"MARK THEM WHICH CAUSE DIVISIONS AND OFFENCES CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE WHICH YE HAVE LEARNED AND AVOID THEM." ROMANS 16:17. I AM AVOIDING THEM THAT PREACH JESUS NAME, THE TRINITY IS TRUE, 1 JOHN 5:7, MATTHEW 28:19, READ THEM AND THEN TELL ME. READ THE WORD AGAIN
Jesus said I am. In Judaism , I am is a name of God. I am in Hebrew means self existing. Who did Adam, Enoch, Moses, and Jacob have contact with? It was a human form. Jesus did not change roles because I am always exists. He was not created. It is who we will see on the Throne, but God is more than what you see. Jesus defined God in Matthew 28:19 in the name of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Yes, God may have one name, but that does not change how Jesus defined God.
The NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is Yeshua. Therefore you are to be baptized into that name for the REMMISION of sins. Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12, Act 22:16, Romans 6:3-6. The Fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily Col 2:9-13. He is The Great God manifest in the flesh. Praise His Name, it has the Power.
why is it that you ministers preach that you are suppose to do everything in the name of jesus but when it comes time to baptize people you guys do it in the name of jesus christ? if the name of jesus christ is just a title ? just sayin..
I'm so grateful for the shed blood of JESUS that washes, covers, and gives life. I am so thankful for the saving name of JESUS, for he suffered ridicule, torture, died and then rose just for me. I am thankful for being given the opportunity to serve the one,true living God, beside him there is no other for He knows not any. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!!!!
Did you know, that the name "Jesus" which is commonly known in Christianity today, actually did not exist until about 500 years ago? The letter 'J' does not even exist in Hebrew, Latin or Greek. The Scriptures proclaim: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:10-12. - SO WHAT IS HIS NAME? - Read more at 1shepherd1flock dott webbs dott comm
So if we have problems then it's our fault...? What about the sovereignty of God and the fact that sometimes He chooses to not remove the thorn from our flesh? Why is someone being ugly mentioned in the list that Pastor Mangun reads? Is God supposed to fix that too? Is God doing plastic surgery now so we can have perfect looks?
It's sad that Word of Faith theology has infected UPC/ALJC churches in this last decade =(
Jesus is too awesome!! He is worthy of all worship, all praise and all glory!! When I think He actually knows me and loves me, I am overcome with joy. I do not deserve the love of someone on His level.
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,of those in heaven,and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ,to the glory of God the Father.
God, KING OF KINGS, LORD OF LORDS, PRINCE OF PEACE, ALPHA, OMEGA, FIRST AND THE LAST, SAVIOUR, REDEEMER, HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, FATHER, WORD (SON), HOLY SPIRIT, EVERLASTING FATHER, BLOOD, WATER, SPIRIT, TRUTH, WAY, LIGHT, RESURRECTION, SON, CHILD, HIGH PRIEST, LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN, LION OF JUDAH, LAMB OF GOD, ROOT AND OFFSPRING OF DAVID, LORD OF HOSTS, HEALER, FRIEND, BROTHER, MASTER, RABBI. Its all in the Name of JESUS (Saviour) CHRIST (The Anointed One) - The Saviour is the Anointed One!
thomla, I guess enough has been said on both sides. I am pretty much convinced in my faith and salvation. It appears the same is truth for you. I thought that you might have gleamed something this discussion? I said all that I want to say. I will leave the rest in the hands of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Well strafete, now that i have made the word known and have learned from u and how u think, i pray now that u can come to some conclusion from the scriptures we have blogged on.I do not deny TONGUES and BAPTISM but i do not place them on the CROSS.Thru the cross alone we are REDEEMED and FORGIVEN.Colossians1:14 We are JUSTIFIED once we TRULY REPENT.Luke:18 9-14
Romans 10:9 That if thou CONFESS or to admit, to acknowlegde with thy mouth THE LORD JESUS, let's stop here, he didn't say IN TONGUES and of course PROFESS and CONFESS is 2 different verbs as in Peter confessed in the Gospels then professed in Acts.
Acts 8:37 is a good example of Rom 10:9-10 the Eunuch DID NOT speak in tongues.
Read it again. Paul expands or explains his v. 9 statement in v. 10, which means one cannot legitimately confess true knowledge of Jesus w/o the Holy Spirit first confessing thru them witnessing their faith is valid. Please note that v. 9 confess is in the active voice while v. 10 it is writing in the passive voice, WHY????
Believer, the indicative mood, active voice, passive voice, middle voice DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES.I compared V9 and 10 to Acts 8 The Eunuch did not speak in tongues, he met the conditions by the word "IF" V37He confessed what was written in Romans therefore HE WAS SAVED.
U can TWIST IT, SLAP IT, FLIP IT ANYWAY U LIKE IT, it is a FACT ANYWAY U SLICE IT.
Not only is v. 9 written in the active, it is also in the subjunctive vs. v. 10 being in the indicative. Maybe that is what you base your salvation on, a possibility.
The Bible does not record the Eunuch was saved. The same can be said of Phillip at Samaria in Acts 8. The crowd gave heed and were baptized; however, none were filled until the apostle came and laid hands on them. It even says Simon Magnus believe and we know his devilish history. Head knowledge differs from heart knowledge.
This is why Jesus gave the following command in John 5:39, Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. This applies to both Jew and gentile.
No surprise u went to Nicodemus and Jesus when i mentioned BORN AGAIN since u believe that water there is baptism but that is PHYSICAL birtrh.That which is born of the FLESH is FLESH 1st birth and Spirit is 2nd birth.Even if water is baptism or physical birth, in V8 the SPIRIT is the 2nd birth not WATER.Acts1:5
cont.. Baptism comes now after when one is BORN AGAIN or HAVING A GOOD CONSCIENCE 1Peter3:21by the WORD that is PREACHED and so is helping the sick, feeding the poor, obedient to husband and wife, provide for your family and list goes on.
I guess it depends how one defines "Born Again." However, you define being born again it should agree w/ John 3:5, except a man be born of Water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
The Apostle Paul said in 1Corth 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel WHY? because PREACHING the WORD is what brings faith Romans10:17 Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God.Preaching the word is by which we are BORN AGAIN 1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, by the WORD of God.
Consider the words of Jesus spoke in Luk 11:13, If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the HOLY SPIRIT to them that ASK him? (a participle meaning to ask assidously)
Compare the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:4 to Christ' words to Nicodemus; let it sink in:
The WIND BLOWS where it WILLS, and thou HEAR the SOUND thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: SO IS EVERY ONE one that is BORN OF THE SPIRIT. -- John 3:8
Let me be clear ... to receive or to be filled with the Holy Ghost w/ evidence of speaking in tongues is the 'GIFT" (Gk. doria) of the Holy Ghost, but to receive one of the spiritual gifts such as tongues is the "GIFT" (charisma) of tongues. The two (2) gifts are different. The former is given to ALL BELIEVERS, while the latter may be given to SOME BELIEVERS.
Since u based the doctrine on historical account in Acts, then there are many who were healed, saved and risen from the dead without tongues or speaking tongues after, neither i never seen anyone commanded to speak in tongues.Well either gift u want use the Apsotle paul clearly state PROPHECY is greater than TONGUES.Tongues justify man saved before men but NOT before GOD as he only sees the heart
I do not base my doctrine on a single historical book only but on the entire Scriptures. The book of Acts is just the best gauge left by the Early Church to validate our faith experience.
Even Jesus said many will preach in His name, cast out devils in His name, and do many miracles just to hear Him profess, "I never knew you; Depart from me!" As you can see our salvation is not based on external secondary acts. It is based on an internal primary experience via the Spirit and water.
John states in his 1st. epistle 5:8, "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." Now, weare you required to shed blood? NO! It was Jesus - THE CROSS. It is the Water that identifies us with the cross, and it is tongues that ids us w/ the Spirit. These are our witnesses.
John goes on to say in v. 10 that a true believer in the Jesus has a witness in himself. Tongues is your witness or confession; also see Rm 10:10.
The Cross testify of Christ. The Spirit and the Water testify of our eternal life thru the Cross. Anyone who declares the Cross w/o the other witnesses professes salvation, which is INIQUITY (false, no rights, unauthorized, unrighteous).
David said, "Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous.. -- Psa 1:5-6 False believers will not stand in judgment.
@Strafete 1John 5:8 has many interpritation and would actually make sense but the SPIRIT, WATER and BLOOD is all speaking of JESUS, i agree.
In V10 u make my point again, BELIEF, believing NOT in JESUS, will make God a liar because HE sent the SON to bear RECORD or WITNESS of the FATHER.I am surprised u went hear since u believe JESUS is the FATHER.
@Strafete Now, water id's us with his burial and ressurection NOT BLOOD and if it does, it is still ALL SYMBOLIC.
Tongues, i agree, id's us with the SPIRIT and so is HEALING,PROPHECYING,MIRACLES,INTERPRITATION OF TONGUES, u made my point again, Christ will profess i never knew u and u would say they were SAVED,like i keepsaying GOD SEES THE HEART, NOT MAN.
I had to come back to this b/c it deserves my attention: your extra-biblical injection of tongues in the passage.
The apostles only record that new believers spoke in tongues after being filled w/ the Holy Ghost. That is the evidence of the Spirit. The apostles never recorded that new believers received the Holy ghost and began to heal, do miracles, or cast out devils as the Spirit of God gave utterance. Jesus knows the righteous, not the unrighteous - the iniquitous (false) workers.
My heart goes out for you b/c I sense your sincerity. But YOU MUST go beyond the limits that popular modern messages of salvation will take you. It is a matter of ETERNAL LIFE.
If you have nothing in common w/ the Early Church at least have the same testimony of salvation. Speaking in tongues is possibly, NOT THE GIFT OF TONGUES, the only true thing that we still have in common with that church.
I appreciate you conscern and i have gone beyond the limits of only hearing preachers, I have my B.A in theology plus my personal studying.
So what about the DUMP, they cannot speak! Those that r bed confined but can speak but not baptized! Where u put them? Those are SINCERE questions and your doctrine says they are LOST!!!!!
