@wericification As one of the Alabama (or Tennessee) soldiers of Archer's brigade supposedly said when they saw the Iron Brigade approaching. "'Tain't no militia. It's those damned black-hatted fellows!"
@Nexus974 Been five times - seen where Reynolds fell. There is a marker there today. Reynolds was a very popular commander, who had refused the command of Union Army days before.
Do it (!) I managed 3 years ago -- on a July 3rd anniversary date. Pretty amazing.
But think a litle bit about how you'll do it. Don't just show up on the road in the middle of things . . . but think instead from what direction you first want to see the layout.
I came in onto Seminary Ridge . . . and then walked across to Cemetery Ridge in the footsteps of Pickett's Charge. What I learned from that geography . . . is that Gen. Lee must have gone temporarily insane.
Another thing with these clips, to many southerners think the civil war was or is their burden. I REALLY under the rift in the nations.....BUT it was like any other war. One side doesnt like the POLITICS of the other. to say the south was more chivalrous than the north, WELL, that is flat out wrong!
what never ceases to amaze me is how even actors in this type of film cannot pronounce the word cav-al-ry. they keep saying cal, va-ry. for Gods' sakes its CAV! NOT CAL!! i wish they would get this right. i'm surprized the director didnt yell cut and have the gen. heathe character do several takes until he got it right. maybe he did but couldnt get it right. i dont know why its so difficult to say 'cavalry' the right way. you would think professional actors would be aware of that word.
@bigblondman1 A common enough mistake as "CAL-valry" was the hill upon which Jesus was crucified. But I agree. Quite annoying. I put that up with "aks" for ask and my all-time favorite: "irregardless."
@Shafeone LOL!!! indeed. i cringe everytime i hear, irregardless. from college educated people too no less. i dont think anyone even heard of the word irrespective which is what the unaware really intend to say when the say irregardless. oh well, irrespective of that, LOL! thats all irregardless isnt it? LOL!! thanks for the positive acknowledgement.
@tenochtitlan51582 good question. without slavery as a central issue, im sure many sothern politicians would still focus on the states rights issue justifying self determination as they saw it.
@bigblondman1 Their reverance for "States' Rights" was selective. They had no problem with the draconian FEDERAL fugative slave law that usurped the power of the states in perhaps the greatest intrusion of direct federal power over the sovereignty of the states up to that point in the counrty's history. So when it came to protecting slavery, the "States' Rights" CSA crowd became quite pro-centralized authority indeed. But, of course, the war wasn't about slavery right? Right? Riiiigggghhht,
@BeachBoysJanDean1 the black hats were actually the iron brigade. made up of troops from 2nd, 6th, and 7th wisconsin, 19th indiana and later 24th michigan. they were all very brave frontline troops and suffered many casualities. they wore the black hats also called hardee hats. the rest of the first were zouaves from new york and pennsylvania. 3rd corps also had zouaves.
@bigblondman1 I'm all about the Ist Corp, ----11thPA Vols. They are very much a part of my heritage.--Westmoreland County, PA , They too, were a front line unit suffering huge casualties at 2nd Bull Run and Fredericksburg. Gettysburg was pay back time! They inflicted heavy casualties at Oak Ridge at the expense of Iverson's brigade. Sweet revenge!
@BeachBoysJanDean1 At Second Bull Run, the 17th Virginia Infantry Regiment, captured the 11th PA Infantry's National Flag. I do challenge, BG. Baxter's brigade at Gettysburg (12th Mass, 83rd NY, 97th NY and 11th PA) lost a few flags. It was very rare, that Union regimental commanders admitted to lose a flag. At Gettysburg only the 3rd Maine and 11th US Regulars admitted they lost a flag.
@rebel2276 Don't confuse Regulars with Volunteers. The 11th PA Vols were the longest serving unit from PA. From Falling Waters in 1861 to Appomattox in 1865, these boys fought in every nearly every battle in the East. Yes, they took terrible casualties at 2nd Bull Run , but they did not lose their colors at Gettysburg. They captured two Reb Battle flags late in the war and have several Medal of Honor reciprients. At Gettysburg, they also were in action at Zeiglers Grove during Picketts Charge.
@BeachBoysJanDean1 I agree with you the 11th Pennsylvania Infantry Regiment served a very long time and were not the "11th Pennsylvania Reserve Infantry Regiment". Union regimental commander rarely admitted to losing a flag, during the war. In my situation working on captured Union flags for the past 21/22 years, I hold ALL Union regiments guilty till proven beyond a doubt. The bigger the battle the more flags were captured, I have thousands of reports of flags captured, many with no owner.
@BeachBoysJanDean1 When Richmond fell in April 1865, Union soldiers found 258 Union flags. Only 58 were identified, the other 200 are lost to history. They were in the War Department and displayed, but were moved to West Point and from there, nobody knows where the old flags are. Since the ANV and AOP were very close to their capital's they would have turned in the most flags. The farther west battles were fought, few and rare flags were turned in.
@BeachBoysJanDean1 The 17th Virginia Infantry Regiment at 2nd Bull Run captured a total of Five flags. One was certainly the 11th PA's State Flag. We do not know the rest of the flags captured. So it could be another flag or guidon from the 11th PA. The 11th PA, had 40 Killed, 200 Wounded/Captured. I question the 26th NY, 25th-55th-73-75 (All Ohio), 88th PA, 90th PA, 94th NY, 12th Mass, 13th Mass, 83rd NY, 41st NY, 73rd PA, 68th NY, ETC. Any and all Union regiments in that area. (Chinn Ridge)
@rebel2276 One of those killed at 2nd Bull Run was Captain George A. Cribbs , Co. I , 11th PVI. His great great grandson is a friend of mine and is one of several guys in our Greensburg Civil War Roundtable who are direct descendents of the "Old 11th" soldiers. Veterans from that unit are buried in just about every cemetery in Westmoreland County, PA. Reanacters from the 11th are well represented.
@BeachBoysJanDean1 Very interesting, I like that those details. I had family serve in the 58th PA, 136th PA and 199th PA. I had the most family serve in the Civil War, over 200 Prouty's fought, 99% for the Union. They represented every state except, Delaware, New Jersey and New Hampshire. California, Oregon, Denver City Guards, Nebraska, 74th USCT, Mississippi Marines, etc. If there was a battle, I most likely had a family member in it. About 25% were from Massachusetts.
@BeachBoysJanDean1 Massachusetts Infantry: 2-4-5-6-10-12-13-15-17-18-25-29-32-34-38-39-42-43-51 and 57th. 1st Massachusetts Cavalry, 1st Massachusetts Heavy Artillery (He was captured at Plymouth, NC, April 20th, 1864.) We had the most family in the American Revolution as well, they were mostly from Massachusetts. I had family fight in the French and Indian War, King James War, War of 1812, basically all wars on "American Soil".
@BeachBoysJanDean1 On my mother's side they were Vikings and in the year 911AD they were about to sack, Paris, France. The French King gave the Vikings anything they wanted and land (Normandy). After 155 years went by, those Vikings spoke French. They defeated Harold the Second at the battle of Hastings, England, in 1066AD. My great ancestor back then, Jean Proute, was given land in Shropshire County, considered Welsh land.
@BeachBoysJanDean1 Our last name during the First Crusade was "Proud", if you look up the family crest and arms, you will see "Proud" and "Prouty" are the same. The last name changed, Proud, Proudee, Proude, Proute and eventually Prouty. Now we do not know when the last name changed to "Prouty". Richard Proute landed in Plymouth Massachusetts in 1667, he was 14 years old. His son signed documents "Proute", so from 1707-1732 the last name was modified.
@rebel2276 All of our family members in the French and Indian War, American Revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan are under the last name "Prouty". Check out the "National Archives Soldier Sailor" website (It is free) and type in "Prouty".
@rebel2276 Don't confuse Regulars with Volunteers. The 11th PA Vols were the longest serving unit from PA. From Falling Waters in 1861 to Appomattox in 1865, these boys fought in every nearly every battle in the East. Yes, they took terrible casualties at 2nd Bull Run , but they did not lose their colors at Gettysburg. They captured two Reb Battle flags late in the war and have several Medal of Honor reciprients. At Gettysburg, they also were in action at Zeiglers Grove during Picketts Charge.
One of the bigs "ifs" on the ACW is Renyolds declining to accept command of the AotP just prior to Gettysburg. If he had he most likely would of persued Lee and run him to ground somewhere in Maryland. If he had the war most likely would of ended much sooner with less suffering on both sides. And perhaps some of the bitterness of the post war years eased
@mpetersen6 i think that's a pretty big IF to be stating there. plenty of great corps commanders never amounted to much as army commanders. we could say the same for hancock, or even ord. secondly, meade was not so much moving slowly as making sure to keep himself between lee and washington until the rebels concentrated. he was well aware that the confederates were spread out over a vast country where the roads were to their advantage initially.
@Putaspellonyou I agree. Just prior to Gettysburg Meade ordered some hard marching to bring the three wings of his army together. Meade had no fears of figting Lee as his letters to his wife show, but he was aware that after C-ville and especially F-burg it was best to tactically fight from the defense. Which he did. To switch from defense to offense after suffering the casualties, exhaustion and confusion of the three day battle would have tested the mettle or Reynolds as much as anyone. I
Someone needs to tell the entire story of Buford's role in this battle. It was a classic meeting engagement and his 2000 held up 10,000 or more rebs. when you visit the battlefield you can appreciate Buford's choice of ground.
The last scene with all the men around Reynold's dead body looks like they are posing for a painting. Apparently all the fighting stopped while they got into perfect position.
@Zappiss Well, it's pathetic, if that's their idea of 'inspirational'. everything about this movie is unconvincing and crass. Basically, it's boring, and made all the worse by the way the film-makers seem to be trying to say "isn't America great'. God bless america! Utter bullshit. Hey, what are those explosions - Xmas crackers?!
