The SECRET to Ben Hogan's "laying off the club"

[Yelostn801]

Isn't the reason he cupped the wrists in the first place was to keep the club face from turning over too fast (shut postion at impact). I don't get it, he cupped his wrist at the top to open the club face then bent it back on the way down to a shut postion just as he was in before. Why not just leave the club face in the shut postion all the way through the swing, he ended up that way anyway.

[tombertrand1]

@Yelostn801

Mr. Hogan used it as a coiling method for the hands. Coil then uncoil. He found that when he opened the clubface on the backswing it was impossible to close it fast enough to snap hook it. Hope this helps.

[Ridalgar]

I love the video, and agree woth it with one exception. I think Hogan said it would not be good for the average golfer because it takes extreme dedication to master. It is also contrary to many modern teachers feelings with their desire to see the back of the left hand flat at the top of the swing, and the hands higher to allow them to clear the lower body at the impact point. The key to impact is getting the hips against the wall, and turned out of the way. Talk to me! Gary Ridgway, PGA Pro

[brill33free]

Tom, I watched your videos and incorporated your suggestions. Excellent results - I have been practicing for about a month and went from shooting mid to upper 80's to breaking 80's consistently. Making much bettter contact, with a more comfortable, controlled swing. I watched a couple of other videos on ball position and aim, and practiced on those things as well and I'm enjoying the game much more. I would definately recommend you to anyone who wants to improve their game.

[jenesaispas99]

John Schlee, he was a student of Ben Hogan

[jddumas]

I am a 1 handicap and have played for 30 years. I tried this immediate cupping of the right wrist down at the top of the swiing, and it was DIFFICULT at first. The more I practiced it, the easier it became, and I want to report that after 30 years, I had the most solid ball-striking round I've ever had. Piercing bullets and long drives, I could really feel the left wrist bowing at impact. Thanks for posting this great video!! BTW, shot 66!

[TheOneAndOnlycE]

I´ve been working on swinging like hogan and that is something I also figured out, but I wasn´t quite sure.  This vid confirmed to me that I´m on the right track. Exceptional video. Thank you for this.

[p01argentina]

Wow... that´s great Tom.

From Buenos Aires, thanks for sharing that...

Where can I meet you when I go to the States? (I am an Argentine PGA golf pro for more than thirty years)

Thanks again

[Chipinjack]

brilliant....btw - who is John ??

[airplouffe86]

This is very interesting. While I agree with the over all mechanice of what your talking about. I think you may miss the point of why. These mechanice happen because Hogan is using the push/pull effect of the hands and arms to power the swing. Everything his body did in the swing was to create leverage and pull the club head around.

[parttroll1]

Interesting video. I've noticed that my wrists are cupped at the top of the back swing as this is my natural action. I've tried in vain and had pro's telling me to keep the wrists flat which does not feel right for me. This might be a solution to my poor ball striking particularly with fairway irons.

[nblogtwitting]

I think this is it. And I have not seen anything stating it so clearly. Thanks a lot.

[shawakwak]

Started slow but finished with a bang. Bravo nice lesson.

[Gyro911]

Good tip.. releasing the left hand does increase the swing speed on the downswing. Going try it today at the range

[ccaseyj9]

Hi Tom, Great video! Where can I purchase this on DVD? Is it available in DVD format? Please let me know asap. I want to buy immediately

[ccaseyj9]

Hi Tom,

Where can I get your DVD "Laying Off the Club"?

[tombertrand1]

@ccaseyj9 The Secret of Hogans Swing. com

[bosscunningham]

@tombertrand1

Tom great video i am 57 years old , was a good athlete in my day. i have been stuck in the Mid 80's forever. watched your video several times and went to the range for 5 straight days all good sessions. played a tough course the Neuse clayton, nc 4 1/2 stars. shot 78 with 5 birdies and 3 double bogies. most birdies ever and tied my best score ever. I hit the ball better than ever with more Distance not swing as hard. I am going out to buy your book where can i get it. Thanks

[shredidiah]

Hi.... Like the explaination, but the laying off of the club in the transition from the back swing to the down swing happens naturally when you apply Hogans 1st move down, wihich is lead by the Knees and hips

[captainschroeder]

excellent... 

[mairtforde]

Who's John?

[tombertrand1]

@mairtforde John Schlee who played the tour in the 60's and 70's.

[remmy100]

its funny, this video helped my driving and iron shots so much, but now I cant get a feel for my 3 hybrid!

[Gyro911]

@remmy100 your probably not putting enough ball focus or movng your head

[golf4pros4]

Great job - best video I have in a long time. Can you in your next video go into Hogan Pivot. I think his pivot and the use of the large muscles and core muscles played a big role in his swing.

