The whole object of hockey is to put the puck in the net. Gretz did that better than anybody. Ya Orr was tougher and could hit and is the greatest Dman of all time. Orr may of been more skilled but Gretz is and will always be the smartest player ever. Bottom line is you cant compare two different positions in two different eras.
All - Pro's play with or against (3) ERA's. 1. Players from 10-20 yrs prior. 2. Their current ERA. 3. Towards the end of their career-they play against the next ERA. Orr dominated all three. Whether is was Hull.....Bucyk.......Howe...Beliveau....LeFleur....Potvin...Robinson..Pirreault.....Martin....Clarke...Park....---Orr was head and shoulders above them all. Imagine Orr playing with today's skates and sticks, not to mention protective gear. He would be ALL WORLD. Any era.
I saw Orr and Gretzky's entire careers......Orr was the best ever. Defense is twice as hard as Center to play. Gretzky was AWESOME, no disrespect intended. But there are no Gretzky highlights of : Checking. Back checking. Blocking a shot. Defending a team mate in a hostile arena. (Boston vs. Philly games were BRUTAL). Stopping a 2 on 1. etc etc....Orr's PLUS / MINUS numbers are off the charts, more than twice that of Gretzky's.
Just to finish my thought below. Orr was on the ice so long , naturally there were times he would seem lethargic. Then suddenly the batteries recharge and Orr explodes.
Greatzky dominated in an era when Dennis Maruk scored 60 goals. I saw a classic 1970 All Star game recently when they were played to win-Bobby Orr was running circles around those players from the midpoint of the game to the end. Funny thing with Orr, he seemed to pace himself and just when you think he's just an average player he would drive through the entire team. I've seen half a dozen classic Boston games and there isn't one game when Orr doesn't go through the entire team at least once.
@76niro The facts don't lie. Maruk 50 goals in 1981 and 60 in 1982. Gretzky broke records in both those years. Mike Rogers had three 100 point seasons. Who the eff is Mike Rodgers? Stastny 139 points. Nilsson 131 points. Hull 70 goals a year from 1989-1992. His father never did that and anybody who saw both players will tell you Brett was no Bobby Hull. Who does that in today's game? Who did that in 1970? Esposito from Orr. Nobody else was close.
@ycanada Gretzky highest points was in 86 with 215... those 2 guys had 60 points that year...bossy one of the greats 120 points that season..perhaps they played with great players that year...Maruk played with mike gartner...As for Brett Hull...He played with Adam Oates those seasons...one of the greatest playmakers
I can't imagine anyone ever being better than Wayne Gretzky...but if you ask those who witnessed both of them first hand, they unequivocally tell you that there has never been a hockey player like Bobby Orr!
In addition to the highlights were are seeing, Orr pulled his own weight in the toughness department. He didn't need goons to protect him. He fought his own battles.
Greatest player I ever saw was Bobby Orr, and I grew up a Blackhawks fan. He could skate, score, play defense, and when penalty killing hang on to the puck for as long as he wanted. He was the most complete player in history. Gretzky was great, but Bobby Orr could have played in any era and still be the best. If Gretzky played back then, he would have gotten killed. There's no way he would have scored that many goals. And Bobby Orr played DEFENSE!!!.
when someone tries to say gretzky is better than Orr, I challenge them. I say, ok, you take 5 gretzkys and i'll take 5 Orrs. let's play a game. same goalie at each end. obviously, half way through the first period, at least 3 gretzkys are saying," i'm not going back out there. he hits me. and there's no cement head and messier to protect me! i want my mommy!" orr, lemieux, and possibly? gretzky as a distant third! ps crosby? surely you jest
Orr by a landslide. If Wayne played back then, he would have gotten his ass kicked. Not to say he wasn't a great player, but Orr changed the game forever, he had the puck, and he could skate with it all night long. Great on defense, fantastic on offense. Even better killing penalties.
A couple of things. I am Canadian, and any Canadian who knows anything about hockey knows that Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player of them all. Gretzky is the greatest scorer of all-time, but that is NOT the same thing as being the Greatest Hockey Player. Also, Wayne took US Citizenship about six years ago. Bobby Orr never has. Bobby = Canada.
Thanks for this post. I remembrer watch Orr play. You always knew he would be entertaining to watch and make the other team look like kids trying to catch him. His career ended early partially because Don Cherry played him 59 minutes of every hockey game, knowing that Orr was always shadowed by two enforcers on the other team every game. In my opinion, he will always be the best hockey player to ever to have laced up skates.
Well folks this question is becoming irrelevant very quickly. Based on the skill level, speed and changes in the game, Sid the kid is the best player in the world and neither Orr nor Getzky would dominate the way they did in their respective eras in this much more competitive, high speed, high skill game that it is today. Sid, however is clearly distinguishing himself even at this level.
@rushrules65 Omg kid, Crosby isn't even good. The media tries to make him look good but he isn't. If you see Crosby even try to do the fancy stuff Gretzky and Orr do, he fails and slips up and causes a goal against his team. He's a poor sport, and a disgrace. Youre terrible, go kill yourself if you think you can compare Orr to Crosby.
Once again you show you know zero about hockey! You have given Canada a bad name as you show complete ignorance about the game or either of these great players.
If Orr played his natural position which is CENTER, he would have been a better overall player right off the top, but if Bobby was hanging back behind the net, and his ability right in front of the net, he could have smashed every record Gretzky ever had. He was a far superior athlete, equal in his ability to make everyone around him a better player. Orr was the 4th leading scorer in points per game all time behind Gretzky, Lemieux, ?, & then Orr. Orr as a Dman had to play the point mostly.
If Orr played his natural position which is CENTER, he would have been a better overall player right off the top, but if Bobby was hanging back behind the net, and his ability right in front of the net, he would have smashed every record Gretzky ever had. He was a far superior athlete, an equal in his ability to make everyone around him a much better player. Orr was the 4th leading scorer all time behind Gretzky, Lemieux, and ?, then Orr, and Orr had to play D and be mostly at the point.
Its unbelievable watching these highlight reels, orr routinely draws/beats 3+ guys and either scores or passes to one of his open teammates. Setting up behind the net maybe gretzky's calling card, but Orr's has to be out-skating everyone on the ice.
No one should hate on Wayne but Orr was defiently the greatest of all time. +597 on one damn leg? Nobody was, is and EVER will become better than that man
@danniidee1 I think not, he was good but Gretzky was on an total different level, did Orr even come close to amassing the amount of points 99 did, nope, Gretzky is and will always be the GREAT ONE.
@iLuvBarRefaeli Gretzky on a totally different level??? Orr revolutionized the game. And the reason that Orr never came close to matching Gretzky's point total is that his knees gave out on him. Had he played today, with the advancements in reconstructive knee surgery, he would have played for at least 6, maybe 8 more years. And this comparison would be a moot point.
@grandpavanderhof Your American, your opinion on hockey means just about as much as a talking monkey to me. Let the Canadians decide who these two great Canadians are better...mkay
@iLuvBarRefaeli That's like saying I have no right to say whether or not Italian food taste good because I am scot/irish by birth! Just because I am an Amercian does not mean that I know nothing about hockey! I grew up in Maine, and it is just as big there as it is in Canada! Gretzky was the greatest scorer, but Orr was the best all-around, with Gordie Howe a close second.
@iLuvBarRefaeli - Isn't it funny how the only leg a Gretzky fan has is stats, which by the way are for losers, but in points per game, Orr is 4th all time in points per game, and if you take the points scored when Orr played and increased them to fit into the same as the time period Gretzky played, the final in points per game would be 2.0 for Gretzky and 1.75 for Orr.
If Orr had played center, his NATURAL position and stayed behind the net making plays, he would have easily been his Equal.
@iLuvBarRefaeli How ignorant of you to say you being a Canuck means you no more about hockey. Most players who played with both say Orr, hands down. Most fans who watched both say Orr, hands down. I bet You never saw Orr, & I bet you didn't no his natural position was center, & if you think that Orr, the 4th highest scorer in points per game, couldn't add a whole 1/4 point to tie Gretzky simply by having time to hang around the net all day as Gretz did, Ur a disgrace to Canucks. Stats R4 losers
@quasi1981 Stats are for losers yet you bark on about points per game, how ironic eh, think before you speak, and go play baseball yankee, you are boring me, and yes got news for you the average Canadian knows more about hockey than the avid American hockey fan. Thats just the way it goes.
@iLuvBarRefaeli I am not into stats but 99% Gretzky fans from CANADA all blab on and on about his stats and so you have to use them sometimes. Did you know that there are real live hockey players here in New England that play in college and the pros? Did you know that hockey is huge in Boston and they know their stuff. Gretzky was so one dimensional, and there are oh so many Orr fans from Canada. You are one of the most ignorant fans I have seen ever. You know nothing about the game at all!
@quasi1981 OMG hockey is huge in Boston, no way! guess what hockey is Huge all over Canada. Bow to your master, and enjoy that silver of yours. ! cheers!
@iLuvBarRefaeli You're an ignorant Canadian 12 year old, therefore your opinion on anything is invalid, sorry come again. You know what, just stay out.
@MrEpikPenguin You are American, therefore you are obese, have a shorter lifespan than me, live in a more dangerous land than me, have less rights than me, and play hockey worse than me. Those are all facts, you sir - are an idiot, thank you come again, or should I say Gracias, considering your basically half Mexican down there.
@iLuvBarRefaeli You sound pretty mad, a stereotypical ignorant Canadian. Why don't you go calm down with some poutine with maple syrup on it, eh? And I thought I told you to stay out?
