Added: 4 years ago
From: patmagroin20
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  • LOL HAI GUYS JEFF CLUMPUS HERE

  • Rest in peace Barty Brooks, your sabre dance film saved the lives of many f-100 pilots after you. This was someone elses ride that day, but Bart took the ferrying job so his buddy could go on leave to see family. they say he was a great guy and a better pilot. "Oh don't give me that one double oh- to fight againtst friendly or fo- that sabre dance made me crap my pants- dont give me that one double oh!!!"

  • @5mrmotor Thanks for the information you put this in perspective and made a sad clip even more so,and your poem on the f-100 was like the true meaning of pathos.

  • @MrFattyfatfatboy Thank you for your kind words and fellow apreciation for a great aviator. the poem,however, I can not take credit for, I read it in an old book of fighter pilot songs. it sure gets the point across!

  • Comment removed

  • Did the pilot survive?

  • @MrAvalanche2004

    No he did not, I read an article that said they found his body still strapped into his seat less than 2 minutes after the crash.

  • @patmagroin20 they refer to this in "bury us upside down". apparently they showed this to pilots training to fly the f100 in vietnam to scare the out the meek. they called it the "Sabre Dance movie". glad you posted it!

  • This is referred to as a tip stall.

  • when an airplane with swept wings loses lift on wings, it loses more on one wing and little on other ,then wing with more lift -raise, other dove in .F 100 Departure low height

  • The F-100 was a magnificent fighter for its day, but it was absolutely unforgiving of getting too low and too slow. The swept wing was inherently spin-prone in a stall, no matter where or at what speed that stall occured. "Wings Over Europe" is a video game that gives us the only simulated F-100 available for the PC, and its stall in that game is much, much too docile.

  • @riderpoet Thirdwire sims stall is too docile on everyplane (one of the reasons to have it labeled as light simulator). Hell, you cant even stall an F-4 by trying a hard turn at 200 knots.

  • The man didn't die from the crash, the canopy actually separated from the airframe they found him unscathed removed his oxygen mask and puke poured out...He drowned in his own vomit...Thats how he died.

  • Sabre dance....swept wings cause air to flow outwards as well as back over the wing. This accumulates and increases toward the wingtips. Eventually lowering the lift of the wingtips. As the wingtips are located behind the center of gravity the plane will suddenly nose up when the wingtips begin to stall. this pitch up lowers airspeed even more and exacerbates the problem.

  • @ lonewolfintj Listen any aircraft, once slowed, is attempting to stall before landing often only a few feet off the ground for a fighter. This allows for the wind to gather under the airfoils creating the sabre dance. Look up Colonel John R Boyd and buy the book, " The fighter pilot who changed the art of war, it will explain everything, and I'm done arguing with you until you can find a verified credible source for me. and yes the engine was involved, but only on the problem with the airfoil

  • @boydseagle writes: "Listen any aircraft, once slowed, is attempting to stall before landing often only a few feet off the ground for a fighter." That's not even English. It uses English words, but scrambles them like word salad. A warrior is landing an airplane a few feet above the ground? If a plane is a few feet off the ground, it's not on land. A plane being landed is "attempting to stall"? No, it is not. Credible sources? No, use logic instead. The engine was on the airfoil? WTF?

  • @ lonewolfintj Listen any aircraft, once slowed, is attempting to stall before landing often only a few feet off the ground for a fighter. This allows for the wind to gather under the airfoils creating the sabre dance. Look up Colonel John R Boyd and buy the book, " The fighter pilot who changed the art of war, it will explain everything, and I'm done arguing with you until you can find a verified credible source for me. and yes the engine was involved, but only on the problem with the airfoil

  • This is the "flipped" image film included in "The Hunters" - the original had the Super Sabre moving from left to right...

  • ('Sabre dance')

  • One of the most notorious incidents was the loss of F-100C-20-NA Super Sabre 54-1907 during an attempted emergency landing at Edwards AFB, California on January 10, 1956. By chance, this particular incident was recorded in detail on 16 mm film by cameras set up to cover an unrelated test. The pilot fought desperately to retain control as he rode the edge of the flight envelope, but his F-100 fell off on one wing, slammed sideways into the runway and exploded, killing him. From wikip-.

  • This is a rather well known piece of footage and shows, as drogier says, the pitch up phenomena that affected the early F100. i believe it was to some extent ameliorated with a retrofitted pitch damper.

