based on top notch scientists from whom i have read (michio kaku, stephen hawking) i believe that the universe has not always existed. according to quantum theory and the uncertainty principle, matter can be created from nothing. this happens constantly between protons and electrons. the universe may have been a particle that gained stability. before the universe, i do not know what there was. i do know this: numbers always have existed. so if physics follows mathematical laws it can exist...
WHATEVER THE REASON BEHIND THE UNIVERSE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A MAGICAL SUPREME CREATOR, OR GOD, DEITY.. ETC. ETC....WE ARE HERE AND WE EVOLVED... FACT... There is no god... He's imaginary...
time cannot have a beginning, because there is nothing before time. beginning implies that there was something before it. because time and space came into existence simultaneously, it is eternal because nothing existed before them.
@confluential Existence of what though? I get what you're saying, but existence is a state of entropy that is instantaneous. Something can exist today, and not exist tomorrow. If you're talking about matter, than yes, matter has to have always existed because before the existence of matter, there was nothing. how can nothing exist when there is nothing? the concept of nothing and before time and things that christians can't quite grasp.
@confluential : Whether "physical" or "metaphysical"......In other words the Law of Identity, The Law Of Excluded Middle, The Law of Non-contradiction, are eternal.
@confluential no i get what you're saying. but you can't say just existence, because existence is a state of instantaneous entropy. do you get what i'm saying? but i think that we can agree that matter has always existed, and the universe has always existed, because you cannot define nothingness as ever existing.
@sagerbj86: Well, we mainly agree, but you understand if you say "matter has always existed," that belongs to a class or category of existence. Not as a label, but as its essence. So that's why I say "existence has always existed"
@sagerbj86: Just like anything real belongs to the larger class of reality. But whether or not something exists physically, the laws of existence still apply; just like the laws of reality said in another way.
i wish i knew... sadly i dont even have the slightest clue. its such a hard thing to wrap your head around. i can't see the universe occuring spontaneosly, always being there, or being created....
1:33 good point, but the same thing goes for god. did god cause himself to exist or was he created?
how many licks does it take to get to the center of the universe? the WORLD may never know...
I don't believe there will ever be any true evedance where the galaxy came from or if our solar system is the only one that holds life. But I assure you that your rablings you portray as proof of anything makes no sense. And stop using the word cause. My parents had sex thats the only reason I exist.
If we ask, 'has the universe always existed?' Then we have to ask, 'has god always existed?' If we ask, 'did the universe come from nothing?' then we have to ask, 'did god come from nothing?' It's the type of argument that will go round and round. Science doesn't know for sure how the universe began, but they'll figure it out. Maybe not in our lifetime, but they will. Just because science doesn't know is not a good reason to default to "god must have done it!"
Meh, the more I watch these videos the more boring they become. You give us three options, none of which we can definitively know the answer to, and then we're supposed to argue about who's right? No one knows! Why compare a creation myth's take on it to the current scientific understanding? Even if we found that some force caused the universe to exist that wouldn't do jack all for proving that it was your god that did it.
What is your supporting evidence that your god created the universe? The bible is a book written by men so that is not a valid evidence. Your beliefs are as good as anybody else's disbeliefs. Your faith is just as good as anybody's doubts. So if there is no proven evidence there is no thruth.
Of course the Universe has not always existed. It had a transcendental causal agent, which sent you a message recently.
The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.
The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.
@ foxhole- my question to you is, why then do most atheist fume at the idea of a creator (since there isn't any other known explanation) instead of taking it into consideration that if the laws that govern this universe can't explain its existence then there might possibly be a transcendental agent that caused its existence? Why throw out the idea of God?
@OneEyedJack1970: That's a logical contradiction. If god exists, it/she/he would operate WITHIN the confines of time.If you claim "god" isn't within the bounds of time, then it's a moot point. You're only "making up" a construct that you "hope" is bigger than the confines of logical laws, but you can do that with the "tickle goddess" as well.
@confluential There's no contradiction at all. A transcendental Creator would have to be outside of time, space, energy, and matter in order to create those things. That doesn't mean He can't enter and operate within His creation.
@OneEyedJack1970:All you're doing is making that ability up, though. Just assigning magic abilities to a god is useless because there's no way to falsify or validate the claim. As I said, we're only familiar with operating WITHIN time to be meaningful. Anything OUTSIDE ..... is just special pleading. In other words, my magic invisible leprechaun is transcendental also....
@OneEyedJack1970: And I could continue giving more and more special circumstances as an answer for logical contradictions that you'd be offering up almost endlessly. You're probably only one god away from being an atheist.
@confluential Your argument is akin to saying someone can build a house, but they can never walk inside it. Which makes it pretty easy to dismiss as nonsense.
And I'm nowhere near being an atheist. I'm a firm monotheist.
@OneEyedJack1970: No sir. I am saying you're merely positing that a god can operate OUTSIDE of time.My point to you is that anything OUTSIDE of time is meaningless. And if your god operates WITHIN time, that means it has to defer to objective laws. So at best, your god can't be all powerful. And believe me, you're an atheist by default if you say you're a monotheist.... do you believe in any other god besides the christian one? Just want to make sure I am understanding you.
@OneEyedJack1970: Also, I am familiar with building houses WITHIN TIME that you can walk into, but can you give me an example of any house built OUTSIDE of time? Can you offer me any evidence besides speculation that it WAS in fact built OUTSIDE of time?
@OneEyedJack1970: Okay, it seems like it's going over your head just a little. Simple questions: "Are you Jewish?" If not, then you don't believe the god of Judaism exists. Same with "Muslim." It means with respect to Islam you don't believe such a god exists. THAT'S why you're only a god away from being an atheist. Do you understand now? Unless you are polytheistic, there are other gods you don't believe in. That makes you an atheist with respect to the other "gods."
'If not, then you don't believe the god of Judaism exists'
Wrong. I do believe the God of Judaism exists. That's the God I worship.
You assume way too much. You're also conflating specific religions with the general notion of theism. Theism simply posits a God (or gods) -- it doesn't get specific as to which one (or ones) exist. That's the role of religion.
@OneEyedJack1970: You stated you were a monotheist, so that means there are god or gods you simply don't believe in. That, my friend, makes you an atheist with respect to the god or gods that you DO NOT believe exist.As an atheist I do not believe in any god or gods.
@OneEyedJack1970: Oh come on... if you don't believe X god doesn't exist what does that make you? You needn't fear the word "atheism." Would you feel better with the "agnostic" label with respect to other gods then?
@OneEyedJack1970: What other position can you possibly take when presented with belief, non, or unknown as options? And I'm still wondering how your god operates OUTSIDE of time?
@confluential I don't fear the word atheism. It simply doesn't apply, and neither does agnostic. The fact that I reject false gods doesn't negate my theism in any way.
@OneEyedJack1970: Oh, LOL, here we go! "False gods?" "Negation"? You, my friend, ARE an atheist with respect to gods other than the one you believe in. You can't use your theism to cover this unless you're polytheistic. . Don't you understand what the word "atheism" means?
@OneEyedJack1970: You're not being intellectually honest, my friend. You reject belief in other gods, that makes you an atheist w/ respect to them. So yeah, you're only one god away from being an atheist.LOL
@OneEyedJack1970: Yes sir. You BELIEVE in A GOD.You reject other god beliefs.You don not believe other gods exist. You are an ATHEIST with respect to other beliefs in god that you DO NOT share. Saying "It doesn't apply" is a horrible dodge. Face the truth about yourself. Belief in one thing, and you "negate" the other? You're an ATHEIST with respect to that which you've negated, my friend. You are a MONOTHEIST,yes, but only by ONE god and one god only.
@OneEyedJack1970:And that's why you're only one god away from being an atheist, that's all. It's nothing to be upset over.It's just the truth.PS. Rejecting "false" gods is the same thing as me saying I reject a belief(one reason would be because without evidence I believe a claim to be false). So just be kind to yourself.
As an atheist, I'm not sure. We don't know what the conditions of the universe were at t=0. What does "cause" even mean when there was no time before the "effect"?
My position has always been that just because we don't know the answer to a question doesn't mean we can put any random idea (like god) in there as an explanation and call it valid. Saying he can transcend the rules of logic and physics is just special pleading, and doesn't provide a useful answer to the question.
Irrespective of the idea of a transcendental agent of causality, the atheist mind is still justified in its skepticism toward the idea of a God epistemologically speaking, whether supernatural or entirely natural by its nature. If it is supernatural then it cannot be observed and therefore not demonstrable and even if it does exist I have no reason to believe that it should. If it is natural, then the evidence lies somewhere (cont.)
@platostotle86 in knowledge that currently exists externally from our current epistemological context, and until it can be exposed and therefore its particular immediacy displayed in a completely obvious sense, then I am still justified in my state of disbelief. I don't claim that nothing like a god COULD ever exist... but I've seen no evidence that I've found to be altogether compelling enough to claim god as an axiomatic truth worth devoting my life to.
The universe, I believe has always existed. Time, however, no. I believe that the universe existed before the big bang in a celestial cloud of matter and energy. These coming from virtual particles, which pop in and out of existence randomly. As for backing evidence, we have none. Science is still trying to discover the actual beginning. Other than the answer I have provided, the only other one is that we, as people who follow science, do not yet have an answer to your question yet.
@rationalresponder This is an irrational (pun intended) question. No human can answer this with any kind of certainty. What is wrong with saying "I dont know"? Not not knowing because you are uneducated but not knowing because within our current knowledge of space-time and our universe, we haven't gotten that far. It doesn't mean that either athiest or thiests have to have the answer. Blind faith is an ironic gift to give to the creator of intelligence.