@MrEpikPenguin Im not mad, you`re just entertaining me im having fun, and mm no lies I had poutine for lunch today, soo good, the cheese in this one was brilliant! syrup on it, ew dumb, i save the syrup for my pancakes. Stay out? umm sorry im Canadian therfore im not used to being banned from places and having my rights stripped like how the us is the only country to condemn children to life imprisonment, go play baseball yankee!
@MrEpikPenguin Boring, whistles every 5 seconds, basically the less interesting, less action packed version of its more successful brother Rugby, anyways a Boston cream donut is the official donut of Massachusetts, look it up its pretty good, they sell them at timmies!
@TheIceman567 No not really, Orr could do it all, defense, offense, fight hit etc....Wayne was the greatest goal scorer but NOT a COMPLETE hockey player!! So I'd revise your book!
@TheIceman567 NO!! I said he was the greatest goal scorer and he does own every OFFENSIVE record, but I said "COMPLETE PLAYER"!! and ORR was the greatest!!
Orr is the best. He did everything on ice, defense, offense, hits. He was a one-man-team, Gretz just a foward. A good foward, the best foward ever, but he didn't controlled the game like Orr did. gretzky's records are awesome, but never a defenseman will approach Bobby orr statistic's too, it's impossible.
Orr invented the Rush D or OD.Some say Gretzky invented the behind the net,but as you can see in many videos Orr was using the net while Gretzky was in diapers.To invent and change the game for ever is GREATNESS!
That being said, could you imagine a dream team with both Orr, Gretzky, as well as Espizito and Howe? They would be unstoppable. Think about it: you're a goalie, Orr scores on a rush, and then comes down with one of those other men. Who do you watch? Does Orr shoot? Does he deke and dump it off to Howe or Gretzky? I would love to build a sim of that team!
@ejikvkaske i do 1-5 was how orr played he didnt need teamates he was that good 1 orr would tear up 5 gretzkys becasue gretzky wouldnt ever touch the puck
Gretzky brought Stanley Cups upon Stanley cups for the Oilers. His job was not to block shots, hit or backcheck. Orr is the greatest defenseman ever but overall he was not better than Gretzky, irrespective of plus or minus!
No doubt Gretzky was an amazing point machine. After every game, he'd be all over the score board. But, it was Bobby Orr that brought you out your seat on every rush. There was never anyone like him before and he set the table for everyone to come after.
Yeah, in less than ten years. Wayne re-wrote the record book AND for you idiots knocking his teram.. Oilers did something Bruins could NEVER DO.. and that is BEAT Montreal in a sweep in the playoffs... and Wayne has 4 Stanley Cups.
nobody had three speeds in their skating not to mention he was not afraid to block shots or drop the gloves greastest hockey player ever if his knees diddt go he,d hv more records plus he had no body guards like gretzky BOBBY ORR IS AND ALWALYS BE THE GREATEST....
bobby orr was the best of all time.bobby orr was hands down the greatest superstar in any sport.better than mochael jordan,babe ruth,jim thorpe because hockey takes the most talent to play.gretzky only scored a lot of points.orr could skate circles around gretzky or anyone else for that matter.most of the idiots who say gretzky's better have never seen orr play.anyone who says gretzky was better than orr is a moron who doesn't know anything about hockey.
+124 in a single season, enough said. Don't even need to mention all of his other accomplishments, he was the most COMPLETE player. 5 Bobby Orr's would beat 5 Wayne Gretzky's always.... Gretzky a career +518, games or so, Orr +597 in only 657 games. He played point on the powerplay, killed penalties like nobody else ever has, ALWAYS stuck up for his teammates and didn't back down. Ya gretzky has the massive ammount of points, but Orr has EVERYTHING else. Complete player who excelled at the game
@hockeyguy38 5 Brodeurs would beat 5 Orrs, but that proves nothing. Feel free to compare both players +/- after 657 games... Gretzky was also on both special teams (seen the shorthanded goal against Vernon?). Gretzky was far less physical than Orr, but would he have benefited from playing physically? His career would have been shorter, on the flip side, Orr would've lasted longer if he was less physical. Gretzky is the greatest, and he did more for hockey than Orr did, Orr is second best though
@hellonicetomeetyou Orr was a complete player like nobody else ever has been, Gretzky is an offensive juggernaught. Being able to excel at both ends of the rinks is what makes Orr the best, Nobody else was the best offensive and defensive player when they were healthy to semi healthy, while many were known as superior offensive or defensive players; only one was the best at both, Bobby Orr. Your arguement that Gretzky did more 4hockey is true though, as he is the reason for all the cali teams.
@hockeyguy38 Orr was a defencive beast, but I hear some say d-men like Potvin were better at the back end. 4 was dominant for a decade, while 99 was dominant for 14-15 yrs and still great for the last five yrs. To put this into perspective, Bure was a superstar, but was only a beast for about 10 yrs. Gilmour and Nieuwendyk were great (on a level lower than Pavel IMO), but played for almost two decades. Dougie and Nieuwendyk are now in the HOF, while Bure still isn't.
Gordie Howe played against Orr in his prime. Gordie Howe played against Gretzky, and then watched his entire career. Gordie Howe says Orr is the best player he's ever seen.
So think about that, Gretzky people. Now...WHY does YOUR opinion matter in the face of Gordie Howe's?
Orr played in a league that was not as watered down as the one Gretzky performed in. He also played tough something that WG was not noted for. WG had protectors on the ice with him during most shifts. Orr was targeted by the opposition and did his own policing. Orr was the best hands down.
Orr completely dominated games and he often made the opposition look like children. Comparing Orr w/ Gretzky is kind of apples and oranges. Gretzky did win 4 championships and has offensive records that'll never be touched. Even if you prefer Orr (and I'm in the camp), you have to tip your cap to Gretzky. I mean one season he had 92 goals and 120 assists. That's ridiculous.
watching this... i'm hard-pressed to call Bobby Orr the best ever, but I must comment on how much better he was than everyone else... no-one could cut through so easily now... it would be a joke... in fact, if someone could score that goal now, the entire team would need to be replaced. Bobby Orr was the best ever in the sense that no-one has ever been so ahead of his time. Bobby was a player of the eighties playing in the sixties and seventies. One of the best ever. The best? perhaps.
@Ponderosa67 Orr's +124 is one of those very few records that I am absolutely no doubt 100% positive will NEVER be broken. If Gretzky couldn't do it while scoring over 200 points, no one will.
he can play both position really well but is no Gretzky good in defence he is just pure offence. orr on the other hand can body check , block shots , kill penalties and he can play offence and score goals
Most dominating player to ever play, easily. Many know him for his fantastic offensive prowess; but few know or remember that he was just as good defensively. I'm a die-hard Oiler fan, but Orr is simply the best player of all time.
gretzky was great, given. but orr? was a defensemen!!!!! apples and oranges. orr hands down the best hockey player ever to play the game. poetry in motion while dominating the ice better than anyone. before or after him. he was one of a kind. we've not seen another bobby orr in the game of hockey since.
gretzky best ever..no way...to me, his stats and records dont mean anytihng, bobby orr could do what gretzsky did, and play D....bobby skated circles around him, never seen a professional athlete dominate a game the way he did, not shaq, jordan, gretzsky, or even bolt...bobby orr was the greatest to ever play the game
Wayne's records are rediculous and will not be broken unless they play 40n4 all season. However, no hockey player (or pro athlete) will ever be that much better than Orr was when it came to their competition. He was the best by far at both ends of the ice and also ruled between the blue lines... He controlled the game. Ask any superstars, including Wayne, they will agree
Orr probably is better overall but Gretzky has more cups and 92 goals-165 assists? i know offence was king in the 80s and Orr really changed the defence position but Gretzky has more rings and i mean its not like Orr had a bad team when he was playing.
@k3llaboo orr played with old men while gretzky played with a all star team orr won 2 rings pretty much by himself as gretzky played on a allstar team going by rings messier is better then gretzky hes got 2 more rings then gretz
@StumpyClark3217 Yes he could. Hockey was so much harder back when he played. Heavier sticks, no helmet and other things but as the years go on they improve things to make the sport easier so he would definitely be way better then anyone else
@IMseanIsnowboard Sticks, skates, helmets, all correct facts. Also, goalie pads weighed 40 to 50 times what they weigh now. They were rounded, blockers were flat, gloves were small, goalies wore little to no head/face protection. A few things that must be factored into some of Orr's goals. Technology makes the game faster (as well as safer), which requires faster reaction and more skill. Orr was a great hockey player. Gretzky was "The Great One".
Orr is the greatest player of all time no question, and Gordie Howe is #2. Bobby Orr could take over a game by himself, needed no help. These guys played both ways, not just offense and needed no one to protect them from the goons, neither guy afraid to knuckle up. Orr was the "Babe Ruth" of hockey.
How many 200 Point Seasons did Bobby have? (Hint: answer is 0, and never even came close)
How many 200 Point Seasons did Gretzky have? (Hint: answer is 4)
Back in those days, the goalies had significantly less protective gear, especially on their heads, and so they were significantly more fearful of going down to makes saves. Gretzky did it all against better goaltending and faster players. Orr was great, don't get me wrong, he's the second best defensmen of all time, next to Brian Leetch =)
@vgullotta you're obviously an idiot for two reasons! greatness isn't because of how many points in a season you get. I can agree that Gretzky was good but Orr was an all around better player. you could put him anywhere on the ice and he would be able to destroy the other teams defense and offense. The second reason you're an idiot is because you said "hint" and then gave the answer! FYI a hint helps people find the answer it doesn't give it to them! but nice try!
