MORMONISM IS NOT A CHRISTIAN RELIGION! BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE NOT LEAD INTO THE DECEPTION OF THIS PROVEN FALSE RELIGION!
I read this book and highly recommend it for everyone who is looking in to this blasphemous religion that can take your soul to hell. The author grew up in the Mormon Church and it is a completely FALSE RELIGION!
Arm yourselves! Read the book: “CAN MITT ROMNEY SERVE TWO MASTERS? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America”
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
It is not about what we have done, but what Yeshua did for us. The only begotten Son did'nt come to change the law, but to fullfill it, for us. Grace can not be earned. There can be only one truth, we have it in the Bible the word of God
@CalledOutOne913 " The only begotten Son did'nt come to change the law, but to fullfill it, for us"
Yet, you do not follow 'the law' now, which is a CHANGE. You cannot fulfill laws anyway. Its not how law works. If you think it does try speeding down a highway after having already observed the speed limit once, and telling the Highway Patrol that pulls you over that its cool, you fulfilled the law already. Seriously, good luck with that.
I guess Keith is ready to be saved because he is certainly lost. He does NOT understand Mormon Doctrine. Period. He is certainly preaching the impossible gospel because no one will be saved by this doctrine. I believe that Keith is intentionally distorting the truth of what we (LDS) teach and therefore misleading his parishioners. He is very misinformed, folks.
mormons beleive in the book, yet the doctrines of revelation are somewhat different, conflicttable with the bok of Mormon, yet the today prophet has change it, he change it, no consistency, why is it so inconsistent? Compared to the bible, the bible is consistent, it is God's Word, it never changes, no human goes and says he has a power to change it, and the prophets in the bible never changed the word of God. Why do we need a prophet these days, when we have the bible, God words.
@joannelarcher The bible is not consistent at all. There are plenty of conflicts, mistakes, and flat out fallacies. You just choose to ignore them or haven't looked hard enough to find them. All you have to do is Google "bible contradictions" or "bible mistakes" and have your eyes opened. A perfect being can't make mistakes, but the bible is full of them because it was written by men, not a god.
Religions downgrade the human mind and working thought processes. Telling a child the concept of hell or that any punishments will be put onto them by a deity is cruel and unusual punishment. All religions want their stories spread and to gain followers with no tangible proof of their ridiculous claims. This must be stopped and all thinking people must begin to question and point out the problems with their claims and ridicule publicly how silly they are. It is our duty
@party489 im not wanting to argue, or say you're wrong, but honestly, evolution has no tangible evidence either... no videos of the big bang, nothing to back up the big bang theory, nothing that really shows how the planets formed, how the primordial soup made life, how that reproduced, how one kind of animal changed into another, there are tons of gaps. Christianity has no gaps. So, you have to decide which to have faith in. it looks like you already have....
@ekaysthisnthat WTF are you talking about. Do you know how much evidence their is for evolution. There is tons and tons of evidence for evolution. Do you know there is a lot of evidence that Joseph Smith was a total fraud. You also know that his stories where just bat shit crazy and no one should respect anyone who has a mind so dull that they could believe any of it. Most not even looking and questioning their thought process critically. You know like science does. Mormons are Morons.
@party489 I am not a mormon; I am a Christian. Mormons belong to a cult, not Christianity. Science cannot prove history. Science is not intended to. The scientific process cannot be retroactive. It is repeatable, observable, and consistent. None of these apply to the formation of the universe. However you believe that it came into existence, you must take it by faith. I believe the account that explains everything. You seem to believe the one that can't.
@ekaysthisnthat Your cult is no different then the mormons or scientologist. How do you like eating the flesh of Christ and drink of his alcoholic blood as well? When one person suffers from a delusion they are called crazy when many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion. The process of science and being able to build upon the facts we have is so beautiful and has taken us so far as a species. Its Ok to say their is a god but too really think he wrote any book is insane at best.
@party489 I do not believe that I am unreasonable in looking at the world through my "glasses" of the Bible. It is no different than looking through the "glasses" of the idea that there is absolutely no way God created this world. We come full circle. I still stand by the fact that everything in this world can be explained by God and His creativity. I still say that evolution does not come anywhere close to doing the same.
@ekaysthisnthat Faith is believing something for no reason. You know that is the def. of Faith right? Science is believing something based on as many facts as possible to come up with the best conclusion. Tell me you are nutty enough to believe in prayer too. I bet you are just afraid to think that there is no god or with very high probability not the one of the Holy Babble. Wake up and stop being a sheep and having this mind/society control, superstitious man made crap shoved down your troat
@party489 faith is believing in something when you do not have absolute proof of it. If you define it as being for no reason, then I am not taking it by faith because I do have reasons. Everything in this universe can be explained by God. I believe that evolution has more gaps than substance. Those right there are reasons. What reasons are there to believe in the Big Bang?
@party489 If an evolutionist scientist found written in the molecules of a rock "There is a God," he would find a way to explain it away or would just ignore it. Evolutionists look at the world from the perspective that God could not have created this universe, therefore, they come to conclusions that seem to "prove" that He didn't. It is circular reasoning one way or the other. There are few unbiased scientists that are willing to put their beliefs aside and look at the facts for what they are.
we are saved and we have christ and we take upon us his name every time we take sacrament. why people hate the lds faith i dont understand. we love jesus he is our savior
"...it has been ALL THAT WE COULD DO, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to REPENT of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was ALL WE COULD DO to REPENT sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain"
Too true! Just when it SEEMS that I've explained a certain point of LDS doctrine/beliefs so that anti-Mormonism types can't possibly misunderstand it, then...well...things are not always as they seem.
You have truthfulness in your hands withthe book of mormon. You should read and pray about it. You would not be doing this video. this is so sad. I am sad for you.
Thank God for this truth being delivered. It is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. His finished work is the price paid for sin and faith in Him is all He asks of us. True faith will produce Amen.
to repent in a Biblical sense is to change one's mind about their need for a savior. The Mormon idea of repentance is that every time we sin, we have to repent. The problem with this is that if we literally repent in that manner, we must NEVER do that sin again, or we have not truly repented. When a Christian sins, we ask God for forgiveness, which He gives without reservation, then we try to do better, but we still fail sometimes, and that is why Jesus died.
@jonnygotz2343 yes, but which Jesus do you love, and what do you mean by love? Jesus said "if you love me, keep my commandments" and then He said that the greatest commandment was "Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one Lord....." Mormonism denies this fact straight up, they say that our creator is but one in a long line of gods and that we may become like Him if we are good religious people, but God alone is and always has been God. There is no other God, period.
@godluvsmormons "He said that the greatest commandment was "Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one Lord" Need to check your facts, m'man. Jesus said: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment." (Matt 22:37 - 38)
Mormons worship only one God. Whether we believe in the existence of more than one god is immaterial.
Is that what that means? So, you're saying that the time when "we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God" has already come? Can you show me where that time came in the Bible? Have you read the cross-reference to 2 Nephi 25:23? It implies that "after" refers to degree of importance. In fact, Stephen E. Robinson, religion professor at BYU has commented that it could be read as "despite all we can do." That correlates well with the cross-reference.
Since when did BYU professors become apostles? Who has authority to speak for the Lord? LDS Bible dictionary:...grace cannot suffice without total effort. Pres. Benson 1982"What is meant by 'after all we can do'? 'After all we can do' includes extending our best effort. 'After all we can do' includes living His commandments. '...(plus long list of to do's) Faust:We cannot be saved by grace alone, 'for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.'"
This entire sermon relies heavily on a basic logical fallacy called a straw man argument. In order to catch Mormon theology in a logical absurdity, he simply misrepresents Mormon doctrine. The most obvious way he does this is by ignoring that the term "after" has multiple definitions and that the Book of Mormon could be referring to a definition of "after" other than chronological. In fact, merely looking at the cross-references to 2 Nephi 25:23 proves he is not teaching Mormon doctrine.
Another ridiculous attempt by Mormons to twist words. Your reference to 2Nep is a prime example.
"23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."
"After" means after. The Grace comes AFTER all you can do. Have done ALL you can do?
@hammer7629 ... your interpretation is not correct. Mormons know that grace is there. There is no such thing as "well, you didn't do all you could (who ever does, really?), so, sorry about that, but grace doesn't apply to you". The verse means that when we fall short--and we will--grace will be there to take us the rest of the way. In all my years in the church, I've never met one Mormon who thought that they could get to heaven on their own. It's not doctrinal.
Nicely put Jehu. I find it ridiculous that someone who claimed teach the doctrine of Christ would counsel people to stop repenting. Definately a straw man arguement, Joseph smith talked about recieving grace for grace until we are perfected and made whole in Christ. Does he mean to say that we are saved in our sins? I hope not. It is only logical and scriptural to believe that we are saved FROM them. In other words, Jesus changes our heart. What a disgraceful attemp at representing "mormonism."
@Jehu, Do you get to pick which meaning you want? Who interprets scripture for you? Your prophets. Here's what they say "after all you can do" means: Romney, Ensign "by our own merits; McMullin, Ensign "exert every ounce of energy"; Cook, Ensign "giving all that we can give and doing all that we can do in our present circumstance"; Romney, Ensign ""maximum effort"; Oaks "And what is 'all we can do'? It surely includes repentance and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end."
