Mr Muslim: we atheists are not the "monsters" some of you religious believers want people to believe. We have as much right to be nonbelievers as you have to be a believer.
@Bruno53ification I am not telling you not to be atheist but on the other habd do not bash all religion while simultaneously disowning some of your more famous adherents like Stalin, Chairman Mao, Kim Jong il, and Benito Mussolini. I notice atheist promote famous consumer friendly adherents like John Lennon while ignoring your equally famous adherents like Vladimir Lenin.
@Bruno53ification Of course there are millions of communist, Marxist and socialist who support Pol Pot's, killing fields, The madness of Stalin, and many other atrocities named in the above video.
you are stupid and know nothing about our glorious Chinese Communist motherland of Africa or Russia or even the evil USA. The autom harvest was the first time the Chinese people stood up and shook the foundations of western imperialism in China, how much does the CIA pay you?
that is why so many muslism are communist or socialist, that is why russians want socialism back, that is why under saddam there was peace, that is why chinese people live 10 times better then they did before communism, that is why there are more communist/socialist states than islamist states (you claim there are none), even in the islamic lands we put up great socialism and the arab people lived better, that is why you are in bed with the USA CIA and Israel.
Ok again you and you KKK freinds say "communists want to expand and dominate the world" you are a joke, you are a good laugh you look like a fool not in your KKK rob but in a muslim rob
Hitler claimed to be chosen by god and hated the USSR and man muslim fundamenalist fools liked him, while secular Socialist brother Gaddafi was opposed to him
@ThosDowling Family values are eroding in the USA. No society in history has every flourished from fornication and adultery which produces bastard children and a preponderance of disease. America's down fall will not come at the hands of some fanatical terrorist wielding a bomb but rather from the irrational, toxic, and selfish behavior of a society where men marry men and heterosexuality gives way to perversion. Studies show 50% of people in the USA are mentally ill. That's real freedom.
You are correct, family values do seem to be eroding in America, but this is not due to our godlessness. There are many other factors in play. For instance, if we are going to throw studies into the equation, I would like to present this video which displays the statistics of a peace index in relation to the religiousness of nations. You will note, a) that America is actually quite a religious nation and b), the more secular a nation is, the greater its peace index.
I'm willing to guess that acceptance of homosexuals is more prevalent in these peaceful states. The values shared by many Atheists (not all, as I would not presume all Muslims value the same things), are also appalled at the rise of fatherless children. Our answer would be to educate young people about safe sex and waiting until they are prepared financially to have children. America may be mentally ill, but not because of atheism.
@T Homosexuality is still technically illegal in most American states and how do you see a country with such high rates of metal illness and drug abuse as peaceful? All true Muslims base their values on the Qu'ran but due to repeated invasions and colonization from the West over a period of centuries many Muslims now are as confused as the MTV generation. in America. Your safe sex scenario is only relevant in a world with no intoxicants and teen hormones. You are right atheist do not contribute.
You've made "A No True Scotsman Argument," a logical fallacy. Look it up. You've put words at my fingertips that did not issue from them. You've ignored my points, that I never defended the US as a non-violent state. Instead I propose that it is violent, but it is not secularism that is the cause, it is instead religion in at all vile. You finger the wrong culprit in other words.
I have wasted both our times in this argument and won't waste more, educate yourself and dig deeper.
@ThosDowling Fact: In atheism morality is an option whereas in religion morality is a mandate. Since atheism is not a belief you have no guidelines to what is wrong or right. Guidelines require following and following guideline denotes a belief in their principles. Religion denounces murder. promiscuity, drug abuse, theft, ect. The ills of America stem from the lack of adherence to religious principles not from the adherence to them.
@VoyageIslam morality is always an option, religion or otherwise. Using america as an example, over 99% (1997) of criminals in prison were religious. Statistically, religious people are more likely to commit crimes.
Even if religion ceased to exist, morality would still exist. There is an evolutionary function for it. No society can function properly if its ppl r killing, stealing and doing bad things to each other.
@brianng999 Religious people who commit crimes are going against their religious book. Athiest who commit crimes have no finite moral code. If religion ceased to exist you would still have rapist, murderers, racist, drug abusers, alcoholics, and all of the other banes of immoral society. America produces the most serial killers in the world are you saying it is dysfunctional?
@VoyageIslam I am not denouncing your religion, I just want to say that your stance against atheism is undeserving. People of all faiths and beliefs commit crimes and it is not right to put the blame on atheism. The moral code of atheists is the same as society's moral code.
If religious books are supposed to guide you to follow a proper moral code, it would seem that they are ineffective compared with the atheists who have a smaller percentage of people in prison.
@brianng999 Allah gives man free will and the Qu'ran clearly states that the life of this world is only a test so if men do not adhere to Islam that is not the failure of religion that is the failure of individual men. You say: "The moral code of atheists is the same as society's moral code." Which society are you referring to? German society so it morally fit to support Hitler so, are you saying atheist in Nazi Germany would have been morally correct to support the Holocaust?
@VoyageIslam Regardless of religious belief, human society has morals. It is more advantageous to work together, make friends, not kill each other and all humans know this.
Regarding religious morals I am quite certain that the christian bible, qu'ran as well as a great many religious books consider the killing of non-believers as an essential part of the faith. This is the same as what Hitler, who was a christian, has done. Is it morally correct to support such actions?
@brianng999 Your naive faith in society is almost amiable in a Jimmy Olsen type of way but in reality society allowed Apartheid to exist in south Africa for nearly 50 years then same society stood by while Muslims in Bosnia were ethnically cleansed not to mention Rwanda where millions died while we were drinking our Avian but all of that could br chalked up to the past if society wasn't allowing Bashir Al Assad (A SECULARIST like Saddam) to carry on the family tradition of genocide.
@VoyageIslam Sorry for the extended post but no where does the Qu'ran order the murder of all non-Muslims as proven by Quran 2:255. Many Islamaphobes quote Qu'ran 2:291 and 9:29 out of context but if you read the verses in full context it is clear they are talking about a specific group of oppressors.
@VoyageIslam Forgive me as I don't know the Qu'ran but most religions have passages that are violent towards nonbelievers.That's why you have the religious conflicts throughout history and in modern times the religious war between america and the middle east
I am an atheist and am training to be a medical professional that goes with a code of ethics and I have a lot of atheist friends who are not murderers, rapists or serial killers. I also do not personally insult you like you have towards me.
I am glad that your friends are not murderers but you do realize murder exist right? Atheism has no doctrine forbidding murder because atheism is a "non-belief." You say society has safeguards and is somehow innately humane and moral I am simply asking you to validate that statement. How does atheism eliminate racism even though Darwin (an atheist) was a racist?
I do not mean to be confrontational or insulting but people are evil in spite of religion not because of it.
@VoyageIslam I don't know if darwin was racist or not, but back then EVERYONE was racist. It was socially accepted that white people were superior to black people. Doesn't matter if you were religious or atheist. Using darwin is a bad example.
Like I said atheists tend to commit less crimes than non-atheists. This is because there is a tendency for atheists to be more educated, cultured members of society. Atheism is not to blame, it is instead poor education and social turmoil.
@brianng999 The prophet Muhammad pbuh said 1400 years ago that Whites have no superiority over Blacks. There are no statistics that prove atheist commit less crime and even if it were so it would be irrelevant since atheism has no finite moral code. Educated people commit many crimes look at Bernie Madoff.
@brianng999 People are stupid. We have extremists on all sides of the fences.
Then we have Christians and Atheists who like quoting verses out the Quran and completely stripping them out of their context. Oh and here's another good one, in some cases... They either don't translate it properly, or they create verses that DONT EVEN EXIST.
You want to pin violence on someone? Pin it on extremists, and anti-Islamists. Extremists do not define our religion.
@VoyageIslam in other words what you are telling me is that Camden represents every single us city and Muslim countries dont have any run down impoverished neighborhoods.
Dude communism is NOT an off shoot of atheism. Atheism is a philosophy while communism is an ideology. Most atheists I have met are NOT communists or socialists for that matter. Sure Stalin was an atheist but he based his communist philosophy from orthodox Christianity which he originally was an adherent to. And Adolf Hitler was a Catholic with some Germanic Mesopaganism blended into it. You should do your research before you make a video like this.
Even if Hitler did not follow any religious book, to be an atheist requires a lack of belief in the existence of deities, so a person that believes in a deity but does not follow his religion is at most a bad Christian or Muslims or a deist, but he is NOT an atheist.
There is nothing in common to all atheists, it's not an alternative to any religion.
Most atheists are totally indistinguishable from their fellow believers, because most follow the community traditions.
@VoyageIslam ""How can theism have believers if it is not a belief?"
I think you mean't atheism ?
Atheist may believe and follow the tradition, that could very well have religious origins, but do follow the worshiping parts, because they lack beliefs in gods.
Many of my religious friends have only leant after 20 years that I was an atheist, they thought I was a non-practicing Catholic.
@saintpine Why do atheist marry? Marriage is based in religious doctrine. Love is something found on the pages of romance novels. Commitment is more important. People who love but are not committed tend to play the field while people who are committed do not.
Many atheists marry in church to please family, others marry legally due to legal benefits, unfortunately nearly in every country, unmarried couples don't get much social benefits due to laws lacking to protect their rights.