I can only say this. Gretzky was great but overall ORR was better. You can look at stats all day long if you want, but the truth is you have to watch how they played to determine who was the better player. Orr could do anything and has killed an entire penalty by himself. Gretzky never did that! Orr was one tough bastard and would hit and that ultimately led to his demise with his knees. Record breaking is nothing Mark McGuire did that. Gretzky was great Orr is better!!!!
@gdash4,Orr has dominated the most only as a defenceman,not overall! Orr had 2 Art Ross and 3 MVP Hart wins compared to Gretzky's 10 Art Ross and 9 MVP Harts! So how can you say that Orr dominated for nearly as long? You don't know what you're talking about so spare us! Orr didn't dominate the NHL nearly as long as Gretzky and history has shown this! Gretzky HAS MORE ASSISTS THAN ANYONE ELSE HAS PTS and has dominated the game more than any other athlete has in their respective sport!
@keithd16, Looking at number of MVP's between Gretzky and Orr (9 to 3 respectively) consider 4 important commonly agreed points: (1) MVP usually to Offenseman (eg. Art Ross winner). (2) Orr's shortened career due to often underappreciated style of play (controlled game offensively / defensively, blocked shots, hits, fights, list goes on...). (3) Orr had little protection (Gretzky had Semenko and others which contributed to his longevity and points scored). (4) Gretzky - 20 seasons,Orr - 12.
@stanjin8 , You've made some fine points but I've already made mine, in case you've missed it. Gretzky DOMINATED much more and at a higher level than Orr (as great as he was). Even at Orr's best he simply didn't shatter as many records or dominate the way Gretzky had. Gretzky has dominated hockey more than any other athlete has in their respective sports...think about that!
@keithd16 your wrong gretzky wasnt even on the same planet as bobby orr bobby orr as a d man changed the way the game was played was faster better scorer better hands name one player besides orr who can win a game by himself becasue gretzky couldnt do that orr is the greatest hockey player to ever play the game if he played during gretzkys era nobody would know who wayne was if he played during the game today omg he would lead the nhl in everything
@MegaMma4life,if anyone is on another planet it's you! Orr was a better all-around player than Gretzky. However,he didn't come close offensively to Gretzky so this delusion that Orr was a better scorer is laughable! Orr didn't have the offensive records,scoring titles,MVPs that 99 has;9 Harts and 10 Art Rosses. Even if Orr had played longer he wouldn't have challenged that,his best days were behind him! If 99 never scored a single goal,he'd still be the highest point scorer in NHL history!
@keithd16 he didnt come close to what ??? he led the nhl in scoring he was better on 1 leg then everyone else on 2 bro you need to learn alittle something about #4 said by everyone to be the greatest hockey player to ever play if orr played the game today he would destroy anything anyone has ever done nobody could touch him he could skate around a whole team and score gretzky couldnt and gretzky played on stacked teams orr didnt orr won 2 cups by himself
@keithd16 big reason why people worship orr is becasue he was THE BEST EVER he could rush the puck like no one else score whenever he wanted no one could catch him no one could rush like him and no one could score on him he had a plus minus of 123 one year anyone else ever have that ??? he led the nhl in goals and points for 4 seasons as a d man he changed the way the game was played no other playing in the history of the nhl has done that gretzky couldnt shin orrs shoes
@MegaMma4life,Gretzky DOMINATED the game offensively both in the regular season and playoffs like no one else! In fact,he's done so more than anyone else has in their respective sports! He's had numerous scoring records among the 60 he holds overall,which Orr hasn't come close to touching so to say that Orr was better offensively is beyond irrational,it's insane! I believe you,like Don Cherry and too many are making a different argument,yes Orr was better overall,but he didn't DOMINATE like 99!
@keithd16 orr DOMINATED EVERYTHING HOCKEY you obviously dont know who bobby orr was he could win a game by himself gretzky couldnt orr played 9 full seasons retired his 11 season after 9 games he played 633 games and had 915 points led the nhl in scoring for 4 years like i said before if orr played during gretzkys era nobody would know who gretzky is even wayne gretzky said he cant hold a candle to bobby orr offensivly i think you have no idea who orr is
@MegaMma4life,you also have no credibility with this foolishness that Gretzky never won a game by himself! Hello? How many times as 99 scored a hot trick or 4,5,or 6 or more goals or points in a single game? The vast majority of those times his teams won decisively,whether he was with the Oilers or the Kings. That last argument I've made,with the others I've pointed out earlier clearly show that you have no clue what the hell your talking about and your poor writing structure doesn't help!
@keithd16 gretzky played on all star teams orr didnt bro your retarded gretzky wasnt even better then messier your retarded maybe you should go watch what other players say about orr you obviously dont know about this game to say gretzky was better offensivly then orr because if orr played the game today he would be the best player on the ice for both teams
@MegaMma4life,you are a certified fucking idiot! HELLO?,Gretzky holds 60 NHL records,which is itself a record for the NHL and any sport,you poor dumb bastard! He's also the highest goal,assist and point scorer in history,both in regular season and playoffs. The most mvps and scoring titles and yet you want to believe this insanity that Orr was a better scorer? Maybe in your world! I've given Orr his due,you refuse to do the same for 99. Get a clue you drunk,delusional,dimwitted dink!
@keithd16 Orr's Plus/Minus numbers are from another world. His numbers are more than twice that of Gretzky's, and three times more than Lemieux's ! You have to be a student of the game to even comprehend those numbers.....Orr was on the ice for more goals per shift than any other player---ever. He was also on the ice for the fewest number of goals scored per game against his Team. How do you measure such a mind blowing stat ?
@MegaMma4life,I'm not looking to convince you or anyone else for that matter. I'm just presenting my arguments using history. You have to score to win,and 99 has done that better than anyone else! Believe what you like,it doesn't matter to me. I've been down this road before with others and I'm tired of it. I've already made all of my points,so in the end we'll have to agree to disagree. If it makes you feel better to have the last word on here,have at it but know that it doesn't make you right!
@MegaMma4life,so many of you worship Orr is because he was a "D-man!" There's no way in hell that anyone would ever forget Gretzky if Orr had played in the same era when Orr's offensive numbers pale in comparison! Yes,Orr was a better overall than Gretzky,but again that's a different argument than the one I've made. Gretzky has dominated the game and for longer than anyone else has not only in hockey but more than anyone else in their sport! If that's not dominance,what is?
Gretzky was not an unknown coming into the NHL (he had been setting records since he was five), so coaches were ready for him (or thought they were). He still scored 92 in his 3rd season!
What about the fact that he accomplished what he did with below-average size, strength, or speed?
Even if you take away his over 900 goals, he still has more points than anyone else.
Bobby Orr was the greatest defenceman ever.
With better knees, he could have been the best, but he isn't.
Bobby Orr was clearly the best. All you have to do is watch and it is obvious. Records say alot about how great a player is but do not speak to who was the best. After all, McDonald's has sold the most hamburgers of anyone, but who would argue that their burger is the best???
any validity to the argument that hockey back in the Orr days wasn't as competitive as it is now? Correct me if I'm wrong... I just think that hockey looked much less competitive and looked slower as well. Wasn't around back then, didn't start watching hockey till the late 90's.
Bobby Orr is the greatest. I finally have a *replica* Bobby Orr jersey, 1974 away design with the "A" patch and Bruins' 50th anniversary patch. True it's not autographed (cheaper that way) but I love it. And it was cool to see him and Bobby Schulz in uniform last year for the Bruins/Flyers outoor game. If only he would consider playing an "old timers" game. I guess I can dream on.
I wonder whatever became of my Bobby Orr lunch box....
both of them would have not be super stars today... bigger better faster,
We should talk about ,,, orr was the best in his time,,, gretzky was the best in is time.. both none of them were complet player as Forsbergh, Datsyuk, Toews , Iginla etc... Ovechkin will have destroy everyone in 70-80 , he will have score over 100 goals a season , etc... etc...
@85highlander,you should relent because it comes down to DOMINANCE of the game and for how long a player has done so. Orr just didn't do so as much or for as long as #99 has. There's a reason why that number has been retired LEAGUE WIDE and Orr's #4 hasn't! Gretzky's numerous achievements showing his dominance and Eddie Shore being the 1st great dominant defenceman illustrates that there hasn't been a player like Gretzky but there has been a "complete" player like Orr!
@keithd16 Actually, Orr dominated the game for almost as many seasons as Gretzky did, as I pointed out in my last comment. Of course he couldn't have done so for as long, not with those knees. So Gretzky (and many others) had the greater career; but for any given season or five seasons, Orr's the man. I suppose it's a bit like comparing Koufax to Clemens.
@85highlander,you haven't done your homework entirely,my friend! Have you heard of a defenceman named,Eddie Shore? He didn't win the Art Ross but won the Hart 4 times(1 more than Orr!)Didn't Shore play well defensively,score,play physical and fight? Of course he did,in fact it's fair to say that he opened the door for Orr! So that proves you're wrong on saying that there hasn't been any other player as "complete" as Orr! Orr was just better offensively,not better defensively or tougher.
@keithd16 Of course Shore was one of the all-time greats, but he played more full seasons than Orr, and in a smaller league, so it's not such a big deal that he won one more Hart trophy. And frankly, Orr deserved more than just two: he was probably the most valuable player in the NHL every season from 1968-69 to 1974-75. Furthermore, he's second all-time in plus/minus, in just 657 games; the other leaders played more than twice as many games. Think about that for a second.
I'm not disputing Gretzky's limits. He was just an offensive player,but despite that he still DOMINATED THE GAME much more and for longer than Orr! Gretzky's 9 MVPs(with 8 straight),10 scoring titles(with 7 straight),all-time pts leader by far in both RS and PL's among the 60 NHL records he has,unmatched by any in hockey or any other sport! Yet,Orr was still better simply because he played a better overall game? It's not just how the game was played,but the results of that player's game!
