I am a naturalist, not a theist. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that religion is (at least for most people) a defense mechanism (denial). Reality is full of suffering and that is why people deny it. The scientific studies weigh in favor of religious people being happier. I have been very frustrated with religious people but the truth is that we can not offer a more appealing idea unless neuroscience revolutionizes our brains to experience more pleasure.
I've said this many times, if not for religion most of us atheist youtubers would be science enthusiasts and political activists. This seems to be what is happening now as the religious haven't come up with any new argument that doesn't fail the second it comes out of their mouth in the last 500 year. I prefer secular humanism as a replacement.
The name you are looking for is "naturalistic atheism"--BUT embracing naturalistic atheism--can not logically lead to one emotional response or another. Personally,if I became an atheist I would be a nihilist-which to be would be quite depressing.
Does reality need a positive spin? I dont see how you can add more positive to atheism then living a true life without playing games. Its not for everyone thats for sure, you can see how many people still need that crutch that religion provides. My parents are those, no matter how I try to show them they cant accept reality.
I do think the videos on youtube are a good thing, or a positive thing, it gets the message out to those that are questioning faith or religion and gets them answers.
I think, when you called it "spiritual" or "religious", what you may have meant is "sacredness". I was really baffled when I recently saw the interview with Sean Dorrance Kelly on the Colbert Report (Feb 2nd 2011). I can only agree with him - lack of the sacred in a society and for oneself is detrimental to ones life.
Thats when I noticed that I couldn't stop thinking about religion because it so blatantly contradicts values sacred to myself - like curiosity and openness of mind.
You talk about a positive message from atheism. Have you seen this video? I think it makes a great point about how atheism frees you from the slavery of religion. It talks about how our greatest worth is that we are part of a larger universe, that we and the galaxies and apocalyptic forces out there are the same thing. Stars died so we can live.
Check out "Science Saved My Soul" by philhellenes
Hope you enjoy it as much as I did :) And keep up the great work, always fun to see you onlime!
@SolRosenberg84 Yes, it was also amazing. I think I was hit harder by SSMS though, because for a long time I had struggled with my feelings of insignificance in the universe. But then I think of how a star's death allowed me to be created, and that what I'm looking at when I look at my sprained thumb (volleyball...) I'm looking at things that have been around for 13+ billion years. That really makes me think and sometimes gives me chills :) I love the feeling of being this universe.
@LaerenMisha religion didnt create slaves only humans did the pope did alot of idiots did who basically took something that was good and turned it upside down for cash and something ointless. As for religion IF God is true He says that Christianity can never be destroyed I guess we all believer and non believer just have to wait and see wont we?
@Mider999 No, actually religion is set up to enslave the mind to the idea that we are owned and created beings who owe our lives to something that claims ownership over us. That's slavery, pure and simple. The bible constantly expounds the notion that we are owned by God, and God can dictate whatever it wants to us and we must obey. I don't see any other definition of this state of being than slavery.
@LaerenMisha Im not enslaved by anyone. I think that you try to enslave MY mind to your notion that i have to follow your beliefs. Why should i do that? I can do whatever i want and i do whatever i want so how am i enslaved. There are alot of good people who are religious you must only focus on bad people or i dont know what. I have met alot of atheists and alot of them were not very nice they were vicous people who made fun of anyone and everything who didnt fit there beliefs i dont do that
@Mider999 Actually, I am not encumbered by beliefs in the supernatural. Therefore, I am not trying to get you to believe anything. You claim you can do whatever you want, but if you follow a religion, you can't. So therefore you are not free. You are enslaved by your belief system, and if it is one of the 40,000 christian sects in the US alone, you are enslaved to the bible and its teachings that you are not your own, that you are owned by a god, and it can do what it wants to you = slavery
@LaerenMisha Oh and I've met a few Xtians that are terrible, terrible people. Westboro Baptist Church ring a bell? Terrible, terrible people. Log in thine eye before splinter in mine.
@LaerenMisha mate if you wanna get technical i dont believe in absolute freedom. Your enslaved by the laws of your country and other things such as age and such. As for me doing what i want i dont know what you mean. What exactly do you think i wanna do that i dont? Do you think i cant drink or smoke or go out nad have unprotected sex? I dont like the taste of smoking or alochal. And i wasnt given the body of a male model or the face thus i cant really treat women like whores
@LaerenMisha I spoke to an atheist just yesturday telling him about my problems with depression and how i couldnt change some things with my body he said well maybe suicide was NOT the worst option. Lol is that the future with atheists? Oh well does life really suck that much well maybe you should just kill yourself? Some Christians dont even believe in an everlasting hell so basically they dont even have that to scare them yet they serve God all the freer and love him the most explain that
@Mider999 That's the thing about atheists, we're not a cohesive group of people bound together by any ideologies. We are a group that just lacks a belief in a deity. And even that isn't true in many cases, some atheists believe in supernatural entities that they don't term as 'deities'. So for you to think the one atheist's statement reflects the overall view of atheism is funny, because there is no other overall view of atheism other than we don't believe in a deity.
@LaerenMisha I don't really need to try to explain why people profess love for an imaginary person. Kids do it all the time. And those of us who grow up see that the imaginary friend was all along, imaginary. No matter how much we "loved" them when we were a kid. Perhaps that's how the New Atheism should look at it - leading children out of belief in Santa Claus and into rationality.
Good insight. New atheism is a reactionary movement and more identity is necessary for atheism to survive long-term. But it's not true that we have no emotional counter to religion. We do, it's just not well formulated yet. Take away religion and what authority do atheists have? Only emotion. Professor Jonathan Haidt's Happiness Hypothesis is probably up your ally. Or Alonzo Fyfe's Desire Utilitarianism. I'm a little to the right of those two. But the future will be variants of desire.
Hey man, very thoughtful video. I would like to point something out about the positive message. I think this is already happening. For instance, think about Richard Dawkins: Many of his books could be interpreted as mostly (not entirely) pointing the flaws and not giving an alternative positive (emotional) message. But his last book "The Greatest Show on Earth" does exactly that. Shows you how emotionally compelling the natural world is if you just learn a little about it.
Marry me. Seriously. There are so few people out there who truly impress me. I'm so sick of people who don't think for themselves or just don't think about anything of ANY substance, period. I have met so few people (they are so outnumbered by idiots that I can't remember all of them), with whom I can have a real conversation. I wish you lived closer so I could actually talk to you one-on-one. You're amazing. Keep up the great work. LOL I'm sorry that I hit on you, but hey, life is short.
Having a religion is like following in somebody else's footsteps through a minefield. It may not be as thrilling and exiting as running through the minefield hoping you'll get lucky and the person who's footsteps you're following may have been crazy to some degree, but if you want to live long and prosper follow crazy.
I've read Carl Sagan's books and studied psychology under Albert Ellis. I personally like a few atheists I've met but I think it's corrupting of scientific objectivity to discount perfectly reasonable opinions such as sexual fidelity being less likely to kill you than promiscuity merely because you like Hugh Hefner more than Mother Theresa.
100 years from now, topics such as ghosts and aliens may be common knowledge within mainstream academia just as medicine and astronomy are today; which of course thousands of years ago were categorised with the arcane and paranormal because they were unknown disciplines aka MAGIC! i r [pro]
"All I know is that I know nothing" The humble opinion in doubting everything ta you have come to believe is the start of the individual atheism. Religion wants to answer the unexplainable with only words and text written a long time ago, thats is absolutely wrong. I admire its moral views like as this qoute says, "Do onto others like you want to be done upon to you" . I think it comes from buddhism, correct If im wrong. Just follow that quote all your life and you will be a great human.
When you think logical of every religion, race, culture, life and history. You start to realize that everything comes to one simple fact. That to answer life with religion is completely absurd and the real hope of man to find an answer lies with science. My opinion is that in this era we will not find the answer and it will take couple of hundreds if not thousand or millions of years to completely understand what is all around us. In the future lies our destiny, the atheism movement.
not all theists just believe for emotional reasons.
positive emotional response is more for wimps..
If people are stupid and get upset rather than liberated, by the absence of purpose... Then, reacting to it is a job for psychiatrists.. or just arty types that prefer emotion to science.The message, is not something that logical people really need. Since we don't get bogged down by the emotions anyway. So the people heading the positive emotional response,would likely be a different crowd.
I think a lot of this nonsense is mainly youtube. The only place where people gather in pubs to discuss seriously the existence of God is in 19th century Russia. Now I think Atheists want to assume an intellectual air, and theists want to push things, as always. But the truth is--we don't truly care what each other believes, because we're damn near the same anyway, but we still want to be right, even when we don't really know the answer.