Whatever commitment a couple does between each other is not my business, I don't feel it's correct to impose any form of contracts whether religious or not, I do believe that they should supplied with all the information to benefits and risks.
@saintpine If you get married in a Church, you have a Christian name, and you are buried in a Church you are a Christian. I have not been near a Church in 10 years.
@saintpine Whose secularism should be applied? Again I ask are you nive enough to think just because a people are secular they will all agree? Al Capoon was secular do you agree with Capoon?
I have a feeling you don't understand what the word means.
"Secularism is the belief that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs."
It means that you are free to be a Muslim, I'm free to be an atheist, others are free to be whatever they want, no one’s ideas are going to be imposed on others, we should simply get together and decide commune rules to assure we can live together peacefully.
@saintpine I have a feeling you did not know I block spammers. Secularist are imperialist just like Stalin was. Every government does not allow freedom of religion it seems you have never left your corner of the world. Do you really think ll secularist think alike????? "commune rules " = communism.
2. Secularism is not a phylosophy of life, its a simple agreement.
In government we all must keep our religion symbol and religious preaching out of government and state offices (this applies to atheistic associations as well), everyone brings forth their ideas for a common ground to but limits (and we not interested if the ideas are personal or coming from some holy book).
On this playing ground, I don't see why Muslims should not be allowed to have 4 adult wifes in USA.
In Italy the head of one of the Muslim associations Mr Adel Smith, was sentenced to jail (not applied), because he threw the crucifix on his mother’s hospital bed out of the window, after he tried everything to get it kindly removed.
He recently spent some time in hospital with the crucifix on his bed.
Most atheists, few Christians and some Catholc priests are on his side for his secular and humanistic rights.
In my city Milan, Italy, the left wing party has been badly criticized because it’s the only party that has put in their program the possibility of the Muslim community to build a mosque.
Many atheist would happy if religion disappears, but nevertheless most of us cannot see any reason why a Mosque cannot be built in a secular society with equal rights for all.
Most atheist are pluralists, and defend your equal rights, fighting against oppression of minorities.
In Italy a Jewish Judge tried everything to get the gigantic crucifix removed from his courtroom, only to find that arrogant Christians placed a bigger in its place the day after.
The Crucifix is everywhere in state building due to the fascist Mussolini agreement with the Vatican in 1929.
He has put his career at risk for his rights, has lost his job, only an atheist associations is helping him in his battle for his secular and humanistic rights.
@saintpine Atheism has no moral incentive this is why you have theoretically traversed the globe within these irrelevant and off topic post of yours and still have not addressed the fact that Hitlers Final Solution was morally acceptable by atheist via scientific logic.
@VoyageIslam how was science doesnt value or de-value life. it makes no judgment on morality or immorality- people do. the moral incentive is not only feeling good when you treat others well, it is not suffering retribution if you do something wrong.
Please note that most atheists in Italy support the Muslim Imams rights to have their mosque, to have a hospital bed without a crucifix above their head, but most do not support his campaign against homosexuals, but do support his rights to campaign.
They also do not support the Jewish Judge in some of his views about Israel and Palatine, but do support his rights to express them.
Google the Salem witch trials . it is one examples of religious fear causing death in the states. 19 ppl were killed and Religion was the justification people used . If these ppl where to reason like we can today those 19 people would have not died by hanging.while religion was not the underlying reason to the death of the 19 ppl. the citizens of salem. It was the offical reason to kill. an Outlet for hate in there community
I understand where your coming from but you have yet to show any scientific evidence that a person being atheist has a direct link to them being anything other then a person not acemting the possibility God. I am sry that the Hitler example didn't go though the way I intended. Yes in the end Hitler used not evolution n but natural selection aka survival lof the fittest to condemn the Jews.
I would like to know where your information on the link between atheist and the your historical figures. Atheism is not a belief at all. it is rejecting the concept of god due to lack of Evidence. that's all it is... From what I know there is no fact anywhere that that states Atheism leads to Hitler. And as for the mass killings. yes the Bible says its ok. The God of the bible and what I believe to be your god are the same. Noah's Ark is the story of God killing off all but 8 ppl
then there are alot of mentally impaired and incredibly unquestioning people in this world
you probably dont know this but psychology has proven that this "illusion" (religion) ,as freud would have put it is actually a very important part in a healthy lifestyle
@ShieldOfIslam A little FYI: Psychology is based mostly on the lunatic Sigmund Freud who was obsessive compulsive o the extent that he smoked 20 cigars a day even after his lower jaw had been removed because of cancer, he was also addicted to morphine from which he overdosed. So he is sort of a dubious source to cite.
@VoyageIslam A little FYI: Psychology is a science, it cannot be based on a person. Freud died because he had terminal cancer and he intentionally overdosed on morphine to end his suffering. Also, Freud was a Neurologist, but hey, by all means, keep making yourself look like a retard.
@swampdonkey152000 I psychology is a science it is obviously a failed one: Google Psychiatric Drugs and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America. January 1st, 2011. By Gary Kohls,
@ShieldOfIslam You're right, there are a lot of mentally impaired and incredibly unquestioning people in the world. What are you talking about? Psychology has proven that religion is a very important part of a healthy lifestyle? You obviously have never read an actual psychological journal. Religion is nothing but wish thinking. There is nothing healthy about believing things that are not true. A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, and the truth is the truth even if no one believes it.
@swampdonkey152000 you should recheck your psychology journals because new research is being done proving the effects of religion and having a spiritual bond on a persons health and lifestyle choices
"There is nothing healthy about believing things that are not true"
thats your opinion and its very wrong
whether or not its true is not the matter because i believe it to be true and you dont
but the effects of the lack of belief on someones health can be tested scientifically and it has
No believing Muslim can force a woman to marry without consent and rape is punishable by death in sharia. HQ "Force not your slave girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment-" Atheism however has no moral value so you are in no condition to question our morals when you do not believe in morality, after all remember atheism is a non-belief so if you believe in morality you are not an atheist.
@VoyageIslam Are you retarded? Atheists don't believe in god. There is nothing which prohibits atheists from believing in morality. Good luck trying to make atheists look immoral when muslims blow themselves up, force women to live in cloth bags, beat their wives, mutilate the genitals of children, spread racist conspiracies about jews, stone homosexuals, adulterers, and women who have been raped, bomb newspapers for printing cartoons, and generally act like big babies. You fail at life.
@swampdonkey152000 There is nothing that encourages atheist to be moral. I am not trying to make atheist look immoral it s a fact that you have no moral codes. Anyone who "blows themselves" up or kill civilians violates Qu'ran 4:29 and 5:35. When atheist like Stalin or more recently Jared Lee Loughner kill people according to atheit belief (which is non-belief), they have done nothing wrong. Your perception of Islam is prejudice and ignorant, you belong in 50's era Alabama not the internet.
@VoyageIslam Morality is innate. If left alone, good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things, but if you want a good person to do a wicked thing - that takes religion. You can quote me Koran verses until you're blue in the face, but at the end of the day all suicide bombers are muslims. You can't kill someone because of atheism which as you said is a non-belief. Stalin didn't kill all those people because he was overly concerned with intellectual honesty.
@swampdonkey152000 If morality is innate why is it the Western countries where atheism is growing the most have proven to be the most morally deficient societies in history? Yes, I can quote morality from the Qu'ran but your moral outlook is esoteric and based on your personal views. Islam teaches that morality is indeed innate we do not have a born in sin philosophy however TRUE atheism i.e. secularism has a bottom line which is money whereas TRUE religion has bottom line of mutual harmony.
@VoyageIslam They haven't been proven to be the most morally deficient in history lol. You sit here and make claims that are completely ridiculous or unprovable as if they are fact. You obviously don't know what atheism is and yet you're going to tell me that true atheism is about making money. You need to invest in a fucking dictionary. Atheism and secularism are different things. Everyone's morality is based on personal views you retard. You are so stupid it is breathtaking.
America was built on the annihilation of the Natives, the misuse of the Chinese to build your rail roads the enslavement of Africans for 400 years followed by another 100 years of Jim Crow and segregation, even today America is the largest consumer of cocaine in history. America's appetite for drugs consumes more financial resources than South Africa's GDP generates. I do own a dictionary that is why I do not need profanity to express myself. Ad hominems are the last resort of the ignorant.
@VoyageIslam Whatever queer. As I recall, some pedophile warlord named Mohammad terrorized the middle east for a while and killed shit tons of people, but that still would have nothing to do with the morality of modern day muslims, except for the fact that they think that he's God's go-to guy for morality. No reasonable person in America today would say that slavery was good or cocaine is good. Muslims say everything Mohammad did was fucking perfect. That's why the muslim world is a shithole
@swampdonkey15200 "Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him." Diwan Chand Sharma, The Prophets of the East, Calcutta 1935, p. l 22.
@saintpine one comment at a time please. Why are your community moral special? Do you really think athist in India or Africa will have you same moral views? Very naive if so.
@VoyageIslam "Why are your community moral special?"
They are not, everyone can agree or not agree according to their own subjective moralities, the laws are simply a way to get together in a society where everyone has their own opinions.
It doesn't guarantee the best solution or the best morality, it simply places boundaries for everyone to abide whether they agree or not.
These man made laws, changing in time and place and continuously evolving, could come from various origins.