Does any limitation or handicap make one any lesser of greater sinner? Certainly, if God is able to recreate, he just as able to heal. I have seen the deaf-mute received the Holy Ghost!
I am not trying to be mean or to think GOD cannot heal, the fact remains that the Apostolic doctrine says they are LOST!!!
You can hold to what u believe, but Acts 10 shows a man saved before he was baptized and many others healed by their faith without baptism and no tongues attached.The Apostle Paul spoke no TONGUES at his conversion.This doctrine is refuted by scripture not me.
No, Acts 10 shows a man being filled w/ the Holy Ghost before baptism. U cannot forbid WATER. U must be born of the Water & of the Spirit. . This is salvation!
Strafete, the man that wrote 13 Epistles DID NOT speak in tongues at his conversion but he was FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, so is he not saved? Does'nt he has the SPIRIT although he did not speak in tongues?
Yes, the scripture records believers speaking in tongues as they were FILLED, but the bible DOES NOT TEACH A BELIEVER IS NOT SAVED OR HAVING NOT THE HG WITHOUT SPEAKING IN TONGUES.
We already establish that a man can speak in tongues and be lost, because Christ will say "i never knew u" that is why Paul says beleive in his HEART because that is where God JUSTIFIES US that is INVISIBLE and we can only JUSTIFY each other by confession by seeing and hearing, which would be understandable not TONGUES
Doing the will of GOD is speaking in tongues? Huh!!
Friend, Jesus did the will of God and i don't see him speaking tongues, but i see him healing, doing miracles, casting out devils, forgiving others, preaching.These are what help and edify the church, HOW DOES TONGUES HELP ANYONE which only unless it is INTERPRITATED.
That is the problem with the doctrine U HAVE TO ADD TO THE BIBLE FIT THE DOCTRINE.
Jesus had a witness! which ascended upon him like a dove and the voice of God spoke from heaven. You and I MUST HAVE a witness as well.
BTW - Paul did not receive Holy Ghost until 3 day after his encounter w/ the Lord while aboding at Ananias home in Acts 9. He told Ananias the Lord had sent him to receive his sight and to be filled w/ the Holy Ghost. And he was also baptized calling on the NAME OF JESUS!
Strafete, my service to others is my witness of Christ in me, not TONGUES and as a matter of fact if i had a choice between helping others and being baptized, i would rather help others.Friend, anyway u want to put it PAUL DID NOT SPEAK IN TONGUES NOT EVEN WHEN HE SAW CHRIST and he was already saved the moment he him and SUBMITTED TO THE CALL.
There is nothing that u can do externally that can validate your internal witness. Only the Holy Spirit can, and when the Spirit speak via ones mouth it witnesses your confession into salvation. That's an individual matter.
Concerning your service to others, Paul states in 1 Cor 13:3 & 6: though one bestow all their goods to feed [the poor], and give their body to be burned, and do it w/o love, it profits them nothing. LOVE REJOICES IN TRUTH NOT IN INIQUITY! (falsehood).
Speaking in tongues edifies the individual who speaks. It is also a sign given to the unbeliever at the point of believing, thereby, making one a true believer. 1 Cor 14:22-23
Why would anyone want to conduct service in tongues when believers are assembled together. That is the time to prophesy (preach) or teach. Otherwise, it would just call confusion and could easily get out of hand. So Paul offers very, very, very good advice in the passage.
I have been saying that ALL along Strafete, earlier in my comments about 1Corth 14.I did not say it does not edify oneself but no help to others or unbelievers UNLESS IT IS INTERPRITATED V5 So Paul says look for prophecy as a sign for THEM that BELIEVE and TONGUES is a SIGN for UNBELIEVERS who would be convinced if they hear GOD'S word in thier LANGUAGE.Apostolic got it BACKWARDS as who the sign is for.
thomla, you are not say what I say, as a matter of fact, you are adding and twisting Scripture yourself. For example; you said, "Tongues is a sign FOR unbelievers," but 1 Cor 14:22 states, ... tongues are for a sign, ... TO them that believe not. A sign to differs from a sign for. The former expresses a token while the latter an observance.
You also stated, "So Paul says look for prophecy as a sign..." Yet Paul, actually, states, But prophesying [SERVES] not for them that believe not, but FOR them which believe. U see preaching or teaching on spiritual matters SERVES the Church the Body of Christ.
The apostles only preached REPENTANCE & REMISSION OF SIN to unbelievers upon receiving tongues (sign, Gk. semeion - a token given to another). A sinner cannot grasp prophesying even if they profess to know Christ.
@Strafete I'm not 100% sure where you both stand on the spiritual gifts, but I have read some of your discussion.
It may help you to know that in the original greek Prophesy means to speak in front of people, in front of a crowd. It is the english language that has corrupted the meaning of the word to mean prediction.
In regards to Tongues as well. in the KJV version the tongues in corinth is expressed as Unknown Tongue. Whereas Tongues (plural) Paul is referring to the real gift.
@RenegadeMaster07 He who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto man but unto God .... 1 Cor 14:1. That is a non-debate. So that only leaves the subject of the gift of tongues. BTW - what does it mean to preach, teach, or exhort before an assembly or group of true believers? Prophesy!
@RenegadeMaster07 So in v2 (not v1 as u said) i think this is sayin that he is trying to speak to God, because certainly this "tongue"(singular) is unknown to man.
Then he says that they prophesies for the assembly. Then that he edifies himself with tongues, and prophesy edifies the church.
v5 to me seems to be that everyone is trying to speak in tongues, even those who do not have the gift. So Paul is saying how he wishes they all had the gift. Which tells us they did not.
@RenegadeMaster07 still in v5 he defines it as a secondary gift. That prophesy is more beneficial, and that if he were to speak in tongues it would be a pointless practice unless it gave some benefit to the church.
v9-11 is back to the singular, and states that the common rule in all languages is meaning. He is suggesting what they are doing has no meaning.
v12 He said to build up the church instead with spiritual gifts rather than for your own benefit.
@RenegadeMaster07 in v21 he quotes the Law regarding the use of tongues from the Lord's own words. Then states in v22 that tongues is for unbelievers rather than believers, and that is its purpose.
In v23 he says that anyone who comes into the church from the outside would think them mad, and that prophesy would be more beneficial.
So from what i can see is tongues is for the benefit of unbelievers, and only if it is interpreted to them.
@RenegadeMaster07 You lost me here. It appears you are mixing the two concepts together. Do not Paul state v.24, if all prophesy and an unbeliever comes in he is convince of all. He also states in v.22 that tongues are for a sign TO unbelievers. Note: he did not say, tongues are for a sign FOR unbelievers. There is a difference.
We cannot justify each other. You will stand before God alone the same as I. BTW - the word confession uses the passive voice (Gk. homologetai, not the active homogeo, which means to profess). It means the Holy Ghost is doing the action via the individual. That is the difference between what I have vs. what you have.
@Strafete If u do not only base your doctrine in Acts but the whole bible then where do u put those that were SAVED without tongues, HEALED without tongues, SOLD their possession and layed them at the Apostle's feet.
Saved w/o tongues? Tongues is the confirmation that one has received the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit witness of new birth in a true believer just as a child cries at birth shows the breath of new life.
We have to HUMBLY recognize AND ACCEPT that the WORK of Christ alone is able to save us, and if the work is ALREADY DONE, what else can we do to be saved but BELIEVE, which is not work but having FAITH.
Romans4:5 But to him that WORKETH NOT but BELIEVETH on him that JUSTIFIETH the ungodly his FAITH is counted for righteouseness.
Romans4:10 Abraham was Justified BEFORE circumcision or like BAPTISM, 2 person performing an act upon.
When did I ever say, Jesus did not pay it all. It is all faith! But faith that is unconfirmed is dead. Baptism means nothing if Christ had not come or died. We are justified by faith. My faith is validated by the following, Rom 4:
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Well if your doctrine is, a man is not saved until he is BAPTIZED and in Jesus name only, then Jesus DID NOT PAID IT ALL, because once we confess in repentance thru faith by the spirit, there is remission or forgiveness, not after baptism.Paul in Romans 6 illustrates what happens in baptism and the key words r "LIKE and LIKENESS" meaning resemblance or similiar, all SYMBOLIC not ACTUAL.Like "FIGURE"1Peter 3:21
God rose Jesus from the dead and was delivered or offered up for our offences or sins and was raised again for our JUSTIFICATION.Therefore we do not need to be baptized to be JUSTIFIED before GOD, Christ already DID IT when it says he was raised for our JUSTIFICATION, that is why we only need to have faith in him. Rom 5:1
MERCY is the result of GRACE, my point of Col.1:14 is even if a man don't speak in tongues or is baptized GOD IS THE ONE WHO SHOWS MERCY AND COMPASSION.
Acts3 shows God having mercy without baptism or tongues. Acts10 Cornelius saved before he was baptized.
That is why i said God decides not baptismal FORMULA or TONGUES.
The true CHURCH glories in tribulation also: knowing tribulations works patience; and patience, experience; and experience, hope: and hope makes not ashamed; because the LOVE of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given to us. -- Rom. 5:3-5
just wanted to share that even JESUS was baptized and HE is our EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW....besides, if it's not important to be baptized then why would it be in the bible in the 1st place?? you MUST be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS to receive salvation
@benitez128822 Yes he is an example to follow by being baptized but by him being baptized did not SAVE US but his DEATH ON TH CROSS SAVES US and our sins FORGIVEN IN HIS BLOOD.
COL.1:14 In whom we have REDEMPTION, through his blood, even the FORGIVENESS of sins.NOT BAPTISM, NOT TONGUES.
i need all the christain freinds and subs please thank you i feel we can reach people if we be a freind to them with all meekness and kindness i am trying to do something good on youtube there are so many atheists please help me fight thank you
If Apostolic is going to uphold a model or process by being baptized and has to be in Jesus name ONLY for one to be saved then they have a problem with God in ACTS10 and THE CROSS.
There is nothing or work a man can do to ADD TO WHAT GOD HAD ALREADY DONE TO REDEEM MAN.