@GallusSapien According to the Jews, an angel strikes the baby in the womb and causes the philtrum, which gives the baby a clean slate. The philtrum is common among mammals, not just humans, so that mythology doesn't make sense. If anything, the fact that it's common among mammals indicates we all probably came from a common ancestor.
@GallusSapien really using mythology to explain things that HAVE ALREADY BEEN SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN is pathetic. C'mon we don't need to use God's or Zeus' wrath to explain something like some guy getting struck by lighting.
@supersmash43 Yu have absolutely no idea how much I would pay to hear a fundie say that just once.Its okay. I understand how the stupid can get to someone. And my joke wasn't far enough off the mark of reality to be obvious parody I guess.
I'm Native American and heres my personal view on death i don't believe in god or goddess other then my wife lol... but hers where i stand. my people believe that when we die as we all know our bodies return to the earth our body feel the earth that grass the trees the flower our energy helping the balance of nature on our mother earth. that circle of life.. we are the Air, planets, the animal, the rain every thing. energy can never be destroyed when we die we because apart of the earth
@KamidakeRed That's not a religious philosphy anymore, but it's been documented by many philosophers throughout history. It was legit before we discovered the atom, but now we know for a fact that we become the earth and everything on it when we die. The interesting part is where we all start out, which is inside stars. We are all star dust, since all atoms besides hydrogen and helium are created inside stars.
Great effort, sol, but I think you're making a wrong assumption by suggesting that atheism is, or will ever be, a "movement". As you know, it's simply about not believing in a God or Gods. It may appear to be a movement at present because highly regarded atheists such as Dawkins and Hitchens have decided to end a long tradition of tippeytoe-ing around people's religious beliefs and have come out and publically said; "Hey, you are wrong", and put the cat amongst the pigeons.
@pedrico33 As a consequence, lots of other former tippeytoe-ers have seen this as an opportunity, so atheists have become more vocal than they've ever been. Naturally, this perceived atheist uprising is copping a lot of resistence making it appear like a 'movement'.
I grew up in a predominantly atheist country, almost everybody around me and all my friends, were atheists. We didn't even mention atheism, because religion didn't play any part in our lives. Of course, you knew about it from history, you knew what's it about, you knew there were some people who believed in it, but it was rarely mentioned, and you didn't think about it. We thought, and talked about reality, real things. I am looking forward to the time when atheism will disappear, no religion.
I agree, and labeling anything with a negative name just gives more power to the thing we are saying doesn't exist. From listening to dawkins I see that the opposite of any religious though is Reason. So yes, I have stoped refering to my self as an atheist and when ever anyone askes I just say I folow reason, not religion.
I agree, and labeling anything with a negative name just gives more power to the thing we are saying doesn't exist. From listening to dawkins I see that the opposite of any religious though is Reason. So yes, I have stoped refering to my self as an atheist and when ever anyone askes I just say I folow reason, not religion.
I really,don't like to concern myself in this meaningless fight about religion vs atheism,its just going to lead to more issues than this Earth can handle,people with religiond and atheists alikes are trying to force each others beliefs down one another throats,it sickens me.
When we defeat the religionists, there will be a major civil war between the libertarians and the statists ;-)
While I think it's good to have a positive message, we are never going to achieve a unified positive message for all the non-believers in the gods, especially when the views tend to differ so much between us outside the realm of opposition to religion.
However, since the poisonous effects of religion aren't going away anytime soon, I think the negative message is gonna remain a powerful glue to unify non-believers in the gods(And possibly some of the more rational self-described believers) for many years to come. But if there is one thing I want to be wrong about, that would be the one.
i use spirituality in the first definition because that's the definition commonly used for it i did not even know there was that second definition sorry about that
gah, i love your videos so much, thank you, thank you, thank you. it's so... accumalative my love for what you can do with words and voices and emotions and expressions. i know i sound like a fanboy but you really should know that your videos really do mean a lot to me (i'm not under the impression that they're for me, i'm not crazy) and it brightens my day a little bit when i see that you've made another one, so again thank you
I'm an aspiring taoist, and it sounds a lot like what you are describing as atheist spirituality. Taoism, as a philosophy, not as a religion (there is a difference.) Is this kind of what you are talking about? If not, how is it different?
Aren't you referring to Secular Humanism. I always point out that before I'm atheist I'm a secular humanist and people always ask what that is, and that gives me the opportunity to explain what it's about.
... Let's be honest, a task this vast would prob require sub contractors to complete. So he or she had some help. I do hold out the possibility we magically came to exist out of thin air, even though the chances of life starting from a dark abyss of "nothingness" is about zero.
It's not about believing in a magical being, that would belie sleight of hand, it's a spiritual endeavor. I do believe there was something, someone, maybe a consortium of otherworldly intellectuals that got bored one day, a day that was probably 1 million years in our time, and decided to start the life ball rolling.
I don't see what's so scary about the possibility of an intelligent being or beings initiating life. ....
I like the simple phrase "Secular Meaning and Morality." Coming to understand how one can have what faith offers without it was central to my deconversion. A reason to affirm human decency, a sense of purpose, a place in a grander story, community, opportunities to make a difference, a way to approach dying with some joy, peace and contentment. If u want to PM me, I'd love to discuss it.
@SolRosenberg84 So what are your views concerning Christians who are anti-religious? Religion can take many forms, some of these seek to fit science into their preconceived worldview(i.e Darwinism, much of mainstream Christianity/Judaism/Islam),do you agree?And how many dimensions do you recognize in the realm of astro-physics? You are clearly a great mind, I hope you pursue the train of thought you outline here...be careful however, I DID, and ended up embracing the ONLY inevitable conclusion!
... okay, last comment for today, i dont want to comment too much, but there is so much you need to look up and research and check at wikipedia. it seems that people like this exist almost everywhere, except under the most totalitarian regimes, where they get imprisoned or even killed. and the new atheist movement is incredibly young compared to the other ones. maybe mostly an internet thing.
anyway, all the stuff i mentioned is at least in large parts compatible with atheism.
also you have to know that many of these philosophies are old. some are ancient. you do not know your own roots, it seems. dawkins hitchens and harris often use quotations from people which are considered part of the humanist traditions, which is even more evident in some of their books. in africa there is ubuntu. then in the east you have zen buddhism and other traditions. they all focus on reality but shift focus away from ego/self.
okay, i had to pause this video and write another comment right after you say this. you say "there is no name for it, it doesnt have a name". WAKE UP NEO, you have been sleeping.
Zen Buddhism, (Secular) Humanism, Ubuntu, Ghandi, Nelson Mandela. Sam Harris practised meditation and says everyone should try it. Humanism managed to get deeply into politics, its what led to the universal declaration of human rights. Amnesty International.
when i listen to a video like this, while i probarbly agree with you on many things regarding religion philosophy and science, its like being outside of the matrix and seeing someone that is inside.
here in Germany, when the whole thing got started, some clever humanists started a thinktank and some NGOs and non for profits and so the whole thing, as it happened in the USA and elsewhere as the "new atheist movement" happened from inside the older humanist movements right from the start.
@DN64 Stop being a idiot and reflect on your life views, the majority of his opinions have made me actually think about my personal beliefs and he helped me discover atheism.
If there was a dick poking my face this entire video, would it lessen anything I had to say? How does being attracted to the same sex diminish anything anyone has to say? Did you come from the world of Idiocracy?
@SolRosenberg84 "If there was a dick poking my face this entire video, would it lessen anything I had to say?"
Uhhhh yeah, kinda. Distracting visuals and WTF-ness can certainly take away from the credibility and memorability of anything.
If the above case had happened, I think 10 days later I'd only remember the fact that a guy was having a dick poking his face for no discernible reason O_o
But then, I think that's more to do with the abnormal explicitness of your example, not the gayness :P
@SolRosenberg84 I'm sorry I upset you, but you really have nothing of value to say in this video...it's all BS...and I just thought it couldn't get any worse until I realized that you are a big faggot... CAN IT GET ANY WORSE, BITCH?!
@SolRosenberg84 Hi, I enjoyed your video. I also believe that Atheism will become more accepted among people once the distinction is made between spirituality and religion, and I believe that rationalists need to be the ones to make that distinction. I think pointing out the fact that religion does not have a monopoly on subjects like morality and happiness will make it easier for people to be skeptical of organised theism. But Im not so certain it would be useful for any of this to be labled.