  • @Wayzgoosey Actually it was a problem with the yaw, and there was a fighter maneuver called flat plating the bird by Colonel John Boyd(Ret.) and it was caused by when he would hit high speeds then brace his elbows against the cockpit, and pull back on the throttle, he would loose speed, stomp on the rudder, come around, and take out his adversary, he's the one that found the problem that was modified. If you look at my name I am really into biographies about this guy, he was quite remarkable.

  • Ummm, no. This airplane is clearly having pitch problems, not yaw problems. (Look up "yaw" and "pitch" in your dictionary before using them next time, and polish your glasses.) At the end, he has a roll problem (probably because he stalled) and that's what did him in. Wiki Sabre_dance_(aviation) . Probably, not getting enough engine thrust, else he'd just go around. You couldn't land that plane slow; if you tried, it pitched up then stalled. Just as you see in this video.

  • @lonewolfintj ... I meant pitch... he used the yaw of the aircraft to his advantage, and it had nothing to do with thrust, next time this comes up, I'll quote the book and dilemma to you, not wiki.

  • @boydseagle : Yaw (direction) wouldn't help a Sabre dance; it's irrelevant and would not be to the pilot's "advantage". Every Sabre dance I've ever heard of has ended up with the pilot dead. And yes, engine thrust has *everything* to do with it. That plane had to be landed fast; if you tried to land it slow, it pitched up and stalled, which was called the "Sabre dance". Hence if the engine was low on thrust, it usually crashed on landing. Look up Sabre_dance_(aviation) in Wikipedia.

  • My dad barely escaped a sabre dance in the late 50's during take-off of an F-100. He rotated a bit early thanks to an airspeed indicator error. The instant he recognized the approaching stall, he slammed the stick forward fully expecting to crash, but figured crashing belly first was better than The Dance. The plane recovered! The landing gear barely touched down for a moment, then the he took off normally. Had he reacted one millisecond later.... he likely would have been smoked.

  • @RingoNot : Yes. Pointing the nose *down* while in a semi-stall state a few feet off the ground is the last thing a pilot *wants* to do; the instinct is to apply full power and yank back hard on the stick. But yanking back just makes problem worse by increasing the angle of attack ("alpha"). Only hope of survival is to lower the nose; if you lower alpha, you *might* just save the plane. As your dad apparently found out. Congrats to him on a gutsy recovery!

  • Does "behind the power curve" ring a bell? I went through pilot training in 1968 in TX. This film wasw shown to reflect that phenomon......

  • It was known as the "Sabre Dance". A large number of aircraft where lost to this phenomenon whilst landing.

  • @drogier That was an operational problem in normal flight, inertial coupling of yaw and roll leading to a pitch-up and break-up of the plane or simply loss of control. This is more likely just control-surface or thrust problems.

  • Your free to believe what you want... However, if you do a little research on the film at hand, I'm sure you'll come to the right conclusion. Unless of course the USAF was incorrect in their findings anyway.

    Wiki

    F-100C-20-NA Super Sabre 54-1907

    Sabre dance (aviation)

    Cheers!

  • Interesting - I stand rebuked! I was thinking of George Welch.

    On looking at the F-100 again, I can see hints of the Space Shuttle in the lines. North American had good lines!

  • Mr Larch, With all due respect, this was a phenomenon known as "pitch-up" caused by the stalling of the outboard sections of the wings. Because of the "sweptback" designs of the wings, the outboard sections behind the aircrafts center of gravity stalled first, with the forward sections still generating lift in front the COG causing the nose to pitch up. The "pitch-up" further acerbated the situation by causing even higher AOA (angle of attack) and stalling the wings even further.

  • nice, thanks for the additional info

  • My dad flew F-100s. This almost happened to him once. We both saw this clip on TV. He said this guy got caught in the classic "dance of death" or "fire dance", by stalling the F-100. The F-100 was notorious for its lousy ability to recover from stalls. If the pilot hit the throttle, even afterburner, it had a tendency to jack the nose higher and make the stall worse, and make it dance around on its tail. Hence "fire dance" and "dance of death"

    john

    fabulousrocketeersDOTcom

  • @AugustusLarch Are you sure? I thought this was the Sabre Dance in action, the stalling action of the swept wing changing the aircrafts centre of lift, excaberating the problem.

  • @HonestJack

    Yes the swept wing has something to do with it. This video shows how any airplane with jet power can choke the flow to the compressor. The F-80 Shooting Star had similar problems. Any aircrft with smaller oval shaped compresser intakes could have problems with losing power at critical moments.

  • @AugustusLarch thats not true, this wa the sabre dance. the wings lose lift near the rear so the lift comes from farther up, raising the nose causing more lift to e lost at the rear. This happened to the point of crashing

  • @pikpikcabon

    What you are describing is the progression of a wing stall. That is exactly what happened.