If baptism is apart of God's redemption then the CROSS or the BLOOD is not enough.Rom5:1 4:5 10:9 Luke18:9-14
Protestant (evangelical) dominance and popularity over truth does not surprise me.
Jesus spoke of this as being one of the signs of the last days in Matt. 24:4-5 & 11-12, Let no man deceive you. For many will come in His name declaring that He is the Christ and shall deceive MANY.
And MANY false prophets shall come and deceive MANY. Because iniquity (professing Christ) shall increase, the love of MANY shall be made (Gk. pyscho) cold.
Everyone who has the Holy Ghost w/ the evidence of speaking in tongues and is baptized in water in Jesus' name SHALL BE SAVED.
Now, how does this add to Grace? Was it not Jesus who commanded men to be baptized? If any man commands not to baptize, as many do today, then his actions deduct from Grace, and it is also disobedience to God. You are drawing a conclusion on a position that has no middle.
@Strafete If anyone commands u don't have to be baptized is in ERROR and really have not seen anyone who says that BUT no where in scripture it says WITHOUT BAPTISM U R NOT SAVED.U will not find that.
Now, u ADD to grace with baptism and tongues John1:17 For the law came by Moses BUT grace and truth came by Jesus Christ NOT BAPTISM OR TONGUES BUT BY JESUS THRU THE CROSS ALONE.
Eph2:8 For by Grace r ye saved thru faith, NOT BAPTISM OR TONGUES, NO WORKS
If u say RESULT OF GRACE then i agree, because it is God thru the WORK of Christ brought grace to man NOT MAN WORKING TO ATTAIN GRACE or bringing GRACE to himself.
You continue to confuse Grace with Law. When writers in the NT speaks of works it pertains to the LAW, Levitical service, Aaronic priesthood, and sacrificial worship.
TONGUES AND BAPTISM IS NOT WORKS! This is not what the apostles discourages.
Tongues in greek is "glossa" a speech or utterance.Tongues is a GIFT 1Corth 12:28 of the spirit not to ATTAIN or GET the spirit, therefore, agreed, IT IS NOT WORKS but without the INTERPRITATION it is nothing and has no VALUE to the church or unbelievers but with prophecying unblievers can be saved because they understand.Salvation comes before tongues.
No, glossa is not mere speech or utterance. That is how misled scholars today often misinterpret the word. The correct meaning of the Greek word "glossa" is unintelligent utterances/language. It was how classical Greek and koine Greek scholars described barbaric "tongue" languages.
This is the knowledge that is kept hidden from the popular church in both Catholic and Protestant circles b/c they do not have an answer for tongues and too proud to seek God for true salvation.
thomla, you are only perpetuating the popular misinterpretation of this and many other passages concerning tongues. In 1 Cor 12:4-7, Paul states that there are many gifts, administrations, and operations given by one Spirit, Lord, and God. But in v. 7 he states, "But the MANIFESTATION of the Spirit is given to EACH MAN..."
Now, other that than Jesus' baptism the Spirit descended upon Him like a dove, the only other manifestation of the Spirit upon any baptized believer is speaking in tongues.
Strafete, yes , works was in the O.T but was not satisfactory until Christ work as the ultimate sacrifice was satisfactory."Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the whole world".
I agree! It also covers our faith in Christ, which covers baptism, speaking in tongues, and communion. It was the ultimate sacrifice both for the OT and NT saints.
I am not sure what version you read? But every version that I have ever read, whenever men are commanded to baptize, it is spoken as an imperative statement. And an imperative is a command to act or to obey.
We must be careful not to sit in God's seat.He alone sees the heart, so we cannot Judge if a man is saved or not if he is baptized in 1 name or 3, just as long he confesses JESUS CHRIST IS LORD as the EUNUCH did before Phillip baptized him.A man can be baptized speak in tongues and still be unsaved CAN U KNOW IT?Well that is why many will heal,do miracles and Jesus says DEPART FROM ME, uthought they were saved.
No one can, sit in God's seat. Neither can any judge b/c the Scripture does. The Bible says in Matt. 7, BEWARE of false prophets, which means to judge.
One may be able to cast out devils, prophesy, or do many wonderful works yet still be lost. However, it is impossible for one to be lost who has been baptized in Jesus name and filled w/ the Holy Ghost w/ the evidence of speaking in tongues. IMPOSSIBLE! That is true salvation. Anything else is professing Christ, which is iniquity.
Notice in Matt. 7:22 that Jesus DID NOT say, many will say unto me that day, Lord, Lord, have we not spoken in tongues in thy name? And in thy name been baptized (buried in water)?
That is b/c speaking in tongues and the baptism confess about the state IN the believer. Casting out devils, prophesying, and doing great works speaks of the acts of believers and professed believers UPON others. It is the STATE of righteusness that makes one a true a believer (SAVED), not any ACT(S).
@Strafete Well of course Jesus did not say "many shall speak in tongues" because PROPHECY is SUPERIOR TO TONGUES 1CORTH 14:4,5,19.The same as Acts2 they all spoke a different language V8 and how we hear every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born.This proves the Apostle in 1Corth14:22 Tongues is a sign for the UNSAVED not the SAVED neither does it profit to the saved or unsaved with the gift of INTERPERITATION.
It sounds like you are speaking in the mind of Christ. BTW - do not add or take away from: if tongues were t be included, He could have easily stated . But He didn't!
Strafete, well, honestly, i could have said u were speaking the mind of Christ but it is the understanding of the scriptures and IMPORTANTLY when we put them together as they don't CONTRADICT.Acts2 and 1Coth14 don't contradict and Paul was not saved yet in Acts2.I say that to say, i tied in 1Corth14 with what Christ said and showed why tongues was not used.
thomla, 1 Cor 14 is the absolute corroboration of Act 2. There is no contradiction when taken in proper context. Most scholars, who for 1700 yrs do not have the experience, create the problems in their approach to interpret or translate these spiritual subjects.
Regardless of the person's claim, if one does not have the Holy Ghost, they are just as BLIND and LOST as the worst sinner no matter the station in life. If our gospel is hidden; it is hidden to them that are lost!
Apostolic have to uphold baptism as apart of salvation WHY? because if not, then the debate of what name or names to use is pointless if baptism don't save u.
It is because baptism is God's salvific plan. Futhermore, SIN is remitted by a single baptism . Maybe you should also ask, why does God's salvation depend on repentance, conversion, or confession? It just does! Jesus commanded men to baptitze. (Matt. 28:19, Mk 16:15, Jn 3:5, Ac 2:38). It is salvation because of my faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Pet. 3:21)
Everyone who are truly baptized into Jesus Christ are baptized into His death. We are buried with Him by baptism into death, according to the Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:3-4). Now I am sure that has no bearing on you.
I would like to know where in scripture we are forgiven by baptism or by a single baptism we are forgiven.
1Peter 3:21 "LIKE FIGURE" not ACTUALLY or LITERALLY.
1Peter3:21 Baptism is the ANSWER or "REACTION TO" reaction to what? A good conscience which came when we heard the word and REPENTED and was FORGIVEN before BAPTISM
It only takes ONE baptism because of the CROSS. Maybe you should address your 2nd question to the Apostles b/c they baptized all new followers before or even after their receiving the Holy Ghost.
CONT... So in V18 he did not say upon u Peter i will build my church but upon THIS ROCK speaking of what was revealed and all the Apostles had that key in Acts and would not have been bold if it was not for the HG and all of us must have that key to be born again and to enter the kingdom.If the church was built on any Apostle it would be PAUL who laboured the most with 13 letters PETER only 2.
My understanding is Jesus, God Manifested in flesh 1 Tim:3v16 told Peter that upon this rock Meaning earth I will build my church" this church is a church that is lead by the spirit of God not lead by man, We are not a cult because Cults are lead by Man, but we are lead by the Holghost.. Matt 28: 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Ok, i gave u the greek for ROCK and Peter and their meaning.The NT was written in greek.I am not trying to intemmedate u but Rock in greek is PETRA means a MASSIVE ROCK.Peter is PETROS means small stone.Every church foudation is based on the CONFESSION THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.The church is a massive rock in the earth if u want to look at it that way.
We are not trinitys we believe in One God Deut 6:4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
We are Not a Cult a Cult is lead by Men we are Lead by Gods Spirit and we Obey the Word of God
Hebrews9:24 Jesus APPEARED in the PRESENCE of God for us.
There are so many more proven scripture and some Apostolics just walk past these scriptures as if they don't mean a thing.I know u r oneness, at least consider them.Bless
God manifested in the flesh 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
f Jesus is not God, then explain... 1. Why does Thomas call Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.) 2. Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8? 3. Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)? 4. Why is the phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4)
cont...used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh?
# Why does the apostle John say that Jesus was , "...calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18)?
# What did Jesus say that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God (John 8:58)
# How was it possible for Jesus to know all things (John 21:17)?
# Why was Jesus worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) when He says to worship God only (Matt. 4:10)? (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.)
# In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58.
The Bible clearly distinguishes God the Father from His Son. The Son was born in Bethlehem, but the eternal God does not know a beginning. The Son grew into maturity - physically, mentally, socially, and spiritually. He became tired, hungry, weary, sleepy - just as other men. Although He did not commit sin, He was tempted in all points as other men are tempted. He suffered from the trials in Jerusalem and died on the cross-just as the two thieves also died.
cont.. God does not grow, nor can He die. These facts alone clearly distinguish the Son from the Father. The Bible tells us that the man Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men (I Timothy 2:5). God is one, but a mediator serves more than one - He stood between God and mankind, effecting reconciliation. Only as a man could Jesus be our sacrifice, mediator, advocate, and high priest, acting on our behalf for our justification.
Jesus offered Himself as a spotless lamb to God. Having lived as a human being, He offered the blood from His own body as the basis for the forgiveness of our sins. God did not die on the cross, nor did a divine eternal person offer blood from a divine eternal body. As the Son of God Jesus offered His own human body and His own earthly blood to God. The distinction between God and His Son can also be seen in the events after the crucifixion.
