, it is very rare in our society, but again, if the parents feel their daughter is mature, then they can. Again, like I said, the parents wont give her to some lunatic, and if they did, they would b crazy. Listen, in ISLAM, we like to give parents a little more rights than in your atheist society.
@FULF1Z Parents have the right to raise their children BUT not own them. Its a parents duty to raise a child, but not force them to marry, or to follow a career path, or tell them what religion they have to follow. If islam allows a parent to own a child then islam is immoral as a FACT. Humans don't like suffering FACT. So your whole "athiesm has man made laws" is incorrect. It is islam that is man made, along with all other religions.
@MrKingatheist Hello mate, and thank u for not being abusive like many other atheists I come across. All I want, is someone to have a nice convo with, without them using the most filthiest language imaginable. You say we have taken Women's freedom and basically that we control them, well can u plz explain to me why Women r converting in larger numbers than men? I would call this a minor miracle of my religion, which is that even though there is huge propaganda against how Islam treats Women..
@FULF1Z Ok well as islam is a massive religion which consists of 1.2 billion, i suspect that certain branches of islam give women equal rights. I personally have many muslim friends, many who are women. Some are even secular, i.e. they believe we all should believe what we want AS LONG as you don't force your views on others. Now my concern is with the extreme branches in all religion, so its not an islamic thing, but anyone who claims women cant choose a partner, i have to defend against.
yet they r converting many more than men. I didn't mean who r u, as in your history, but to tell nick, that his society has major flaws, and so, he should clear that up bfore judging N bashing other cultures and society's. I never said Islam allows parents to own a child, but if Parents cant own their own children, then who can? I am a proud slave of my Parents I said Islam gives the Parents huge rights, and we respect them rights. Atheism does have man made laws, and they openly admit this.
@MrKingatheist We like to think of ourselves as a society that allows Parents to make decisions for us, because Parents r your true watchers, and guardians, and only want the best for u. They know u better than u know yourself, and can c clearer than u (most times). Nobody said anything about raping girls. Islam has the most sever punishment for rape. Islam also gives the woman choice of marriage, and rejection. Islam strictly forbids forced marriage, which is different to arranged marriage..
@FULF1Z You don't care for young women because they are objects that YOU own. They do as you say. They marry who YOU say. You have taken away their freedom. You want power over others, to dominate their will, and this is why islam is so addictive.
@ISMASHYOUBRO I was repyling to FULF1Z, so if your correct the error then is from FULF1Z as he claimed parents choose who their daughters marry. If women are given an equal choice in marriage, like men, there is no problem.
@MrKingatheist Well parents play an important role for both genders in helping to decide a suitable match. In Islamic teaching it is one of the rights of the parents for their children(in finding good matches for their children) The final decision is up to the male or female.
@ISMASHYOUBRO If a male of female wants to search for a partner alone, without interference from third partys (family or not) then they should have that right. I can see that the rights of the parents in finding matches for their children could clash with their childrens right and could become a liability. If they want their parents to help them find a partner its fine. If the parents rights clash with the childs rights, the childs right take preference as its their life, not the parents.
That's really dependent on whom the child wants to marry and whom the parent WANT the child to marry. For instance, I'm pretty sure most parents wouldn't allow their daughters to marry anyone shady. It's all about thinking long term as well. The criterion for finding a suitable match is that the person should be pious above all other things. Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. Generally speaking if the child and parents interests clash, then it cannot always be in the childs favour. Cont'd.
Basically in Islam, there are limits to both parties. If the child has found a suitable match whom he/she is willing to marry and that person is a Muslim(whether you like this or not, it's generally prohibited for Muslims to marry Non-Muslims) then the parent technically has no right to intervene. If the child is marrying a non-Muslim, the parent can interject if I recall. Sometimes the child doesn't always know what's best, and naturally the parent wants to find someone who they feel is best.
@ISMASHYOUBRO Well you are correct, i feel the religion of the male or female is irrelevant. What matters is if both people are compatible for each other. As you said beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in which case its the childs. A parent cannot know 100% who will make their child happy. The male/female must find the right person. Both parent and child are capable of making mistakes, still in the end its the childs life, not the parents, they do not have the right to violate their freedom.
@ISMASHYOUBRO You are correct, i feel the religion of the male or female is irrelevant. What matters is if both people are compatible for each other. As you said beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in which case its the childs. So its the childs right to search and choose for themselves. I agree some people are foolish and make bad choices, however the same rule applys to the parent, they can make bad choices! In the end its the childs life, they must make their own choice for the long run.
@MrKingatheist Right I never said the parents DON'T make bad choices. I'm just saying that both must look for the best in the long term. I'm basically outlining the Islamic perspective of marriages. Let's look at a lot of 'love' marriages today. The divorce rate is above 50% in North America. Marriages are considered sacred matrimonial contracts in Islam(and Christianity) which is why the doctrine ensures that the marriages are lasting(not to say divorce can never happen but it's more efficient)
@ISMASHYOUBRO America is a christain country, and i agree its social structure is weak. In america athesits have lower divorse rates(21%) than Christains(24%). Now im not saying religion is inferior, but i feel its not a necessity, i think discipline and education (from any religous/non religous view) is required to rectify social problems. One other thing, some marriages may last long, but may not be happy. I think the quality of marriage is another element to look into on this topic.
@MrKingatheist Of course. By Islamic law, if there is unhappiness in a marriage, then divorce may be sought. I understand you don't feel religion is necessary. I differ but I don't want to get into that monster of a discussion. Peace.
@MrKing Atheist 21% divorced and 24% christians,thats intresting information well BTW not much difrence ,,but in muslims you will hardly find upto 10% ,,,
@amirzubairmughal Send me the source of your information. Your Hamza idol has weak arguments which only fanboy muslims (guys who don't read philosophy and only hear what they want to hear) agree with.
Basically in Islam, there are limits to both parties. If the child has found a suitable match whom he/she is willing to marry and that person is a Muslim(whether you like this or not, it's generally prohibited for Muslims to marry Non-Muslims) then the parent technically has no right to intervene. If the child is marrying a non-Muslim, the parent can interject if I recall. Sometimes the child doesn't always know what's best, and naturally the parent wants to find someone who they feel is best.
..enough, then they can choose to give her to someone who will look after her, and like I said, they will choose the best man. Who r u to condemn other cultures, and society's when yours is, according to many, the most immoral, and evil in the World, where u can do anything under the banner of consenting Adults. You have never met a young women who wanted to have a baby? Well I can tell u o millions of older Women around the world who didn't want to have babies, and were not prepared...
Choose the best man? When it's well documented that thousands of muslim women are unhappy in relationships forced upon them by their parents, and (here's the important bit) CANNOT LEAVE. And this is well documented.
The difference between consenting adults and unconsenting children, I would have thought was obvious. It's embarrassing to have to explain. Consenting adults don't hurt anyone else. Unconsenting children GET HURT.
@nick260682 Listen, why don't u turn off your computer for once, and do some travelling in Muslim lands, and lets see how many oppressed women u find. I could also play that card, and say that your society is full of child molesters (younger than 9), and r a bunch of wife beaters, but I'm cleverer than that, and don't believe what the media tells me, and I don't paint everyone with the same brush. Tell me, what good has your consenting marriages got u, apart from millions of divorces.
