100 years ago people like you tried to stop human progress altogether under the banner of utopia. more than 100 million innocent people died because of socialism, which is what the venus project is, and liberty ultimately won. now we must fight that battle again.
At present Man is Dying out of Poverty And wars like Ants Die.there is No value For A Human Being Life.But Still Some Common People Support the Present corrupted System.Either They Donot Have Enough Guts To Revolt Agianst teh Corrupted System or Day r very Much happy In Staying As Slaves of the Capitilist System.
i Some time Find it very Strange,Dat why Some People Speaks in favour of Capitilism.I think Either they r very capitilist or day Dont Have Brains to understand The Problems Which r incresing At A Steady rate At present.the Rich R Becoming More rich ANd the poor R Becoming More poor day by day.
Tyson thank you. I really appreciate. btw do you like Bill Hicks? I deeply recommend. He was ahead of his time, like some ppl now. Wish you all the best> L.
you obviously are very narrow minded , of course its not based on reality, reality fuckin sux, if life is to get any better it should be as far away from reality as possible..what is reality..this is a philosophical question, there is no clear cut answer yes what peter is proposing is radical and extreme , however, any change for the better is. he is not suggesting anything new people used to depend on each other and community before capitalism. he is suggesting an ideal world not a perfect one
mjdillaha go kill yourself fucking stupit bitch ! ;0 this here is a 100 % thrue and if you still dont undrstand that ... shitt ...it's just realy sad for you .. !! ; XXX
has anyone here gone to the venus project web site and looked at what these people have in mind? they are certifiably insane. they have no concept of reality. it is highly unnerving, you people should take a look.
FYI: I find it helpful to most people if you first in sequence familiarize yourself with the Zeitgeist Orientation which can be found on TZM official channel here on youtube.
omg...why people say things that are make up by ther OWN minds ? you shuld see the first movie that peter joseph has maket...its call ZEITGEIST ...in this movie you see that the microchip thing is not in the new society but it is just in this society with in you and i live. ( sorry for my english ) but i dont know what is the problem...i mean peter joseph explains and explains and people are like deaf or why they dont ununderstand...
because people listened to lenin when he said the same things, and it got them killed. some people know what this kind of ideology brings about as its unintended, and sometimes inteneded, consequences, and those people are smart for being afraid, because these ideas are ultimately very dangerous.
@thelion2430 acharya s back peddles on her "zeitgeist claims and sources"
search for: The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED
bible condemns sun worship, so it is not "astro-theology"
Deuteronomy 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
John Gwyn Griffiths " Pyramid Text line 632"
isis "placed opon thy phallus and thy seed comes forth into her"
Will we all be microchipped in this new wonderful society where everything is free ..sounds a bit like heaven on earth ...i smell a rat ...bit fat smelly one ..or is it a lemming ..
Wait a minute ...You probably did not understand...MY two COMMENTS was for a user whose name is GameSheriff ...im not comment the video...the video is great :)
hey, this is for ALL ...we have a new scientist ...the name is `` GameSheriff ``...he knows...no facts, no Scientific method to explain anything??? just because he says so things are so ...good work buddy ...YOU ARE KNOWING ...ahahahahahahaha
hei GameSheriff shut up...i read your comments ...you say things like.. that the law protects against crime...if this is true....why do we still have crime,in the law system??? and you talking about other meaningless things too...
what is your problem??? I Mean Peter Joseph explain things and you still ask stupid questions or criticize without good facts...
The money based society WILL fail - but at what cost? What war or fighting will ensue? Will the oppressed overcome the rich? Will a doctor have more of an impact that a sports figure? Will a teacher be appreciated as much as an infantry soldier sent to kill others because the government says it should be? Only the greedy want more than they need - but in today's society, wealth is exalted as the defining status symbol. Once we do away with that - then the human race will be able to go fwd
Game has lost all credibility although he had some spirited input - seems as though no matter how ideas are presented, to Game, they will all fail because he cannot wrap his mind around something other than a controlled society based on greed. Without the barriers that money has - anything is possible. Just look at what is possible when money is spent - technology is incredible, once someone sees a way to make money at it. The meek shall inherit the earth, once the greedy are gone - like game
All forms of society has had it's failure to wit greed is wholly responsible - no matter what laws, rules or even morals have been common or "enforced." The bottom line is and will always be, as long as the greed of one can be perpetuated, there will be some who will suffer and pay the "price" for that greed. It's not survival of the fittest, but of the ones who are able to convince others their "greed" is worth killing for. A perfect society is one where no one person can have more than you.
@mjdillaha People currently hoard money due to the system itself. Artificial scarcity, artificial debt, and cyclical consumption are paramount to the status quo, thus why people instinctively seek to gain and hoard money.
are you suggesting that people wont hoard food or other necessities in your utopia. people like you and peter joseph base your entire ideology on the false premise that competition and greed exist because of some indoctrination from our "system." the fact is, they are both part of human nature. the best we can do is have a system whereby greed produces the least amount of negative effects and competition creates positives. that is called free-market capitalism, which we no longer have, sadly.
i dont disagree with you entirely, i just think that the problems you named are caused mostly by corporate hi-jacking of government and wholesale corruption. where i most stronly disagree with you (or maybe peter josheph) is the solution to this problem. the fact is that peter joseph sounds no different from karl marx in his solution. and socialism has been proven to only produce the worst kind of tyranny.
how does it override preconceived monetary establishment? the monetary system we have was established thousands of years ago based on the basic human desires for property and the pursuit of happiness. free-market capitalism allows for that, you system does not. it cannot remove that human desire. your system simply leads to despotism and tyranny though your intentions are good.
@mjdillaha 1) One of the main premises of this system is to eventually abolish the nuances of the monetary establishment. So I really cant conceive how you cant realize this.
2) 'Free market capitalism' as you describe it allows among other things the rule of capital over every aspect of human life. An unregulated market allows for absolute capital rule.
@mjdillaha 3) My country has a freer market than yours, thus the reason for the extreme economic disparity. If you truly would like to live in a freer market, I'd suggest you to move to India or Pakistan, countries where business owners can make you work for 12 hours daily with no minimum wage standard. Now that's tyranny.
if businesses can make you work, that is not a free market. in a free market economy, nobody has to do anything, people choose to, and negotiate their prices. in america, we sadly do not have much of a free market. that is the reason for the economic problems we have. government intervention and regulation has caused the problems we now have. what country do you live in anyway? by the way, minimum wages mandated by government causes job loss. it did here in america just recently.
@mjdillaha a) A free market allows whoever has capital to employ and pay whatever they deem favorable for their business. When a business expands their purchasing power, they can buy off all other market competitors, and consolidate a monopoly, A business with such expansion over the labor market, the employee has very little option in choosing a decent pay.
the only problem is that consumers have the option of buying the product or service. and if they dont want to spend as much as the supposed monopoly is charging, that creates a market for a low price competitor, or better, a new idea, and that is how prices are kept low and growth and technology are encouraged. true monopolies are created by government when it grants exclusive privilege to a company, reducing its competition. without this, a monopoly cannot truly exist. people will not buy it.
b) Of course Minimum wage salaries reduce employment. For example, people who live in the U.S illegally are ALWAYS employed. Why ? Because of their legal status they lend themselves to being employed at miserable wages. This type of phenomenon occurs when no minimum wage is established.
Are you proposing to allow employers to pay wages equivalent to those of illegal residents ?
yes i am. and guess what, if they dont pay enough, no one will take the job, and they will be required to raise their pay to get good employees. illegal immigration is encouraged by liberals because businesses dont have to pay taxes on them and thus are way cheaper to employ. the businesses win, the illegals win, the liberals get a bigger voting block, and the american people get screwed. it gives the libs an excuse to est. minimum wage, killing jobs, thus more opportunity for social programs.
@mjdillaha 1.1) When you have big business monopolies like in industrialized countries, the labor market is vastly controlled by very few people. At this stage, wage competition is hindered. For example, your country; although it has experienced economic growth since the 70's the middle class salary has remained relatively stagnant. Why ? Because the service sector is not willing to raise wages, and the system allows them to do so.
it maintains this wage stagnancy through the help of government, which is an assault of the principles of free-market capitalism. that is my point, left by itself, the free-market will regulate itself. but big businesses love gov't regulations, because it can absorb the impact better than small busineses and thus destroy their competition. they pay off the politicians for assistance. then we look to the gov't to fix the very problem they caused by giving them more of the power they corrupted.