Heth was a personal friend of Lee's, I think he was the only officer he addressed by his first name. But even Lee knew that Heth- "Henry"- had his limitations.
I remember in 7th grade I had an english assignment about writing a short-story centered around a setting - using descriptions of the environment to help support my story. I chose to write about Gen. Buford's dismounted cavalry holding the line against Heth's infantry at the first day of Gettysburg... I got a 100 :D
@SuperHaloStarwarsFan - can you email it to me? I'm a civil war buff, as a kid i'd spend hours with Bruce Catton's books . I'd be interested in what you wrote. As a kid i'd get 100%s on my written stuff, always put my heart into it.
The movie depicts the Confederate generals and officers with the 2nd Confederate national banner (The Stainless Banner) at Gettysburg.
The fact was that other than the banners used at the Confederate Capital at Richmond and the original used to cover Stonewall Jackson's coffin as it lay in state, mass productions of the Stainless Banner and distribution of it would not happen until later on that summer. It should be the 1st National "Stars and Bars".
@darthroden More likely the only Stars and Bars might have Lee's Headquarters flag. Lee ordered soon after he took command , the battle of Sharpsburg as the exception, that all combat units carry the ANV battle flag. You are right about Jackson being drapped with the 2nd National. Most Confederate combat units in all theaters never flew the National flags, they flew battle flags of their own. Such as Hardee's flag, Van Dorn's flag, Polk's flag, D. H. Hills flag, state flags.....etc.
@ke4bss There were several Confederate Regiments at Gettysburg that still carried their "Stars and Bars" flags. Even towards the end of the war, Confederate regiments still had their "Stars and Bars" flags. I work with the top professionals on Confederate flags and they will tell you the same thing I am typing. I personally track down captured Union flags in all battles, no matter how big or small.
Google "Civil War flag message board" for any questions on the flags. Greg Biggs is the best.
@ke4bss After Howard Maddus passed away years ago, Greg Biggs is now the top vexillologist. Greg can tell you all about the Confederate flags, when and where they were made, issued and when did divisions etc receive them. That is not my department to be honest, I just track down captured Union flags. It was very rare Union regimental commanders admitted to losing a color. I always use this example: Gettysburg, only two Union regiments admitted they lost a flag. 3rd Maine and 11th US Regulars.
@ke4bss I have been working on the captured Union flags for twenty-one years. Prior to that I worked on the captured Confederate flags. The Medal of Honor was first given to Union to get them to turn in captured Confederate flags. Both governments claimed that flags did not belong to that soldier, they were government property. When Richmond fell, in April 1865, Union soldiers found 258 of their flags, only 58 could be identified, the rest....lost forever.
@ke4bss I have to read thousands of Civil War books on battles, regiments, brigades, divisions, Corps, Armies, etc. I live in Washington DC, the Library of Congress is the largest library in the world and contains the most Civil War books as well. At least 55,000 to 65,000 Civil War books have been written and published. The Official Records is a must have, I have all 128 Volumes, but save yourself a ton of money and get the CD on Ebay for 20-30 bucks.
@rebel2276 Lots of good info. Thanx. I read an article in either North South or Americas CW magazine about the most hated flag in the Confederacy being the First National. Mostly because of its resemblance to the US flag and the battlefld confusion it caused. Im not surprised that Confederate units carried their 1st Natl flags to the wars end. Soldiers had a love 4 their flags that only soldiers themselves could understand.
@ke4bss The North&South Magazine is god awful. Keith who runs the magazine does not know anything on the battles in any form of detail. The last issue on page 9/10 "Second Mississippi lost their flag at the Railroad cut, Gettysburg, July 1st, 1863". First off, the 11th MS regiment was not in the battle on July 1st. They were guarding the division wagon trains back in Cashtown, PA. Now, the 2nd MS was NOT all captured, duh, Pickett's Charge? Only Major Blair and 86 enlisted were captured.
@ke4bss Keith Poulter, just has a huge ego and many of us don't know why he does. His knowledge on battles is if Eleventh grade. He is the "Chief Editor" of his own magazine, and ever single issue from #1 (NOV 1997) I have found horrible errors. I suspected Keith was Union-Biased and sure enough ten years later he admitted it. All he does is criticize the South, Confederacy, President Davis, General Lee, etc. We have sent him emails for the past 8-10 years, asking him to drop "South" off the mag
@ke4bss If you picked up the latest North&South Magazine, Volume 13, Number 3. Turn to pages 9/10. Bill Spear wrote the horrible article, but notice, there is not one source? Not even a end note, nothing. It was good Mr. Spear did not try to list a "Source" for he would never find one. I challenge anyone to find me the 11th Mississippi Infantry Regiment on July 1st, 1863, Gettysburg. BG. Davis' Brigade, 2nd MS, 42nd MS and 55th NC.
@rebel2276 My great-great-great uncle, Private George H. Poole, Co. F, 17th Miss Inf was KIA on July 2 during Barksdale's Charge. Buried in Richmond in the common grave of remains that were later exhumed in G'burg & re-interred in Hollywood Cemetery. He joined the 17th when it first mustered & had survived every major battle to that point. I have the small Bible that he carried with him at G'burg, as well as his parole certificate after having been captured at Fredericksburg. 20 years old.
@4325air I enjoy reading people that know about their ancestors that fought in the war. Regardless, North or South, white or black. Your GGG-Uncle fought in a outstanding brigade (BG.Barksdale). They lost around half of the brigade at Gettysburg. But they would fight on at Chickamauga, East Tennessee, Wilderness, etc.
@ke4bss The major problem with "Hollywood" Civil War movies, they do not consult us and ask what type of flags, Union/Confederate were at Gettysburg. So they make the most fake flags with no bullet holes or even a slight stain. All they have to do is ask.
@darthroden I have found thousands of things "Hollywood" gets wrong in this movie. MG. Reynold's being shot by a Confederate sharpshooter with a telescope, bogus. The 20th Maine's "Bayonet Charge" bogus.
The average Joe is not going to know the difference between reality and Hollywood. I have been in this business for thirty years now, I normally live in Washington DC. My research team and I, are always at the Library of Congress and National Archives.
@northshore7x Oh I don't know that perhaps now today people don't. But any one that knows anything about Gettysburg knows about Gen Buford. Reading Killer Angels you get that sense.
Unfortunate the last good Napoleon-movie was make in 1970. And of cours there's Sharpe, but that isn' really a movie. I just got to wait and hope for the best!
when arguing about casualties, keep in mind that it was common southern practice to not report many deaths. that was intended to keep provisions flowing to the remaining men. Not that the south had good logistics, but just that it was an understandable attempt to get the pretended government to do part of its job
Yes. Longstreet did say Lee needed twice as many men. But by 1:00 on July 3 he didn't have them and that was the point. As he himself said "it is my opinion that no 15,000 men ever arrayed for battle can take that position." He was absolutely 100% correct. I am tired of Longstreet getting the blame for common sense guiding his actions at Gettysburg rather than Southern glorification of Lee the butcher those three days. If Lee could admit it was "all my fault" why can't his apologists?
@Shafeone We do not know what Lee/Longstreet said at Gettysburg, all that is known is from Longstreet's book, "Manassas to Appomattox". Of course Longstreet would write in favor of himself, it was all Lee's fault. Again, you have to put away the "Hollywood" movie. None of Lee's nor Longstreet's staff members, anyone at all, wrote anything that Longstreet said that at Gettysburg. Longstreet wrote that in 1896, Lee was dead and all the high command as well. Nobody was left to challenge Longstreet
@rebel2276 But we know what they DID at Gettysburg. We know that even on July 1 others reported that Longstreet was not optimistic. (I think it was Freemantle but maybe the Prussian adviser whose name escapes me). And we know that in mid-May Lee had agreed to fight on the tactical defense when the future battle was given. That was why Longstreet agreed to an invasion he otherwise had some reservations about undertaking. When Lee turned attacker Longstreet was horrified...he was right.
@rebel2276 WHat I WILL criticze Longstreet for was his inflexibility (stubborness) in not altering Lee's plan to allow Hood to move by the right flank as Hood had beged to do in several dispatches (not face to face as in the film). Sickles' movement off lower Cemetery Ridge and LRTop presented a solid front to McLaws and Hood rather than an in the air flank and also changed the topography to Devils Den which was broken ground. Longstreet stubbornly adhered to Lee's plan as if out of spite.
@rebel2276 Longstreet was insulted when Lee presented his plans directly to McLaws bypassing the chain of command protocol and Longstreet because Lee knew Longstreet was not game for the assault and even countermanded his Corps commander's deployments right in front of the division commanders--again Lee's actions would support Longstreet's claims that he was against staying and fighting at Gettysburg. So we DO know his feelings...Lee's end run around him confirms this.
@Shafeone Sorry for the long delay on replying back, I had to fly back to Washington DC. McLaw's had nothing to do with Pickett's charge. Lee put Longstreet in command of the July 3rd charge. McLaw's was the senior division commander but Lee passed him up on Corps promotion that went back to Antietam. It took McLaw's 48 hours to march from Harper's Ferry and A.P.Hill 9 hours. Lee never forgave McLaw's for that. Thus, McLaw's never made Corps command.
@rebel2276 I was referring to the planning on July 2. When Lee purposefully gave his instructions directly to McLaws for his dispositions facing the, as yet undiscovered, III Corps. I know McLaws wasn't involved in Pickett's Charge. Oy! There you go again. And what does your irrelevant kernel of knowledge about his Antietam performance have to do with anything other than to show you are capable of flipping through history books and typing? I doesn't impress. We all can read too. ;)
@Shafeone He knows you know that. But why waste a chance to puke out a pedantic fact for puking sake. He is proof that knowledge doesn't necessarily lead to intelligence. HIstorical discussions are not 'dueling facts' They are analysis geared towards advancing a PLAUSIBLE conclusion. Why are you wasting your obvious intellect on this Catton wannbe? That Lee's advance into PA was anything short of a disaster let alone a victory for the CSA could only be offered up by a fool. I rest my case.
