Buy Nothing Day 2008- Priceless

[Apesduh]

that was stupid

[XtremePacifist]

The only product that the USA makes is consumption. If the people stop shopping the US Empire falls. No money in your wallet? Charge it. Maxed out credit cards?

Go get another one. Denied? Game over. The US Empire: USA Inc., is over

[Andrew5544]

How did we go from using 30% of the world's resources to 80%?

[deeblite]

I don't recall where I got that number from- I think it was something on the adbusters web page. I didn't really research this- that wasn't the point of the assignment.

[shockolanu]

By wasting.

[clambii]

More advertising spending. Less identity and a need to have more than "them".

[paultheuglydog]

How can people stop buying stuff? We need to buy stuff to live.

[deeblite]

First, buy nothing day isn't about never buying anything ever again. It's about not buying stuff on a single day in order to make a point. Second, saying you HAVE to buy stuff in order to live is just not true- people survived for thousands of years before currency even existed.

[p0rq]

Yes, we rode around on gold-plated Unicorns and drank from rivers of honey. We worked four hour days, were never ill and had a low death rate amongst children and the elderly.

Read a history book deeblite. We may have 'survived' for thousands of years, but you, me, and about 30% of the population would probably be dead in one of the periodic famines or plagues, if not being forced to fight in wars for our feudal lords.

[clambii]

When we were an egrarian society we worked far less. We had more time to spend on things that mattered. Also, you're talking about the middle ages in Europe. Things were different everywhere else at that point, and currency WAS in use at that point.

[p0rq]

I'm confused... are you trying to assert that all the time /before/ currency was better than the time after it? And, that the problems I just described were exclusive to Europe in the Middle Ages?

[clambii]

No, I'm trying to say that the advent of modern capitalism is the cause of the 40 hour work week and the exploitation of the worker. Modern type currency was merely a standardization of trade. We technically had currency even before "coins" and "dollars". No, other peoples had disease and famine, but some modern capitalist societies still do today. Standard currency did not solve any problems. A lot of the problems in the world come from America's greed.

[p0rq]

Exploitation? What exploitation? Before the advent of capitalism, we were barely surviving above subsistence. We didn't work any more than that because it was barely possible to do so, whilst still surviving.

I won't disagree that currency is the standardisation of trade. And I think it's a good thing. Morally.

I am not making the claim that 'currency' cured disease and famine. I'm claiming that capitalism did. Disease exists, but nothing like in pre-capitalist times - famine is gone for us.

[clambii]

The exploitation is using labor as a profit tool. Paying less than a person's time and labor is actually worth in order to maximise profits is exploitation. Egrarian societies didn't work a lot because they didn't have to. They were able to provide their own food and shelter without having to sell their time. They worked hard for about four months and lived off of that for the rest of the year. Capitalism has CAUSED famine. The Great Depression is one example. We're almost there again.

[clambii]

Also, capitalism is the reason everyone is freaking out financially right now. I'm not saying older systems are better, I'm saying we must always progress. Stagnation will surely cause failure, just like history.

[p0rq]

The protection of individual rights does not stagnate. But the belief in its importance does, hence the growth in government intervention in the economy, which brought us to where we are today.

[clambii]

Right, but even with government intervention the distribution of wealth is ridiculous. Now, when I was talking about the exploitation of workers I was referring to the fact that any employee is denied the true worth of their labor. Someone at McDonald's makes almost four times their actual wage as profit for the company. Thus, exploitation. The way the FREE market works is by imposing economic risk on the poor and never actually taking risk themselves because the rich are padded with funds.

[p0rq]

Pay less then their time and labour is worth... to whom? These people didn't leave agriculture for the fun of it - they did it because it meant they got paid more, and could afford more than just bare subsistence.

Individuals in agrarian societies could barely provide enough food or shelter for themselves. They worked hard and couldn't produce any more in those four months, and had barely enough to live on, leading to famines.

I will not continue this discussion because you are just lying.

[clambii]

To workers! They left agriculture because the industrial revolution destroyed their trade. Yes, this discussion is useless. You're obviously a fan of capitalism and now you're claiming that I'm lying in your frustration. In a globalized economy the effects stretch to everyone. There are people starving and dying everywhere even while the bourgeosie continue to profit. Again, you seem to be referring to Feudalism. Capitalism is the new Feudalism.

[eggsparker]

where are you getting this? who was saved by capitalism?

[clambii]

Actually I WAS trying to say that the problems you described were NEARLY exclusive to European Feudalism.

[florkgagga]

You are bringing in some nice arguments, which we could discuss about but you don't really USE them. Maybe because you don't understand the VARIOUS causes of famine etc. When people died of famine before capitalism "saved" them it was not because of poor work but because of natural disasters. Some of it could have been prevented, yes, with better education but that's where the church comes in...

[clambii]

No, don't need to buy useless crap EVERY DAY. Convenience stores prove that people cannot stop spending money! Do you need a bag of chips? No. Do you need new shoes? Probably not. Newest cell phone. No. Bigger television? Not at all. Food? Yes. Shelter? Yes. Water? Yes. Soda? No.

[singinggerbils]

Funny how many things from this commercial seem so familiar. Even that seal in the first shot. And especially that girl. But why is it Buy Nothing Day 2008? Aren't we still in 2007?

[deeblite]

Yes, but Buy Nothing Day 2007 had already passed when this was being made =)