@VoyageIslam Actually every sounded minded person condemns the actions of nazisms extremes.. Again you miss out that those who acted on the nazi parties wishes were "men of faith"!!!!! These same men said nothing at the time!! So again why isnt there a huge outcry when saddam gassed the kurds? or when the suicide bomber kills??? Many muslims lauded these actions!! So your moral and ethical ground fails as its "men of faith " that carry out these actions. Atheists arent a collective!!
@VoyageIslam you are seriously troubled. My father fought both in Egypt, Libya and in the pacific against Japan in WW2. Guess what his religion was (or lack of). One guess.. So your argument again doesnt hold. Remember WW2 was fought on national lines not on religious. The Italian army was, maybe still is, predominately Catholic!! Mussolini was Catholic not atheist. Hitlers army was Lutheran and Catholic . Even today one cant find atheism as a subset of religions when in many armies
@gadfael If Hitler was not religious then he was an atheist. You just admitted WW 2 was not fought on religious lines.Thanks for agreeing with me. War is an atheist stronghold.
@VoyageIslam I never said Hitler was an atheist.. He was born and reared as a Catholic. Which last I looked was a "religious group"..More importantly his troops were religious.. Saddam's troops as well as Saddam were I suspect mainly muslims..Suicide bombers are generally muslims!! Actually any evidence the muslims in Libya knew of the "final solution"? I doubt it since only when the US army entered the camps was it really known!! So you're claiming things that could not have happened!!
@gadfael You said WW 2 was not fought on religious lines so regardless of Hitlers religion the war was secular i.e. atheistic. Sadam was a part of the Ba'ath party :
Ba'ath Party
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party (also spelled Ba'th or Baath which means "resurrection" or "renaissance" (reddyah); Arabic: حزب البعث العربي الاشتراكي) is a secularist political party, mixing Arab nationalist and Arab socialist interests
@gadfael Can you give me anything from the Catholic Bible supporting Hitlers actions? I can give you something from Atheism to support his idea of EVOLVING a master race it is called DARWINISM! Saddams troops (who were supported by the CIA) were Arab Nationalist Saddam squashed any Islamic parties in Iraq. You say most suicide bombers are Muslims so are you saying you believe in collective judgment, if so may I point out 85% of the worlds serial killers are American.
@VoyageIslam again you lie and mislead. I have shown Hitler believed in a "divine creator". Now using your logic. Since Hitler was not christian (your words) . And since he believed in a "creator" one can using your logic conclude the "creator" was not the gods of the Jews. So that leaves Allah.. So this evil was inspired by Allah. Your muslim so you evil! Happy with your sound logic?
As for serial killers again prove your statement!!.. Your make up so much hard to believe anything you say
@VoyageIslam so you admit Hitler was a believer! So your argument folds.. So there is no moral or ethical advantage of religion. Great your getting there! congratulations! Stalin had a religion "stalinism". If the USSR had not folded maybe there would be a new religion the church of Stalin. t was like any cult. Ditto for Pol Pot. Actually prove one cult or religion is better than another.. show one is true and not myth
@gadfael Hitler my or may not have been a believer your question is moot the real question is oes he represent Christianity? “I believe in one thing only, the power of human will.”
@VoyageIslam Your supposition is is Hitler was an atheist!! That is your position Its your bottom line. the bedrock of this discussion. Unfortunately it is wrong!! The basis of your discussion is based on a lie.
Hitler believed in a divine creator. So he is exactly like you in both believe in a divine creator just you call her Allah
@VoyageIslam the percentage of African American serial killers is estimated to be between 13 and 22 percent.
whatever the true proportion of black serial killers in the United States is or has been, it is greater than the proportion of African Americans in the general population.
So African Americans are the main group associated with serial killing. Your African-American.. Hmmm
Im not also a fan of America and its past actions however you seem a fan of Muslim invading armies.
@VoyageIslam found a quote for you from Hitler!! "What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race...so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe...Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence." note CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.. He was NOT an atheist!! So your argument is false
@gadfael Mein Kamph means MY STRUGGLE in German thus denoting that the book is an articulation of Hitlers personal ambitions not the ambitions of every Christian. Earlier you implied hat Blacks were inferior does it irritate you that even I have a finer understanding of the English language than you seem to possess? Do not get me wrong I m not trying to sound arrogant because all praise is due to Allah. I believe this is where you either change the topic or expound an ad hominem.
@VoyageIslam it is also his RELIGIOUS BELIEFS have you read it? if not why not? No I did not imply Negros were inferior . That is your own chip. you making up lies to prove your thoughts. Unfortunately made up facts are easily disproved as I have continuously done.
@gadfael The word "his" denote an individual and esoteric view. Your challenge is not t prov Hitlers beliefs but to prove that they were the belief of Jesus (a Jew.) So, you said murderers are not inferior? By the way the term Nergro is offensive to most Blacks but being you people still call Aboriginals Blackies I am not taken aback at all.
@VoyageIslam no you statement was Atheism is not moral or ethical. You have to prove Hitler was an atheist. He wasn't clearly. So as a believer his beliefs allowed him to do what he did. So we agree religious men are no more moral or ethical than atheists.
I never said murders were anything apart from being murderers.
Negro is the race classification. you obviously have a serious inferiority complex. Try therapy. Aboriginals are aboriginals.
@VoyageIslam Having sex with an unwilling person is still rape.. So your spiritual leader was probably a rapist since he had sex with his slaves. Really unethical but legal in your religion. Oh and we have already agreed Hitler was doing what Mohammed did with his camels and horses. So Hitler was following in Mohammed's steps..
@gadfael Please provide a Qu'ran verse permitting sex with an unwilling person. The Qu'rans permit slaves to marry it never stipulates anything about force you are either ignorant of the book, a liar or both. We grred that Hitler was not following one passage of any religious script and as an atheist he was one of historys greatest murderers in his attempt o prove Darwin's theory. I am glad you are admitting you see Jews as camels and horses is that the same way you see Aboriginal australians?
@VoyageIslam koran (33:50) those who are legally in their possession. And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . (Suras 4:3 and 33:50) I see all humans as part of the world , Kingdom - Animalia
@VoyageIslam Hitler wasn't trying to prove Darwin's theory. Unless Mohammed was as well. But then he endorsed rape.. So maybe the two men were similar in many ways morally and ethically.
@gadfael Hitlers entire study of Eugnics were based on Darwin's theory, people will look what I am saying up and see it is true. Please provide the verse of Qu'ran that endorses rape because HQ 17:32 prohibits it and HQ 24:33 says "....Force not your slave girls to whoredom..." Pese post the verse of the Qu'ran you are misquoting. And you never answered my question: You say we should simply follow societal moral laws (Western laws are based on Judaic/Christian text) which society?
@VoyageIslam eugenics is NOT a Darwin invention. It was practiced 3000 years before Darwin.
Ok Sura 23:5-6 "except with regard to their wives and those who are legally in their possession, for in that case they shall not be blameworthy". note the legally in their possession or Sura 70:29-30
without consent slave or prisoner its called rape.
Which society the society I'm in. I I can work for a change in immoral or unethical laws. Put in place by believers in some unproven entity.
@gadfael The prophet said their is no marriage without a wali or guardian even a slave girl can not be married without proper consent of family. What George was rape he neither married them or gave them an option. So, you believe in forcing Western ideals from your society on the world like Caesar, Napoleon and Hitler tried to do? This hole moral debate is a charade on your point you have conceded that morality is optional in atheism so your claims lack jurisdiction.
@VoyageIslam no but you can rape your female slaves. So Mohammed Hitler, Napoleon the Caliphs and Bush are all the same.. This I agree with you.. Seems morality is an option in all religions.
@VoyageIslam Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"
Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
Qur'an (8:69) - "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawfuland good"
Respond to this video...proof that murder and suicide is forbidden in society. You want me to find the legal codes for you?
Since atheism is not a religion nor a collective nor a group.How can Atheism make a pronouncement? Individuals can and do. What you are also saying is Sayyid Qutb was a poor scholar and his works seriously flawed.
@gadfael Murder and suicide are forbidden in society because all societies have religious roots. Since atheism can not make a pronouncement then t has no moral influence and leaves right and wrong up to the individual. That is called anarchy and that is really what you are an anarchist. I am saying Islam is nased on the Qu'ran not Sayyid Qutb's opinion and I gave Qu'ranic proof suicide is forbidden (HQ 4:29) AND killing of innocents is forbidden (HQ: 5:35) Atheism forbids neither Islam does.
@VoyageIslam you mistake secular for atheism!! Is english your second language? secular is all religions welcome but the government does not restrict nor encourages religious views. Non secular government is Saudi Arabia and the Holy See. If you live in America you should be thankful for secularism. How many churches are there in Saudi Arabia? Have there been religious wars yes. You should know a few! Atheism is lack of belief in her holiness Allah/creator/moon woman whatever.
@gadfael English is my first language because the WESTERN COLONIZERS who kidnapped my fore bearers and forced thm to come to America were Euro-Christian English speakers and they forced their language upon Blacks, Native Americans nd every non-Christian people they ever encountered. Saudi Arabia is a secular government the entire concept of a monarchy s rooted in secularism. Name one war based on a religious book in the last 100 years. Insult Allah once more and you will be blocked.