@MrJeefry1 Yes you would rest your case, because you have not read much on the Pennsylvania Campaign. That is pretty clear to me. Most people are stuck on the three day battle. Because not many books were written on anything else but Gettysburg, that is what people got. You don't seem to get the overall picture, Lee went into PA to resupply is entire army. He did that, more then Sherman did in GA, Sheridan in 1864 as well.
You have to read more books, other then Gettysburg.
@rebel2276 Lee went into PA because to not do so would be to surrender the initiative won at Chancellorsville. He knew that time was against the CSA and thus did he believe that a decisive defeat of the North's primary army on Northern soil would finally give the CSA that elusive political upper hand that escaped him nine months before at Antietam. Was provisioning part of it? Of course. But if you think Lee would have given up 17000 men and some of his best officers to gain booty you're mad.
@Shafeone What is it with the figure, "17,000??" I know your just coping the kid, but both of you are way off. I asked him for his source on that "17,000" figure, he won't find one. Seriously, the two of you need to read on the battle of Gettysburg for another five years and then come back on here. You're list of Confederate generals killed/wounded/captured was horribly researched.
@rebel2276 Dude are you losing your mind. I already replied thusly: Stephen Sears is quite clear is his book 'Gettysburg': "In addition to the estimated total of 5000 dead and 5445 missing the federals recorded the capture of 6802 Confederate wounded at Gettysburg. Thus some 17,250 of Lee's men--almost two-thirds of his total casualties--had to be struck off the Confederate roll as a consequence of Gettysburg." Honestly what's your problem? The South LOST. Get over it,
@rebel2276 Oh I'm sorry. Was Garnett NOT killed? Was Heth NOT wounded? Did Pettigrew live to a ripe old age and I missed that? DId Pender come out unscathed? Etc. All you do is read and then just spew out pedantic facts that are irrelevant (I am aware for example that Jackson did not die on the field at Cville but of pneumonia several days afterwards. BUT unlike you, I will still say he was "killed at Cville" because that's where he received the wounds. He was a casualty of that battle.)
@rebel2276 The easiest thing in the world is to find a list of CSA general officers killed/wounded/captured at Gettysburg. And yeah I can read the exact death dates. But its unimportant. What matters is that as a result of the PA campaign Lee lost 17,000 of his men forever (Sears) and many of his best fighting genls with nothing to show for it but some booty and one month of relief for the fields of VA. A 'victory' in your bizarro world. But you're not an historian. You're a stenographer.
@Shafeone "You're not an Historian. You're a stenographer" Hey that's my line? LOL You see Shafeone? He's pissing you off too now. He's such and obvious Catton/Freeman/Foote/McPherson wannabe. Your analysis was horrible because you didn't look up and puke out the dates of death? Who the f**k cares if Pettigrew was killed instantly at Falling Waters or died of wounds days later?? This guy is an utter moron.
@MrJeefry1 I don't claim to be anything, but I do know for sure, neither of you idiots know jack shit on Gettysburg or the Civil War. Who cares about Pettigrew at Falling Waters? It's call history, you keep screwing that up. lol
@rebel2276 Yeah. Tell me about Lee's "victory" in Pennsylvania again Reb? Still sticking to that one? LOL. (Don't deny it...I'll just quote you again.)
@Shafeone It's bad enough you don't know anything on the three day battle of Gettysburg, so I don't expect you to know what Lee's Army did, two weeks in Pennsylvania. Historians have judged Lee won the Pennsylvania Campaign and tactically lost Gettysburg. That is what they have wrote, go complain to them. I am going to pay attention to them, then some non-reading amateur.
@rebel2276 Ok. So name these historians so I may go complain to them. And no, Reb, YOU wrote that. That was YOUR contention. Don't weasel out now because you actually came across someone who knows the subject as well as you do and calls you out on your lost cause revisionist b.s. Or is that what you do? You just parrot the lines of others that jibe with your ignorant Lee worship? Do YOU think it was a 'strategic victory'? Maybe you should 'research' who you're talking to next time you hack.
@Shafeone I don't have any Civil War books out yet, so certainly I have not wrote that. I typed several times, "That Historians have judged that strategically Lee won the Pennsylvania Campaign, and tactically lost the battle of Gettysburg." What it comes down to, it's bad enough you don't know much about Gettysburg or any other major battles, thus you don't read enough. Since I have known you on here for the past year, you just type about Gettysburg or Malvern Hill. Union-Biased much?
@rebel2276 Simple question Reb. WHAT HISTORIANS are you citing who claim that "strategically Lee won the battle of Gettysburg"? NAME THEM AND THEIR WORKS.
@rebel2276 "Or any other major battles." Oh you mean I don't collect a stack of books before going online that I can thumb through and type up pedantic factoids on youtube and pass myself off an 'expert' while not having a clue as to even who won the war or what it was about because I am a hopeless biased fool - unless your handle 'Reb2276" denotes some sort of non-bias that only a man who believes Lee won the PA campaign could offer up as reality? Guilty as charged.
@Shafeone You have to read what both sides wrote, 97% of Civil War buffs, read all the good stuff about their side and the bad stuff on the other side. When I first got into the Civil War, I read everything on the Union. I was told the Union were the "Good Guys" and thus I did not want to read about the "Bad Guys". Then I started to read on the Confederates and realized that the US. Government certainly has mislead and covered up a ton of things during the war.
@rebel2276 You're confusing me with a first grader I think. But thanks for the condescension. How's that list of 'historians' whom you cite (since, er, it's not YOUR theory) who claim that "strategically Lee won the battle of Gettysburg." I'm dying to read their analysis.
@rebel2276 Seriously just go back to the Library of Congress and catalogue battle flags. Let serious scholars and historians discuss the implications of the campaigns and there impact on the war. If, once in a while, you feel the need to inject such important facts as how many bullet holes are in the battle flag of the 13th Alabama by all means. We'll look at you and go "okaaay that's interesting...I guess. Anyway..." You are a Southern apologist masquerading as an "historian". Sorry mate.
@Shafeone Oh really? How about you take another Twenty years and read more on Gettysburg and then get back with me. It's bad enough you don't even know much about Gettysburg, dare I even ask about any other battles? You yourself claimed you did not even know about the battle of Chickmauga.
I don't claim to be a "Historian", sorry mate. But one thing is for sure, I know more about the Civil War then you two idiots will ever know.
@rebel2276 LOL. It only takes 20 seconds to figure who won. Go away. Go back to the LOC and lose yourself in useless unnecessary minutia and mistake that for "knowledge".
@Shafeone I have more "Knowledge" on the Civil War, then you will ever have in your life time. Damn you don't even know any other battles other then Gettysburg. Should we get into fine details on Shiloh, Murfreesboro, Chickamauga, Vicksburg, Petersburg, 1st and 2nd Bull Run? Please reply on those battles in fine detail, I can't wait. lol
@rebel2276 This talk is about Gettysburg. And quite frankly why discuss them with a man who is so insane he claims with a straight face that Lee "won the PA campaign." I know the battles in the East better. That is my passion. But the odds are I know who WON the battles in the West too. After all, the greatest general of the war, Grant, fought there.
@rebel2276 Shafeone sourced it already you putz. TWICE. Thanks Shafeone. I knew the figure was 17k but couldn't remember where I'd heard it. Don't think it was Sears but he confirmed it. This is the part where Rebm backed into a corner, claims that his "research" at the LOC shows that Lee only lost...blah blah blah. Yeah, and we can read all about it in one of Reb's published books. Oh right he doesn't have any. (By the way, have you figured out yet that he's NOT in the military yet?)
@MrJeefry1 Lee lost around 23,000 men not "17,000" at Gettysburg. Damn you can't even get that right?? Read a few Gettysburg books from different authors and let me know if just one of them, claimed Lee lost "17,000" men at Gettysburg.
@rebel2276 Wow. You really are senile aren't you? For the THIRD time now: "In addition to the estimated total 5000 dead and the 5445 missing, the Federals recorded the capture of 6802 Confederate wounded at Gettysburg--men found on the field, or left behind too badly injured to join the retreat. Thus some 17250 of Lee's men-almost 2/3 of his total casualties--had to be struck off the Confedrate rolls as a consequence of Gettysbrug." ('Gettysburg' Stephen W. Sears pg. 498.) Nice victory. LOL
@rebel2276 I understand Longstreet's dismay. Here he was under the impression that Lee would take the strategic offensive but when battle was joined use defensive tactics. Take up a line of defense possibly between them and DC or on PA soil and force Hooker/Meade to assail their lines and be routed as at Fredericksburg. He knew his army was outnumbered and that military dicta compels defense when that is the case. When Lee went full attack mode Longstreet was, justifiably, horrified.
@rebel2276 What does your puking out of totally IRRELEVANT opinion about McLaws from ten months earlier have to do at all with the subject matter? It doesn't. All it does is show that you like read, type and send ANY information you come across no matter how off-topic in a lame attempt to establish "historian" bona fides. Historians ANALYZE and advance sensible narratives when the data warrant them. They don't just puke out inane facts. You are not an historian. You're a clerk.
@rebel2276 Do you honestly contend that the Pennsylvania Campaign was a 'Victory" for Lee and the Confederacy? It is hard to take you seriously (regardless of how many books you can quote) when you come to such conclusions based on your "research."
@MrJeefry1 Yes, the Pennsylvania Campaign was a victory for Lee. Lee resupplied his entire army and kept it alive. Lee tactically lost the battle of Gettysburg. I personally don't care if you take me seriously, your some arrogant little 21 year old kid with what 5 years of experience? Damn do I need to spank you for round two? You did not even know the tactical situation at Falling Waters. Usually I am in Afghanistan where I have a total of three books with me.