@JediLDS ...I am trying to remember, that comment was so long ago, I don't think my point was to tell you what you should or shouldn't believe. That of course is a personal choice. My main point is about Mormon authorities instructing the LDS members about the meaning of 1 Nephi - saved after all you can do. If you are contrary to that teaching of exerting every ounce of effort before salvation is affective, then I rejoice!
@redboxgift Actually, it's 2 Nephi 25:23, and is probably one of the more misunderstood verses in the Book of Mormon, in my opinion. Some equate it to meaning that IF we don't do everything possible ourselves, then we've not satisfied the stipulation in the verse and therefore, grace will not "kick in". Not true. Grace is always there. To me, the "do" part of "after all we can do" implies that we are striving to live the gospel of Christ to the best of our ability.
(cont...) Naturally, we can't live it perfectly, so we're going to fall short. When we do, grace makes up for our lack of, and takes us the rest of the way.
@JediLDS ...I get frustrated when trying to figure out LDS doctrine.The doctrine morphs to the situation. Why would I take your opinion for the meaning of 2 Nephi over that of the LDS authorities? I could give you pages of authoritative quotes that are contrary to your opinion. What gets me is that the LDS claim the only true church status in part because of the restored priesthood, and authority-yet you have no problem dismissing quote after quote from those in authority. D&C 1:38
@redboxgift "Another form of misrepresentation is to claim something is official LDS doctrine when it may merely be an individual opinion or even speculation. The official doctrine of the Latter-day Saints is clearly defined and readily accessible to all. Doctrines are official if they are found in the standard works of the Church, if they are sustained by the Church in general conference (D&C 26:2), or if they are taught by the First Presidency as a presidency. (cont...)
@cont... Policies and procedures are official whenever those who hold the keys and have been sustained by the Church to make them declare them so. Other churches claim the right to define and interpret their own doctrines and policies and to distinguish between official church teachings and the opinions of individual members. Surely the Latter-day Saints must be allowed the same privilege." (From The New Era, a church publication, 1998)
@cont... "If I should say something which is contrary to that which is written in the standard works of the Church, and accepted by the Authorities of the Church and approved by the Church generally, no one is under obligation to accept it. Everything that I say and everything that any other person says must square itself with that which the Lord has revealed, or it should be rejected."
Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1943, Third Day—Morning Meeting, p.97
@JediLDS This is another example of morphing to fit whatever situation you want. What about Benson? His 14 points of following a prophet don't line up with JF Smith's view. You follow JF Smith's views-no one is under obligation to accept it. How convenient! You claim the right to interpret/establish doctrine and in the very next post you also claim the right to dismiss it. What is the whole point then to having so called prophets who speak for God? (If only I could work my taxes like that!)
@JediLDS" One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."-- Mark 12:28-30
@JediLDS Right, and is that on official position coming from the New Era? If so, the pages of quotes that speak of "after all you can do" meaning- after exerting all present effort and then grace is effective- comes from "those who hold the keys, speaking in official capacity." You muddy the waters with your opinion of 2 Nephi as posted below. Do your quotes somehow negate D&C 1:38-because if that verse is correct, then when you speak contrary to His servants, you speak contrary to Him.
you talk about prayer, and after all you can do. well let me ask you something, if there's more we can do, than why arent you praying every single night and morning and just as often as possible to know whether the LDS church is wrong or not? because i promise "if" you do, with real intent, meaning you act on your answer, than your answer will be "yes, it is true."
Jesus is true, not any church. The word church means "the called out ones" in Greek, and has absolutely nothing to do with any earthly organization. As a matter of fact, Jesus said "my kingdom is NOT of this world" so any "church" claiming an earth based, man centered hierarchy is NULL and false. Have you ever prayed and asked God if Satanism is true? Buddhism? Hinduism? The Baptist church? If not, why? Jesus is true... Jesus, not a church, not a Joseph, not a Brigham, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...
Have you ever prayed and asked whether loving your neighbor is true? If not, why? Because Jesus is true? But what, then, does "Jesus being true" refer to if he taught us to love our neighbor? And what if he taught us (through revelation) to set up a church, just like he did in the New Testament? "Of this earth" does NOT mean "on this earth." It is a reference to corruption and worldliness, not simply being physically on the earth. Indeed, Jesus contradicts himself if that's what he means.
According to godluvsmormons, the scriptural meaning of church "has absolutely nothing to do with any earthly organization." Yet Luke 11:49, 1 Cor 12:28, Eph 4:11 and multitudes of other scriptures refer to an organized church on the earth personally set up by and led by Jesus Christ. Since a perfect Christ cannot contradict himself, we can conclude that godluv's interpretation of Christ's words is completely false. (Otherwise we are left to conclude Christ set up a false church in the NT.)
Luke 11:49 "Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute." Not only does this verse not even mention the church, it is referring to the prophets of the past, before the church even existed. In first Corinthians 12:28, it is merely saying that among the people of the church, God placed people with prophetic gifts, as well as other gifts, not that the church has to have these men to exist-continued--
"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, & some to be pastors & teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up UNTIL we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God & become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." This means that God would not allow the church to be without these gifts, UNTIL they were not needed, hence, prophets are no longer needed
no, I do not think we have, however, that would still defeat Mormonism, because according to them, the church fell away (i.e. there were no more prophets and apostles) shortly after the last apostle died. If we are to take that verse as it is written, then there would be apostles UNTIL we reach a unity of faith. Since we have not, then it must remain true that there have always been apostles.
you "like to use the words that they say" against them, because you're too worried about stuff that frankly you should be. like proving everyone wrong.
interesting i think, not that i'm trying to bash, so i'm sorry if it sounds that way but, do you relise that you've contridicted yourself, because you made the implication that Christians dont bash, and yet here you are, bashing and teaching people how to bash the LDS church. lol, i just think it's funny that's all.
"Is Jesus one of many necessary things that you need for forgiveness... or is he, alone, sufficient?" Biblically, this is a monstrously false dichotomy. There would be no need to invoke "the name of Jesus" (nor even use the phrase "in the name of Jesus") if all the OTHER things Christ teaches weren't necessary for our salvation. The reason is that the phrase "in the name of Jesus," in effect, is invoking the trustworthiness of Jesus' teachings, which includes many, many things, like love, etc.
"I've saved up all my pennies for this new bike!" "How many pennies?" "Ten!" "Honey, that's not enough. It's a $100 bike! I'll tell you what, if you give me all ten cents and a hug, I'll pay for the rest." Hmmm... so the fact that the girl could only pay ten cents for a hundred dollar bike means her dad didn't pay for her bike out of grace! Wow! Stupid either-or theological arguments that can't be backed by scripture or logic. Drop 'em.
A denial of the need for works is a denial of the very definition of a covenant. A covenant, by definition, is NEVER unilateral. It is always a two-way agreement. If one party does X, then the other agrees to to X. Indeed, the very definition of the "new testament" means "new covenant" and is a reference to Jeremiah. If works aren't required in your theology then you're denying the "new TESTAMENT in Christ's blood" simply by definition.
His claim that LDS theology requires people to stop ALL YOUR SINNING BEFORE YOU DIE is patently false. It ignores some pretty central LDS doctrines. Either this guy is ignorant of the MOST BASIC LDS DOCTRINE or he is lying. It ignores the entire doctrine of eternal progression, the millenium and the ultimate establishment of the kingdom of God as LDS doctrine sees it! NOT A MINOR OMISSION!!!!!!
If Jesus is sufficient, then we wouldn't need his grace. Christ isn't his grace anymore than I am my kindness. Therefore, this man's logic betrays his own doctrine. Not only that, the only logical conclusion of his statement that "Jesus is enough" (whatever that means) is that Christ was teaching a false gospel. After all, he preached baptism, he "gave some apostles, some prophets, some teachers, etc.," he taught people to love one another, etc., etc., etc. Preaching a false Jesus. No thx.
So, if we're not free to sin if we're "under grace," and our very nature as a human being is sinful, then there is no choice but to sin forever.
The idea of "grace, not works" is not taught in the Bible. It's taught by a man--namely Martin Luther--who never even claimed to be a prophet (i.e., he is privately interpreting doctrine).
LDS doctrine DOES differ on the idea that "works and grace" are mutually exclusive. However, to be "saved by works" would require a person to NEVER SIN ONCE. There's a big difference between (1) requiring a person to do some things to qualify for God's grace and (2) never needing God's grace in the first place. This is actually what Paul's preaching means ("All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.") Mormons don't believe they're SAVED by works, just that we have to DO works.
Actually LDS doctrine is similar to traditional Christian doctrine on sin and grace, except traditional Christian doctrine is incapable of accounting for the idea that "no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of heaven." This man's preaching reveals the truly "impossible gospel": Christ apparently died so mankind can sin forever if his eternal nature is sinful. Christ's grace and atonement changes it. It's called proximate perfection vs. eternal perfection (see Neal A. Maxwell).