@VoyageIslam again your history knowledge is lacking. Your fore-bearers were probably enslaved by another African tribe. I asked what your natural tongue is as you seem not to understand the differences between words. Maybe its the second grade US education system. Saudi is sharia law. Oh I'm not allowed to say anything against your beliefs but your allowed to say anything against other peoples. Ok prove Allah exists. Give definitive evidence.
@gadfael I do not know my natural tongue because English was forced on my family just like you are trying to force it on the Aboriginals in Australia. Is your natural tongue Englih? If so why can't you
1. Give me a moral incentive in atheism?
2. Cite one verse of ny scripture that denotes Hitler as a religious man.
3. Give me a source that calls Saddam Husseins Ba'ath party is based on the Qu'ran.
As far as Saudi is concerned their monarchy is not based in sharia so how can they be.
@VoyageIslam re aboriginal comment. bull. you have zero clue. English is the universal commerce language. English is forced on you by? The local police whipped you?
Society arbitrates morals and ethics
Give me a moral incentive of religion?
Show me in the Koran where Hitler is described.
Show me Saddam Hussein was NOT a muslim
Try building a church in Saudi Arabia. Actually how many temples and churches are there in Saudi Would you campaign for a temple or church to be built in Mecca?
@gadfa Kim the English language was forced on all African slaves who were stolen and forced to come to America in EUROPEAN owned slave ships. The English language was also forced on the Native Americans who were branded as savages just in order for Euro-Christian colonizers to have an excuse to take their land. The same Euro-Christian colonizers today feel the need to brand all oil wealthy Muslim countries as terrorist this time the goal is oil instead of land. It seem to be the way of the West.
@VoyageIslam you know there was 300+ years of Muslim Arab slave trade before the Europeans started trading in slaves. Notice words MUSLIM and ARAB! Or is it OK for a MUSLIM ARAB to take Africans as slaves?
I haven't seen UAE ever described as a "terrorist state" so please show me the quote. Nor Saudi Arabia So show quote! I suspect this is your own feelings not actuality
@gadfael Arabs enslaved many races before Muhammad pbuh was ever born yet and still that does not exculpate the Westerners who introduced the most racist and brutal slave trade in history. A Black slave could be killed for:
1. Looking a European in the eye.
2. Speaking their native tongue.
3. READING!
4. Not working hard enough.
5. Looking at a White woman.
And more. Not only did this not exist even among pagan Arabs it never existed anywhere outside of Euro-Christian culture.
@VoyageIslam was the killers of your 1st cousin religious? My bet they were. Still should never have happened. This type of event isn't restricted to USA. Events like this happen across the world in all religious societies. Being in a girls company in Afghanistan would get both killed.
African was invaded in 644 by muslim armies. It was this that started the African to Muslim Arab slave trade. do you need a link to arab slavers?
@gadfael The killers of my first cousin were not persecuted because we both know that in the USA it is rare for a White man to be prosecuted for killing a Black person. Africa invaded Arabia under their emirate Abraha before the Prophet Muhammad was even born. During the Prophets life time however Africa protected his followers the Qu'ran tells us to follow Muhammad Kim (HQ 3:31) not every Muslim. Would it be fair to judge you by Paul Charles Denyer?
@gadfael I answered your question. You did not answer my question should we judge all Australians by Paul Charles Denyer or all atheist by Jared Lee Loughner ? Frederick Jermaine Carter was lynched in 2010 in Mississippi no one was charged. Why is the West the only country known for lynching Blacks?
American homegrown terrorist Jared Lee Loughner is also an atheist Kim do we judge all atheist by him? According to atheism (which you admit has no moral obligations) Jared Lee Loughner's actions are perfectly o.k.
@VoyageIslam can you prove Jared is an atheist? I said society has ethical and moral obligations. Or are you not part of a society? Jared broke the law Im guessing as I dont know his case. Breaking the law isnt OK.
@gadfael Can you prove Jared is a Christian? You say Hitler was a Christian just because his parents were Christian so does that mean every atheist with Christian parents is not an atheist? Is breaking Islamic law not ok in atheism or do you just mean breaking Judeo-Christian based laws?
@VoyageIslam You are the one making claims. Prove he is. I dont know him nor do I know his crimes.
as for Hitler.. you forget those carrying out the horrors weer religious .. As for Hitlers own opinion read Adolf Hitler. (1941). My New Order. New York: Reynal & Hitchcock, p. 144.
@gadfael Pol Pot is another example of an atheist committing mass murder. I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN PLEASE TELL WHAT PART OF THE BIBLE CONDONED HITLER? IN CASE YOU FORGOT CHRISTIANITY IS BASED ON THE BIBLE AND ISLAM IS BASED ON THE QU'RAN.
@VoyageIslam as for laws.. what specific laws are you referring to? Are all Islamic laws good? Are they all ethical and moral? In Jared's case did he committed murder? That is against secular laws.
Jared Loughner quotes: "In conclusion, reading the second United Sates Constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. "No I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver! "NO, WON'T TRUST IN GOD!"
Jared Lee Loughner is an American ATHEIST who is charged with A shooting that killed 6 people.
@gadfael You seem to be having a reading comprehension problem have you been tested for ADT or are you simply out of Ritalin? An atheist ho goes to Church can not be called an atheist so a Muslim or a Christian who goes contrary to their belief is n example of hat happens when people do not believe not an example of the belief.
@VoyageIslam *LOL* obviously you're not mentally astute enough be a medical practitioner!! Actually dio\d you finish junior high school? Saddam attended the mosque. So like Hitler was a believer. So again there is no benefit for increase morals and ethics in religion
Mr Muslim: we atheists are not the "monsters" some of you religious believers want people to believe. We have as much right to be nonbelievers as you have to be a believer.
Bruno53ification 1 week ago
@Bruno53ification I am not telling you not to be atheist but on the other habd do not bash all religion while simultaneously disowning some of your more famous adherents like Stalin, Chairman Mao, Kim Jong il, and Benito Mussolini. I notice atheist promote famous consumer friendly adherents like John Lennon while ignoring your equally famous adherents like Vladimir Lenin.
VoyageIslam 1 week ago
@VoyageIslam they are not the only atheists around, by the way, sir.
Bruno53ification 1 week ago
@Bruno53ification Of course there are millions of communist, Marxist and socialist who support Pol Pot's, killing fields, The madness of Stalin, and many other atrocities named in the above video.
VoyageIslam 1 week ago
you are stupid and know nothing about our glorious Chinese Communist motherland of Africa or Russia or even the evil USA. The autom harvest was the first time the Chinese people stood up and shook the foundations of western imperialism in China, how much does the CIA pay you?
MaoistLeninistMarx 4 months ago
@MaoistLeninistMarx Communism is dead even the Chinese are rejecting it go to Hong Kong.
VoyageIslam 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
you are a fool
MaoistLeninistMarx 4 months ago
that is why so many muslism are communist or socialist, that is why russians want socialism back, that is why under saddam there was peace, that is why chinese people live 10 times better then they did before communism, that is why there are more communist/socialist states than islamist states (you claim there are none), even in the islamic lands we put up great socialism and the arab people lived better, that is why you are in bed with the USA CIA and Israel.
MaoistLeninistMarx 4 months ago
Ok again you and you KKK freinds say "communists want to expand and dominate the world" you are a joke, you are a good laugh you look like a fool not in your KKK rob but in a muslim rob
MaoistLeninistMarx 4 months ago
oh ok when osama does it that is not islam, BTW osama was Bush's puppet
MaoistLeninistMarx 4 months ago
Shut the fuck up you KKK USA CIA mouth peice, your politics are about as black as bush, you are a fake
MaoistLeninistMarx 4 months ago
Hitler claimed to be chosen by god and hated the USSR and man muslim fundamenalist fools liked him, while secular Socialist brother Gaddafi was opposed to him
MaoistLeninistMarx 4 months ago
YES GLORY TO GREAT SADDAM HUSSIEN FUCK YOU, he was muslim, but not a fundamentalist fool like you, glory to Saddam.
MaoistLeninistMarx 4 months ago
I see the rise of divorce rates as a great thing. Now people need to just stop getting married before they're ready.
All of his arguments use faulty and incomplete information.
ThosDowling 5 months ago
@ThosDowling Family values are eroding in the USA. No society in history has every flourished from fornication and adultery which produces bastard children and a preponderance of disease. America's down fall will not come at the hands of some fanatical terrorist wielding a bomb but rather from the irrational, toxic, and selfish behavior of a society where men marry men and heterosexuality gives way to perversion. Studies show 50% of people in the USA are mentally ill. That's real freedom.
VoyageIslam 5 months ago
@VoyageIslam
You are correct, family values do seem to be eroding in America, but this is not due to our godlessness. There are many other factors in play. For instance, if we are going to throw studies into the equation, I would like to present this video which displays the statistics of a peace index in relation to the religiousness of nations. You will note, a) that America is actually quite a religious nation and b), the more secular a nation is, the greater its peace index.
ThosDowling 5 months ago
@VoyageIslam
I'm willing to guess that acceptance of homosexuals is more prevalent in these peaceful states. The values shared by many Atheists (not all, as I would not presume all Muslims value the same things), are also appalled at the rise of fatherless children. Our answer would be to educate young people about safe sex and waiting until they are prepared financially to have children. America may be mentally ill, but not because of atheism.