Is that not the same thing as suggesting that the universe owes us comfort? Why do we need to advocate a positive message? What's wrong with saying 'life just is, make with it what you will'? .. Oh, that is a positive message :\
I get pissed off with people (atheists and theists) assuming I mean anything more than I don't believe in god(s) when I say I'm an atheist, so much so that I shirk the term now. I'm a non-believer. The end. My life meaning is individual.
Humans are social creatures. There are both individual and collective aspects to the human life. You live for not only yourself but also your family, friends, colleagues, customers, etc. as well.
@mirandansa Oh quite, sure. I didn't say I was individual... well I am, but yeah, that 'I' is simultaneously both individual and social, that 'I' has agency yet is structured. Complicated stuff.
I just meant that 'meaning' (whatever that is) can be uniquely created/constructed from all that messy stuff. We needn't prescribe to any existing model.
I don't consider myself a trekkie/trekker but when I watched the show I thought to myself "this is what I want the future to be like". A secular/ecumenical society that is science literate and wants to explore the galaxy. This would be fulfilling a deeper impulse other than the need to reproduce. Cyberization, like the borg, could neuter our desire to reproduce entirely and we could design what we want our desires to be.
The free-thinking-skeptic-science-literate identity has become a viral meme. There are atheists that are evangelizing the concept of skepticism and some peripheral philosophies like nihilism, fatalism, empiricism, determinism, subjective morality, etc. Myself included. I think most of us free thinkers see a definite goal for the future of the species even if no one talks about it. We want cybernetics, we want no more war, we want fair government or no government, we want star trek.
You have a beautful, colorful, and vivid video. You are very objective of the atheist perspecitve. I claim that there are no gods. I don't need science or religion to prove or disprove this.
We are humans first, secular second, and atheists last. We can use our humanism, secularism, and our society to provide what you are talking about. Maybe you should look into Humanism, they have something to offer and you don't have to have a god. The Brights have already started with a replacement.
There was a post on Pharyngula a while back discussing 'scientility' as an alternative to 'spirituality'. You should be able to find it through google. It sounds a bit awkward but you're right when you say we need to find a name our our own.
I'd use "scientist" but I'm not a researcher, which I think is the stereotypical "scientist" as shown in the media, and it's a job description not a description of beliefs.
How about "scienceist"? Or spelled "sciencist"? I know, it sounds stupid.
@KrisBlueNZ I am an atheist. i don't need science to dismiss all the mythical gods. I need to evidence to prove or disprove these matters. I am not a scientist, not even close. Do you need science or can't you just dismiss all of the gods as unbelievable or mythical. Is there anything about these gods that warrants investigation? Are Odin, Ra, Allah, or Jesus any more real than another of the other tens of thousands of mythical creatures? The answer is NO. :)
@KrisBlueNZ Do you consider religion to be an alternative? Science is great, but it is not needed to dismiss any of the gods? Do you need to use the scientific method to dismiss Isis or Zeus? I think science helps people dump their gods. I also know reading the Bible can lead to dumping gods. Atheists do not necessarily require science for their disbelief. I love science, they gave me dialysis and then a kidney transplant. We need more science, but gods are dismissable. :)
@matthewtaylorbrown Do I consider religion to be an alternative to what? To atheism? Well, you can't be both, and a lot of people are religious, so I guess in practice they are alternative worldviews, one true and one ridiculous.
We don't need the scientific method to not believe in gods of the past, since no one still claims they exist.
@KrisBlueNZ Don't you just hate the text limits in this medium?
Do you need evidence from the Scientologist's god claims or is it as dismissable as I think it is? What about the gods claim of the Hundu? Might it be that the evidence-based atheists require proof because they used to believe in a a particular god? Are all gods the same to you as myth-gods or is there one in particular that is more possible to you? I'm not nagging or setting you up. You probably find my perspective just as odd. :)
@KrisBlueNZ There have always been atheists. Atheist basically comes from the Greek, but even the polytheistic Mesoamerican region had a word for us. Was it science-based disbelief? Were the ancient Egyptian atheists science based? Man seems to underestimate our ancient ancestors. Religions faith is still a minority world-view on our little blue planet. It is possible that faith might swing like the pendulum; race-wise. The scientific method is being giving a lot of credit for disbelief.
Science provides the clear alternative explanations of things like the diversity of life (evolution vs. creation), seizures (epilepsy vs. demonic possession) and so many other things.
Without these explanations, how could any theist de-convert? What beliefs would he have to de-convert to?
@KrisBlueNZ Is this more interesting or less then dealing with a theist or agnostic?
Reading the Bible resulted in more questions than answers. I began to think I was smarter then my parents and clergyman (UMethodist). This happens to teens when they rebel. I was raped for years by my step-father as a boy. My prayers for his death went unanswered.
How could I believe. Everyone has their own horror stories, mine had only started as a boy. I was a god hater for a while. Then agnostic. Then...
@KrisBlueNZ I tried pantheism, it made a lot of sense, but eventually I realized I was just redefining a god I didn't believe existed. It seemed kind of simple ones I realized this. Then I discovered there was a name for it, I was an atheist and there were others. It doesn't matter how you get to be an atheist, once you are there it is a great subject of interest.
So I've come to see, through debate, that one can be ejected or jolted out of belief. I've seen rebellion as a cause. :)
Without scientific discoveries being widely known, people would continue to resort to comforting authoritative-sounding religion and its representatives, and we could still be bleeding people to cure their illnesses, burning witches, and hating atheists.
We are the lucky ones - a scientific approach, and scepticism, are so natural to us, that we don't see their strong influence in our outlook.
You need evidence to prove or disprove things. That is the core of the _scientific_ method. You think you could have come up with that idea yourself, without science? We'll never know.
@KrisBlueNZ Sorry, I'm not very interested in science. I like astronomy, but mostly the wonderful pictures of deep space. I took Live Science I in my first year of high school. Read the Bible, nothing causes makes a person drop Christianity faster than reading from page to page. Don't forget history, it is an area with it's methodologies and frameworks. That's my area. There have been tens of thousands of man-made gods. There are no gods. :)
Sure, but "science" is more than the sum of scientific disciplines, it is a way of looking at things, demanding falsifiable proof and so on, which is a good way to combat theism.
Sure, pointing out the stupidities in the bible is a good way too, I especially like user/kalsolarUK, and history helps too, though it can allow for arguments about bias, attribution, translation, context and so on.
I guess few christians have read the bible from cover to cover. Easier for a christian to just "read the verses carefully chosen for him by his pastor".
Well thought out and spoken. i think people who follow religion know its bull shit but the thing is its better than not following something and having faith. faith is important that emotion is a natural thing.
Geat video! And i think you've got something there with that "dealing with reality spirituality" but you should definately put links in the info area when you refer to other videos or resources (just to make it a lot easyer to find them)
I've been trying to get this message across to people for a while, I know exactly what you're talking about. That video "Atheist Spirituality" is incredibly beautiful. People fear the thought of nothing after death, and they don't truly recognize the magnificence of the reality we live in. They have the idea of spirituality meaning magical things as well
I like the name "Cosmic Existentialism" and another +1 to defining spirituality in terms of an awe and connection to reality :)
I read a book a while ago that deals with what he is saying. The Neo-Tech Discoveries written by frank Wallace is a rather large book about how (and I am wording this wrong, I apologize) Atheism can guide you through life. It speaks of what he calls Total Integrated Honesty, a rather scary idea, but sound. If you want to read it, look it up, but mind you, it's writer was somewhat...insane...so it reads like a prophecy. Still, it's well worth the read if you have a week or so to yourself.
Haha, what about "cosmic existentialism" as a possible identifying term?
I know exactly what you are talking about, and I too find myself succumbing to a naturalistic, kind of, universal understanding that is heavily derived from popularizes of science like Carl Sagan.
Well humanism and existentialism seem to be roughly along the lines you're talking about, but I doubt a neologism will sell very well. While this seems a worthwhile project I'm not sure we should really try too tie it in to atheism not least because it doesn't even require hard atheism, (Epicurus' deism springs to mind) cont.
@Aletheophile or because you really CAN'T say much about a person's philosophy from knowing they're an atheist (we're talking about a group that includes Karl Marx, Ayn Rand, George Orwell, Nick Clegg, the Buddha, Richard Feynman, Billy Connolly and Bree Olson) After all atheism really is ONLY a lack of belief in the gods that would be redundant without theism I think it would make more sense to keep these as 2 largely independent projects.
i have to agree with cristopher7 in his response to this vid. namely "bad idea". i think the word your looking for is "ATHEIST". looking for another word that encompasses an "atheist spirituality" based in science, logic etc is not something we should be "trying" to do. if that word exists...? it carry's with it an "expiration date" (obsolescence). time goes on, things change, battlefields are never static.
its is however a good thought, a great subject, well articulated by you. thx.