This is a typical case of superimposing LDS doctrine on non-LDS doctrine. It is a misrepresentation. It's actually easy to (even intentionally) misinterpret anybody's religion through their scriptural text. It's not rocket science. This guy is misleading people about doctrinal facts(which have an objective basis in the prophetic interpretation). The scriptures are of no private interpretation. The actual doctrine is insightful, beautiful and casts light on the Bible and Christ's grace.
STOP REPENTING his T shirt says. This guy is not just an anti mormon, he is anti-Christian. He is preaching the impossible gospel of apostates, those who have dreamed up ANOTHER GOSPEL as spoken of in Galatians.
You are an idiot to prejudge a video without even watching it, based on what somebody has on their T-shirt. Clearly, you aren't very objective if you didn't listen to see what the guy had say for longer than a minute...No wonder you always ban people from your video page for the small things. I guess it makes you feel important, while at the same time your living in denial.
@mormonanswerman ya show me arclagical evedince tht the book of mormon is true give me the historcal fact n tell me the freemasonry tht go on in mormonism n why did joey smith have 33 wives
anyone who puts STOP REPENTING on their T Shirt is sending the wrong message no matter how you spin it, or tell them to "watch the whole video." What?? An hour just to see why he is playing games? Nah.
Yes, and the personal works-righteousness that Mormon & Watchtower Society members typically trust in is well nigh as repugnant & offensive to the Beautiful God as the religious leaders were to Jesus when he walked this earth, & for which He various times had such scathing words.
Repent people & make your boast in the Lord. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.
Well, since Reklaw was so easily defeated on doctrinal questions, perhaps another LDS person will step up.
The question is: Why do the LDS not even attempt to follow the 4th commandment, if, as Reklaw says, one must "absolutely" follow the fourth commandment?
jakedevon, you don't "defeat" anybody, you just misquote them. Misquote them often enough that you try to make it look like they said something else. I guess you are just a liar, because you did this to me also on another video. The ? is why do you do this?
btw, I really think your "good o meter" video is absolutely satanic.
Another great example of how easy it is to defeat mormen when debating doctrine.
Actually, did you notice that in our brief exchange how Reklaw refused to really engage in doctrine?
I guess that he knows better because the Holy Spirit will "give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist." (Luke 21:15)
I hate it because it is such a lie. God doesn't work that way, brushing off the good works of people just because they didn't give Jesus all the credit.
What kind of a God would require us to give all the credit for what we do to someone else? What kind of a God would require us to be mind numbed robots that have no free agency? What kind of a God would require us to have no agency. I want no such God. Thank God that "god" does NOT exist.
CHOOSE ye this day whom ye will serve. That's BIBLICAL and you can take it to the bank.
Its all about choice, repentance, correcting course, and just look at how Jesus' Apostles PROGRESSED as they started out WEAK and ended up dieing STRONG. There was significant change from bad excuse making christians, like many today, to a very perfect state with Jesus' Apostles. That is plain from the record.
Thomas Monson, for instance, is a very perfect man, same with all the Apostles. Look at them.
"What kind of a God would require us to have no agency."
There was nothing in the video that even implied that people don't have freewill.
Quite the opposite, do you think that the Lord God forced the last guy to do all the evil things in that file? No! That guy did those evil acts on his own volition.
Don't try to justify that awful video. It clearly says that no matter what we do, Jesus saved only the one guy, and all the rest went to hell. Nice "jesus" there.
and the guy who gets to heaven is the one with the most SINFUL file. Most shameful.
No wonder anti mormons love this idea. All the good people go to hell, and the sinful ones are saved. Real justice there...
"and the guy who gets to heaven is the one with the most SINFUL file."
It is inferred in the video that, everyone who went left didn't rely on the Lord Jesus for salvation; they relied on their own works as they explained.
The point of the video is to show that the people that go to be with the Lord do NOT deserve it.
The Lord Jesus came for the sinners, not the righteous. (Matt 9: 13)
And it is amazing how easy is to declare victory when one covers his eyes and ears and yells "nu uh!" until the opponent realizes he is wasting his time. You are truly pathetic, jake.
You seem so unable to answer my question ("Why do the LDS not even attempt to follow the 4th commandment, if, as Reklaw claims, one must "absolutely" follow the commandments?") that you falsely declare my question to be a red herring.
"How, when I clearly stated that if you equate harmonization with making stuff up,"
Of course you make any claim that you want, but that doesn't make it true.
The LDS claim that there are marriages in heaven, but the Lord Jesus said the opposite. He said: "in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage,"
That is a great example of the LDS just making stuff up.
This is avoiding the question of "how." You blatantly lied and you know it. No shame either. That is all that needed to be clarified. Readers can make up their own minds. Once again, what I actually said: "If by harmonzie, you mean make up a meaning to fit your 16th century Protestant invention, then you are absolutely right: Mormons don't do that." What jake says: "Reklaw says Mormons don't harmonize." Readers can decide.
"I think that you are making the mistake of elevating scripture above scripture. "
No, actually we call it context, as in reading it in context. Evangelical "Gospel" involves cutting and pasting and assiduously avoiding reading on in the same letter or chapter. No person can read Romans and come away saying it is only faith and no good deeds. That is, if you read the whole thing. But if I take the completely random "let scripture interpret scripture" way, I can be an Evangelical.
I know that this is what you call it, but what it actually is is elevating scripture above scripture.
You see, what Christians are to do is harmonize scripture, not ignore any scripture that contradict one's doctrine as the LDS do.
A good example: you said that Christ's gift saved everyone; "No conditions.", you said. Then I pointed out that we get crops with sweat (Gen 3:17). And you ignored scripture to keep your flawed doctrine.
Remember, you are arguing that we live in the garden of eden because you say that the Lord Jesus undid the fall of Adam with, as you say, "no conditions".
You really should learn to harmonize the scripture.
Well, you really should believe the Word of God first, and then learn to harmonize.
Who wouldn't step forward to claim it? And are you not then stating that they must 'do' something to claim the gift, other than just faith? Since James notes that "devils believe", I have to think that even us dumb Mormons would sign up for a free gift from the guy we do in fact believe is the son of God.
What does accepting this gift entail? Do we need a theological mastery of the Trinity? BTW, Rom 5:18 has no conditional language. Christ's gift undid Adam's fall. No conditions.
You could always actually read the passage as it is written. Read Romans 5 with Romans 1,2,3, 4, 6, 7 and 8, as it was intended at a minimum to be read, and Voile, you see that ALL have been redeemed. BUT, they retain their redemption through obedience, Rom 6:16,22-23. Read the Bible and follow the teachings of LDS leaders. Elder Holland's talk was awesome on Sunday. You could learn a lot about salvation.
Liar. Nevermind what I actually said: "If by harmonize, you mean make up a meaning to fit your 16th century Protestant invention, then you are absolutely right: Mormons don't do that." This was 3 months ago. Despite numerous corrections, you have continued to misrepresent what I said. Not only do you have no idea what you are talking about, but you have no shame in lying. Stay classy.
"If by harmonize, you mean make up a meaning to fit your 16th century Protestant invention,"
Firstly, I am not making the Bible mean anything. It means what It means.
Secondly, I am not protestant.
Thirdly, I was just referring to the fact that mormen seem to avoid answering questions when the questions get too hard. (A good example: Why do LDS not even try to obey the 4th commandment, if, as Reklaw says, one must "absolutely" obey the commandments.)
"I was just referring to the fact that mormen seem to avoid answering questions when the questions get too hard."
They avoid addressing logical fallacies like red herrings.
"That makes it much easier for me to win the debate."
I won a long time ago. Answers such as "You can make the Greek say whatever you want," "It is all of the devil," "that isn't what the AV says" aren't good answers. Fail.
"They avoid addressing logical fallacies like red herrings."
and
"You can make the Greek say what ever you want,""It is all of the devil," "that isn't what the AV says" aren't good answers."
Unanswered questions don't just go away.
Notice, readers, that Reklaw just declares my answers as "not good" and that my legitimate questions as "red herrings". I guess that he does this so that he can claim that he doesn't have to deal with them.
Readers can decide for themselves if they think those 3 examples are "good answers." I don't think they are because they don't refute anything. They are subjective nonsense. Readers can also decide for themselves if your "legitimate question" was a red herring or not. Repeating logical fallacies don't make them any less fallacious.
"They avoid addressing logical fallacies like red herrings."
They seem to also avoid answering questions when questions get too hard.
You falsely claim that my question ("Why do the LDS not even attempt to follow the 4th commandment, if, as Reklaw claims, that one must follow the commandments?") even though it is a legitimate question.
Why do the LDS not follow the 4th commandment? (Reklaw: 'That's a red herring!' -"If it's a red herring, then you're saying that they do follow the 4th?")
Yet, you had no problem answering posts that I had posted after it, which I have no doubt you would have continued to do if I hadn't called you out on it. Like I said, I'm not here debating doctrine anymore. I'm here clearing my name.
"I'm not here debating doctrine anymore. I'm here clearing my name."
So, which is more important to you; your doctrine or you name?