How about this...God MADE the Univerise by creating a so-called "Big Bang"--just so happens that it took 6 (biblical) days to accomplish. He did it that way so our faith could be tested. With proof, there is no faith. With faith, no proof is needed.
I have a strange theory on this subject, which I like to call the "Lung Theory". I believe that the "Big Crunch" happens every so often, and then the Universe begins to expand again. Think of it as a lung. Air goes in (Big Bang and onwards), air goes out (Big Crunch), and it's a continuous cycle. So yes, I believe the Universe has always existed, but not as it is right now.
The Old Lady’s TORTOISE (Hinduism) and DRAGON (Taoism) are symbols for WAVE (energy), both are analog with MAGEN DAVID (Judaism). "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" is the metaphor, and also similar with allegory of rituals Thawaf circling around the Ka'ba and Sa’i oscillating along “the sinus” Marwah-Shafa during the Hajj pilgrimage (Abraham). YIN-YANG: energy-particle . CROSS (Christian) and SWASTIKA (Buddhism) are symbols for “Balance of Nature.”
It is nice how this guy posts a challenge up and then doesn't come back to respond. Nice work sir. Talking here is like praying. There is never any response.
The universe has always existed. This is obvious. As long as time has existed, so has the universe. It had a beginning at the same time as time did. Speaking about anything before the universe began is inherently non-sense. There is no absolute time. To say that 'something' caused the universe or that the universe itself even had a cause is non-sense. It is liking asking me where I was BEFORE I was born. The statements have no meaning.
Chad, I have watched some of your videos and I would like to ask you a sincere question regarding God and the universe. Like you, I am on a spiritual path towards understanding, though I believe there is more to the story than what the message of religion reveals alone. 500 yrs ago people believed the earth was flat. Today, Billy Meier is the best documented UFO contactee in history, claiming spiritual teachings and obtained physical evidence by ETs. Your thoughts? please no jokes or insults
Even if the universe was created via a seperate causer that says nothing about this causer being the particular god of your book. What about the 1000's of other creation myths that posit a causer. And if it is your brand of god that exists then he is not deserving of my worship or attention. Just give up and keep the delusion to yourself - it's much simpler that way.
In response to the video, I would answer with, 'I don't really know,'. I think the universe is just bizarre, and really hard to understand, but just because we don't know doesn't mean we should put something there to answer it. Your question is a little loaded too. You only give us 2 options, either the universe has existed always or it hasn't. You can say 'I don't really know,' on that subject. Also the option between 'either the universe caused itself or there was some being,' is limiting.
''Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever it has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved? '' -Carl Sagan
My answer to the question of how did everything start is none of the above. You are short sighted in the oppisble answer you give. THere is always an answer you as a person may not think of to question and that might be the right answer. That's why i hate when religious people say "God did it".
P.S. what about his question? should the top comment at least have something to do with the purpose of the vid, being he is singling athiest out, you (anyone compelled) should give some universe rheries here
@bradgladin Actually I gave about 4 paragraphs in response to the video itself and this is merely where the conversation led due to acesfull99. You could probably scroll back and read them if you want. In response to your posts do you not see it as endorsement of slavery if it gives rules to guide it? I mean we have laws AGAINST it in our society so we know it is not endorsed. If we had laws to guide slavery we would assume it was endorsed. On that premise the bible endorses it.
@bradgladin You do see that right? I mean if you cannot honestly admit that permitting something endorses it to some extent then we have no grounds to be speaking as honest equals. Because really if Christians opposed slavery from the onset then it would not have been common practice in Western Societies for nearly 2000 years. But there was no major opposition to it from Christians. It was actually deists and atheists who began to oppose it....
but on a better note, i dont want to sound like an ass, we are not enemies, but friends, we must not be enemies... and that wasnt a profit...although it holds much truth-"abe"
@acesfull99 "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;" Ephesians 5:15 Now where is the decline of slavery in the NT? And why do you have to serve with fear and trembling like you would god? Isnt he all warm and fuzzy? It seems to me like you completely overlook all the bad stuff and paint this nice picture.... of Christianity and your god when just the opposite graces the pages of your bible.
@acesfull99 I mean if slavery was more like work..... then why are there rules governing how the master is not responsible if a slave survives a beating after a few days......"Christians were the first abolitionists to condemn slavery because it went against what the Bible taught. " WRONG THE SOUTH USED THE BIBLE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO OWN SLAVES. Are you really that naive? Do you know nothing about history?
@acesfull99 "he slavery of Biblical times was NOT like the slavery people think of today" That is where you go completely wrong. Between Hebrews you could enter a servitude for what 6 or 7 years. Unless you are female then your father gives you away w/o your permission and you never leave service unless you are maimed by your owner. Foreign slaves had no such rights. There rules governing if you beat a slave and he dies but after a few days your not responsible because you do own him afterall.
@acesfull99 Also I notice that I'm quoting a lot more scripture than you are, because there is NO SCRIPTURE backing up your claims. These people were slaves, get it through your thick skull, and yes, the Bible also does go into detail about rules for slavery by race, even though I didn't bring it up, you did. You keep volunteering wrong information, maybe YOU'RE the false prophet! You're lying about your own "word of God"! Seriously, read it and take notes this time.
@acesfull99 I never said slavery as a racial issue, it's an issue of morality, they are still treating a person as property, are you really that stupid that you don't understand that? And if God is all-knowing and omnipotent and the Bible is the word of God, why would there NEED to be any changes? EVER? And yes, the Bible is the ONLY research you can do on "Biblical events" because the majority of them exist NOWHERE ELSE. If God knows all then he knows how his words will be (mis)interpreted.
@acesfull99 "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21)
'Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.' (Ephesians 6:5)
Now do YOUR research douche-nozzle. Your version of God loves slaves, but hates being questioned.
@acesfull99 "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46) Now WHERE does it say they're equal, tardo?
@acesfull99 If it's the "Word of God" why is it wrong, ever? If he's omnipotent why and knew everything that would ever happen, why are there ANY messages that aren't universal, that don't translate to modern day. Did God not know there would be misunderstandings leading to the crusades and the inquisition, and he's not actually omnipotent, or did he just not care which would definitely not make him all caring or all loving. The fictional God character in your book is a giant jealous dick.
@acesfull99 Jesus Christ, really? You're in as much denial as anyone. Yeah, sure, right, it doesn't contradict itself and when it says slavery it actually means blue collar workers. That's idiotic, do your own research. Read the bible again, it's nothing but a 2000 yr old comic book ya moron. How bout where the bible says everything revolves around the Earth and not the sun? I'm sure you have some excuse why that's wrong, after all your "faith" requires you to blindly accept the bibles "facts".
@acesfull99 Do not make it seem as if I am being the biased one. You would believe the story of Jack & the bean stalk if it so graced the pages of the bible because.... you just flat out believe everything that would be in there w/o actually reading it or thinking critically about it. Its not that I am trying to disprove Christianity.... its that there is no proof to assume it is true. Just as there is no proof to assume any other religion is true. And there are more logical reasons for everythi
@CtheWolfe Now come on, be fair. Jack and the Beanstalk is a 100x more believable than Noah's Ark, so of course fanatical Christians would believe it. I'm having a hard time thinking of a story you could stick in that would be more ridiculous. Besides the fact that historians have disproved the story beyond a doubt people actually believe that evolution doesn't exist and Noah put not only two of every animal, but two of every subspecies. To take the Bible literally is to miss the point of it.
@CarlosMensuckass lol I personally like the story of the guy who lives inside the fish for 3 days! And yeah if Evolution doesn't exist Noah collected roughly what 5 million species of animals and insects(forgetting sea life of course) and thats what 1% of all species that have ever lived on earth as far as we can tell.... Place must have been crowded beyond belief if we all lived together in a yellow submarine.... err I mean the garden of Eden lols
@CtheWolfe Actually, I'm pretty sure Bear Grylls lived in a whale on one of the Man vs Wilds.
"When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand." -- Deuteronomy 25:11-12
This reminds me of a rugby rule, one is not allowed to stick a thumb up another player's bum. With such specificity it must have been a recurring problem.
@CarlosMensuckass Really?? Was the whale alive though? I mean you could technically live inside a dead whale for 3 days. The meat wouldn't rot that fast.... it would provide shelter and food.... Reminds me of the Empire Strikes Back haha
@acesfull99 No I actually read it because I wanted to see if there was any merit to the claims. Um cite the source? The KJV bible? The bible is absolutely filled with them. Like that whole resurrection story with the angels and so forth? Historical inaccuracy as well. Like the example of Jesus's birth which I told you to look up. The difference is you believe everything you will read on blind faith from the bible. I read it and think about it theres a difference for sure.
@acesfull99 I also love how you completely avoid the vast majority of my arguments. Then give very uninsightful replies to the material presented. If you want to know where I get this information perhaps you should actually carefully read and remember the bible. You will begin to notice some very big discrepancies if you actually do this.... but hey as most Christians you probably have not fully read your holy book.... I probably refer to it more than you do in my debates alone.