ThosDowling 5 months ago
@T Homosexuality is still technically illegal in most American states and how do you see a country with such high rates of metal illness and drug abuse as peaceful? All true Muslims base their values on the Qu'ran but due to repeated invasions and colonization from the West over a period of centuries many Muslims now are as confused as the MTV generation. in America. Your safe sex scenario is only relevant in a world with no intoxicants and teen hormones. You are right atheist do not contribute.
VoyageIslam 5 months ago
@VoyageIslam
You've made "A No True Scotsman Argument," a logical fallacy. Look it up. You've put words at my fingertips that did not issue from them. You've ignored my points, that I never defended the US as a non-violent state. Instead I propose that it is violent, but it is not secularism that is the cause, it is instead religion in at all vile. You finger the wrong culprit in other words.
I have wasted both our times in this argument and won't waste more, educate yourself and dig deeper.
ThosDowling 5 months ago
@ThosDowling Fact: In atheism morality is an option whereas in religion morality is a mandate. Since atheism is not a belief you have no guidelines to what is wrong or right. Guidelines require following and following guideline denotes a belief in their principles. Religion denounces murder. promiscuity, drug abuse, theft, ect. The ills of America stem from the lack of adherence to religious principles not from the adherence to them.
VoyageIslam 5 months ago
@VoyageIslam morality is always an option, religion or otherwise. Using america as an example, over 99% (1997) of criminals in prison were religious. Statistically, religious people are more likely to commit crimes.
Even if religion ceased to exist, morality would still exist. There is an evolutionary function for it. No society can function properly if its ppl r killing, stealing and doing bad things to each other.
brianng999 2 months ago
@brianng999 Religious people who commit crimes are going against their religious book. Athiest who commit crimes have no finite moral code. If religion ceased to exist you would still have rapist, murderers, racist, drug abusers, alcoholics, and all of the other banes of immoral society. America produces the most serial killers in the world are you saying it is dysfunctional?
VoyageIslam 2 months ago
@VoyageIslam I am not denouncing your religion, I just want to say that your stance against atheism is undeserving. People of all faiths and beliefs commit crimes and it is not right to put the blame on atheism. The moral code of atheists is the same as society's moral code.
If religious books are supposed to guide you to follow a proper moral code, it would seem that they are ineffective compared with the atheists who have a smaller percentage of people in prison.
brianng999 2 months ago
@brianng999 Allah gives man free will and the Qu'ran clearly states that the life of this world is only a test so if men do not adhere to Islam that is not the failure of religion that is the failure of individual men. You say: "The moral code of atheists is the same as society's moral code." Which society are you referring to? German society so it morally fit to support Hitler so, are you saying atheist in Nazi Germany would have been morally correct to support the Holocaust?
VoyageIslam 2 months ago
@VoyageIslam Regardless of religious belief, human society has morals. It is more advantageous to work together, make friends, not kill each other and all humans know this.
Regarding religious morals I am quite certain that the christian bible, qu'ran as well as a great many religious books consider the killing of non-believers as an essential part of the faith. This is the same as what Hitler, who was a christian, has done. Is it morally correct to support such actions?
brianng999 2 months ago
@brianng999 Your naive faith in society is almost amiable in a Jimmy Olsen type of way but in reality society allowed Apartheid to exist in south Africa for nearly 50 years then same society stood by while Muslims in Bosnia were ethnically cleansed not to mention Rwanda where millions died while we were drinking our Avian but all of that could br chalked up to the past if society wasn't allowing Bashir Al Assad (A SECULARIST like Saddam) to carry on the family tradition of genocide.
VoyageIslam 2 months ago
@VoyageIslam Sorry for the extended post but no where does the Qu'ran order the murder of all non-Muslims as proven by Quran 2:255. Many Islamaphobes quote Qu'ran 2:291 and 9:29 out of context but if you read the verses in full context it is clear they are talking about a specific group of oppressors.
VoyageIslam 2 months ago
@VoyageIslam Forgive me as I don't know the Qu'ran but most religions have passages that are violent towards nonbelievers.That's why you have the religious conflicts throughout history and in modern times the religious war between america and the middle east
I am an atheist and am training to be a medical professional that goes with a code of ethics and I have a lot of atheist friends who are not murderers, rapists or serial killers. I also do not personally insult you like you have towards me.
brianng999 2 months ago
I am glad that your friends are not murderers but you do realize murder exist right? Atheism has no doctrine forbidding murder because atheism is a "non-belief." You say society has safeguards and is somehow innately humane and moral I am simply asking you to validate that statement. How does atheism eliminate racism even though Darwin (an atheist) was a racist?
I do not mean to be confrontational or insulting but people are evil in spite of religion not because of it.
VoyageIslam 2 months ago
@VoyageIslam I don't know if darwin was racist or not, but back then EVERYONE was racist. It was socially accepted that white people were superior to black people. Doesn't matter if you were religious or atheist. Using darwin is a bad example.
Like I said atheists tend to commit less crimes than non-atheists. This is because there is a tendency for atheists to be more educated, cultured members of society. Atheism is not to blame, it is instead poor education and social turmoil.
brianng999 1 week ago
@brianng999 The prophet Muhammad pbuh said 1400 years ago that Whites have no superiority over Blacks. There are no statistics that prove atheist commit less crime and even if it were so it would be irrelevant since atheism has no finite moral code. Educated people commit many crimes look at Bernie Madoff.
VoyageIslam 1 week ago
@brianng999 People are stupid. We have extremists on all sides of the fences.
Then we have Christians and Atheists who like quoting verses out the Quran and completely stripping them out of their context. Oh and here's another good one, in some cases... They either don't translate it properly, or they create verses that DONT EVEN EXIST.
You want to pin violence on someone? Pin it on extremists, and anti-Islamists. Extremists do not define our religion.
taxi911 1 month ago
Hitler was a catholic
twizelby 6 months ago
US is above every Muslim country in happiness.
twizelby 6 months ago
@twizelby Only in the movies:
Camden - Poster child of American ruin
Camden, New Jersey is among the poorest and most dangerous cities in America.
watch?v=9BXCaT2JluI
VoyageIslam 6 months ago
@VoyageIslam that says nothing about percentages. look up the poles themselves. as a matter of fact I think its denmark that is number1 in happiness
twizelby 6 months ago
@VoyageIslam in other words what you are telling me is that Camden represents every single us city and Muslim countries dont have any run down impoverished neighborhoods.
twizelby 6 months ago
the athiest communists caused the war in my homeland (bosnia)
triggerhappy778 6 months ago
1:30 did he just say reality is based on the majority?!
GoGoIkuzo 8 months ago
@GoGoIkuzo Speaking in secularism yes reality is defined by the majority. When scientist thought the world was flat that was the assumed reality.
VoyageIslam 8 months ago
athiesim is a braine childe of satanism
amoohjob 8 months ago
@amoohjob actually atheism has been around a lot longer then satanism
twizelby 6 months ago
Dude communism is NOT an off shoot of atheism. Atheism is a philosophy while communism is an ideology. Most atheists I have met are NOT communists or socialists for that matter. Sure Stalin was an atheist but he based his communist philosophy from orthodox Christianity which he originally was an adherent to. And Adolf Hitler was a Catholic with some Germanic Mesopaganism blended into it. You should do your research before you make a video like this.
MrHunter6658 9 months ago 2
@MrHunter6658
I do agree on most what have said, except that atheism is NOT a philosophy !!!
saintpine 9 months ago
@MrHunter6658 Communism is a philosophy that state supersedes all i.e. secularism.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
Even if Hitler did not follow any religious book, to be an atheist requires a lack of belief in the existence of deities, so a person that believes in a deity but does not follow his religion is at most a bad Christian or Muslims or a deist, but he is NOT an atheist.
There is nothing in common to all atheists, it's not an alternative to any religion.
Most atheists are totally indistinguishable from their fellow believers, because most follow the community traditions.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine
You say: "Most atheists are totally indistinguishable from their fellow believers"
My retort: "How can theism have believers if it is not a belief????"
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam ""How can theism have believers if it is not a belief?"
I think you mean't atheism ?
Atheist may believe and follow the tradition, that could very well have religious origins, but do follow the worshiping parts, because they lack beliefs in gods.
Many of my religious friends have only leant after 20 years that I was an atheist, they thought I was a non-practicing Catholic.
saintpine 9 months ago
What had divorce got to do with unhappiness ?
People divorce because the search for happiness.
Isn’t it unhappiness to stay together with someone you do not love, and you might even have a litigious daily living ?
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine Why do atheist marry? Marriage is based in religious doctrine. Love is something found on the pages of romance novels. Commitment is more important. People who love but are not committed tend to play the field while people who are committed do not.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam
Many atheists marry in church to please family, others marry legally due to legal benefits, unfortunately nearly in every country, unmarried couples don't get much social benefits due to laws lacking to protect their rights.
Whatever commitment a couple does between each other is not my business, I don't feel it's correct to impose any form of contracts whether religious or not, I do believe that they should supplied with all the information to benefits and risks.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine If you get married in a Church, you have a Christian name, and you are buried in a Church you are a Christian. I have not been near a Church in 10 years.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam
In Italy the power and arrogance of the Catholic church si such that many atheist marry in church, or legally due to have all the legal advantages.
