It is written .. Their clothes did not wear out during the 40 years in the desert ... So the color blue also did not wear out or fade .. So no need to replace tzitzit ...
@Pauldaystar That seems to be a valid inference. But what is really interesting about the idea that their clothes didn't wear out is the Midrash which asks how did the babies not get new clothes as they grew bigger. The midrash answers: Go and learn from the hillazon, all the time that it grows, its shell grows with it. This statement clearly fits the description of a snail. As such, this is but one of the many statements which point to the Murex trunculus as the hillazon.
Fascinating!! B"H!! I do have an honest question, though. I can see how that once in the land, the snail could become the halakhacally "demanded" source, but how would this techelet be made in the wilderness of Sinai, where the snail was not available? I have been wondering this for some time and would appreciate some insight. Thank you!
1) Part of the goods the Jews left with from Egypt included the blue dyed wool (there is archeological evidence that ancient Egypt used the dye).
2) They had people go to Israel and acquire it there and bring it back (note that there was a well travelled trade route "derech pelishitim" between Israel and Egypt).
@mnavon Ahh- it makes sense that they left Egypt with it already and did not need to make it, as that in the terumah offering they brought the techelet, argaman, etc. they already had. This is a question I have pondered a good bit, and the answer was there all along! Thank you, Sir!
I have a question. I'm a gentile who doesn't know about what's written in the talmud and other books. But in the thousand years or so before the talmud was written, couldn't the ancient hebrews have used the plants as well? One single source wasn't commanded by God in the Torah, or was it?
You are correct that no explicit source is given in the Torah, however, this is true for a great many "implementation" details. There details were passed down orally. The Talmud (and books from that period) encapsulates those traditions – and from there we learn, explicitly, that the source of the dye was exclusively a snail; indeed, the Talmud notes that the plant source was strictly forbidden.
"Not adding" is certainly a commandment, however not applicable here. The written Torah did not specify any source for the color, so the question becomes: which source or sources are permissible. For questions like these, the oral tradition is indispensable.
The mishkan also used argaman and techelet. It seems odd that the we derive benefit from unclean animals and would put them in the mishkan, in our tzitzit... and the process, really, exposes us to the possibility of killing the animal. We were instructed to not touch the carcass of an unclean animal. Why would we allow the possibility of error? I'm confused. The indigo plant and other plant sources seem to have been created for the task of producing techelet and argaman.
1) Regarding the use of unkosher sources for kosher uses see my article "Muttar Be-fikha" which explains that only things with God's name require kosher sources.
2) We definitely kill the snail to retrieve the dye. There is no issue of "tumah" regarding sea creatures - see Mishna Keilim 17:13.
3a) The indigo plant indeed makes the same color blue as the snail but was explicitly prohibited as a dye source for tekhelet - see Baba Metzia 61.
I have a Talit with the Tekhelet thread I bought from you good folks. Thanks so much and may Hashem bless you with all the blessing in the Torah and much much more.
Great question. Due to the word count limitation on youtube which does not allow for an elaborate response, we have posted our answer on our web site. Please go the the Ptil Tekhelet web site and click on the "Tekhelet Q&As" link in the left hand menu.
Fascinating!.. Great job!.. The Romans may have started the demise of tekhelet, however, they were not the ones who caused the exil at Babylon. That was much earlier if I'm not mistaken. You may want to rephrase this if you don't want people to hear you say that the Romans caused the Jews to be exiled in Babylon.. BTW, in Babylon, tekhelet was seemingly available (see Mordechai)
You 100% correct. You are the first person in 20 years to catch this blooper. The fact is that the point of the statement in the video was to opint out that the Jews who were already in Babylon did not have access to tekhelet which came from the Meditteranean.
The Ptil Tekhelet Organization (who made this film) manufactures and distributes tekhelet (blue) string sets made from sails bought from various fisherman operating in the Mediterranean. You can lear more from the tekhelet web site - just google "Ptil Tekhelet Organization"
Do a Google search for, tekhelet, and you will find the Israeli website. I tried to include the url in a previous response to your post, but YouTube would not allow it.
It is written .. Their clothes did not wear out during the 40 years in the desert ... So the color blue also did not wear out or fade .. So no need to replace tzitzit ...
Pauldaystar 6 months ago
@Pauldaystar That seems to be a valid inference. But what is really interesting about the idea that their clothes didn't wear out is the Midrash which asks how did the babies not get new clothes as they grew bigger. The midrash answers: Go and learn from the hillazon, all the time that it grows, its shell grows with it. This statement clearly fits the description of a snail. As such, this is but one of the many statements which point to the Murex trunculus as the hillazon.
mnavon 6 months ago
Fascinating!! B"H!! I do have an honest question, though. I can see how that once in the land, the snail could become the halakhacally "demanded" source, but how would this techelet be made in the wilderness of Sinai, where the snail was not available? I have been wondering this for some time and would appreciate some insight. Thank you!
papacowboy 9 months ago
@papacowboy
There are at least 3 answers to this question:
1) Part of the goods the Jews left with from Egypt included the blue dyed wool (there is archeological evidence that ancient Egypt used the dye).
2) They had people go to Israel and acquire it there and bring it back (note that there was a well travelled trade route "derech pelishitim" between Israel and Egypt).
