Smart move. A lot of catch people are anti-belts because they think it's artificial and you should survive on reputation, but it's a psychological thing that people want, as Neil says, "something to show for your work".
People will be less likely to try out catch to begin with - especially people who aren't necessarily training for fights - when they can't set goals for themselves.
Now they can: "Working for my such and such stripe", etc.
I went there and trained with Neil just for the day while I was in Vegas last year. Even though he knew I was only there for the day he still gave me plenty of attention and helped me just like everyone else in the class. Good guy.
I did find it funny how monotonous he was when he mentioned how exited he was for the program :)
How about Ricardo almeida? Matt Serra? all great grapplers. just becuase some one hasnt trained an adcc champion does not mean they cant have a valid opinion. He has trained some really great guys. and no its wasnt what made him that good. he rolled mostly no gi with rickson
and then after ten years of gi on and off he never put it back on that was twenty years ago or so. you cant credit his technique to the gi since he hasn't trained in it for twenty years. Rickson trained more without the gi than he did in the gi back in the day. Why is he it he crushed every one else including every other gracie?
@TJH6408 what makes you think rickson trained a lot without the gi,i trained in LA back in the mid 90s for a few summers in ricksons school and I gather his no gi work was mostly just leading up to mma fights,he and every other brazilian was mostly gi.I did both as they help different parts of your game.
Sure they train both. but i bet you none of them train in the go getting ready for a comp like that. Thats like training in a gi getting ready for a fight. Dumb.They are two different animals. You cant hang with a good no gi guy and he cant hang in the gi its that simple.
Wow. I am completely shocked at the level of idiocy displayed here via the comments. To begin with, those of you who don't know how to read or just care less to study your history - Bjj: Basically Just Judo OR Basically Japanese Jujutsu...take your pick. Either way, the Gracie Family took the gi/kimono (japanese words), the colored belt system and ALL of the techniques they learned (which are very small compared to Japanese Jujutsu) ALL FROM JAPANESE MARTIAL ARTS.
@onetoonepointsix I agree when i first read the story it shocked me how people jumped on bjj when it's just truly japanese ju jitsu/judo...they just changed they belt rankings
@ALLENLAVENDER19 modern judo is quite different from bjj in many ways.The dont teach it as a defense against strikers,doesnt have anything like the sophistication of newaza and spends most of the time on throws.The objective of bjj is the submission ,of judo the ippon throw.The sporting ruleset is completely different also.Kosen judo is very like bjj but still less sophisticated on the ground.The ufc is responsible for the popularity of bjj ,it would be unknown without it.
Doesnt stop them from being one of the most badass families on the planet.Sure they took moves from them but it was the philosphy behind the moves that changed the art. Japanese jujitsu was for more powerful people, it was explosive. still is. BJJ not so much. fighting of your back.. new concept. tell me where judo has that? since on your back is ippon?
@TJH6408 you are clueless lad.The japanese are smaller and weaker than brazilians and europeans,why would they have strength moves more than bjj.It was the focus on real fighting that made bjj different .They didnt learn jujitsu they learned kodokan judo.Also at the time judo was very heavy on groundwork ,now its much less.The guard is entirely a judo concept that was developed even further by bjj.Also,being on your back isnt ippon,being thrown on your back is
if you're doing no gi, you shouldn't be getting a belt! please stop doing this! only gi bjj should be getting rewarded by getting a belt. he says its an "art in and of itself" if it's an art itself, than get a different system for doing belts or rewarding people. No gi is great, gi is more technical, etc. a "black belt" in no gi will NOT be the same caliber as a grappler in gi. end of story.
Bullshit. You take that gi off and come roll with me. you just lost half your techniques. If i come to roll with you in a gi all mine are still there. Craig kukuk my instructor siad when a gi person takes that gi off he drops a belt rank in no gi. You fucked up gi guys are turning this shit into judo. What are we goign to go for pins next its the same damn art.. if i throw some one with a gi on and then throw someone with a no gi. IS it still a throw? yes, yes it is.
@TJH6408 Never heard of Craig Kukuk. I do not know of a single grappler in the ADCC, BJJ NO Gi, or any other sub orientated grappling art that has made it to the top without training in the gi. I can actually think of Josh Barnett, but other than that the vast majority of grapplers be they Judo, Sambo, or BJJ have ALL trained in the gi. No gi is about athleticism, Gi is about skill and technique. ALL the top grapplers know this and that's why they train in BOTH. But Gi should be the base for all
I think if you have never heard of Craig kukuk you should do more research and get to know your art better. He was the first eve american bjj black belt in the country. Had academies in California and a few on the east coast taught for rickson for Christ sakes. Give him a gi black belt and watch him tear through him like paper.
@TJH6408 he was never coaching for rickson,he got a black with rorian ,then fell out with them and got one from royler in brazil eventually.He started training in the mid 80s and would have trained almost exclusively gi until he left renzo in the mid 90s approx.
@woolrocks it's totally the same with badminton and tennis... i don't know anyone who plays tennis at the top level without first paying their dues in the badminton world...