Isn't the name "Secular Humanism"? I'm actually quite happy with that label. Others are not, but there exactly you will find the Atheists who wouldn't allow labels to be applied to them anyways.
We are unlikely to have total success - so its unlikely atheism will fade away; when athiesm's time is up, it's gone. I just hope atheism doesn't become a religion. We don't need a positive message - psychology can deal with people who have a pathological reaction to death and loss. There are many moralities that athiests can accept - the 'all things are one' view is just one valid reaction, athiesm shouldn't become a dogma imposing the idea of 'we are stardust' on people who think we moved on.
Did the groups that campaigned to end slavery or prohibition progress to making a positive claim after they got what they wanted? No! They drifted apart. Once the force holding us together breaks, we'll split and join other groups that make positive claims we stick by. Athiesm is more a positive claim that religion is BS, a rejection of god, as anti-pot law people are a positive rejection of those laws. We'll become lots of little groups with different morals - as we are already underneath.
Fuck dogma with a sharp stick. Not what I was trying to suggest at all.
I was referring to the human natural response of awe to nature, and the reality that we are one with the universe (sounds cliche but its surprisingly true). Combine that emotional cocktail with a healthy respect for evidence and you have some idea of what I was trying to get at.
@8824snipe Atheist means nothing of the sort. Many atheists have dogma, like the definition you just described. We have little in common and often argue amungst ourselves. We are 'not theists', that's it.
"Atheism is not a religion, it's a personal relationship with reality" ;)
If religion can be viewed as a kind of escapism (from reality), maybe a new word could be coined that involves embracing reality: embracism. I'm not religious, I'm not spiritual, I'm embracing.
I think all we need is a few more hundred years and religions will be invalid, you can already see people only using religion in traditions of local culture. eg;non church going people having a religious wedding. The less mobile the people the more bound they are to conform to their local religion,ie;western culture has other traditions out side of religions, giving rise to even more new ideas. We are a long way off from shaking off non-believer labels but at least we can lead by example.
honestly, it doesnt matter; most of mankind is terribly superstitious and irrational, they wouldnt switch sides even if we were a tax exempt organization and gave out special rings and silly hats to our members;
just call yourself a secular humanist ( a.k.a. one of the enlightened elite :D )
people that have a hard time with death need to realize its gonna happen no matter what. i think about it sometimes and it sucks, but then i realize how lucky i am in the first place to even be here on this planet. i believe when you know that this is your only life, you will live it like it's your only life. stop wondering what is going to happen after you die, and worry about what you are going to do while you're still alive
tf's science, nyks philosophy, abby's art, laura's vids, btl's studies, gtf's style, nellie's dolls, Ashley's spirit, my photos, and many others.... all giving testimony to the fact that not only is there not a god, but we who know it are gonna keep on keepin' on. There are still discoveries to be made, works to be crafted, arguments to be had, victories to be celebrated, losses to be mourned, and love to be shared. The movement is already happening. Named or not, I'm really happy a part.
"Wonderism"? "Poetic Realism"? "Existentialists" would have been great name but the philosophers will get confused (and the hardcore ones would be outraged at the hijacking of one of their words). "Truthers" would have been great too, but some wankers got there first. "Brights" implies non-brights are "dims". "Humanism" is a close fit, but it lacks the positivity I think you're looking for.
I would love to get high with you!
smaskeriff 2 weeks ago
I just call myself Human. As a group, I'd call us Humans.
TheGrimGary 1 month ago
I am a naturalist, not a theist. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that religion is (at least for most people) a defense mechanism (denial). Reality is full of suffering and that is why people deny it. The scientific studies weigh in favor of religious people being happier. I have been very frustrated with religious people but the truth is that we can not offer a more appealing idea unless neuroscience revolutionizes our brains to experience more pleasure.
streetmagicstyle 1 month ago
@streetmagicstyle Think about it. What idea rooted in reality sounds more pleasant than an eternal bliss with zero suffering?
streetmagicstyle 1 month ago
uhhhhhhhh it's called secular humanism.
Richardemize 2 months ago
lol I feel like you say what i want to say better and more eloquently than i can. :)
FactVsReligion 5 months ago
I've said this many times, if not for religion most of us atheist youtubers would be science enthusiasts and political activists. This seems to be what is happening now as the religious haven't come up with any new argument that doesn't fail the second it comes out of their mouth in the last 500 year. I prefer secular humanism as a replacement.
anubis2814 10 months ago
The name you are looking for is "naturalistic atheism"--BUT embracing naturalistic atheism--can not logically lead to one emotional response or another. Personally,if I became an atheist I would be a nihilist-which to be would be quite depressing.
ScrapGoldBass 1 year ago
Does reality need a positive spin? I dont see how you can add more positive to atheism then living a true life without playing games. Its not for everyone thats for sure, you can see how many people still need that crutch that religion provides. My parents are those, no matter how I try to show them they cant accept reality.
I do think the videos on youtube are a good thing, or a positive thing, it gets the message out to those that are questioning faith or religion and gets them answers.
Blueace12345 1 year ago
I think, when you called it "spiritual" or "religious", what you may have meant is "sacredness". I was really baffled when I recently saw the interview with Sean Dorrance Kelly on the Colbert Report (Feb 2nd 2011). I can only agree with him - lack of the sacred in a society and for oneself is detrimental to ones life.
Thats when I noticed that I couldn't stop thinking about religion because it so blatantly contradicts values sacred to myself - like curiosity and openness of mind.
andimuellersc 1 year ago
How about, "Natural Romanticism" or a "Natural Romatic". Maybe not the most descriptive label but it's what comes to mind and makes sense to me.
FrogJon 1 year ago
nice bong collection
kipconner 1 year ago
Call it Humanity!
djdanaman 1 year ago
how about...."secular dogma"
bishopb7 1 year ago
flaccid
D1llsta 1 year ago
You talk about a positive message from atheism. Have you seen this video? I think it makes a great point about how atheism frees you from the slavery of religion. It talks about how our greatest worth is that we are part of a larger universe, that we and the galaxies and apocalyptic forces out there are the same thing. Stars died so we can live.
Check out "Science Saved My Soul" by philhellenes
Hope you enjoy it as much as I did :) And keep up the great work, always fun to see you onlime!
LaerenMisha 1 year ago
@LaerenMisha
I loved Science saved my Soul - Phil's channel is one of the best on youtube in my opinion.
Have you seen his new video "This Remarkable Thing"? Its great stuff.
SolRosenberg84 1 year ago
@SolRosenberg84 Yes, it was also amazing. I think I was hit harder by SSMS though, because for a long time I had struggled with my feelings of insignificance in the universe. But then I think of how a star's death allowed me to be created, and that what I'm looking at when I look at my sprained thumb (volleyball...) I'm looking at things that have been around for 13+ billion years. That really makes me think and sometimes gives me chills :) I love the feeling of being this universe.
LaerenMisha 1 year ago
@LaerenMisha religion didnt create slaves only humans did the pope did alot of idiots did who basically took something that was good and turned it upside down for cash and something ointless. As for religion IF God is true He says that Christianity can never be destroyed I guess we all believer and non believer just have to wait and see wont we?
Mider999 1 year ago
@Mider999 No, actually religion is set up to enslave the mind to the idea that we are owned and created beings who owe our lives to something that claims ownership over us. That's slavery, pure and simple. The bible constantly expounds the notion that we are owned by God, and God can dictate whatever it wants to us and we must obey. I don't see any other definition of this state of being than slavery.
Be free, and stop being owned by religion.
I pwn religion.
LaerenMisha 11 months ago
@LaerenMisha Im not enslaved by anyone. I think that you try to enslave MY mind to your notion that i have to follow your beliefs. Why should i do that? I can do whatever i want and i do whatever i want so how am i enslaved. There are alot of good people who are religious you must only focus on bad people or i dont know what. I have met alot of atheists and alot of them were not very nice they were vicous people who made fun of anyone and everything who didnt fit there beliefs i dont do that
Mider999 11 months ago
@Mider999 Actually, I am not encumbered by beliefs in the supernatural. Therefore, I am not trying to get you to believe anything. You claim you can do whatever you want, but if you follow a religion, you can't. So therefore you are not free. You are enslaved by your belief system, and if it is one of the 40,000 christian sects in the US alone, you are enslaved to the bible and its teachings that you are not your own, that you are owned by a god, and it can do what it wants to you = slavery
LaerenMisha 11 months ago
@LaerenMisha Oh and I've met a few Xtians that are terrible, terrible people. Westboro Baptist Church ring a bell? Terrible, terrible people. Log in thine eye before splinter in mine.