@FULF1Z Who are we? we are human. We are scientists, curers of disease, enhancers of technology and reducers of suffering. Humans don't like suffering, it is more complex but science studies who humans are biologically. If a culture is unhealthly, causes suffering and destorys lives WE WILL CONDEMN. Yes your correct, the west is guility but atheism is against christianity, which fuels wars with islam from the west. Many atheists oppose capitalism. We offer a true future for the speices.
@FULF1Z Yep, its not a muslim thing its a human thing. I think religion has it wrong on what caused the universe, however i believe people have a right to believe and i think its good to hear other peoples ideas. On ethics however i am unbiased in my judgement of humans who inflict suffering. I feel my people are the WHOLE speices. If a fellow human is immoral i have to defend against his/her actions, regardless of if they are using religious excuse, or non religous excuses (corrupt politics)
@MrKingatheist Well I don't know about other religions, but I'm pretty sure the Quran says it was a bang that caused the universe, but where we disagree on, is that if a bang happened on its own, or was there a creator to make it happen? We happen to believe in the latter, and u the former. We need to talk amongst ourselves (Muslims and atheists), to help each other learn more, and to find the real truth.
@FULF1Z You have a superficial understanding of the big bang. It is not an explosion, its an expansion. As much as I would like to discuss these matters with other scientists (muslim or otherwise), religion has nothing to offer in the search for truth. Religion is byproduct of cultural evolution and there is NO evidence for the truth of ANY religion and PILES of evidence against religion.
@Savage911a How can u claim that? Have u studied all the major religions? If u look back at history, you will find that it was Muslim scientists who got the world out of the dark ages, and invented thousands upon thousands of inventions, and made many scientific breakthroughs. You r being quite harsh when u criticize religion, and say that it can't offer anything. Qur'an commands us to learn, and calls for us to be knowledgeable. Nothing about ISLAM stops people from science, but people alone
@FULF1Z Although arabic (not necessarily Muslim) scientists have done their share in developing science, so have many other people from other religions and non religions. These have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with insight of the people. If a religion contributes something, then it must be something revealed by the religion itself (maybe through the quran or bible) that furthers our understanding of the world.
@Savage911a There r many things revealed in the Qur'an. I admit, that some of them r vague, but that is the test. If the Qur'an had every scientific discovery, then everyone would b Muslim, and there would b no need to test Humans. The Qur'an promotes learning, and gaining knowledge.
@FULF1Z You're God is testing people by giving them incorrect and vague claims in one religion which is among 10,000 other religions, and then rewarding the people who blindly accept these claims and punishing those who don't, despite the fact that the vast majority of muslims are muslims as an accident of birth, just like all other religions?
It is written on my page. "I'm a Muslim not because i was born in a Muslim country, but because islam is the only religion that makes sense to me, it explains the world and the next life clearly and effectively and it answers all my questions about creation". Now this is what I believe, and until I find something better, I'm sticking with it. I don't believe for one second that we came from apes, and in the evolution theory. That to me is illogical. Can u plz explain to me what emotions are?
@FULF1Z It doesn't matter if you in particular converted, the VAST MAJORITY of religious peoples simply follow the religion of their parents and your response didn't adress how God is FAIR in judging people on that. Evolution is a fact, and you might as well deny gravity while your at it. Emotions are chemical reactions taking please in areas of our brain including the limbic system and the amygdala, they motivate our behaviour.
@Savage911a Chemical reactions hey. That is a really nice answer, but I think I will stay with Islam. GOD is fair, and Islam say's, that the message of GOD will reach everybody, and those who don't get to know about it, they r not to b accounted for their sins. Gravity is a man made word for the creation of GOD, and has been attributed to nature and the universe, just like every other living thing.
@FULF1Z So you asked me a question, I gave you the scientific answer, and you reject it because your "God is fair", which is a TOTALLY IRRELEVANT point. Its like saying "hey I know you're saying 1 + 1 = 2, but that chair over there is made of wood so I'll believe that 1 + 1 = 3."
@FULF1Z Scientific development has nothing to do with religion or divine revelations. When was the last time we ever able to explain a scientific phenomena or invented something based on godly revelation...... that's right, never. By the way the Arabic scholars and philosopher owe a lot to the Greek, and if we are going to apply your logic then the Muslims of the golden era owe it to the pagans and the paganistic virtues.
This has been flagged as spam show
k, if the quran is so scientific and full of prophetic miracles it should be able to predict the next scientific discoveries. all religions have reverse engineered "miracles" yet none can predict. hind site, i guess, is 20/20 in religion too. old tactic
xamot27 3 weeks ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The Atheists below are so funny. How many times does a single Atheist say 'illogical', 'irrational' and 'nonsense' in his life? It is funny how Atheists always ask for empirical evidence when they hardly ever give it themselves, saying it is Theists who must prove the existence of God. Atheism is the rejection of God so what evidence do you have for no God? It goes both ways. The answer is usually, 'there is not evidence for God so how do we know he exists?'. Ignorance, irrational, and nonsense!
ContinentalHeretic 2 months ago
@ContinentalHeretic How is it irrational? There's nothing to prove on the atheist side because its a reactionary position, you stating a positive, must provide proof. Rejecting the requirement makes your position invalid. Respond without being bigoted and arrogant, please.
Bleumange 2 months ago 2
It is useless to let a fool finish his argument, because it is obvious he has no argument but just baseless assertions.
MunkyDrag0n 2 months ago
I see this debating style across the board with Muslims. They can't rationalise their medieval worldview and instead end up eating their words or worse, look stupid and lose all credibility like your Mr. Hamza here.
I don't know why they bother. They cannot equate this outdated nonsense in the modern world, the whole religion is in it's death throes and should be consigned to the bin of dead religions like all the other historical failures.
noiseache 3 months ago
@noiseache it isnt in its death throes; its thriving, and thats the tragedy. characters like Hamza stand for either a sort of Orwellian revision of scientific knowledge when it doesnt suit them or, even more chillingly, when they make it appear to the average person that their claims are on equal footing with those made by actual scientific inquiry. I truly fear that we're approaching a time where scientific fact will become a matter of opinion and faith for all but the scientists and experts.
drundsmas 3 days ago
@Niemtol
Yes, exactly. I hate when they do that.
-(yes, we SEE you, theists-
We can see what you're up to, hehe).
Domzdream 3 months ago
@Niemtol
Yea. Exactly. Fucking Willy Craig is the worst at this. He's literally the only guy on the planet (so far...) who makes my head spin what with all the babble he spews. It's hard to keep up because you're trying to filter out the millions of words he vomits, let alone to conclude what he's trying to say. I personally think that's his trick. He camouflages his premise in this way, leaving the audience thinking wow he's onto something, let's clap anyway, he's probably right.
facepalm!
Domzdream 3 months ago
man. Why do muzzies take so long to give a 'yes' answer? Is it genetically challenging?