I will have a compulsory crucifix on my death bed even though I'm an atheist, and even Muslim can do nothing about it.
That's how things work when secularism is not perfectly applied and the majority apply their arrogance.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine Whose secularism should be applied? Again I ask are you nive enough to think just because a people are secular they will all agree? Al Capoon was secular do you agree with Capoon?
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam "se secularism should be applied?"
I have a feeling you don't understand what the word means.
"Secularism is the belief that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs."
It means that you are free to be a Muslim, I'm free to be an atheist, others are free to be whatever they want, no one’s ideas are going to be imposed on others, we should simply get together and decide commune rules to assure we can live together peacefully.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine I have a feeling you did not know I block spammers. Secularist are imperialist just like Stalin was. Every government does not allow freedom of religion it seems you have never left your corner of the world. Do you really think ll secularist think alike????? "commune rules " = communism.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam
2. Secularism is not a phylosophy of life, its a simple agreement.
In government we all must keep our religion symbol and religious preaching out of government and state offices (this applies to atheistic associations as well), everyone brings forth their ideas for a common ground to but limits (and we not interested if the ideas are personal or coming from some holy book).
On this playing ground, I don't see why Muslims should not be allowed to have 4 adult wifes in USA.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine Communist rhetoric.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam 3. Secularism.
In Italy the head of one of the Muslim associations Mr Adel Smith, was sentenced to jail (not applied), because he threw the crucifix on his mother’s hospital bed out of the window, after he tried everything to get it kindly removed.
He recently spent some time in hospital with the crucifix on his bed.
Most atheists, few Christians and some Catholc priests are on his side for his secular and humanistic rights.
We are far from a real secular state in Italy.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine I asked what is the moral incentive in atheism and you drag Adel Smith into it????
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam 4. Secularism.
In my city Milan, Italy, the left wing party has been badly criticized because it’s the only party that has put in their program the possibility of the Muslim community to build a mosque.
Many atheist would happy if religion disappears, but nevertheless most of us cannot see any reason why a Mosque cannot be built in a secular society with equal rights for all.
Most atheist are pluralists, and defend your equal rights, fighting against oppression of minorities.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine Arbitrary and esoteric irrelevancy.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam
Page 5. Secularism.
In Italy a Jewish Judge tried everything to get the gigantic crucifix removed from his courtroom, only to find that arrogant Christians placed a bigger in its place the day after.
The Crucifix is everywhere in state building due to the fascist Mussolini agreement with the Vatican in 1929.
He has put his career at risk for his rights, has lost his job, only an atheist associations is helping him in his battle for his secular and humanistic rights.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine Atheism has no moral incentive this is why you have theoretically traversed the globe within these irrelevant and off topic post of yours and still have not addressed the fact that Hitlers Final Solution was morally acceptable by atheist via scientific logic.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam how was science doesnt value or de-value life. it makes no judgment on morality or immorality- people do. the moral incentive is not only feeling good when you treat others well, it is not suffering retribution if you do something wrong.
twizelby 6 months ago
@VoyageIslam
Page 6.
Please note that most atheists in Italy support the Muslim Imams rights to have their mosque, to have a hospital bed without a crucifix above their head, but most do not support his campaign against homosexuals, but do support his rights to campaign.
They also do not support the Jewish Judge in some of his views about Israel and Palatine, but do support his rights to express them.
saintpine 9 months ago
Google the Salem witch trials . it is one examples of religious fear causing death in the states. 19 ppl were killed and Religion was the justification people used . If these ppl where to reason like we can today those 19 people would have not died by hanging.while religion was not the underlying reason to the death of the 19 ppl. the citizens of salem. It was the offical reason to kill. an Outlet for hate in there community
MrStubbsj 9 months ago
@MrStubbsj The final solution is rooted in evolution. PROVE ME WRONG!
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
I understand where your coming from but you have yet to show any scientific evidence that a person being atheist has a direct link to them being anything other then a person not acemting the possibility God. I am sry that the Hitler example didn't go though the way I intended. Yes in the end Hitler used not evolution n but natural selection aka survival lof the fittest to condemn the Jews.
MrStubbsj 9 months ago
@MrStubbsj Why did you need three posts?
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam I could not fit in in to one
MrStubbsj 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam You'd ready be doing me a biggie if you restricted your comments to a single post if you don't mind.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
I would like to know where your information on the link between atheist and the your historical figures. Atheism is not a belief at all. it is rejecting the concept of god due to lack of Evidence. that's all it is... From what I know there is no fact anywhere that that states Atheism leads to Hitler. And as for the mass killings. yes the Bible says its ok. The God of the bible and what I believe to be your god are the same. Noah's Ark is the story of God killing off all but 8 ppl
MrStubbsj 9 months ago
@MrStubbsj Hitlers final solution was based on evolution I did not use a website some of us can actually reason on our own.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@swampdonkey152000
then there are alot of mentally impaired and incredibly unquestioning people in this world
you probably dont know this but psychology has proven that this "illusion" (religion) ,as freud would have put it is actually a very important part in a healthy lifestyle
without religion the world would be much worse
ShieldOfIslam 10 months ago
@ShieldOfIslam A little FYI: Psychology is based mostly on the lunatic Sigmund Freud who was obsessive compulsive o the extent that he smoked 20 cigars a day even after his lower jaw had been removed because of cancer, he was also addicted to morphine from which he overdosed. So he is sort of a dubious source to cite.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam A little FYI: Psychology is a science, it cannot be based on a person. Freud died because he had terminal cancer and he intentionally overdosed on morphine to end his suffering. Also, Freud was a Neurologist, but hey, by all means, keep making yourself look like a retard.
swampdonkey152000 10 months ago
@swampdonkey152000 I psychology is a science it is obviously a failed one: Google Psychiatric Drugs and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America. January 1st, 2011. By Gary Kohls,
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@ShieldOfIslam You're right, there are a lot of mentally impaired and incredibly unquestioning people in the world. What are you talking about? Psychology has proven that religion is a very important part of a healthy lifestyle? You obviously have never read an actual psychological journal. Religion is nothing but wish thinking. There is nothing healthy about believing things that are not true. A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, and the truth is the truth even if no one believes it.
swampdonkey152000 10 months ago
@swampdonkey152000 you should recheck your psychology journals because new research is being done proving the effects of religion and having a spiritual bond on a persons health and lifestyle choices
"There is nothing healthy about believing things that are not true"
thats your opinion and its very wrong
whether or not its true is not the matter because i believe it to be true and you dont
but the effects of the lack of belief on someones health can be tested scientifically and it has
go check
ShieldOfIslam 10 months ago
No believing Muslim can force a woman to marry without consent and rape is punishable by death in sharia. HQ "Force not your slave girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment-" Atheism however has no moral value so you are in no condition to question our morals when you do not believe in morality, after all remember atheism is a non-belief so if you believe in morality you are not an atheist.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Are you retarded? Atheists don't believe in god. There is nothing which prohibits atheists from believing in morality. Good luck trying to make atheists look immoral when muslims blow themselves up, force women to live in cloth bags, beat their wives, mutilate the genitals of children, spread racist conspiracies about jews, stone homosexuals, adulterers, and women who have been raped, bomb newspapers for printing cartoons, and generally act like big babies. You fail at life.
swampdonkey152000 10 months ago
@swampdonkey152000 There is nothing that encourages atheist to be moral. I am not trying to make atheist look immoral it s a fact that you have no moral codes. Anyone who "blows themselves" up or kill civilians violates Qu'ran 4:29 and 5:35. When atheist like Stalin or more recently Jared Lee Loughner kill people according to atheit belief (which is non-belief), they have done nothing wrong. Your perception of Islam is prejudice and ignorant, you belong in 50's era Alabama not the internet.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Morality is innate. If left alone, good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things, but if you want a good person to do a wicked thing - that takes religion. You can quote me Koran verses until you're blue in the face, but at the end of the day all suicide bombers are muslims. You can't kill someone because of atheism which as you said is a non-belief. Stalin didn't kill all those people because he was overly concerned with intellectual honesty.
swampdonkey152000 10 months ago
@swampdonkey152000 If morality is innate why is it the Western countries where atheism is growing the most have proven to be the most morally deficient societies in history? Yes, I can quote morality from the Qu'ran but your moral outlook is esoteric and based on your personal views. Islam teaches that morality is indeed innate we do not have a born in sin philosophy however TRUE atheism i.e. secularism has a bottom line which is money whereas TRUE religion has bottom line of mutual harmony.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam They haven't been proven to be the most morally deficient in history lol. You sit here and make claims that are completely ridiculous or unprovable as if they are fact. You obviously don't know what atheism is and yet you're going to tell me that true atheism is about making money. You need to invest in a fucking dictionary. Atheism and secularism are different things. Everyone's morality is based on personal views you retard. You are so stupid it is breathtaking.
swampdonkey152000 10 months ago
America was built on the annihilation of the Natives, the misuse of the Chinese to build your rail roads the enslavement of Africans for 400 years followed by another 100 years of Jim Crow and segregation, even today America is the largest consumer of cocaine in history. America's appetite for drugs consumes more financial resources than South Africa's GDP generates. I do own a dictionary that is why I do not need profanity to express myself. Ad hominems are the last resort of the ignorant.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Whatever queer. As I recall, some pedophile warlord named Mohammad terrorized the middle east for a while and killed shit tons of people, but that still would have nothing to do with the morality of modern day muslims, except for the fact that they think that he's God's go-to guy for morality. No reasonable person in America today would say that slavery was good or cocaine is good. Muslims say everything Mohammad did was fucking perfect. That's why the muslim world is a shithole
swampdonkey152000 10 months ago
@swampdonkey15200 "Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him." Diwan Chand Sharma, The Prophets of the East, Calcutta 1935, p. l 22.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
A very nice video.
shezie125 10 months ago
Excuse me here is what you have not proved:
1. You have not presented a moral incentive of catalyst in atheism.
2.Being hat you admit this incentive is lacking we must conclude rationally that morality in atheism is at best an option.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam
"1. You have not presented a moral incentive of catalyst in atheism."