@mjdillaha 1.2) Have their employees quit their jobs ? Of course not. They cant afford to. And just imagine the psychological implications of this. Its devastating.
there is a much larger problem here but it all stems from gov't intervention. they created the credit crisis by forcing banks to loan to unqualified lenders. then force inflation by printing fake money to pump back into the economy they destroy and give the bill to the taxpayers they are "trying" to help. millions of jobs were lost, so people cannot find a different job so the basic safe-guards of free-markets are destroyed by the gov't. with such gov't involvement, capitalism cannot work.
What you're missing here is that capitalism, by it's very design, doesn't work. Critique it neutrally with logic. It's innherently flawed. It thrives on innefficency and scarcity to obtain cyclical consumption for profit, and it's by products are corruption, crime, hierarchy, social stratification, poverty, collusion and corruption.
Your need to "blame" a political party is preventing you from seeing the factual flaws of our economic system. I'm not insulting you, it's just that the liberal/republican b.s. is irrelevant divisions that ultimately support the same elitist b.s. without even noticing.
A bucket of crabs all fighting each other comes to mind....the bucket being capitalism, and our govt and upheld institutions preventing the bucket from toppling over.
im not blaming a party or institution. i blame a mind-set best described as statism (credit to mark levin). i see the factual flaws of our "system" and they are many. and statism has caused most of them. capitalism works, very well in fact, but has not been truly tried in america in over 100 years.
But capitalism, by its very design cannot work. It doesn't work. It's nothing but mass consumption of goods with no human concern or assessment of resources. Material goods are poorly made so that people have to buy more quickly so that more profit can be made. Medical: Cures for diseases go unheeded b/c there's more money in treatment than in cures. Seriously, that's insanity. I could go on and on. It's time you did a critique of capitalism. It's killing us socially too.
your argument is unfounded. with pure capitalism, if human concern and/or assessment of resources was important to the consumers, which, i think, to a large degree it is, then consumers would have the choice to purchase from the businesses that share their concerns. as far as your medical argument goes, it is true that treatment makes more money than cures, but once somebody finds out he can beat his competition with a cure, he will be the only one making money. but the FDA prohibits this.
its similar to the major securities exchanges in the US. before internet, it was much more difficult to buy and sell stocks. and brokerage firms had customers paying for services they wouldnt dream of paying for now because a broker had to do alot more work for you to make a purchase. now, you can do it all by yourself. you just put in an order and it gets filled. this hurt the brokerage firms greatly. but what if the govt didnt allow us to trade via internet? continued...
this is exactly the purpose of the FDA. they have destroyed competition between drug companies, doctors and insurance companies. in fact, their regulations drove costs up so much that it gave insurance companies a reason to exist. that is not capitalism, in fact, it is a form of statism. the state controls prices and purchases. how is that working for america?
The truth is you have no solutions either, you don't want to fix society, you're just taking advantage of the economic crisis which shaked people's faiths in capitalism, to spread your message. If you actually wanted to improve society, You wouldn't advocate a system that we already know from the past to be a complete and utter failure in every regard
It is sustainable, it's been standing for decades and will continue standing. The only thing Zeitgeist offers and the system it advocates is one we already from the past to be an unsustainable, abject failure: communism.
If it was sustainable things would be getting better in these areas, not worse. We hold 25% of wolds prison population. We increase need for welfare. Taxes rise. Forclosers. Military has Highest rate of suicides. The gap between poor & rich increases. unemployment rises & "is irreversible". Health care would be affordable. Homeless families rise. We wouldn't double the money supply & continue devalueing it. Everything regarding the environment from top soil to the meat we eat.
Again, even if all that was truth, how would it justify us turning to an oppresive, dictatorial system which has already been proven a failure like Communism?
There are differences between TVP & communism that you don't acknowledge which make communism a poor choice of words, so I'm not sure what your definition is.
I don't see why you use the word "Oppresive" rearding TVP?
Also, You seem to be under the impression that pure Capitalism can't fail & isn't self destructive in the long run, leading to Fascism. Thats yet to be decided, truth is we don't know where this system is going.
There are no major differences between TVP and Communism, both of you have the same goal: a worldwide totalitarian, non-democratic dictatorship ruled by Far-Left politics, where everyone is brainwashed from birth to follow your ideals.
As for Capitalism, it can exist both in a dictatorial and democratic way, unlike Socialism/Communism/TVP which can't exist democratically. So far I haven't seen any evidence that Capitalism inevitably deteriorates to Fascim, quite the contrary...
We don't define Capitalism in the same way. For example you don't seem to use the word "Dictatorship" to define Capitalism when you know there are "a thousand" rules of what we Have to do & Can Not do of our own 'Free Will' creating Opression. New movie 'Food Inc.' shows the dictator style of capitalism, government, & $. So I think our definitions of Capitalism vary too much to converse on Politics, economic issues, and The Venus Project. We'd be better off talking about video games instead
By rules, I'm guessing you mean laws, every society needs to have them in order to survive. Heck, even your ideal society has them, you wanna outlaw private property and religious rights, if I'm not mistaken. That's a law that will have to enforced like laws nowadays are, and it's a pretty damn oppressive law at that.
Yes, you are mistaken. There is no plan in TVP which says people will be denied rights to religious freedom. In fact people will have increased freedom to develop their spiritualism. Instead of sitting behind a desk, they'll be able to express their undying obedience to their supreme spiritual masters all day. They'll have the freedom to sing and dance and pray and try to "brainwash" other people. since they won't have any "work" commitments.
How can the Venus Project be an "already proven failure" when it's only theoretical? It hasn't been implemented or tested in anyway so your belief is purely that, just a belief.
I'm not going to assume as to which country you live in, but would you agree that you could probably find some segment of your own society which defines it's current system of government as being oppressive and dictatorial?
It's a shame you don't have any idea how to change the world for the better. Keep trying though.
The Venus Project may not have been put in practice yet, but its ideal of a perfect society was during the USSR, and it failed miserably. Understand ocne andfor all: COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK.
To answer your question, yes I do, but Zeitgeit's world isn't it, and no, I don't have any idea how we can change our world for the better, but goddamn I'm not gonna despair and turn to communism for it!
@GameSheriff You're a poor brainwashed idiot. The consecutive imperialistic American governments made you equate Communism with torture. Stalin was never a Communist to begin with. Stalin was a nationalistic State Capitalist.
Not even Cubans are communists. Anyway, the embargo has been totally inefficient so you can at least tell who's the one avoiding progress.
But the American governments have been successful to blind people, making them ignorant, defenseless and stupid.
Communism, Socialism, Capitalism are all systems based on the exchange of labor for money. The Resource Based Economy of the "Zeitgeist World" is not, so how can they be considered the same, even on a theoretical basis?
I'm glad you answered Yes, but you still didn't post your alternative solution....
Congratulations. That's the longest, most intelligent dialog of opposing opinions I've seen on this issue. Stop the infantile name calling or you'll risking losing the respect of those who you may have convinced otherwise.
zeitgeist addendum clearly uses the marxist way of seeing history, but so did almost everibody who lived after marx, he was brilliant but way to ahead of his time. zeitgeist is completely different, but still non capitalistic, and they are right. not everybody against capitalism is a socialist or such.... zeitgeist is platonism, is the principle of "know thyself" taken in a world scale. it is confucius too. it is the government of reason, science and philosophy united.
Seeing this video makes me think it is impossible to make a transition to a world much like the venus project implies. This only seems possible if the entire population is raised from birth in an inviroment that is already shaped as in the venus project. Is there anybody who knows of another way of transition from this sick world to something else?
Many anthropologists have noted that the number it took to change society was a minority compared to the larger majority going along with the social order - often only 10% or less of the population.
Just do your bit to bring people to understand this social direction and watch it grow.
However, the current system deliberately forces scarcity on certain industries and thus forces people to a competitive market. The current system is unsustainable.
Competition in the future will be different from how we understand it.
Jacque Fresco says that Competition is Socially Offensive, we will always need to compete though. How do you think you think men can persuade a woman they like when there are three men interested in her? You have to compete.
Exactly. Jacque Fresco is nothing more than a drop-out, he's pissed because he's at the bottom of the food chain, so he wants to end competition so there can't be people above him. It is Man's nature to compete over everything, from material possessions to mates. Aside from that, competition is how we improve our character, when we compete, we improve ourselves, become stronger.
I agreed with it all except for one thing. He mentioned that we don't have freedom to choose what job we do. Well, just do well at school and many job opportunities open up to you.
that may be true now, but not for long as the reality of "Technological Unemployment" becomes more and more obvious (as employment rates fall and production rates rise) regardless of your education, companies will continue to employ automated practices in regards to production, for automation is, and will continue to be, the superior choice.