@85highlander,it's irrelevant if Gretzky does have the record for being on ice for most goals against. As great an overall player as Orr was,he never dominated the game like Gretzky or for nearly as long. I know you don't like it,but admit this or not that's what it come down to. Many others have been good all-around players like Orr but they too never dominated the game like 99,so why would anyone think that that would make Orr the greatest simply because he played an overall better game?
@keithd16 No -- no one has been as complete a player as Bobby Orr. Please name another DEFENSEMAN who has won the ART ROSS....do you see how crazy this is....? At the same time playing a kick-ass defense and taking no prisoner physical game.
When they retroactively award a Norris trophy to Gretzky, I will relent. Orr did the impossible, and never duplicated...Art Ross caliber offense while also checking, defending, fighting, sticking up for teammates, etc.
There are other factors but it comes down to scoring. If a team doesn't score enough even if they're great defensively they usually won't win. A team that isn't great defensively but has great scoring will likely win more than not because you need to score in order to win games. Simple as that. I admit,Orr was responsible for changing the NHL into an offensive game in the 70s,continued by Gretzky in the 80s,who would've danced circles around Orr with offense,especially in that era of scoring!
You too need to take off the blinders and admit that it's not just about good overall play. There were many other players who were better than Gretzky defensively(Gainey)and toughness(Sanderson)but does that mean that they were better than 99? Hell no,yet from your criteria one would think so! It's about who did the best with what they had and who dominated with that talent. You aren't getting it. You keep saying how good all-around Orr was and he was,but that didn't make him the greatest!
I also see you haven't given me a specific reference regarding Gretzky supposedly having the record for being on the ice for most goals against. If it's true,fine,just show me a legit source where it states that. Regardless,Gretzky was still on the ice much more when goals were SCORED FOR than against,his career RS+518(4th all-time)along with all of his scoring records prove that! Even when Gretzky was on the ice for goals against most of the time he his teams would still win because of OFFENSE!
@highlander85,you're being selective yourself about Orr. I see you have no defense for Orr in the Habs/Bruins in April 8th,1971 playoff game 2 I referenced where he was on the ice for the 6 goal Habs comeback! Orr was usually excellent but wasn't the defensive god you and Don Cherry say he was when he falters in an important game like that! Orr didn't dominate the entire rink in that one! Gretzky wasn't as good defensively as Orr, but Orr was no Gretzky offensively,no one is or ever will be!
BTW,I believe in a playoff game between the Bruins and the Canadiens in the early 70's,the Habs came back with 5 straight,unanswered goals...guess who was on the ice for all 5 goals...Orr! So he wasn't perfect defensively either! Speaking of the Habs,the Bruins with Orr never beat them! Yes,Orr's won 2 scoring titles as defenceman(a great feat),but Gretzky still won 10 and won 9 MVPs to Orr's 3. Gretzky would've won even more if he had played on some better Kings and Ranger teams in the mid 90s.
Regardless,you're still making a point that I've said was irrelevant. Yes,Orr was a better 2 way player,but Gretzky was better at his talents than Orr was with his. His 60 NHL records aren't matched by anyone else not only in the NHL but in no other sport! Can Orr say the same? My point is that Gretzky dominated hockey more than anyone else and more than anyone else in any other sport! Do you think #4 would've scored as much as #99 if he were a forward? Orr certainly wasn't better offensively!
@85highlander,I'm willing to be proven wrong if you can show me a legit source where it states that Gretzky holds the overall career record for being on the ice for most goals against. Show me where one can google that source. Even if that's true,Gretzky still had FOURTEEN PLUS YEARS,including TWELVE STRAIGHT from Edmonton to LA!(He had 6 not 7 negative years,BTW)He's still 4th best in NHL history in +/- with a RS career of +518,so he was on the ice much more when goals were scored than against!
@keithd16 You can find the fact that Gretzky was on the ice at even strength for 2285 goals against on any hockey reference site. This is also a record that Gretzky holds which isn't discussed much.
If you would pull the stats out of your eyes, you would be able to evaluate the total skill sets between the two players. I don't want to denigrate Gretzky's phenomenal offensive brilliance. He was a genius offensively. It's just that he was no Bobby Orr. No one was. Orr dominated the entire rink.
We know Gretzky was on ice for 2285 g. against and on top of the career list, though it's not limited to even strength as you said. But considering the fact that the top 10 players on that list are HoFers, it doesn't seem that bad. Maybe it's because these players played a long time, were on the ice often and played on most PK.
I could also say that in Orr's last 2 full seasons, he led the Bruins in on ice goals against, he was even on the 'worst' 15 in the NHL. Argument killed.
The whole object of hockey is to put the puck in the net. Gretz did that better than anybody. Ya Orr was tougher and could hit and is the greatest Dman of all time. Orr may of been more skilled but Gretz is and will always be the smartest player ever. Bottom line is you cant compare two different positions in two different eras.
BigDumbJerk 1 week ago
bobby was the best, just sucks that he had noone really protecting him out there
IITaKeNoTeSo 1 week ago
All - Pro's play with or against (3) ERA's. 1. Players from 10-20 yrs prior. 2. Their current ERA. 3. Towards the end of their career-they play against the next ERA. Orr dominated all three. Whether is was Hull.....Bucyk.......Howe...Beliveau....LeFleur....Potvin...Robinson..Pirreault.....Martin....Clarke...Park....---Orr was head and shoulders above them all. Imagine Orr playing with today's skates and sticks, not to mention protective gear. He would be ALL WORLD. Any era.
MrTehChopper 1 week ago
I saw Orr and Gretzky's entire careers......Orr was the best ever. Defense is twice as hard as Center to play. Gretzky was AWESOME, no disrespect intended. But there are no Gretzky highlights of : Checking. Back checking. Blocking a shot. Defending a team mate in a hostile arena. (Boston vs. Philly games were BRUTAL). Stopping a 2 on 1. etc etc....Orr's PLUS / MINUS numbers are off the charts, more than twice that of Gretzky's.
MrTehChopper 1 week ago
@matt75hooper Oh, there is!
Scoclamor 2 weeks ago
THE ROCKET GREATEST PLAYER EVER!!!!
darkhorseitalia13 2 weeks ago
Just to finish my thought below. Orr was on the ice so long , naturally there were times he would seem lethargic. Then suddenly the batteries recharge and Orr explodes.
ycanada 2 weeks ago
Greatzky dominated in an era when Dennis Maruk scored 60 goals. I saw a classic 1970 All Star game recently when they were played to win-Bobby Orr was running circles around those players from the midpoint of the game to the end. Funny thing with Orr, he seemed to pace himself and just when you think he's just an average player he would drive through the entire team. I've seen half a dozen classic Boston games and there isn't one game when Orr doesn't go through the entire team at least once.
ycanada 2 weeks ago
@ycanada LOL from 78 to 87 this guy Maruk AVERAGED 30 goals a season...in the same period gretzky averaged over 60...nice try
76niro 2 weeks ago
@76niro The facts don't lie. Maruk 50 goals in 1981 and 60 in 1982. Gretzky broke records in both those years. Mike Rogers had three 100 point seasons. Who the eff is Mike Rodgers? Stastny 139 points. Nilsson 131 points. Hull 70 goals a year from 1989-1992. His father never did that and anybody who saw both players will tell you Brett was no Bobby Hull. Who does that in today's game? Who did that in 1970? Esposito from Orr. Nobody else was close.
ycanada 1 week ago
@ycanada Gretzky highest points was in 86 with 215... those 2 guys had 60 points that year...bossy one of the greats 120 points that season..perhaps they played with great players that year...Maruk played with mike gartner...As for Brett Hull...He played with Adam Oates those seasons...one of the greatest playmakers
76niro 1 week ago
To add on to it.. Orr played with heavy skate and still skated just as fast as any player in the NHL now.
ImJustMikeyG 3 weeks ago
I can't imagine anyone ever being better than Wayne Gretzky...but if you ask those who witnessed both of them first hand, they unequivocally tell you that there has never been a hockey player like Bobby Orr!
thomasjkelley 3 weeks ago
In addition to the highlights were are seeing, Orr pulled his own weight in the toughness department. He didn't need goons to protect him. He fought his own battles.
edwardhl1 4 weeks ago
Greatest player I ever saw was Bobby Orr, and I grew up a Blackhawks fan. He could skate, score, play defense, and when penalty killing hang on to the puck for as long as he wanted. He was the most complete player in history. Gretzky was great, but Bobby Orr could have played in any era and still be the best. If Gretzky played back then, he would have gotten killed. There's no way he would have scored that many goals. And Bobby Orr played DEFENSE!!!.
croation89 4 weeks ago
Gretzy was definitely great at certain things on the ice. But he can't hold a candle to the magic that was Bobby Orr.
MrCanzara 4 weeks ago
when someone tries to say gretzky is better than Orr, I challenge them. I say, ok, you take 5 gretzkys and i'll take 5 Orrs. let's play a game. same goalie at each end. obviously, half way through the first period, at least 3 gretzkys are saying," i'm not going back out there. he hits me. and there's no cement head and messier to protect me! i want my mommy!" orr, lemieux, and possibly? gretzky as a distant third! ps crosby? surely you jest
Mr4444421 1 month ago
gretzky
lordraven1980 1 month ago
Orr by a landslide. If Wayne played back then, he would have gotten his ass kicked. Not to say he wasn't a great player, but Orr changed the game forever, he had the puck, and he could skate with it all night long. Great on defense, fantastic on offense. Even better killing penalties.
croation89 1 month ago
5:23 he's going behind the net. he has to go behind the net. there is no other play but behind the net. he cuts hard in front, backhand, score. WTF!
kloner 1 month ago
Canadian? It could be anyone, im an American and my favorite player is Bob.