@rebel2276 "Yes the PA campaign was a victory for Lee." LOL. You're just an old frustrated Reb ain't ya? (Keep thinking I'm 25. I'll keep thinking you're an utter moron to make such a claim. Do tell, was part of Lee's plan to lose 17,000 of his best men and among his most seasoned officers in exchange for his provisions. As I say. You, sir, are an utter moron on two counts: 1) you think because you puke data it passes for anaylsis....and 2 you presume to know a posters age. Utter fool.
@MrJeefry1 Opps I am not even from the South, lol. But thank you for the attempt of the stereotype of my screen name. :D 25? lol It would not matter if you were 35, 45, 105, you still would not know shit about the Civil War. Please list your source where you read that Lee lost "17,000" at Gettysburg. It's not my opinion, but many historians have written that. "Strategically, Lee won the Pennsylvania Campaign and tactically lost the battle of Gettysburg."
@rebel2276 Not sure his source Reb but Sears is quite clear is his book 'Gettysburg': "In addition to the estimated total of 5000 dead and 5445 missing the federals recorded the capture of 6802 Confederate wounded at Gettysburg. Thus some 17,250 of Lee's men--almost two-thirds of his total casualties--had to be struck off the Confederate roll as a consequence of Gettysburg." That's one hell of a "victory" there Reb. I would love to 'lose' a campaign that way! You're all wet. Admit it.
@MrJeefry1 You can type all the shit you need to, this is about the best we are going to read from you. Anytime you want to challenge me on the Civil War, I am ready. It does not matter if I am in Washington DC or Afghanistan. You keep typing "Puke Data", but I don't see you typing anything on the war. You got spanked on Falling Waters, so I am all ready for round 2, 10, 50, 100.
@rebel2276 Not sure I see you spanking anyone Reb. (Which DOES imply southern sympathy regardless of your birthplace don't you agree? Honestly, if your knowledge leads you to conclude that the Gettysburg Campaign was anything but a disaster for Lee, all the data in the world is useless. How did you spank him on Falling Waters? A rear action that cost Lee YET ANOTHER excellent general in the form of Pettigrew (yeah yeah he died a few days later. WHATEVER!)
@rebel2276 Damage to the officer corps was severe as well. I CORPS KIA: Barksdale, Semmes, Garnett, Armistead. Wounded: Hood, Robertson, Tige Anderson, POW: Kemper. II CORPS KIA: Avery, John M. Jones; III CORPS KIA: Pender, Pettigrew, MArshall. Wounded: Heth, Fry, Scales, Lowrence, POW: Trimble Archer. That's some 'victory'. You've lost your mind. LOL.
@Shafeone Did I EVER say it was a VICTORY?? NO. Historian's wrote that Lee "Strategically won the Pennsylvania campaign and tactically lost the battle of Gettysburg." That is what THEY wrote. It is NOT my opinion. Are we clear on that?
@rebel2276 Reb, what the hell's wrong with you? You're reply to Jeeffry wh asked you point blank if your contention was that the PA campiagn was a victory was and I quote: "Yes, the Pennsylvania Campaign was a victory for Lee." YOUR words. You did not predicate it with "historians say..." Are you daft or something? And by the way, what 'historians' are you referring to? I'm curious.
@Shafeone BG Semmes died on 10 July, 1863. BG Barksdale died the next day 3 July, 1863. BG. Armistead died on 5 July, 1863. Colonel Avery died on 3 July, 1863. BG. Jones was only wounded, he was killed at the battle of the Wilderness. MG Pender was mortally wounded and died from infection on 18 July, 1863. BG Pettigrew was mortally wounded at Falling Waters, on 14 July, 1863, he died on 17 July, 1863. Colonel Birkett D. Fry was wounded and captured. BG Scales was only wounded, 1 July, 1863.
@rebel2276 There you go again. What is the point of relaying the trivia other than to show that, like all of us, you can read? (Fry was a reg. l commander...I cited just brigadiers and division commanders). I honestly don't know what you're trying to prove It is quite pedantic and condescending. IJust giving you some advice. It's a turn-off. I have all that info as well. Anyone can access it. The point, as you must concede is that this campaign seriously damaged the ANVA command system.
@rebel2276 So Reb. Are you saying that these men then were NOT casualties of the Gettysburg campaign because what, they weren't killed instantly like Reynolds but lingered before succumbing to their wounds? Are you for real with that? What is your point besides showing that you can read?
@MrJeefry1 There is a HUGE difference of KIA and MW. If your going to list that crap, do research, your not going to bullshit me. You need to read on the Civil War for another Twenty years, then come back on here.
@MrJeefry1 Please stop forwarding a screwed up "Casualty list". That was god awful. The only General who was "KIA" at Gettysburg was BG. Garnett. Do some research before you post something that stupid again.
@rebel2276 You're just an old fool. You are hung up on semantics like KIA-as opposed to what Reb? Died of wounds a day or two later? Who the f**k CARES? That is immaterial and you know it, making you a nit-picking psudeo-Ken Burns wannabe. If you have an issue with my casualty list, take it up with a REAL historian Stephen Sears. Like you I got my info from a source... he was mine. A published, respected, incredibly fair-minded and objective historian with no axe to grind but to tell truth.
@Shafeone I know it's frustrating for you, that you don't know much about the Civil War, or even Gettysburg. Who cares? When you two idiots typed up some stupid casualty list on Confederate generals and brigade commanders, I care then. Damn do some research before you type garbage like that. I asked you last week to type of the UNION generals and brigade commanders casualties, appears I am not going to get that. lol
Damn I flew back to Afghanistan, that gave you plenty of time to do that.
@rebel2276 I know who won. Can you say the same? LOL I make it a point not to presume who I'm chatting with. For an old man you sure are making an amateur mistake.
Apparantly 17 people's relatives ran into the "Iron Brigade"
vlotom 1 week ago
genius
joergn83 3 weeks ago
Yankkee bastards
jackasskidzify 4 weeks ago
Wisconsin is known for more than just cheese. We had one of the most badass brigades in Civil War History. The Iron Brigade.....never give up.
vlotom 1 month ago 2
@vlotom far and away the best crack troops in the army of the Potomac. Heths division ran into the wrong unit that day.
MMSMikey 2 weeks ago
@wericification Wisconsin Iron Brigade FTW, =D
vlotom 1 month ago
@wericification As one of the Alabama (or Tennessee) soldiers of Archer's brigade supposedly said when they saw the Iron Brigade approaching. "'Tain't no militia. It's those damned black-hatted fellows!"
Shafeone 1 month ago
1861-1865гг А ПО ПОЛЯМ ЖИРЕЕТ ВОРОНЬЁ-ВОЙНА ИДЁТ И НЕТ КОНЦА ЕЁ!!!
fomka39 1 month ago
hmz cute girl waiting to be discovered
lovelybaby307 2 months ago
At the end
KingRickofNorway 2 months ago
What song is this?
KingRickofNorway 2 months ago
@KingRickofNorway Fife and gun Rnady Edelman
edyoung44 1 month ago
The Iron Brigade was certainly made up of tough motherfuckers.
Crymson1 2 months ago
What is the title of the marching song that the Irong Brigade marches in to?
DerrickMAu 2 months ago
@DerrickMAu I think it's just a generic marching song.
Crymson1 2 months ago
@Crymson1 Sone thef fife and drums were playing is "Hell on the Wabash," very popular on both sides.
hoosieryank1967 1 month ago
Visiting Gettysburg is on my bucket list.
Nexus974 2 months ago
@Nexus974 Been five times - seen where Reynolds fell. There is a marker there today. Reynolds was a very popular commander, who had refused the command of Union Army days before.
Manwithamission1972 2 months ago
@Nexus974
Do it (!) I managed 3 years ago -- on a July 3rd anniversary date. Pretty amazing.
But think a litle bit about how you'll do it. Don't just show up on the road in the middle of things . . . but think instead from what direction you first want to see the layout.
I came in onto Seminary Ridge . . . and then walked across to Cemetery Ridge in the footsteps of Pickett's Charge. What I learned from that geography . . . is that Gen. Lee must have gone temporarily insane.
greenrate 2 months ago
Another thing with these clips, to many southerners think the civil war was or is their burden. I REALLY under the rift in the nations.....BUT it was like any other war. One side doesnt like the POLITICS of the other. to say the south was more chivalrous than the north, WELL, that is flat out wrong!
1987phillybilly 2 months ago
Oh god I love Pennsylvania. And I only live about an hour from Gettysburg :)
1legomaster 2 months ago
hm Cause life is a game
MollieDeliacu475 2 months ago
erm I`m good looking babe, with great sense of humor
RegineDolliedk365 3 months ago
Awful movie! SO unconvincing. Maudlin music, vomit-inducing. No sense of horror whatsoever
jegspillerpiano 3 months ago
@jegspillerpiano....Not a very happy person are ya!
1987phillybilly 3 months ago
.....all i could think about while watching this vide was....i WANT a mustache like these folks!
EternalCrappyKid 3 months ago
They really should hurry along and make the last full measure film.
LordHannigan 3 months ago
Love the Iron Brigade!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for saving the United States.
Antihippie24 3 months ago in playlist gettysburg
WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE MARCH AT THE END ???
ArmoredSaint2010 3 months ago
erm Im professional BALLET dancer. You can ask me to give you ballet show
MarthaigMorales48655 4 months ago
what never ceases to amaze me is how even actors in this type of film cannot pronounce the word cav-al-ry. they keep saying cal, va-ry. for Gods' sakes its CAV! NOT CAL!! i wish they would get this right. i'm surprized the director didnt yell cut and have the gen. heathe character do several takes until he got it right. maybe he did but couldnt get it right. i dont know why its so difficult to say 'cavalry' the right way. you would think professional actors would be aware of that word.
bigblondman1 4 months ago
@bigblondman1 A common enough mistake as "CAL-valry" was the hill upon which Jesus was crucified. But I agree. Quite annoying. I put that up with "aks" for ask and my all-time favorite: "irregardless."