@CtheWolfe eph.6:5* rom 6:16-Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness.v19-I speak as a man, bcause of the weakness of your flesh. For even as you did present your members as servants of uncleanness, and of lawlessness resulting in lawlessness, so now present you members as servants of righteousness, resulting in set-apartness......
back to eph6:6-Not with eyeservice as to menspleasures, but as servants of messiah, doing the desire of elohim (or god, a "discrepancie" im sure your aware of) from the inner self.RENDERING SERVICE WITH PLEASURE, AS TO THE MASTER, AND NOT TO MEN..and im sure many southerners did use the bible for their god given right to own slaves, but that was probly un-educated misinterpritations, like, the whale, and here let me help u out, unicorns and everlasting fire, dragons...
now i do sound crazy huh, if i lacked knowledge of the discrepencies, i might think so to. Tit. ch 2 should be read...v14... we are freed from that which enslaved us all...He did know what would happen to his word...for those who hear, it says so
ex.21:20-if he continue a day or 2....if he LIVES not dies, then he goes on to say for he is his money... never endorses slavery, he's simply pointing out, he should be punished for the taking of the life ...."There rules governing if you beat a slave and he dies but after a few days your not responsible because you do own him afterall."
@bradgladin I would also like to point out that the bible uses the word continue in a context that means with an end. Because if you continue for a day or two the language implies after there would be no continuance. So essentially this means you can beat a slave but if he survives for a couple days you are spared punishment because he is your money or property. I do not see how this conflicts with what I said in the slightest.
@acesfull99 You have pretty weak reasoning in regards to what is a normal difference to be expected from stories. Angels to most would be immensely significant to a witness of any race, religion or breed. To neglect to say "I saw a FUCKING ANGEL!! OH MY GOD!" would be like watching an accident and stating nothing happened..... Do you not agree? How could you possibly see two angels and not say anything about that?
@acesfull99 I mean if your bible cannot get the information straight about Jesus's birth how can we start to even believe the resurrection story..... I mean if all the graves in Jerusalem opened and their inhabitants walked the earth.... at least one contemporary historian would have written about such an event... C'mon now. That is a huge deal.... dead walking again... thousands of graves opened...... Yet no historical record what so ever....
@acesfull99 I never said Jesus never existed. I said he never existed according to the bible. The information in the bible is at great conflict with actual known information about history. You mean to tell me that the people who went to the tomb and saw Jesus all recall completely different people there? That they all saw different things in the tomb? Including angels? Yet others do not report seeing things like angels in the tomb? Think.... angels would be a pretty significant thing....
@acesfull99 You have yet to establish Jesus even existed especially if you look at the historical information. You have yet to have an accurate description of the resurrection... I mean if you read the 4 gospels they do not agree on the majority of who was a witness, what was in the tomb etc etc.... And you expect me to believe the actions I have shown you are moral, just, loving and without sin? How can you expect me to believe any of this if you actually think about it for a second critically.
@acesfull99 To me talking down to someone in such a way. Belittling them, calling them a dog, forcing them to beg when you know you have the power to help them is a sin. I mean how could someone treat another person this way, when they can easily help them...... This is the man you look up to for your moral guidance? That you think these traits prove he is God? Really think about what you are trying to pass off. Perhaps this Jesus guy is leading you away from Brahma of the Hindu tradition....
@acesfull99 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." "it is not meet to take the children's bread, and cast it to dogs." Basically he says I cannot help you because you are not one of my own. Hes looking down on this helpless woman because she is not of Israel but Canaan. In the end her begging wins him over but does this actually seem like the actions of someone who loves all of mankind? Why talk down to her? Why not just help this poor woman in the first place?
@acesfull99 You have no actual proof outside a shoddy account in the bible in which the witnesses cannot even agree upon the facts as proof Christ actually rose from the dead. How did he beat sin? He promoted slavery, he was sexist, racist and very much so below modern day westerners in moral ethics. Yet you say he beat sin? For instance in Matthew 15:26 after having a woman beg her to help her child he calls them dogs.
@acesfull99 Do you see how your central arguments for your religion carry virtually no weight in light of other religions? I mean Sai Baba in India has LIVING eye witnesses that will attest to him performing all the exact same miracles that Christ was supposed to have done. So again we are at a stand still with which religion is true.... and considering as a species we have had a nasty habit across all cultures to create deities or deify aspects of nature... how do you see Christ as true?
@acesfull99 I would also like to ask how do you see the resurrection of Christ as being any different than any other religions stories? I mean the Hindu religion for instance predates Christianity by nearly 5000 years or more depending on the historical estimate. The Vedas from which Hinduism formed is very old. Been written down since before the Hebrew people could write..... Does the length of existence of the claims lend credit to the claim? If so Hinduism or Buddhism or most likely correct.
@acesfull99 "And it was written down no more than 70 years after His death" That is for the Gospel of Mark I believe hope I am not getting that mixed up with Matthew. But anyways many of the other writings are after that. Some that are relatively close to the point in which the Church decided to compile writings and form the NT. Did you by chance look into the historical events listed in Matthew 2 and Luke 2?
@acesfull99 If you take into context the deification of Christ under Constantine after Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman Empire to suit the current aspects of the Roman traditions and concepts of gods.... you really gain perspective on the miraculous and all the hidden zodiac information within the Christian scriptures..... but I imagine you do not actually know this much about history or theology do you? If you do sorry for the offense.
@acesfull99 And on the resurrection bit.... you do know that there are some major discrepancies between the gospels as to who the witnesses were, what was inside the tomb so forth..... So I mean the resurrection story in the bible itself is contradictory..... And if not having the ability to disprove certain events in a religion makes it valid and true..... ALL RELIGIONS ARE TRUE and you are going to hell regardless :) so the ability to disprove does not give validity to the claim. Think
@acesfull99 I would like you to prove that the biblical Christ even existed in light of the information that his birth was wrong. We need to establish the fellow even existed before we can more formerly tear the rest of his history apart. =D I also encourage you to actually look at third party neutral historian/historical information in your pursuit of the events I listed in question to get unbiased info on the subject.
@acesfull99 How about I prove that Christ never existed according to the bible. Go read Matthew 2 and Luke 2 for the historical information. King Herod died 8 years prior to Cyrenius(Quirinius) was ever appointed governor(Legates) of Syria and that was 2 years prior to the first taxation or census held by Caesar Augustus. So seeing as how there is approx a 10 year gap neglecting that Matthew two has Herod killing all children under 2 in the area (presumably Jesus could have been this old)
Think about the vastness of the universe. I mean we are not even the size of a grain of sand compared to that. If we are the primary reason for all of this(how fucking egotistical could one person be) then why is our universe not scaled to suit our size? Why is it so grossly out of proportion to the intention of the universe? This would be the equivalent of creating our solar system for a single bacteria to live in. Actually its probably far past that. How illogical.
I mean think about it. You think the most basic state of all things is a consciousness that exists outside everything, yet it can interact with anything, that can just "will" things into existence without use of previous material. This in your mind is the most basic state of all of everything? That hardly seems plausible. Oh and then you make the leap to the portion where you know its the God of the bible.... how could you possibly do that if you had read the bible?
.....our universe began to expand? I mean this is one little thing I can think of off the top of my head. What evidence is there to suggest this is what actually happened. Probably none that we have, yet it is highly more plausibly that this singularity depleted its own energy source that drove it or some internal cause or reaction made it fail thus our universe was sprung into existence with the ability for celestial bodies to form. God is far less likely than either of those scenarios.....
I mean if you had actually read the BBT you would understand that everything is believed to have been contained in an infinitely dense singularity. Now imagine the force that would have to be exerted to contain so many elements and so much energy. Our TINY sun with all its power is but a mere fraction of the energy and matter that would have been there. Do you not think it is possible this energy condensed enough could have an internal reaction that cause the singularity to fail and thus....
What you have set up here is a false dichotomy. Because you cannot see any other explanation for the current state of our universe. Key word STATE. Yes our universe did have a beginning and the BBT is the most accurate representation of the evidence we see. However this does not mean there were no precursors or changes to the matter and energy that comprise our current universe. For instance you assume a cause has to be an external source... why? An agent from outside?
Your understanding of science is either shamefully poor, or you are being deliberately misleading for the sake of your argument.
Science is based on evidence, not belief, Stephen Hawking has eliminated the need for any "god" as a causality in any assertions he makes, and the universe, thus far, has been, extrapolated back to the rapid expansion of a singularity, some 13.7 B.Y. ago.
Any prior causality is an unknown. Feel free to wedge in your debunked and irrational superstitions if you wish!
@38tyranny2 But seeing in shades of grey is haaaaard. I was raised Christian and I'm still in awe today of the fact that anyone who actually puts 100% faith in the Bible, must not have read the whole thing. If they did, there's no way they could put faith in 100% of the Bible, it condones slavery- even details how to do it correctly, it contradicts itself several times. Why would an all knowing God make the mistake that everything revolves around the Earth and not the Sun?
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
The love has been given, don't let it pass you, love is patient, it is waiting for you, God is waiting.
---
Juan 3:16 "Porque de tal manera amo Dios al mundo, que ha dado a su hijo unegito, para que todo aquel que en el cree, no se pierda mas tega vida eterna."
El amor ya es dado, no lo deje pasar, amor es paciente, te esta esperando, Dios te espera.
@rememberthename33 exatly someone gets it.....like if there is proof of god anything besides in the bible because a book on its own cant proove anything unless it has the facts to back it up and if anyone actually has proof god exists show me
Nobody on earth has the answer to what started the universe. All the 'options' you propose are therefore nonsensical. And defaulting on a god, is the classic christian argument or 'god of gaps' argument, that basically conveniently places god in for whatever science can't explain, even though there's no evidence for god itself.
if u beleive that everything must have a genesis and hence god created the universe, please, apply that same logic to the question of a deity's existence. what do u suppose created that piece of fiction called God?
Has the universe always existed? Yes and no. My understanding of time is that it is dependent on space, so you can't have time without space. However space as we know it came in to existence with the big bang.
The question is based on premises that may be not relevant. Once we hit that singularity point everything that we take for granted like what the rules that make up time and space are kind of go out the window.