God raised Jesus from the dead (Romans 10:9, Ephesians 1:20), gave Him all power in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18)made Him Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), and exalted His name to be above every name in heaven, on earth, and beneath the earth (Philippians 2:9). If the Son had been a co-equal person in the Godhead, this exaltation would not have been possible, for He would have had these positions and attributes from eternity.
It is evident, therefore, that the Son of God was not a second divine person in the Godhead.
Biblical facts reveal that Jesus lived as an authentic human being, that He did not merely assume the appearance of flesh (1). Therefore we should not be surprised that He prayed to God, seeking strength, guidance, and assurance. Moreover, we should not be surprised that Jesus had a will distinct from God (2), that He was truly human in spirit and soul, that He possessed a self-awareness of His humanity
We are not to suppose, however, that the human Jesus was not different from other people, for only He was begotten by the Holy Ghost. God was His immediate Father. He is rightfully called the "only begotten of the Father". His miraculous birth meant that His humanity was not tainted with the inherited sinful nature of the Fall, and through Him God could reveal Himself to us in redemptive love.
Jesus was both God and man. Although this union is sometimes referred to as God-man, this term may be misleading, for it may lead some people to think of Him as a demigod. On the other hand, it is equally incorrect to refer to Him as a anointed man. Although quantitatively God cannot be confined to a body, qualitatively he could reside in a body. Neither was Jesus a part-human, but he was man in the full sense. He was fully God and fully man.
He possessed both the nature of God and the nature of man. He was aware that He was He was God and that He was man. He could and did speak and act as a man, and he could and did speak and act as God. As a man, he did not know the day or hour when the Son would come in power and glory (Mark 13:22); as God he forgave sins. Both His humanity and deity, although fused into His one being, remained distinct within His one personality.
Did Jesus pray to Himself ? No, not when we understand that Jesus was both God and man. In His deity Jesus did not pray, for God does not need to pray to anyone. As a man, Jesus prayed to God, not to his humanity (7). He did not pray to Himself as humanity, but to the one true God, to the same God who dwelled in His humanity and who also inhabits the universe.
No further explanation is given, and none is needed. Does Jesus pray now since his exaltation ? The answer is no. He prayed in the days of His flesh (Hebrews 5:7). The work of the mediation was finished through His death on the cross at Calvary (Hebrews 9:14-15). There is no more sacrifice for sins, for once and for all time His blood was shed for the remission of sins (Hebrews 10:12). Unlike the Old Testament priests, he does not continually offer sacrifices for sins.
There is no more offering, but there remains remission of sins for those who repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Hebrews 10:18, Acts 2:38). His present role as intercessor consists not only of daily prayers but the application of the benefit of the cross to our lives (Romans 8:34; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:1-2).
Jesus said, "At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again I leave the world and go to the Father" (John 16:26-28). Jesus does not pray now, but as God He hears and answers prayers prayed in His name.
WOW, that's alot of knowledge, TO GOD BE THE GLORY, but 2 Timothy 3:7Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.I have nothing against u personally but the DOCTRINE.
First off with Baptism, i beleive in that whole heartedly but i do not use it as a yoke as the Jews used circumcision in acts for one to become saved.
@thomla7 well they actually did. it was the mark of god or to show you were a child of god. same as baptism. philippians 2:11-14 shows the connection between the two actions. hope that helps.god bless
In Phillipians, yes, it state work out your own salvation, "NOT FOR YOUR SALVATION or TO OBTAIN SALVATION.
V13 It is God who worketh in us, which is INVISIBLE TO MAN but when we workout our salvation it is VISIBLE TO MAN, that is why Paul states a man is not justified by WORKS because we don't see the heart and God can still reject him and we don't know it because of his UNBELIEF.
Mcl, all i am saying u cannot declare a man not saved because he is not baptized, that is not in scripture, because it is God who sees the heart.Yes, if man believes he must be baptized as it is made available to him by the preacher but BIBLICALLY, he was saved before baptism and it cannot add to his faith nor salvation which the work was all done by Christ on the cross, fully not part paid for baptism to be apart of the payment.
"MARK THEM WHICH CAUSE DIVISIONS AND OFFENCES CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE WHICH YE HAVE LEARNED AND AVOID THEM." ROMANS 16:17. I AM AVOIDING THEM THAT PREACH JESUS NAME, THE TRINITY IS TRUE, 1 JOHN 5:7, MATTHEW 28:19, READ THEM AND THEN TELL ME. READ THE WORD AGAIN
Doyleville1 3 days ago
Praise God! I can feel the Holy Ghost!!! Thank you for preaching TRUTH!!!
mamiekaoticharts 4 months ago
lololololol what a joke.
ConstaaMonsta182 5 months ago
Wooooo, Yes Lord!!!
Col 3:17 Y todo lo que hacéis, sea de palabra o de hecho, HACEDLO TODO en el nombre del Señor Jesús, dando gracias a Dios Padre por medio de él.(G)
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, DO ALL in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
ALL IS IN HIM!
CHICOPACO2011 7 months ago
Wooooo, Yes Lord!!!
CHICOPACO2011 7 months ago
In the Name of Jesus Christ, don't u have a last name? Just sayin.
MontanaMayhem1 7 months ago
@MontanaMayhem1 Christ means "the annointed one."
boredood 1 month ago
@boredood *anointed.
boredood 1 month ago
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Jesus said I am. In Judaism , I am is a name of God. I am in Hebrew means self existing. Who did Adam, Enoch, Moses, and Jacob have contact with? It was a human form. Jesus did not change roles because I am always exists. He was not created. It is who we will see on the Throne, but God is more than what you see. Jesus defined God in Matthew 28:19 in the name of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Yes, God may have one name, but that does not change how Jesus defined God.
MrHellowwww1 7 months ago
The NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is Yeshua. Therefore you are to be baptized into that name for the REMMISION of sins. Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12, Act 22:16, Romans 6:3-6. The Fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily Col 2:9-13. He is The Great God manifest in the flesh. Praise His Name, it has the Power.
outtherein1976 10 months ago
why is it that you ministers preach that you are suppose to do everything in the name of jesus but when it comes time to baptize people you guys do it in the name of jesus christ? if the name of jesus christ is just a title ? just sayin..
MrMakeme3 1 year ago
POWER !!!!!!!!
jesuschristlovesus95 1 year ago
AMEN
kingdomseeker88 1 year ago
A wonderful sermon from an excellent real shepherd who really has a heart for Jesus and the people. I watch this from Germany.
TOM1GER 1 year ago
I'm so grateful for the shed blood of JESUS that washes, covers, and gives life. I am so thankful for the saving name of JESUS, for he suffered ridicule, torture, died and then rose just for me. I am thankful for being given the opportunity to serve the one,true living God, beside him there is no other for He knows not any. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!!!!
youbettergetrealwiti 1 year ago
Did you know, that the name "Jesus" which is commonly known in Christianity today, actually did not exist until about 500 years ago? The letter 'J' does not even exist in Hebrew, Latin or Greek. The Scriptures proclaim: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:10-12. - SO WHAT IS HIS NAME? - Read more at 1shepherd1flock dott webbs dott comm
SmallSojourner 1 year ago
amen the powers of Jesus!!!!
mactonight2006 1 year ago
So if we have problems then it's our fault...? What about the sovereignty of God and the fact that sometimes He chooses to not remove the thorn from our flesh? Why is someone being ugly mentioned in the list that Pastor Mangun reads? Is God supposed to fix that too? Is God doing plastic surgery now so we can have perfect looks?
It's sad that Word of Faith theology has infected UPC/ALJC churches in this last decade =(
jmspiers 1 year ago
Jesus is too awesome!! He is worthy of all worship, all praise and all glory!! When I think He actually knows me and loves me, I am overcome with joy. I do not deserve the love of someone on His level.
anyi322 1 year ago
shalom friend read acts 26:14-15 jesus is a latin greek name acts 4:12 exodus 20:7 jeremiah 10:25 zephaniah 3:9 shalom with love
BRENDAJASON1 1 year ago
PREACH!!!!
stacclady 1 year ago
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,of those in heaven,and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ,to the glory of God the Father.
blownhotrod22 1 year ago
And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
blownhotrod22 1 year ago
God, KING OF KINGS, LORD OF LORDS, PRINCE OF PEACE, ALPHA, OMEGA, FIRST AND THE LAST, SAVIOUR, REDEEMER, HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, FATHER, WORD (SON), HOLY SPIRIT, EVERLASTING FATHER, BLOOD, WATER, SPIRIT, TRUTH, WAY, LIGHT, RESURRECTION, SON, CHILD, HIGH PRIEST, LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN, LION OF JUDAH, LAMB OF GOD, ROOT AND OFFSPRING OF DAVID, LORD OF HOSTS, HEALER, FRIEND, BROTHER, MASTER, RABBI. Its all in the Name of JESUS (Saviour) CHRIST (The Anointed One) - The Saviour is the Anointed One!
WarfareSpiritForGod 1 year ago
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klankcybangy 1 year ago
thomla, I guess enough has been said on both sides. I am pretty much convinced in my faith and salvation. It appears the same is truth for you. I thought that you might have gleamed something this discussion? I said all that I want to say. I will leave the rest in the hands of the Lord Jesus Christ.
God bless
Strafete 1 year ago
Well strafete, now that i have made the word known and have learned from u and how u think, i pray now that u can come to some conclusion from the scriptures we have blogged on.I do not deny TONGUES and BAPTISM but i do not place them on the CROSS.Thru the cross alone we are REDEEMED and FORGIVEN.Colossians1:14 We are JUSTIFIED once we TRULY REPENT.Luke:18 9-14
thomla7 1 year ago
Romans 10:9 That if thou CONFESS or to admit, to acknowlegde with thy mouth THE LORD JESUS, let's stop here, he didn't say IN TONGUES and of course PROFESS and CONFESS is 2 different verbs as in Peter confessed in the Gospels then professed in Acts.
