Actually what I think is the most important thing about a home safe is securing the safe so that it can't be removed easily. A lot of safes are delivered with a metal skid to make them easy to deliver, and a lot of people leave the skid on them which would allow some one to get a dolly under one and move it out of the house.
@richardoky Well said, any safe under 750lbs should be bolted down. And never ever keep the safe on the skids/pallet, that's just used to make it easy to move. you may as well put it on the curb with a free sign on it.
@cpovey1 Good qustion, battery's do leak and corrode from time to time. The good news is we've never seen one that's so bad it it runes the keypad. Just pull the battery, clean the connector that the battery snaps into, I put a dab of oil and then wipe off and that's it, just like new. Don't for get to put in a new battery.
@cpovey1 A good question! I have a keypad it works fantastic! I would say that when you see the keypad wearing you could change your number. My Cannon has a lifetime warranty for anything!! Read up on it I'm sure if a keypad wore out that would be covered too. and when the battery gets low it tells you in advance. Hope this helps! Good luck MP3
I thought about EMF possible being able to knock out the electrics, But if such a thing ever happened I could probably still get into it with several maintenance tools. If the electrical lock was completely destroyed by a thief, I could take the safe out and cut a section of the front door out with a plasma torch, install new electronic lock then weld the section back almost as good as new. The layers of drywall they use inside should protect everything from the heat.
I couldn't find the mythbuster's episode you mentioned but I have used plasma torches many times and the two layers of half inch drywall they use in a lot of safes is more then adequate, a plasma torch also blows a lot of air cooling as it cuts one of the benefits of a plasma torch is it doesn't warp sheet metal as you cut it.
I have use a thermal lance once and it would cut and burn any thing up. They are usually used to cut steal around 1 foot thick, Actually if I had to get into a safe I have I would use a cut off saw (saw that uses a thin friction wheel) would take a lot longer then a plasma torch but would be a clean cut and I could weld the panel I cut off back on and the safe would be good as new.
Give me a old dial. I'm looking for protection against the burglar. Not some FBI CIA attack. Unless your an tinfoil hat type the tried and true group 2 is just fine. If not a electronic lock ain't gonna help you anyway.
@7807edwards Odd as it may sound we've found some customers have so much trouble opening their dial locks they avoid it by leaving them on day-lock or using the key lock dial instead of spinning the dial. Used properly, dials are fine but used like that, well why buy a safe at all. FBI & CIA attacks or not, digital locks are just easier for the "muggles" to use and the Tinfoil hats guys can change their combo ever day if they like. Me I just can't see the numbers on the dial.
Mechanical goes wrong, Gravity helps nose into wheel pack, open.
S&G 8400, 8500, Grade 1 MP, 1m code differs, Delrin Wheels (Anti-X-ray) May as well give up on the Manipulation, Service every 12 months, Last a lifetime.
@KitCloudkickerUK Nice thought but that's only if you have the combo, and you can dial it, and you can get the lock VU and know it, and your able to bypass the detent. Heck, just drill it and put in an Elock. Check out "Robotic Safe Cracker" on youtube and see why most government agencies are dumping the S&G 8400 and 8500's and replacing them with grade 1 E-locks
@DeanSafe Thanks for the Video suggestion, Very informative, Given time i'm sure it would crack the 8500,Nice little tool, I've seen some early variant of this.
Chances are a Burglar won't have the code nor come across a broken safe lock or for that matter know which position the lock is facing therefore hindering his progress in both designs,I still say the 8400 is the best option for reliability.
How do these E-locks fair up to probe attacks? and I think the US gov uses x-09's, Above normal.
@KitCloudkickerUK I've got two auto dialers that only do group 2 locks. The 8400 & 8500 is still dependable, but most customers have problems using a group 2 dial much less a high sec. lock, so they opt for a high sec. digital. Your right the US gov uses a lot of X09's but a they are no more dependable than the rest. "Probe attack" is not a term we're familiar with, but if it's drilling the lock for a look-see then we're after the solenoid.
@DeanSafe Yes, The probe attack is an attack on the solenoid through the door to the lock.