LaerenMisha 11 months ago
@LaerenMisha mate if you wanna get technical i dont believe in absolute freedom. Your enslaved by the laws of your country and other things such as age and such. As for me doing what i want i dont know what you mean. What exactly do you think i wanna do that i dont? Do you think i cant drink or smoke or go out nad have unprotected sex? I dont like the taste of smoking or alochal. And i wasnt given the body of a male model or the face thus i cant really treat women like whores
Mider999 11 months ago
@LaerenMisha I spoke to an atheist just yesturday telling him about my problems with depression and how i couldnt change some things with my body he said well maybe suicide was NOT the worst option. Lol is that the future with atheists? Oh well does life really suck that much well maybe you should just kill yourself? Some Christians dont even believe in an everlasting hell so basically they dont even have that to scare them yet they serve God all the freer and love him the most explain that
Mider999 11 months ago
@Mider999 That's the thing about atheists, we're not a cohesive group of people bound together by any ideologies. We are a group that just lacks a belief in a deity. And even that isn't true in many cases, some atheists believe in supernatural entities that they don't term as 'deities'. So for you to think the one atheist's statement reflects the overall view of atheism is funny, because there is no other overall view of atheism other than we don't believe in a deity.
LaerenMisha 11 months ago
@LaerenMisha I don't really need to try to explain why people profess love for an imaginary person. Kids do it all the time. And those of us who grow up see that the imaginary friend was all along, imaginary. No matter how much we "loved" them when we were a kid. Perhaps that's how the New Atheism should look at it - leading children out of belief in Santa Claus and into rationality.
LaerenMisha 11 months ago
Good insight. New atheism is a reactionary movement and more identity is necessary for atheism to survive long-term. But it's not true that we have no emotional counter to religion. We do, it's just not well formulated yet. Take away religion and what authority do atheists have? Only emotion. Professor Jonathan Haidt's Happiness Hypothesis is probably up your ally. Or Alonzo Fyfe's Desire Utilitarianism. I'm a little to the right of those two. But the future will be variants of desire.
xntubes 1 year ago
This is an awesome video. Very well said!
Skepticktok 1 year ago
Hey man, very thoughtful video. I would like to point something out about the positive message. I think this is already happening. For instance, think about Richard Dawkins: Many of his books could be interpreted as mostly (not entirely) pointing the flaws and not giving an alternative positive (emotional) message. But his last book "The Greatest Show on Earth" does exactly that. Shows you how emotionally compelling the natural world is if you just learn a little about it.
goomba008 1 year ago
Marry me. Seriously. There are so few people out there who truly impress me. I'm so sick of people who don't think for themselves or just don't think about anything of ANY substance, period. I have met so few people (they are so outnumbered by idiots that I can't remember all of them), with whom I can have a real conversation. I wish you lived closer so I could actually talk to you one-on-one. You're amazing. Keep up the great work. LOL I'm sorry that I hit on you, but hey, life is short.
FM897 1 year ago
You are highly intelligent, and everyone of your videos i have seen is extremely impressive. You have earned my subscription, and my thumbs up.
phcopathicfyed 1 year ago
Having a religion is like following in somebody else's footsteps through a minefield. It may not be as thrilling and exiting as running through the minefield hoping you'll get lucky and the person who's footsteps you're following may have been crazy to some degree, but if you want to live long and prosper follow crazy.
Texasjim2007 1 year ago
I've read Carl Sagan's books and studied psychology under Albert Ellis. I personally like a few atheists I've met but I think it's corrupting of scientific objectivity to discount perfectly reasonable opinions such as sexual fidelity being less likely to kill you than promiscuity merely because you like Hugh Hefner more than Mother Theresa.
Texasjim2007 1 year ago
100 years from now, topics such as ghosts and aliens may be common knowledge within mainstream academia just as medicine and astronomy are today; which of course thousands of years ago were categorised with the arcane and paranormal because they were unknown disciplines aka MAGIC! i r [pro]
DracoRaptorX 1 year ago
"All I know is that I know nothing" The humble opinion in doubting everything ta you have come to believe is the start of the individual atheism. Religion wants to answer the unexplainable with only words and text written a long time ago, thats is absolutely wrong. I admire its moral views like as this qoute says, "Do onto others like you want to be done upon to you" . I think it comes from buddhism, correct If im wrong. Just follow that quote all your life and you will be a great human.
wardogmobius 1 year ago
When you think logical of every religion, race, culture, life and history. You start to realize that everything comes to one simple fact. That to answer life with religion is completely absurd and the real hope of man to find an answer lies with science. My opinion is that in this era we will not find the answer and it will take couple of hundreds if not thousand or millions of years to completely understand what is all around us. In the future lies our destiny, the atheism movement.
wardogmobius 1 year ago
lol I was laughing at the part when you going like, "ALCHEMY IS BULLSHIT! ALCHEMY IS BULLHSHIT!". lol
Tiger4meat 1 year ago
not all theists just believe for emotional reasons.
positive emotional response is more for wimps..
If people are stupid and get upset rather than liberated, by the absence of purpose... Then, reacting to it is a job for psychiatrists.. or just arty types that prefer emotion to science.The message, is not something that logical people really need. Since we don't get bogged down by the emotions anyway. So the people heading the positive emotional response,would likely be a different crowd.
jameshanley40 1 year ago
I think this is what your talking about check out churchofreality
supersmash43 1 year ago
I remember you mentioning Intelligent Design as not even a pseudoscience. How is not even a psudeoscience? Isn't it that by definition?
supersmash43 1 year ago
Secular Humanism?
strontiumcrypt 1 year ago
I think it already has a name: Pure humanity. Stripped of thousands of years of fear and greed and stubborn ignorance.
dodeka 1 year ago
I refer to it as "appreciation". :)
kyledavidbyron 1 year ago
I liiiike the .....reeeefer Madness poster, uhh.......in the background. Bwahaha, don't you have a school to shoot up?
brianmadsen11 1 year ago
I think a lot of this nonsense is mainly youtube. The only place where people gather in pubs to discuss seriously the existence of God is in 19th century Russia. Now I think Atheists want to assume an intellectual air, and theists want to push things, as always. But the truth is--we don't truly care what each other believes, because we're damn near the same anyway, but we still want to be right, even when we don't really know the answer.
CoffeePatron 1 year ago
After a little research, I realised the proper term for me is a "secular humanist atheist materialist", or "S.H.A.M." for short-
Oh, shit. :-(
bttsstewart 1 year ago
@Purelyharted No, you have no relevance at all. Why do you ask? BYE...
DN64 1 year ago
Okay. That thing between your upper lip and nose that looks like a pause sign? Why did u evolv dat????
Explain that MISTER SCIENTIST!!
GallusSapien 1 year ago
@GallusSapien According to the Jews, an angel strikes the baby in the womb and causes the philtrum, which gives the baby a clean slate. The philtrum is common among mammals, not just humans, so that mythology doesn't make sense. If anything, the fact that it's common among mammals indicates we all probably came from a common ancestor.
EternallyRecurring 1 year ago
@GallusSapien really using mythology to explain things that HAVE ALREADY BEEN SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN is pathetic. C'mon we don't need to use God's or Zeus' wrath to explain something like some guy getting struck by lighting.
supersmash43 1 year ago
@supersmash43
1.I'm an atheist
2.It was a joke
3.You sound dogmatic
Thank you.
GallusSapien 1 year ago
@GallusSapien sorry about that man. I wasn't trying to sound dogmatic.
supersmash43 1 year ago
@supersmash43 Yu have absolutely no idea how much I would pay to hear a fundie say that just once.Its okay. I understand how the stupid can get to someone. And my joke wasn't far enough off the mark of reality to be obvious parody I guess.
have a good day.
GallusSapien 1 year ago
I'm Native American and heres my personal view on death i don't believe in god or goddess other then my wife lol... but hers where i stand. my people believe that when we die as we all know our bodies return to the earth our body feel the earth that grass the trees the flower our energy helping the balance of nature on our mother earth. that circle of life.. we are the Air, planets, the animal, the rain every thing. energy can never be destroyed when we die we because apart of the earth
KamidakeRed 1 year ago
@KamidakeRed That's not a religious philosphy anymore, but it's been documented by many philosophers throughout history. It was legit before we discovered the atom, but now we know for a fact that we become the earth and everything on it when we die. The interesting part is where we all start out, which is inside stars. We are all star dust, since all atoms besides hydrogen and helium are created inside stars.