@BigLundi - I didn't mention hell: non-issue. U still give nothing to change the heart, so people will desire to stop, or not start stealing, etc. U give no real reason to believe stealing is actually wrong, not just a societal majoritarian opinion as 'wrong'. Hear about gas stealers? Saw business trucks to steal gas, siphon cars, etc. Many do crime & never get caught. How can U say something is actually wrong beyond majoritarian society rule? Do U have a way to change hearts for a society?
superfrisbie - No. When we HAVE more than 2 options, it would be a false either/or, or false dichotomy. U have nothing for a third option, so we R back to 2 options. U say universe had a beginning & it's proven (I agree), then all see OBSERVE shows us all things that exist had a beginning with maker of it/them. Sorry, it makes more sense to think a Deity outside of time, space & mater created it than saying there was nothing & nothing produced time, space & matter.
@aloric645 - Actually, the Big Bang is that time, space & matter came into existence at that point. Therefore, the Creator would have to be outside of what came into existence.
Atheists have nothing before time, space & matter existed.
It makes more sense to think a Creator was before, & is outside of what is created, than creation came from no thing or Divine Creator/Designer. ALL I see is makers create creations- art, cars, chairs, etc.
@harry4health Actually, it makes more sense to believe that the big bang was an explosion of energy happened as science tells us that energy is the one thing that can not be created or destroyed. When you say that a magical sky being created us in his image it is logical to ask whos image was he created in.
@aloric645 - Ah, so science has proven energy is eternal- before Big Bang?Outside of time/space/matter? CANNOT be God as user of energy? Absolutely no pantheistic Energy-as-God? One atheist said in discussion "there was something before the BB, we simply have no proper way of describing it.". The Indescribable Something? Atheists switch from eternal universe to eternal energy. I don't see the iea as solid & how do we know incontrovertibly that energy is eternal?
@aloric645 - No, it isn't logical to ask in whose image God was made. If God exists & created time/space/matter then Deity has to be outside of it. Deity- maybe transcendent or imminent? SOMETHING or SOMEONE has to be eternal. U like to place energy on the throne of eternal. IT is the self-existent One? Please prove that. U fill in the blank with impersonal Energy as Eternal. Most say God is the source of energy & is the Self-Existent One. I don't find Energy as the sure reason to discount God
@aloric645 - No, he does not HAVE to have a Designer. UR assuming U know the NATURE of the Deity that exists. We would then have an infinite regress of Designer Gods with no beginning. That doesn't make sense. Eternal line of Designer Gods or eternal universe- it still comes down to where did the first one come from & how did it/he/they come into existence. IF God is outside of time/space/matter & Self-existent, then that makes the MOST sense, at least.
No, the universe didn't always exist, it's been proven. Saything that there are only two options: it created itself or god created it, is a "false dichotomy" fallacy. Just because we can't think of a third (or fourth, fifth, so on...) possibility, doesn't mean there isn't one. I have no problem saying "I don't know" to this question, but i'm not buying into the god explination (or any explination at all) without objective convincing evidence. Who ever said we can know the answer to any question?
does that make me believe in a Biblical God ? No way Man !! 100k Sumerian Tablets tell entire story of mankind and they pre date the 2000 yr old Bible !
"The lost book of Enki" is the memoirs of God or what Man thought was his God and he tells the stories that are the same as in the bible ! except there about 1500 or more years older then the Bible./ Ancient man was confused as hell to what they witnessed and told the story they best they could Enk tells it like it happened
We can go on debating about who made the Universe but after 20 years of going after spirits and EVP's one EVP hit me hard and it was from a man that lived in the 1800's that traveled town to twn., on horse back in Florida he was a preacher/minister of his church. I was sitting in his home talked to him his wife and I think some 30 yr old female I asked him Robert now that your on the other side is there really a God ? His reply was "God is all around you"
but the first law of thermodynamics gives possbile direction
"The law expresses that energy can be transformed, i.e. changed from one form to another, but cannot be created nor destroyed. It is usually formulated by stating that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of heat supplied to the system, minus the amount of work performed by the system on its surroundings."
The major flaw is you saying that we only have 2 choices. 2nd, if everything needs a cause, what caused god? Could the cause of the universe be the singularity become unstable causing all the matter contained within to expand outward in a bang? Is there evidence that things can spontaneously explode, yes there is. Do I need to jump to the conclusion that there must have been a god to make that happen, i sure dont. If god doesnt do anything now, what proof is there he ever did? bible isnt proof
It was actually the bible that turned me off to christianity. My moral stance prevents me from devoting myself to a god that would instruct his followers to have a "kill everything that moves" attitude, specifically listing the elderly and infants as well as raping the women. This makes the biblical god a hypocrite. Not for me.
This was sent to me in January and I just now bothered to check it out...
When I look at the intricate functions of nature, I do not see how it could be purely accidental. But, I do not think that man has come anywhere near describing the creative force and I definitely do not think it should be personified in any way.
This was sent to me in January and I just now bothered to check it out...
When I look at the intricate functions of nature, I do not see how it could be purely accidental. But, I do not think that man has come anywhere near describing the creative force and I definitely do not think it could be personified in any way.
1:45... totally irrational thought process. Makes no sense whatsoever. Something has to exist in its form... in order to create its form? Oh dear.
Anyways... if the Universe was created in all its glory and wonders by an omnipotent, all powerful 'being'... who created it? Or did 'it' always exist? If so... why could the Universe not always have existed? And... can this all-powerful God create a box, which it cannot itself open? If so... it is not all powerful. If not... it is not all powerful.
@xchampx That is true. However, the answer to that question is still "We don't know" and it is a perfectly acceptable answer. The one thing science does not do is chastise or theraten when that answer is given. Available data still points to the big bang, and not supernatural voodoo.
before the universe and thus nothing except mathematics and chance itself may be responsible for our existence. also, how was god created?
sorry8140 1 month ago
based on top notch scientists from whom i have read (michio kaku, stephen hawking) i believe that the universe has not always existed. according to quantum theory and the uncertainty principle, matter can be created from nothing. this happens constantly between protons and electrons. the universe may have been a particle that gained stability. before the universe, i do not know what there was. i do know this: numbers always have existed. so if physics follows mathematical laws it can exist...
sorry8140 1 month ago
WHATEVER THE REASON BEHIND THE UNIVERSE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A MAGICAL SUPREME CREATOR, OR GOD, DEITY.. ETC. ETC....WE ARE HERE AND WE EVOLVED... FACT... There is no god... He's imaginary...
ryantheatheist22 1 month ago
time cannot have a beginning, because there is nothing before time. beginning implies that there was something before it. because time and space came into existence simultaneously, it is eternal because nothing existed before them.
sagerbj86 1 month ago
@sagerbj86 :Existence exists.It's really that simple.
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential that's got nothing to do with what i said. nothing at all.
sagerbj86 1 month ago
@sagerbj86: But that's the essence, boiled down for you. Existence has ALWAYS existed.
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential Existence of what though? I get what you're saying, but existence is a state of entropy that is instantaneous. Something can exist today, and not exist tomorrow. If you're talking about matter, than yes, matter has to have always existed because before the existence of matter, there was nothing. how can nothing exist when there is nothing? the concept of nothing and before time and things that christians can't quite grasp.
sagerbj86 1 month ago
@sagerbj86: Just "existence." It doesn't matter what it is. Reality has never NOT been reality.Do you see what I mean, now?
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential: The universe is anything and everything "in reality"
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential : Whether "physical" or "metaphysical"......In other words the Law of Identity, The Law Of Excluded Middle, The Law of Non-contradiction, are eternal.
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential no i get what you're saying. but you can't say just existence, because existence is a state of instantaneous entropy. do you get what i'm saying? but i think that we can agree that matter has always existed, and the universe has always existed, because you cannot define nothingness as ever existing.
sagerbj86 1 month ago
@sagerbj86: Well, we mainly agree, but you understand if you say "matter has always existed," that belongs to a class or category of existence. Not as a label, but as its essence. So that's why I say "existence has always existed"
confluential 1 month ago
@sagerbj86: Just like anything real belongs to the larger class of reality. But whether or not something exists physically, the laws of existence still apply; just like the laws of reality said in another way.
confluential 1 month ago
i wish i knew... sadly i dont even have the slightest clue. its such a hard thing to wrap your head around. i can't see the universe occuring spontaneosly, always being there, or being created....
1:33 good point, but the same thing goes for god. did god cause himself to exist or was he created?
how many licks does it take to get to the center of the universe? the WORLD may never know...
LOGIC42369 1 month ago
I don't believe there will ever be any true evedance where the galaxy came from or if our solar system is the only one that holds life. But I assure you that your rablings you portray as proof of anything makes no sense. And stop using the word cause. My parents had sex thats the only reason I exist.
bornagainanathiest 1 month ago in playlist More videos from rationalresponder
If we ask, 'has the universe always existed?' Then we have to ask, 'has god always existed?' If we ask, 'did the universe come from nothing?' then we have to ask, 'did god come from nothing?' It's the type of argument that will go round and round. Science doesn't know for sure how the universe began, but they'll figure it out. Maybe not in our lifetime, but they will. Just because science doesn't know is not a good reason to default to "god must have done it!"
tra1215 1 month ago
Meh, the more I watch these videos the more boring they become. You give us three options, none of which we can definitively know the answer to, and then we're supposed to argue about who's right? No one knows! Why compare a creation myth's take on it to the current scientific understanding? Even if we found that some force caused the universe to exist that wouldn't do jack all for proving that it was your god that did it.