Communism is one of the most common misunderstandings about the Zeitgeist Movement. For that system still existed in a Monetary System, that still need to protect is own establishment with a Military, Laws, Wage Slave Labor, and so fourth. If you will take a closer look (read/watch the Activists Orientation Guide & listen to the blog talk podcasts) Communism resembles nothing of a Resource Based Economy.
How is Peter a commie ? You do realize that he opposes the federal income tax, and in his latest radio address he claims to support a free market - which we don't have - as a transition to a more sustainable system.
He supports a free market system? He doesn't even support the market or trading! Peter Joseph advocates a centrally planned economy, a deeply flawed economic model practiced by the USSR in which the state or government have control over all means of production and decide what to produce and in what quantity. The products are then distributed amongst the people. This system was so incredibly inefficient that it spelled doom for the USSR.
I've watched Peter Joseph's response to Ed Griffin's accusation of Marxism, which can barely qualify as a response, since all he did was complain about dualities and people nowadays are ignorant.
... the truth is computers are just tools, they do whatever the programmers tell them to do. In this case the programmers would be the true rules of society. Ok, now here are the things that define you as communists:
- Abolition of religion
- Abolition of private propery
- Advocation of a centrally planned economy
- Abolition of trade
- Enforcement of social equality at all costs
- Reeducation, and by that I mean brainwashing, of the population from birth to abandon all traces...
It allows people to be what they want?! I don't really understand how if 90% of all jobs will be phased out, besides people can't be whatever they want, they can only be what they're good at, if they want to be succesful. But anyway you take away the rewards, and essentially all the meaning of a profession, no one will want to work. If being a lawyer or a doctor is the same thing as being a construction worker, who the hell wants to work his a** off to become a doctor or a lawyer?
You can be whatever you want if you're capable. That requries learning like in any profession.
The reward would be that you are choosing to do something you want to do and enjoy for whatever personal reason that may be, not being forced into it due to money/social pressures.
By succesful, I mean being good at it. You may want to be doctor, but you may not have the talent or the natural inclination to it. Therefore you should not become a doctor.
That's no reward, that's an utter lack of incentive: have you ever even considered that maybe people don't want to work if they can spend all day sitting on their a** without doing nothing? And without any pressures, does who do work won't feel the need to improve their skill. For instance, if someone thinks their doctor is incompetent and decide to go somewhere else, the incompetent doctor won't be penalized for it, and therefore won't feel the need to improve himself.
Yes, I know people that would sit on their ass all day. But eventually the penny would drop and they'd realise that if they do something/make something/become knowledgable enough to create something that helps them, then it'd also help others.
Or they could do whatever they enjoy. Music, art etc. Again, all that can be shared with others for enjoyment.
Incentives could change. So many people volunteer already.
Do you have any evidence for this? Do you have any evidence at all to sustain that ridiculous belief that people will willingly work for nothing and without any reward?
I'll tell you know: you're wrong if you think all volunteers work out of the charity of their hearts. I have a cousin who volunteers just to impress his gf.
You miss the point here, he's doing because he has an incentive, monetary or not. You want to take away all incentive, except knowing it is for the common good, and that can't even be qualified as an incentive.
It could vary. For me personally I would do it because I'd get a sense of satisfation knowing that I'm helping contribute to other peoples happiness or comfort.
I guess I would do it if it impressed chicks too.
Also if it helped me to learn something specific to a subject of interest.
Maybe just for the experience. It all depends I suppose.
... of individuality, ambition, greed and Human nature (which by the way is something that scares the shit out of me).
And last but certainly not least:
- The abolition of democracy.
With that in mind, let's see what your movement really advocates: a non-democratic, totalitarian society ruled by Far Leftist government, that outlaws religion, where people are manipulated from birth to embrace its ideals. GEE, WHY DOES THAT SOUND SOOOO FAMILIAR???!!!
Sure it won't be reeducation, you're only gonna take young children and force your Leftist ideals on them from birth, that's not reeducation at all.
Look, there's a reason Marx defended a transitional state of government in which people were reeducated, he realized that people were naturally greedy and ambitious, and yes they are, just look at our History, when did Man ever say "Ok, I think I have enough now..." Never! We always wanted more and we were always willing to fight for it...
There is no such thing as reeducation. There is only education. If you learn something, then learn a better way of doing that something then its simply education.
Greed has not been proven to be natural. I do not think I'm greedy. You could probably add 300,000+ to that with whoevers in the movement. God knows how many more.
Scarcity is a problem but that is what the Venus Project aims to solve by eliminating scarcity.
Our History proves it beyond doubt that the Human being is greedy, even the few who had everything (or what people at the time thought was everything) wanted more. And you too are greedy, you just support this movement because its ideals sound good, but if you were forced to live in a shack in the name of equality and had to settle for whatever the government decided was fair for you to have (which probably would be only the bare essentials), you would not be pleased.
Actually it has, absolutely. For God's sake, even Marx recognized it.
Actually if the Venus Project becomes a reality you're actually very likely to live in a shack, as they would take away your goods that they consider "excessive" in the name of equality.
... Marx knew this, and he (wrongfully) believed that that greed and that ambition could be snuffed out through reeducation, of course, as the failure of the USSR proved, it could not and any attempt to do so will have horrible results. The real question here is: can you prove otherwise? That Man isn't naturally greedy despite all of our History indicating that he is? The answer is no, you can't. You're supporting a society that forces people to repress their humanity and natural urges.
Edcuation would only be part of the change. The abundance would come from technology producing what we need without a price or a lifetime of labour.
Man may be naturally greedy...but you can't deny that man can also be changed dramatically by the environment. And thats what we want to do.
If educating someone and giving them information and comfort that takes away their tendancy to be abborant and aggressive then how can that be a bad thing?
So you're educating man to against his nature? Yeah, that worked wonderfully in the past. Even if you have a greater resource output than our current society, you would hardly be able to give your people an high lifestyle if you distributed them equally amongst everyone. More than that you force people to "settle" for whatever you find fair for them to have, and I can assure you they won't.
So you say, but where are your proofs? And even if there were, that doesn't change the fact that people will be forced to settle for whatever the world government found fair for them to have. Don't you see the free market actually gives people freedom? It allows them to have what they want, you're suggesting we force people to having only what the government finds fair for them to have. Which by the way, is also communism.
How does that prove people will settle for whatever you find fair for them to have?
Who would allocate the resources if not the government?
You continue to say it, I continue not to believe it until I sees proofs. And even if it's true, and we haveenough to support everyone, it doens't matter because people won't settle for essentials .
People could have whatever they wanted but they would be educated to know that they don't need extreme amounts of anything as its all free. Theres no scarcity to trigger than behaviour.
The resources would be allocated via a computer system that would have access to all current world resources. So it could instantly make the best decision on where things are required.
We have enough for more than essentials. Look around. How many PC's/phones/TV's/Cars have you had in your life time?
A centrally-planned economy was the economic model practiced by the USSR and the one that Peter Joseph advocates. In this economic model the state or government (or whatever you wanna call it), control all means of production, and decide what to produce and in what quantity, and how to distribute it amongst the people. This model however is incredibly inefficient, as the governmnent is unable to predict what the people will need and in what quantities, which causes scarcity of some products...
The people control it. If you want something then you'd probably get it. So long as it wasn't something incredibly meaningless like a 100 bedroom house or a jet.
No predictions needed. You could order something much like today but it would be made quickly by machines shortly after you placed your order.
The systems are different, USSR had money, corruption, armies, laws, etc.
We've hard all before... that was the same speech Lenin used: the people will be in power, etc.
The state is the representative of the people so if it controls all means of production you could say the people is in control, in a way.
Do you really believe you could just go up and ask for something and you'd instantly have it. There would be planning in that model, what about food? Its production would have to be planned in advance.
The USSR had corruption, what makes you believe Peter Joseph and his crew won't be corrupted by power (and do you really wanna see your fate in the hands of an unwashed hippy?)
The USSR had armies, so will you need to have if your society ever takes off, otherwise any shmuck can take you over.
The USSR had laws, so will you need to have if you want your society to last more than a day. Without laws there is chaos, a society can't survive in chaos.
There is no power to be had in this system. That is one of the main points.
Hippies??? I've talked to and met a few Zeitgeisters and Venus Project activists and none of them are hippys. They've actually all been professionals or what society would call "successful" people.
There will be no armies after the transition.
There will be very few laws and eventually maybe even no laws.
You haven't looked at the information available, please do. Everything you've stated has been explained
There HAS to be power, if there isn't who will decide how much of each resource to produce and how to allocate it, or anything for that matter?