If Customers find it preferable to use Electronic locks I think it be best business practice to inform them of all the pros and cons and allow them to make an informed decision, You handled this discussion professionally, courteously and gentlemanly, Those are rare qualities in business today and thank You.
One last Question, Would You consider shipping any items overseas to the UK?
@DeanSafe do you realize how easy it is to short out and open a digital safe? we have done it on tons of jobs. and most digital safes have "safety" hidden emergency keys, which they put in the most junk, piece of shit lock you can think of. which are easy to pick. yes i know im still learning, but we have more trouble cracking a dial safe than a digital safe, so i can't see how a digital is better. yes it's faster to open with a code, but who cares.
@tennesseecoin Nothing, Tests show EMP is not very effective on Grade one locks, and when the Lock is installed inside a safe it's so much the better. Thank you for taking the time to ask, John
@DeanSafe Are you saying that after (and if/when) an EMP event, that the electronic lock will still work? I believe that it very well might not (I maintained and EMP (supposedly) proof communications room when I was in the USAF) and if it fails to work, you will need to break into it. I am voting on an older proven style, the dial pad for my safe, thank you.
@60jscott Yes that's what I'm saying, remember the safe lock has no antenna, is not plugged in to the grid (or anything else), and is protected in a steel box. I once felt this way about cars with a auto trans & power windows, I've changed. Even if you believe this with your whole heart until that day, Your still dramatically lowering you safes security and convenience with a dial vs a "grade 1" digital Lock. Your view is respected. P.S. I'm X USAF too, Best thing I ever did.
What happens when the batteries go dead , and what happens when the barratries crowed and render the lock useless . Batteries have know to go bad and mess up the contact and fri the electrical contacts . I would rater take a extra 30 seconds to spin dial , knowing that it will always open and not have to run for batteries in an emergency. Or if the barriers fail then have too have the electrical contacts replaced and not being able to get into my safe when I need too!
@mattdeal09 Good qustion, battery's do leak and corrode from time to time. The good news is we've never seen one that's so bad it it runes the keypad. Just pull the battery, clean the connector that the battery snaps into, I put a dab of oil and then wipe off and that's it, just like new.
I appreciate all your videos. I'm in the market for a safe, and it's kind of overwhelming. I have narrowed it down between a 30 gun Liberty with a mechanical lock, and a 45 gun Cannon with an electronic lock. I was leaning towards the mechanical for long term reliability. I have heard that the electronic locks malfunction much more frequently, and I will be faced with repair bills down the road. Mechanical locks don't require maintenance and are less likely to break. Do you agree?
@quinnjim Good question Twenty years ago I would have agreed but now it's just the opposite, digital locks have won me and many rated safe Manufacturers over. Digital locks require no maintenance other than a new battery every 2 to 6 years, whereas a mechanical requires yearly service if used in a commercial environment (home safes don't get opened enough for owners to worry about it)
P.S. I'm only talking about "U.L. tested digital & mechanical locks not the cheap unrated locks".
@quinnjim You were looking at two very good gun safe co's (Cannon and Liberty) both have U.L. ratings, both stand behind their safe. I hope I was able to help.
@mathlover101hotmail With a digital it's a no-brainer and you can do it yourself without screwing it up. On the other hand all Locksmiths will tell you they know how to change a mechanical lock, a few do it right, a few screw it up, and many just get by long enough to not need to warranty their labor when it go's south. Some digitals in our showrooms we change 20+ times a day for years just to show customers how its done. with digitals we lost some income but gained happier customers
Hey Dean, Love the video, quick question, What happens if you get a battery that leaks or corrodes the inside of the keypad? Is is easy to change or how would that work, just saying because over time I have had random things stop working from a faulty battery leaking and corroding wires or things like that.
@RETICS1 Good Question, battery's do leak and corrode from time to time. The good news is we've never seen one that's so bad it it runes the keypad. Just pull the battery, clean the connector that the battery snaps into, I put a dab of oil and then wipe off and that's it, just like new.
thanks,
John D.
P.S. Loved the doberman and the long board video, what a great dog.
I switched about 4 years ago and I will never go back to a mechanical. So far I haven't needed to change my battery yet. I have been able to see the numbers on my electronic lock a lot easier than when I had a mechanical lock on my safe. I like how it locks when I shut the door and I don't have to remember to spin the dial. I also like how I can change the combo when I want.