Domzdream 3 months ago
I think these these atheists should understand that the question on sharia law and implementing punishment is not a simple topic. It requires a great deal of study and explanation. I think Hamza did a brilliant job answering them. I will watch the rest of this episode and hope that issues such as the existence of God and the miraculous nature of the Quran will be discussed.
LearnQuranicArabic 3 months ago
it's a sin to be gay in public, but we cannot hate them or discriminate against them.... does anyone else see how that line is flimsy?
2010paultron 3 months ago in playlist The Magic Sandwich Show
They are not even letting Hamza speak! This is totally unfair, 3 Atheists against 1 Muslim. All the Atheists are giving their views but not even letting Hamza Intervene.
ghaarehira 3 months ago
@ghaarehira Pfft, they are letting him speak. He just keeps failing to answer the questions.
Hooya2 3 months ago
@ghaarehira
"They are not even letting Hamza speak! This is totally unfair, 3 Atheists against 1 Muslim"
They ARE letting him speak. Another thing: the atheists don't advocate the beheading of Hamza from turning from atheist to a Muslim- the same cannot be said of Hamza who advocates the beheading of those who leave Islam :) Also, I've seen many situations where there have been more Muslims v atheists in a debate- same result.
"Atheists are giving their views"
OMG! KILL THEM!
TurboDally 3 months ago
@ghaarehira "They are not even letting Hamza speak! This is totally unfair," Bullshit, not only did they allow him to talk but they also apologised when they cut into his monologues. Where you watching the same video?
noiseache 3 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
well, i hated thunderf00t and hamza in this debate, simply because
thunderf00t is full of hate
and Hamza is full of lies
fsdfsfize 3 months ago
Comment removed
fsdfsfize 3 months ago
@dingdongdannny to me not anymore =)
fsdfsfize 3 months ago
the biggest problem with islam is the barbaric hadith.. islam would be much better without them
DarkprinX2500 3 months ago
LOL at 15:45
"if i asked if you are an abortionist, would that give me an idea of your values?"
"yes"
Mikeybetts 4 months ago
@Mikeybetts LMAO
fsdfsfize 3 months ago
Love the way AronRa starts brushing his hair while Hamza avoids answering the question about death to homosexuals.
socksumi 4 months ago
@socksumi he should've whip his hair back and forth after the debate
fsdfsfize 3 months ago
Is that Weird Al on the bottom right? o.O Anyway, looking forward to watching all of these parts.
HaligonianType1 5 months ago
Barak allahu feek hamza :)
NiyyatAlinsan 5 months ago
i find it funny how he says that they dont discriminate while here in holland homosexuals, jews and old ladies are terrorized on the streets on a daily basis :D
tacob0 5 months ago
i think without religion....if it was really "survival of the fittest" then really the world should be an evil place
e.g imagine someone needs a kidney, there is no fault on him to murder a match & steal the kidney as its about the "fittest"
if someone says guilt wouldnt allow them then where did guilt even come from? even then so what who cares about guilt anyway? just brush it off its not as if you would ever pay the price for the crime (so long as you dont get caught)
prototype00000 5 months ago
@prototype00000 lucky for us theres an evolutionary advantage for humans to not want to murder each other in cold blood. Empathy is hardwired into human psychology with the part of our brains called mirror neurons. This is why so many soldiers develop PTSD. Empathy can be observed in many other animals besides humans who also display group behavior. Religion did not invent the human emotion of guilt or empathy. Morality has nothing to do with religion as you think it does.
Farf420 5 months ago
@ThePeaceMissile
Isaac Newton also believed metal had magic powers. Why you're so susceptible to plea's to authority is beyond me.
NefariousVirtuoso88 6 months ago
@ThePeaceMissile And W. C. Fields said "I don't drink water; fish fuck in it". Now, here's something useful to do. Provide evidence of the god they speak. Newtons' quote is a fallacy called Argument from Ignorance. The 2nd is vacuous because first need evidence that a god exists to be able to break and of it's silly rules. Your last quote you posted begs the question of how the hell does he know & can he prove that. Even smart people can be ass backwards on some subjects.
mistereveready 6 months ago
@ThePeaceMissile ok? you can quote people great job.
RickonDraw 6 months ago
And Do Good People Go To Hell: watch?v=RFWyskhdNrU
FactFinder85 6 months ago
For my atheist brothers in humanity who want to understand Islam relation with science: watch?v=FX_4bZI5ax4 and also Google for "zakir naik vs william campbell"
FactFinder85 6 months ago
hamsa such nice argument masha allaah
MrBuubaaye 6 months ago
Is this a wise move for hamza isn't it like three against one
supercck 6 months ago
14:26
Muslim-apologist-boy, "Okay, very good question."
Islam-apologist-boy has already expended 3 words too many. "Yes" or "no" would have been sufficient. I know what's coming. A NON-ANSWER.
Thanks for the upload anyway. I'm out of here.
HellRehab 6 months ago
So far interesting to watch, I don't hate atheists by the way. I'm EXTREMELY happy that they are rational- well some of them :]
muslim2theend 6 months ago
It's official. NO theist can EVER give a straight answer. NONE can EVER admit to having bigoted beliefs. NONE can EVER admit their holy books promote bigoted beliefs.
MunkyDrag0n 7 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n Except for Fred Phelps and the WBC in Kansas. They are bigoted against everything and everyone that is not themselves.
ArchAngelGuziel00 6 months ago
@ArchAngelGuziel00 Fair enough.
MunkyDrag0n 6 months ago
Just let Matt Dilahunty be in a one on one conversation with Hamza and this will all be sorted out.
FaisalLasiaf1 7 months ago
oh christ this guy. so fucking annoying.
wubbadubdub 7 months ago
Religious are unevolved atheists
evo2029 7 months ago
The last question regarding homosexuals was a rude one but Hamza answered it well
rosepetalaysha 7 months ago
Why is it so hard to get a simple yes or no answer for a straight-forward question? Why do they have to construct a completely different question and try to answer that instead? I would say I've never seen so much straw-manning in my life, but unfortunately I have.
ReddmanDGZ 7 months ago
I'm still laughing at the comment 'acceptance of reality'. I may never get over this...
ReddmanDGZ 7 months ago
Keovar 7 months ago
If discriminant is fundamentally forbidden
/raptor Muhammad
do we need more fundamentalist Muslims?
JeayBee 7 months ago
Comment removed
JeayBee 7 months ago
It sounds like this guy is just making shit up as he goes.
bjohnson55555 8 months ago
Man you guys should do something like this with William Lane Craig. These theists thrive on the standard debate format where they can pile rhetorical nonense upon rhetorical nonsense without interruption. Here you guys destroy their lies before they can develop them.
Savage911a 8 months ago
@Savage911a Yes you are right, you need an unfair debating format in order to win. Since u dont have anwsers u fail in a fair public debate.
Y3DXGL90 7 months ago
@Y3DXGL90 Nothing I said even resembles what you describe in you're comments. A "fair public debate" is just that, its not a means of establishing truth, its a format for performance that allows the person most practiced in rhetoric to estalish themselves. These discussions elimate the rhetorical aspect far better. But I wouldn't expect a brain dead theist like yourself to understand complex insights into these matters.
Savage911a 7 months ago
@Savage911a Ok Good, u won, Take care.