They have hippie ideals and hippie goals, that makes them hippies.
If there are no armies or laws, the society has the life-expectancy of a fruit fly. Armies are essential to defend from outside and inside threats, and they make the people feel safe.
Yeah, I've heard that rhetoric before... after everyone has been "reeducated" into becoming mindless sheep slave to the will of the collective, the power institutions will dissapear. When will the commies goddamn learn their ideals just don't fit in with humans?
why quote "re-educated" like someone said it? if you're aware of progress in the major relevant fields then you should be educated enough to see that our political landscape is already radically different because of certain technological/intellectual/medical advances. the next step is a logical one, while you say "ideals" like i hold some delusional fairy beliefs. you're like some whacked out general who thinks his cat is plotting a communist revolution.
Dude, you can have more resources than you have now, but if you use a pre-planned economy, in which the state or whatever the hell your movement wants to call it controls them all and distributes them how they see fit, then people still won't be happy, because they're forced to settle. Plus, the state has to predict what people will want in how much quantity. Do you really think they can handle that much responsability, because all previous experiments show they can't.
That's where automated service comes in. Internet click delivery. Computers simply look at the statistics and manage the appropriate resources. If worldwide bread consumption increases then bread production increases and vice-versa.
Besides they would only be able to react and increase bread production after the scarcity of bread started taking effect. In our society, when a product is scarce it's market price increases, signaling the producers to make more of it. So the effects felt by scarcity are minimal at worst.
Yes I know I'm European too. But really, think about it; if prices aren't at least high enough to make a profit, the producers won't have any money and won't be able to produce more food in the future.
don't forget we're still discovering. all the greatest minds in the world are working towards understanding what we are capable of as human beings. it's a form of evolution. we'll see how essential power structure and law enforcement is as we continue to progress, as long as we ALLOW progress.
Laws are essential to prevent chaos, if there's no law, tehre's nothing preventing me from going to my next door neighbors house and shot him in the face. Chaos and anarchy ensue.
I understand where you're coming from. I was asking the same questions.
The only way I got all my answers was by looking at the information thats there.
If you find that after going through it all it's still communism and you have proof, then please let me know, I'll help you to tell others. If not, then maybe it will give you something to think about.
But every point you've raised has been answered. Please look at the information provided on the websites and videos/ebooks etc.
And I'm saying this is a waste of time until you inform yourself on the FACTS.
If you're not willing to look at the information then so be it. You remain willfully ignorant.
But regardless of what you think or say, ALL of your points have been answered. If you're not willing to look then that says a lot about the kind of human being you are.
I'm not going to write essays in YouTube comment sections when the information is right there on a website!
Look, I saw PJ's answer to Edward Griffin's claim that his ideals are marxist, and it didn't even qualify as an answer, he spent all the time bitching about how people nowadays are ignorant and stuff.
They all have pages of sources which go into detail about human behaviour and having/not having laws etc. They clearly state the difference between communism and what this movement is about. It's all there just for you.
great vid, can i see the q&a anywhere?
BreKrach1 9 months ago
This is another weapon in theLuciferian end game...
jediflow 1 year ago
@animesoular
100 years ago people like you tried to stop human progress altogether under the banner of utopia. more than 100 million innocent people died because of socialism, which is what the venus project is, and liberty ultimately won. now we must fight that battle again.
mjdillaha 1 year ago
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alinasofials 1 year ago
My god, how did the audience not fall asleep?
1madaboutguitar 1 year ago
@1madaboutguitar because they think.
Baraccus 1 year ago
@Baraccus ...of other more stimulating things, yes im sure.
1madaboutguitar 1 year ago
@1madaboutguitar like making money, war on terrorism or politics?
Baraccus 1 year ago
@Baraccus Nothing wrong with making money. And thinking about politics is hardly a crime is it?
1madaboutguitar 1 year ago
Thanks for putting this up Tyson
i'm connecting with you on facebook
much love
Clay
csvge 1 year ago
At present Man is Dying out of Poverty And wars like Ants Die.there is No value For A Human Being Life.But Still Some Common People Support the Present corrupted System.Either They Donot Have Enough Guts To Revolt Agianst teh Corrupted System or Day r very Much happy In Staying As Slaves of the Capitilist System.
dushwapno 1 year ago
i Some time Find it very Strange,Dat why Some People Speaks in favour of Capitilism.I think Either they r very capitilist or day Dont Have Brains to understand The Problems Which r incresing At A Steady rate At present.the Rich R Becoming More rich ANd the poor R Becoming More poor day by day.
dushwapno 1 year ago
Tyson thank you. I really appreciate. btw do you like Bill Hicks? I deeply recommend. He was ahead of his time, like some ppl now. Wish you all the best> L.
sugalinja 1 year ago
you obviously are very narrow minded , of course its not based on reality, reality fuckin sux, if life is to get any better it should be as far away from reality as possible..what is reality..this is a philosophical question, there is no clear cut answer yes what peter is proposing is radical and extreme , however, any change for the better is. he is not suggesting anything new people used to depend on each other and community before capitalism. he is suggesting an ideal world not a perfect one
puzzey83 1 year ago
very well put
timothyforvendetta 1 year ago
mjdillaha go kill yourself fucking stupit bitch ! ;0 this here is a 100 % thrue and if you still dont undrstand that ... shitt ...it's just realy sad for you .. !! ; XXX
antonchigurh11 1 year ago
has anyone here gone to the venus project web site and looked at what these people have in mind? they are certifiably insane. they have no concept of reality. it is highly unnerving, you people should take a look.
mjdillaha 1 year ago
FYI: I find it helpful to most people if you first in sequence familiarize yourself with the Zeitgeist Orientation which can be found on TZM official channel here on youtube.
I hope this helps.
blaziermissy 1 year ago
Thank you for posting, Tyson. It's awesome to see people taking responsiblity for changing the world and spreading awareness, educating the public.
blaziermissy 1 year ago
' it maintains this wage stagnancy through the help of government..'
Please explain this.
HailRasec 2 years ago
See the orientation guide and it will help you to understand the cyclical cycle of our economic system.
blaziermissy 1 year ago
omg...why people say things that are make up by ther OWN minds ? you shuld see the first movie that peter joseph has maket...its call ZEITGEIST ...in this movie you see that the microchip thing is not in the new society but it is just in this society with in you and i live. ( sorry for my english ) but i dont know what is the problem...i mean peter joseph explains and explains and people are like deaf or why they dont ununderstand...
thelion2430 2 years ago 7
So true LION !!!
But i believe it takes some time(or sometimes never) for some folks to really wake up; Or be willing to take the red-pill.
zubayar 2 years ago
because people listened to lenin when he said the same things, and it got them killed. some people know what this kind of ideology brings about as its unintended, and sometimes inteneded, consequences, and those people are smart for being afraid, because these ideas are ultimately very dangerous.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thelion2430 acharya s back peddles on her "zeitgeist claims and sources"
search for: The 'Real' Zeitgeist Challenge" DEBUNKED
bible condemns sun worship, so it is not "astro-theology"
Deuteronomy 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
John Gwyn Griffiths " Pyramid Text line 632"
isis "placed opon thy phallus and thy seed comes forth into her"
NOT A VIRGIN BIRTH
notjam3 4 months ago
Will we all be microchipped in this new wonderful society where everything is free ..sounds a bit like heaven on earth ...i smell a rat ...bit fat smelly one ..or is it a lemming ..
VooDooU22X 2 years ago
Wait a minute ...You probably did not understand...MY two COMMENTS was for a user whose name is GameSheriff ...im not comment the video...the video is great :)
thelion2430 2 years ago
hey, this is for ALL ...we have a new scientist ...the name is `` GameSheriff ``...he knows...no facts, no Scientific method to explain anything??? just because he says so things are so ...good work buddy ...YOU ARE KNOWING ...ahahahahahahaha
thelion2430 2 years ago
hei GameSheriff shut up...i read your comments ...you say things like.. that the law protects against crime...if this is true....why do we still have crime,in the law system??? and you talking about other meaningless things too...
what is your problem??? I Mean Peter Joseph explain things and you still ask stupid questions or criticize without good facts...
thelion2430 2 years ago
what happened to the Q&A session?
meadowsirl 2 years ago
The money based society WILL fail - but at what cost? What war or fighting will ensue? Will the oppressed overcome the rich? Will a doctor have more of an impact that a sports figure? Will a teacher be appreciated as much as an infantry soldier sent to kill others because the government says it should be? Only the greedy want more than they need - but in today's society, wealth is exalted as the defining status symbol. Once we do away with that - then the human race will be able to go fwd
RedTailHawkMedia 2 years ago
Game has lost all credibility although he had some spirited input - seems as though no matter how ideas are presented, to Game, they will all fail because he cannot wrap his mind around something other than a controlled society based on greed. Without the barriers that money has - anything is possible. Just look at what is possible when money is spent - technology is incredible, once someone sees a way to make money at it. The meek shall inherit the earth, once the greedy are gone - like game
RedTailHawkMedia 2 years ago
All forms of society has had it's failure to wit greed is wholly responsible - no matter what laws, rules or even morals have been common or "enforced." The bottom line is and will always be, as long as the greed of one can be perpetuated, there will be some who will suffer and pay the "price" for that greed. It's not survival of the fittest, but of the ones who are able to convince others their "greed" is worth killing for. A perfect society is one where no one person can have more than you.