@cmcchucklesyt I got my first Digital lock safe about 15 years ago, now the safes in all my stores are are Digital and I'll never go back to a Dial. Only downside is my wife can open the safes on her own. (LOL) Thanks for watching,
@gchenarides Good question, there several manufactures of " High Security grade 1" Digital safe locks and all can be retrofitted on to most all safes that have a "group 2" dial lock. Some are better than others and we do recommend them on a case by case basis. That said, all Grade 1 Digitals are better than all Digital locks not rated as a Grade one (most often found on cheep safes, the types sold in box stores).
i personally belief that the dial lock is perfect if you know your safe well: i can open my safe in under 4 seconds
dachoppagunnas 13 hours ago
Actually what I think is the most important thing about a home safe is securing the safe so that it can't be removed easily. A lot of safes are delivered with a metal skid to make them easy to deliver, and a lot of people leave the skid on them which would allow some one to get a dolly under one and move it out of the house.
richardoky 4 days ago
@richardoky Well said, any safe under 750lbs should be bolted down. And never ever keep the safe on the skids/pallet, that's just used to make it easy to move. you may as well put it on the curb with a free sign on it.
Thank you,
John
DeanSafe 3 days ago
Comment removed
backyardsounds 3 weeks ago
That was a well done and very informative video. Thanks!
Cornelisons 3 weeks ago
My S&G electronic lock has been working flawless for 3yrs thus far.....normally use it one to three times daily.
fike301 1 month ago
My worry is what happens when the batteries corrode-and they all will with time. Seriously, I'm asking-I want to know.
cpovey1 1 month ago
@cpovey1 Good qustion, battery's do leak and corrode from time to time. The good news is we've never seen one that's so bad it it runes the keypad. Just pull the battery, clean the connector that the battery snaps into, I put a dab of oil and then wipe off and that's it, just like new. Don't for get to put in a new battery.
thanks,
John
DeanSafe 1 month ago
@cpovey1 A good question! I have a keypad it works fantastic! I would say that when you see the keypad wearing you could change your number. My Cannon has a lifetime warranty for anything!! Read up on it I'm sure if a keypad wore out that would be covered too. and when the battery gets low it tells you in advance. Hope this helps! Good luck MP3
lp1guy 5 days ago
I thought about EMF possible being able to knock out the electrics, But if such a thing ever happened I could probably still get into it with several maintenance tools. If the electrical lock was completely destroyed by a thief, I could take the safe out and cut a section of the front door out with a plasma torch, install new electronic lock then weld the section back almost as good as new. The layers of drywall they use inside should protect everything from the heat.
richardoky 1 month ago
Nice ide, but the plasma torch thing will fry everything inside. They did this on Mythbusters and everything inside was crispy.
cpovey1 5 days ago
@cpovey1
I couldn't find the mythbuster's episode you mentioned but I have used plasma torches many times and the two layers of half inch drywall they use in a lot of safes is more then adequate, a plasma torch also blows a lot of air cooling as it cuts one of the benefits of a plasma torch is it doesn't warp sheet metal as you cut it.
richardoky 4 days ago
I think I screwed up. They used some kind of thermal lance, not a plasma cutter. My bad.
cpovey1 4 days ago
@cpovey1
I have use a thermal lance once and it would cut and burn any thing up. They are usually used to cut steal around 1 foot thick, Actually if I had to get into a safe I have I would use a cut off saw (saw that uses a thin friction wheel) would take a lot longer then a plasma torch but would be a clean cut and I could weld the panel I cut off back on and the safe would be good as new.
richardoky 4 days ago
hellow! lol
octapotamus 1 month ago
Give me a old dial. I'm looking for protection against the burglar. Not some FBI CIA attack. Unless your an tinfoil hat type the tried and true group 2 is just fine. If not a electronic lock ain't gonna help you anyway.
7807edwards 2 months ago
@7807edwards Odd as it may sound we've found some customers have so much trouble opening their dial locks they avoid it by leaving them on day-lock or using the key lock dial instead of spinning the dial. Used properly, dials are fine but used like that, well why buy a safe at all. FBI & CIA attacks or not, digital locks are just easier for the "muggles" to use and the Tinfoil hats guys can change their combo ever day if they like. Me I just can't see the numbers on the dial.