@drshabang That is a STUPID analogy, and stupid sarcasm. Badminton and tennis are two totally different sports, sure they are related, but not like BJJ, Sub Grappling, Sambo, Catch Wrestling, etc. are all related. THE VAST MAJORITY OF SUCCESSFUL GRAPPLERS WHO FOCUS ON SUBMISSIONS AT THE WORLD ELITE LEVEL HAVE ALL TRAINED IN THE GI!!! COUNTLESS OF THE WORLD'S ELITE GRAPPLERS ATTRIBUTE THEIR SKILLS AND TECHNICALITY TO THE GI!!! WHY CAN'T YOU ASSHOLES UNDERSTAND THAT?
@woolrocks I'm not saying that there aren't cross overs, it's just that the only way to really do submission training is to find a judo/bjj club where they wear a gi as standard... I'm just saying, you wouldn't train for tennis by playing badminton would you? Unless you could only find badminton schools...
@woolrocks well, so long as you've spoken directly to "all of the top grapplers in the world", how can I argue... incidentally, could you please list "all of the top grapplers in the world" for me?
@billysue2 Actually in his whole time training he has worn the gi for a total of 4 hours. But yeah exactly, to say you need to train in a gi to be good at no gi is like saying you need to train Judo to be good at Greco. It is just stupid.
@TJH6408 I roll in gi and no gi. I focus mostly on the gi. I ENJOY both! I have competed in several tournaments in no go, and I have placed EVERY single time even though I train gi 95% of the time. We've known this for ages: gi makes one more technical and skilled, no gi makes one more athletic and explosive. That's not to say that gi cannot be athletic and explosive, or that no gi cannot be skilled and technical, but I (and many of the world's top grapplers) believe gi is the key to success.
@TJH6408 whatever Craig Kukkuk hasn't produced any scucceful grapplers himself. He trained gi for many years under the gracies. That's why his technique is as good as it is. But till he brings somone from white to black in no-gi. and they are winning adcc. Then he can say something about the gi training useless. A lot of ppl are just training to different. The gi was good for you but it's not good for your students. I call that nonesene. Same shit goes for eddie bravo.
i am not big fun of ppl who have never put on a gi getting black belts. The gi game is way more encompassing and detalied than the no gi game. the fact your train pure no gi means u probably won't be good at gi. however the gi guys transition much quicker to no gi, cuz the gi game is way more technical. Why are ppl taking th meaning out of black belt. I personly think randy couture does not need or deserve a bb in bjj. I don't know but i am preety sure he has never won one b4.
WTF are you douchebags talking about mcdojo. Xtreme Couture puts out some of the best fighters in the world. You pussies wouldn't dare step into the cage with any of them. What's the difference, you wear a gi, you get a belt, but if you don't wear a gi and get a belt, then it's a mcdojo lol god I love the logic.
@uckushtar so what? extreme couture guys are not submssion oriented, they are predominatly wrestlers. the just train bjj , mostly just to defend against it. So yeah, the bjj belts are mcdojo, at least the one randy couture got.. Needless to say, they are good ground and pound guys, they are good mma guys.
Neil Melanson Has A Black Belt Under Karo Paryisan....In What ? Karo Has A BB In Judo.....And Neil Can Call His "System" Catch Wrestling Or Whatever But It Looks Like BJJ To Me....He Even Had An Instructional On Octopus Guard....The Octopus Guard Is BJJ
so wait a min.. Looks like bjj huh? Then why the fuck does every say you shouldnt be promoted in no gi? ITs bjj right? Then why not? The gi not more technical.. its its own game. Take the gi off and roll with a no gi guy. I bet you the no gi guy is smoother and has better technique at no gi.
Wrong. Every No Gi Champ Is....You Guessed It,,,,Trains In A Gi. So You're Telling Me All The GI Guys That Enter And Win No Gi Comps....Well They Won But The True No Gi Guys Had Smoother And Better Technique ?
@rattsnakeratt Cant be mcdojo if you earn them. Look up the damn definition of mcdojo..pumping out belts for money. I bet that guy would tool you... and probably your instructor too if you even have one.
There is an "universal means" to track and rank skill level in NoGI or Submission Grappling: Novice, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced/Expert/Pro. This is ridiculous. Bad for the Sport™.
sound like a great idea for people who never train with a gi, this way they can stay motivated .. but i cant understand what's the difference between no gi bjj and what you guys are training apart from the competition rules the dont allow all leg locks for lower belts .. and yeah the points are slightly different
@bilbaisim I am pretty sure No-gi BJJ isnt really any different from what he is doing, but to get ranked in BJJ you pretty much have to train in a gi. Unless you go with Chris Brennan or Eddie Bravo.
I like this idea. Goals are important and I don't want to use the gi. So this is good for me.
jscarpa2002 5 months ago
Fantastic!!!!
Ringtribe 10 months ago
Smart move. A lot of catch people are anti-belts because they think it's artificial and you should survive on reputation, but it's a psychological thing that people want, as Neil says, "something to show for your work".