RedTailHawkMedia 2 years ago
No that's a communist society, and communism is freaking anti-human, people should be allowed to have all they can have.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
what about the greedy people who will want to hoard wealth in your perfect society?
mjdillaha 2 years ago
@mjdillaha People currently hoard money due to the system itself. Artificial scarcity, artificial debt, and cyclical consumption are paramount to the status quo, thus why people instinctively seek to gain and hoard money.
HailRasec 2 years ago
are you suggesting that people wont hoard food or other necessities in your utopia. people like you and peter joseph base your entire ideology on the false premise that competition and greed exist because of some indoctrination from our "system." the fact is, they are both part of human nature. the best we can do is have a system whereby greed produces the least amount of negative effects and competition creates positives. that is called free-market capitalism, which we no longer have, sadly.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
i dont disagree with you entirely, i just think that the problems you named are caused mostly by corporate hi-jacking of government and wholesale corruption. where i most stronly disagree with you (or maybe peter josheph) is the solution to this problem. the fact is that peter joseph sounds no different from karl marx in his solution. and socialism has been proven to only produce the worst kind of tyranny.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
@mjdillaha Socialism as you know is basically a state monetary/debt system with inclinations for egalitarianism.
The terms "socialism" or "capitalism" serve as mere cop outs to justify a status quo.
This system overrides any preconceived monetary establishment. It is far far from socialism.
HailRasec 2 years ago
how does it override preconceived monetary establishment? the monetary system we have was established thousands of years ago based on the basic human desires for property and the pursuit of happiness. free-market capitalism allows for that, you system does not. it cannot remove that human desire. your system simply leads to despotism and tyranny though your intentions are good.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
@mjdillaha 1) One of the main premises of this system is to eventually abolish the nuances of the monetary establishment. So I really cant conceive how you cant realize this.
2) 'Free market capitalism' as you describe it allows among other things the rule of capital over every aspect of human life. An unregulated market allows for absolute capital rule.
HailRasec 2 years ago
@mjdillaha 3) My country has a freer market than yours, thus the reason for the extreme economic disparity. If you truly would like to live in a freer market, I'd suggest you to move to India or Pakistan, countries where business owners can make you work for 12 hours daily with no minimum wage standard. Now that's tyranny.
HailRasec 2 years ago
if businesses can make you work, that is not a free market. in a free market economy, nobody has to do anything, people choose to, and negotiate their prices. in america, we sadly do not have much of a free market. that is the reason for the economic problems we have. government intervention and regulation has caused the problems we now have. what country do you live in anyway? by the way, minimum wages mandated by government causes job loss. it did here in america just recently.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
@mjdillaha a) A free market allows whoever has capital to employ and pay whatever they deem favorable for their business. When a business expands their purchasing power, they can buy off all other market competitors, and consolidate a monopoly, A business with such expansion over the labor market, the employee has very little option in choosing a decent pay.
HailRasec 2 years ago
the only problem is that consumers have the option of buying the product or service. and if they dont want to spend as much as the supposed monopoly is charging, that creates a market for a low price competitor, or better, a new idea, and that is how prices are kept low and growth and technology are encouraged. true monopolies are created by government when it grants exclusive privilege to a company, reducing its competition. without this, a monopoly cannot truly exist. people will not buy it.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
@mjdillaha
b) Of course Minimum wage salaries reduce employment. For example, people who live in the U.S illegally are ALWAYS employed. Why ? Because of their legal status they lend themselves to being employed at miserable wages. This type of phenomenon occurs when no minimum wage is established.
Are you proposing to allow employers to pay wages equivalent to those of illegal residents ?
HailRasec 2 years ago
yes i am. and guess what, if they dont pay enough, no one will take the job, and they will be required to raise their pay to get good employees. illegal immigration is encouraged by liberals because businesses dont have to pay taxes on them and thus are way cheaper to employ. the businesses win, the illegals win, the liberals get a bigger voting block, and the american people get screwed. it gives the libs an excuse to est. minimum wage, killing jobs, thus more opportunity for social programs.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
@mjdillaha 1.1) When you have big business monopolies like in industrialized countries, the labor market is vastly controlled by very few people. At this stage, wage competition is hindered. For example, your country; although it has experienced economic growth since the 70's the middle class salary has remained relatively stagnant. Why ? Because the service sector is not willing to raise wages, and the system allows them to do so.
HailRasec 2 years ago
it maintains this wage stagnancy through the help of government, which is an assault of the principles of free-market capitalism. that is my point, left by itself, the free-market will regulate itself. but big businesses love gov't regulations, because it can absorb the impact better than small busineses and thus destroy their competition. they pay off the politicians for assistance. then we look to the gov't to fix the very problem they caused by giving them more of the power they corrupted.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
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@mjdillaha 'it maintains this wage stagnancy through the help of government'
Please explain this.
HailRasec 2 years ago
@mjdillaha 1.2) Have their employees quit their jobs ? Of course not. They cant afford to. And just imagine the psychological implications of this. Its devastating.
HailRasec 2 years ago
there is a much larger problem here but it all stems from gov't intervention. they created the credit crisis by forcing banks to loan to unqualified lenders. then force inflation by printing fake money to pump back into the economy they destroy and give the bill to the taxpayers they are "trying" to help. millions of jobs were lost, so people cannot find a different job so the basic safe-guards of free-markets are destroyed by the gov't. with such gov't involvement, capitalism cannot work.
mjdillaha 2 years ago
What you're missing here is that capitalism, by it's very design, doesn't work. Critique it neutrally with logic. It's innherently flawed. It thrives on innefficency and scarcity to obtain cyclical consumption for profit, and it's by products are corruption, crime, hierarchy, social stratification, poverty, collusion and corruption.
It factual, emotional attachment aside.
blaziermissy 1 year ago
Your need to "blame" a political party is preventing you from seeing the factual flaws of our economic system. I'm not insulting you, it's just that the liberal/republican b.s. is irrelevant divisions that ultimately support the same elitist b.s. without even noticing.
A bucket of crabs all fighting each other comes to mind....the bucket being capitalism, and our govt and upheld institutions preventing the bucket from toppling over.
blaziermissy 1 year ago
im not blaming a party or institution. i blame a mind-set best described as statism (credit to mark levin). i see the factual flaws of our "system" and they are many. and statism has caused most of them. capitalism works, very well in fact, but has not been truly tried in america in over 100 years.
mjdillaha 1 year ago
But capitalism, by its very design cannot work. It doesn't work. It's nothing but mass consumption of goods with no human concern or assessment of resources. Material goods are poorly made so that people have to buy more quickly so that more profit can be made. Medical: Cures for diseases go unheeded b/c there's more money in treatment than in cures. Seriously, that's insanity. I could go on and on. It's time you did a critique of capitalism. It's killing us socially too.
blaziermissy 1 year ago
your argument is unfounded. with pure capitalism, if human concern and/or assessment of resources was important to the consumers, which, i think, to a large degree it is, then consumers would have the choice to purchase from the businesses that share their concerns. as far as your medical argument goes, it is true that treatment makes more money than cures, but once somebody finds out he can beat his competition with a cure, he will be the only one making money. but the FDA prohibits this.
mjdillaha 1 year ago
its similar to the major securities exchanges in the US. before internet, it was much more difficult to buy and sell stocks. and brokerage firms had customers paying for services they wouldnt dream of paying for now because a broker had to do alot more work for you to make a purchase. now, you can do it all by yourself. you just put in an order and it gets filled. this hurt the brokerage firms greatly. but what if the govt didnt allow us to trade via internet? continued...
mjdillaha 1 year ago
this is exactly the purpose of the FDA. they have destroyed competition between drug companies, doctors and insurance companies. in fact, their regulations drove costs up so much that it gave insurance companies a reason to exist. that is not capitalism, in fact, it is a form of statism. the state controls prices and purchases. how is that working for america?
mjdillaha 1 year ago
The truth is you have no solutions either, you don't want to fix society, you're just taking advantage of the economic crisis which shaked people's faiths in capitalism, to spread your message. If you actually wanted to improve society, You wouldn't advocate a system that we already know from the past to be a complete and utter failure in every regard
GameSheriff 2 years ago
GameSheriff says "no, I don't have any idea how we can change our world for the better, but....."