Builder690TV 1 month ago
A couple of things. I am Canadian, and any Canadian who knows anything about hockey knows that Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player of them all. Gretzky is the greatest scorer of all-time, but that is NOT the same thing as being the Greatest Hockey Player. Also, Wayne took US Citizenship about six years ago. Bobby Orr never has. Bobby = Canada.
Redscotter 1 month ago 2
@Redscotter honestly who cares, i mean american, Canadian, it doesn't matter if you ask me, but ya orr is that best
crispyjarvis 3 weeks ago
I get all tingly watching this. Gretzky was Great but Orr is just in a class by himself. RespeK,lol
seanmahon101 1 month ago
ORR HANDS DOWN!!!
APaulA222 1 month ago
Thanks for this post. I remembrer watch Orr play. You always knew he would be entertaining to watch and make the other team look like kids trying to catch him. His career ended early partially because Don Cherry played him 59 minutes of every hockey game, knowing that Orr was always shadowed by two enforcers on the other team every game. In my opinion, he will always be the best hockey player to ever to have laced up skates.
crashk1955 2 months ago
Music is HORRENDOUS!!!
RichYan33 2 months ago
Well folks this question is becoming irrelevant very quickly. Based on the skill level, speed and changes in the game, Sid the kid is the best player in the world and neither Orr nor Getzky would dominate the way they did in their respective eras in this much more competitive, high speed, high skill game that it is today. Sid, however is clearly distinguishing himself even at this level.
rushrules65 2 months ago
@rushrules65 Crosby can't even compare to either of them. Its sad to see you even try to compare Crosby to Orr.
DavidVillaFan2010 1 month ago
@rushrules65 Omg kid, Crosby isn't even good. The media tries to make him look good but he isn't. If you see Crosby even try to do the fancy stuff Gretzky and Orr do, he fails and slips up and causes a goal against his team. He's a poor sport, and a disgrace. Youre terrible, go kill yourself if you think you can compare Orr to Crosby.
lCustomz 1 month ago
Once again you show you know zero about hockey! You have given Canada a bad name as you show complete ignorance about the game or either of these great players.
You are a punk!
quasi1981 2 months ago
If Orr played his natural position which is CENTER, he would have been a better overall player right off the top, but if Bobby was hanging back behind the net, and his ability right in front of the net, he could have smashed every record Gretzky ever had. He was a far superior athlete, equal in his ability to make everyone around him a better player. Orr was the 4th leading scorer in points per game all time behind Gretzky, Lemieux, ?, & then Orr. Orr as a Dman had to play the point mostly.
quasi1981 2 months ago
If Orr played his natural position which is CENTER, he would have been a better overall player right off the top, but if Bobby was hanging back behind the net, and his ability right in front of the net, he would have smashed every record Gretzky ever had. He was a far superior athlete, an equal in his ability to make everyone around him a much better player. Orr was the 4th leading scorer all time behind Gretzky, Lemieux, and ?, then Orr, and Orr had to play D and be mostly at the point.
quasi1981 2 months ago
Bobby Orr...'nuff said...
beatlejim64 3 months ago 2
Its unbelievable watching these highlight reels, orr routinely draws/beats 3+ guys and either scores or passes to one of his open teammates. Setting up behind the net maybe gretzky's calling card, but Orr's has to be out-skating everyone on the ice.
meganinjadeath 3 months ago
No one should hate on Wayne but Orr was defiently the greatest of all time. +597 on one damn leg? Nobody was, is and EVER will become better than that man
chrisbat88 3 months ago
In hockey there was #4 then everybody else.Bobby Orr was the Babe Ruth of hockey,end of story.
danniidee1 3 months ago
@danniidee1 I think not, he was good but Gretzky was on an total different level, did Orr even come close to amassing the amount of points 99 did, nope, Gretzky is and will always be the GREAT ONE.
iLuvBarRefaeli 3 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli Gretzky on a totally different level??? Orr revolutionized the game. And the reason that Orr never came close to matching Gretzky's point total is that his knees gave out on him. Had he played today, with the advancements in reconstructive knee surgery, he would have played for at least 6, maybe 8 more years. And this comparison would be a moot point.
grandpavanderhof 3 months ago
@grandpavanderhof Your American, your opinion on hockey means just about as much as a talking monkey to me. Let the Canadians decide who these two great Canadians are better...mkay
iLuvBarRefaeli 3 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli Intelligent response from you, maybe you've had a few too many Labatts eh?
grandpavanderhof 3 months ago
@grandpavanderhof Go play baseball yankee
iLuvBarRefaeli 3 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli That's like saying I have no right to say whether or not Italian food taste good because I am scot/irish by birth! Just because I am an Amercian does not mean that I know nothing about hockey! I grew up in Maine, and it is just as big there as it is in Canada! Gretzky was the greatest scorer, but Orr was the best all-around, with Gordie Howe a close second.
paladin313 2 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli - Isn't it funny how the only leg a Gretzky fan has is stats, which by the way are for losers, but in points per game, Orr is 4th all time in points per game, and if you take the points scored when Orr played and increased them to fit into the same as the time period Gretzky played, the final in points per game would be 2.0 for Gretzky and 1.75 for Orr.
If Orr had played center, his NATURAL position and stayed behind the net making plays, he would have easily been his Equal.
quasi1981 2 months ago
@quasi1981 You`re American therefore your opinion on this Hockey related issue is invalid, sorry come again.
iLuvBarRefaeli 2 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli How ignorant of you to say you being a Canuck means you no more about hockey. Most players who played with both say Orr, hands down. Most fans who watched both say Orr, hands down. I bet You never saw Orr, & I bet you didn't no his natural position was center, & if you think that Orr, the 4th highest scorer in points per game, couldn't add a whole 1/4 point to tie Gretzky simply by having time to hang around the net all day as Gretz did, Ur a disgrace to Canucks. Stats R4 losers
quasi1981 2 months ago
@quasi1981 Stats are for losers yet you bark on about points per game, how ironic eh, think before you speak, and go play baseball yankee, you are boring me, and yes got news for you the average Canadian knows more about hockey than the avid American hockey fan. Thats just the way it goes.
iLuvBarRefaeli 2 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli I am not into stats but 99% Gretzky fans from CANADA all blab on and on about his stats and so you have to use them sometimes. Did you know that there are real live hockey players here in New England that play in college and the pros? Did you know that hockey is huge in Boston and they know their stuff. Gretzky was so one dimensional, and there are oh so many Orr fans from Canada. You are one of the most ignorant fans I have seen ever. You know nothing about the game at all!
quasi1981 2 months ago
@quasi1981 OMG hockey is huge in Boston, no way! guess what hockey is Huge all over Canada. Bow to your master, and enjoy that silver of yours. ! cheers!
iLuvBarRefaeli 2 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli You're an ignorant Canadian 12 year old, therefore your opinion on anything is invalid, sorry come again. You know what, just stay out.
MrEpikPenguin 2 months ago
@MrEpikPenguin You are American, therefore you are obese, have a shorter lifespan than me, live in a more dangerous land than me, have less rights than me, and play hockey worse than me. Those are all facts, you sir - are an idiot, thank you come again, or should I say Gracias, considering your basically half Mexican down there.
iLuvBarRefaeli 2 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli You sound pretty mad, a stereotypical ignorant Canadian. Why don't you go calm down with some poutine with maple syrup on it, eh? And I thought I told you to stay out?
MrEpikPenguin 2 months ago
@MrEpikPenguin Im not mad, you`re just entertaining me im having fun, and mm no lies I had poutine for lunch today, soo good, the cheese in this one was brilliant! syrup on it, ew dumb, i save the syrup for my pancakes. Stay out? umm sorry im Canadian therfore im not used to being banned from places and having my rights stripped like how the us is the only country to condemn children to life imprisonment, go play baseball yankee!
iLuvBarRefaeli 2 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli I don't like baseball, and even if I did play, I'm from Boston. :)
MrEpikPenguin 2 months ago
@MrEpikPenguin Oh okay then go play football or better yet go eat a boston cream donut lardo.
iLuvBarRefaeli 2 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli What's so bad about football? And what the hell is a Boston cream donut?
MrEpikPenguin 2 months ago
@MrEpikPenguin Boring, whistles every 5 seconds, basically the less interesting, less action packed version of its more successful brother Rugby, anyways a Boston cream donut is the official donut of Massachusetts, look it up its pretty good, they sell them at timmies!
iLuvBarRefaeli 2 months ago
Both as good as the other in my book.
TheIceman567 3 months ago
@TheIceman567 No not really, Orr could do it all, defense, offense, fight hit etc....Wayne was the greatest goal scorer but NOT a COMPLETE hockey player!! So I'd revise your book!
nahpoli 3 months ago
@nahpoli Well by saying that that mean the NHL would have to was well. See how the Great one holds every NHL record there is.
TheIceman567 3 months ago
@TheIceman567 NO!! I said he was the greatest goal scorer and he does own every OFFENSIVE record, but I said "COMPLETE PLAYER"!! and ORR was the greatest!!
nahpoli 3 months ago
@nahpoli both matched in my book
TheIceman567 3 months ago
Annnd the winnerr isss.... RYYYANNN KESSLEERR
Yulimaruli 3 months ago
Orr is the best. He did everything on ice, defense, offense, hits. He was a one-man-team, Gretz just a foward. A good foward, the best foward ever, but he didn't controlled the game like Orr did. gretzky's records are awesome, but never a defenseman will approach Bobby orr statistic's too, it's impossible.
elpuertodelacasa 3 months ago
Is that second song by stp? what is the title?
izzypop100 3 months ago
orr!