Y3DXGL90 7 months ago
Comment removed
FULF1Z 8 months ago
@FULF1Z
What if you're wrong about the particular god you believe in, and you should have been worshipping a different god all along, and the one thing the correct god hates more than atheists is people worshipping the wrong god?
Then "OOOOOOOHHHHH BOY? LOL. Ever thought of that scenario people LOL"
Also, if you're only doing it because you're might as well, if your god is soooo powerful and clever, he's gonna know.
What you just said is called Pascal's wager. And it doesn't work.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 No, your completely wrong. What do u mean by wrong GOD? There is only 1 GOD, and has been since the beginning. We believe in the same 1 GOD as Christians and Jews. The problem is with monotheism. The Christians say they follow 1 GOD, but they have corrupted their teachings, and now follow 3. The Jews too have corrupted their teachings beyond belief, and at 1 time in history, called Ezra a son of GOD, and claim he rose up to heaven without dying. The same can b said for almost all..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
I mean by "god", any one of the thousands of gods that anyone has ever believed in ever. So, Hinduism, Sikhism, islam, Christianity, Judaism, ancient Greek Gods, Ancient Roamn gods, Aztec gods, Nordic gods etc etc. And if they were right and you wre wrong then "OOOOOOOHHHHH BOY".
It doesn't matter that you think they're wrong. They think you're wrong too.
I think you're all wrong, and as an atheist get to lead a more fulfilling life, not bound by unnecessary laws.
nick260682 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
If you say " There is only 1 GOD", as a fact, it defeats the whole Pascals wager thing you propositioned in the first place.
And who cares if you think your imaginary friend is the correct god. Other religions think their imginary friend is the correct god.
How is my ego blinding me? I don't claim any "truth", so surely that makes me more humble?
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Most of the religions u mentioned, believe in 1 GOD, which is the same omnipotent GOD, but they don't follow the teachings of GOD like they should. Don't tell me about Greeks and Aztecs, because like I said, that is clear paganism, and no one should b stupid enough to believe GOD is an idol, that u can break, or a Human, that u can kill. Your right about 1 thing though, and that is your only bound by man made laws, which to me is very dangerous. I will go so far to say that atheists
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
I don't care if it's paganism. You all believe fucking nonsense. You sound like the retarded kid in school who still believes in Santa when he's like 14. "NNNeeeeerrr I'm going to get my presents from Santa"
"NNNeeeeerrr I'm going to heaven on a fucking winged horse"
See.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Whoa, steady on there big boy. Do u really think Muslim countries like Pakistan,Egypt,Indonesia,Turkey, and all the rest of them, r following proper Islamic teachings. They r following secular teachings, so don't u blame their state on religion. What do u mean "not change"? I said that ALLAH's word (Qur'an), will remain unchanged till the end of time. That mean that our foundations, and important teachings will always remain firm, and not go in circles like yours. Islam is not ..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
They're the predominately Islamic countries that are in less trouble. They're less hard line (with the possible exception of parts of Pakistan). It's the real hard line countries like Iran, Saudi, Afganistan etc that I have a problem with.
nick260682 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
You can't give me any examples of how my " foundations, and important teachings" go in circles.
My point was, there are obviously things in your Koran and especially in the Hadiths that are morally reprehensable. The problem is, as someone who can be objective and with out brainwashing, I can see them. You on the other hand, with your indoctrination complete, cannot.
And the fact it will never change is the worrying thing.
nick260682 7 months ago
..against progress, far from it my friend. First and foremost LOLL. Read real history, and u will know that when the west was in the dark ages (hence the name), Muslims were progressing in every field, and please do me a favor, and stop calling the early progressing Muslims less Islamic, because then u will b a blatant liar. Islam is all for progress, but not so much so, that every taboo, and every law is broken, that my friend is what I would call backward progress. Have u read the Hadiths?..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Yes you're right about the European darks ages. And you know the way they got out, and became more secular? With the advent of secular thinking.
I don't just pick on Islam, although I'm discussing it with you as you are a Muslim. But as soon as Europe became less Christian, it progressed. Same would happen in the backwards middle eastern states, as they wouldn't have inert docrine holding them back.
nick260682 7 months ago
..Tell me where does it say to grab every 9 year old girl and marry her, and have sex with her? On the contrary, it quotes from Aisha herself (who was and still remains the biggest female scholar), about her life and times with the Prophet. All the Qur'an say's, is that if someone is at the age of marriage, and their PARENTS don't have a problem with giving them away, then there is no problem. You western Doctors say the age in which a girl can reach puberty is between 7 and 9 at the earliest.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
I'm not saying it says that, but if the guy you all love so much is having sex with little girls, it sets a terrible example.
And I don't care what the parents have to say about it. And I think it's disgusting that you do. People have the right to chose who they want to sleep with. Otherwise there's a word for it: rape.
It doesn't matter when a girl reaches puberty, it doesn't at all guarantee she's physically or mentally ready for a 40something year old to take her innocence.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 OK, this is defo my last reply LOL. I could go on for days, but there is a time to stop, and so, this is the very last. You atheists say ISLAM degrades Women, and it considers them low, then tell me, how can u explain over half reverts being Women? You see, they look past all the media BS, and realize that in actual fact, Islam is the exact opposite to what they heard, and they realize, that it is in fact this nonreligious lifestyle that degrades them, though they might not know it
FULF1Z 7 months ago
..but, soon they realize, that they r objects for the desires of Men, and r being exploited to pursue a career or whatever they do. We don't want Men perving at our Women, and we take care of them, and provide for them, because we have been given the means to do so. That is not to say Women in ISLAM cant work, of course they can, but in protection, and a modest environment. Back to Aisha (PBUH). You say the Prophet took her innocence, I wonder where u came to that conclusion. She became the..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
So you tell me you aren't against women, then you say loads of stuff against women. Of course women can be objects of desire. If they weren't the human race would die out pretty quick. And I'm sorry for you to have to hear it, but WOMEN LIKE TO FUCK MEN TOO!! So that destroys that argument. How are women exploited if they pursue a career that THEY WANT TO DO? Moron.
So you're talling me you'd be happy if a 40odd year old man fucked your 9 year old sister/neice/daughter etc?
nick260682 7 months ago
Comment removed
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Well that shows me just how fucked up your cult of Islam has made you. You should be absolutely seriously fucking ashamed of yourself for saying that.
Are you English? If I knew where you lived I'd send the police round your house.
Paedophile apologist scum.
nick260682 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
This gur removed the comment, becaue he said that if the reight 40 odd year old man came along, yes, he'd let him fuck his 9 year old sister/neice/daughter etc.
He obviously realised how filthy, depraved and wrong this was so removed the comment. But didn't have the balls to admit he was helping paedophiles.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Do u really want round 2? You were struggling for words, and started to read me definitions of dictionary's LOL. You r wrong about me helping pedophiles my friend. What I said was, if my sister/niece had reached the age of puberty (which means when she could have children) and was acting like a young woman, and the man was pious, then why not. I never mentioned anything about age, and u would b a liar if u accuse me of that. Anyway, go crawl back into your hole, and get lost
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
I was lost for words? Hahaha! Says the man who was so lost for words, he wrote some immoral, depraved shit about the fact you'd let a 40 year old man fuck your 9 year old relative, and then deleted it, in what I can only assume was a a sudden crisis of morality, where you realised if you did that, you'd be aiding and abetting a paedophile.