Zabetheconfused 2 months ago
What is your supporting evidence that your god created the universe? The bible is a book written by men so that is not a valid evidence. Your beliefs are as good as anybody else's disbeliefs. Your faith is just as good as anybody's doubts. So if there is no proven evidence there is no thruth.
PALOMITA694 2 months ago
Of course the Universe has not always existed. It had a transcendental causal agent, which sent you a message recently.
The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.
The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.
See ' God says sorry. '
lacontrabasse 2 months ago
@ foxhole- my question to you is, why then do most atheist fume at the idea of a creator (since there isn't any other known explanation) instead of taking it into consideration that if the laws that govern this universe can't explain its existence then there might possibly be a transcendental agent that caused its existence? Why throw out the idea of God?
michaeldstender 3 months ago
How can you question if the that universe always existed, then why not easily disregard that God always existed
dirtleg27 3 months ago
@dirtleg27 Because the universe is subjected to physical laws. A transcendental Creator isn't. How can God be bound by time if He created time?
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: That's a logical contradiction. If god exists, it/she/he would operate WITHIN the confines of time.If you claim "god" isn't within the bounds of time, then it's a moot point. You're only "making up" a construct that you "hope" is bigger than the confines of logical laws, but you can do that with the "tickle goddess" as well.
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential There's no contradiction at all. A transcendental Creator would have to be outside of time, space, energy, and matter in order to create those things. That doesn't mean He can't enter and operate within His creation.
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970:All you're doing is making that ability up, though. Just assigning magic abilities to a god is useless because there's no way to falsify or validate the claim. As I said, we're only familiar with operating WITHIN time to be meaningful. Anything OUTSIDE ..... is just special pleading. In other words, my magic invisible leprechaun is transcendental also....
confluential 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: And I could continue giving more and more special circumstances as an answer for logical contradictions that you'd be offering up almost endlessly. You're probably only one god away from being an atheist.
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential Your argument is akin to saying someone can build a house, but they can never walk inside it. Which makes it pretty easy to dismiss as nonsense.
And I'm nowhere near being an atheist. I'm a firm monotheist.
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: No sir. I am saying you're merely positing that a god can operate OUTSIDE of time.My point to you is that anything OUTSIDE of time is meaningless. And if your god operates WITHIN time, that means it has to defer to objective laws. So at best, your god can't be all powerful. And believe me, you're an atheist by default if you say you're a monotheist.... do you believe in any other god besides the christian one? Just want to make sure I am understanding you.
confluential 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: Also, I am familiar with building houses WITHIN TIME that you can walk into, but can you give me an example of any house built OUTSIDE of time? Can you offer me any evidence besides speculation that it WAS in fact built OUTSIDE of time?
Thanks.
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential "believe me, you're an atheist by default if you say you're a monotheist.... "
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, man.
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: Okay, it seems like it's going over your head just a little. Simple questions: "Are you Jewish?" If not, then you don't believe the god of Judaism exists. Same with "Muslim." It means with respect to Islam you don't believe such a god exists. THAT'S why you're only a god away from being an atheist. Do you understand now? Unless you are polytheistic, there are other gods you don't believe in. That makes you an atheist with respect to the other "gods."
confluential 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: And I am still wondering what evidence you have that any god operates OUTSIDE of time? Thanks.
confluential 1 month ago
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@confluential "And I am still wondering what evidence you have that any god operates OUTSIDE of time? Thanks"
The fact that time had a beginning.
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@confluential 'Simple questions: "Are you Jewish?'
No. I'm Baptist.
'If not, then you don't believe the god of Judaism exists'
Wrong. I do believe the God of Judaism exists. That's the God I worship.
You assume way too much. You're also conflating specific religions with the general notion of theism. Theism simply posits a God (or gods) -- it doesn't get specific as to which one (or ones) exist. That's the role of religion.
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970 : Okay, but are there any gods that you DON'T believe exist?
That's the question here.Which god or gods do you reject? Do you believe in more than one?
confluential 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: You stated you were a monotheist, so that means there are god or gods you simply don't believe in. That, my friend, makes you an atheist with respect to the god or gods that you DO NOT believe exist.As an atheist I do not believe in any god or gods.
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential No, it doesn't. You're conflating theism with specific religious beliefs. This is equivocation. It's a fallacious argument.
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: Oh come on... if you don't believe X god doesn't exist what does that make you? You needn't fear the word "atheism." Would you feel better with the "agnostic" label with respect to other gods then?
confluential 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: What other position can you possibly take when presented with belief, non, or unknown as options? And I'm still wondering how your god operates OUTSIDE of time?
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential I don't fear the word atheism. It simply doesn't apply, and neither does agnostic. The fact that I reject false gods doesn't negate my theism in any way.
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: Oh, LOL, here we go! "False gods?" "Negation"? You, my friend, ARE an atheist with respect to gods other than the one you believe in. You can't use your theism to cover this unless you're polytheistic. . Don't you understand what the word "atheism" means?
confluential 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: You're not being intellectually honest, my friend. You reject belief in other gods, that makes you an atheist w/ respect to them. So yeah, you're only one god away from being an atheist.LOL
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential "You're not being intellectually honest, my friend. "
I'm not the one using equivocation in my arguments.
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970 : No equivocation here, sir. I just know happen to know what theism, atheism, and agnosticism are.
confluential 1 month ago
@confluential 'Don't you understand what the word "atheism" means'
Of course I do. Atheism is the belief that there are no gods at all. Do you understand what the word "monotheism" means?
OneEyedJack1970 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970: Yes sir. You BELIEVE in A GOD.You reject other god beliefs.You don not believe other gods exist. You are an ATHEIST with respect to other beliefs in god that you DO NOT share. Saying "It doesn't apply" is a horrible dodge. Face the truth about yourself. Belief in one thing, and you "negate" the other? You're an ATHEIST with respect to that which you've negated, my friend. You are a MONOTHEIST,yes, but only by ONE god and one god only.
confluential 1 month ago
@OneEyedJack1970:And that's why you're only one god away from being an atheist, that's all. It's nothing to be upset over.It's just the truth.PS. Rejecting "false" gods is the same thing as me saying I reject a belief(one reason would be because without evidence I believe a claim to be false). So just be kind to yourself.
confluential 1 month ago
As an atheist, I'm not sure. We don't know what the conditions of the universe were at t=0. What does "cause" even mean when there was no time before the "effect"?
My position has always been that just because we don't know the answer to a question doesn't mean we can put any random idea (like god) in there as an explanation and call it valid. Saying he can transcend the rules of logic and physics is just special pleading, and doesn't provide a useful answer to the question.
foxhole8063 3 months ago
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hmmm... maybe you should research quantum physics
konohanominato 4 months ago
Irrespective of the idea of a transcendental agent of causality, the atheist mind is still justified in its skepticism toward the idea of a God epistemologically speaking, whether supernatural or entirely natural by its nature. If it is supernatural then it cannot be observed and therefore not demonstrable and even if it does exist I have no reason to believe that it should. If it is natural, then the evidence lies somewhere (cont.)
platostotle86 4 months ago
@platostotle86 in knowledge that currently exists externally from our current epistemological context, and until it can be exposed and therefore its particular immediacy displayed in a completely obvious sense, then I am still justified in my state of disbelief. I don't claim that nothing like a god COULD ever exist... but I've seen no evidence that I've found to be altogether compelling enough to claim god as an axiomatic truth worth devoting my life to.
platostotle86 4 months ago
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Frequency404 4 months ago
The universe, I believe has always existed. Time, however, no. I believe that the universe existed before the big bang in a celestial cloud of matter and energy. These coming from virtual particles, which pop in and out of existence randomly. As for backing evidence, we have none. Science is still trying to discover the actual beginning. Other than the answer I have provided, the only other one is that we, as people who follow science, do not yet have an answer to your question yet.
atheistjacob 5 months ago
There is no god.
We must accept that we may never know how the universe came into being.
Me not knowing that does not make theist right, they are just the deluded wrong.
torrid426 5 months ago
@rationalresponder This is an irrational (pun intended) question. No human can answer this with any kind of certainty. What is wrong with saying "I dont know"? Not not knowing because you are uneducated but not knowing because within our current knowledge of space-time and our universe, we haven't gotten that far. It doesn't mean that either athiest or thiests have to have the answer. Blind faith is an ironic gift to give to the creator of intelligence.
mjfraser04 5 months ago
How about this...God MADE the Univerise by creating a so-called "Big Bang"--just so happens that it took 6 (biblical) days to accomplish. He did it that way so our faith could be tested. With proof, there is no faith. With faith, no proof is needed.
MrDESecristII 5 months ago
@MrDESecristII
How about this? Shut up.
Frequency404 4 months ago
@Frequency404 How about saying something intelligent? I'll listen if you stop talking out of your arse.
MrDESecristII 4 months ago
@MrDESecristII
If that's true it only proves even my arse hates you.
Frequency404 4 months ago
I have a strange theory on this subject, which I like to call the "Lung Theory". I believe that the "Big Crunch" happens every so often, and then the Universe begins to expand again. Think of it as a lung. Air goes in (Big Bang and onwards), air goes out (Big Crunch), and it's a continuous cycle. So yes, I believe the Universe has always existed, but not as it is right now.
Sol1dH3x 6 months ago
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GOD - Philosophia Perennis and Science.
The Old Lady’s TORTOISE (Hinduism) and DRAGON (Taoism) are symbols for WAVE (energy), both are analog with MAGEN DAVID (Judaism). "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" is the metaphor, and also similar with allegory of rituals Thawaf circling around the Ka'ba and Sa’i oscillating along “the sinus” Marwah-Shafa during the Hajj pilgrimage (Abraham). YIN-YANG: energy-particle . CROSS (Christian) and SWASTIKA (Buddhism) are symbols for “Balance of Nature.”