Acts 8:37 is a good example of Rom 10:9-10 the Eunuch DID NOT speak in tongues.
thomla7 1 year ago
Read it again. Paul expands or explains his v. 9 statement in v. 10, which means one cannot legitimately confess true knowledge of Jesus w/o the Holy Spirit first confessing thru them witnessing their faith is valid. Please note that v. 9 confess is in the active voice while v. 10 it is writing in the passive voice, WHY????
Strafete 1 year ago
Believer, the indicative mood, active voice, passive voice, middle voice DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES.I compared V9 and 10 to Acts 8 The Eunuch did not speak in tongues, he met the conditions by the word "IF" V37He confessed what was written in Romans therefore HE WAS SAVED.
U can TWIST IT, SLAP IT, FLIP IT ANYWAY U LIKE IT, it is a FACT ANYWAY U SLICE IT.
thomla7 1 year ago
Not only is v. 9 written in the active, it is also in the subjunctive vs. v. 10 being in the indicative. Maybe that is what you base your salvation on, a possibility.
The Bible does not record the Eunuch was saved. The same can be said of Phillip at Samaria in Acts 8. The crowd gave heed and were baptized; however, none were filled until the apostle came and laid hands on them. It even says Simon Magnus believe and we know his devilish history. Head knowledge differs from heart knowledge.
Strafete 1 year ago
Let me make one thing clear: I have no doubt that the Ethiopean Eunuch was eventually saved.
Strafete 1 year ago
Thomla, you have the right to hold any opinion that your heart desires.
Strafete 2 years ago
This is why Jesus gave the following command in John 5:39, Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. This applies to both Jew and gentile.
Strafete 2 years ago
No surprise u went to Nicodemus and Jesus when i mentioned BORN AGAIN since u believe that water there is baptism but that is PHYSICAL birtrh.That which is born of the FLESH is FLESH 1st birth and Spirit is 2nd birth.Even if water is baptism or physical birth, in V8 the SPIRIT is the 2nd birth not WATER.Acts1:5
thomla7 2 years ago
cont.. Baptism comes now after when one is BORN AGAIN or HAVING A GOOD CONSCIENCE 1Peter3:21by the WORD that is PREACHED and so is helping the sick, feeding the poor, obedient to husband and wife, provide for your family and list goes on.
thomla7 2 years ago
I guess it depends how one defines "Born Again." However, you define being born again it should agree w/ John 3:5, except a man be born of Water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Strafete 2 years ago
The Apostle Paul said in 1Corth 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel WHY? because PREACHING the WORD is what brings faith Romans10:17 Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God.Preaching the word is by which we are BORN AGAIN 1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, by the WORD of God.
thomla7 2 years ago
This only means that he was not Paul the Baptist or baptizer (like John the Baptist, remember). But he was Paul the Apostle to the gentiles.
Strafete 2 years ago
I agree, Paul was a Apostle to the Gentiles but 1Corth 1:17 shows baptism is different from preaching as in Luke 24:47 and Matt 28:19
In Acts 2,Peter was preaching not baptizing so wher is the evidence of the one name baptism that was performed as in Acts 8:38 which has no formula.
thomla7 2 years ago
Consider the words of Jesus spoke in Luk 11:13, If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the HOLY SPIRIT to them that ASK him? (a participle meaning to ask assidously)
Seek Him with all your heart and soul and mind!
Strafete 2 years ago
I agree with Luke 11:13 and the Holy Spirit is a gift but the question is
If a person does not speak in tongues, are they saved and having not the Holy Ghost?
thomla7 2 years ago
Compare the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:4 to Christ' words to Nicodemus; let it sink in:
The WIND BLOWS where it WILLS, and thou HEAR the SOUND thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: SO IS EVERY ONE one that is BORN OF THE SPIRIT. -- John 3:8
Strafete 2 years ago
Let me be clear ... to receive or to be filled with the Holy Ghost w/ evidence of speaking in tongues is the 'GIFT" (Gk. doria) of the Holy Ghost, but to receive one of the spiritual gifts such as tongues is the "GIFT" (charisma) of tongues. The two (2) gifts are different. The former is given to ALL BELIEVERS, while the latter may be given to SOME BELIEVERS.
Strafete 2 years ago
I am not going to debate the greek on tongues though i brought it up, but i have 2yrs of greek and my greek bible has "glossa" and "glossais"
Anyway, scripture does not teach a person is not saved without tongues and does not have the spirit.
thomla7 2 years ago
Since u based the doctrine on historical account in Acts, then there are many who were healed, saved and risen from the dead without tongues or speaking tongues after, neither i never seen anyone commanded to speak in tongues.Well either gift u want use the Apsotle paul clearly state PROPHECY is greater than TONGUES.Tongues justify man saved before men but NOT before GOD as he only sees the heart
thomla7 2 years ago
I do not base my doctrine on a single historical book only but on the entire Scriptures. The book of Acts is just the best gauge left by the Early Church to validate our faith experience.
Even Jesus said many will preach in His name, cast out devils in His name, and do many miracles just to hear Him profess, "I never knew you; Depart from me!" As you can see our salvation is not based on external secondary acts. It is based on an internal primary experience via the Spirit and water.
Strafete 2 years ago
John states in his 1st. epistle 5:8, "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." Now, weare you required to shed blood? NO! It was Jesus - THE CROSS. It is the Water that identifies us with the cross, and it is tongues that ids us w/ the Spirit. These are our witnesses.
John goes on to say in v. 10 that a true believer in the Jesus has a witness in himself. Tongues is your witness or confession; also see Rm 10:10.
Strafete 2 years ago
The Cross testify of Christ. The Spirit and the Water testify of our eternal life thru the Cross. Anyone who declares the Cross w/o the other witnesses professes salvation, which is INIQUITY (false, no rights, unauthorized, unrighteous).
David said, "Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous.. -- Psa 1:5-6 False believers will not stand in judgment.
Strafete 2 years ago
@Strafete 1John 5:8 has many interpritation and would actually make sense but the SPIRIT, WATER and BLOOD is all speaking of JESUS, i agree.
In V10 u make my point again, BELIEF, believing NOT in JESUS, will make God a liar because HE sent the SON to bear RECORD or WITNESS of the FATHER.I am surprised u went hear since u believe JESUS is the FATHER.
thomla7 2 years ago
@Strafete Now, water id's us with his burial and ressurection NOT BLOOD and if it does, it is still ALL SYMBOLIC.
Tongues, i agree, id's us with the SPIRIT and so is HEALING,PROPHECYING,MIRACLES,INTERPRITATION OF TONGUES, u made my point again, Christ will profess i never knew u and u would say they were SAVED,like i keepsaying GOD SEES THE HEART, NOT MAN.
thomla7 2 years ago
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Strafete 2 years ago
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I had to come back to this b/c it deserves my attention: your extra-biblical injection of tongues in the passage.
The apostles only record that new believers spoke in tongues after being filled w/ the Holy Ghost. That is the evidence of the Spirit. The apostles never recorded that new believers received the Holy ghost and began to heal, do miracles, or cast out devils as the Spirit of God gave utterance. Jesus knows the righteous, not the unrighteous - the iniquitous (false) workers.
Strafete 1 year ago
My heart goes out for you b/c I sense your sincerity. But YOU MUST go beyond the limits that popular modern messages of salvation will take you. It is a matter of ETERNAL LIFE.
If you have nothing in common w/ the Early Church at least have the same testimony of salvation. Speaking in tongues is possibly, NOT THE GIFT OF TONGUES, the only true thing that we still have in common with that church.
Strafete 1 year ago
I appreciate you conscern and i have gone beyond the limits of only hearing preachers, I have my B.A in theology plus my personal studying.
So what about the DUMP, they cannot speak! Those that r bed confined but can speak but not baptized! Where u put them? Those are SINCERE questions and your doctrine says they are LOST!!!!!
thomla7 1 year ago
Does any limitation or handicap make one any lesser of greater sinner? Certainly, if God is able to recreate, he just as able to heal. I have seen the deaf-mute received the Holy Ghost!
Strafete 1 year ago
I am not trying to be mean or to think GOD cannot heal, the fact remains that the Apostolic doctrine says they are LOST!!!
You can hold to what u believe, but Acts 10 shows a man saved before he was baptized and many others healed by their faith without baptism and no tongues attached.The Apostle Paul spoke no TONGUES at his conversion.This doctrine is refuted by scripture not me.
thomla7 1 year ago
No, Acts 10 shows a man being filled w/ the Holy Ghost before baptism. U cannot forbid WATER. U must be born of the Water & of the Spirit. . This is salvation!
Strafete 1 year ago
Strafete, the man that wrote 13 Epistles DID NOT speak in tongues at his conversion but he was FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, so is he not saved? Does'nt he has the SPIRIT although he did not speak in tongues?
Yes, the scripture records believers speaking in tongues as they were FILLED, but the bible DOES NOT TEACH A BELIEVER IS NOT SAVED OR HAVING NOT THE HG WITHOUT SPEAKING IN TONGUES.
thomla7 1 year ago
@Strafete U have got to be kidding me!
Confession is tongues in Rom 10:10
We already establish that a man can speak in tongues and be lost, because Christ will say "i never knew u" that is why Paul says beleive in his HEART because that is where God JUSTIFIES US that is INVISIBLE and we can only JUSTIFY each other by confession by seeing and hearing, which would be understandable not TONGUES
thomla7 2 years ago
No, we did not establish that, maybe, that is your position. It is an extra-biblical conclusion to add tongues to Matt. 7:21!
Strafete 2 years ago
Doing the will of GOD is speaking in tongues? Huh!!
Friend, Jesus did the will of God and i don't see him speaking tongues, but i see him healing, doing miracles, casting out devils, forgiving others, preaching.These are what help and edify the church, HOW DOES TONGUES HELP ANYONE which only unless it is INTERPRITATED.
That is the problem with the doctrine U HAVE TO ADD TO THE BIBLE FIT THE DOCTRINE.
thomla7 1 year ago
Jesus had a witness! which ascended upon him like a dove and the voice of God spoke from heaven. You and I MUST HAVE a witness as well.