I only ask because you really don't spend much time defending you doctrine, and now you it seems that you are putting yourself ahead of your doctrine.
I know that you want this to be about me and not about doctrine. That makes it much easier for me to win the debate.
Let us take the mormen false doctrine of eternal marriages for example.
When the Lord Jesus was asked about the sealing of a woman to a man, the Lord Jesus answered: "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures... in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage," (Mat 22)
Not really. I just want you to stop misrepresenting what I said like I've asked you the past 3 months. However, you continually twist my words after MANY corrections. I am not here to debate anymore. I am here to clear my name and not allow you to get away with twisting my words. Until you stop and apologize, you will continue to be a liar. If you don't want me to "make it about you," then don't "make it about me" by misrepresenting me.
"Read the Bible and follow the teachings of LDS leaders."
No thanks. I'll just try to stick with following the teachings of the Bible.
Remember, the Christians believe the Bible when it says "For by grace are ye saved through faith... Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph 2:8,9) And we know how to harmonize that with James 2.
The Mormon church administered about $830 million in humanitarian aid between 1985 and 2005. (Source: LDS Humanitarian Aid Update Issue 3 - 2006). The Church has been commanding about $9 billion dollars annually in tithes. So clearly the LDS church gives a pittance to ministering to the suffering poor & needy in the world in proportion to its mammon (approx. less than 1% of total income). Temples, eh? Restored gospel? Were the 1st century saints building temples & shopping malls, et al?
"We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. (Bruce McConkie, "Our Relationship with the Lord." 2 March 1982).
I wonder why people would believe in a complete fraud as Joseph Smith. I mean what is going on. These people have been brainwashed to the point that their livelihoods depend on it. They are in bondage.
That is what we should be wondering about. The book of mormon is completely contrary to the bible.
Because it is 20-25% plagiarism of the Christian Bible, it is a very weak, watered down "bible," setting forth nothing more than the Holy Bible does except fiction & fabrication. It does not even contain the madness of most major Mormon doctrine. It is a bait book. Doctrine & Covenants is demonic & cultish. The Book of Abraham is an utter farse book like the Kinderhook Plates. Just the other night an LDS told me that no person is to worship Jesus? Astounding!!!
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In the words of Billy Madison's principal, "What you've just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone [on this board] is now dumber for having [read] it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul."
I feel sorry that LDS are possessed by the spirit of Mormonism. We read Smith's demonic discourse & blasphemous blundering in his Follet sermon & see what this god he describes in the LDS Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith has in common with the eternality & supernality of the One True God. And they claim to be the one true church... what a Recklaw that is.
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I'm sure you're unaware of the variants among the notes of the King Follet Discourse in particularly important places. But I'm sure you don't care and would rather throw out pathetic excuses for research and rebuttals...and add "c"s to my name.
It appears in the LDS publication "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith" - there to read for everyone who will believe its blasphemous blundering. As Christians zealous and jealousy for the glory of God we take strong exception.
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So, I take this to mean that you had no idea that there were variants in the notes, which are not in "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith." A simple "I had no idea" would have sufficed.
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MORMONISM IS NOT A CHRISTIAN RELIGION! BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE NOT LEAD INTO THE DECEPTION OF THIS PROVEN FALSE RELIGION!
I read this book and highly recommend it for everyone who is looking in to this blasphemous religion that can take your soul to hell. The author grew up in the Mormon Church and it is a completely FALSE RELIGION!
Arm yourselves! Read the book: “CAN MITT ROMNEY SERVE TWO MASTERS? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America”
certainlytruthful 3 weeks ago
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1 Corinthians 2:14-16 KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
CalledOutOne913 3 months ago
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1 Corinthians 2:14-16 KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
CalledOutOne913 3 months ago
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1 Corinthians 2:14-16 KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
CalledOutOne913 3 months ago
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1 Corinthians 2:14-16 KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
CalledOutOne913 3 months ago
1 Corinthians 2:14-16 KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
CalledOutOne913 3 months ago
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@humanistheart 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
CalledOutOne913 3 months ago
Lol, a mainstream christian calling Mormonism unrealistic is like a banna calling a cat yellow.
Christians, how ridiculous the mormon denomination seems to you, is how ridiculous your religion sounds to intellegent people.
humanistheart 3 months ago
It is not about what we have done, but what Yeshua did for us. The only begotten Son did'nt come to change the law, but to fullfill it, for us. Grace can not be earned. There can be only one truth, we have it in the Bible the word of God
CalledOutOne913 6 months ago
@CalledOutOne913 " The only begotten Son did'nt come to change the law, but to fullfill it, for us"
Yet, you do not follow 'the law' now, which is a CHANGE. You cannot fulfill laws anyway. Its not how law works. If you think it does try speeding down a highway after having already observed the speed limit once, and telling the Highway Patrol that pulls you over that its cool, you fulfilled the law already. Seriously, good luck with that.
humanistheart 3 months ago
I guess Keith is ready to be saved because he is certainly lost. He does NOT understand Mormon Doctrine. Period. He is certainly preaching the impossible gospel because no one will be saved by this doctrine. I believe that Keith is intentionally distorting the truth of what we (LDS) teach and therefore misleading his parishioners. He is very misinformed, folks.
uhp100 7 months ago
Having perfection as a goal is better than being a dependant loaf for god knows what fake ass "salvation"...
ScipiondeFrance 9 months ago
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@ScipiondeFrance- Wow. What arrogance.
EvidenceMinistries 7 months ago
OPEN HEART,
mormons beleive in the book, yet the doctrines of revelation are somewhat different, conflicttable with the bok of Mormon, yet the today prophet has change it, he change it, no consistency, why is it so inconsistent? Compared to the bible, the bible is consistent, it is God's Word, it never changes, no human goes and says he has a power to change it, and the prophets in the bible never changed the word of God. Why do we need a prophet these days, when we have the bible, God words.
joannelarcher 9 months ago
@joannelarcher The bible is not consistent at all. There are plenty of conflicts, mistakes, and flat out fallacies. You just choose to ignore them or haven't looked hard enough to find them. All you have to do is Google "bible contradictions" or "bible mistakes" and have your eyes opened. A perfect being can't make mistakes, but the bible is full of them because it was written by men, not a god.
SkeksisRule 6 months ago
Open heart, don't close your heart to this truth, open it with God in your heart.
joannelarcher 9 months ago
"Be not like the hypocrites who pray in public. "
SkeksisRule 10 months ago
@SkeksisRule
this is taken out of content
MsJvallejos 6 months ago
i dont understand what is so impossilbe about followings Gods gospel? If its impossible then why did God give it to us?
mikemarco76 11 months ago
its funny a mormon just did a reversal, they used Romans 10:1-3 to prove the Mormon beliefs
IRISHBUDDAFILTH 11 months ago
Religions downgrade the human mind and working thought processes. Telling a child the concept of hell or that any punishments will be put onto them by a deity is cruel and unusual punishment. All religions want their stories spread and to gain followers with no tangible proof of their ridiculous claims. This must be stopped and all thinking people must begin to question and point out the problems with their claims and ridicule publicly how silly they are. It is our duty
party489 1 year ago
@party489 im not wanting to argue, or say you're wrong, but honestly, evolution has no tangible evidence either... no videos of the big bang, nothing to back up the big bang theory, nothing that really shows how the planets formed, how the primordial soup made life, how that reproduced, how one kind of animal changed into another, there are tons of gaps. Christianity has no gaps. So, you have to decide which to have faith in. it looks like you already have....
ekaysthisnthat 1 year ago
@ekaysthisnthat WTF are you talking about. Do you know how much evidence their is for evolution. There is tons and tons of evidence for evolution. Do you know there is a lot of evidence that Joseph Smith was a total fraud. You also know that his stories where just bat shit crazy and no one should respect anyone who has a mind so dull that they could believe any of it. Most not even looking and questioning their thought process critically. You know like science does. Mormons are Morons.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 I am not a mormon; I am a Christian. Mormons belong to a cult, not Christianity. Science cannot prove history. Science is not intended to. The scientific process cannot be retroactive. It is repeatable, observable, and consistent. None of these apply to the formation of the universe. However you believe that it came into existence, you must take it by faith. I believe the account that explains everything. You seem to believe the one that can't.
ekaysthisnthat 11 months ago
@ekaysthisnthat Your cult is no different then the mormons or scientologist. How do you like eating the flesh of Christ and drink of his alcoholic blood as well? When one person suffers from a delusion they are called crazy when many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion. The process of science and being able to build upon the facts we have is so beautiful and has taken us so far as a species. Its Ok to say their is a god but too really think he wrote any book is insane at best.
party489 11 months ago
@party489 I do not believe that I am unreasonable in looking at the world through my "glasses" of the Bible. It is no different than looking through the "glasses" of the idea that there is absolutely no way God created this world. We come full circle. I still stand by the fact that everything in this world can be explained by God and His creativity. I still say that evolution does not come anywhere close to doing the same.