TatoSugiarto 6 months ago
It is nice how this guy posts a challenge up and then doesn't come back to respond. Nice work sir. Talking here is like praying. There is never any response.
adam3251 7 months ago
The universe has always existed. This is obvious. As long as time has existed, so has the universe. It had a beginning at the same time as time did. Speaking about anything before the universe began is inherently non-sense. There is no absolute time. To say that 'something' caused the universe or that the universe itself even had a cause is non-sense. It is liking asking me where I was BEFORE I was born. The statements have no meaning.
adam3251 7 months ago
Chad, I have watched some of your videos and I would like to ask you a sincere question regarding God and the universe. Like you, I am on a spiritual path towards understanding, though I believe there is more to the story than what the message of religion reveals alone. 500 yrs ago people believed the earth was flat. Today, Billy Meier is the best documented UFO contactee in history, claiming spiritual teachings and obtained physical evidence by ETs. Your thoughts? please no jokes or insults
devendati 7 months ago
@devendati You are joking right. People have known the earth was round for 2000 years and Bill Meier is clearly a hoaxer. You know this right?
adam3251 7 months ago
Even if the universe was created via a seperate causer that says nothing about this causer being the particular god of your book. What about the 1000's of other creation myths that posit a causer. And if it is your brand of god that exists then he is not deserving of my worship or attention. Just give up and keep the delusion to yourself - it's much simpler that way.
rictusgate 7 months ago
In response to the video, I would answer with, 'I don't really know,'. I think the universe is just bizarre, and really hard to understand, but just because we don't know doesn't mean we should put something there to answer it. Your question is a little loaded too. You only give us 2 options, either the universe has existed always or it hasn't. You can say 'I don't really know,' on that subject. Also the option between 'either the universe caused itself or there was some being,' is limiting.
TheBiddleMan 7 months ago
''Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever it has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved? '' -Carl Sagan
Schutzstaffel23 7 months ago
oh how did i know the ratings would be disabled on this video.
Schutzstaffel23 7 months ago 2
My answer to the question of how did everything start is none of the above. You are short sighted in the oppisble answer you give. THere is always an answer you as a person may not think of to question and that might be the right answer. That's why i hate when religious people say "God did it".
kokofan50 7 months ago
P.S. what about his question? should the top comment at least have something to do with the purpose of the vid, being he is singling athiest out, you (anyone compelled) should give some universe rheries here
bradgladin 8 months ago
@bradgladin Actually I gave about 4 paragraphs in response to the video itself and this is merely where the conversation led due to acesfull99. You could probably scroll back and read them if you want. In response to your posts do you not see it as endorsement of slavery if it gives rules to guide it? I mean we have laws AGAINST it in our society so we know it is not endorsed. If we had laws to guide slavery we would assume it was endorsed. On that premise the bible endorses it.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago
@bradgladin You do see that right? I mean if you cannot honestly admit that permitting something endorses it to some extent then we have no grounds to be speaking as honest equals. Because really if Christians opposed slavery from the onset then it would not have been common practice in Western Societies for nearly 2000 years. But there was no major opposition to it from Christians. It was actually deists and atheists who began to oppose it....
CtheWolfe 8 months ago
but on a better note, i dont want to sound like an ass, we are not enemies, but friends, we must not be enemies... and that wasnt a profit...although it holds much truth-"abe"
bradgladin 8 months ago
@acesfull99 "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;" Ephesians 5:15 Now where is the decline of slavery in the NT? And why do you have to serve with fear and trembling like you would god? Isnt he all warm and fuzzy? It seems to me like you completely overlook all the bad stuff and paint this nice picture.... of Christianity and your god when just the opposite graces the pages of your bible.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 2
@acesfull99 I mean if slavery was more like work..... then why are there rules governing how the master is not responsible if a slave survives a beating after a few days......"Christians were the first abolitionists to condemn slavery because it went against what the Bible taught. " WRONG THE SOUTH USED THE BIBLE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO OWN SLAVES. Are you really that naive? Do you know nothing about history?
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 2
@acesfull99 "he slavery of Biblical times was NOT like the slavery people think of today" That is where you go completely wrong. Between Hebrews you could enter a servitude for what 6 or 7 years. Unless you are female then your father gives you away w/o your permission and you never leave service unless you are maimed by your owner. Foreign slaves had no such rights. There rules governing if you beat a slave and he dies but after a few days your not responsible because you do own him afterall.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 2
@acesfull99 Also I notice that I'm quoting a lot more scripture than you are, because there is NO SCRIPTURE backing up your claims. These people were slaves, get it through your thick skull, and yes, the Bible also does go into detail about rules for slavery by race, even though I didn't bring it up, you did. You keep volunteering wrong information, maybe YOU'RE the false prophet! You're lying about your own "word of God"! Seriously, read it and take notes this time.
CarlosMensuckass 8 months ago 3
@acesfull99 I never said slavery as a racial issue, it's an issue of morality, they are still treating a person as property, are you really that stupid that you don't understand that? And if God is all-knowing and omnipotent and the Bible is the word of God, why would there NEED to be any changes? EVER? And yes, the Bible is the ONLY research you can do on "Biblical events" because the majority of them exist NOWHERE ELSE. If God knows all then he knows how his words will be (mis)interpreted.
CarlosMensuckass 8 months ago 12
@acesfull99 "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21)
'Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.' (Ephesians 6:5)
Now do YOUR research douche-nozzle. Your version of God loves slaves, but hates being questioned.
CarlosMensuckass 8 months ago 3
@acesfull99 "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46) Now WHERE does it say they're equal, tardo?
CarlosMensuckass 8 months ago 3
@acesfull99 If it's the "Word of God" why is it wrong, ever? If he's omnipotent why and knew everything that would ever happen, why are there ANY messages that aren't universal, that don't translate to modern day. Did God not know there would be misunderstandings leading to the crusades and the inquisition, and he's not actually omnipotent, or did he just not care which would definitely not make him all caring or all loving. The fictional God character in your book is a giant jealous dick.
BnBBobby 8 months ago 3
@acesfull99 lol!!! If you had to do research before posting on YouTube then you should have shut up long ago!! LOL!
Steph95ish 8 months ago 2
@acesfull99 Jesus Christ, really? You're in as much denial as anyone. Yeah, sure, right, it doesn't contradict itself and when it says slavery it actually means blue collar workers. That's idiotic, do your own research. Read the bible again, it's nothing but a 2000 yr old comic book ya moron. How bout where the bible says everything revolves around the Earth and not the sun? I'm sure you have some excuse why that's wrong, after all your "faith" requires you to blindly accept the bibles "facts".
CarlosMensuckass 8 months ago 6
@acesfull99 Do not make it seem as if I am being the biased one. You would believe the story of Jack & the bean stalk if it so graced the pages of the bible because.... you just flat out believe everything that would be in there w/o actually reading it or thinking critically about it. Its not that I am trying to disprove Christianity.... its that there is no proof to assume it is true. Just as there is no proof to assume any other religion is true. And there are more logical reasons for everythi
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 7
@CtheWolfe Now come on, be fair. Jack and the Beanstalk is a 100x more believable than Noah's Ark, so of course fanatical Christians would believe it. I'm having a hard time thinking of a story you could stick in that would be more ridiculous. Besides the fact that historians have disproved the story beyond a doubt people actually believe that evolution doesn't exist and Noah put not only two of every animal, but two of every subspecies. To take the Bible literally is to miss the point of it.
CarlosMensuckass 8 months ago 2
@CarlosMensuckass lol I personally like the story of the guy who lives inside the fish for 3 days! And yeah if Evolution doesn't exist Noah collected roughly what 5 million species of animals and insects(forgetting sea life of course) and thats what 1% of all species that have ever lived on earth as far as we can tell.... Place must have been crowded beyond belief if we all lived together in a yellow submarine.... err I mean the garden of Eden lols
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 3
@CtheWolfe Actually, I'm pretty sure Bear Grylls lived in a whale on one of the Man vs Wilds.
"When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand." -- Deuteronomy 25:11-12
This reminds me of a rugby rule, one is not allowed to stick a thumb up another player's bum. With such specificity it must have been a recurring problem.