That is what I hear when people think the current system, bad as it is, is sustainable.
They think that 10 months from now will be like it is today.
TVP acknowledges this system is not sustainable & offers an attempt to create a sustainable environment.
The economy & the symptoms it creates causes more damage then people & some species can & will be able to endure. It's about sustainability.
ImproveYourMagic 2 years ago
It is sustainable, it's been standing for decades and will continue standing. The only thing Zeitgeist offers and the system it advocates is one we already from the past to be an unsustainable, abject failure: communism.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
ImproveYourMagic 2 years ago
Again, even if all that was truth, how would it justify us turning to an oppresive, dictatorial system which has already been proven a failure like Communism?
GameSheriff 2 years ago
There are differences between TVP & communism that you don't acknowledge which make communism a poor choice of words, so I'm not sure what your definition is.
I don't see why you use the word "Oppresive" rearding TVP?
Also, You seem to be under the impression that pure Capitalism can't fail & isn't self destructive in the long run, leading to Fascism. Thats yet to be decided, truth is we don't know where this system is going.
ImproveYourMagic 2 years ago
There are no major differences between TVP and Communism, both of you have the same goal: a worldwide totalitarian, non-democratic dictatorship ruled by Far-Left politics, where everyone is brainwashed from birth to follow your ideals.
As for Capitalism, it can exist both in a dictatorial and democratic way, unlike Socialism/Communism/TVP which can't exist democratically. So far I haven't seen any evidence that Capitalism inevitably deteriorates to Fascim, quite the contrary...
GameSheriff 2 years ago
... Capitalist societies enjoy the most civil rights and political freedoms, whereas Socialist/Leftists societies are usually the more oppressed.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
We don't define Capitalism in the same way. For example you don't seem to use the word "Dictatorship" to define Capitalism when you know there are "a thousand" rules of what we Have to do & Can Not do of our own 'Free Will' creating Opression. New movie 'Food Inc.' shows the dictator style of capitalism, government, & $. So I think our definitions of Capitalism vary too much to converse on Politics, economic issues, and The Venus Project. We'd be better off talking about video games instead
ImproveYourMagic 2 years ago
By rules, I'm guessing you mean laws, every society needs to have them in order to survive. Heck, even your ideal society has them, you wanna outlaw private property and religious rights, if I'm not mistaken. That's a law that will have to enforced like laws nowadays are, and it's a pretty damn oppressive law at that.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Yes, you are mistaken. There is no plan in TVP which says people will be denied rights to religious freedom. In fact people will have increased freedom to develop their spiritualism. Instead of sitting behind a desk, they'll be able to express their undying obedience to their supreme spiritual masters all day. They'll have the freedom to sing and dance and pray and try to "brainwash" other people. since they won't have any "work" commitments.
If it's "god's" land, then how can you own it?
Redshiftable 2 years ago
How can the Venus Project be an "already proven failure" when it's only theoretical? It hasn't been implemented or tested in anyway so your belief is purely that, just a belief.
I'm not going to assume as to which country you live in, but would you agree that you could probably find some segment of your own society which defines it's current system of government as being oppressive and dictatorial?
It's a shame you don't have any idea how to change the world for the better. Keep trying though.
Redshiftable 2 years ago
The Venus Project may not have been put in practice yet, but its ideal of a perfect society was during the USSR, and it failed miserably. Understand ocne andfor all: COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Wrong again! Both PJ and JF have explained numerous times that a perfect society or "Utopia" is in fact, a logical impossibility.
If a society is perfect then it can't improve or advance any further.
The ideal of TVP is to create a more humane society.
Understand ocne andfor all: COMMUNISM, JUST LIKE CAPITALISM DOESN"T WORK because they both influenced by the CORRUPTION of the monetary system.
You know, you really should watch the video again, I think you missed the point.
Redshiftable 2 years ago
To all critics of the Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement, ask yourself.... Do YOU want to live in a better world?
If the answer is Yes, then please post YOUR alternative solutions to the aforementioned problems of the world.
If the answer is No, then stop wasting your time trying to understand other people's (and their children's) hopes and dreams.
If the answer is "The world's all right as it is" then you need to get a proper education.
Redshiftable 2 years ago
To answer your question, yes I do, but Zeitgeit's world isn't it, and no, I don't have any idea how we can change our world for the better, but goddamn I'm not gonna despair and turn to communism for it!
GameSheriff 2 years ago
@GameSheriff You're a poor brainwashed idiot. The consecutive imperialistic American governments made you equate Communism with torture. Stalin was never a Communist to begin with. Stalin was a nationalistic State Capitalist.
Not even Cubans are communists. Anyway, the embargo has been totally inefficient so you can at least tell who's the one avoiding progress.
But the American governments have been successful to blind people, making them ignorant, defenseless and stupid.
Pectiniculus 2 years ago
Communism, Socialism, Capitalism are all systems based on the exchange of labor for money. The Resource Based Economy of the "Zeitgeist World" is not, so how can they be considered the same, even on a theoretical basis?
I'm glad you answered Yes, but you still didn't post your alternative solution....
Redshiftable 2 years ago
Hey Fu and Game,
Congratulations. That's the longest, most intelligent dialog of opposing opinions I've seen on this issue. Stop the infantile name calling or you'll risking losing the respect of those who you may have convinced otherwise.
Redshiftable 2 years ago
zeitgeist addendum clearly uses the marxist way of seeing history, but so did almost everibody who lived after marx, he was brilliant but way to ahead of his time. zeitgeist is completely different, but still non capitalistic, and they are right. not everybody against capitalism is a socialist or such.... zeitgeist is platonism, is the principle of "know thyself" taken in a world scale. it is confucius too. it is the government of reason, science and philosophy united.
allcontakt 2 years ago
thank you so much for this!
imyoda69 2 years ago
Seeing this video makes me think it is impossible to make a transition to a world much like the venus project implies. This only seems possible if the entire population is raised from birth in an inviroment that is already shaped as in the venus project. Is there anybody who knows of another way of transition from this sick world to something else?
peterwesterlaken 2 years ago
Peter,
Many anthropologists have noted that the number it took to change society was a minority compared to the larger majority going along with the social order - often only 10% or less of the population.
Just do your bit to bring people to understand this social direction and watch it grow.
brentoneccles 2 years ago 7
Competition, invariably will always exist.
However, the current system deliberately forces scarcity on certain industries and thus forces people to a competitive market. The current system is unsustainable.
Competition in the future will be different from how we understand it.
HailRasec 2 years ago
You didn't answer how a man is going to get a woman when six other guys are after her.
RenewableFuel 2 years ago
Through competition.
HailRasec 2 years ago
Jacque Fresco says that Competition is Socially Offensive, we will always need to compete though. How do you think you think men can persuade a woman they like when there are three men interested in her? You have to compete.
RenewableFuel 2 years ago
Exactly. Jacque Fresco is nothing more than a drop-out, he's pissed because he's at the bottom of the food chain, so he wants to end competition so there can't be people above him. It is Man's nature to compete over everything, from material possessions to mates. Aside from that, competition is how we improve our character, when we compete, we improve ourselves, become stronger.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Competition is inherent, but that isn't to say that the current system is viable.
HailRasec 2 years ago
I agreed with it all except for one thing. He mentioned that we don't have freedom to choose what job we do. Well, just do well at school and many job opportunities open up to you.
RenewableFuel 2 years ago
that may be true now, but not for long as the reality of "Technological Unemployment" becomes more and more obvious (as employment rates fall and production rates rise) regardless of your education, companies will continue to employ automated practices in regards to production, for automation is, and will continue to be, the superior choice.
tysoneberly 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
*Coff*... Commies... *Coff*
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Communism is one of the most common misunderstandings about the Zeitgeist Movement. For that system still existed in a Monetary System, that still need to protect is own establishment with a Military, Laws, Wage Slave Labor, and so fourth. If you will take a closer look (read/watch the Activists Orientation Guide & listen to the blog talk podcasts) Communism resembles nothing of a Resource Based Economy.
tysoneberly 2 years ago
How is Peter a commie ? You do realize that he opposes the federal income tax, and in his latest radio address he claims to support a free market - which we don't have - as a transition to a more sustainable system.