I know you never mentioned age, but I DID, and it was the main point of the conversataion, so you didn't have to.
nick260682 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
And the reason I was quoting you the dictionary, was because you didn't know what the definition was. Then you challenged the official definition. I was trying to help you understand a wrod, as you needed help. Then you try and laugh at me, because you don't understand English?
And if you set up a 9 year oldm, who I'm sorry, is by anyone's definition a child, then you are helping a paedophile. I'm not saying you have , but you said you would in theory. Sick twisted man.
nick260682 7 months ago
..you go after lust, instead of a long lasting relationship. You go after love, instead of Family and companionship. These r temporary pleasures, and as we can see, they don't last. Your wrong mate, Women cant be OBJECTS of desire, but they can and will be desired (The Quran says so). Your women r like objects, and r living their lives like a fish in a tank, who is being watched always by staring eyes. Listen mate, don't give me that crap now, we r having an open and honest convo yeah. There..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Fuck off paedophile apologist.
Scum of the fucking earth. I hope you never have kids so you can't pass them on to a paedophile.
Would you have sex with a 9 year old girl?
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Listen, don't get your facts twisted mate. pedophiles r what u have in your western countries (and many of them), who torture pre puberty girls, and rape them and kill them. Don't u dare try putting that crap with ISLAM. No parent would give their daughter to a rapist, or to b tortured, and/or maybe killed. If they did, then they would b lunatics. You always seen to confuse Islam with the worst in your western society.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Listen, don't get your definitions twisted mate.
Dictionary website:
"Paedophile: a person who is sexually attracted to children "
"Child: a person between birth and full growth"
A nine year old is invariably a child. So if you want to fuck a 9 year old, you are a paedophile.
I will put that crap with Islam, when the guy who started it was by definition a paedophile himself.
Now tell me, do you want to fuck 9 year olds?
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 That dictionary definition is ridiculous. Again, it is a man made definition, which can change at any time with the law. Tell me, so according to the dictionary, u cant b attracted to a girl who is 17 years old and one day away from being 18? Would u be a pedophile? In some countries, the legal age is 11/12, so what would your dictionary say to them? Stop talking out your backside mate.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Of course it's a man made definition you idiot. What the fuck else could it be? And it's nothing to do with law. We have a definition of children and a definition of paedophiles. And you defend paedophiles.
I just searched dictionary, cambridge, oxford, google, the free dictionary, wordnet, merriam-webster, yahoo and wordsmyth. They ALL have the same, or almost the same definition. But I suppose you're still right.
I'll ask you again. Would you fuck a 9 year old?
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Who said I defend pedophiles? Who said I defend the Men who abduct,torture, and rape even their own daughters (Joseph fritzl) hey? It does have something to do with the law Einstein. How, well again, if the law changes, with a change of leader, and he decides Women r minors till the age of 30, then u r a pedophile for even thinking about her sexually. What if he changes the law to minors till 12, then what? You r bound by man made ever changing laws my friend. Why don't u tell me..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
You said you would help a 40 year old man have sex with your 9 year old daughter. So you aren't only defending paedophiles, you are even helping them!!
And the definition is simple: "Paedophile: a person who is sexually attracted to children "
Most girls who are 17 or so are fully grown. There is a MASSIVE difference between 9 and 16 or 17, physically and mentally. If you can't see that, then I fear for young girls in your community.
AGAIN, do you want to fuck 9 year olds?
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Your full of crap. Don't quote me your BS definition OK. So by this definition, u cant b attracted to a 17 year old girl? They r considered minors in your country, and u will go to jail if u have sex with them. Don'y talk to me about the difference between ages Einstein. Of course I can see the difference, but although a young girl, be it 9 or whatever may have some growing up to do physically and mentally (so do some 25/30 year olds), u leave out the biggest detail, and that is..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
It's not MY definition you moron!! That's the point! It's the standard English language definition! Researched from many given sources!
If you don't accept the definition of words, then how can anyone talk ever? No one would ever know what anyone was talking about. There is a standard version of English, and if you don't accept it, how the fuck are we supposed to know what eachother are talking about?
nick260682 7 months ago
..a girl, be it 9 or older, who has reached puberty, can go through the most painful, the most biggest and most intense thing she will ever have to go through, and that is to give birth to a child, which many 9 year olds throughout history have done. Now, for an atheist, this is a problem, because how can one so young, that u consider so very small to even do anything for herself, give birth, but for Muslims, this is no problem, because the creator knows what he has created.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
Comment removed
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
It's not for atheists in particular to explain.
But I can explain why and how a 9 year old gives birth.
1. She gets raped by a paedophile.
2. The baby emerges 9 months later from the little girl's vagina. This almost invariably leaves the mother with irreparable damage to her body, and mind.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 It's frustrating debating someone who believes in 7th century Ideologies , isn't it? I just shake my head at these people. They have no place in western civilization.
MrBrational 7 months ago
@MrBrational
But did you read the last few comments? I don't even know what the hell he's trying to say? I tguess because he was losing badly, he started sputing utter babble.
He also admitted in a comment that he subsequently removed that he'd be happy to let a 40 year old man have sex with his 9 year old daughter/sister/neice/whatever, so long as the guy was ok.
Show's you how much Mohammed has fucked up a whole section of people in the world by setting a paedophillic example.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Yeah, go ahead, read my last few comments, u fool. What I was trying to say is simple, You say how could the prophet marry a 9 year old, and say all sorts of crap to help your claim, like she was so young, and what not. My reply is simple, we believe in GOD, and GOD knows his creation, and what they r capable of. GOD made certain girls mature, and reach puberty early, like Aisha, who like I said, became the greatest female scholar, and loved the prophet, Atheists, fall flat..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
..on their faces, when they try to argue about this, because they say a girl of 9 can't do anything for herself, and this and that, yet they have to accept that a girl of 9, though she might have some maturing to do, can go through the hardest, and most intense thing in her whole life, and that is giving birth to a child (many have in history), and so, in reality, this specific 9 year old, is a young woman, and not like most people her age. I also argue that it was normal in them days, and..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
..history proves this. The byzantine kings married young girls, Mary mother of Jesus was about 11/12 when she gave birth, and also, she was married to Joseph, who was about 60/70. Forget the distant past, lets look at the state of your western countries, only 100 years ago, where the age of consent was between as young as 9/12 in most countries (Don't believe me, check it yourself). Another point I could argue, is that their was no childhood in the ancient days, and only recently (150 years)..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Just because little girls are able to get pregnant, doesn't mean they SHOULD!! That old "if there's grass on the wicket, we can play cricket" thing, isn't to be taken literally. Unless you're a paedophile.