BTW - Paul did not receive Holy Ghost until 3 day after his encounter w/ the Lord while aboding at Ananias home in Acts 9. He told Ananias the Lord had sent him to receive his sight and to be filled w/ the Holy Ghost. And he was also baptized calling on the NAME OF JESUS!
Strafete 1 year ago
Strafete, my service to others is my witness of Christ in me, not TONGUES and as a matter of fact if i had a choice between helping others and being baptized, i would rather help others.Friend, anyway u want to put it PAUL DID NOT SPEAK IN TONGUES NOT EVEN WHEN HE SAW CHRIST and he was already saved the moment he him and SUBMITTED TO THE CALL.
thomla7 1 year ago
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Strafete 1 year ago
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There is nothing that u can do externally that can validate your internal witness. Only the Holy Spirit can, and when the Spirit speak via ones mouth it witnesses your confession into salvation. That's an individual matter.
Concerning your service to others, Paul states in 1 Cor 13:3 & 6: though one bestow all their goods to feed [the poor], and give their body to be burned, and do it w/o love, it profits them nothing. LOVE REJOICES IN TRUTH NOT IN INIQUITY! (falsehood).
Strafete 1 year ago
Speaking in tongues edifies the individual who speaks. It is also a sign given to the unbeliever at the point of believing, thereby, making one a true believer. 1 Cor 14:22-23
Why would anyone want to conduct service in tongues when believers are assembled together. That is the time to prophesy (preach) or teach. Otherwise, it would just call confusion and could easily get out of hand. So Paul offers very, very, very good advice in the passage.
Strafete 1 year ago
I have been saying that ALL along Strafete, earlier in my comments about 1Corth 14.I did not say it does not edify oneself but no help to others or unbelievers UNLESS IT IS INTERPRITATED V5 So Paul says look for prophecy as a sign for THEM that BELIEVE and TONGUES is a SIGN for UNBELIEVERS who would be convinced if they hear GOD'S word in thier LANGUAGE.Apostolic got it BACKWARDS as who the sign is for.
thomla7 1 year ago
thomla, you are not say what I say, as a matter of fact, you are adding and twisting Scripture yourself. For example; you said, "Tongues is a sign FOR unbelievers," but 1 Cor 14:22 states, ... tongues are for a sign, ... TO them that believe not. A sign to differs from a sign for. The former expresses a token while the latter an observance.
Strafete 1 year ago
You also stated, "So Paul says look for prophecy as a sign..." Yet Paul, actually, states, But prophesying [SERVES] not for them that believe not, but FOR them which believe. U see preaching or teaching on spiritual matters SERVES the Church the Body of Christ.
The apostles only preached REPENTANCE & REMISSION OF SIN to unbelievers upon receiving tongues (sign, Gk. semeion - a token given to another). A sinner cannot grasp prophesying even if they profess to know Christ.
Strafete 1 year ago
@Strafete I'm not 100% sure where you both stand on the spiritual gifts, but I have read some of your discussion.
It may help you to know that in the original greek Prophesy means to speak in front of people, in front of a crowd. It is the english language that has corrupted the meaning of the word to mean prediction.
In regards to Tongues as well. in the KJV version the tongues in corinth is expressed as Unknown Tongue. Whereas Tongues (plural) Paul is referring to the real gift.
RenegadeMaster07 1 year ago
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@RenegadeMaster07 JESUS IS THE ONLY LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.
ALL THAT LOOKS LIKE TRITHESIM, DUALISM AND MULTIPLE GODS IS JUST DIFFERENT WAYS THE YHWH HAS MANIFESTED HIMSELF TO MEN.
ALL THAT JEHOVAH EVER WAS OR IS IS EMBODIED IN THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST. BAPTISM IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST IS THE WAY THE APOSTLES DID IT.
I KNOW ALL THE THREE GOD SCRIPTURES I GOT FROM DAKE, BUT IT IS AN ILLUSION AND NOT REVELATION.
MY FINAL STATEMENT ABOUT THE GREAT ONE GOD JESUS CHRIST!
HARLANGENEPARROTT 1 year ago
@RenegadeMaster07 He who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto man but unto God .... 1 Cor 14:1. That is a non-debate. So that only leaves the subject of the gift of tongues. BTW - what does it mean to preach, teach, or exhort before an assembly or group of true believers? Prophesy!
Strafete 1 year ago
@Strafete thats what i said about prophesy. Just so that was clear. It is a shame that now it is normally understood as prediction.
Edifying - enlightening or uplifting so as to encourage intellectual or moral improvement
v4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
To me that seems to be referring to motive, rather than benefit. That he does this to edify himself. Once again tongue is singular.
RenegadeMaster07 1 year ago
@RenegadeMaster07 So in v2 (not v1 as u said) i think this is sayin that he is trying to speak to God, because certainly this "tongue"(singular) is unknown to man.
Then he says that they prophesies for the assembly. Then that he edifies himself with tongues, and prophesy edifies the church.
v5 to me seems to be that everyone is trying to speak in tongues, even those who do not have the gift. So Paul is saying how he wishes they all had the gift. Which tells us they did not.
RenegadeMaster07 1 year ago
@RenegadeMaster07 still in v5 he defines it as a secondary gift. That prophesy is more beneficial, and that if he were to speak in tongues it would be a pointless practice unless it gave some benefit to the church.
v9-11 is back to the singular, and states that the common rule in all languages is meaning. He is suggesting what they are doing has no meaning.
v12 He said to build up the church instead with spiritual gifts rather than for your own benefit.
RenegadeMaster07 1 year ago
@RenegadeMaster07 in v21 he quotes the Law regarding the use of tongues from the Lord's own words. Then states in v22 that tongues is for unbelievers rather than believers, and that is its purpose.
In v23 he says that anyone who comes into the church from the outside would think them mad, and that prophesy would be more beneficial.
So from what i can see is tongues is for the benefit of unbelievers, and only if it is interpreted to them.
RenegadeMaster07 1 year ago
@RenegadeMaster07 You lost me here. It appears you are mixing the two concepts together. Do not Paul state v.24, if all prophesy and an unbeliever comes in he is convince of all. He also states in v.22 that tongues are for a sign TO unbelievers. Note: he did not say, tongues are for a sign FOR unbelievers. There is a difference.
Strafete 1 year ago
@Strafete can you explain that difference to me just so we're in sync here.
RenegadeMaster07 1 year ago
We cannot justify each other. You will stand before God alone the same as I. BTW - the word confession uses the passive voice (Gk. homologetai, not the active homogeo, which means to profess). It means the Holy Ghost is doing the action via the individual. That is the difference between what I have vs. what you have.
Strafete 2 years ago
@Strafete If u do not only base your doctrine in Acts but the whole bible then where do u put those that were SAVED without tongues, HEALED without tongues, SOLD their possession and layed them at the Apostle's feet.
thomla7 2 years ago
Saved w/o tongues? Tongues is the confirmation that one has received the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit witness of new birth in a true believer just as a child cries at birth shows the breath of new life.
Strafete 2 years ago
We have to HUMBLY recognize AND ACCEPT that the WORK of Christ alone is able to save us, and if the work is ALREADY DONE, what else can we do to be saved but BELIEVE, which is not work but having FAITH.
Romans4:5 But to him that WORKETH NOT but BELIEVETH on him that JUSTIFIETH the ungodly his FAITH is counted for righteouseness.
Romans4:10 Abraham was Justified BEFORE circumcision or like BAPTISM, 2 person performing an act upon.
thomla7 2 years ago
When did I ever say, Jesus did not pay it all. It is all faith! But faith that is unconfirmed is dead. Baptism means nothing if Christ had not come or died. We are justified by faith. My faith is validated by the following, Rom 4:
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Strafete 2 years ago
Well if your doctrine is, a man is not saved until he is BAPTIZED and in Jesus name only, then Jesus DID NOT PAID IT ALL, because once we confess in repentance thru faith by the spirit, there is remission or forgiveness, not after baptism.Paul in Romans 6 illustrates what happens in baptism and the key words r "LIKE and LIKENESS" meaning resemblance or similiar, all SYMBOLIC not ACTUAL.Like "FIGURE"1Peter 3:21
thomla7 2 years ago
U made my point in Rom 4:24-25
We are JUSTIFIED if we BELIEVE, not BAPTIZE, that
God rose Jesus from the dead and was delivered or offered up for our offences or sins and was raised again for our JUSTIFICATION.Therefore we do not need to be baptized to be JUSTIFIED before GOD, Christ already DID IT when it says he was raised for our JUSTIFICATION, that is why we only need to have faith in him. Rom 5:1
thomla7 2 years ago
I never said i was a prophet, i just PREACH God's word and leave the saving to him.
Romans9:15 I will have MERCY on whom i will have MERCY, and i will have compassion on whom i will have compassion.
God does not see us by BAPTISM or TONGUES but by the SPIRIT
Romans10:9 ... now if any man have not the SPIRIT of Christ he is none of his.
thomla7 2 years ago
GRACE supercedes mercy. God have extended grace even when mercy was withheld.
Strafete 2 years ago
MERCY is the result of GRACE, my point of Col.1:14 is even if a man don't speak in tongues or is baptized GOD IS THE ONE WHO SHOWS MERCY AND COMPASSION.
Acts3 shows God having mercy without baptism or tongues. Acts10 Cornelius saved before he was baptized.
That is why i said God decides not baptismal FORMULA or TONGUES.
thomla7 2 years ago
The true CHURCH glories in tribulation also: knowing tribulations works patience; and patience, experience; and experience, hope: and hope makes not ashamed; because the LOVE of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given to us. -- Rom. 5:3-5
Strafete 2 years ago
just wanted to share that even JESUS was baptized and HE is our EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW....besides, if it's not important to be baptized then why would it be in the bible in the 1st place?? you MUST be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS to receive salvation
benitez128822 2 years ago
@benitez128822 Yes he is an example to follow by being baptized but by him being baptized did not SAVE US but his DEATH ON TH CROSS SAVES US and our sins FORGIVEN IN HIS BLOOD.