[8cantrell5]

I've tried the Hogan swing before as described in Fundamentals but never knew about this move so I was constantly hitting it right. Now that I've seen this, I'm thinking about giving it another try but I was wondering... I know Hogan did this to cure a hook, so does this swing generally have a fade ball flight or is it just much harder to hook it? In short, can you still hit a draw?

[juicyfruitzy]

this is good stuff! thanks for sharing.

[OnlineBizClubGuy]

great explanation Tom, how do I release this cup better??? Is it a pushing of the right elbow toward the ball at the top of the swing??

[tombertrand1]

It's with relaxed wrists and letting the weight of the club during transition, that helps feel the release better.

[drunkass77]

I read your book about a year ago and liked it a lot. I've read most of the books on Hogan and thought yours was good.

[drunkass77]

This is a good video. I read your book about Hogan's swing about year ago and liked it a lot. It was one of the better Hogan books that I have read. Do you think I could have the same results in downward swing plane if I keep my left wrist level throughout the back swing, instead of cupping the wrist and flattening it out at the top? I think I tend to over cup my left wrist and have been trying to keep it a little flatter lately.

[tombertrand1]

Hogan cupped his wrist to delay his hands in the hitting area from firing too quick. If you do not need that delay you do not have to cup on the backswing.

[thomasyapo]

interesting video. unfortunately it is too cold to try this theory on the turf but it will occupy my mind during this winter for sure.

[MrPigg11]

On every other slo mo ben hogan video i see on the site there is no lay off at the start of the down swing, it happens at the bottom of the swing. If you read five lessons you know hogan was a huge proponent of plane. If you lay off the club as suggested here, the club would be almost parallel to the ground and would break any plane that has been achieved. I don't know who this John guy was that hogan explained this action to but i don't see this move in any hogan swings.

[tombertrand1]

Hogan did delay his layoff longer than most people can because of the strength in his hands and wrists. The average golfer should lay off sooner. If you understand the connection between the arms and the hands in relation to the back, it's impossible for the club to be almost parallel to the ground. Breaking the plane would be going over the top, not under and if you do not know who John Schlee was then you do not need be posting here.

[stevebeach1]

touche!!

[sethar1]

this is great stuff

[sethar1]

Your videos are awesome This one and the backswing Plane should be considered the best golf videos ever. I applied the turning the wrists in the bacswing plane video to the waggle and it has transformed my swing . Thankyou very much! Your great!

[IHARTPIE]

Great video,

I never could understand why I always had the face open, now I know why.

Bravo good job

Stuat

[z7fan]

That is an incredible observation about something we see happening and don't know why it is happening.Great explanation,thx for posting.

Michel

[thechessstick]

Hi Tom, thanks for posting this. I am curious, should one bow the left wrist at address with the club face slightly open to facilitate a fade? Doesn't the bowing of the left wrist through impact tend to cause the club face to hood thus resulting in a draw or a hook? Thanks....

[soml]

I can understand why people like clips like this...but want to point out that this was a technique that worked for Hogan but for most club guys looking to improve it would be too physically demanding. Honestly if you want to swing the club like this then get down to yoga for 6 months. If you don't have the time for that then spend a lot of time working on your address position....way way more time than you think.

[samimalmstrom]

Im a huge Ben Hogan fan and use some of his principles in teaching. I agree that this move is not good for every one, especially Sergio Garcia, mainly because he takes the club on an almost out to in path going back and then drops it behind him too much therefore relying heavily on his hips squaring of the face at impact. You seem to know a lot about Ben Hogan, one thing that bothers me is some people say he was stack and tilt. I disagree. Did he transfer weight or not in his swing?

[tombertrand1]

Yes he did transfer his weight but not it was a little different. He liked to call it a dynamic weight shift to the inside of his right foot and not a static weight shift where the weight is on the right foot.

[samimalmstrom]

Thanks for your reply. So glad to hear that he transferred weight. Would be hard to imagine how without weight transfer he could have achieved an estimated clubhead speed of 130 mph.

[OnlineBizClubGuy]

this is the crown jewel of hogans secret

[headlesssoldier]

I have been working on getting my hands in the correct position this year, and my fairwaywoods are ridiculous. My Irons are the usual off an on again. I was working on a different way of doing this concept. After watching this, I just went to the range and thought of getting my right elbow in front of my right hip by flattening my left wrist early. It was fantastic. I was smashing the ball. compressing the living hell out of it. I can't think "uncupping at the top". Too much! But.....

[greenergolf]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. It appears to me Tiger doesn't bother with this cupping (wrist cock) move. He seems to have a "bowed" wrist immediately at the top of the back swing and sets it there immediately, thus eliminating the need to reset this position on start of downswing. I think this is better (more simplified) if you can do it. I suspect he is able to generate plenty of power through leverage and lower body; therefore doesn't need to "cup" with the extra wrist cock. Thoughts?