I understand things were different then. But people also kept slaves then. Do you think that's ok too? No, obviously not. And I'll tell you why. Because we move on, and away from the disgusting morals in the Bible or Koran, or whatever. And you need to too.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 GRASS ON THE WICKET! Listen mate, u need to stop comparing two completely opposite things. I mean, r u comparing a Human being with a square of mud? Listen, we believe in God right, and we believe if GOD makes a girl reach puberty at a young age, then that''s what she is, A YOUNG WOMAN who can give birth. Tell me, if giving birth does not define what we should call a young woman, then what should?
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
What that saying means, is that if a girl has pubic hair, it is ok to have sex with them. I disagree with that statement, you don't. So don't get all moralistic with me. You fucking scum paedophile apologist.
If a girl has a baby at 9, she almost invariably does damage to her body, because although she is physically capable of conceiving, her body is not yet ready to take that kind of stress.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Mr Nick, the beauty of this very attack (9 years), is that we feel whatever our Prophet did was pure and correct, but others accuse him of rape,torture,murder, and what not, but everything our prophet did has been proved, or if not, soon will be to b right. 9 year old girls have given birth, so that means they must have reached puberty at 7 or 8, so just like that, My beloved prophet has been proven to b correct. By the way, I'm sure I mentioned Aisha loved him very much.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
And that's why your morals are so skewed, because you can't see the man for what he was. A paedophile. If anything, it has been proved NOT to be right. No normal person thinks it's ok to have sex with little girls these days.
nick260682 7 months ago
Don't dare talk to me about morals, when u don't even know your own. The reason I say it is proven right, is because if girls did not give birth at 9, then we Muslims would have no answer to your attacks, but since they do, then we can say he married a young woman, who had reached puberty, and also that it was normal back then. If u were born 50 years ago, then your morals would have told u that Gays r wrong, but since your born in this age, then your morals tell u that they r right. This could
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
What do you mean I don't know my own morals? You have no idea what my morals are. The only thing you know about my morals, is that I don't think it's ok to have sex with children. I would have thought that a good start. But you disagree with me. You think it's ok to have sex with children, and it makes me feel sick.
I wouldn't have minded gays whenever it was. As long as they aren't hurting anyone else, and more importantly, are NOT CHILDREN then they can do what they like
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Now your really bullshitting LOL. You would most likely not have stood gays, if u lived 100 years ago, just like most of the world did not stand them.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
So do you accept that actually you have no idea what my morals are and therefore that you are in no position to tell me mine are "dodgy"?
I imagine if you are admitting to being a paedophile, like you have done to me, most people would be rude, hostile and abusive to you. It's the having sex with kids thing people don't like. Maybe you should stop saying it's ok to have sex with children, and people wouldn't be rude to you.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 I never said it was OK to have sex with kids, u ignorant fool, who is also a blatant liar. Read my comments, and u will see me say time and again "YOUNG WOMEN", who have reached puberty and can conceive. I can find no better way of determining when a girl becomes a young women. When do u think a girl becomes a woman? Is it when her father rapes her, like so many western fathers r doing? Sorry for being rude, but u atheists r full of crap
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
You have said it time and time again that you think it's ok to have sex with kids. For some reason you have re-defined what children are. But any normal person considers a 9 year old to be a child. And you think it's ok to have sex with them.
So I'm not lying.
Why do you say "western fathers" like that has something to do with me? In the west we think it's wrong for fathers to rape their daughters. Muslim men do it too. In the west we don't think it's ok to fuck children.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 I mean u cant define exactly what your morals r, because they r ever changing, apart from the obvious things, like right and wrong. But like I said, you rview of whats right and wrong will, and has changed with time, and with the law of the land.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Yes you're right my morals can change but this is WITHOUT QUESTIONn a good thing. It means when I get new information, I can change my mind.
And the reason it has changed over time, is because we have constantly had new information. Or we have constantly worked out better ways of conducting ourselves. You can't please all the people all the time, but I think most people would agree that the western world's morals are better now than 50, 100, 200, 300 years ago.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 I don't think morals should b a thing that changes whenever the mood is right, and whenever your desires demand it. Think of the damage that can do, if u have morals that always change and change and change. You say any normal person, but what about the people in south america, and parts of Europe, like Romania, who get married and have kids as young as 9? Just because your incest infected society thinks it wrong, does not mean it is, and if u get off your backside, and do some..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
It's not to do with desires or moods. I never said that so stop lying. But the human race learns new things about how to prevent suffering and promote happiness. And we can change our morals to suit this knowledge.
I condem them the same way I condem anyone who has sex with children. It's all wrong.
Incest infected? Do you want to give me any facts on how London is "incest infected"? I thought it was Muslims who married their cousins. Preferably if they are children.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 OK, now u r really going crazy LOL. Are u comparing cousin marriage to incest between siblings? You sound desperate mate. Who r u to condemn what others do in their own country, and their own culture and traditions? Just like u think your right, so do they, and just like u don't want to b condemned for what many outsiders would call immoral acts in your society, don't condemn others.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
It's not the same, but can still result in unhealthy babies.
I can condem whoever I like. Especially paedophiles.
And I condem people in my society just as much if they are paedophiles. I'm not picking on you because you are muslim, but because you think fucking kids is ok.
I sound desperate? Really? At least I don't sound desperate to have sex with children you sick fuck.
Have you had sex with a 9 year old? Honestly?
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 I can also condemn the swingers, who swap wives and husbands with each other, I can also condemn the gang banging orgies, where 1 women is getting pounded by 3/4 men at once. I thought I cleared the kids crap. I never ever said kids, so why r u lying? I said girl who has reached puberty and can conceive. You might say, well that's a kid, but then I also show u examples from Europe, and south america, who think they r young women, but u condemn them LOL. GET LOST U FOOL. PEACE
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
This has nothing to do with me though. Why do you keep bringing up all these things. They are all between consenting ADULTS. I wouldn't do it personally, but if people want to do it and no one is harmed, then good luck to them.
You didn't say the word kid, but you did say 9 year old girls. And 9 year old girls ARE CHILDREN. It doesn't matter what stage of their development they are at. THEY ARE CHILDREN. Get that through your depraved skull.
nick260682 7 months ago
..u cant marry, or do anything with them. I would not to go against society, but that does not mean I agree with it. In my personal opinion, girls who can conceive, in reality r young women, and the ability to givie birth is the biggest reason why they r, but nowadays, u guys got it all twisted, and forget 9, u even consider much older women (17?) to still b girls, and u will b thrown in jail if u have sex with them. I did not say 9 year old girls, but I did say girls who have the capability..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Girls who are 9 are too young to have sex. Forget the fact that they may be physically mature, I have never met a 9 year old who is ready to have sex mentally or look after a baby.
But you don't give a fuck.
So basically what you've admitted to me is that you think being a paedophile is ok, and so is rape.
Scum.
nick260682 7 months ago
..to look after them, so quit with that strawman. I have given u proof (ability to conceive), and have given u historical, and recent examples, but u ignore everything. Listen mate, since u r so morally correct, why not go around the western world, and clean up all the immorality's in that society. It would take u all your life, and u still wont b finished, far from it, but at least u will stop bugging me (joking lol). Seriously, u need to clean your own backyard mate, and then look at others
FULF1Z 7 months ago
..to give birth. 9 year olds who can conceive r children by your western standards, but if u go around the world, people view them differently, and in some countries the age of consent is as low as 12. Who r you to condemn them, when your own society is the most immoral? you should clean your own backyard, before condemning to others. PEACE
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
What don't you get about the fact that, just because a girl is physically able to concieve, doesn't mean she should AT ALL.