Atheism has nothing to offer, not in competition with religion, no philosophy of life.
"2.Being hat you admit this incentive is lacking we must conclude rationally that morality in atheism is at best an option."
ir's an option in everyone, you choose to follow the Koran, it's not innate.
I choose to follow my community morals that I agree on, if I move out of boundaries the law will correct me.
saintpine 9 months ago
@saintpine one comment at a time please. Why are your community moral special? Do you really think athist in India or Africa will have you same moral views? Very naive if so.
VoyageIslam 9 months ago
@VoyageIslam "Why are your community moral special?"
They are not, everyone can agree or not agree according to their own subjective moralities, the laws are simply a way to get together in a society where everyone has their own opinions.
It doesn't guarantee the best solution or the best morality, it simply places boundaries for everyone to abide whether they agree or not.
These man made laws, changing in time and place and continuously evolving, could come from various origins.
saintpine 9 months ago
thanks for this rightful speech and thanks for softening my heart :)
Allah bless you in this world and hereafter :)
TheMagicHikaru 10 months ago
@TheMagicHikaru Praise Allah.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
Comment removed
TheMagicHikaru 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Actually every sounded minded person condemns the actions of nazisms extremes.. Again you miss out that those who acted on the nazi parties wishes were "men of faith"!!!!! These same men said nothing at the time!! So again why isnt there a huge outcry when saddam gassed the kurds? or when the suicide bomber kills??? Many muslims lauded these actions!! So your moral and ethical ground fails as its "men of faith " that carry out these actions. Atheists arent a collective!!
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael continue o spam and you will be blocked if your academic capacity is depleted just say so.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam you are seriously troubled. My father fought both in Egypt, Libya and in the pacific against Japan in WW2. Guess what his religion was (or lack of). One guess.. So your argument again doesnt hold. Remember WW2 was fought on national lines not on religious. The Italian army was, maybe still is, predominately Catholic!! Mussolini was Catholic not atheist. Hitlers army was Lutheran and Catholic . Even today one cant find atheism as a subset of religions when in many armies
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael If Hitler was not religious then he was an atheist. You just admitted WW 2 was not fought on religious lines.Thanks for agreeing with me. War is an atheist stronghold.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam I never said Hitler was an atheist.. He was born and reared as a Catholic. Which last I looked was a "religious group"..More importantly his troops were religious.. Saddam's troops as well as Saddam were I suspect mainly muslims..Suicide bombers are generally muslims!! Actually any evidence the muslims in Libya knew of the "final solution"? I doubt it since only when the US army entered the camps was it really known!! So you're claiming things that could not have happened!!
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael You said WW 2 was not fought on religious lines so regardless of Hitlers religion the war was secular i.e. atheistic. Sadam was a part of the Ba'ath party :
Ba'ath Party
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party (also spelled Ba'th or Baath which means "resurrection" or "renaissance" (reddyah); Arabic: حزب البعث العربي الاشتراكي) is a secularist political party, mixing Arab nationalist and Arab socialist interests
The Ba'ath party is not Islamic.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@gadfael Can you give me anything from the Catholic Bible supporting Hitlers actions? I can give you something from Atheism to support his idea of EVOLVING a master race it is called DARWINISM! Saddams troops (who were supported by the CIA) were Arab Nationalist Saddam squashed any Islamic parties in Iraq. You say most suicide bombers are Muslims so are you saying you believe in collective judgment, if so may I point out 85% of the worlds serial killers are American.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam again you lie and mislead. I have shown Hitler believed in a "divine creator". Now using your logic. Since Hitler was not christian (your words) . And since he believed in a "creator" one can using your logic conclude the "creator" was not the gods of the Jews. So that leaves Allah.. So this evil was inspired by Allah. Your muslim so you evil! Happy with your sound logic?
As for serial killers again prove your statement!!.. Your make up so much hard to believe anything you say
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Wht Hitler believed is irrelevant his actions were that of a man who had no fear of god. Jsef Stalin and Pol Pot are two more atheist.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam so you admit Hitler was a believer! So your argument folds.. So there is no moral or ethical advantage of religion. Great your getting there! congratulations! Stalin had a religion "stalinism". If the USSR had not folded maybe there would be a new religion the church of Stalin. t was like any cult. Ditto for Pol Pot. Actually prove one cult or religion is better than another.. show one is true and not myth
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Hitler my or may not have been a believer your question is moot the real question is oes he represent Christianity? “I believe in one thing only, the power of human will.”
Joseph Stalin
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Your supposition is is Hitler was an atheist!! That is your position Its your bottom line. the bedrock of this discussion. Unfortunately it is wrong!! The basis of your discussion is based on a lie.
Hitler believed in a divine creator. So he is exactly like you in both believe in a divine creator just you call her Allah
gadfael 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam the percentage of African American serial killers is estimated to be between 13 and 22 percent.
whatever the true proportion of black serial killers in the United States is or has been, it is greater than the proportion of African Americans in the general population.
So African Americans are the main group associated with serial killing. Your African-American.. Hmmm
Im not also a fan of America and its past actions however you seem a fan of Muslim invading armies.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Are you saying Blacks are inferior? Please do not mince our words. As n Assie you have no moral ground o accuse anyone of invading anything.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam found a quote for you from Hitler!! "What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race...so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe...Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence." note CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.. He was NOT an atheist!! So your argument is false
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Where are the actions of Hitler ordained in the Bible? No matter what he said his actions were that of an atheist.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam I have shown Hitler was a believer his words! His actions and reasons are in Mein Kampf. So stop lying
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Mein Kamph means MY STRUGGLE in German thus denoting that the book is an articulation of Hitlers personal ambitions not the ambitions of every Christian. Earlier you implied hat Blacks were inferior does it irritate you that even I have a finer understanding of the English language than you seem to possess? Do not get me wrong I m not trying to sound arrogant because all praise is due to Allah. I believe this is where you either change the topic or expound an ad hominem.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam it is also his RELIGIOUS BELIEFS have you read it? if not why not? No I did not imply Negros were inferior . That is your own chip. you making up lies to prove your thoughts. Unfortunately made up facts are easily disproved as I have continuously done.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael The word "his" denote an individual and esoteric view. Your challenge is not t prov Hitlers beliefs but to prove that they were the belief of Jesus (a Jew.) So, you said murderers are not inferior? By the way the term Nergro is offensive to most Blacks but being you people still call Aboriginals Blackies I am not taken aback at all.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam no you statement was Atheism is not moral or ethical. You have to prove Hitler was an atheist. He wasn't clearly. So as a believer his beliefs allowed him to do what he did. So we agree religious men are no more moral or ethical than atheists.
I never said murders were anything apart from being murderers.
Negro is the race classification. you obviously have a serious inferiority complex. Try therapy. Aboriginals are aboriginals.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Hitler showed no signs of following the Bible but his Final Solution followed Darwin's theory of evolution to a tee.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Having sex with an unwilling person is still rape.. So your spiritual leader was probably a rapist since he had sex with his slaves. Really unethical but legal in your religion. Oh and we have already agreed Hitler was doing what Mohammed did with his camels and horses. So Hitler was following in Mohammed's steps..
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Please provide a Qu'ran verse permitting sex with an unwilling person. The Qu'rans permit slaves to marry it never stipulates anything about force you are either ignorant of the book, a liar or both. We grred that Hitler was not following one passage of any religious script and as an atheist he was one of historys greatest murderers in his attempt o prove Darwin's theory. I am glad you are admitting you see Jews as camels and horses is that the same way you see Aboriginal australians?
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam koran (33:50) those who are legally in their possession. And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . (Suras 4:3 and 33:50) I see all humans as part of the world , Kingdom - Animalia
Phylum - Chordata
Class - Mammalia
Order - Primata
Family - Hominidae
Genus - Homo
Species - Sapiens
gadfael 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Hitler wasn't trying to prove Darwin's theory. Unless Mohammed was as well. But then he endorsed rape.. So maybe the two men were similar in many ways morally and ethically.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Hitlers entire study of Eugnics were based on Darwin's theory, people will look what I am saying up and see it is true. Please provide the verse of Qu'ran that endorses rape because HQ 17:32 prohibits it and HQ 24:33 says "....Force not your slave girls to whoredom..." Pese post the verse of the Qu'ran you are misquoting. And you never answered my question: You say we should simply follow societal moral laws (Western laws are based on Judaic/Christian text) which society?