EternallyRecurring 1 year ago
@EternallyRecurring yes this is all very true were more then the earth were the universe.
KamidakeRed 1 year ago
Great effort, sol, but I think you're making a wrong assumption by suggesting that atheism is, or will ever be, a "movement". As you know, it's simply about not believing in a God or Gods. It may appear to be a movement at present because highly regarded atheists such as Dawkins and Hitchens have decided to end a long tradition of tippeytoe-ing around people's religious beliefs and have come out and publically said; "Hey, you are wrong", and put the cat amongst the pigeons.
pedrico33 1 year ago
@pedrico33 As a consequence, lots of other former tippeytoe-ers have seen this as an opportunity, so atheists have become more vocal than they've ever been. Naturally, this perceived atheist uprising is copping a lot of resistence making it appear like a 'movement'.
pedrico33 1 year ago
I grew up in a predominantly atheist country, almost everybody around me and all my friends, were atheists. We didn't even mention atheism, because religion didn't play any part in our lives. Of course, you knew about it from history, you knew what's it about, you knew there were some people who believed in it, but it was rarely mentioned, and you didn't think about it. We thought, and talked about reality, real things. I am looking forward to the time when atheism will disappear, no religion.
dewinthemorning 1 year ago
Why should some kind of preachy, feel-good moralism be associated with our non-belief?
SilentHobo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I changed my facebook page from:
Religion: Atheist
To
Religion: Reason
I agree, and labeling anything with a negative name just gives more power to the thing we are saying doesn't exist. From listening to dawkins I see that the opposite of any religious though is Reason. So yes, I have stoped refering to my self as an atheist and when ever anyone askes I just say I folow reason, not religion.
civediamo 1 year ago
I changed my facebook page from:
Religion: Atheist
To
Religion: Reason
I agree, and labeling anything with a negative name just gives more power to the thing we are saying doesn't exist. From listening to dawkins I see that the opposite of any religious though is Reason. So yes, I have stoped refering to my self as an atheist and when ever anyone askes I just say I folow reason, not religion.
civediamo 1 year ago
I really,don't like to concern myself in this meaningless fight about religion vs atheism,its just going to lead to more issues than this Earth can handle,people with religiond and atheists alikes are trying to force each others beliefs down one another throats,it sickens me.
LBcrimson 1 year ago
good video!!
thumbs up!!
TheUnmaskedMagician 1 year ago
When we defeat the religionists, there will be a major civil war between the libertarians and the statists ;-)
While I think it's good to have a positive message, we are never going to achieve a unified positive message for all the non-believers in the gods, especially when the views tend to differ so much between us outside the realm of opposition to religion.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
However, since the poisonous effects of religion aren't going away anytime soon, I think the negative message is gonna remain a powerful glue to unify non-believers in the gods(And possibly some of the more rational self-described believers) for many years to come. But if there is one thing I want to be wrong about, that would be the one.
Akatam0t0ma 1 year ago
i use spirituality in the first definition because that's the definition commonly used for it i did not even know there was that second definition sorry about that
The0riginking 1 year ago
gah, i love your videos so much, thank you, thank you, thank you. it's so... accumalative my love for what you can do with words and voices and emotions and expressions. i know i sound like a fanboy but you really should know that your videos really do mean a lot to me (i'm not under the impression that they're for me, i'm not crazy) and it brightens my day a little bit when i see that you've made another one, so again thank you
MrMagneticPelican 1 year ago
How does accumulate fit in there? I don't even.
iPhap 1 year ago
I'm an aspiring taoist, and it sounds a lot like what you are describing as atheist spirituality. Taoism, as a philosophy, not as a religion (there is a difference.) Is this kind of what you are talking about? If not, how is it different?
khrome242 1 year ago
Aren't you referring to Secular Humanism. I always point out that before I'm atheist I'm a secular humanist and people always ask what that is, and that gives me the opportunity to explain what it's about.
jesmmifs 1 year ago
... Let's be honest, a task this vast would prob require sub contractors to complete. So he or she had some help. I do hold out the possibility we magically came to exist out of thin air, even though the chances of life starting from a dark abyss of "nothingness" is about zero.
jvforever72 1 year ago
It's not about believing in a magical being, that would belie sleight of hand, it's a spiritual endeavor. I do believe there was something, someone, maybe a consortium of otherworldly intellectuals that got bored one day, a day that was probably 1 million years in our time, and decided to start the life ball rolling.
I don't see what's so scary about the possibility of an intelligent being or beings initiating life. ....
jvforever72 1 year ago
I like the simple phrase "Secular Meaning and Morality." Coming to understand how one can have what faith offers without it was central to my deconversion. A reason to affirm human decency, a sense of purpose, a place in a grander story, community, opportunities to make a difference, a way to approach dying with some joy, peace and contentment. If u want to PM me, I'd love to discuss it.
myintellectualjourny 1 year ago
How about "naturalist"?
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
humanistic naturalism?
You should put a link of the video you mentioned.
Raphaelus13 1 year ago
@Raphaelus13
Done.
SolRosenberg84 1 year ago 2
@SolRosenberg84 So what are your views concerning Christians who are anti-religious? Religion can take many forms, some of these seek to fit science into their preconceived worldview(i.e Darwinism, much of mainstream Christianity/Judaism/Islam),do you agree?And how many dimensions do you recognize in the realm of astro-physics? You are clearly a great mind, I hope you pursue the train of thought you outline here...be careful however, I DID, and ended up embracing the ONLY inevitable conclusion!
salmagnum 1 year ago
... okay, last comment for today, i dont want to comment too much, but there is so much you need to look up and research and check at wikipedia. it seems that people like this exist almost everywhere, except under the most totalitarian regimes, where they get imprisoned or even killed. and the new atheist movement is incredibly young compared to the other ones. maybe mostly an internet thing.
anyway, all the stuff i mentioned is at least in large parts compatible with atheism.
kurtilein3 1 year ago
... third comment
also you have to know that many of these philosophies are old. some are ancient. you do not know your own roots, it seems. dawkins hitchens and harris often use quotations from people which are considered part of the humanist traditions, which is even more evident in some of their books. in africa there is ubuntu. then in the east you have zen buddhism and other traditions. they all focus on reality but shift focus away from ego/self.
kurtilein3 1 year ago
okay, i had to pause this video and write another comment right after you say this. you say "there is no name for it, it doesnt have a name". WAKE UP NEO, you have been sleeping.
Zen Buddhism, (Secular) Humanism, Ubuntu, Ghandi, Nelson Mandela. Sam Harris practised meditation and says everyone should try it. Humanism managed to get deeply into politics, its what led to the universal declaration of human rights. Amnesty International.
you are SLEEPING.
kurtilein3 1 year ago
when i listen to a video like this, while i probarbly agree with you on many things regarding religion philosophy and science, its like being outside of the matrix and seeing someone that is inside.
here in Germany, when the whole thing got started, some clever humanists started a thinktank and some NGOs and non for profits and so the whole thing, as it happened in the USA and elsewhere as the "new atheist movement" happened from inside the older humanist movements right from the start.
kurtilein3 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
...why don't you even be MORE honest with your viewers and admit that you are:
1. Gay
2. Gay
3. Gay
4. Refer to #1.
DN64 1 year ago
@DN64 Stop being a idiot and reflect on your life views, the majority of his opinions have made me actually think about my personal beliefs and he helped me discover atheism.
rysha101 1 year ago
@rysha101 He has helped you to get lost...if anything...
DN64 1 year ago
@DN64
If there was a dick poking my face this entire video, would it lessen anything I had to say? How does being attracted to the same sex diminish anything anyone has to say? Did you come from the world of Idiocracy?
SolRosenberg84 1 year ago 16
@SolRosenberg84 "If there was a dick poking my face this entire video, would it lessen anything I had to say?"
Uhhhh yeah, kinda. Distracting visuals and WTF-ness can certainly take away from the credibility and memorability of anything.
If the above case had happened, I think 10 days later I'd only remember the fact that a guy was having a dick poking his face for no discernible reason O_o
But then, I think that's more to do with the abnormal explicitness of your example, not the gayness :P
sciencemile 1 year ago
@SolRosenberg84 I'm sorry I upset you, but you really have nothing of value to say in this video...it's all BS...and I just thought it couldn't get any worse until I realized that you are a big faggot... CAN IT GET ANY WORSE, BITCH?!