ekaysthisnthat 11 months ago
@ekaysthisnthat Faith is believing something for no reason. You know that is the def. of Faith right? Science is believing something based on as many facts as possible to come up with the best conclusion. Tell me you are nutty enough to believe in prayer too. I bet you are just afraid to think that there is no god or with very high probability not the one of the Holy Babble. Wake up and stop being a sheep and having this mind/society control, superstitious man made crap shoved down your troat
party489 11 months ago
@party489 faith is believing in something when you do not have absolute proof of it. If you define it as being for no reason, then I am not taking it by faith because I do have reasons. Everything in this universe can be explained by God. I believe that evolution has more gaps than substance. Those right there are reasons. What reasons are there to believe in the Big Bang?
ekaysthisnthat 11 months ago
@party489 If an evolutionist scientist found written in the molecules of a rock "There is a God," he would find a way to explain it away or would just ignore it. Evolutionists look at the world from the perspective that God could not have created this universe, therefore, they come to conclusions that seem to "prove" that He didn't. It is circular reasoning one way or the other. There are few unbiased scientists that are willing to put their beliefs aside and look at the facts for what they are.
ekaysthisnthat 11 months ago
Nice T-shirt...........not
myway43 1 year ago
we are saved and we have christ and we take upon us his name every time we take sacrament. why people hate the lds faith i dont understand. we love jesus he is our savior
jonnygotz2343 1 year ago
Alma 24:11
"...it has been ALL THAT WE COULD DO, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to REPENT of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was ALL WE COULD DO to REPENT sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain"
ChristopherMillz 1 year ago
@ChristopherMillz ...and your point is? Seems to me that you are posting a quote from the Book of Mormon without knowing what it is referring to.
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS Hmmm... well.... things are not always as they seem. May the force be with you. :)
ChristopherMillz 1 year ago
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@ChristopherMillz "things are not always as they seem"
Too true! Just when it SEEMS that I've explained a certain point of LDS doctrine/beliefs so that anti-Mormonism types can't possibly misunderstand it, then...well...things are not always as they seem.
(Sorry...couldn't resist that one.) :oP
JediLDS 1 year ago
You have truthfulness in your hands withthe book of mormon. You should read and pray about it. You would not be doing this video. this is so sad. I am sad for you.
Sigmanuwife 1 year ago
Thank God for this truth being delivered. It is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. His finished work is the price paid for sin and faith in Him is all He asks of us. True faith will produce Amen.
OnlyJesusCanSaveYou 1 year ago
"Stop repenting"??? Sounds like something Satan would advocate.
JediMormon 1 year ago 2
@JediMormon Apparently you didn't watch the full video. Trying to bear false witness are we?
praestant8 1 year ago
to repent in a Biblical sense is to change one's mind about their need for a savior. The Mormon idea of repentance is that every time we sin, we have to repent. The problem with this is that if we literally repent in that manner, we must NEVER do that sin again, or we have not truly repented. When a Christian sins, we ask God for forgiveness, which He gives without reservation, then we try to do better, but we still fail sometimes, and that is why Jesus died.
godluvsmormons 1 year ago
@godluvsmormons we love jesus
jonnygotz2343 1 year ago
@jonnygotz2343 yes, but which Jesus do you love, and what do you mean by love? Jesus said "if you love me, keep my commandments" and then He said that the greatest commandment was "Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one Lord....." Mormonism denies this fact straight up, they say that our creator is but one in a long line of gods and that we may become like Him if we are good religious people, but God alone is and always has been God. There is no other God, period.
godluvsmormons 1 year ago
@godluvsmormons "He said that the greatest commandment was "Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one Lord" Need to check your facts, m'man. Jesus said: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment." (Matt 22:37 - 38)
Mormons worship only one God. Whether we believe in the existence of more than one god is immaterial.
JediLDS 1 year ago
No not Satan, Joseph Smith. >Click 28:44
themoodyfamily1 1 year ago
Stop repenting. Wow, That's something the devil would promote. Good message! Not
mastad23 1 year ago
Nice t shirt....NOT
myway43 2 years ago
@myway43 haha I know right!!!
mastad23 1 year ago
Is that what that means? So, you're saying that the time when "we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God" has already come? Can you show me where that time came in the Bible? Have you read the cross-reference to 2 Nephi 25:23? It implies that "after" refers to degree of importance. In fact, Stephen E. Robinson, religion professor at BYU has commented that it could be read as "despite all we can do." That correlates well with the cross-reference.
Godincrease 2 years ago
Since when did BYU professors become apostles? Who has authority to speak for the Lord? LDS Bible dictionary:...grace cannot suffice without total effort. Pres. Benson 1982"What is meant by 'after all we can do'? 'After all we can do' includes extending our best effort. 'After all we can do' includes living His commandments. '...(plus long list of to do's) Faust:We cannot be saved by grace alone, 'for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.'"
redboxgift 1 year ago
This entire sermon relies heavily on a basic logical fallacy called a straw man argument. In order to catch Mormon theology in a logical absurdity, he simply misrepresents Mormon doctrine. The most obvious way he does this is by ignoring that the term "after" has multiple definitions and that the Book of Mormon could be referring to a definition of "after" other than chronological. In fact, merely looking at the cross-references to 2 Nephi 25:23 proves he is not teaching Mormon doctrine.
Jehu1992 2 years ago
@Jehu1992
Another ridiculous attempt by Mormons to twist words. Your reference to 2Nep is a prime example.
"23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."
"After" means after. The Grace comes AFTER all you can do. Have done ALL you can do?
hammer7629 2 years ago
@hammer7629 ... your interpretation is not correct. Mormons know that grace is there. There is no such thing as "well, you didn't do all you could (who ever does, really?), so, sorry about that, but grace doesn't apply to you". The verse means that when we fall short--and we will--grace will be there to take us the rest of the way. In all my years in the church, I've never met one Mormon who thought that they could get to heaven on their own. It's not doctrinal.
JediLDS 1 year ago
Nicely put Jehu. I find it ridiculous that someone who claimed teach the doctrine of Christ would counsel people to stop repenting. Definately a straw man arguement, Joseph smith talked about recieving grace for grace until we are perfected and made whole in Christ. Does he mean to say that we are saved in our sins? I hope not. It is only logical and scriptural to believe that we are saved FROM them. In other words, Jesus changes our heart. What a disgraceful attemp at representing "mormonism."
TheOptimusprime9 2 years ago
@Jehu, Do you get to pick which meaning you want? Who interprets scripture for you? Your prophets. Here's what they say "after all you can do" means: Romney, Ensign "by our own merits; McMullin, Ensign "exert every ounce of energy"; Cook, Ensign "giving all that we can give and doing all that we can do in our present circumstance"; Romney, Ensign ""maximum effort"; Oaks "And what is 'all we can do'? It surely includes repentance and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end."
redboxgift 1 year ago
@redboxgift ...Wow...yet another anti-Mormonism type who presumes to dictate to Mormons what we should be believing and what we shouldn't.
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS ...I am trying to remember, that comment was so long ago, I don't think my point was to tell you what you should or shouldn't believe. That of course is a personal choice. My main point is about Mormon authorities instructing the LDS members about the meaning of 1 Nephi - saved after all you can do. If you are contrary to that teaching of exerting every ounce of effort before salvation is affective, then I rejoice!
redboxgift 1 year ago
@redboxgift Actually, it's 2 Nephi 25:23, and is probably one of the more misunderstood verses in the Book of Mormon, in my opinion. Some equate it to meaning that IF we don't do everything possible ourselves, then we've not satisfied the stipulation in the verse and therefore, grace will not "kick in". Not true. Grace is always there. To me, the "do" part of "after all we can do" implies that we are striving to live the gospel of Christ to the best of our ability.
JediLDS 1 year ago
(cont...) Naturally, we can't live it perfectly, so we're going to fall short. When we do, grace makes up for our lack of, and takes us the rest of the way.
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS ...I get frustrated when trying to figure out LDS doctrine.The doctrine morphs to the situation. Why would I take your opinion for the meaning of 2 Nephi over that of the LDS authorities? I could give you pages of authoritative quotes that are contrary to your opinion. What gets me is that the LDS claim the only true church status in part because of the restored priesthood, and authority-yet you have no problem dismissing quote after quote from those in authority. D&C 1:38
redboxgift 1 year ago
@redboxgift "Another form of misrepresentation is to claim something is official LDS doctrine when it may merely be an individual opinion or even speculation. The official doctrine of the Latter-day Saints is clearly defined and readily accessible to all. Doctrines are official if they are found in the standard works of the Church, if they are sustained by the Church in general conference (D&C 26:2), or if they are taught by the First Presidency as a presidency. (cont...)
JediLDS 1 year ago
@cont... Policies and procedures are official whenever those who hold the keys and have been sustained by the Church to make them declare them so. Other churches claim the right to define and interpret their own doctrines and policies and to distinguish between official church teachings and the opinions of individual members. Surely the Latter-day Saints must be allowed the same privilege." (From The New Era, a church publication, 1998)
JediLDS 1 year ago
@cont... "If I should say something which is contrary to that which is written in the standard works of the Church, and accepted by the Authorities of the Church and approved by the Church generally, no one is under obligation to accept it. Everything that I say and everything that any other person says must square itself with that which the Lord has revealed, or it should be rejected."
Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1943, Third Day—Morning Meeting, p.97
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS This is another example of morphing to fit whatever situation you want. What about Benson? His 14 points of following a prophet don't line up with JF Smith's view. You follow JF Smith's views-no one is under obligation to accept it. How convenient! You claim the right to interpret/establish doctrine and in the very next post you also claim the right to dismiss it. What is the whole point then to having so called prophets who speak for God? (If only I could work my taxes like that!)
redboxgift 1 year ago
@JediLDS" One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."-- Mark 12:28-30
godluvsmormons 1 year ago
@JediLDS Right, and is that on official position coming from the New Era? If so, the pages of quotes that speak of "after all you can do" meaning- after exerting all present effort and then grace is effective- comes from "those who hold the keys, speaking in official capacity." You muddy the waters with your opinion of 2 Nephi as posted below. Do your quotes somehow negate D&C 1:38-because if that verse is correct, then when you speak contrary to His servants, you speak contrary to Him.
redboxgift 1 year ago
you talk about prayer, and after all you can do. well let me ask you something, if there's more we can do, than why arent you praying every single night and morning and just as often as possible to know whether the LDS church is wrong or not? because i promise "if" you do, with real intent, meaning you act on your answer, than your answer will be "yes, it is true."
Tazhansen11 2 years ago
Jesus is true, not any church. The word church means "the called out ones" in Greek, and has absolutely nothing to do with any earthly organization. As a matter of fact, Jesus said "my kingdom is NOT of this world" so any "church" claiming an earth based, man centered hierarchy is NULL and false. Have you ever prayed and asked God if Satanism is true? Buddhism? Hinduism? The Baptist church? If not, why? Jesus is true... Jesus, not a church, not a Joseph, not a Brigham, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
Have you ever prayed and asked whether loving your neighbor is true? If not, why? Because Jesus is true? But what, then, does "Jesus being true" refer to if he taught us to love our neighbor? And what if he taught us (through revelation) to set up a church, just like he did in the New Testament? "Of this earth" does NOT mean "on this earth." It is a reference to corruption and worldliness, not simply being physically on the earth. Indeed, Jesus contradicts himself if that's what he means.
Jehu1992 2 years ago
According to godluvsmormons, the scriptural meaning of church "has absolutely nothing to do with any earthly organization." Yet Luke 11:49, 1 Cor 12:28, Eph 4:11 and multitudes of other scriptures refer to an organized church on the earth personally set up by and led by Jesus Christ. Since a perfect Christ cannot contradict himself, we can conclude that godluv's interpretation of Christ's words is completely false. (Otherwise we are left to conclude Christ set up a false church in the NT.)
Jehu1992 2 years ago
Luke 11:49 "Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute." Not only does this verse not even mention the church, it is referring to the prophets of the past, before the church even existed. In first Corinthians 12:28, it is merely saying that among the people of the church, God placed people with prophetic gifts, as well as other gifts, not that the church has to have these men to exist-continued--
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, & some to be pastors & teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up UNTIL we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God & become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." This means that God would not allow the church to be without these gifts, UNTIL they were not needed, hence, prophets are no longer needed
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
@godluvsmormons
umm, you really think we have all rached a unity of faith?? it says untill we reach a unity of faith, I don't think that has happened yet.
boringify 1 year ago
no, I do not think we have, however, that would still defeat Mormonism, because according to them, the church fell away (i.e. there were no more prophets and apostles) shortly after the last apostle died. If we are to take that verse as it is written, then there would be apostles UNTIL we reach a unity of faith. Since we have not, then it must remain true that there have always been apostles.
godluvsmormons 1 year ago
you "like to use the words that they say" against them, because you're too worried about stuff that frankly you should be. like proving everyone wrong.
Tazhansen11 2 years ago
interesting i think, not that i'm trying to bash, so i'm sorry if it sounds that way but, do you relise that you've contridicted yourself, because you made the implication that Christians dont bash, and yet here you are, bashing and teaching people how to bash the LDS church. lol, i just think it's funny that's all.
Tazhansen11 2 years ago
"You loved your neighbor your entire life!"
"Yes, Jesus. I love you. I want to follow you because that is what you do."
"BUT MY LOVE IS SUFFICIENT. It's either ALL ABOUT ME or it's all about you! Off to hell with you!"
THAT'S blasphemy. God is righteous. No, he REALLY is. Pray to a righteous God, not an evil one like you are now.
Godincrease 2 years ago
"Is Jesus one of many necessary things that you need for forgiveness... or is he, alone, sufficient?" Biblically, this is a monstrously false dichotomy. There would be no need to invoke "the name of Jesus" (nor even use the phrase "in the name of Jesus") if all the OTHER things Christ teaches weren't necessary for our salvation. The reason is that the phrase "in the name of Jesus," in effect, is invoking the trustworthiness of Jesus' teachings, which includes many, many things, like love, etc.
Godincrease 2 years ago
"I've saved up all my pennies for this new bike!" "How many pennies?" "Ten!" "Honey, that's not enough. It's a $100 bike! I'll tell you what, if you give me all ten cents and a hug, I'll pay for the rest." Hmmm... so the fact that the girl could only pay ten cents for a hundred dollar bike means her dad didn't pay for her bike out of grace! Wow! Stupid either-or theological arguments that can't be backed by scripture or logic. Drop 'em.
Godincrease 2 years ago
A denial of the need for works is a denial of the very definition of a covenant. A covenant, by definition, is NEVER unilateral. It is always a two-way agreement. If one party does X, then the other agrees to to X. Indeed, the very definition of the "new testament" means "new covenant" and is a reference to Jeremiah. If works aren't required in your theology then you're denying the "new TESTAMENT in Christ's blood" simply by definition.
Godincrease 2 years ago
His claim that LDS theology requires people to stop ALL YOUR SINNING BEFORE YOU DIE is patently false. It ignores some pretty central LDS doctrines. Either this guy is ignorant of the MOST BASIC LDS DOCTRINE or he is lying. It ignores the entire doctrine of eternal progression, the millenium and the ultimate establishment of the kingdom of God as LDS doctrine sees it! NOT A MINOR OMISSION!!!!!!
Godincrease 2 years ago
If Jesus is sufficient, then we wouldn't need his grace. Christ isn't his grace anymore than I am my kindness. Therefore, this man's logic betrays his own doctrine. Not only that, the only logical conclusion of his statement that "Jesus is enough" (whatever that means) is that Christ was teaching a false gospel. After all, he preached baptism, he "gave some apostles, some prophets, some teachers, etc.," he taught people to love one another, etc., etc., etc. Preaching a false Jesus. No thx.
Godincrease 2 years ago
So, if we're not free to sin if we're "under grace," and our very nature as a human being is sinful, then there is no choice but to sin forever.
The idea of "grace, not works" is not taught in the Bible. It's taught by a man--namely Martin Luther--who never even claimed to be a prophet (i.e., he is privately interpreting doctrine).
Godincrease 2 years ago
LDS doctrine DOES differ on the idea that "works and grace" are mutually exclusive. However, to be "saved by works" would require a person to NEVER SIN ONCE. There's a big difference between (1) requiring a person to do some things to qualify for God's grace and (2) never needing God's grace in the first place. This is actually what Paul's preaching means ("All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.") Mormons don't believe they're SAVED by works, just that we have to DO works.
Godincrease 2 years ago
Actually LDS doctrine is similar to traditional Christian doctrine on sin and grace, except traditional Christian doctrine is incapable of accounting for the idea that "no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of heaven." This man's preaching reveals the truly "impossible gospel": Christ apparently died so mankind can sin forever if his eternal nature is sinful. Christ's grace and atonement changes it. It's called proximate perfection vs. eternal perfection (see Neal A. Maxwell).
Godincrease 2 years ago
This is a typical case of superimposing LDS doctrine on non-LDS doctrine. It is a misrepresentation. It's actually easy to (even intentionally) misinterpret anybody's religion through their scriptural text. It's not rocket science. This guy is misleading people about doctrinal facts(which have an objective basis in the prophetic interpretation). The scriptures are of no private interpretation. The actual doctrine is insightful, beautiful and casts light on the Bible and Christ's grace.
Godincrease 2 years ago
STOP REPENTING his T shirt says. This guy is not just an anti mormon, he is anti-Christian. He is preaching the impossible gospel of apostates, those who have dreamed up ANOTHER GOSPEL as spoken of in Galatians.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
When Jesus says to REPENT, and this man says "stop repenting" you must turn and run away from such.
2 Tim. 3: 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"When Jesus says to REPENT, and this man says "stop repenting" you must turn and run away from such."
I take it that you didn't listen to his explanation of his shirt.