Massfilms12345 4 months ago
1:30 im really getting sick of doing this!
crispyjarvis 4 months ago
Great video. Too bad you make it almost unwatchable with the unbearably crappy music.
brownstem 4 months ago
ORR looks like me
45basement 4 months ago in playlist More videos from JohnnyStorm2007
Bobby Orr, the Greatest Eva!
ufcenforcer 4 months ago
Orr invented the Rush D or OD.Some say Gretzky invented the behind the net,but as you can see in many videos Orr was using the net while Gretzky was in diapers.To invent and change the game for ever is GREATNESS!
SsgtDimeBag 5 months ago
Gretzky: greatest all-time offensive player
Orr: greatest all-around player.
That being said, could you imagine a dream team with both Orr, Gretzky, as well as Espizito and Howe? They would be unstoppable. Think about it: you're a goalie, Orr scores on a rush, and then comes down with one of those other men. Who do you watch? Does Orr shoot? Does he deke and dump it off to Howe or Gretzky? I would love to build a sim of that team!
paladin313 5 months ago
I don't know about 5 Gretzkys vs 1 Orr, but 5 Orrs would tear up 5 Gretzkys.
ejikvkaske 5 months ago
@ejikvkaske i do 1-5 was how orr played he didnt need teamates he was that good 1 orr would tear up 5 gretzkys becasue gretzky wouldnt ever touch the puck
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
Orr was better for the game but Gretzky was better at the game
ILOVETURTLESSOMUCH 5 months ago
Gretzky brought Stanley Cups upon Stanley cups for the Oilers. His job was not to block shots, hit or backcheck. Orr is the greatest defenseman ever but overall he was not better than Gretzky, irrespective of plus or minus!
Magenta408 5 months ago
@Magenta408 no
rottenegg91 5 months ago
Bobby Orr best of the best
dave194315 5 months ago
Lemieux was also better than Gretzky,
SetaSiittio 5 months ago 2
No doubt Gretzky was an amazing point machine. After every game, he'd be all over the score board. But, it was Bobby Orr that brought you out your seat on every rush. There was never anyone like him before and he set the table for everyone to come after.
LacrosseOTown 6 months ago
Yeah, in less than ten years. Wayne re-wrote the record book AND for you idiots knocking his teram.. Oilers did something Bruins could NEVER DO.. and that is BEAT Montreal in a sweep in the playoffs... and Wayne has 4 Stanley Cups.
skaha77 6 months ago
nobody had three speeds in their skating not to mention he was not afraid to block shots or drop the gloves greastest hockey player ever if his knees diddt go he,d hv more records plus he had no body guards like gretzky BOBBY ORR IS AND ALWALYS BE THE GREATEST....
mrkoakley05 6 months ago
bobby orr was the best of all time.bobby orr was hands down the greatest superstar in any sport.better than mochael jordan,babe ruth,jim thorpe because hockey takes the most talent to play.gretzky only scored a lot of points.orr could skate circles around gretzky or anyone else for that matter.most of the idiots who say gretzky's better have never seen orr play.anyone who says gretzky was better than orr is a moron who doesn't know anything about hockey.
CinematicComics 6 months ago
+124 in a single season, enough said. Don't even need to mention all of his other accomplishments, he was the most COMPLETE player. 5 Bobby Orr's would beat 5 Wayne Gretzky's always.... Gretzky a career +518, games or so, Orr +597 in only 657 games. He played point on the powerplay, killed penalties like nobody else ever has, ALWAYS stuck up for his teammates and didn't back down. Ya gretzky has the massive ammount of points, but Orr has EVERYTHING else. Complete player who excelled at the game
hockeyguy38 6 months ago
@hockeyguy38 5 Brodeurs would beat 5 Orrs, but that proves nothing. Feel free to compare both players +/- after 657 games... Gretzky was also on both special teams (seen the shorthanded goal against Vernon?). Gretzky was far less physical than Orr, but would he have benefited from playing physically? His career would have been shorter, on the flip side, Orr would've lasted longer if he was less physical. Gretzky is the greatest, and he did more for hockey than Orr did, Orr is second best though
hellonicetomeetyou 6 months ago
@hellonicetomeetyou Orr was a complete player like nobody else ever has been, Gretzky is an offensive juggernaught. Being able to excel at both ends of the rinks is what makes Orr the best, Nobody else was the best offensive and defensive player when they were healthy to semi healthy, while many were known as superior offensive or defensive players; only one was the best at both, Bobby Orr. Your arguement that Gretzky did more 4hockey is true though, as he is the reason for all the cali teams.
hockeyguy38 6 months ago
@hockeyguy38 Orr was a defencive beast, but I hear some say d-men like Potvin were better at the back end. 4 was dominant for a decade, while 99 was dominant for 14-15 yrs and still great for the last five yrs. To put this into perspective, Bure was a superstar, but was only a beast for about 10 yrs. Gilmour and Nieuwendyk were great (on a level lower than Pavel IMO), but played for almost two decades. Dougie and Nieuwendyk are now in the HOF, while Bure still isn't.
hellonicetomeetyou 6 months ago
Gordie Howe played against Orr in his prime. Gordie Howe played against Gretzky, and then watched his entire career. Gordie Howe says Orr is the best player he's ever seen.
So think about that, Gretzky people. Now...WHY does YOUR opinion matter in the face of Gordie Howe's?
4orrcountry 6 months ago
Orr played in a league that was not as watered down as the one Gretzky performed in. He also played tough something that WG was not noted for. WG had protectors on the ice with him during most shifts. Orr was targeted by the opposition and did his own policing. Orr was the best hands down.
nibstube 6 months ago
Orr completely dominated games and he often made the opposition look like children. Comparing Orr w/ Gretzky is kind of apples and oranges. Gretzky did win 4 championships and has offensive records that'll never be touched. Even if you prefer Orr (and I'm in the camp), you have to tip your cap to Gretzky. I mean one season he had 92 goals and 120 assists. That's ridiculous.
bailinnumberguy 7 months ago
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bailinnumberguy 7 months ago
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before God said let there be light bobby said let there be God. jk
Vinny19rocks 7 months ago
orr was a though player he played when hockey was hockey it was in its prime
NiclasBergforsowns18 7 months ago
watching this... i'm hard-pressed to call Bobby Orr the best ever, but I must comment on how much better he was than everyone else... no-one could cut through so easily now... it would be a joke... in fact, if someone could score that goal now, the entire team would need to be replaced. Bobby Orr was the best ever in the sense that no-one has ever been so ahead of his time. Bobby was a player of the eighties playing in the sixties and seventies. One of the best ever. The best? perhaps.
PlateauEast 7 months ago
Bobby's +/- record of +124 still stands. Just awesome.
Ponderosa67 7 months ago
@Ponderosa67 Orr's +124 is one of those very few records that I am absolutely no doubt 100% positive will NEVER be broken. If Gretzky couldn't do it while scoring over 200 points, no one will.
Jammonstrald 7 months ago
bobby orr is the better player .
he can play both position really well but is no Gretzky good in defence he is just pure offence. orr on the other hand can body check , block shots , kill penalties and he can play offence and score goals
saku98765 7 months ago
Most dominating player to ever play, easily. Many know him for his fantastic offensive prowess; but few know or remember that he was just as good defensively. I'm a die-hard Oiler fan, but Orr is simply the best player of all time.
Mineav 7 months ago
gretzky was great, given. but orr? was a defensemen!!!!! apples and oranges. orr hands down the best hockey player ever to play the game. poetry in motion while dominating the ice better than anyone. before or after him. he was one of a kind. we've not seen another bobby orr in the game of hockey since.
reeblite 7 months ago
gretzky best ever..no way...to me, his stats and records dont mean anytihng, bobby orr could do what gretzsky did, and play D....bobby skated circles around him, never seen a professional athlete dominate a game the way he did, not shaq, jordan, gretzsky, or even bolt...bobby orr was the greatest to ever play the game
jaqua524 8 months ago 2
wow...good points.
podro1983 8 months ago
66 is the best.
Sinco1967 8 months ago
Orr could do most of anything Gretzky was capable of AND play some serious D. I love both players but Orr was the man!!
Mazzeroz 8 months ago
Wayne's records are rediculous and will not be broken unless they play 40n4 all season. However, no hockey player (or pro athlete) will ever be that much better than Orr was when it came to their competition. He was the best by far at both ends of the ice and also ruled between the blue lines... He controlled the game. Ask any superstars, including Wayne, they will agree
TheStarship93 8 months ago
orr>gretzky
coming from a 17 year old
OvechkinCCM 8 months ago
Orr probably is better overall but Gretzky has more cups and 92 goals-165 assists? i know offence was king in the 80s and Orr really changed the defence position but Gretzky has more rings and i mean its not like Orr had a bad team when he was playing.
k3llaboo 8 months ago
@k3llaboo orr played with old men while gretzky played with a all star team orr won 2 rings pretty much by himself as gretzky played on a allstar team going by rings messier is better then gretzky hes got 2 more rings then gretz
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
Not even close, Orr re-engineered the game, Gretzky merely capitalized
MidnightRambler444 8 months ago
It entertains me that you think your opinion is correct.
And as a side note, the hint thing was just a joke, but thank you for correcting my english in a post on youtube, it must mean you're smart.
vgullotta 8 months ago
It entertains me that you think your opinion is correct.
vgullotta 8 months ago
It entertains me that you think your opinion is correct.
vgullotta 8 months ago
I saw them both.