DN64 1 year ago
@SolRosenberg84 Hi, I enjoyed your video. I also believe that Atheism will become more accepted among people once the distinction is made between spirituality and religion, and I believe that rationalists need to be the ones to make that distinction. I think pointing out the fact that religion does not have a monopoly on subjects like morality and happiness will make it easier for people to be skeptical of organised theism. But Im not so certain it would be useful for any of this to be labled.
spacecowboy95 1 year ago
@SolRosenberg84 That movie is funny (Idiocracy)... I just thought I'd say that.
Anarchist711 1 year ago
@DN64 You sound like you're projecting.
Antiks72 1 year ago
@Antiks72 You aren't making any sound which makes you even less relevant than the other guy. BYE...
DN64 1 year ago
@DN64 It looks like you were projecting.
Antiks72 1 year ago
@Antiks72 Since you are just repeating yourself, it looks like I've won... EZPZ... BYE...
DN64 1 year ago
@DN64 Give yourself a victory douche.
Antiks72 1 year ago
@Antiks72 I gave one to your mama before I fucked her... FTW! HAHA! BYE (for the last time -- replies will be IGNORED!)...
DN64 1 year ago
@DN64 Oh another your momma joke. Impressive.
Antiks72 1 year ago
@DN64 obvious troll is obvious
coolbeans0325 1 year ago
@DN64 Own by solrosenberg84....
wardogmobius 1 year ago
I think you are talking about the Integral Movement (Ken Wilber, William Irwin Thompson, etc.).
mirandansa 1 year ago
ALCHEMY IS REAL! MY SHAMAN HAS 450 SKILL AND ALMOST ALL THE RECIPES!! Don't lie to these people! You ain't got no pancake mix!
Saedin 1 year ago
Nice vid!
ritsyard 1 year ago
Is that not the same thing as suggesting that the universe owes us comfort? Why do we need to advocate a positive message? What's wrong with saying 'life just is, make with it what you will'? .. Oh, that is a positive message :\
I get pissed off with people (atheists and theists) assuming I mean anything more than I don't believe in god(s) when I say I'm an atheist, so much so that I shirk the term now. I'm a non-believer. The end. My life meaning is individual.
Megatopcat 1 year ago
@Megatopcat
« My life meaning is individual. »
Humans are social creatures. There are both individual and collective aspects to the human life. You live for not only yourself but also your family, friends, colleagues, customers, etc. as well.
mirandansa 1 year ago
@mirandansa Oh quite, sure. I didn't say I was individual... well I am, but yeah, that 'I' is simultaneously both individual and social, that 'I' has agency yet is structured. Complicated stuff.
I just meant that 'meaning' (whatever that is) can be uniquely created/constructed from all that messy stuff. We needn't prescribe to any existing model.
Megatopcat 1 year ago
I don't consider myself a trekkie/trekker but when I watched the show I thought to myself "this is what I want the future to be like". A secular/ecumenical society that is science literate and wants to explore the galaxy. This would be fulfilling a deeper impulse other than the need to reproduce. Cyberization, like the borg, could neuter our desire to reproduce entirely and we could design what we want our desires to be.
DeimosSaturn 1 year ago
The free-thinking-skeptic-science-literate identity has become a viral meme. There are atheists that are evangelizing the concept of skepticism and some peripheral philosophies like nihilism, fatalism, empiricism, determinism, subjective morality, etc. Myself included. I think most of us free thinkers see a definite goal for the future of the species even if no one talks about it. We want cybernetics, we want no more war, we want fair government or no government, we want star trek.
DeimosSaturn 1 year ago
@SolRosenberg84 This was one of your most insightful videos. Great job.
alphacause 1 year ago
Saganism
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
k87jury 1 year ago
correlation doesnt imply causation, but its accurate as hell.
volound 1 year ago
Materialistic spirituality?
mpalssonur 1 year ago
You have a beautful, colorful, and vivid video. You are very objective of the atheist perspecitve. I claim that there are no gods. I don't need science or religion to prove or disprove this.
We are humans first, secular second, and atheists last. We can use our humanism, secularism, and our society to provide what you are talking about. Maybe you should look into Humanism, they have something to offer and you don't have to have a god. The Brights have already started with a replacement.
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
There was a post on Pharyngula a while back discussing 'scientility' as an alternative to 'spirituality'. You should be able to find it through google. It sounds a bit awkward but you're right when you say we need to find a name our our own.
spenceII 1 year ago
I agree "atheist" is not the best word for us.
I'd use "scientist" but I'm not a researcher, which I think is the stereotypical "scientist" as shown in the media, and it's a job description not a description of beliefs.
How about "scienceist"? Or spelled "sciencist"? I know, it sounds stupid.
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ I am an atheist. i don't need science to dismiss all the mythical gods. I need to evidence to prove or disprove these matters. I am not a scientist, not even close. Do you need science or can't you just dismiss all of the gods as unbelievable or mythical. Is there anything about these gods that warrants investigation? Are Odin, Ra, Allah, or Jesus any more real than another of the other tens of thousands of mythical creatures? The answer is NO. :)
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown
1
I don't need science to disprove gods - it can't do that anyway. It shows us the truth as an alternative to religion.
The scientific method (scepticism formalised) teaches us _how_ to know what to believe in, and what to disbelieve.
I think quite a few believers would deconvert if they could understand the things James Randi, Michael Shermer etc talk about.
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ Do you consider religion to be an alternative? Science is great, but it is not needed to dismiss any of the gods? Do you need to use the scientific method to dismiss Isis or Zeus? I think science helps people dump their gods. I also know reading the Bible can lead to dumping gods. Atheists do not necessarily require science for their disbelief. I love science, they gave me dialysis and then a kidney transplant. We need more science, but gods are dismissable. :)
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown Do I consider religion to be an alternative to what? To atheism? Well, you can't be both, and a lot of people are religious, so I guess in practice they are alternative worldviews, one true and one ridiculous.
We don't need the scientific method to not believe in gods of the past, since no one still claims they exist.
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ Don't you just hate the text limits in this medium?
Do you need evidence from the Scientologist's god claims or is it as dismissable as I think it is? What about the gods claim of the Hundu? Might it be that the evidence-based atheists require proof because they used to believe in a a particular god? Are all gods the same to you as myth-gods or is there one in particular that is more possible to you? I'm not nagging or setting you up. You probably find my perspective just as odd. :)
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown
2
But without the scientific method and the sceptical attitude, we would much more easily be convinced that a modern god exists.
Science is part of the reason people become consciously atheist, rather than atheist by default, or religious from their society.
The conversion from religious faith is the difficult and important type.
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ There have always been atheists. Atheist basically comes from the Greek, but even the polytheistic Mesoamerican region had a word for us. Was it science-based disbelief? Were the ancient Egyptian atheists science based? Man seems to underestimate our ancient ancestors. Religions faith is still a minority world-view on our little blue planet. It is possible that faith might swing like the pendulum; race-wise. The scientific method is being giving a lot of credit for disbelief.
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown
3
Science provides the clear alternative explanations of things like the diversity of life (evolution vs. creation), seizures (epilepsy vs. demonic possession) and so many other things.
Without these explanations, how could any theist de-convert? What beliefs would he have to de-convert to?
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ Is this more interesting or less then dealing with a theist or agnostic?
Reading the Bible resulted in more questions than answers. I began to think I was smarter then my parents and clergyman (UMethodist). This happens to teens when they rebel. I was raped for years by my step-father as a boy. My prayers for his death went unanswered.
How could I believe. Everyone has their own horror stories, mine had only started as a boy. I was a god hater for a while. Then agnostic. Then...
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown
2
It's only as a result of science and understanding that religiosity is being squeezed out so much.
Science teaches us evolution, the universe and our place in it, human susceptibilities to pseudoscience, the paranormal and religiosity.
These ideas obviate religion, and we should be grateful for them.
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ I'll give science credit for the speed and amount.
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ I tried pantheism, it made a lot of sense, but eventually I realized I was just redefining a god I didn't believe existed. It seemed kind of simple ones I realized this. Then I discovered there was a name for it, I was an atheist and there were others. It doesn't matter how you get to be an atheist, once you are there it is a great subject of interest.
So I've come to see, through debate, that one can be ejected or jolted out of belief. I've seen rebellion as a cause. :)
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown
3
Without scientific discoveries being widely known, people would continue to resort to comforting authoritative-sounding religion and its representatives, and we could still be bleeding people to cure their illnesses, burning witches, and hating atheists.
Well, that last one is still a work in progress.
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ Man, these verify text scrambles are killing me.
It is all still a work in progress. :)
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown
4
We are the lucky ones - a scientific approach, and scepticism, are so natural to us, that we don't see their strong influence in our outlook.
You need evidence to prove or disprove things. That is the core of the _scientific_ method. You think you could have come up with that idea yourself, without science? We'll never know.