DeanSafe 2 months ago
OK then, Electronics go wrong, Locked out.
Mechanical goes wrong, Gravity helps nose into wheel pack, open.
S&G 8400, 8500, Grade 1 MP, 1m code differs, Delrin Wheels (Anti-X-ray) May as well give up on the Manipulation, Service every 12 months, Last a lifetime.
KitCloudkickerUK 2 months ago
@KitCloudkickerUK Nice thought but that's only if you have the combo, and you can dial it, and you can get the lock VU and know it, and your able to bypass the detent. Heck, just drill it and put in an Elock. Check out "Robotic Safe Cracker" on youtube and see why most government agencies are dumping the S&G 8400 and 8500's and replacing them with grade 1 E-locks
DeanSafe 2 months ago
@DeanSafe Thanks for the Video suggestion, Very informative, Given time i'm sure it would crack the 8500,Nice little tool, I've seen some early variant of this.
Chances are a Burglar won't have the code nor come across a broken safe lock or for that matter know which position the lock is facing therefore hindering his progress in both designs,I still say the 8400 is the best option for reliability.
How do these E-locks fair up to probe attacks? and I think the US gov uses x-09's, Above normal.
KitCloudkickerUK 2 months ago
@KitCloudkickerUK I've got two auto dialers that only do group 2 locks. The 8400 & 8500 is still dependable, but most customers have problems using a group 2 dial much less a high sec. lock, so they opt for a high sec. digital. Your right the US gov uses a lot of X09's but a they are no more dependable than the rest. "Probe attack" is not a term we're familiar with, but if it's drilling the lock for a look-see then we're after the solenoid.
thanks,
John
DeanSafe 2 months ago
@DeanSafe Yes, The probe attack is an attack on the solenoid through the door to the lock.
If Customers find it preferable to use Electronic locks I think it be best business practice to inform them of all the pros and cons and allow them to make an informed decision, You handled this discussion professionally, courteously and gentlemanly, Those are rare qualities in business today and thank You.
One last Question, Would You consider shipping any items overseas to the UK?
KitCloudkickerUK 2 months ago
digital safes are junk, i don't care what this idiot says. coming from an apprentice locksmith (working with a 37 year vet locksmith)
Oxidized181 2 months ago
@Oxidized181 Better send your 37 year vet locksmith to safe school, coming from a 41 year Veteran Safe Manufacture, Designer, and Expert Witness
DeanSafe 2 months ago
@DeanSafe do you realize how easy it is to short out and open a digital safe? we have done it on tons of jobs. and most digital safes have "safety" hidden emergency keys, which they put in the most junk, piece of shit lock you can think of. which are easy to pick. yes i know im still learning, but we have more trouble cracking a dial safe than a digital safe, so i can't see how a digital is better. yes it's faster to open with a code, but who cares.
Oxidized181 2 months ago
What if somebody breaks the digital code pad off? How would you open it then?
Gr33nsPoint56 2 months ago
@Gr33nsPoint56 You do the same thing that you would do if you had a dial and it got knocked off. Drill It.
DeanSafe 2 months ago
What do you do if there is a EMP?
tennesseecoin 3 months ago
@tennesseecoin Nothing, Tests show EMP is not very effective on Grade one locks, and when the Lock is installed inside a safe it's so much the better. Thank you for taking the time to ask, John
DeanSafe 3 months ago
@DeanSafe Are you saying that after (and if/when) an EMP event, that the electronic lock will still work? I believe that it very well might not (I maintained and EMP (supposedly) proof communications room when I was in the USAF) and if it fails to work, you will need to break into it. I am voting on an older proven style, the dial pad for my safe, thank you.
60jscott 2 months ago
@60jscott Yes that's what I'm saying, remember the safe lock has no antenna, is not plugged in to the grid (or anything else), and is protected in a steel box. I once felt this way about cars with a auto trans & power windows, I've changed. Even if you believe this with your whole heart until that day, Your still dramatically lowering you safes security and convenience with a dial vs a "grade 1" digital Lock. Your view is respected. P.S. I'm X USAF too, Best thing I ever did.