Shafeone 3 months ago
@Shafeone LOL!!! indeed. i cringe everytime i hear, irregardless. from college educated people too no less. i dont think anyone even heard of the word irrespective which is what the unaware really intend to say when the say irregardless. oh well, irrespective of that, LOL! thats all irregardless isnt it? LOL!! thanks for the positive acknowledgement.
bigblondman1 3 months ago
what would happen if slavery had never happen in the United States how different would the country be?
tenochtitlan51582 4 months ago
@tenochtitlan51582 good question. without slavery as a central issue, im sure many sothern politicians would still focus on the states rights issue justifying self determination as they saw it.
bigblondman1 4 months ago
@bigblondman1 Their reverance for "States' Rights" was selective. They had no problem with the draconian FEDERAL fugative slave law that usurped the power of the states in perhaps the greatest intrusion of direct federal power over the sovereignty of the states up to that point in the counrty's history. So when it came to protecting slavery, the "States' Rights" CSA crowd became quite pro-centralized authority indeed. But, of course, the war wasn't about slavery right? Right? Riiiigggghhht,
Shafeone 3 months ago
Very emotional scene if you are a 1st Corp and General Reynolds fan . I am both. Black Hats forever !
BeachBoysJanDean1 4 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 the black hats were actually the iron brigade. made up of troops from 2nd, 6th, and 7th wisconsin, 19th indiana and later 24th michigan. they were all very brave frontline troops and suffered many casualities. they wore the black hats also called hardee hats. the rest of the first were zouaves from new york and pennsylvania. 3rd corps also had zouaves.
bigblondman1 4 months ago
@bigblondman1 I'm all about the Ist Corp, ----11thPA Vols. They are very much a part of my heritage.--Westmoreland County, PA , They too, were a front line unit suffering huge casualties at 2nd Bull Run and Fredericksburg. Gettysburg was pay back time! They inflicted heavy casualties at Oak Ridge at the expense of Iverson's brigade. Sweet revenge!
BeachBoysJanDean1 4 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 absolutely! they sure did. gen. buford saw the oppurtunity right away to seize the high ground. he was right, and it paid off.
bigblondman1 4 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 At Second Bull Run, the 17th Virginia Infantry Regiment, captured the 11th PA Infantry's National Flag. I do challenge, BG. Baxter's brigade at Gettysburg (12th Mass, 83rd NY, 97th NY and 11th PA) lost a few flags. It was very rare, that Union regimental commanders admitted to lose a flag. At Gettysburg only the 3rd Maine and 11th US Regulars admitted they lost a flag.
rebel2276 4 months ago
@rebel2276 Don't confuse Regulars with Volunteers. The 11th PA Vols were the longest serving unit from PA. From Falling Waters in 1861 to Appomattox in 1865, these boys fought in every nearly every battle in the East. Yes, they took terrible casualties at 2nd Bull Run , but they did not lose their colors at Gettysburg. They captured two Reb Battle flags late in the war and have several Medal of Honor reciprients. At Gettysburg, they also were in action at Zeiglers Grove during Picketts Charge.
BeachBoysJanDean1 4 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 I agree with you the 11th Pennsylvania Infantry Regiment served a very long time and were not the "11th Pennsylvania Reserve Infantry Regiment". Union regimental commander rarely admitted to losing a flag, during the war. In my situation working on captured Union flags for the past 21/22 years, I hold ALL Union regiments guilty till proven beyond a doubt. The bigger the battle the more flags were captured, I have thousands of reports of flags captured, many with no owner.
rebel2276 3 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 When Richmond fell in April 1865, Union soldiers found 258 Union flags. Only 58 were identified, the other 200 are lost to history. They were in the War Department and displayed, but were moved to West Point and from there, nobody knows where the old flags are. Since the ANV and AOP were very close to their capital's they would have turned in the most flags. The farther west battles were fought, few and rare flags were turned in.
rebel2276 3 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 The 17th Virginia Infantry Regiment at 2nd Bull Run captured a total of Five flags. One was certainly the 11th PA's State Flag. We do not know the rest of the flags captured. So it could be another flag or guidon from the 11th PA. The 11th PA, had 40 Killed, 200 Wounded/Captured. I question the 26th NY, 25th-55th-73-75 (All Ohio), 88th PA, 90th PA, 94th NY, 12th Mass, 13th Mass, 83rd NY, 41st NY, 73rd PA, 68th NY, ETC. Any and all Union regiments in that area. (Chinn Ridge)
rebel2276 3 months ago
@rebel2276 One of those killed at 2nd Bull Run was Captain George A. Cribbs , Co. I , 11th PVI. His great great grandson is a friend of mine and is one of several guys in our Greensburg Civil War Roundtable who are direct descendents of the "Old 11th" soldiers. Veterans from that unit are buried in just about every cemetery in Westmoreland County, PA. Reanacters from the 11th are well represented.
BeachBoysJanDean1 3 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 Very interesting, I like that those details. I had family serve in the 58th PA, 136th PA and 199th PA. I had the most family serve in the Civil War, over 200 Prouty's fought, 99% for the Union. They represented every state except, Delaware, New Jersey and New Hampshire. California, Oregon, Denver City Guards, Nebraska, 74th USCT, Mississippi Marines, etc. If there was a battle, I most likely had a family member in it. About 25% were from Massachusetts.
rebel2276 3 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 Massachusetts Infantry: 2-4-5-6-10-12-13-15-17-18-25-29-32-34-38-39-42-43-51 and 57th. 1st Massachusetts Cavalry, 1st Massachusetts Heavy Artillery (He was captured at Plymouth, NC, April 20th, 1864.) We had the most family in the American Revolution as well, they were mostly from Massachusetts. I had family fight in the French and Indian War, King James War, War of 1812, basically all wars on "American Soil".
rebel2276 3 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 On my mother's side they were Vikings and in the year 911AD they were about to sack, Paris, France. The French King gave the Vikings anything they wanted and land (Normandy). After 155 years went by, those Vikings spoke French. They defeated Harold the Second at the battle of Hastings, England, in 1066AD. My great ancestor back then, Jean Proute, was given land in Shropshire County, considered Welsh land.
rebel2276 3 months ago
@BeachBoysJanDean1 Our last name during the First Crusade was "Proud", if you look up the family crest and arms, you will see "Proud" and "Prouty" are the same. The last name changed, Proud, Proudee, Proude, Proute and eventually Prouty. Now we do not know when the last name changed to "Prouty". Richard Proute landed in Plymouth Massachusetts in 1667, he was 14 years old. His son signed documents "Proute", so from 1707-1732 the last name was modified.
rebel2276 3 months ago
@rebel2276 All of our family members in the French and Indian War, American Revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan are under the last name "Prouty". Check out the "National Archives Soldier Sailor" website (It is free) and type in "Prouty".
Have a good day.
rebel2276 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rebel2276 Don't confuse Regulars with Volunteers. The 11th PA Vols were the longest serving unit from PA. From Falling Waters in 1861 to Appomattox in 1865, these boys fought in every nearly every battle in the East. Yes, they took terrible casualties at 2nd Bull Run , but they did not lose their colors at Gettysburg. They captured two Reb Battle flags late in the war and have several Medal of Honor reciprients. At Gettysburg, they also were in action at Zeiglers Grove during Picketts Charge.
BeachBoysJanDean1 4 months ago
Save Civil War Battle Fields we may need them again if Perry gets elected President.
mosquito103 4 months ago
:43 lol might want to get off those horses...I don't think it is possible for those rebels to miss.
Harvest8888 4 months ago
One of the bigs "ifs" on the ACW is Renyolds declining to accept command of the AotP just prior to Gettysburg. If he had he most likely would of persued Lee and run him to ground somewhere in Maryland. If he had the war most likely would of ended much sooner with less suffering on both sides. And perhaps some of the bitterness of the post war years eased
mpetersen6 5 months ago
@mpetersen6 i think that's a pretty big IF to be stating there. plenty of great corps commanders never amounted to much as army commanders. we could say the same for hancock, or even ord. secondly, meade was not so much moving slowly as making sure to keep himself between lee and washington until the rebels concentrated. he was well aware that the confederates were spread out over a vast country where the roads were to their advantage initially.
Putaspellonyou 5 months ago
@Putaspellonyou I agree. Just prior to Gettysburg Meade ordered some hard marching to bring the three wings of his army together. Meade had no fears of figting Lee as his letters to his wife show, but he was aware that after C-ville and especially F-burg it was best to tactically fight from the defense. Which he did. To switch from defense to offense after suffering the casualties, exhaustion and confusion of the three day battle would have tested the mettle or Reynolds as much as anyone. I
Shafeone 3 months ago
At 19 seconds the courier salutes, at 22 seconds he salutes again. Once is enough son.
pvtvice 5 months ago
Someone needs to tell the entire story of Buford's role in this battle. It was a classic meeting engagement and his 2000 held up 10,000 or more rebs. when you visit the battlefield you can appreciate Buford's choice of ground.
ahrensfox36 5 months ago
what is the tune at 6:40 ?
aspdenmark 5 months ago
@aspdenmark Hell on the Wabash. There is a very good version of the tune on youtube, just type it in.
ViccardXViccc 5 months ago
@ViccardXViccc thanks! I cant seem to find a version that is a tight as this one on youtube though :(
aspdenmark 5 months ago
The last scene with all the men around Reynold's dead body looks like they are posing for a painting. Apparently all the fighting stopped while they got into perfect position.
KnightOwl2006 5 months ago 4
@KnightOwl2006 In the dvd commentary track it is mentioned that the scene was actually imitating a painting by Don Troiani of Reynolds' death.