CarlosMensuckass 8 months ago
@CarlosMensuckass Really?? Was the whale alive though? I mean you could technically live inside a dead whale for 3 days. The meat wouldn't rot that fast.... it would provide shelter and food.... Reminds me of the Empire Strikes Back haha
CtheWolfe 8 months ago
@acesfull99 No I actually read it because I wanted to see if there was any merit to the claims. Um cite the source? The KJV bible? The bible is absolutely filled with them. Like that whole resurrection story with the angels and so forth? Historical inaccuracy as well. Like the example of Jesus's birth which I told you to look up. The difference is you believe everything you will read on blind faith from the bible. I read it and think about it theres a difference for sure.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 6
@acesfull99 I also love how you completely avoid the vast majority of my arguments. Then give very uninsightful replies to the material presented. If you want to know where I get this information perhaps you should actually carefully read and remember the bible. You will begin to notice some very big discrepancies if you actually do this.... but hey as most Christians you probably have not fully read your holy book.... I probably refer to it more than you do in my debates alone.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 9
@CtheWolfe eph.6:5* rom 6:16-Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness.v19-I speak as a man, bcause of the weakness of your flesh. For even as you did present your members as servants of uncleanness, and of lawlessness resulting in lawlessness, so now present you members as servants of righteousness, resulting in set-apartness......
bradgladin 8 months ago
back to eph6:6-Not with eyeservice as to menspleasures, but as servants of messiah, doing the desire of elohim (or god, a "discrepancie" im sure your aware of) from the inner self.RENDERING SERVICE WITH PLEASURE, AS TO THE MASTER, AND NOT TO MEN..and im sure many southerners did use the bible for their god given right to own slaves, but that was probly un-educated misinterpritations, like, the whale, and here let me help u out, unicorns and everlasting fire, dragons...
bradgladin 8 months ago
now i do sound crazy huh, if i lacked knowledge of the discrepencies, i might think so to. Tit. ch 2 should be read...v14... we are freed from that which enslaved us all...He did know what would happen to his word...for those who hear, it says so
bradgladin 8 months ago
ex.21:20-if he continue a day or 2....if he LIVES not dies, then he goes on to say for he is his money... never endorses slavery, he's simply pointing out, he should be punished for the taking of the life ...."There rules governing if you beat a slave and he dies but after a few days your not responsible because you do own him afterall."
bradgladin 8 months ago
@bradgladin I would also like to point out that the bible uses the word continue in a context that means with an end. Because if you continue for a day or two the language implies after there would be no continuance. So essentially this means you can beat a slave but if he survives for a couple days you are spared punishment because he is your money or property. I do not see how this conflicts with what I said in the slightest.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago
@acesfull99 You have pretty weak reasoning in regards to what is a normal difference to be expected from stories. Angels to most would be immensely significant to a witness of any race, religion or breed. To neglect to say "I saw a FUCKING ANGEL!! OH MY GOD!" would be like watching an accident and stating nothing happened..... Do you not agree? How could you possibly see two angels and not say anything about that?
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 5
@acesfull99 I mean if your bible cannot get the information straight about Jesus's birth how can we start to even believe the resurrection story..... I mean if all the graves in Jerusalem opened and their inhabitants walked the earth.... at least one contemporary historian would have written about such an event... C'mon now. That is a huge deal.... dead walking again... thousands of graves opened...... Yet no historical record what so ever....
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 5
@acesfull99 I never said Jesus never existed. I said he never existed according to the bible. The information in the bible is at great conflict with actual known information about history. You mean to tell me that the people who went to the tomb and saw Jesus all recall completely different people there? That they all saw different things in the tomb? Including angels? Yet others do not report seeing things like angels in the tomb? Think.... angels would be a pretty significant thing....
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 4
@acesfull99 You have yet to establish Jesus even existed especially if you look at the historical information. You have yet to have an accurate description of the resurrection... I mean if you read the 4 gospels they do not agree on the majority of who was a witness, what was in the tomb etc etc.... And you expect me to believe the actions I have shown you are moral, just, loving and without sin? How can you expect me to believe any of this if you actually think about it for a second critically.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 5
@acesfull99 To me talking down to someone in such a way. Belittling them, calling them a dog, forcing them to beg when you know you have the power to help them is a sin. I mean how could someone treat another person this way, when they can easily help them...... This is the man you look up to for your moral guidance? That you think these traits prove he is God? Really think about what you are trying to pass off. Perhaps this Jesus guy is leading you away from Brahma of the Hindu tradition....
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 4
@acesfull99 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." "it is not meet to take the children's bread, and cast it to dogs." Basically he says I cannot help you because you are not one of my own. Hes looking down on this helpless woman because she is not of Israel but Canaan. In the end her begging wins him over but does this actually seem like the actions of someone who loves all of mankind? Why talk down to her? Why not just help this poor woman in the first place?
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 4
@acesfull99 You have no actual proof outside a shoddy account in the bible in which the witnesses cannot even agree upon the facts as proof Christ actually rose from the dead. How did he beat sin? He promoted slavery, he was sexist, racist and very much so below modern day westerners in moral ethics. Yet you say he beat sin? For instance in Matthew 15:26 after having a woman beg her to help her child he calls them dogs.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 5
@acesfull99 Do you see how your central arguments for your religion carry virtually no weight in light of other religions? I mean Sai Baba in India has LIVING eye witnesses that will attest to him performing all the exact same miracles that Christ was supposed to have done. So again we are at a stand still with which religion is true.... and considering as a species we have had a nasty habit across all cultures to create deities or deify aspects of nature... how do you see Christ as true?
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 4
@acesfull99 I would also like to ask how do you see the resurrection of Christ as being any different than any other religions stories? I mean the Hindu religion for instance predates Christianity by nearly 5000 years or more depending on the historical estimate. The Vedas from which Hinduism formed is very old. Been written down since before the Hebrew people could write..... Does the length of existence of the claims lend credit to the claim? If so Hinduism or Buddhism or most likely correct.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 4
@acesfull99 "And it was written down no more than 70 years after His death" That is for the Gospel of Mark I believe hope I am not getting that mixed up with Matthew. But anyways many of the other writings are after that. Some that are relatively close to the point in which the Church decided to compile writings and form the NT. Did you by chance look into the historical events listed in Matthew 2 and Luke 2?
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 5
@acesfull99 If you take into context the deification of Christ under Constantine after Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman Empire to suit the current aspects of the Roman traditions and concepts of gods.... you really gain perspective on the miraculous and all the hidden zodiac information within the Christian scriptures..... but I imagine you do not actually know this much about history or theology do you? If you do sorry for the offense.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 3
@acesfull99 And on the resurrection bit.... you do know that there are some major discrepancies between the gospels as to who the witnesses were, what was inside the tomb so forth..... So I mean the resurrection story in the bible itself is contradictory..... And if not having the ability to disprove certain events in a religion makes it valid and true..... ALL RELIGIONS ARE TRUE and you are going to hell regardless :) so the ability to disprove does not give validity to the claim. Think
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 3
@acesfull99 I would like you to prove that the biblical Christ even existed in light of the information that his birth was wrong. We need to establish the fellow even existed before we can more formerly tear the rest of his history apart. =D I also encourage you to actually look at third party neutral historian/historical information in your pursuit of the events I listed in question to get unbiased info on the subject.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 3
@acesfull99 How about I prove that Christ never existed according to the bible. Go read Matthew 2 and Luke 2 for the historical information. King Herod died 8 years prior to Cyrenius(Quirinius) was ever appointed governor(Legates) of Syria and that was 2 years prior to the first taxation or census held by Caesar Augustus. So seeing as how there is approx a 10 year gap neglecting that Matthew two has Herod killing all children under 2 in the area (presumably Jesus could have been this old)
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 3
Think about the vastness of the universe. I mean we are not even the size of a grain of sand compared to that. If we are the primary reason for all of this(how fucking egotistical could one person be) then why is our universe not scaled to suit our size? Why is it so grossly out of proportion to the intention of the universe? This would be the equivalent of creating our solar system for a single bacteria to live in. Actually its probably far past that. How illogical.
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 4
I mean think about it. You think the most basic state of all things is a consciousness that exists outside everything, yet it can interact with anything, that can just "will" things into existence without use of previous material. This in your mind is the most basic state of all of everything? That hardly seems plausible. Oh and then you make the leap to the portion where you know its the God of the bible.... how could you possibly do that if you had read the bible?
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 4
.....our universe began to expand? I mean this is one little thing I can think of off the top of my head. What evidence is there to suggest this is what actually happened. Probably none that we have, yet it is highly more plausibly that this singularity depleted its own energy source that drove it or some internal cause or reaction made it fail thus our universe was sprung into existence with the ability for celestial bodies to form. God is far less likely than either of those scenarios.....
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 2
I mean if you had actually read the BBT you would understand that everything is believed to have been contained in an infinitely dense singularity. Now imagine the force that would have to be exerted to contain so many elements and so much energy. Our TINY sun with all its power is but a mere fraction of the energy and matter that would have been there. Do you not think it is possible this energy condensed enough could have an internal reaction that cause the singularity to fail and thus....
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 2
What you have set up here is a false dichotomy. Because you cannot see any other explanation for the current state of our universe. Key word STATE. Yes our universe did have a beginning and the BBT is the most accurate representation of the evidence we see. However this does not mean there were no precursors or changes to the matter and energy that comprise our current universe. For instance you assume a cause has to be an external source... why? An agent from outside?
CtheWolfe 8 months ago 2
Your understanding of science is either shamefully poor, or you are being deliberately misleading for the sake of your argument.
Science is based on evidence, not belief, Stephen Hawking has eliminated the need for any "god" as a causality in any assertions he makes, and the universe, thus far, has been, extrapolated back to the rapid expansion of a singularity, some 13.7 B.Y. ago.
Any prior causality is an unknown. Feel free to wedge in your debunked and irrational superstitions if you wish!
Tobytrim 8 months ago
Only two options? "Either the universe caused itself, or a transcendental cosmic agent."
Gotta love binary thinking. Christians are good at it. Black/white. Hell/ heaven. Saved/lost. Complexity is the enemy of tyranny.
The third option not mentioned was "I don't know." That phrase is foreign to some. Doubt and uncertainty keeps us questioning.
In the face of unknowns, Human beings have been inserting superstition for centuries. It doesn't have a good track record.
38tyranny2 8 months ago
@38tyranny2 But seeing in shades of grey is haaaaard. I was raised Christian and I'm still in awe today of the fact that anyone who actually puts 100% faith in the Bible, must not have read the whole thing. If they did, there's no way they could put faith in 100% of the Bible, it condones slavery- even details how to do it correctly, it contradicts itself several times. Why would an all knowing God make the mistake that everything revolves around the Earth and not the Sun?
CarlosMensuckass 8 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
The love has been given, don't let it pass you, love is patient, it is waiting for you, God is waiting.