HailRasec 2 years ago
He supports a free market system? He doesn't even support the market or trading! Peter Joseph advocates a centrally planned economy, a deeply flawed economic model practiced by the USSR in which the state or government have control over all means of production and decide what to produce and in what quantity. The products are then distributed amongst the people. This system was so incredibly inefficient that it spelled doom for the USSR.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
This model has never been practiced.
There is no state or real government as we see it today in this idea.
Communism still used money.
Communism did not use technology to free people of mind numbing labour.
Communism had people in positions of power that were corrupt.
Try to label it as something else if you wish. But you are wrong and the facts support that you are wrong.
Inform yourself before stamping it with a label.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
There's no state or government as we see it today... sure, that's what Lenin said. Let's get a few things straight:
1. The use of money does not define communist society, so that's irrelevant. You can still be communists in a resource-based economy.
2. Machines may be able to replace some jobs, but not all. So people will still have to work..
3. As will your system, you can go on and one about how machines will rule everything (a concept which by the way I find disgusting), but...
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Machines will not rule anything.
Decisions will be made by way of using the scientific method with logic and reasoning. Or are you against such a "crazy" way of thinking as that?
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
Deciding with logic and reasoning? Isn't that what we try to do today?
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Please view the videos and whole load of other resources.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
I've watched Peter Joseph's response to Ed Griffin's accusation of Marxism, which can barely qualify as a response, since all he did was complain about dualities and people nowadays are ignorant.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
... the truth is computers are just tools, they do whatever the programmers tell them to do. In this case the programmers would be the true rules of society. Ok, now here are the things that define you as communists:
- Abolition of religion
- Abolition of private propery
- Advocation of a centrally planned economy
- Abolition of trade
- Enforcement of social equality at all costs
- Reeducation, and by that I mean brainwashing, of the population from birth to abandon all traces...
GameSheriff 2 years ago
It encourages individuality. It allows people to be whatever they want to be.
Ambition doesn't just have to be money based. In fact, thats the reason a lot of bad things happen today.
90% of all jobs could be automated/phased out.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
It allows people to be what they want?! I don't really understand how if 90% of all jobs will be phased out, besides people can't be whatever they want, they can only be what they're good at, if they want to be succesful. But anyway you take away the rewards, and essentially all the meaning of a profession, no one will want to work. If being a lawyer or a doctor is the same thing as being a construction worker, who the hell wants to work his a** off to become a doctor or a lawyer?
GameSheriff 2 years ago
You can be whatever you want if you're capable. That requries learning like in any profession.
The reward would be that you are choosing to do something you want to do and enjoy for whatever personal reason that may be, not being forced into it due to money/social pressures.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
No you can't, you can only be what you're naturally talented to be, otherwise you'll never be succesful.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
I don't quite understand. Do you mean something along the lines of having your brain wired to be better at maths etc?
I'd say I somewhat agree with you if thats what you mean. But unless you have a disability I don't see why someone would be less successful.
It also depends on what you define as success.
My dream job that I'd love to do might give me minimum wage but I'd class me getting it as a success. Others might call me a drop out.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
By succesful, I mean being good at it. You may want to be doctor, but you may not have the talent or the natural inclination to it. Therefore you should not become a doctor.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Ah, yes, I agree then. If you study to become a doctor but can't pass then obviously thats something you will not be able to do.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
That's no reward, that's an utter lack of incentive: have you ever even considered that maybe people don't want to work if they can spend all day sitting on their a** without doing nothing? And without any pressures, does who do work won't feel the need to improve their skill. For instance, if someone thinks their doctor is incompetent and decide to go somewhere else, the incompetent doctor won't be penalized for it, and therefore won't feel the need to improve himself.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Yes, I know people that would sit on their ass all day. But eventually the penny would drop and they'd realise that if they do something/make something/become knowledgable enough to create something that helps them, then it'd also help others.
Or they could do whatever they enjoy. Music, art etc. Again, all that can be shared with others for enjoyment.
Incentives could change. So many people volunteer already.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
Do you have any evidence for this? Do you have any evidence at all to sustain that ridiculous belief that people will willingly work for nothing and without any reward?
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Only the millions of current volunteers working for no financial or obeject related gain.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
I'll tell you know: you're wrong if you think all volunteers work out of the charity of their hearts. I have a cousin who volunteers just to impress his gf.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Lol, thats pretty clever. But if he's doing it to impress he's gf then so be it. He is doing it none the less.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
You miss the point here, he's doing because he has an incentive, monetary or not. You want to take away all incentive, except knowing it is for the common good, and that can't even be qualified as an incentive.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
No, from what I understand you can have any incentive you want...just not money or power.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
Okay, than what other incentive may you have? My cousin does it to impress chicks granted,
GameSheriff 2 years ago
But he does simple stuff. I don't think people will do the harder tasks just to impress the opposite sex.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
The volunteers wouldn't really have to do anything too difficult. The machines would take care of most things.
The things harder to do via machines would be care work, surgery etc. Although advances are being made in those sectors too.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
It could vary. For me personally I would do it because I'd get a sense of satisfation knowing that I'm helping contribute to other peoples happiness or comfort.
I guess I would do it if it impressed chicks too.
Also if it helped me to learn something specific to a subject of interest.
Maybe just for the experience. It all depends I suppose.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
... of individuality, ambition, greed and Human nature (which by the way is something that scares the shit out of me).
And last but certainly not least:
- The abolition of democracy.
With that in mind, let's see what your movement really advocates: a non-democratic, totalitarian society ruled by Far Leftist government, that outlaws religion, where people are manipulated from birth to embrace its ideals. GEE, WHY DOES THAT SOUND SOOOO FAMILIAR???!!!
GameSheriff 2 years ago
There is no "reeducation". You're only learning new things. There will be no brain washing. Just a better way of doing things.
Greed is human nature? I'm sure you can prove that then right?
We are not communists. There may be some things you find similar but its like calling a cat a dog because it also has 4 legs.
All the questions you've asked and statements you've made have all been said and refuted already. Go to the website and look in the forums.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
Sure it won't be reeducation, you're only gonna take young children and force your Leftist ideals on them from birth, that's not reeducation at all.
Look, there's a reason Marx defended a transitional state of government in which people were reeducated, he realized that people were naturally greedy and ambitious, and yes they are, just look at our History, when did Man ever say "Ok, I think I have enough now..." Never! We always wanted more and we were always willing to fight for it...
GameSheriff 2 years ago
There is no such thing as reeducation. There is only education. If you learn something, then learn a better way of doing that something then its simply education.
Greed has not been proven to be natural. I do not think I'm greedy. You could probably add 300,000+ to that with whoevers in the movement. God knows how many more.
Scarcity is a problem but that is what the Venus Project aims to solve by eliminating scarcity.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
Our History proves it beyond doubt that the Human being is greedy, even the few who had everything (or what people at the time thought was everything) wanted more. And you too are greedy, you just support this movement because its ideals sound good, but if you were forced to live in a shack in the name of equality and had to settle for whatever the government decided was fair for you to have (which probably would be only the bare essentials), you would not be pleased.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Well, history does have some interesting things to tell us about man and greed. But its far from proven that man is greedy.
If I was forced to live in a shack then I think I would be a little annoyed...but luckily this doesn't have to happen for any of us.
If it did then I'd accept it as the end goal would be worth it(for me).
But if the Venus Project becomes a reality then that won't happen.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
Actually it has, absolutely. For God's sake, even Marx recognized it.
Actually if the Venus Project becomes a reality you're actually very likely to live in a shack, as they would take away your goods that they consider "excessive" in the name of equality.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
I didn't see that part.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
... Marx knew this, and he (wrongfully) believed that that greed and that ambition could be snuffed out through reeducation, of course, as the failure of the USSR proved, it could not and any attempt to do so will have horrible results. The real question here is: can you prove otherwise? That Man isn't naturally greedy despite all of our History indicating that he is? The answer is no, you can't. You're supporting a society that forces people to repress their humanity and natural urges.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Edcuation would only be part of the change. The abundance would come from technology producing what we need without a price or a lifetime of labour.
Man may be naturally greedy...but you can't deny that man can also be changed dramatically by the environment. And thats what we want to do.
If educating someone and giving them information and comfort that takes away their tendancy to be abborant and aggressive then how can that be a bad thing?
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
So you're educating man to against his nature? Yeah, that worked wonderfully in the past. Even if you have a greater resource output than our current society, you would hardly be able to give your people an high lifestyle if you distributed them equally amongst everyone. More than that you force people to "settle" for whatever you find fair for them to have, and I can assure you they won't.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
People are free to opt out if they wish.