Tell me, when a man repents of a sin, does he do more of that sin?
jakedevon 2 years ago
I don't have 60 minutes to give to an anti-mormon video that could have said it in ONE minute.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
MormonAnswerman ,
You are an idiot to prejudge a video without even watching it, based on what somebody has on their T-shirt. Clearly, you aren't very objective if you didn't listen to see what the guy had say for longer than a minute...No wonder you always ban people from your video page for the small things. I guess it makes you feel important, while at the same time your living in denial.
cayetanohawaii 2 years ago
@mormonanswerman ya show me arclagical evedince tht the book of mormon is true give me the historcal fact n tell me the freemasonry tht go on in mormonism n why did joey smith have 33 wives
jammin18stacy 1 year ago
anyone who puts STOP REPENTING on their T Shirt is sending the wrong message no matter how you spin it, or tell them to "watch the whole video." What?? An hour just to see why he is playing games? Nah.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"anyone who puts STOP REPENTING on their T Shirt..."
Well, mormonANSWERman, you didn't answer my question; which was:
When a man repents of a sin, does he do more of that sin?
jakedevon 2 years ago
Yes, and the personal works-righteousness that Mormon & Watchtower Society members typically trust in is well nigh as repugnant & offensive to the Beautiful God as the religious leaders were to Jesus when he walked this earth, & for which He various times had such scathing words.
Repent people & make your boast in the Lord. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
Hey! mormonANSWERman, I asked you a question.
When a man repents of a sin, does he do more of that sin?
(Really, change your name or start answering questions.)
jakedevon 2 years ago
Well, since Reklaw was so easily defeated on doctrinal questions, perhaps another LDS person will step up.
The question is: Why do the LDS not even attempt to follow the 4th commandment, if, as Reklaw says, one must "absolutely" follow the fourth commandment?
jakedevon 2 years ago
but its imposible to not sin, no one can do it,
Quitenno 2 years ago
jakedevon, you don't "defeat" anybody, you just misquote them. Misquote them often enough that you try to make it look like they said something else. I guess you are just a liar, because you did this to me also on another video. The ? is why do you do this?
btw, I really think your "good o meter" video is absolutely satanic.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"Misquote them often enough that you try to make it look like they said something else."
You've false accused me of this before. When I asked for example of me "misquoting" you, you failed to respond.
I suspect that this is just more slander from you because, again, you didn't give any examples of where I supposedly misquoted.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"Later, jake. I have no time to waste..."
Another great example of how easy it is to defeat mormen when debating doctrine.
Actually, did you notice that in our brief exchange how Reklaw refused to really engage in doctrine?
I guess that he knows better because the Holy Spirit will "give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist." (Luke 21:15)
jakedevon 2 years ago
Later, jake. I have no time to waste on shameless liars.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"Later, jake. I have no time to waste on shameless liars."
I guess that you don't have any time to "waste" defending LDS doctrine also.
Have a good day.
And thanks for all the laughs.
jakedevon 2 years ago
Reklaw008,
this jakedevon guy did the same thing to my statements, turning them into something else. You are doing the right thing by just turning away.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"I really think your "good o meter" video is absolutely satanic."
The fact that mormons hate it is a really good sign that it gets it right.
What don't you like about it?
jakedevon 2 years ago
I hate it because it is such a lie. God doesn't work that way, brushing off the good works of people just because they didn't give Jesus all the credit.
What kind of a God would require us to give all the credit for what we do to someone else? What kind of a God would require us to be mind numbed robots that have no free agency? What kind of a God would require us to have no agency. I want no such God. Thank God that "god" does NOT exist.
He loves when we make right CHOICES.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
CHOOSE ye this day whom ye will serve. That's BIBLICAL and you can take it to the bank.
Its all about choice, repentance, correcting course, and just look at how Jesus' Apostles PROGRESSED as they started out WEAK and ended up dieing STRONG. There was significant change from bad excuse making christians, like many today, to a very perfect state with Jesus' Apostles. That is plain from the record.
Thomas Monson, for instance, is a very perfect man, same with all the Apostles. Look at them.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"What kind of a God would require us to have no agency."
There was nothing in the video that even implied that people don't have freewill.
Quite the opposite, do you think that the Lord God forced the last guy to do all the evil things in that file? No! That guy did those evil acts on his own volition.
jakedevon 2 years ago
Don't try to justify that awful video. It clearly says that no matter what we do, Jesus saved only the one guy, and all the rest went to hell. Nice "jesus" there.
and the guy who gets to heaven is the one with the most SINFUL file. Most shameful.
No wonder anti mormons love this idea. All the good people go to hell, and the sinful ones are saved. Real justice there...
Thank God that God is a God of JUSTICE.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"and the guy who gets to heaven is the one with the most SINFUL file."
It is inferred in the video that, everyone who went left didn't rely on the Lord Jesus for salvation; they relied on their own works as they explained.
The point of the video is to show that the people that go to be with the Lord do NOT deserve it.
The Lord Jesus came for the sinners, not the righteous. (Matt 9: 13)
Not by our own works, lest we boast.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"Thomas Monson, for instance, is a very perfect man,"
You know this because you live with him? c'mon dude, don't be such a push over.
the apostles were not mormons.
OrangeLight08 2 years ago
"What kind of a God would require us to give all the credit for what we do to some else?"
The video only infers that the Lord Jesus get ALL the credit for salvation, not all works. The people that went left got full credit for their works.
The guy who went right gave the Lord Jesus full credit for his salvation. The guy's evil works were tossed (as will mine be when I get to heaven).
jakedevon 2 years ago
It is amazing how easy mormen are to defeat when debating doctrine.
I guess that is because the Holy Spirit will "give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist."
(Luke 21:15)
jakedevon 2 years ago
And it is amazing how easy is to declare victory when one covers his eyes and ears and yells "nu uh!" until the opponent realizes he is wasting his time. You are truly pathetic, jake.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"You are truly pathetic, jake."
If you can't beat the message, insult the messenger.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"If you can't beat the message"
I already did.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"I already did."
Lol!
If that is true, then why did you attack the messenger?
Ha, ha!
jakedevon 2 years ago
Because you lied about me. If pointing out the truth is an "attack," oh well.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"Because you lied about me."
No, I was telling the truth.
You seem so unable to answer my question ("Why do the LDS not even attempt to follow the 4th commandment, if, as Reklaw claims, one must "absolutely" follow the commandments?") that you falsely declare my question to be a red herring.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"No, I was telling the truth."
The way you represented my comment on "harmonization" was the truth? It wasn't twisted in any way?
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"The way you represented my comment on "harmonization" was the truth?"
Yes.
jakedevon 2 years ago
How, when I clearly stated that if you equate harmonization with making stuff up, then we don't harmonize in that way i.e. we don't make stuff up?
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"How, when I clearly stated that if you equate harmonization with making stuff up,"
Of course you make any claim that you want, but that doesn't make it true.
The LDS claim that there are marriages in heaven, but the Lord Jesus said the opposite. He said: "in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage,"
That is a great example of the LDS just making stuff up.
jakedevon 2 years ago
This is avoiding the question of "how." You blatantly lied and you know it. No shame either. That is all that needed to be clarified. Readers can make up their own minds. Once again, what I actually said: "If by harmonzie, you mean make up a meaning to fit your 16th century Protestant invention, then you are absolutely right: Mormons don't do that." What jake says: "Reklaw says Mormons don't harmonize." Readers can decide.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"You blatantly lied and you know it."
I blatantly told the truth and I know it. (I suspect that our readers know it also.)
jakedevon 2 years ago
"what I actually said: "If by harmonzie, you mean make up a meaning to fit your 16th century Protestant invention,"
You said other things on this subject as well.
You also told me that LDS don't "bother" to harmonize.
Did you forget that you said that?
(Ha, ha! This is so much fun.)
jakedevon 2 years ago
"I think that you are making the mistake of elevating scripture above scripture. "
No, actually we call it context, as in reading it in context. Evangelical "Gospel" involves cutting and pasting and assiduously avoiding reading on in the same letter or chapter. No person can read Romans and come away saying it is only faith and no good deeds. That is, if you read the whole thing. But if I take the completely random "let scripture interpret scripture" way, I can be an Evangelical.
answeringantimormons 2 years ago
"No, actually we call it context,"
I know that this is what you call it, but what it actually is is elevating scripture above scripture.
You see, what Christians are to do is harmonize scripture, not ignore any scripture that contradict one's doctrine as the LDS do.
A good example: you said that Christ's gift saved everyone; "No conditions.", you said. Then I pointed out that we get crops with sweat (Gen 3:17). And you ignored scripture to keep your flawed doctrine.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"No, actually we call it context,"
Remember, you are arguing that we live in the garden of eden because you say that the Lord Jesus undid the fall of Adam with, as you say, "no conditions".
You really should learn to harmonize the scripture.
Well, you really should believe the Word of God first, and then learn to harmonize.
jakedevon 2 years ago
Jake,
Who wouldn't step forward to claim it? And are you not then stating that they must 'do' something to claim the gift, other than just faith? Since James notes that "devils believe", I have to think that even us dumb Mormons would sign up for a free gift from the guy we do in fact believe is the son of God.
What does accepting this gift entail? Do we need a theological mastery of the Trinity? BTW, Rom 5:18 has no conditional language. Christ's gift undid Adam's fall. No conditions.
answeringantimormons 2 years ago
"BTW, Rom 5:18 has no conditional language."
Lol!