Zappiss 5 months ago 15
@Zappiss Interesting. Thanks for the info.
KnightOwl2006 5 months ago
@Zappiss Well, it's pathetic, if that's their idea of 'inspirational'. everything about this movie is unconvincing and crass. Basically, it's boring, and made all the worse by the way the film-makers seem to be trying to say "isn't America great'. God bless america! Utter bullshit. Hey, what are those explosions - Xmas crackers?!
jegspillerpiano 3 months ago
@KnightOwl2006 Also going with Zappiss there WERE other men fighting and those were the reserves who were around Reynolds
TheJonvonn 5 months ago
@KnightOwl2006 What was going on was only skirmishing between a limited number of troops on each side.
Crymson1 2 months ago
@Athanasiev CALIFORNIA
monkeynuts76 5 months ago
Heth was a personal friend of Lee's, I think he was the only officer he addressed by his first name. But even Lee knew that Heth- "Henry"- had his limitations.
althesmith 6 months ago
biggest battle in civil war and union finally won
:/ wierd
NoobSnoopy 6 months ago
I remember in 7th grade I had an english assignment about writing a short-story centered around a setting - using descriptions of the environment to help support my story. I chose to write about Gen. Buford's dismounted cavalry holding the line against Heth's infantry at the first day of Gettysburg... I got a 100 :D
SuperHaloStarwarsFan 6 months ago
@SuperHaloStarwarsFan - can you email it to me? I'm a civil war buff, as a kid i'd spend hours with Bruce Catton's books . I'd be interested in what you wrote. As a kid i'd get 100%s on my written stuff, always put my heart into it.
decimated550 6 months ago
There is another inconsistency here.
The movie depicts the Confederate generals and officers with the 2nd Confederate national banner (The Stainless Banner) at Gettysburg.
The fact was that other than the banners used at the Confederate Capital at Richmond and the original used to cover Stonewall Jackson's coffin as it lay in state, mass productions of the Stainless Banner and distribution of it would not happen until later on that summer. It should be the 1st National "Stars and Bars".
darthroden 6 months ago
@darthroden More likely the only Stars and Bars might have Lee's Headquarters flag. Lee ordered soon after he took command , the battle of Sharpsburg as the exception, that all combat units carry the ANV battle flag. You are right about Jackson being drapped with the 2nd National. Most Confederate combat units in all theaters never flew the National flags, they flew battle flags of their own. Such as Hardee's flag, Van Dorn's flag, Polk's flag, D. H. Hills flag, state flags.....etc.
ke4bss 6 months ago
@ke4bss There were several Confederate Regiments at Gettysburg that still carried their "Stars and Bars" flags. Even towards the end of the war, Confederate regiments still had their "Stars and Bars" flags. I work with the top professionals on Confederate flags and they will tell you the same thing I am typing. I personally track down captured Union flags in all battles, no matter how big or small.
Google "Civil War flag message board" for any questions on the flags. Greg Biggs is the best.
rebel2276 5 months ago
@rebel2276 I agree with you my man, the Stars and Bars was both hated and beloved by the Southern populas.
ke4bss 5 months ago
@ke4bss After Howard Maddus passed away years ago, Greg Biggs is now the top vexillologist. Greg can tell you all about the Confederate flags, when and where they were made, issued and when did divisions etc receive them. That is not my department to be honest, I just track down captured Union flags. It was very rare Union regimental commanders admitted to losing a color. I always use this example: Gettysburg, only two Union regiments admitted they lost a flag. 3rd Maine and 11th US Regulars.
rebel2276 5 months ago
@ke4bss I have been working on the captured Union flags for twenty-one years. Prior to that I worked on the captured Confederate flags. The Medal of Honor was first given to Union to get them to turn in captured Confederate flags. Both governments claimed that flags did not belong to that soldier, they were government property. When Richmond fell, in April 1865, Union soldiers found 258 of their flags, only 58 could be identified, the rest....lost forever.
rebel2276 5 months ago
@ke4bss I have to read thousands of Civil War books on battles, regiments, brigades, divisions, Corps, Armies, etc. I live in Washington DC, the Library of Congress is the largest library in the world and contains the most Civil War books as well. At least 55,000 to 65,000 Civil War books have been written and published. The Official Records is a must have, I have all 128 Volumes, but save yourself a ton of money and get the CD on Ebay for 20-30 bucks.
Have a great weekend, Ke4bss!
rebel2276 5 months ago
@rebel2276 Lots of good info. Thanx. I read an article in either North South or Americas CW magazine about the most hated flag in the Confederacy being the First National. Mostly because of its resemblance to the US flag and the battlefld confusion it caused. Im not surprised that Confederate units carried their 1st Natl flags to the wars end. Soldiers had a love 4 their flags that only soldiers themselves could understand.
ke4bss 5 months ago
@ke4bss The North&South Magazine is god awful. Keith who runs the magazine does not know anything on the battles in any form of detail. The last issue on page 9/10 "Second Mississippi lost their flag at the Railroad cut, Gettysburg, July 1st, 1863". First off, the 11th MS regiment was not in the battle on July 1st. They were guarding the division wagon trains back in Cashtown, PA. Now, the 2nd MS was NOT all captured, duh, Pickett's Charge? Only Major Blair and 86 enlisted were captured.
rebel2276 4 months ago
@ke4bss Keith Poulter, just has a huge ego and many of us don't know why he does. His knowledge on battles is if Eleventh grade. He is the "Chief Editor" of his own magazine, and ever single issue from #1 (NOV 1997) I have found horrible errors. I suspected Keith was Union-Biased and sure enough ten years later he admitted it. All he does is criticize the South, Confederacy, President Davis, General Lee, etc. We have sent him emails for the past 8-10 years, asking him to drop "South" off the mag
rebel2276 4 months ago
@ke4bss If you picked up the latest North&South Magazine, Volume 13, Number 3. Turn to pages 9/10. Bill Spear wrote the horrible article, but notice, there is not one source? Not even a end note, nothing. It was good Mr. Spear did not try to list a "Source" for he would never find one. I challenge anyone to find me the 11th Mississippi Infantry Regiment on July 1st, 1863, Gettysburg. BG. Davis' Brigade, 2nd MS, 42nd MS and 55th NC.
Have a great weekend, Ke4bss!
rebel2276 4 months ago
@rebel2276 My great-great-great uncle, Private George H. Poole, Co. F, 17th Miss Inf was KIA on July 2 during Barksdale's Charge. Buried in Richmond in the common grave of remains that were later exhumed in G'burg & re-interred in Hollywood Cemetery. He joined the 17th when it first mustered & had survived every major battle to that point. I have the small Bible that he carried with him at G'burg, as well as his parole certificate after having been captured at Fredericksburg. 20 years old.
4325air 4 months ago
@4325air I enjoy reading people that know about their ancestors that fought in the war. Regardless, North or South, white or black. Your GGG-Uncle fought in a outstanding brigade (BG.Barksdale). They lost around half of the brigade at Gettysburg. But they would fight on at Chickamauga, East Tennessee, Wilderness, etc.
Thank you for the info on your ancestor!
rebel2276 4 months ago
@ke4bss The major problem with "Hollywood" Civil War movies, they do not consult us and ask what type of flags, Union/Confederate were at Gettysburg. So they make the most fake flags with no bullet holes or even a slight stain. All they have to do is ask.
rebel2276 5 months ago
@darthroden I have found thousands of things "Hollywood" gets wrong in this movie. MG. Reynold's being shot by a Confederate sharpshooter with a telescope, bogus. The 20th Maine's "Bayonet Charge" bogus.
The average Joe is not going to know the difference between reality and Hollywood. I have been in this business for thirty years now, I normally live in Washington DC. My research team and I, are always at the Library of Congress and National Archives.
Basically, we bust these myths.
rebel2276 5 months ago
148 years ago and we must never forget what those men sacrificed and accomplished on those fields.
stigmajosh 7 months ago 2
"Those people" this was actually how Lee refered to Union forces.
oneputtsteven 7 months ago
Gen Bufords dismounted calvary unit held the high ground and saved the union........not enough credit is given to Gen Buford for his stand
northshore7x 7 months ago 36
@northshore7x Good thought! I agree, so many Union heros these three day it's hard to give them all the proper credit.
oneputtsteven 7 months ago
@northshore7x Oh I don't know that perhaps now today people don't. But any one that knows anything about Gettysburg knows about Gen Buford. Reading Killer Angels you get that sense.
LordHannigan 3 months ago
but I know quite a few people who played some off the soldiers in this movie (I live in Chattanooga so the Civil War is a huge thing in town)
legoackbar 7 months ago
@legoackbar Nice. I hope to be in a good historical movie ones (I'm a Napoleonic re-enactor)
ViccardXViccc 7 months ago
@ViccardXViccc really that's rather interesting
legoackbar 7 months ago
@legoackbar Indeed ;-)
Unfortunate the last good Napoleon-movie was make in 1970. And of cours there's Sharpe, but that isn' really a movie. I just got to wait and hope for the best!
ViccardXViccc 7 months ago
BAONATES!
legoackbar 7 months ago
Great movie!!!!!
RockIslandLine513 7 months ago
type in and watch -
14th Indiana
We beat Stonewall Jackson at Kernstown and thats a fact but can we beat Taylor Swift at Billie Creek - You decide
1967mustanggta 7 months ago
Gen. Harry Heth = Gen. Foghorn Leghorn
tkin1973 7 months ago 17
@tkin1973 basically lol
TsumeBeta038 7 months ago
I like how during this whole fiasco JEB Stuart was on a joyride around southern Pennsylvania. good job JEB
tachikoma747 7 months ago 4
@tachikoma747 lol ikr
TsumeBeta038 7 months ago
lol "the boys wouldn't hold back" more like Heth wouldn't hold them back....
tachikoma747 7 months ago
Heth's nervous about having started a major confrontation against orders--blames his boys "got their dander up". 148 years ago.