COL.1:14 In whom we have REDEMPTION, through his blood, even the FORGIVENESS of sins.NOT BAPTISM, NOT TONGUES.
thomla7 2 years ago
i need all the christain freinds and subs please thank you i feel we can reach people if we be a freind to them with all meekness and kindness i am trying to do something good on youtube there are so many atheists please help me fight thank you
erichathy222 2 years ago
If Apostolic is going to uphold a model or process by being baptized and has to be in Jesus name ONLY for one to be saved then they have a problem with God in ACTS10 and THE CROSS.
There is nothing or work a man can do to ADD TO WHAT GOD HAD ALREADY DONE TO REDEEM MAN.
If baptism is apart of God's redemption then the CROSS or the BLOOD is not enough.Rom5:1 4:5 10:9 Luke18:9-14
thomla7 2 years ago
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Strafete 2 years ago
Protestant (evangelical) dominance and popularity over truth does not surprise me.
Jesus spoke of this as being one of the signs of the last days in Matt. 24:4-5 & 11-12, Let no man deceive you. For many will come in His name declaring that He is the Christ and shall deceive MANY.
And MANY false prophets shall come and deceive MANY. Because iniquity (professing Christ) shall increase, the love of MANY shall be made (Gk. pyscho) cold.
Strafete 2 years ago
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Everyone who has the Holy Ghost w/ the evidence of speaking in tongues and is baptized in water in Jesus' name SHALL BE SAVED.
Now, how does this add to Grace? Was it not Jesus who commanded men to be baptized? If any man commands not to baptize, as many do today, then his actions deduct from Grace, and it is also disobedience to God. You are drawing a conclusion on a position that has no middle.
Strafete 2 years ago
@Strafete If anyone commands u don't have to be baptized is in ERROR and really have not seen anyone who says that BUT no where in scripture it says WITHOUT BAPTISM U R NOT SAVED.U will not find that.
Now, u ADD to grace with baptism and tongues John1:17 For the law came by Moses BUT grace and truth came by Jesus Christ NOT BAPTISM OR TONGUES BUT BY JESUS THRU THE CROSS ALONE.
Eph2:8 For by Grace r ye saved thru faith, NOT BAPTISM OR TONGUES, NO WORKS
thomla7 2 years ago
I do not follow your train of thought? Baptism in Jesus' name and speaking in tongues IS GRACE, or should I say a RESULT OF GRACE in our lives.
Works is of the Old Covenant: temple/tabernacle worship of sacrificing, burnt offerrings, applying blood of animals on the mercy seat. THAT IS WORKS!
Strafete 2 years ago
If u say RESULT OF GRACE then i agree, because it is God thru the WORK of Christ brought grace to man NOT MAN WORKING TO ATTAIN GRACE or bringing GRACE to himself.
thomla7 2 years ago
You continue to confuse Grace with Law. When writers in the NT speaks of works it pertains to the LAW, Levitical service, Aaronic priesthood, and sacrificial worship.
TONGUES AND BAPTISM IS NOT WORKS! This is not what the apostles discourages.
Strafete 2 years ago
Strafete, let me be more clearer then,
Tongues in greek is "glossa" a speech or utterance.Tongues is a GIFT 1Corth 12:28 of the spirit not to ATTAIN or GET the spirit, therefore, agreed, IT IS NOT WORKS but without the INTERPRITATION it is nothing and has no VALUE to the church or unbelievers but with prophecying unblievers can be saved because they understand.Salvation comes before tongues.
thomla7 2 years ago
No, glossa is not mere speech or utterance. That is how misled scholars today often misinterpret the word. The correct meaning of the Greek word "glossa" is unintelligent utterances/language. It was how classical Greek and koine Greek scholars described barbaric "tongue" languages.
This is the knowledge that is kept hidden from the popular church in both Catholic and Protestant circles b/c they do not have an answer for tongues and too proud to seek God for true salvation.
Strafete 2 years ago
thomla, you are only perpetuating the popular misinterpretation of this and many other passages concerning tongues. In 1 Cor 12:4-7, Paul states that there are many gifts, administrations, and operations given by one Spirit, Lord, and God. But in v. 7 he states, "But the MANIFESTATION of the Spirit is given to EACH MAN..."
Now, other that than Jesus' baptism the Spirit descended upon Him like a dove, the only other manifestation of the Spirit upon any baptized believer is speaking in tongues.
Strafete 2 years ago
Strafete, yes , works was in the O.T but was not satisfactory until Christ work as the ultimate sacrifice was satisfactory."Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the whole world".
NOT BAPTISM.
thomla7 2 years ago
I agree! It also covers our faith in Christ, which covers baptism, speaking in tongues, and communion. It was the ultimate sacrifice both for the OT and NT saints.
Strafete 2 years ago
I am not sure what version you read? But every version that I have ever read, whenever men are commanded to baptize, it is spoken as an imperative statement. And an imperative is a command to act or to obey.
Strafete 2 years ago
I was baptized because i confessed Jesus as Lord and Saviour, repented and was INSTANEOUSLY forgiven NOT after BAPTISM
Do u baptized unrepented sinners? I think not.
Was Cornelius saved before he was baptized?
My point is, God decides who is saved and when, not man, as he showed Peter who admitted "WHAT WAS I, THAT I SHOULD WITHSTAND GOD" Acts11:17
thomla7 2 years ago
Just to a friendly reminder,
We must be careful not to sit in God's seat.He alone sees the heart, so we cannot Judge if a man is saved or not if he is baptized in 1 name or 3, just as long he confesses JESUS CHRIST IS LORD as the EUNUCH did before Phillip baptized him.A man can be baptized speak in tongues and still be unsaved CAN U KNOW IT?Well that is why many will heal,do miracles and Jesus says DEPART FROM ME, uthought they were saved.
thomla7 2 years ago
No one can, sit in God's seat. Neither can any judge b/c the Scripture does. The Bible says in Matt. 7, BEWARE of false prophets, which means to judge.
One may be able to cast out devils, prophesy, or do many wonderful works yet still be lost. However, it is impossible for one to be lost who has been baptized in Jesus name and filled w/ the Holy Ghost w/ the evidence of speaking in tongues. IMPOSSIBLE! That is true salvation. Anything else is professing Christ, which is iniquity.
Strafete 2 years ago
Notice in Matt. 7:22 that Jesus DID NOT say, many will say unto me that day, Lord, Lord, have we not spoken in tongues in thy name? And in thy name been baptized (buried in water)?
That is b/c speaking in tongues and the baptism confess about the state IN the believer. Casting out devils, prophesying, and doing great works speaks of the acts of believers and professed believers UPON others. It is the STATE of righteusness that makes one a true a believer (SAVED), not any ACT(S).
Strafete 2 years ago
@Strafete Well of course Jesus did not say "many shall speak in tongues" because PROPHECY is SUPERIOR TO TONGUES 1CORTH 14:4,5,19.The same as Acts2 they all spoke a different language V8 and how we hear every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born.This proves the Apostle in 1Corth14:22 Tongues is a sign for the UNSAVED not the SAVED neither does it profit to the saved or unsaved with the gift of INTERPERITATION.
thomla7 2 years ago
It sounds like you are speaking in the mind of Christ. BTW - do not add or take away from: if tongues were t be included, He could have easily stated . But He didn't!
Strafete 2 years ago
Strafete, well, honestly, i could have said u were speaking the mind of Christ but it is the understanding of the scriptures and IMPORTANTLY when we put them together as they don't CONTRADICT.Acts2 and 1Coth14 don't contradict and Paul was not saved yet in Acts2.I say that to say, i tied in 1Corth14 with what Christ said and showed why tongues was not used.
thomla7 2 years ago
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Strafete 2 years ago
thomla, 1 Cor 14 is the absolute corroboration of Act 2. There is no contradiction when taken in proper context. Most scholars, who for 1700 yrs do not have the experience, create the problems in their approach to interpret or translate these spiritual subjects.
Regardless of the person's claim, if one does not have the Holy Ghost, they are just as BLIND and LOST as the worst sinner no matter the station in life. If our gospel is hidden; it is hidden to them that are lost!
Strafete 2 years ago
@Strafete WHAT? it is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to be LOST if he is BAPTIZED and in Jesus only and SPEAK IN TONGUES.WHAT!!!!!
Well, that makes u GOD and u sitting in his seat because u see the HEART.
or,or ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED IS WHAT U BELEIVE IN.
thomla7 2 years ago
Apostolic have to uphold baptism as apart of salvation WHY? because if not, then the debate of what name or names to use is pointless if baptism don't save u.
thomla7 2 years ago
You are blind, and anyone who follow your line of thinking are blind! One day, maybe not too late, you will discover this.
Strafete 2 years ago
Strafete, Well thanks for letting me know i am blind because only the blind will the Lord show FALSE DOCTRINE.
thomla7 2 years ago
The spirit beggs to ask this question
If sins are forgiven by baptism
DID U GET BAPTIZED TODAY AND EVERYDAY?
WHY WOULD GOD"S SALVATION DEPENDS ON THE AVAILABILITY OF WATER?
thomla7 2 years ago
It is because baptism is God's salvific plan. Futhermore, SIN is remitted by a single baptism . Maybe you should also ask, why does God's salvation depend on repentance, conversion, or confession? It just does! Jesus commanded men to baptitze. (Matt. 28:19, Mk 16:15, Jn 3:5, Ac 2:38). It is salvation because of my faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Pet. 3:21)
Strafete 2 years ago
Everyone who are truly baptized into Jesus Christ are baptized into His death. We are buried with Him by baptism into death, according to the Apostle Paul (Rom. 6:3-4). Now I am sure that has no bearing on you.
Strafete 2 years ago
Strafete, don't forget Mk 16:16
I would like to know where in scripture we are forgiven by baptism or by a single baptism we are forgiven.
1Peter 3:21 "LIKE FIGURE" not ACTUALLY or LITERALLY.
1Peter3:21 Baptism is the ANSWER or "REACTION TO" reaction to what? A good conscience which came when we heard the word and REPENTED and was FORGIVEN before BAPTISM
thomla7 2 years ago
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Strafete 2 years ago
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It only takes ONE baptism because of the CROSS. Maybe you should address your 2nd question to the Apostles b/c they baptized all new followers before or even after their receiving the Holy Ghost.
