Everyone has forgotten what the Five Year Plan and central economic/industrial planning did for Russia (notwithstanding the bureaucratic waste and repression): it was able to turn Russia into an industrial and military superpower with a decent standard of living, in a tenth of the time it took Western nations to do the same.
Are you saying that you are prevented from finding employment that is to your liking? In free societies you are free to leave any job you do not like and find another. You are not free of the necessity to find a means to sustain yourself. To feel that to need to provide benefit or service to others in reciprocation for their money/ care and your survival is slavery is to try to defy nature where every living being acts to survive and to be a parasite on your society.
In this case, they for instance nationalized the oil, but not the oil wells. This is obviously of little comfort to the people who own the oil wells. However as long as the people who own the oil wells are being paid a reasonable fee for pumping the oil (a fee that includes covering capital costs), it's not the worst of situations. In truth I am of the personal opinion that underdeveloped countries really should try to keep their natural resources under state ownership, and licence the rights.
To say that land resources owned privately that are then nationalized is not expropriation is completely dishonest. Why would they want to twist the truth? If they do not believe in private property just say ...the government in this country owns everything, you exist here at our will and your property rights are subject to political whim.
Theft is always dishonest regardless of the perpetrator and remains a good test to determine the existence of a just society. Theft is a crime for citizens and it is also crime for states by the same standard. There is no rational reason that a state would be held to a different moral standard than that the state holds for their citizenry. Theft is theft.
It is a nature's choice to work or starve whether that work is for yourself or for others is irrelevant. You choose whether to work for yourself, form a partnership, coop, or if to work for someone else; you choose the industry, occupation, employer, job, hours, etc. with the freedom (within contract) to change your mind. Though nature determines to do nothing is to starve, to choose an occupation is not force. To be enslaved is to have these options removed from a person by force.
This is a very primitivist view of the world and what is necessary to survive in it. What you do own is your own time and talents. These are your to use to your benefit and trade as you wish. Thankfully in a market/society these things you own can be traded efficiently for all the necessities of life. The only coercion you need feel is the need to act to survive as nature demands of all living things.
Everyone has forgotten what the Five Year Plan and central economic/industrial planning did for Russia (notwithstanding the bureaucratic waste and repression): it was able to turn Russia into an industrial and military superpower with a decent standard of living, in a tenth of the time it took Western nations to do the same.
neosoc 1 year ago
Slavery is theft of wage labor. That requires involuntary participation and force.
stratvic 4 years ago
Slavery is indeed worse than wage labor, but wage labor is about as voluntary as breathing for the overwhelming majority of any given population.
Malsadhu 4 years ago
Are you saying that you are prevented from finding employment that is to your liking? In free societies you are free to leave any job you do not like and find another. You are not free of the necessity to find a means to sustain yourself. To feel that to need to provide benefit or service to others in reciprocation for their money/ care and your survival is slavery is to try to defy nature where every living being acts to survive and to be a parasite on your society.
stratvic 3 years ago
Nationalizing private property is expropriation.
stratvic 4 years ago
In this case, they for instance nationalized the oil, but not the oil wells. This is obviously of little comfort to the people who own the oil wells. However as long as the people who own the oil wells are being paid a reasonable fee for pumping the oil (a fee that includes covering capital costs), it's not the worst of situations. In truth I am of the personal opinion that underdeveloped countries really should try to keep their natural resources under state ownership, and licence the rights.
Panpiper 4 years ago 4
To say that land resources owned privately that are then nationalized is not expropriation is completely dishonest. Why would they want to twist the truth? If they do not believe in private property just say ...the government in this country owns everything, you exist here at our will and your property rights are subject to political whim.
stratvic 4 years ago
To steal the labor and lifeblood of a people is even more dishonest.
Malsadhu 4 years ago
Theft is always dishonest regardless of the perpetrator and remains a good test to determine the existence of a just society. Theft is a crime for citizens and it is also crime for states by the same standard. There is no rational reason that a state would be held to a different moral standard than that the state holds for their citizenry. Theft is theft.
stratvic 4 years ago
And wage labor is theft; what's your point?
Malsadhu 4 years ago
Wage labor is voluntary exchange..foolish comment.
stratvic 4 years ago
Wage labor is inherently coercive, since a worker is effectively forced to sell their labor in order to survive.
Malsadhu 4 years ago 2
It is a nature's choice to work or starve whether that work is for yourself or for others is irrelevant. You choose whether to work for yourself, form a partnership, coop, or if to work for someone else; you choose the industry, occupation, employer, job, hours, etc. with the freedom (within contract) to change your mind. Though nature determines to do nothing is to starve, to choose an occupation is not force. To be enslaved is to have these options removed from a person by force.
stratvic 4 years ago
You are coerced to work for others, in adavanced capitalist societies there is no land left for free agriculture and animal raising.
bonobo80 3 years ago
This is a very primitivist view of the world and what is necessary to survive in it. What you do own is your own time and talents. These are your to use to your benefit and trade as you wish. Thankfully in a market/society these things you own can be traded efficiently for all the necessities of life. The only coercion you need feel is the need to act to survive as nature demands of all living things.
stratvic 3 years ago