You got all stroppy when I mentioned the mildly offensive "grass on the wicket" thing, but that is basically what you believe. You have no care for the little girl whatsoever. As long as she matures early, you think it's ok to try and fuck her. You couldn't give a shit about what she wants.
But then this is symptomatic of Islam's innate misogyny.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Your full of crap mate. Who says we have no care for the young woman? Obviously it will b the parents decision to give her to someone. and what makes u think they will give her to someone who's bad? Like I said before, where in the Muslim world do u c young girls getting married off to older men? Where in the Muslim world do u c millions of young women having babies? It is very rare for our society, but that does not mean its wrong. If the parents feel their daughter is mature..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
If you're letting paedophiles have sex with them I'M SAYING you have no care for little girls.
" Obviously it will b the parents decision" OBVIOUSLY it won't!! It should be the girl's decision!! It's her fucking life!! Not her parent's life! Why do you think it's right for parents to be dictators over their children's entire life!!
fucked up.
nick260682 7 months ago
Well like I said, it is very rare in our society, but again, if the parents feel their daughter is mature, then they can. Again, like I said, the parents wont give her to some lunatic, and if they did, they would b crazy. Listen, in ISLAM, we like to give parents a little more rights than in your atheist society.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z Parents have the right to raise their children BUT not own them. Its a parents duty to raise a child, but not force them to marry, or to follow a career path, or tell them what religion they have to follow. If islam allows a parent to own a child then islam is immoral as a FACT. Humans don't like suffering FACT. So your whole "athiesm has man made laws" is incorrect. It is islam that is man made, along with all other religions.
MrKingatheist 7 months ago
@MrKingatheist Hello mate, and thank u for not being abusive like many other atheists I come across. All I want, is someone to have a nice convo with, without them using the most filthiest language imaginable. You say we have taken Women's freedom and basically that we control them, well can u plz explain to me why Women r converting in larger numbers than men? I would call this a minor miracle of my religion, which is that even though there is huge propaganda against how Islam treats Women..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z Ok well as islam is a massive religion which consists of 1.2 billion, i suspect that certain branches of islam give women equal rights. I personally have many muslim friends, many who are women. Some are even secular, i.e. they believe we all should believe what we want AS LONG as you don't force your views on others. Now my concern is with the extreme branches in all religion, so its not an islamic thing, but anyone who claims women cant choose a partner, i have to defend against.
MrKingatheist 7 months ago
yet they r converting many more than men. I didn't mean who r u, as in your history, but to tell nick, that his society has major flaws, and so, he should clear that up bfore judging N bashing other cultures and society's. I never said Islam allows parents to own a child, but if Parents cant own their own children, then who can? I am a proud slave of my Parents I said Islam gives the Parents huge rights, and we respect them rights. Atheism does have man made laws, and they openly admit this.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@MrKingatheist We like to think of ourselves as a society that allows Parents to make decisions for us, because Parents r your true watchers, and guardians, and only want the best for u. They know u better than u know yourself, and can c clearer than u (most times). Nobody said anything about raping girls. Islam has the most sever punishment for rape. Islam also gives the woman choice of marriage, and rejection. Islam strictly forbids forced marriage, which is different to arranged marriage..
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z You don't care for young women because they are objects that YOU own. They do as you say. They marry who YOU say. You have taken away their freedom. You want power over others, to dominate their will, and this is why islam is so addictive.
MrKingatheist 7 months ago
@MrKingatheist Islamic doctrine prohibits marrying women against their will. Marriages are consensual from both parties. Blatant error sir.
ISMASHYOUBRO 5 months ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO I was repyling to FULF1Z, so if your correct the error then is from FULF1Z as he claimed parents choose who their daughters marry. If women are given an equal choice in marriage, like men, there is no problem.
MrKingatheist 5 months ago
@MrKingatheist Well parents play an important role for both genders in helping to decide a suitable match. In Islamic teaching it is one of the rights of the parents for their children(in finding good matches for their children) The final decision is up to the male or female.
ISMASHYOUBRO 5 months ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO If a male of female wants to search for a partner alone, without interference from third partys (family or not) then they should have that right. I can see that the rights of the parents in finding matches for their children could clash with their childrens right and could become a liability. If they want their parents to help them find a partner its fine. If the parents rights clash with the childs rights, the childs right take preference as its their life, not the parents.
MrKingatheist 5 months ago
That's really dependent on whom the child wants to marry and whom the parent WANT the child to marry. For instance, I'm pretty sure most parents wouldn't allow their daughters to marry anyone shady. It's all about thinking long term as well. The criterion for finding a suitable match is that the person should be pious above all other things. Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. Generally speaking if the child and parents interests clash, then it cannot always be in the childs favour. Cont'd.
ISMASHYOUBRO 5 months ago
Basically in Islam, there are limits to both parties. If the child has found a suitable match whom he/she is willing to marry and that person is a Muslim(whether you like this or not, it's generally prohibited for Muslims to marry Non-Muslims) then the parent technically has no right to intervene. If the child is marrying a non-Muslim, the parent can interject if I recall. Sometimes the child doesn't always know what's best, and naturally the parent wants to find someone who they feel is best.
ISMASHYOUBRO 5 months ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO Well you are correct, i feel the religion of the male or female is irrelevant. What matters is if both people are compatible for each other. As you said beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in which case its the childs. A parent cannot know 100% who will make their child happy. The male/female must find the right person. Both parent and child are capable of making mistakes, still in the end its the childs life, not the parents, they do not have the right to violate their freedom.
MrKingatheist 5 months ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO You are correct, i feel the religion of the male or female is irrelevant. What matters is if both people are compatible for each other. As you said beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in which case its the childs. So its the childs right to search and choose for themselves. I agree some people are foolish and make bad choices, however the same rule applys to the parent, they can make bad choices! In the end its the childs life, they must make their own choice for the long run.
MrKingatheist 5 months ago
@MrKingatheist Right I never said the parents DON'T make bad choices. I'm just saying that both must look for the best in the long term. I'm basically outlining the Islamic perspective of marriages. Let's look at a lot of 'love' marriages today. The divorce rate is above 50% in North America. Marriages are considered sacred matrimonial contracts in Islam(and Christianity) which is why the doctrine ensures that the marriages are lasting(not to say divorce can never happen but it's more efficient)
ISMASHYOUBRO 5 months ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO America is a christain country, and i agree its social structure is weak. In america athesits have lower divorse rates(21%) than Christains(24%). Now im not saying religion is inferior, but i feel its not a necessity, i think discipline and education (from any religous/non religous view) is required to rectify social problems. One other thing, some marriages may last long, but may not be happy. I think the quality of marriage is another element to look into on this topic.
MrKingatheist 5 months ago
@MrKingatheist Of course. By Islamic law, if there is unhappiness in a marriage, then divorce may be sought. I understand you don't feel religion is necessary. I differ but I don't want to get into that monster of a discussion. Peace.