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam eugenics is NOT a Darwin invention. It was practiced 3000 years before Darwin.
Ok Sura 23:5-6 "except with regard to their wives and those who are legally in their possession, for in that case they shall not be blameworthy". note the legally in their possession or Sura 70:29-30
without consent slave or prisoner its called rape.
Which society the society I'm in. I I can work for a change in immoral or unethical laws. Put in place by believers in some unproven entity.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael The prophet said their is no marriage without a wali or guardian even a slave girl can not be married without proper consent of family. What George was rape he neither married them or gave them an option. So, you believe in forcing Western ideals from your society on the world like Caesar, Napoleon and Hitler tried to do? This hole moral debate is a charade on your point you have conceded that morality is optional in atheism so your claims lack jurisdiction.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam no but you can rape your female slaves. So Mohammed Hitler, Napoleon the Caliphs and Bush are all the same.. This I agree with you.. Seems morality is an option in all religions.
gadfael 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"
Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
Qur'an (8:69) - "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawfuland good"
explain Bukhari 47.765 & Bukhari 34:35.
gadfael 10 months ago
So finally.
1 your understanding of science is poor
2 use of Hitler as atheist is false
so one can conclude your arguments against immorality and unethical behavior is endorsed by atheism is false
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael
1. Going only by Darwin's theory of Survival of the Fittest, was Hitlers Final Solution scientifically sound, if you say no explain why not.
2. PLEASE LINK HITLER'S ACTIONS TO ANY BIBLICAL VERSE.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
Respond to this video...proof that murder and suicide is forbidden in society. You want me to find the legal codes for you?
Since atheism is not a religion nor a collective nor a group.How can Atheism make a pronouncement? Individuals can and do. What you are also saying is Sayyid Qutb was a poor scholar and his works seriously flawed.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Murder and suicide are forbidden in society because all societies have religious roots. Since atheism can not make a pronouncement then t has no moral influence and leaves right and wrong up to the individual. That is called anarchy and that is really what you are an anarchist. I am saying Islam is nased on the Qu'ran not Sayyid Qutb's opinion and I gave Qu'ranic proof suicide is forbidden (HQ 4:29) AND killing of innocents is forbidden (HQ: 5:35) Atheism forbids neither Islam does.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam you mistake secular for atheism!! Is english your second language? secular is all religions welcome but the government does not restrict nor encourages religious views. Non secular government is Saudi Arabia and the Holy See. If you live in America you should be thankful for secularism. How many churches are there in Saudi Arabia? Have there been religious wars yes. You should know a few! Atheism is lack of belief in her holiness Allah/creator/moon woman whatever.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael English is my first language because the WESTERN COLONIZERS who kidnapped my fore bearers and forced thm to come to America were Euro-Christian English speakers and they forced their language upon Blacks, Native Americans nd every non-Christian people they ever encountered. Saudi Arabia is a secular government the entire concept of a monarchy s rooted in secularism. Name one war based on a religious book in the last 100 years. Insult Allah once more and you will be blocked.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam again your history knowledge is lacking. Your fore-bearers were probably enslaved by another African tribe. I asked what your natural tongue is as you seem not to understand the differences between words. Maybe its the second grade US education system. Saudi is sharia law. Oh I'm not allowed to say anything against your beliefs but your allowed to say anything against other peoples. Ok prove Allah exists. Give definitive evidence.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael I do not know my natural tongue because English was forced on my family just like you are trying to force it on the Aboriginals in Australia. Is your natural tongue Englih? If so why can't you
1. Give me a moral incentive in atheism?
2. Cite one verse of ny scripture that denotes Hitler as a religious man.
3. Give me a source that calls Saddam Husseins Ba'ath party is based on the Qu'ran.
As far as Saudi is concerned their monarchy is not based in sharia so how can they be.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam re aboriginal comment. bull. you have zero clue. English is the universal commerce language. English is forced on you by? The local police whipped you?
Society arbitrates morals and ethics
Give me a moral incentive of religion?
Show me in the Koran where Hitler is described.
Show me Saddam Hussein was NOT a muslim
Try building a church in Saudi Arabia. Actually how many temples and churches are there in Saudi Would you campaign for a temple or church to be built in Mecca?
gadfael 10 months ago
forced on you? by a policeman wielding a club no doubt.. As for aboriginal quote bull. your knowledge is again faulty.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfa Kim the English language was forced on all African slaves who were stolen and forced to come to America in EUROPEAN owned slave ships. The English language was also forced on the Native Americans who were branded as savages just in order for Euro-Christian colonizers to have an excuse to take their land. The same Euro-Christian colonizers today feel the need to brand all oil wealthy Muslim countries as terrorist this time the goal is oil instead of land. It seem to be the way of the West.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam you know there was 300+ years of Muslim Arab slave trade before the Europeans started trading in slaves. Notice words MUSLIM and ARAB! Or is it OK for a MUSLIM ARAB to take Africans as slaves?
I haven't seen UAE ever described as a "terrorist state" so please show me the quote. Nor Saudi Arabia So show quote! I suspect this is your own feelings not actuality
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Arabs enslaved many races before Muhammad pbuh was ever born yet and still that does not exculpate the Westerners who introduced the most racist and brutal slave trade in history. A Black slave could be killed for:
1. Looking a European in the eye.
2. Speaking their native tongue.
3. READING!
4. Not working hard enough.
5. Looking at a White woman.
And more. Not only did this not exist even among pagan Arabs it never existed anywhere outside of Euro-Christian culture.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam again do you research! Slavery was abolished in the Muslim world in 1970!
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael My first cousin was killed for dating a White girl in 1976. Africa was never invaded by the Prophet Muhammad sa by the way.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam was the killers of your 1st cousin religious? My bet they were. Still should never have happened. This type of event isn't restricted to USA. Events like this happen across the world in all religious societies. Being in a girls company in Afghanistan would get both killed.
African was invaded in 644 by muslim armies. It was this that started the African to Muslim Arab slave trade. do you need a link to arab slavers?
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael The killers of my first cousin were not persecuted because we both know that in the USA it is rare for a White man to be prosecuted for killing a Black person. Africa invaded Arabia under their emirate Abraha before the Prophet Muhammad was even born. During the Prophets life time however Africa protected his followers the Qu'ran tells us to follow Muhammad Kim (HQ 3:31) not every Muslim. Would it be fair to judge you by Paul Charles Denyer?
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam Africa did nothing. Maybe an army from a society invaded. Africa is a patchwork of tribes..
on your cousin I hope the US authorities have changed their views on hate crimes. From my understanding it has but then Im not 100%.
you didnt answer did Mohammed have slaves himself? From my understanding he did
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael I answered your question. You did not answer my question should we judge all Australians by Paul Charles Denyer or all atheist by Jared Lee Loughner ? Frederick Jermaine Carter was lynched in 2010 in Mississippi no one was charged. Why is the West the only country known for lynching Blacks?
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
American homegrown terrorist Jared Lee Loughner is also an atheist Kim do we judge all atheist by him? According to atheism (which you admit has no moral obligations) Jared Lee Loughner's actions are perfectly o.k.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam can you prove Jared is an atheist? I said society has ethical and moral obligations. Or are you not part of a society? Jared broke the law Im guessing as I dont know his case. Breaking the law isnt OK.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Can you prove Jared is a Christian? You say Hitler was a Christian just because his parents were Christian so does that mean every atheist with Christian parents is not an atheist? Is breaking Islamic law not ok in atheism or do you just mean breaking Judeo-Christian based laws?
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam You are the one making claims. Prove he is. I dont know him nor do I know his crimes.
as for Hitler.. you forget those carrying out the horrors weer religious .. As for Hitlers own opinion read Adolf Hitler. (1941). My New Order. New York: Reynal & Hitchcock, p. 144.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Pol Pot is another example of an atheist committing mass murder. I WILL ASK YOU AGAIN PLEASE TELL WHAT PART OF THE BIBLE CONDONED HITLER? IN CASE YOU FORGOT CHRISTIANITY IS BASED ON THE BIBLE AND ISLAM IS BASED ON THE QU'RAN.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam as for laws.. what specific laws are you referring to? Are all Islamic laws good? Are they all ethical and moral? In Jared's case did he committed murder? That is against secular laws.
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael
Jared Loughner quotes: "In conclusion, reading the second United Sates Constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. "No I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver! "NO, WON'T TRUST IN GOD!"
Jared Lee Loughner is an American ATHEIST who is charged with A shooting that killed 6 people.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam so Saddam was a sunni muslim.. Have you shown Saddam wanst a muslim.. please give details..
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael You seem to be having a reading comprehension problem have you been tested for ADT or are you simply out of Ritalin? An atheist ho goes to Church can not be called an atheist so a Muslim or a Christian who goes contrary to their belief is n example of hat happens when people do not believe not an example of the belief.
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam *LOL* obviously you're not mentally astute enough be a medical practitioner!! Actually dio\d you finish junior high school? Saddam attended the mosque. So like Hitler was a believer. So again there is no benefit for increase morals and ethics in religion
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael What does dio\d mean?
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam did
gadfael 10 months ago
@gadfael Glad you are learning something. Shall I slow down for you?
VoyageIslam 10 months ago
@VoyageIslam did Mohammed have any slaves?
gadfael 10 months ago