---
Juan 3:16 "Porque de tal manera amo Dios al mundo, que ha dado a su hijo unegito, para que todo aquel que en el cree, no se pierda mas tega vida eterna."
El amor ya es dado, no lo deje pasar, amor es paciente, te esta esperando, Dios te espera.
EternallyShikaku 9 months ago
i'm with gospelgirl...god is eternal .....
lunabirdie 9 months ago
"we're not sure how the universe was created, therefore god made it" appeal to ignorance, logical fallacy.
rememberthename33 9 months ago
@rememberthename33 exatly someone gets it.....like if there is proof of god anything besides in the bible because a book on its own cant proove anything unless it has the facts to back it up and if anyone actually has proof god exists show me
Blaze0777 9 months ago
False Dichtocomy! Cause does not equal God
speerdali 9 months ago
God has always existed! that's my answer.
gospelgirl1964 9 months ago
God is a good term to explain something that the explainer has no knowledge of or is unable to explain.
One thing that I would like explained is, Why is the Earth 6000 years old, but the holy book only 1400-1600 years old?
Talk about bad documentation!
ToadRoach 9 months ago
Nobody on earth has the answer to what started the universe. All the 'options' you propose are therefore nonsensical. And defaulting on a god, is the classic christian argument or 'god of gaps' argument, that basically conveniently places god in for whatever science can't explain, even though there's no evidence for god itself.
JoseWanKenobi 9 months ago
yes i agree with harry4health
if u beleive that everything must have a genesis and hence god created the universe, please, apply that same logic to the question of a deity's existence. what do u suppose created that piece of fiction called God?
mushroomzagain 9 months ago
@mushroomzagain okay then what created the big bang?
tube09sssss 9 months ago
Look all im gonna say in read Genesis in the bible thats the answer why cant people just accept it?
tube09sssss 9 months ago
Has the universe always existed? Yes and no. My understanding of time is that it is dependent on space, so you can't have time without space. However space as we know it came in to existence with the big bang.
The question is based on premises that may be not relevant. Once we hit that singularity point everything that we take for granted like what the rules that make up time and space are kind of go out the window.
I'll leave further speculation to the physicists.
Cheebzsta 9 months ago
@BigLundi - I didn't mention hell: non-issue. U still give nothing to change the heart, so people will desire to stop, or not start stealing, etc. U give no real reason to believe stealing is actually wrong, not just a societal majoritarian opinion as 'wrong'. Hear about gas stealers? Saw business trucks to steal gas, siphon cars, etc. Many do crime & never get caught. How can U say something is actually wrong beyond majoritarian society rule? Do U have a way to change hearts for a society?
harry4health 10 months ago
Comment removed
harry4health 10 months ago
superfrisbie - No. When we HAVE more than 2 options, it would be a false either/or, or false dichotomy. U have nothing for a third option, so we R back to 2 options. U say universe had a beginning & it's proven (I agree), then all see OBSERVE shows us all things that exist had a beginning with maker of it/them. Sorry, it makes more sense to think a Deity outside of time, space & mater created it than saying there was nothing & nothing produced time, space & matter.
harry4health 10 months ago
@harry4health Yet you agree that the deity had no creator? How is this any different?
aloric645 10 months ago
@aloric645 - Actually, the Big Bang is that time, space & matter came into existence at that point. Therefore, the Creator would have to be outside of what came into existence.
Atheists have nothing before time, space & matter existed.
It makes more sense to think a Creator was before, & is outside of what is created, than creation came from no thing or Divine Creator/Designer. ALL I see is makers create creations- art, cars, chairs, etc.
harry4health 10 months ago
@harry4health Actually, it makes more sense to believe that the big bang was an explosion of energy happened as science tells us that energy is the one thing that can not be created or destroyed. When you say that a magical sky being created us in his image it is logical to ask whos image was he created in.
aloric645 10 months ago
@aloric645 - Ah, so science has proven energy is eternal- before Big Bang?Outside of time/space/matter? CANNOT be God as user of energy? Absolutely no pantheistic Energy-as-God? One atheist said in discussion "there was something before the BB, we simply have no proper way of describing it.". The Indescribable Something? Atheists switch from eternal universe to eternal energy. I don't see the iea as solid & how do we know incontrovertibly that energy is eternal?
harry4health 9 months ago
@aloric645 - No, it isn't logical to ask in whose image God was made. If God exists & created time/space/matter then Deity has to be outside of it. Deity- maybe transcendent or imminent? SOMETHING or SOMEONE has to be eternal. U like to place energy on the throne of eternal. IT is the self-existent One? Please prove that. U fill in the blank with impersonal Energy as Eternal. Most say God is the source of energy & is the Self-Existent One. I don't find Energy as the sure reason to discount God
harry4health 9 months ago
@harry4health It is quite logical. If you argue that we had an an intelligent designer, then he must have one too.
aloric645 9 months ago
@aloric645 - No, he does not HAVE to have a Designer. UR assuming U know the NATURE of the Deity that exists. We would then have an infinite regress of Designer Gods with no beginning. That doesn't make sense. Eternal line of Designer Gods or eternal universe- it still comes down to where did the first one come from & how did it/he/they come into existence. IF God is outside of time/space/matter & Self-existent, then that makes the MOST sense, at least.
harry4health 9 months ago
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harry4health 10 months ago
No, the universe didn't always exist, it's been proven. Saything that there are only two options: it created itself or god created it, is a "false dichotomy" fallacy. Just because we can't think of a third (or fourth, fifth, so on...) possibility, doesn't mean there isn't one. I have no problem saying "I don't know" to this question, but i'm not buying into the god explination (or any explination at all) without objective convincing evidence. Who ever said we can know the answer to any question?
superfrisbie 10 months ago
your mind lacks options
8Zeitgeist 10 months ago
does that make me believe in a Biblical God ? No way Man !! 100k Sumerian Tablets tell entire story of mankind and they pre date the 2000 yr old Bible !
"The lost book of Enki" is the memoirs of God or what Man thought was his God and he tells the stories that are the same as in the bible ! except there about 1500 or more years older then the Bible./ Ancient man was confused as hell to what they witnessed and told the story they best they could Enk tells it like it happened
WELLGURU 10 months ago
We can go on debating about who made the Universe but after 20 years of going after spirits and EVP's one EVP hit me hard and it was from a man that lived in the 1800's that traveled town to twn., on horse back in Florida he was a preacher/minister of his church. I was sitting in his home talked to him his wife and I think some 30 yr old female I asked him Robert now that your on the other side is there really a God ? His reply was "God is all around you"
WELLGURU 10 months ago
i dont even understand why we are the ones debating that god DOESNT exist
your the idiot that believes in this shit
bring your proof
there are many models to choose from on the early universe
they
8Zeitgeist 10 months ago
but the first law of thermodynamics gives possbile direction
"The law expresses that energy can be transformed, i.e. changed from one form to another, but cannot be created nor destroyed. It is usually formulated by stating that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of heat supplied to the system, minus the amount of work performed by the system on its surroundings."
8Zeitgeist 10 months ago
The major flaw is you saying that we only have 2 choices. 2nd, if everything needs a cause, what caused god? Could the cause of the universe be the singularity become unstable causing all the matter contained within to expand outward in a bang? Is there evidence that things can spontaneously explode, yes there is. Do I need to jump to the conclusion that there must have been a god to make that happen, i sure dont. If god doesnt do anything now, what proof is there he ever did? bible isnt proof
Blueace12345 10 months ago
It was actually the bible that turned me off to christianity. My moral stance prevents me from devoting myself to a god that would instruct his followers to have a "kill everything that moves" attitude, specifically listing the elderly and infants as well as raping the women. This makes the biblical god a hypocrite. Not for me.
vegangoatman 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This was sent to me in January and I just now bothered to check it out...
When I look at the intricate functions of nature, I do not see how it could be purely accidental. But, I do not think that man has come anywhere near describing the creative force and I definitely do not think it should be personified in any way.
vegangoatman 10 months ago
This was sent to me in January and I just now bothered to check it out...
When I look at the intricate functions of nature, I do not see how it could be purely accidental. But, I do not think that man has come anywhere near describing the creative force and I definitely do not think it could be personified in any way.
vegangoatman 10 months ago
1:45... totally irrational thought process. Makes no sense whatsoever. Something has to exist in its form... in order to create its form? Oh dear.
Anyways... if the Universe was created in all its glory and wonders by an omnipotent, all powerful 'being'... who created it? Or did 'it' always exist? If so... why could the Universe not always have existed? And... can this all-powerful God create a box, which it cannot itself open? If so... it is not all powerful. If not... it is not all powerful.
hawaiiancanetoad 10 months ago
I belive that it has always excisted. Which is equal to that it caused itself.
Yes, it is a logical contradiction. Impossible questions require impossible answers.
The classical "Then, who created God answer?" also leads to a logical dead end, because the chain would have to go on forever.
But then again, God is without beginning and end. Alpha and Omega. Which also is a logical contradicton.
OmegaYeahns 10 months ago
All material things have a beginning and a end
Beulah502 10 months ago
Poor logic. There was a beginning to the universe as we know it, and the best explanation is still the big bang theory.
No supernatural "force" had anything to do with it.
AmosTheTalented 10 months ago
@AmosTheTalented
Well then LOGIC would say, "What caused the Big Bang?"
xchampx 10 months ago
@xchampx That is true. However, the answer to that question is still "We don't know" and it is a perfectly acceptable answer. The one thing science does not do is chastise or theraten when that answer is given. Available data still points to the big bang, and not supernatural voodoo.
AmosTheTalented 10 months ago