3) It was a miracle.
mnavon 9 months ago
@mnavon Ahh- it makes sense that they left Egypt with it already and did not need to make it, as that in the terumah offering they brought the techelet, argaman, etc. they already had. This is a question I have pondered a good bit, and the answer was there all along! Thank you, Sir!
papacowboy 9 months ago
I have a question. I'm a gentile who doesn't know about what's written in the talmud and other books. But in the thousand years or so before the talmud was written, couldn't the ancient hebrews have used the plants as well? One single source wasn't commanded by God in the Torah, or was it?
Birdboy029 11 months ago
You are correct that no explicit source is given in the Torah, however, this is true for a great many "implementation" details. There details were passed down orally. The Talmud (and books from that period) encapsulates those traditions – and from there we learn, explicitly, that the source of the dye was exclusively a snail; indeed, the Talmud notes that the plant source was strictly forbidden.
mnavon 11 months ago
@mnavon Thanks for responding! :)
The commandment of not adding to God's law comes to mind, when I hear of certain traditions.
Birdboy029 11 months ago
"Not adding" is certainly a commandment, however not applicable here. The written Torah did not specify any source for the color, so the question becomes: which source or sources are permissible. For questions like these, the oral tradition is indispensable.
mnavon 11 months ago
Tzitzit is here
TsitsitNewGeneration 11 months ago
Thanks for bringing this back to us!!
jsostheim 1 year ago
i must agree with calendar2222...its not KOSHA....
Chavelah1 1 year ago
fascinating - the journey to recovering this history via following the divine 'how to' manual!
hearingGod 2 years ago
Outstanding...thank you. 5 stars
Zadokpriesthood 2 years ago
More than a just good documentary, a real blessing. Thank you so much.
SWORDOFTRUTH9 2 years ago
The mishkan also used argaman and techelet. It seems odd that the we derive benefit from unclean animals and would put them in the mishkan, in our tzitzit... and the process, really, exposes us to the possibility of killing the animal. We were instructed to not touch the carcass of an unclean animal. Why would we allow the possibility of error? I'm confused. The indigo plant and other plant sources seem to have been created for the task of producing techelet and argaman.
calendar2222 2 years ago
1) Regarding the use of unkosher sources for kosher uses see my article "Muttar Be-fikha" which explains that only things with God's name require kosher sources.
2) We definitely kill the snail to retrieve the dye. There is no issue of "tumah" regarding sea creatures - see Mishna Keilim 17:13.
3a) The indigo plant indeed makes the same color blue as the snail but was explicitly prohibited as a dye source for tekhelet - see Baba Metzia 61.
3b) The indigo plant does not produce argaman.
mnavon 2 years ago
@calendar2222 I agree with you on that matter.
odcoolshark75 1 year ago
I have a Talit with the Tekhelet thread I bought from you good folks. Thanks so much and may Hashem bless you with all the blessing in the Torah and much much more.
Israeltekhelet 3 years ago
Thank you
ILoveYouManny 3 years ago
Have you considered checking the heteropods (carinaria, pterosoma, etc)?
They are snails with only the innerds covered with a shell.
The color of their bodies is like the sea in that they are mostly clear (transparent).
Like nearly all gastropods they have blue blood.
THey are quite often pisciform (shape of a fish) with their fin and the way they swim.
Just a thought!..
AlloBruxelles 3 years ago
Great question. Due to the word count limitation on youtube which does not allow for an elaborate response, we have posted our answer on our web site. Please go the the Ptil Tekhelet web site and click on the "Tekhelet Q&As" link in the left hand menu.
mnavon 3 years ago
Fascinating!.. Great job!.. The Romans may have started the demise of tekhelet, however, they were not the ones who caused the exil at Babylon. That was much earlier if I'm not mistaken. You may want to rephrase this if you don't want people to hear you say that the Romans caused the Jews to be exiled in Babylon.. BTW, in Babylon, tekhelet was seemingly available (see Mordechai)
AlloBruxelles 3 years ago
You 100% correct. You are the first person in 20 years to catch this blooper. The fact is that the point of the statement in the video was to opint out that the Jews who were already in Babylon did not have access to tekhelet which came from the Meditteranean.
mnavon 3 years ago
I use to make rope like that.
MannaBoBannaPeople 3 years ago
wow so cool!
FramerCid 3 years ago
thanks for rediscovering how to do this mitzvah may adonai bless u
dabombdude18 4 years ago
Shalom,
Thank you for your profesional contribution.
AL
alfteck 4 years ago
So much hard work goes in making of tzitzit.
bhatindawalla 4 years ago
do you know anyone at present fishing the murex/trunculus? Is thre a market for it?
boschev 4 years ago
The Ptil Tekhelet Organization (who made this film) manufactures and distributes tekhelet (blue) string sets made from sails bought from various fisherman operating in the Mediterranean. You can lear more from the tekhelet web site - just google "Ptil Tekhelet Organization"
mnavon 4 years ago
Thank you,
boschev 4 years ago
May you all live to be 120 years, for rediscovering the process by which we can perform this very important mitzvah once again.
tngoatee 4 years ago
I agree!! does any one know where can I buy the tekhelet thread to put on my tzitziot?
bloodcryii 4 years ago
Do a Google search for, tekhelet, and you will find the Israeli website. I tried to include the url in a previous response to your post, but YouTube would not allow it.
tngoatee 4 years ago
Great! There must be blue cord on Zitzit that is a clear Tora command.I will never exept zitzit with out that blue cord in it.
2praise 4 years ago