[tombertrand1]

Hogan even said back in the 50's that this move wasn't for everybody. I like to think people will see this move and realize you can do different movements with your hands, some good and some bad. Tiger's is good and yes he doesn't need the extra leverage this move gives you.

[rogaineman]

I think this is great insight mainly because it effectively cuts-off the over-the-top / casting move that causes pulls / slices and general power losses. It prevents the right side from overpowering the left side in the downswing. Great stuff !!!

[rogaineman]

Tom, Is this motion (laying off the club) that you are describing common to all professional golfers ? It's a very powerful description of what Ben Hogan appears to be doing but does it also describe the transition of other golfers ? I'm just curious.

[tombertrand1]

Not all, a lot come to mind, Sergio for sure. As far as the transition, no. Some professional golfers you see on tour do not use the proper chain action that Hogan describes. Once they get to the top of their backswing, everything starts from the top, instead of just the lower body. They make it work but they are very inconsistent. 65 one day 75 the next.

[rogaineman]

It's interesting that you mention Sergio. I've noticed that about his transition as well. Certainly Rocco Mediate does not have this move in his transition.

[jjmquant]

Mr bertrand,

good description.

it seems to be the case that many golfers amateur and professionals think almost in opposites. Hogan when he spoke (which was a rarity) seemed to always imply this.

[seanbball]

Tom, You and your book are the best teaching guides! But the left hand or arm has to do more than just guide the club. Hogan says hit the ball hard with both hands. HIT THE BALL AS HARD AS YOU CAN WITH BOTH HANDS (p.. 99). So far, I've been thinking that your turning the elbow in provides the left side power, with the right hand throwing the clubhead and forearms crossed at the end. the left palm facing the sky. Am I on the right track?

[tombertrand1]

True. I like my students to see the right side as the dominating force first, then they can allow more of a left hand contribution. You are on the right track. By trying to turn in, the left elbow before impact, centrifugal force takes over faster and gets the left side out of the way for an unimpeded impact zone

[seanbball]

Tom, I've been experimenting with laying off the club the way you describe it. When I bow the left wrist, I feel as though I'm losing the wrist cock and losing power as a consequence. Is that just the way I feel? Or am I losing the wrist cock in reality?

[tombertrand1]

When you bow the left wrist you will feel powerless in the left hand because you are increasing the wristcock in the right hand. Remember, the let hand guides the powerful right side into the hitting area. Make sure when you are releasing the cup you are not casting from the top. The left arm and the club should still be at a 45 degree angle minimum.

[seanbball]

Isn't the angle between the left arm and the club more like ninety degrees? I just reread the section of your book on the "Legendary Golf System," and I didn't notice a reference to a forty-five degree angle. Maybe I missed it. In addition to that question, I find difficult the concept of capturing the ball and slinging it toward the target. Any suggestions, in addition to what I read in your book?

[tombertrand1]

Sorry I wasn't paying attention to my numbers. It is supposed to be 90 degrees. The concept of capturing is a mental picture to help people realize that the clubhead is traveling faster after contact with the ball. I actually tell people to set-up to a ball and then without taking a backswing, just go to a complete finish slinging the ball toward your target.

[seanbball]

Yes, I'm getting the feel of the clubhead gaining even more speed after impact. For me that suggests a whimsical question. Isn't there a way we can delay impact and take advantage of the extra clubhead speed? It's a shame that the extra speed is wasted.

[pigslefats]

Question-bowing the left wrist delofts the club face or closes it? When you read golf instruction books they all indicate that cupping the left wrist opens the face and bowing it closes the face.

[tombertrand1]

They (the golf instruction books you speak of)are a little confused with the language used. Cupping the left wrist adds loft to the face and the folding right elbow opens the clubface. Bowing the left wrist delofts the clubface and the left elbow turning closes the clubface.

[pigslefats]

Where is the laying off part?

[tombertrand1]

The laying-off comes after the lower body starts the downswing. It is the release of the cup in the back of the left wrist. If you look at your clubface in a mirror when you are at the top of the backswing and then after you release the cup, you will see the face point to the sky. That's being laid off. Hope this helps.

[DocCrunch]

WATCH HOGANS SLOW MOTION PRACTICE SWINGS! I can't believe what he is doing where you talk about him not telling about the release of the cup. He's rotating it EVEN MORE open! Also, I was noting his grip video and him showing where the muscles were active in the left hand with his right hand feeling under his left arm. I still wonder about the hip starting the swing, and the shoulders staying on plane.