I think that you are arguing that all people are now sinless and live in the garden of eden.
"Christ's gift undid Adam's fall."
So, you think that nobody has to sweat to bring in crops? (Gen 3:17)
Really, you should try getting your theology from the Bible. (Of course if you did that, then you wouldn't stay LDS.)
jakedevon 2 years ago
Jakey,
You could always actually read the passage as it is written. Read Romans 5 with Romans 1,2,3, 4, 6, 7 and 8, as it was intended at a minimum to be read, and Voile, you see that ALL have been redeemed. BUT, they retain their redemption through obedience, Rom 6:16,22-23. Read the Bible and follow the teachings of LDS leaders. Elder Holland's talk was awesome on Sunday. You could learn a lot about salvation.
answeringantimormons 2 years ago
"You could always actually read the passage as it is written."
I think that you are making the mistake of elevating scripture above scripture. That is not how Christians are to evaluate scripture.
'Here is my doctrine. Please ignore any scripture that proves my doctrine incorrect.'
Christians are taught to harmonize. Reklaw says that LDS don't "bother" to harmonize.
I guess that you agree with Reklaw.
jakedevon 2 years ago
Liar. Nevermind what I actually said: "If by harmonize, you mean make up a meaning to fit your 16th century Protestant invention, then you are absolutely right: Mormons don't do that." This was 3 months ago. Despite numerous corrections, you have continued to misrepresent what I said. Not only do you have no idea what you are talking about, but you have no shame in lying. Stay classy.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"If by harmonize, you mean make up a meaning to fit your 16th century Protestant invention,"
Firstly, I am not making the Bible mean anything. It means what It means.
Secondly, I am not protestant.
Thirdly, I was just referring to the fact that mormen seem to avoid answering questions when the questions get too hard. (A good example: Why do LDS not even try to obey the 4th commandment, if, as Reklaw says, one must "absolutely" obey the commandments.)
jakedevon 2 years ago
"I was just referring to the fact that mormen seem to avoid answering questions when the questions get too hard."
They avoid addressing logical fallacies like red herrings.
"That makes it much easier for me to win the debate."
I won a long time ago. Answers such as "You can make the Greek say whatever you want," "It is all of the devil," "that isn't what the AV says" aren't good answers. Fail.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"They avoid addressing logical fallacies like red herrings."
and
"You can make the Greek say what ever you want,""It is all of the devil," "that isn't what the AV says" aren't good answers."
Unanswered questions don't just go away.
Notice, readers, that Reklaw just declares my answers as "not good" and that my legitimate questions as "red herrings". I guess that he does this so that he can claim that he doesn't have to deal with them.
Fail and fail.
jakedevon 2 years ago
Comment removed
Reklaw008 2 years ago
Readers can decide for themselves if they think those 3 examples are "good answers." I don't think they are because they don't refute anything. They are subjective nonsense. Readers can also decide for themselves if your "legitimate question" was a red herring or not. Repeating logical fallacies don't make them any less fallacious.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
I wonder if you even know what a red herring is...
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"I wonder if you even know what a red herring is..."
Ah, another insult.
'Look, Jake may be so ignorant that he doesn't even know what a red herring is!'
If you can't beat the message, then insult the messenger.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"Ah, another insult."
Another dodge so you don't have to answer whether or not your representation of my "harmonization" statement was twisted or not.
Though, I do wonder if you know what a red herring is.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"They avoid addressing logical fallacies like red herrings."
They seem to also avoid answering questions when questions get too hard.
You falsely claim that my question ("Why do the LDS not even attempt to follow the 4th commandment, if, as Reklaw claims, that one must follow the commandments?") even though it is a legitimate question.
Why do the LDS not follow the 4th commandment? (Reklaw: 'That's a red herring!' -"If it's a red herring, then you're saying that they do follow the 4th?")
jakedevon 2 years ago
"They seem to also avoid answering questions when questions get too hard."
Kind of like avoiding questions regarding the truthfulness of a statement...
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"Kind of like avoiding questions regarding the truthfulness of a statement."
Strawman.
I have not done that.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"I have not done that"
You haven't answered this: "The way you represented my comment on "harmonization" was the truth? It wasn't twisted in any way?"
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"You haven't answered this:"
You just posted it a few minutes ago!
'Look everyone! Jake refuses to answer my questions! Look! LOOK!'
Lol!
Accusing me of doing the very thing that you are doing.
Ha, ha! *snort* That's funny.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"You just posted it a few minutes ago!"
Yet, you had no problem answering posts that I had posted after it, which I have no doubt you would have continued to do if I hadn't called you out on it. Like I said, I'm not here debating doctrine anymore. I'm here clearing my name.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"Yet, you had no problem answering posts..."
Now Reklaw seems to be claiming that if I don't answer his questions in a way that he likes, then I am doing something wrong.
Ha, ha!
jakedevon 2 years ago
Doesn't change the fact that that is what you did.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"I'm not here debating doctrine anymore."
I don't blame you for not wanting to defend LDS doctrine. There is just no way that it can stand up to scrutiny.
jakedevon 2 years ago
If you say so, jake
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"I'm not here debating doctrine anymore. I'm here clearing my name."
So, which is more important to you; your doctrine or you name?
I only ask because you really don't spend much time defending you doctrine, and now you it seems that you are putting yourself ahead of your doctrine.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"Liar."
I know that you want this to be about me and not about doctrine. That makes it much easier for me to win the debate.
Let us take the mormen false doctrine of eternal marriages for example.
When the Lord Jesus was asked about the sealing of a woman to a man, the Lord Jesus answered: "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures... in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage," (Mat 22)
But the LDS say the opposite of the Lord Jesus.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"I know that you want this to be about me..."
Not really. I just want you to stop misrepresenting what I said like I've asked you the past 3 months. However, you continually twist my words after MANY corrections. I am not here to debate anymore. I am here to clear my name and not allow you to get away with twisting my words. Until you stop and apologize, you will continue to be a liar. If you don't want me to "make it about you," then don't "make it about me" by misrepresenting me.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
"Read the Bible and follow the teachings of LDS leaders."
No thanks. I'll just try to stick with following the teachings of the Bible.
Remember, the Christians believe the Bible when it says "For by grace are ye saved through faith... Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph 2:8,9) And we know how to harmonize that with James 2.
jakedevon 2 years ago
How amazing...a ministry organized for strawmen!
allzago 2 years ago
The Mormon church administered about $830 million in humanitarian aid between 1985 and 2005. (Source: LDS Humanitarian Aid Update Issue 3 - 2006). The Church has been commanding about $9 billion dollars annually in tithes. So clearly the LDS church gives a pittance to ministering to the suffering poor & needy in the world in proportion to its mammon (approx. less than 1% of total income). Temples, eh? Restored gospel? Were the 1st century saints building temples & shopping malls, et al?
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
So in effect to the general populace they say, eat, drink, & be merry, for you will be saved anyway.
Reklaw retorted: "Lie and a half. Apparently, you have been ignoring the debates I've been having regarding faith, works, and grace."
Who then according to Reklaw and Mormonisn is saved?
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
"We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. (Bruce McConkie, "Our Relationship with the Lord." 2 March 1982).
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This Walker guy does not impress me at all. His T-shirt alone disqualifies him, "Stop repenting". Not impressed at all.
myway43 2 years ago
I wonder why people would believe in a complete fraud as Joseph Smith. I mean what is going on. These people have been brainwashed to the point that their livelihoods depend on it. They are in bondage.
That is what we should be wondering about. The book of mormon is completely contrary to the bible.
shayneby 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"The book of mormon is completely contrary to the bible."
I beg to differ
Reklaw008 2 years ago
Because it is 20-25% plagiarism of the Christian Bible, it is a very weak, watered down "bible," setting forth nothing more than the Holy Bible does except fiction & fabrication. It does not even contain the madness of most major Mormon doctrine. It is a bait book. Doctrine & Covenants is demonic & cultish. The Book of Abraham is an utter farse book like the Kinderhook Plates. Just the other night an LDS told me that no person is to worship Jesus? Astounding!!!
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
In the words of Billy Madison's principal, "What you've just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone [on this board] is now dumber for having [read] it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul."
Reklaw008 2 years ago
According to Reklaw (source duly considered).
I feel sorry that LDS are possessed by the spirit of Mormonism. We read Smith's demonic discourse & blasphemous blundering in his Follet sermon & see what this god he describes in the LDS Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith has in common with the eternality & supernality of the One True God. And they claim to be the one true church... what a Recklaw that is.
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I'm sure you're unaware of the variants among the notes of the King Follet Discourse in particularly important places. But I'm sure you don't care and would rather throw out pathetic excuses for research and rebuttals...and add "c"s to my name.
Reklaw008 2 years ago
It appears in the LDS publication "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith" - there to read for everyone who will believe its blasphemous blundering. As Christians zealous and jealousy for the glory of God we take strong exception.
I hope you are enjoying your summer.
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
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So, I take this to mean that you had no idea that there were variants in the notes, which are not in "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith." A simple "I had no idea" would have sufficed.
Reklaw008 2 years ago