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@KrisBlueNZ Sorry, I'm not very interested in science. I like astronomy, but mostly the wonderful pictures of deep space. I took Live Science I in my first year of high school. Read the Bible, nothing causes makes a person drop Christianity faster than reading from page to page. Don't forget history, it is an area with it's methodologies and frameworks. That's my area. There have been tens of thousands of man-made gods. There are no gods. :)
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown
1
Sure, but "science" is more than the sum of scientific disciplines, it is a way of looking at things, demanding falsifiable proof and so on, which is a good way to combat theism.
And a good way to live your life.
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
@matthewtaylorbrown
2
Sure, pointing out the stupidities in the bible is a good way too, I especially like user/kalsolarUK, and history helps too, though it can allow for arguments about bias, attribution, translation, context and so on.
I guess few christians have read the bible from cover to cover. Easier for a christian to just "read the verses carefully chosen for him by his pastor".
KrisBlueNZ 1 year ago
erm...I'd call it realistic optimism or something like that.
ChaosSwissRoll 1 year ago
Well thought out and spoken. i think people who follow religion know its bull shit but the thing is its better than not following something and having faith. faith is important that emotion is a natural thing.
Your right about presenting a new image..
Olli43 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
p r o g r e s s i v e!
mattmar826 1 year ago
Your idea sort of sounds like a movement that's already present; it reminds me of secular humanism. Hrmm, interesting video nonetheless!
brittanymlove 1 year ago
Geat video! And i think you've got something there with that "dealing with reality spirituality" but you should definately put links in the info area when you refer to other videos or resources (just to make it a lot easyer to find them)
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
"Reiligion is an emotional reaction to reality." WIN!
3ncoctmebreu 1 year ago 3
I've been trying to get this message across to people for a while, I know exactly what you're talking about. That video "Atheist Spirituality" is incredibly beautiful. People fear the thought of nothing after death, and they don't truly recognize the magnificence of the reality we live in. They have the idea of spirituality meaning magical things as well
I like the name "Cosmic Existentialism" and another +1 to defining spirituality in terms of an awe and connection to reality :)
jburde 1 year ago
I read a book a while ago that deals with what he is saying. The Neo-Tech Discoveries written by frank Wallace is a rather large book about how (and I am wording this wrong, I apologize) Atheism can guide you through life. It speaks of what he calls Total Integrated Honesty, a rather scary idea, but sound. If you want to read it, look it up, but mind you, it's writer was somewhat...insane...so it reads like a prophecy. Still, it's well worth the read if you have a week or so to yourself.
skywize 1 year ago
Haha, what about "cosmic existentialism" as a possible identifying term?
I know exactly what you are talking about, and I too find myself succumbing to a naturalistic, kind of, universal understanding that is heavily derived from popularizes of science like Carl Sagan.
TheDisillusionedApe 1 year ago
Good points made.
NeedsEvidence 1 year ago
fuck this shit , mr. genius - tell me about the oil spill , get off the religious bullshit
butterball1234abcd 1 year ago
Well, maybe we can undo death if we invent time machines and send nano bots back in time to scan peoples brains just before death!
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
Well humanism and existentialism seem to be roughly along the lines you're talking about, but I doubt a neologism will sell very well. While this seems a worthwhile project I'm not sure we should really try too tie it in to atheism not least because it doesn't even require hard atheism, (Epicurus' deism springs to mind) cont.
Aletheophile 1 year ago
@Aletheophile or because you really CAN'T say much about a person's philosophy from knowing they're an atheist (we're talking about a group that includes Karl Marx, Ayn Rand, George Orwell, Nick Clegg, the Buddha, Richard Feynman, Billy Connolly and Bree Olson) After all atheism really is ONLY a lack of belief in the gods that would be redundant without theism I think it would make more sense to keep these as 2 largely independent projects.
Aletheophile 1 year ago
i have to agree with cristopher7 in his response to this vid. namely "bad idea". i think the word your looking for is "ATHEIST". looking for another word that encompasses an "atheist spirituality" based in science, logic etc is not something we should be "trying" to do. if that word exists...? it carry's with it an "expiration date" (obsolescence). time goes on, things change, battlefields are never static.
its is however a good thought, a great subject, well articulated by you. thx.
MpowerdAPE 1 year ago
Isn't the name "Secular Humanism"? I'm actually quite happy with that label. Others are not, but there exactly you will find the Atheists who wouldn't allow labels to be applied to them anyways.
websnarf 1 year ago
I think Christianity and other religions will continue to erode in the West, barring some cataclysmic event.
majinspy 1 year ago
We are unlikely to have total success - so its unlikely atheism will fade away; when athiesm's time is up, it's gone. I just hope atheism doesn't become a religion. We don't need a positive message - psychology can deal with people who have a pathological reaction to death and loss. There are many moralities that athiests can accept - the 'all things are one' view is just one valid reaction, athiesm shouldn't become a dogma imposing the idea of 'we are stardust' on people who think we moved on.
unassumption 1 year ago
Did the groups that campaigned to end slavery or prohibition progress to making a positive claim after they got what they wanted? No! They drifted apart. Once the force holding us together breaks, we'll split and join other groups that make positive claims we stick by. Athiesm is more a positive claim that religion is BS, a rejection of god, as anti-pot law people are a positive rejection of those laws. We'll become lots of little groups with different morals - as we are already underneath.
unassumption 1 year ago
Whatever the name of this thing is, it shouldn't be called a religion. That seems to imply dogma. If it includes dogma, you can count me out.
halberthawkins 1 year ago
@halberthawkins
Fuck dogma with a sharp stick. Not what I was trying to suggest at all.
I was referring to the human natural response of awe to nature, and the reality that we are one with the universe (sounds cliche but its surprisingly true). Combine that emotional cocktail with a healthy respect for evidence and you have some idea of what I was trying to get at.
SolRosenberg84 1 year ago 5
@SolRosenberg84 If you don't want to call that pantheism, then I think it's simply called being alive.
Megatopcat 1 year ago
@halberthawkins Dogma=i will not change my thinking, what ever the proof is against my way of thinking.
Atheist= i will adapt my way of thinking as i learn, and grow into a better person.
Evolution, if you do not adapt, you will become extinct.
8824snipe 1 year ago
@8824snipe Atheist means nothing of the sort. Many atheists have dogma, like the definition you just described. We have little in common and often argue amungst ourselves. We are 'not theists', that's it.
matthewtaylorbrown 1 year ago
@halberthawkins
"Atheism is not a religion, it's a personal relationship with reality" ;)
If religion can be viewed as a kind of escapism (from reality), maybe a new word could be coined that involves embracing reality: embracism. I'm not religious, I'm not spiritual, I'm embracing.
wimsweden 1 year ago
I think all we need is a few more hundred years and religions will be invalid, you can already see people only using religion in traditions of local culture. eg;non church going people having a religious wedding. The less mobile the people the more bound they are to conform to their local religion,ie;western culture has other traditions out side of religions, giving rise to even more new ideas. We are a long way off from shaking off non-believer labels but at least we can lead by example.
Mrtitmice 1 year ago
atheistic existentialism maybe?
honestly, it doesnt matter; most of mankind is terribly superstitious and irrational, they wouldnt switch sides even if we were a tax exempt organization and gave out special rings and silly hats to our members;
just call yourself a secular humanist ( a.k.a. one of the enlightened elite :D )
eyhexs 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Your absolutely right.
AtheistKharm 1 year ago
people that have a hard time with death need to realize its gonna happen no matter what. i think about it sometimes and it sucks, but then i realize how lucky i am in the first place to even be here on this planet. i believe when you know that this is your only life, you will live it like it's your only life. stop wondering what is going to happen after you die, and worry about what you are going to do while you're still alive
kiddhitta 1 year ago
tf's science, nyks philosophy, abby's art, laura's vids, btl's studies, gtf's style, nellie's dolls, Ashley's spirit, my photos, and many others.... all giving testimony to the fact that not only is there not a god, but we who know it are gonna keep on keepin' on. There are still discoveries to be made, works to be crafted, arguments to be had, victories to be celebrated, losses to be mourned, and love to be shared. The movement is already happening. Named or not, I'm really happy a part.
aMulliganStew 1 year ago
"Wonderism"? "Poetic Realism"? "Existentialists" would have been great name but the philosophers will get confused (and the hardcore ones would be outraged at the hijacking of one of their words). "Truthers" would have been great too, but some wankers got there first. "Brights" implies non-brights are "dims". "Humanism" is a close fit, but it lacks the positivity I think you're looking for.
philhellenes 1 year ago