It's an undeniable fact: Orr on one leg was better than Gretzky.
rickbolger 8 months ago 2
Question: If you had a time machine and brought Bobby to today, could he play in the NHL. If yes, be top 5 in the league?
StumpyClark3217 8 months ago
@StumpyClark3217 Yes he could. Hockey was so much harder back when he played. Heavier sticks, no helmet and other things but as the years go on they improve things to make the sport easier so he would definitely be way better then anyone else
IMseanIsnowboard 8 months ago
@IMseanIsnowboard Sticks, skates, helmets, all correct facts. Also, goalie pads weighed 40 to 50 times what they weigh now. They were rounded, blockers were flat, gloves were small, goalies wore little to no head/face protection. A few things that must be factored into some of Orr's goals. Technology makes the game faster (as well as safer), which requires faster reaction and more skill. Orr was a great hockey player. Gretzky was "The Great One".
vgullotta 8 months ago
Orr is the greatest player of all time no question, and Gordie Howe is #2. Bobby Orr could take over a game by himself, needed no help. These guys played both ways, not just offense and needed no one to protect them from the goons, neither guy afraid to knuckle up. Orr was the "Babe Ruth" of hockey.
Waszma 9 months ago
You Gretzky lovers are forgetting Orr was a defensemen. Who is the only Defensemen ever to win the scoring title, Bobby Orr, nuff said
marhill77 9 months ago
@marhill77
Gretzky more assists in one season then Orr ever assembled points. nuff said
ThePresident45 7 months ago
How many 200 Point Seasons did Bobby have? (Hint: answer is 0, and never even came close)
How many 200 Point Seasons did Gretzky have? (Hint: answer is 4)
Back in those days, the goalies had significantly less protective gear, especially on their heads, and so they were significantly more fearful of going down to makes saves. Gretzky did it all against better goaltending and faster players. Orr was great, don't get me wrong, he's the second best defensmen of all time, next to Brian Leetch =)
vgullotta 9 months ago
@vgullotta you're obviously an idiot for two reasons! greatness isn't because of how many points in a season you get. I can agree that Gretzky was good but Orr was an all around better player. you could put him anywhere on the ice and he would be able to destroy the other teams defense and offense. The second reason you're an idiot is because you said "hint" and then gave the answer! FYI a hint helps people find the answer it doesn't give it to them! but nice try!
stevehynes56 9 months ago
@vgullotta Brian Leetch? yer kidding right? That's laughable!
marhill77 9 months ago
@vgullotta, I think your medication needs adjusting. Orr was the best player defensively or offensively. Take your pick.
nibstube 6 months ago
@nibstube I'll restate this for: It entertains me that you think your opinion is correct.
vgullotta 6 months ago
Search Retire-Bobby-Orrs-Number-4-throughout-the-NHL on Facebook!!
elvisnh 9 months ago
bobby orr is the best ever
thehockeymaster1231 9 months ago
I can only say this. Gretzky was great but overall ORR was better. You can look at stats all day long if you want, but the truth is you have to watch how they played to determine who was the better player. Orr could do anything and has killed an entire penalty by himself. Gretzky never did that! Orr was one tough bastard and would hit and that ultimately led to his demise with his knees. Record breaking is nothing Mark McGuire did that. Gretzky was great Orr is better!!!!
jackstyles76 9 months ago
@gdash4,Orr has dominated the most only as a defenceman,not overall! Orr had 2 Art Ross and 3 MVP Hart wins compared to Gretzky's 10 Art Ross and 9 MVP Harts! So how can you say that Orr dominated for nearly as long? You don't know what you're talking about so spare us! Orr didn't dominate the NHL nearly as long as Gretzky and history has shown this! Gretzky HAS MORE ASSISTS THAN ANYONE ELSE HAS PTS and has dominated the game more than any other athlete has in their respective sport!
keithd16 9 months ago
@keithd16, Looking at number of MVP's between Gretzky and Orr (9 to 3 respectively) consider 4 important commonly agreed points: (1) MVP usually to Offenseman (eg. Art Ross winner). (2) Orr's shortened career due to often underappreciated style of play (controlled game offensively / defensively, blocked shots, hits, fights, list goes on...). (3) Orr had little protection (Gretzky had Semenko and others which contributed to his longevity and points scored). (4) Gretzky - 20 seasons,Orr - 12.
stanjin8 7 months ago
@stanjin8 , You've made some fine points but I've already made mine, in case you've missed it. Gretzky DOMINATED much more and at a higher level than Orr (as great as he was). Even at Orr's best he simply didn't shatter as many records or dominate the way Gretzky had. Gretzky has dominated hockey more than any other athlete has in their respective sports...think about that!
keithd16 4 months ago
@keithd16 your wrong gretzky wasnt even on the same planet as bobby orr bobby orr as a d man changed the way the game was played was faster better scorer better hands name one player besides orr who can win a game by himself becasue gretzky couldnt do that orr is the greatest hockey player to ever play the game if he played during gretzkys era nobody would know who wayne was if he played during the game today omg he would lead the nhl in everything
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
@MegaMma4life,if anyone is on another planet it's you! Orr was a better all-around player than Gretzky. However,he didn't come close offensively to Gretzky so this delusion that Orr was a better scorer is laughable! Orr didn't have the offensive records,scoring titles,MVPs that 99 has;9 Harts and 10 Art Rosses. Even if Orr had played longer he wouldn't have challenged that,his best days were behind him! If 99 never scored a single goal,he'd still be the highest point scorer in NHL history!
keithd16 4 months ago
@keithd16 he didnt come close to what ??? he led the nhl in scoring he was better on 1 leg then everyone else on 2 bro you need to learn alittle something about #4 said by everyone to be the greatest hockey player to ever play if orr played the game today he would destroy anything anyone has ever done nobody could touch him he could skate around a whole team and score gretzky couldnt and gretzky played on stacked teams orr didnt orr won 2 cups by himself
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
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keithd16 4 months ago
@keithd16 big reason why people worship orr is becasue he was THE BEST EVER he could rush the puck like no one else score whenever he wanted no one could catch him no one could rush like him and no one could score on him he had a plus minus of 123 one year anyone else ever have that ??? he led the nhl in goals and points for 4 seasons as a d man he changed the way the game was played no other playing in the history of the nhl has done that gretzky couldnt shin orrs shoes
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
@MegaMma4life,Gretzky DOMINATED the game offensively both in the regular season and playoffs like no one else! In fact,he's done so more than anyone else has in their respective sports! He's had numerous scoring records among the 60 he holds overall,which Orr hasn't come close to touching so to say that Orr was better offensively is beyond irrational,it's insane! I believe you,like Don Cherry and too many are making a different argument,yes Orr was better overall,but he didn't DOMINATE like 99!
keithd16 4 months ago
@keithd16 orr DOMINATED EVERYTHING HOCKEY you obviously dont know who bobby orr was he could win a game by himself gretzky couldnt orr played 9 full seasons retired his 11 season after 9 games he played 633 games and had 915 points led the nhl in scoring for 4 years like i said before if orr played during gretzkys era nobody would know who gretzky is even wayne gretzky said he cant hold a candle to bobby orr offensivly i think you have no idea who orr is
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
@MegaMma4life,you also have no credibility with this foolishness that Gretzky never won a game by himself! Hello? How many times as 99 scored a hot trick or 4,5,or 6 or more goals or points in a single game? The vast majority of those times his teams won decisively,whether he was with the Oilers or the Kings. That last argument I've made,with the others I've pointed out earlier clearly show that you have no clue what the hell your talking about and your poor writing structure doesn't help!
keithd16 4 months ago
@keithd16 gretzky played on all star teams orr didnt bro your retarded gretzky wasnt even better then messier your retarded maybe you should go watch what other players say about orr you obviously dont know about this game to say gretzky was better offensivly then orr because if orr played the game today he would be the best player on the ice for both teams
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
@MegaMma4life,you are a certified fucking idiot! HELLO?,Gretzky holds 60 NHL records,which is itself a record for the NHL and any sport,you poor dumb bastard! He's also the highest goal,assist and point scorer in history,both in regular season and playoffs. The most mvps and scoring titles and yet you want to believe this insanity that Orr was a better scorer? Maybe in your world! I've given Orr his due,you refuse to do the same for 99. Get a clue you drunk,delusional,dimwitted dink!
keithd16 4 months ago
@MegaMma4life,now I'm done with your dumb ass so have a nice life and move on already!
keithd16 4 months ago
@keithd16 i have moved on your fucking stupid you have no idea what your talking about
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
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@keithd16 Orr's Plus/Minus numbers are from another world. His numbers are more than twice that of Gretzky's, and three times more than Lemieux's ! You have to be a student of the game to even comprehend those numbers.....Orr was on the ice for more goals per shift than any other player---ever. He was also on the ice for the fewest number of goals scored per game against his Team. How do you measure such a mind blowing stat ?
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
@keithd16 by the way orr is Only player ever to win the Norris Trophy, Art Ross Trophy, Hart Trophy, and Conn Smythe Trophy in one season
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
@keithd16 and just go watch the video legends of the game bobby orr that will make you feel fucking stupid
MegaMma4life 4 months ago
@MegaMma4life,I'm not looking to convince you or anyone else for that matter. I'm just presenting my arguments using history. You have to score to win,and 99 has done that better than anyone else! Believe what you like,it doesn't matter to me. I've been down this road before with others and I'm tired of it. I've already made all of my points,so in the end we'll have to agree to disagree. If it makes you feel better to have the last word on here,have at it but know that it doesn't make you right!
keithd16 4 months ago
@MegaMma4life,so many of you worship Orr is because he was a "D-man!" There's no way in hell that anyone would ever forget Gretzky if Orr had played in the same era when Orr's offensive numbers pale in comparison! Yes,Orr was a better overall than Gretzky,but again that's a different argument than the one I've made. Gretzky has dominated the game and for longer than anyone else has not only in hockey but more than anyone else in their sport! If that's not dominance,what is?
keithd16 4 months ago
no helmet?? crasy
IbnNero 10 months ago
Gretzky was not an unknown coming into the NHL (he had been setting records since he was five), so coaches were ready for him (or thought they were). He still scored 92 in his 3rd season!