Strafete 2 years ago
"JESUS IS LORD OF LORD"
blownhotrod22 2 years ago
God bless this man and the body of christ in JESUS NAME!!
mclovin354357 2 years ago
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thomla7 2 years ago
CONT... So in V18 he did not say upon u Peter i will build my church but upon THIS ROCK speaking of what was revealed and all the Apostles had that key in Acts and would not have been bold if it was not for the HG and all of us must have that key to be born again and to enter the kingdom.If the church was built on any Apostle it would be PAUL who laboured the most with 13 letters PETER only 2.
thomla7 2 years ago
My understanding is Jesus, God Manifested in flesh 1 Tim:3v16 told Peter that upon this rock Meaning earth I will build my church" this church is a church that is lead by the spirit of God not lead by man, We are not a cult because Cults are lead by Man, but we are lead by the Holghost.. Matt 28: 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
purrtikat 2 years ago
Ok, i gave u the greek for ROCK and Peter and their meaning.The NT was written in greek.I am not trying to intemmedate u but Rock in greek is PETRA means a MASSIVE ROCK.Peter is PETROS means small stone.Every church foudation is based on the CONFESSION THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.The church is a massive rock in the earth if u want to look at it that way.
thomla7 2 years ago
Quite frankly, your church doctrine states
No baptism- not saved
if u r and not in Jesus name- not saved
if r baptized in the 3 name- not saved
don't speak in tongues- not saved
u beleive in the trinity- not saved
So basically that is a cultic mentallity and put's Apostolic churches as GOD to judge those who beleive in their heart that Jesus died and rose again.
thomla7 2 years ago
We are not trinitys we believe in One God Deut 6:4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
We are Not a Cult a Cult is lead by Men we are Lead by Gods Spirit and we Obey the Word of God
purrtikat 2 years ago
I know your not trinitarian, u wrote enough for me to know that Lol , neither am i but i believe in the Godhead of father son and holy ghost.
How do u answer 1Peter 1:2.1John2:22
Hebrews9:24 Jesus APPEARED in the PRESENCE of God for us.
There are so many more proven scripture and some Apostolics just walk past these scriptures as if they don't mean a thing.I know u r oneness, at least consider them.Bless
thomla7 2 years ago
If Jesus is not God, then explain...
God manifested in the flesh 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
purrtikat 2 years ago
f Jesus is not God, then explain... 1. Why does Thomas call Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.) 2. Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8? 3. Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)? 4. Why is the phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4)
purrtikat 2 years ago
cont...used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh?
# Why does the apostle John say that Jesus was , "...calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18)?
# What did Jesus say that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God (John 8:58)
# How was it possible for Jesus to know all things (John 21:17)?
purrtikat 2 years ago
# How can Jesus, the Christ, dwell in you (Col. 1:27)?
# How can Jesus be the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3)?
# How can Jesus be eternal (Micah 5:1-2)?
# How can Jesus be the one who gives eternal life (John 10:27-28)?
# How can He be our only Lord and Master (Jude 4)?
# How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) if there is only one God
in existence (Isaiah 44:6-8; 45:5)?
purrtikat 2 years ago
# How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and "God" also be called the Mighty God inIsaiah 10:21?
# How was Jesus able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21)?
# How can Jesus create all things (Col. 1:16-17), yet it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:24)?
# How can Jesus search the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23)?
purrtikat 2 years ago
# Why was Jesus worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) when He says to worship God only (Matt. 4:10)? (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.)
# In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58.
purrtikat 2 years ago
# Then why did Jesus claim the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58? see Exodus 3:14.
# Then why did Jesus say you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23)?
# Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life (John 5:21)?
# Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself (John 8:18; 14:6)?
purrtikat 2 years ago
The Bible clearly distinguishes God the Father from His Son. The Son was born in Bethlehem, but the eternal God does not know a beginning. The Son grew into maturity - physically, mentally, socially, and spiritually. He became tired, hungry, weary, sleepy - just as other men. Although He did not commit sin, He was tempted in all points as other men are tempted. He suffered from the trials in Jerusalem and died on the cross-just as the two thieves also died.
purrtikat 2 years ago
cont.. God does not grow, nor can He die. These facts alone clearly distinguish the Son from the Father. The Bible tells us that the man Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men (I Timothy 2:5). God is one, but a mediator serves more than one - He stood between God and mankind, effecting reconciliation. Only as a man could Jesus be our sacrifice, mediator, advocate, and high priest, acting on our behalf for our justification.
purrtikat 2 years ago
Jesus offered Himself as a spotless lamb to God. Having lived as a human being, He offered the blood from His own body as the basis for the forgiveness of our sins. God did not die on the cross, nor did a divine eternal person offer blood from a divine eternal body. As the Son of God Jesus offered His own human body and His own earthly blood to God. The distinction between God and His Son can also be seen in the events after the crucifixion.
purrtikat 2 years ago
God raised Jesus from the dead (Romans 10:9, Ephesians 1:20), gave Him all power in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18)made Him Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), and exalted His name to be above every name in heaven, on earth, and beneath the earth (Philippians 2:9). If the Son had been a co-equal person in the Godhead, this exaltation would not have been possible, for He would have had these positions and attributes from eternity.
purrtikat 2 years ago
It is evident, therefore, that the Son of God was not a second divine person in the Godhead.
Biblical facts reveal that Jesus lived as an authentic human being, that He did not merely assume the appearance of flesh (1). Therefore we should not be surprised that He prayed to God, seeking strength, guidance, and assurance. Moreover, we should not be surprised that Jesus had a will distinct from God (2), that He was truly human in spirit and soul, that He possessed a self-awareness of His humanity
purrtikat 2 years ago
We are not to suppose, however, that the human Jesus was not different from other people, for only He was begotten by the Holy Ghost. God was His immediate Father. He is rightfully called the "only begotten of the Father". His miraculous birth meant that His humanity was not tainted with the inherited sinful nature of the Fall, and through Him God could reveal Himself to us in redemptive love.
purrtikat 2 years ago
Jesus was both God and man. Although this union is sometimes referred to as God-man, this term may be misleading, for it may lead some people to think of Him as a demigod. On the other hand, it is equally incorrect to refer to Him as a anointed man. Although quantitatively God cannot be confined to a body, qualitatively he could reside in a body. Neither was Jesus a part-human, but he was man in the full sense. He was fully God and fully man.
purrtikat 2 years ago
He possessed both the nature of God and the nature of man. He was aware that He was He was God and that He was man. He could and did speak and act as a man, and he could and did speak and act as God. As a man, he did not know the day or hour when the Son would come in power and glory (Mark 13:22); as God he forgave sins. Both His humanity and deity, although fused into His one being, remained distinct within His one personality.
purrtikat 2 years ago
Admittedly, the Incarnation is a mystery beyond the comprehension of the human mind.
purrtikat 2 years ago
Did Jesus pray to Himself ? No, not when we understand that Jesus was both God and man. In His deity Jesus did not pray, for God does not need to pray to anyone. As a man, Jesus prayed to God, not to his humanity (7). He did not pray to Himself as humanity, but to the one true God, to the same God who dwelled in His humanity and who also inhabits the universe.
purrtikat 2 years ago
No further explanation is given, and none is needed. Does Jesus pray now since his exaltation ? The answer is no. He prayed in the days of His flesh (Hebrews 5:7). The work of the mediation was finished through His death on the cross at Calvary (Hebrews 9:14-15). There is no more sacrifice for sins, for once and for all time His blood was shed for the remission of sins (Hebrews 10:12). Unlike the Old Testament priests, he does not continually offer sacrifices for sins.
purrtikat 2 years ago
There is no more offering, but there remains remission of sins for those who repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Hebrews 10:18, Acts 2:38). His present role as intercessor consists not only of daily prayers but the application of the benefit of the cross to our lives (Romans 8:34; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:1-2).
purrtikat 2 years ago
Jesus said, "At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again I leave the world and go to the Father" (John 16:26-28). Jesus does not pray now, but as God He hears and answers prayers prayed in His name.
purrtikat 2 years ago 2
I'm finish now Good night and God Bless
purrtikat 2 years ago
WOW, that's alot of knowledge, TO GOD BE THE GLORY, but 2 Timothy 3:7Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.I have nothing against u personally but the DOCTRINE.
First off with Baptism, i beleive in that whole heartedly but i do not use it as a yoke as the Jews used circumcision in acts for one to become saved.
thomla7 2 years ago
@thomla7 well they actually did. it was the mark of god or to show you were a child of god. same as baptism. philippians 2:11-14 shows the connection between the two actions. hope that helps.god bless
mclovin354357 2 years ago
Comment removed
thomla7 2 years ago
If they actually did, then what was the outcome?
Romans 4:9-12 gives the answer
V10 How was righteousness reckoned to Abraham by God? in circumcision or in uncircumcision? Not in circumsicion but in uncircumcision
So when were we declared righteous? before baptism or after baptism?
BEFORE BAPTISM, everyone believed in Christ before baptism but are they justified in baptism, NO but by faith says Romans 3:28,30 4:5 Gal 2:16
thomla7 2 years ago
In Phillipians, yes, it state work out your own salvation, "NOT FOR YOUR SALVATION or TO OBTAIN SALVATION.
V13 It is God who worketh in us, which is INVISIBLE TO MAN but when we workout our salvation it is VISIBLE TO MAN, that is why Paul states a man is not justified by WORKS because we don't see the heart and God can still reject him and we don't know it because of his UNBELIEF.
thomla7 2 years ago
Mcl, all i am saying u cannot declare a man not saved because he is not baptized, that is not in scripture, because it is God who sees the heart.Yes, if man believes he must be baptized as it is made available to him by the preacher but BIBLICALLY, he was saved before baptism and it cannot add to his faith nor salvation which the work was all done by Christ on the cross, fully not part paid for baptism to be apart of the payment.
thomla7 2 years ago