Jemmer1000 7 months ago
when arguing about casualties, keep in mind that it was common southern practice to not report many deaths. that was intended to keep provisions flowing to the remaining men. Not that the south had good logistics, but just that it was an understandable attempt to get the pretended government to do part of its job
DonMeaker 8 months ago
Ya'll have it all wrong. Sturat is why Meade won at Gettysburg.
nighttrain269 8 months ago
12 people had ancestors fighting in the 11th Corps.
TigerRifle1 8 months ago
Yes. Longstreet did say Lee needed twice as many men. But by 1:00 on July 3 he didn't have them and that was the point. As he himself said "it is my opinion that no 15,000 men ever arrayed for battle can take that position." He was absolutely 100% correct. I am tired of Longstreet getting the blame for common sense guiding his actions at Gettysburg rather than Southern glorification of Lee the butcher those three days. If Lee could admit it was "all my fault" why can't his apologists?
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone We do not know what Lee/Longstreet said at Gettysburg, all that is known is from Longstreet's book, "Manassas to Appomattox". Of course Longstreet would write in favor of himself, it was all Lee's fault. Again, you have to put away the "Hollywood" movie. None of Lee's nor Longstreet's staff members, anyone at all, wrote anything that Longstreet said that at Gettysburg. Longstreet wrote that in 1896, Lee was dead and all the high command as well. Nobody was left to challenge Longstreet
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 But we know what they DID at Gettysburg. We know that even on July 1 others reported that Longstreet was not optimistic. (I think it was Freemantle but maybe the Prussian adviser whose name escapes me). And we know that in mid-May Lee had agreed to fight on the tactical defense when the future battle was given. That was why Longstreet agreed to an invasion he otherwise had some reservations about undertaking. When Lee turned attacker Longstreet was horrified...he was right.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 WHat I WILL criticze Longstreet for was his inflexibility (stubborness) in not altering Lee's plan to allow Hood to move by the right flank as Hood had beged to do in several dispatches (not face to face as in the film). Sickles' movement off lower Cemetery Ridge and LRTop presented a solid front to McLaws and Hood rather than an in the air flank and also changed the topography to Devils Den which was broken ground. Longstreet stubbornly adhered to Lee's plan as if out of spite.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Longstreet was insulted when Lee presented his plans directly to McLaws bypassing the chain of command protocol and Longstreet because Lee knew Longstreet was not game for the assault and even countermanded his Corps commander's deployments right in front of the division commanders--again Lee's actions would support Longstreet's claims that he was against staying and fighting at Gettysburg. So we DO know his feelings...Lee's end run around him confirms this.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone Sorry for the long delay on replying back, I had to fly back to Washington DC. McLaw's had nothing to do with Pickett's charge. Lee put Longstreet in command of the July 3rd charge. McLaw's was the senior division commander but Lee passed him up on Corps promotion that went back to Antietam. It took McLaw's 48 hours to march from Harper's Ferry and A.P.Hill 9 hours. Lee never forgave McLaw's for that. Thus, McLaw's never made Corps command.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 I was referring to the planning on July 2. When Lee purposefully gave his instructions directly to McLaws for his dispositions facing the, as yet undiscovered, III Corps. I know McLaws wasn't involved in Pickett's Charge. Oy! There you go again. And what does your irrelevant kernel of knowledge about his Antietam performance have to do with anything other than to show you are capable of flipping through history books and typing? I doesn't impress. We all can read too. ;)
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone He knows you know that. But why waste a chance to puke out a pedantic fact for puking sake. He is proof that knowledge doesn't necessarily lead to intelligence. HIstorical discussions are not 'dueling facts' They are analysis geared towards advancing a PLAUSIBLE conclusion. Why are you wasting your obvious intellect on this Catton wannbe? That Lee's advance into PA was anything short of a disaster let alone a victory for the CSA could only be offered up by a fool. I rest my case.
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 Yes you would rest your case, because you have not read much on the Pennsylvania Campaign. That is pretty clear to me. Most people are stuck on the three day battle. Because not many books were written on anything else but Gettysburg, that is what people got. You don't seem to get the overall picture, Lee went into PA to resupply is entire army. He did that, more then Sherman did in GA, Sheridan in 1864 as well.
You have to read more books, other then Gettysburg.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Lee went into PA because to not do so would be to surrender the initiative won at Chancellorsville. He knew that time was against the CSA and thus did he believe that a decisive defeat of the North's primary army on Northern soil would finally give the CSA that elusive political upper hand that escaped him nine months before at Antietam. Was provisioning part of it? Of course. But if you think Lee would have given up 17000 men and some of his best officers to gain booty you're mad.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone What is it with the figure, "17,000??" I know your just coping the kid, but both of you are way off. I asked him for his source on that "17,000" figure, he won't find one. Seriously, the two of you need to read on the battle of Gettysburg for another five years and then come back on here. You're list of Confederate generals killed/wounded/captured was horribly researched.
rebel2276 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rebel2276 Dude are you losing your mind. I already replied thusly: Stephen Sears is quite clear is his book 'Gettysburg': "In addition to the estimated total of 5000 dead and 5445 missing the federals recorded the capture of 6802 Confederate wounded at Gettysburg. Thus some 17,250 of Lee's men--almost two-thirds of his total casualties--had to be struck off the Confederate roll as a consequence of Gettysburg." Honestly what's your problem? The South LOST. Get over it,
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Oh I'm sorry. Was Garnett NOT killed? Was Heth NOT wounded? Did Pettigrew live to a ripe old age and I missed that? DId Pender come out unscathed? Etc. All you do is read and then just spew out pedantic facts that are irrelevant (I am aware for example that Jackson did not die on the field at Cville but of pneumonia several days afterwards. BUT unlike you, I will still say he was "killed at Cville" because that's where he received the wounds. He was a casualty of that battle.)
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 The easiest thing in the world is to find a list of CSA general officers killed/wounded/captured at Gettysburg. And yeah I can read the exact death dates. But its unimportant. What matters is that as a result of the PA campaign Lee lost 17,000 of his men forever (Sears) and many of his best fighting genls with nothing to show for it but some booty and one month of relief for the fields of VA. A 'victory' in your bizarro world. But you're not an historian. You're a stenographer.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone "You're not an Historian. You're a stenographer" Hey that's my line? LOL You see Shafeone? He's pissing you off too now. He's such and obvious Catton/Freeman/Foote/McPherson wannabe. Your analysis was horrible because you didn't look up and puke out the dates of death? Who the f**k cares if Pettigrew was killed instantly at Falling Waters or died of wounds days later?? This guy is an utter moron.
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 I don't claim to be anything, but I do know for sure, neither of you idiots know jack shit on Gettysburg or the Civil War. Who cares about Pettigrew at Falling Waters? It's call history, you keep screwing that up. lol
rebel2276 8 months ago
@Shafeone If it was that easy, then why did the two of you screw that up so bad? lol
Anything else?
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Yeah. Tell me about Lee's "victory" in Pennsylvania again Reb? Still sticking to that one? LOL. (Don't deny it...I'll just quote you again.)
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone It's bad enough you don't know anything on the three day battle of Gettysburg, so I don't expect you to know what Lee's Army did, two weeks in Pennsylvania. Historians have judged Lee won the Pennsylvania Campaign and tactically lost Gettysburg. That is what they have wrote, go complain to them. I am going to pay attention to them, then some non-reading amateur.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 I say again. I know who WON. LOL
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Ok. So name these historians so I may go complain to them. And no, Reb, YOU wrote that. That was YOUR contention. Don't weasel out now because you actually came across someone who knows the subject as well as you do and calls you out on your lost cause revisionist b.s. Or is that what you do? You just parrot the lines of others that jibe with your ignorant Lee worship? Do YOU think it was a 'strategic victory'? Maybe you should 'research' who you're talking to next time you hack.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone I don't have any Civil War books out yet, so certainly I have not wrote that. I typed several times, "That Historians have judged that strategically Lee won the Pennsylvania Campaign, and tactically lost the battle of Gettysburg." What it comes down to, it's bad enough you don't know much about Gettysburg or any other major battles, thus you don't read enough. Since I have known you on here for the past year, you just type about Gettysburg or Malvern Hill. Union-Biased much?
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Simple question Reb. WHAT HISTORIANS are you citing who claim that "strategically Lee won the battle of Gettysburg"? NAME THEM AND THEIR WORKS.
Shafeone 7 months ago
@rebel2276 "Or any other major battles." Oh you mean I don't collect a stack of books before going online that I can thumb through and type up pedantic factoids on youtube and pass myself off an 'expert' while not having a clue as to even who won the war or what it was about because I am a hopeless biased fool - unless your handle 'Reb2276" denotes some sort of non-bias that only a man who believes Lee won the PA campaign could offer up as reality? Guilty as charged.
Shafeone 7 months ago
@Shafeone You have to read what both sides wrote, 97% of Civil War buffs, read all the good stuff about their side and the bad stuff on the other side. When I first got into the Civil War, I read everything on the Union. I was told the Union were the "Good Guys" and thus I did not want to read about the "Bad Guys". Then I started to read on the Confederates and realized that the US. Government certainly has mislead and covered up a ton of things during the war.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 You're confusing me with a first grader I think. But thanks for the condescension. How's that list of 'historians' whom you cite (since, er, it's not YOUR theory) who claim that "strategically Lee won the battle of Gettysburg." I'm dying to read their analysis.