John
DeanSafe 2 months ago
What happens when the batteries go dead , and what happens when the barratries crowed and render the lock useless . Batteries have know to go bad and mess up the contact and fri the electrical contacts . I would rater take a extra 30 seconds to spin dial , knowing that it will always open and not have to run for batteries in an emergency. Or if the barriers fail then have too have the electrical contacts replaced and not being able to get into my safe when I need too!
mattdeal09 6 months ago
@mattdeal09 Good qustion, battery's do leak and corrode from time to time. The good news is we've never seen one that's so bad it it runes the keypad. Just pull the battery, clean the connector that the battery snaps into, I put a dab of oil and then wipe off and that's it, just like new.
thanks,
John
DeanSafe 6 months ago
I appreciate all your videos. I'm in the market for a safe, and it's kind of overwhelming. I have narrowed it down between a 30 gun Liberty with a mechanical lock, and a 45 gun Cannon with an electronic lock. I was leaning towards the mechanical for long term reliability. I have heard that the electronic locks malfunction much more frequently, and I will be faced with repair bills down the road. Mechanical locks don't require maintenance and are less likely to break. Do you agree?
quinnjim 9 months ago
@quinnjim Good question Twenty years ago I would have agreed but now it's just the opposite, digital locks have won me and many rated safe Manufacturers over. Digital locks require no maintenance other than a new battery every 2 to 6 years, whereas a mechanical requires yearly service if used in a commercial environment (home safes don't get opened enough for owners to worry about it)
P.S. I'm only talking about "U.L. tested digital & mechanical locks not the cheap unrated locks".
thanks
J
DeanSafe 9 months ago
@quinnjim You were looking at two very good gun safe co's (Cannon and Liberty) both have U.L. ratings, both stand behind their safe. I hope I was able to help.
John
DeanSafe 8 months ago
But you need to change combination often and they are easier to malfunction
mathlover101hotmail 9 months ago
@mathlover101hotmail With a digital it's a no-brainer and you can do it yourself without screwing it up. On the other hand all Locksmiths will tell you they know how to change a mechanical lock, a few do it right, a few screw it up, and many just get by long enough to not need to warranty their labor when it go's south. Some digitals in our showrooms we change 20+ times a day for years just to show customers how its done. with digitals we lost some income but gained happier customers
DeanSafe 9 months ago
Hey Dean, Love the video, quick question, What happens if you get a battery that leaks or corrodes the inside of the keypad? Is is easy to change or how would that work, just saying because over time I have had random things stop working from a faulty battery leaking and corroding wires or things like that.
RETICS1 11 months ago
@RETICS1 Good Question, battery's do leak and corrode from time to time. The good news is we've never seen one that's so bad it it runes the keypad. Just pull the battery, clean the connector that the battery snaps into, I put a dab of oil and then wipe off and that's it, just like new.
thanks,
John D.
P.S. Loved the doberman and the long board video, what a great dog.
DeanSafe 11 months ago
Id do her :P
jwka2001 11 months ago
I switched about 4 years ago and I will never go back to a mechanical. So far I haven't needed to change my battery yet. I have been able to see the numbers on my electronic lock a lot easier than when I had a mechanical lock on my safe. I like how it locks when I shut the door and I don't have to remember to spin the dial. I also like how I can change the combo when I want.
cmcchucklesyt 1 year ago
@cmcchucklesyt I got my first Digital lock safe about 15 years ago, now the safes in all my stores are are Digital and I'll never go back to a Dial. Only downside is my wife can open the safes on her own. (LOL) Thanks for watching,
John
DeanSafe 1 year ago
Do you have other electronic locks or are they all the same?
gchenarides 1 year ago
@gchenarides Good question, there several manufactures of " High Security grade 1" Digital safe locks and all can be retrofitted on to most all safes that have a "group 2" dial lock. Some are better than others and we do recommend them on a case by case basis. That said, all Grade 1 Digitals are better than all Digital locks not rated as a Grade one (most often found on cheep safes, the types sold in box stores).
DeanSafe 1 year ago