  • @AugustusLarch Totally incorrect...there is nothing about ground effect that limits an aircraft to 12 degrees of pitch, and aircraft regularly exceed that, especially military aircraft.

    The crash in the video was caused by the "Sabre Dance", the USAF pilots' term for the stall behavior of the swept-wing F-100. Due to the swept wing, the aircraft stalled at the wingtip first, pushing the center of lift forward and further increasing the pitch angle, worsening the stall until the crash.

  • @RangerPilot

    I was refering to the compressor inlet. There was factors with the powerplant here as well.

  • @RangerPilot The stall occurred at the final moment before impact. The aircraft was in a throttle lock in afterburner. The pilot was trying to lower the nose which resulted in an increase of speed, he countered with the increase of angle of attack.

  • @AugustusLarch wat in the fuck are you talking about, btw I am actually a pilot, stop smoking pot

  • @RaiderDestroyer

    The compressor can't get enough air from the intake because a high alpha and low airspeed enviroment. Otherwise the engine would have plenty of power to make the machine climb.

  • he is dead

  • It's called the Sabre Dance

  • This crash scene has been used in many movie scenes. I know I remember seeing it in a movie called "The Bees" which starred John Saxon around 1978 or so. This film was released shortly after "The Swarm" was shown in theaters in 1977. Anyway, do they know what caused this crash out of curiosity?

    Ken Palmer

  • Also in the movie 'X-15'.

  • poor guy and sabre the super sabre was the king of south vietnam while the thud was king of the north

  • crashman is right, as is seevee1969. The Super Sabre in the video was behind the power curve, but also had experienced hydraulic failure. Back in the day, ejection technology hadn't advanced to the point it is today, and the pilot was too low to eject. There but by the grace of God go all of us...

  • its too bad ejection seats wer not available(or if they were not zero zero seats.)

  • No, they had them, but there weren't any zero/zero seats yet. My father flew F-100 C's and D's.

  • He did ejected but way too late, the brief flash u see just on impact is ejection seat made. Pilot survived initial crash but died shortly after wards.

  • i doubt it.

  • the saber dance was a notorious control flaw seen most clearly in the F-100. it occurred when pilots over rotated on takeoff, or in this case during the high speed flare during an emergency landing. basically the aircraft does not want to fly just yet and loses directional control while still in ground effect. two options remain. one, maintain directional control...an almost impossible task or two, eject eject eject. it was named the saber dance because of the motion of the aircraft.

  • it wasn't due to pilot error, it was due to the profile of the wing. certain low speed conditions, like during landing, cause the sabre to lose lift at its wingtips (toward the rear due to swept design) and therefore, pitch upwards. Especially hard to control since there's essentially no lift on some parts of the wing.

  • Well, the F-100 Super Sabre DID have a nose tuck-under design problem at high speeds, and lost a lot of control authority at the lower left corner of its flight envelope, but this is a 'tail-stand' (i.e. remaining airborne by thrust alone, mostly) caused by getting WAY behind the power curve. Argue if you want, but you'll be arguing with my 30 yrs of piloting experience..

  • Silly me! I thought this vid was commonly named the "Sabre dance" because that was the NAME OF THIS AIRPLANE. F-100 Super Sabre- get it?

  • The maneuver was named the Sabre Dance in allusion to Kachaturian's piece.

  • lol..

  • That is weird sound. You should say "I am suck".

  • that really stinks for that dude. My grandfather flew those during the cold war.

  • That dude is cooked

  • Its the saber dance

  • "Sabre Dance": The most notorious incident was the loss of F-100C-20-NA Super Sabre 54-1907 during an attempted emergency landing at Edwards AFB, California on January 10, 1956 which was caught by film cameras set up for an unrelated test. The pilot fought to retain control as he rode the edge of the flight envelope, but fell off on one wing, hit the ground, and exploded with fatal results. These scenes were inserted in the movie Hunters, starring Robert Mitchum and Robert Wagner.

  • @seevee1969 Right out of wiki.

  • @seevee1969 -

    you should have noted your source, you copied the entire thing from wikipedia. At least make an attempt, it's polite

  • they used this clip in pensacola wings of gold season 2 when a female student crashed her f-18 during training but its a f-100

  • This scene was also used in the movie "The Hunters", about F-86's, but of course it is an F-100. Movie was from late 50's and starred Robert Mitchum and Robert Wagner. Probably the BEST F-86 footage in a movie.

  • Ouch

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