ISMASHYOUBRO 5 months ago
@MrKing Atheist 21% divorced and 24% christians,thats intresting information well BTW not much difrence ,,but in muslims you will hardly find upto 10% ,,,
amirzubairmughal 4 months ago
@amirzubairmughal Send me the source of your information. Your Hamza idol has weak arguments which only fanboy muslims (guys who don't read philosophy and only hear what they want to hear) agree with.
MrKingatheist 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Basically in Islam, there are limits to both parties. If the child has found a suitable match whom he/she is willing to marry and that person is a Muslim(whether you like this or not, it's generally prohibited for Muslims to marry Non-Muslims) then the parent technically has no right to intervene. If the child is marrying a non-Muslim, the parent can interject if I recall. Sometimes the child doesn't always know what's best, and naturally the parent wants to find someone who they feel is best.
ISMASHYOUBRO 5 months ago
..enough, then they can choose to give her to someone who will look after her, and like I said, they will choose the best man. Who r u to condemn other cultures, and society's when yours is, according to many, the most immoral, and evil in the World, where u can do anything under the banner of consenting Adults. You have never met a young women who wanted to have a baby? Well I can tell u o millions of older Women around the world who didn't want to have babies, and were not prepared...
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z
Choose the best man? When it's well documented that thousands of muslim women are unhappy in relationships forced upon them by their parents, and (here's the important bit) CANNOT LEAVE. And this is well documented.
The difference between consenting adults and unconsenting children, I would have thought was obvious. It's embarrassing to have to explain. Consenting adults don't hurt anyone else. Unconsenting children GET HURT.
nick260682 7 months ago
@nick260682 Listen, why don't u turn off your computer for once, and do some travelling in Muslim lands, and lets see how many oppressed women u find. I could also play that card, and say that your society is full of child molesters (younger than 9), and r a bunch of wife beaters, but I'm cleverer than that, and don't believe what the media tells me, and I don't paint everyone with the same brush. Tell me, what good has your consenting marriages got u, apart from millions of divorces.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z Who are we? we are human. We are scientists, curers of disease, enhancers of technology and reducers of suffering. Humans don't like suffering, it is more complex but science studies who humans are biologically. If a culture is unhealthly, causes suffering and destorys lives WE WILL CONDEMN. Yes your correct, the west is guility but atheism is against christianity, which fuels wars with islam from the west. Many atheists oppose capitalism. We offer a true future for the speices.
MrKingatheist 7 months ago
..but some ignorant Muslims practice this corrupt teaching. Then again, u get ignorant people everywhere don't u?
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z Yep, its not a muslim thing its a human thing. I think religion has it wrong on what caused the universe, however i believe people have a right to believe and i think its good to hear other peoples ideas. On ethics however i am unbiased in my judgement of humans who inflict suffering. I feel my people are the WHOLE speices. If a fellow human is immoral i have to defend against his/her actions, regardless of if they are using religious excuse, or non religous excuses (corrupt politics)
MrKingatheist 7 months ago
@MrKingatheist Well I don't know about other religions, but I'm pretty sure the Quran says it was a bang that caused the universe, but where we disagree on, is that if a bang happened on its own, or was there a creator to make it happen? We happen to believe in the latter, and u the former. We need to talk amongst ourselves (Muslims and atheists), to help each other learn more, and to find the real truth.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z You have a superficial understanding of the big bang. It is not an explosion, its an expansion. As much as I would like to discuss these matters with other scientists (muslim or otherwise), religion has nothing to offer in the search for truth. Religion is byproduct of cultural evolution and there is NO evidence for the truth of ANY religion and PILES of evidence against religion.
Savage911a 7 months ago
@Savage911a How can u claim that? Have u studied all the major religions? If u look back at history, you will find that it was Muslim scientists who got the world out of the dark ages, and invented thousands upon thousands of inventions, and made many scientific breakthroughs. You r being quite harsh when u criticize religion, and say that it can't offer anything. Qur'an commands us to learn, and calls for us to be knowledgeable. Nothing about ISLAM stops people from science, but people alone
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z Although arabic (not necessarily Muslim) scientists have done their share in developing science, so have many other people from other religions and non religions. These have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with insight of the people. If a religion contributes something, then it must be something revealed by the religion itself (maybe through the quran or bible) that furthers our understanding of the world.
Savage911a 7 months ago
@Savage911a There r many things revealed in the Qur'an. I admit, that some of them r vague, but that is the test. If the Qur'an had every scientific discovery, then everyone would b Muslim, and there would b no need to test Humans. The Qur'an promotes learning, and gaining knowledge.
FULF1Z 7 months ago
@FULF1Z You're God is testing people by giving them incorrect and vague claims in one religion which is among 10,000 other religions, and then rewarding the people who blindly accept these claims and punishing those who don't, despite the fact that the vast majority of muslims are muslims as an accident of birth, just like all other religions?
Savage911a 6 months ago
It is written on my page. "I'm a Muslim not because i was born in a Muslim country, but because islam is the only religion that makes sense to me, it explains the world and the next life clearly and effectively and it answers all my questions about creation". Now this is what I believe, and until I find something better, I'm sticking with it. I don't believe for one second that we came from apes, and in the evolution theory. That to me is illogical. Can u plz explain to me what emotions are?
FULF1Z 6 months ago
@FULF1Z It doesn't matter if you in particular converted, the VAST MAJORITY of religious peoples simply follow the religion of their parents and your response didn't adress how God is FAIR in judging people on that. Evolution is a fact, and you might as well deny gravity while your at it. Emotions are chemical reactions taking please in areas of our brain including the limbic system and the amygdala, they motivate our behaviour.
Savage911a 6 months ago
@Savage911a Chemical reactions hey. That is a really nice answer, but I think I will stay with Islam. GOD is fair, and Islam say's, that the message of GOD will reach everybody, and those who don't get to know about it, they r not to b accounted for their sins. Gravity is a man made word for the creation of GOD, and has been attributed to nature and the universe, just like every other living thing.
FULF1Z 6 months ago
@FULF1Z So you asked me a question, I gave you the scientific answer, and you reject it because your "God is fair", which is a TOTALLY IRRELEVANT point. Its like saying "hey I know you're saying 1 + 1 = 2, but that chair over there is made of wood so I'll believe that 1 + 1 = 3."
Savage911a 6 months ago
@FULF1Z
"GOD is fair"
The god of the bible & koran is far from fair, more like injust, inept, etc, etc.
"Islam say's, that the message of GOD will reach everybody"
Message of MAN, remember that. And besides, billions of people have lived on this planet without even hearing about Islam or Christianity. Fail.
"those who don't get to know about it, they r not to b accounted for their sins"
So it would have been better not to preach the religion lulz.
TurboDally 6 months ago
@FULF1Z Scientific development has nothing to do with religion or divine revelations. When was the last time we ever able to explain a scientific phenomena or invented something based on godly revelation...... that's right, never. By the way the Arabic scholars and philosopher owe a lot to the Greek, and if we are going to apply your logic then the Muslims of the golden era owe it to the pagans and the paganistic virtues.
nighrage 7 months ago