[tombertrand1]

The left hip, in conjunction with the left knee together, start the downswing. the shoulders stay on plane and you spin as fast as you can. If you do not keep the arms together when spin fast, the ball could go anywhere.

[DocCrunch]

Hey, I was just looking at Hogan's slow mo practice swings, and noticed him actually noting "ok heres where I" and his hands were around hip high, and he actually opens up the club, so that the club is traveling through impact more like a door swinging back and forth. What is your input on this? Thanks

[tombertrand1]

Remember, Hogan opens up the clubface by using the wrists in a twisting motion and closes the clubface by untwisting. It's what I call coiling the hands going back and uncoiling the hands on the way down. I don't like the visual of the "door swinging". It makes me think your palms are not going through impact properly. The right palm needs to go to the ground through impact as the back of the left hand moves toward the ground. Hope this helps.

[DocCrunch]

I just found Garcia's swing by taking the counter clockwise turn a little farther. To do it keep club at top of swing and just start rotating counter clockwise until you can't anymore, club will drop and everything, right elbow will glue into side after moving more laterally foreward going into ball. Club will be going into ball more squarely in relation to plane, also it will allow club to move through ball more level and thus imparting truer backspin on ball.

[DocCrunch]

oops, i meant rotate club counter clockwise from top as you already know

[tombertrand1]

I was hoping you meant counter clockwise.

[DocCrunch]

also, keeping the left hand grip pressure even and equally distributed (like all the skin on hand is pressing on grip pushing it to the center of shaft --think in terms of circumfrence and radii as opposed to the length of the shaft so I don't confuse you) This makes getting into position from address to the top easier (like hogan). And finally remember that "square" has more than two dimensions.

[DocCrunch]

FINALLY I FOUND SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THIS!!! I can provide more insight: 1.the shoulders must stay on plane as you start with the hips, or you can try starting with hips for years and not get it. 2. at the start of the downswing, you simply rotate the shaft clockwise. 3. the right arm will have no choice but to come into side. (it will move forward laterally as well) 4. this move (the one you outlined) gets the club head LEVEL coming into the ball- producing more square backspin.

[tiger2995]

Hi Tom, can I just be clear, is the release of the cup in the back of the left hand a 'passive reaction' to uncoiling your body from the left hip? Or is it done 'actively'? Is this flattening of the left hand on the way down something that happens naturally due to lack of tension and centrifugal force. (i.e. part of the chain-reaction?) PS: Where can I buy your book? :-)

[tombertrand1]

It starts as passive and then becomes an action when the hands have reached hip high on the downswing.Yes it is due to supple and relaxed wrists. Check out my website for the book.

[seanbudlong]

Tom, your two videos are great and already have helped me learn a swing. I've and own Hogan's Five Lessons, and your book is a good companion to that, helping to explain things that Hogan doesn't explain. To me, your book is indispensable. Thank you for your help.

[ejhong]

Thank you Tom for the incredible insight - fantastic information for somebody trying to assemble Hogan's swing - completely automates the arm drop when combined with the right other elements. I hope you continue to add more videos for us Hogan fans.

[DanielEderGolf]

your training videos are great. some of the best that i have seen

[tombertrand1]

It only moves the toe ahead of the heel if your grip is too strong. The back of the left hand, in your grip at address, has to be directly in line with the clubface.

[aphelion10]

What is the most likely reason I hook the ball when I purposely bow the left wrist at impact? Doesn't this deloft the club and move the toe ahead of the heel of the club creating a draw/hook? I know this is important so I'm trying to figure it out?

Thanks in advance!

[Rikki147]

may i ask what is your interpretation on the quote 'the secret is in the dirt'? thanks for sharing this information :)

[tombertrand1]

It means practice, practice, practice. If you practice enough you will eventually find the answers you seek.

[rands76]

I think it means he is taking it to the grave. I've heard others say it is in the R foot and how he had extra spikes.

[737hunter]

Hogan said in five lessons that the hands do nothing active until they are at about hip level on the downswing, when does one uncup the wrist?

[tombertrand1]

The left wrist starts to uncup after the lower body has initiated the downswing. Because we have relaxed and supple wrists, the transition allows for the uncupping without hand activation. So on the backswing if you incorporate Hogan's 'twist' where the hands are active (not mentioned in 5 lessons because he didn't talk about the 'secret)they stop their twisting and become passive until about hip high on the downswing.

[boscoff2]

Great video thanks!!

[latepivot]

interesting but which hand is in charge of removing the cup?

[tombertrand1]

The left wrist relaxes and the weight of the club at the top of the backswing allows the back of the left hand to uncup.

[latepivot]

why did hogan want three right hands? did he confess to john schlee? what secret was in the dirt?