What about the fact that he accomplished what he did with below-average size, strength, or speed?
Even if you take away his over 900 goals, he still has more points than anyone else.
Bobby Orr was the greatest defenceman ever.
With better knees, he could have been the best, but he isn't.
Wayne is.
pdowns70 10 months ago
Bobby Orr was clearly the best. All you have to do is watch and it is obvious. Records say alot about how great a player is but do not speak to who was the best. After all, McDonald's has sold the most hamburgers of anyone, but who would argue that their burger is the best???
avalanche344 10 months ago
any validity to the argument that hockey back in the Orr days wasn't as competitive as it is now? Correct me if I'm wrong... I just think that hockey looked much less competitive and looked slower as well. Wasn't around back then, didn't start watching hockey till the late 90's.
shaggydaplaya 10 months ago
Bobby Orr is the greatest. I finally have a *replica* Bobby Orr jersey, 1974 away design with the "A" patch and Bruins' 50th anniversary patch. True it's not autographed (cheaper that way) but I love it. And it was cool to see him and Bobby Schulz in uniform last year for the Bruins/Flyers outoor game. If only he would consider playing an "old timers" game. I guess I can dream on.
I wonder whatever became of my Bobby Orr lunch box....
UglySean 10 months ago
both of them would have not be super stars today... bigger better faster,
We should talk about ,,, orr was the best in his time,,, gretzky was the best in is time.. both none of them were complet player as Forsbergh, Datsyuk, Toews , Iginla etc... Ovechkin will have destroy everyone in 70-80 , he will have score over 100 goals a season , etc... etc...
KingXanthar 10 months ago
orr wud be a whole lot closer to the scoring record had he not had to retire wen he was 31
ilikehockeyandgames 10 months ago
What position did Orr play? Because there are some amazing defensive plays here, but i've always seen him as a forward.
Or did he just play everywhere? tbf he is miles ahead of everyone else in this video.
WillHapgood2 10 months ago
@WillHapgood2 Sorry. You must be young. I thought everyone knew. TECHNICALLY and OFFICIALLY he played defense.
UglySean 10 months ago
@85highlander,you should relent because it comes down to DOMINANCE of the game and for how long a player has done so. Orr just didn't do so as much or for as long as #99 has. There's a reason why that number has been retired LEAGUE WIDE and Orr's #4 hasn't! Gretzky's numerous achievements showing his dominance and Eddie Shore being the 1st great dominant defenceman illustrates that there hasn't been a player like Gretzky but there has been a "complete" player like Orr!
keithd16 11 months ago
@keithd16 Actually, Orr dominated the game for almost as many seasons as Gretzky did, as I pointed out in my last comment. Of course he couldn't have done so for as long, not with those knees. So Gretzky (and many others) had the greater career; but for any given season or five seasons, Orr's the man. I suppose it's a bit like comparing Koufax to Clemens.
gdash4 10 months ago
@85highlander,you haven't done your homework entirely,my friend! Have you heard of a defenceman named,Eddie Shore? He didn't win the Art Ross but won the Hart 4 times(1 more than Orr!)Didn't Shore play well defensively,score,play physical and fight? Of course he did,in fact it's fair to say that he opened the door for Orr! So that proves you're wrong on saying that there hasn't been any other player as "complete" as Orr! Orr was just better offensively,not better defensively or tougher.
keithd16 11 months ago
@keithd16 Of course Shore was one of the all-time greats, but he played more full seasons than Orr, and in a smaller league, so it's not such a big deal that he won one more Hart trophy. And frankly, Orr deserved more than just two: he was probably the most valuable player in the NHL every season from 1968-69 to 1974-75. Furthermore, he's second all-time in plus/minus, in just 657 games; the other leaders played more than twice as many games. Think about that for a second.
gdash4 10 months ago
I'm not disputing Gretzky's limits. He was just an offensive player,but despite that he still DOMINATED THE GAME much more and for longer than Orr! Gretzky's 9 MVPs(with 8 straight),10 scoring titles(with 7 straight),all-time pts leader by far in both RS and PL's among the 60 NHL records he has,unmatched by any in hockey or any other sport! Yet,Orr was still better simply because he played a better overall game? It's not just how the game was played,but the results of that player's game!
keithd16 11 months ago
@85highlander,it's irrelevant if Gretzky does have the record for being on ice for most goals against. As great an overall player as Orr was,he never dominated the game like Gretzky or for nearly as long. I know you don't like it,but admit this or not that's what it come down to. Many others have been good all-around players like Orr but they too never dominated the game like 99,so why would anyone think that that would make Orr the greatest simply because he played an overall better game?
keithd16 11 months ago
@keithd16 No -- no one has been as complete a player as Bobby Orr. Please name another DEFENSEMAN who has won the ART ROSS....do you see how crazy this is....? At the same time playing a kick-ass defense and taking no prisoner physical game.
When they retroactively award a Norris trophy to Gretzky, I will relent. Orr did the impossible, and never duplicated...Art Ross caliber offense while also checking, defending, fighting, sticking up for teammates, etc.
85highlander 11 months ago 35
There are other factors but it comes down to scoring. If a team doesn't score enough even if they're great defensively they usually won't win. A team that isn't great defensively but has great scoring will likely win more than not because you need to score in order to win games. Simple as that. I admit,Orr was responsible for changing the NHL into an offensive game in the 70s,continued by Gretzky in the 80s,who would've danced circles around Orr with offense,especially in that era of scoring!
keithd16 11 months ago
You too need to take off the blinders and admit that it's not just about good overall play. There were many other players who were better than Gretzky defensively(Gainey)and toughness(Sanderson)but does that mean that they were better than 99? Hell no,yet from your criteria one would think so! It's about who did the best with what they had and who dominated with that talent. You aren't getting it. You keep saying how good all-around Orr was and he was,but that didn't make him the greatest!
keithd16 11 months ago
I also see you haven't given me a specific reference regarding Gretzky supposedly having the record for being on the ice for most goals against. If it's true,fine,just show me a legit source where it states that. Regardless,Gretzky was still on the ice much more when goals were SCORED FOR than against,his career RS+518(4th all-time)along with all of his scoring records prove that! Even when Gretzky was on the ice for goals against most of the time he his teams would still win because of OFFENSE!
keithd16 11 months ago
@highlander85,you're being selective yourself about Orr. I see you have no defense for Orr in the Habs/Bruins in April 8th,1971 playoff game 2 I referenced where he was on the ice for the 6 goal Habs comeback! Orr was usually excellent but wasn't the defensive god you and Don Cherry say he was when he falters in an important game like that! Orr didn't dominate the entire rink in that one! Gretzky wasn't as good defensively as Orr, but Orr was no Gretzky offensively,no one is or ever will be!
keithd16 11 months ago
BTW,I believe in a playoff game between the Bruins and the Canadiens in the early 70's,the Habs came back with 5 straight,unanswered goals...guess who was on the ice for all 5 goals...Orr! So he wasn't perfect defensively either! Speaking of the Habs,the Bruins with Orr never beat them! Yes,Orr's won 2 scoring titles as defenceman(a great feat),but Gretzky still won 10 and won 9 MVPs to Orr's 3. Gretzky would've won even more if he had played on some better Kings and Ranger teams in the mid 90s.
keithd16 11 months ago
Regardless,you're still making a point that I've said was irrelevant. Yes,Orr was a better 2 way player,but Gretzky was better at his talents than Orr was with his. His 60 NHL records aren't matched by anyone else not only in the NHL but in no other sport! Can Orr say the same? My point is that Gretzky dominated hockey more than anyone else and more than anyone else in any other sport! Do you think #4 would've scored as much as #99 if he were a forward? Orr certainly wasn't better offensively!
keithd16 11 months ago
@85highlander,I'm willing to be proven wrong if you can show me a legit source where it states that Gretzky holds the overall career record for being on the ice for most goals against. Show me where one can google that source. Even if that's true,Gretzky still had FOURTEEN PLUS YEARS,including TWELVE STRAIGHT from Edmonton to LA!(He had 6 not 7 negative years,BTW)He's still 4th best in NHL history in +/- with a RS career of +518,so he was on the ice much more when goals were scored than against!
keithd16 11 months ago
@keithd16 You can find the fact that Gretzky was on the ice at even strength for 2285 goals against on any hockey reference site. This is also a record that Gretzky holds which isn't discussed much.
If you would pull the stats out of your eyes, you would be able to evaluate the total skill sets between the two players. I don't want to denigrate Gretzky's phenomenal offensive brilliance. He was a genius offensively. It's just that he was no Bobby Orr. No one was. Orr dominated the entire rink.
85highlander 11 months ago 6
@85highlander
We know Gretzky was on ice for 2285 g. against and on top of the career list, though it's not limited to even strength as you said. But considering the fact that the top 10 players on that list are HoFers, it doesn't seem that bad. Maybe it's because these players played a long time, were on the ice often and played on most PK.
I could also say that in Orr's last 2 full seasons, he led the Bruins in on ice goals against, he was even on the 'worst' 15 in the NHL. Argument killed.
Irato99 11 months ago