Shafeone 7 months ago
@rebel2276 Seriously just go back to the Library of Congress and catalogue battle flags. Let serious scholars and historians discuss the implications of the campaigns and there impact on the war. If, once in a while, you feel the need to inject such important facts as how many bullet holes are in the battle flag of the 13th Alabama by all means. We'll look at you and go "okaaay that's interesting...I guess. Anyway..." You are a Southern apologist masquerading as an "historian". Sorry mate.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone Oh really? How about you take another Twenty years and read more on Gettysburg and then get back with me. It's bad enough you don't even know much about Gettysburg, dare I even ask about any other battles? You yourself claimed you did not even know about the battle of Chickmauga.
I don't claim to be a "Historian", sorry mate. But one thing is for sure, I know more about the Civil War then you two idiots will ever know.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 LOL. It only takes 20 seconds to figure who won. Go away. Go back to the LOC and lose yourself in useless unnecessary minutia and mistake that for "knowledge".
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone I have more "Knowledge" on the Civil War, then you will ever have in your life time. Damn you don't even know any other battles other then Gettysburg. Should we get into fine details on Shiloh, Murfreesboro, Chickamauga, Vicksburg, Petersburg, 1st and 2nd Bull Run? Please reply on those battles in fine detail, I can't wait. lol
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 This talk is about Gettysburg. And quite frankly why discuss them with a man who is so insane he claims with a straight face that Lee "won the PA campaign." I know the battles in the East better. That is my passion. But the odds are I know who WON the battles in the West too. After all, the greatest general of the war, Grant, fought there.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Shafeone sourced it already you putz. TWICE. Thanks Shafeone. I knew the figure was 17k but couldn't remember where I'd heard it. Don't think it was Sears but he confirmed it. This is the part where Rebm backed into a corner, claims that his "research" at the LOC shows that Lee only lost...blah blah blah. Yeah, and we can read all about it in one of Reb's published books. Oh right he doesn't have any. (By the way, have you figured out yet that he's NOT in the military yet?)
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 Lee lost around 23,000 men not "17,000" at Gettysburg. Damn you can't even get that right?? Read a few Gettysburg books from different authors and let me know if just one of them, claimed Lee lost "17,000" men at Gettysburg.
Only "Putz" in here, is yourself.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 LOL. The 17,000 were permanent losses. The 23,000 were total casualties. You know this of course. Just being a senile old Reb.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone "17,000" "Permanent" losses? Please tell me your vast sources on that, I can't wait. lol
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Wow. You really are senile aren't you? For the THIRD time now: "In addition to the estimated total 5000 dead and the 5445 missing, the Federals recorded the capture of 6802 Confederate wounded at Gettysburg--men found on the field, or left behind too badly injured to join the retreat. Thus some 17250 of Lee's men-almost 2/3 of his total casualties--had to be struck off the Confedrate rolls as a consequence of Gettysbrug." ('Gettysburg' Stephen W. Sears pg. 498.) Nice victory. LOL
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 I understand Longstreet's dismay. Here he was under the impression that Lee would take the strategic offensive but when battle was joined use defensive tactics. Take up a line of defense possibly between them and DC or on PA soil and force Hooker/Meade to assail their lines and be routed as at Fredericksburg. He knew his army was outnumbered and that military dicta compels defense when that is the case. When Lee went full attack mode Longstreet was, justifiably, horrified.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 What does your puking out of totally IRRELEVANT opinion about McLaws from ten months earlier have to do at all with the subject matter? It doesn't. All it does is show that you like read, type and send ANY information you come across no matter how off-topic in a lame attempt to establish "historian" bona fides. Historians ANALYZE and advance sensible narratives when the data warrant them. They don't just puke out inane facts. You are not an historian. You're a clerk.
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 Read Safeone's post above mine before responding to me.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Do you honestly contend that the Pennsylvania Campaign was a 'Victory" for Lee and the Confederacy? It is hard to take you seriously (regardless of how many books you can quote) when you come to such conclusions based on your "research."
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 Yes, the Pennsylvania Campaign was a victory for Lee. Lee resupplied his entire army and kept it alive. Lee tactically lost the battle of Gettysburg. I personally don't care if you take me seriously, your some arrogant little 21 year old kid with what 5 years of experience? Damn do I need to spank you for round two? You did not even know the tactical situation at Falling Waters. Usually I am in Afghanistan where I have a total of three books with me.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 "Yes the PA campaign was a victory for Lee." LOL. You're just an old frustrated Reb ain't ya? (Keep thinking I'm 25. I'll keep thinking you're an utter moron to make such a claim. Do tell, was part of Lee's plan to lose 17,000 of his best men and among his most seasoned officers in exchange for his provisions. As I say. You, sir, are an utter moron on two counts: 1) you think because you puke data it passes for anaylsis....and 2 you presume to know a posters age. Utter fool.
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 Opps I am not even from the South, lol. But thank you for the attempt of the stereotype of my screen name. :D 25? lol It would not matter if you were 35, 45, 105, you still would not know shit about the Civil War. Please list your source where you read that Lee lost "17,000" at Gettysburg. It's not my opinion, but many historians have written that. "Strategically, Lee won the Pennsylvania Campaign and tactically lost the battle of Gettysburg."
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Not sure his source Reb but Sears is quite clear is his book 'Gettysburg': "In addition to the estimated total of 5000 dead and 5445 missing the federals recorded the capture of 6802 Confederate wounded at Gettysburg. Thus some 17,250 of Lee's men--almost two-thirds of his total casualties--had to be struck off the Confederate roll as a consequence of Gettysburg." That's one hell of a "victory" there Reb. I would love to 'lose' a campaign that way! You're all wet. Admit it.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 You can type all the shit you need to, this is about the best we are going to read from you. Anytime you want to challenge me on the Civil War, I am ready. It does not matter if I am in Washington DC or Afghanistan. You keep typing "Puke Data", but I don't see you typing anything on the war. You got spanked on Falling Waters, so I am all ready for round 2, 10, 50, 100.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Not sure I see you spanking anyone Reb. (Which DOES imply southern sympathy regardless of your birthplace don't you agree? Honestly, if your knowledge leads you to conclude that the Gettysburg Campaign was anything but a disaster for Lee, all the data in the world is useless. How did you spank him on Falling Waters? A rear action that cost Lee YET ANOTHER excellent general in the form of Pettigrew (yeah yeah he died a few days later. WHATEVER!)
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Damage to the officer corps was severe as well. I CORPS KIA: Barksdale, Semmes, Garnett, Armistead. Wounded: Hood, Robertson, Tige Anderson, POW: Kemper. II CORPS KIA: Avery, John M. Jones; III CORPS KIA: Pender, Pettigrew, MArshall. Wounded: Heth, Fry, Scales, Lowrence, POW: Trimble Archer. That's some 'victory'. You've lost your mind. LOL.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone Did I EVER say it was a VICTORY?? NO. Historian's wrote that Lee "Strategically won the Pennsylvania campaign and tactically lost the battle of Gettysburg." That is what THEY wrote. It is NOT my opinion. Are we clear on that?
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 Reb, what the hell's wrong with you? You're reply to Jeeffry wh asked you point blank if your contention was that the PA campiagn was a victory was and I quote: "Yes, the Pennsylvania Campaign was a victory for Lee." YOUR words. You did not predicate it with "historians say..." Are you daft or something? And by the way, what 'historians' are you referring to? I'm curious.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone BG Semmes died on 10 July, 1863. BG Barksdale died the next day 3 July, 1863. BG. Armistead died on 5 July, 1863. Colonel Avery died on 3 July, 1863. BG. Jones was only wounded, he was killed at the battle of the Wilderness. MG Pender was mortally wounded and died from infection on 18 July, 1863. BG Pettigrew was mortally wounded at Falling Waters, on 14 July, 1863, he died on 17 July, 1863. Colonel Birkett D. Fry was wounded and captured. BG Scales was only wounded, 1 July, 1863.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 There you go again. What is the point of relaying the trivia other than to show that, like all of us, you can read? (Fry was a reg. l commander...I cited just brigadiers and division commanders). I honestly don't know what you're trying to prove It is quite pedantic and condescending. IJust giving you some advice. It's a turn-off. I have all that info as well. Anyone can access it. The point, as you must concede is that this campaign seriously damaged the ANVA command system.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 So Reb. Are you saying that these men then were NOT casualties of the Gettysburg campaign because what, they weren't killed instantly like Reynolds but lingered before succumbing to their wounds? Are you for real with that? What is your point besides showing that you can read?
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 There is a HUGE difference of KIA and MW. If your going to list that crap, do research, your not going to bullshit me. You need to read on the Civil War for another Twenty years, then come back on here.
rebel2276 8 months ago
Comment removed
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 I accidentally sent you a reply intended for Reb. Sorry mate.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone About your casualty list. Yeah. I forwarded it to Reb already. I should have said it was from you!
MrJeefry1 8 months ago
@MrJeefry1 Please stop forwarding a screwed up "Casualty list". That was god awful. The only General who was "KIA" at Gettysburg was BG. Garnett. Do some research before you post something that stupid again.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 You're just an old fool. You are hung up on semantics like KIA-as opposed to what Reb? Died of wounds a day or two later? Who the f**k CARES? That is immaterial and you know it, making you a nit-picking psudeo-Ken Burns wannabe. If you have an issue with my casualty list, take it up with a REAL historian Stephen Sears. Like you I got my info from a source... he was mine. A published, respected, incredibly fair-minded and objective historian with no axe to grind but to tell truth.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@Shafeone I know it's frustrating for you, that you don't know much about the Civil War, or even Gettysburg. Who cares? When you two idiots typed up some stupid casualty list on Confederate generals and brigade commanders, I care then. Damn do some research before you type garbage like that. I asked you last week to type of the UNION generals and brigade commanders casualties, appears I am not going to get that. lol
Damn I flew back to Afghanistan, that gave you plenty of time to do that.
rebel2276 8 months ago
@rebel2276 I know who won. Can you say the same? LOL I make it a point not to presume who I'm chatting with. For an old man you sure are making an amateur mistake.
Shafeone 8 months ago
@rebel2276 I hope you'