Please look at all the information though because all these questions have been discussed.
Yes there is enough resources to go around the WHOLE world to give EVERYONE an increase in living standards.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
So you say, but where are your proofs? And even if there were, that doesn't change the fact that people will be forced to settle for whatever the world government found fair for them to have. Don't you see the free market actually gives people freedom? It allows them to have what they want, you're suggesting we force people to having only what the government finds fair for them to have. Which by the way, is also communism.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
The proofs of enough for everyone?
Well the reason 1 billion people are starving right now is not because the lack of food. It's because they do not have the money to buy the food.
There is no government. Resources would go to wherever they're needed. Substitutes could be made if needed.
There's enough to provide everything to everyone. Look around and the waste we have now. That waste would stop.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
How does that prove people will settle for whatever you find fair for them to have?
Who would allocate the resources if not the government?
You continue to say it, I continue not to believe it until I sees proofs. And even if it's true, and we haveenough to support everyone, it doens't matter because people won't settle for essentials .
GameSheriff 2 years ago
People could have whatever they wanted but they would be educated to know that they don't need extreme amounts of anything as its all free. Theres no scarcity to trigger than behaviour.
The resources would be allocated via a computer system that would have access to all current world resources. So it could instantly make the best decision on where things are required.
We have enough for more than essentials. Look around. How many PC's/phones/TV's/Cars have you had in your life time?
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
The free market only allows you to be as free as your purchasing power allows you to be.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
And a centrally planned economy doesn't allow you to be free in any circumstance... so which one do you think is more oppresive?
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Centrally planned? What are you referring to there? Forgive me, I am slow...most of the time.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
A centrally-planned economy was the economic model practiced by the USSR and the one that Peter Joseph advocates. In this economic model the state or government (or whatever you wanna call it), control all means of production, and decide what to produce and in what quantity, and how to distribute it amongst the people. This model however is incredibly inefficient, as the governmnent is unable to predict what the people will need and in what quantities, which causes scarcity of some products...
GameSheriff 2 years ago
... and excess of others. To give you an idea of how inefficient this model was, it was the main cause for the USSR's downfall.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
The state doesn't really control it though.
The people control it. If you want something then you'd probably get it. So long as it wasn't something incredibly meaningless like a 100 bedroom house or a jet.
No predictions needed. You could order something much like today but it would be made quickly by machines shortly after you placed your order.
The systems are different, USSR had money, corruption, armies, laws, etc.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
We've hard all before... that was the same speech Lenin used: the people will be in power, etc.
The state is the representative of the people so if it controls all means of production you could say the people is in control, in a way.
Do you really believe you could just go up and ask for something and you'd instantly have it. There would be planning in that model, what about food? Its production would have to be planned in advance.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
It wouldn't be instant but it would be quick by todays standards.
More than enough food could be grown and some stored for times of emergency.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
The USSR and money, so what?
The USSR had corruption, what makes you believe Peter Joseph and his crew won't be corrupted by power (and do you really wanna see your fate in the hands of an unwashed hippy?)
The USSR had armies, so will you need to have if your society ever takes off, otherwise any shmuck can take you over.
The USSR had laws, so will you need to have if you want your society to last more than a day. Without laws there is chaos, a society can't survive in chaos.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
There is no power to be had in this system. That is one of the main points.
Hippies??? I've talked to and met a few Zeitgeisters and Venus Project activists and none of them are hippys. They've actually all been professionals or what society would call "successful" people.
There will be no armies after the transition.
There will be very few laws and eventually maybe even no laws.
You haven't looked at the information available, please do. Everything you've stated has been explained
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
There HAS to be power, if there isn't who will decide how much of each resource to produce and how to allocate it, or anything for that matter?
They have hippie ideals and hippie goals, that makes them hippies.
If there are no armies or laws, the society has the life-expectancy of a fruit fly. Armies are essential to defend from outside and inside threats, and they make the people feel safe.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Which is exactly why these entities would probably be the last to go, after many gradual steps.
mikemhz 2 years ago
Yeah, I've heard that rhetoric before... after everyone has been "reeducated" into becoming mindless sheep slave to the will of the collective, the power institutions will dissapear. When will the commies goddamn learn their ideals just don't fit in with humans?
GameSheriff 2 years ago
why quote "re-educated" like someone said it? if you're aware of progress in the major relevant fields then you should be educated enough to see that our political landscape is already radically different because of certain technological/intellectual/medical advances. the next step is a logical one, while you say "ideals" like i hold some delusional fairy beliefs. you're like some whacked out general who thinks his cat is plotting a communist revolution.
mikemhz 2 years ago
Because you and your movement said it. Technology and progress may have changed a lot, but they haven't, nor will they ever change, human nature.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
"nor will they ever change, human nature."
A major part of the scientific argument is that it can and does.
mikemhz 2 years ago
Right, like the soviets managed to change the people they tried to reeducate into abandoning their nature, and following their leftist ideals?
GameSheriff 2 years ago
you can't brainwash someone to abandon their nature. that is literally some 1984 bullshit. people have standards and freedom of speech.
The ideal is producing things until they're so abundant that their cost is negligible.
I've seen comments where you've said exactly the same thing over 2 weeks ago. When was the last time you watched this lecture?
If you've got questions, ask the guy in the video. E-mail.
mikemhz 2 years ago
Dude, you can have more resources than you have now, but if you use a pre-planned economy, in which the state or whatever the hell your movement wants to call it controls them all and distributes them how they see fit, then people still won't be happy, because they're forced to settle. Plus, the state has to predict what people will want in how much quantity. Do you really think they can handle that much responsability, because all previous experiments show they can't.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
That's where automated service comes in. Internet click delivery. Computers simply look at the statistics and manage the appropriate resources. If worldwide bread consumption increases then bread production increases and vice-versa.
mikemhz 2 years ago
Dude, do you know how long that would take? They'd have change the plans, re-assign resources to make bread... it would take way too long!
Besides, I don't want a bucket of bolts running my life, I'm perfectly capable of running it myself.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Besides they would only be able to react and increase bread production after the scarcity of bread started taking effect. In our society, when a product is scarce it's market price increases, signaling the producers to make more of it. So the effects felt by scarcity are minimal at worst.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
here in europe, we burn masses of food, to keep prices high... :(
Kebap23 2 years ago
Yes I know I'm European too. But really, think about it; if prices aren't at least high enough to make a profit, the producers won't have any money and won't be able to produce more food in the future.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
@Kebap23 ban money.
Pectiniculus 2 years ago
don't forget we're still discovering. all the greatest minds in the world are working towards understanding what we are capable of as human beings. it's a form of evolution. we'll see how essential power structure and law enforcement is as we continue to progress, as long as we ALLOW progress.
mikemhz 2 years ago
Laws are essential to prevent chaos, if there's no law, tehre's nothing preventing me from going to my next door neighbors house and shot him in the face. Chaos and anarchy ensue.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
I understand where you're coming from. I was asking the same questions.
The only way I got all my answers was by looking at the information thats there.
If you find that after going through it all it's still communism and you have proof, then please let me know, I'll help you to tell others. If not, then maybe it will give you something to think about.
But every point you've raised has been answered. Please look at the information provided on the websites and videos/ebooks etc.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
There is no answer you can give me that will change my mind on this. You can't have a society without laws or an army.
And you are communists, look go back, and look at the points I said defined you as communists, and tell if I'm wrong in any of them.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
And I'm saying this is a waste of time until you inform yourself on the FACTS.
If you're not willing to look at the information then so be it. You remain willfully ignorant.
But regardless of what you think or say, ALL of your points have been answered. If you're not willing to look then that says a lot about the kind of human being you are.
I'm not going to write essays in YouTube comment sections when the information is right there on a website!
Look or not, it won't change the facts.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
Look, I saw PJ's answer to Edward Griffin's claim that his ideals are marxist, and it didn't even qualify as an answer, he spent all the time bitching about how people nowadays are ignorant and stuff.
GameSheriff 2 years ago
Well try looking at the rest of the information.
The Zeitgiest website.
The Venus Project website.
The downloadable EBooks.
The Orientation video.
The other 2 Zeitgeist videos.
Money As Debt video.
Numerous books.
They all have pages of sources which go into detail about human behaviour and having/not having laws etc. They clearly state the difference between communism and what this movement is about. It's all there just for you.
FuManBoobs 2 years ago
Okay, tell me if the differences they state are these:
1. You advocate a resource based economy.
2. You advocate technology as a means of freeing the common man from the need to work.
GameSheriff 2 years ago