People will be less likely to try out catch to begin with - especially people who aren't necessarily training for fights - when they can't set goals for themselves.
Now they can: "Working for my such and such stripe", etc.
JBMontgomery87 11 months ago
I went there and trained with Neil just for the day while I was in Vegas last year. Even though he knew I was only there for the day he still gave me plenty of attention and helped me just like everyone else in the class. Good guy.
I did find it funny how monotonous he was when he mentioned how exited he was for the program :)
mattsoprock 11 months ago
do they focus on take downs to
slickluw88 1 year ago
How did you get those stripe if no gi?
SucksProductions 1 year ago
How about Ricardo almeida? Matt Serra? all great grapplers. just becuase some one hasnt trained an adcc champion does not mean they cant have a valid opinion. He has trained some really great guys. and no its wasnt what made him that good. he rolled mostly no gi with rickson
TJH6408 1 year ago
@TJH6408
and then after ten years of gi on and off he never put it back on that was twenty years ago or so. you cant credit his technique to the gi since he hasn't trained in it for twenty years. Rickson trained more without the gi than he did in the gi back in the day. Why is he it he crushed every one else including every other gracie?
TJH6408 1 year ago
@TJH6408 what makes you think rickson trained a lot without the gi,i trained in LA back in the mid 90s for a few summers in ricksons school and I gather his no gi work was mostly just leading up to mma fights,he and every other brazilian was mostly gi.I did both as they help different parts of your game.
billysue2 9 months ago
IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO MG, THEN ALL HOPE IS LOST
"type marcelo garcia gi video" watch the arte suave clip
woolrocks 1 year ago
Sure they train both. but i bet you none of them train in the go getting ready for a comp like that. Thats like training in a gi getting ready for a fight. Dumb.They are two different animals. You cant hang with a good no gi guy and he cant hang in the gi its that simple.
TJH6408 1 year ago
I think it's an awesome idea guys... Gives you an idea of who knows what.. Gives your student a sense of achievment!!! Nice work...
titochuck 1 year ago
Wow. I am completely shocked at the level of idiocy displayed here via the comments. To begin with, those of you who don't know how to read or just care less to study your history - Bjj: Basically Just Judo OR Basically Japanese Jujutsu...take your pick. Either way, the Gracie Family took the gi/kimono (japanese words), the colored belt system and ALL of the techniques they learned (which are very small compared to Japanese Jujutsu) ALL FROM JAPANESE MARTIAL ARTS.
onetoonepointsix 1 year ago
@onetoonepointsix I agree when i first read the story it shocked me how people jumped on bjj when it's just truly japanese ju jitsu/judo...they just changed they belt rankings
ALLENLAVENDER19 1 year ago
@ALLENLAVENDER19 modern judo is quite different from bjj in many ways.The dont teach it as a defense against strikers,doesnt have anything like the sophistication of newaza and spends most of the time on throws.The objective of bjj is the submission ,of judo the ippon throw.The sporting ruleset is completely different also.Kosen judo is very like bjj but still less sophisticated on the ground.The ufc is responsible for the popularity of bjj ,it would be unknown without it.
billysue2 9 months ago
@onetoonepointsix
Doesnt stop them from being one of the most badass families on the planet.Sure they took moves from them but it was the philosphy behind the moves that changed the art. Japanese jujitsu was for more powerful people, it was explosive. still is. BJJ not so much. fighting of your back.. new concept. tell me where judo has that? since on your back is ippon?
TJH6408 1 year ago
@TJH6408 you are clueless lad.The japanese are smaller and weaker than brazilians and europeans,why would they have strength moves more than bjj.It was the focus on real fighting that made bjj different .They didnt learn jujitsu they learned kodokan judo.Also at the time judo was very heavy on groundwork ,now its much less.The guard is entirely a judo concept that was developed even further by bjj.Also,being on your back isnt ippon,being thrown on your back is
billysue2 9 months ago
if you're doing no gi, you shouldn't be getting a belt! please stop doing this! only gi bjj should be getting rewarded by getting a belt. he says its an "art in and of itself" if it's an art itself, than get a different system for doing belts or rewarding people. No gi is great, gi is more technical, etc. a "black belt" in no gi will NOT be the same caliber as a grappler in gi. end of story.
woolrocks 1 year ago
@woolrocks
Bullshit. You take that gi off and come roll with me. you just lost half your techniques. If i come to roll with you in a gi all mine are still there. Craig kukuk my instructor siad when a gi person takes that gi off he drops a belt rank in no gi. You fucked up gi guys are turning this shit into judo. What are we goign to go for pins next its the same damn art.. if i throw some one with a gi on and then throw someone with a no gi. IS it still a throw? yes, yes it is.
TJH6408 1 year ago
@TJH6408 Never heard of Craig Kukuk. I do not know of a single grappler in the ADCC, BJJ NO Gi, or any other sub orientated grappling art that has made it to the top without training in the gi. I can actually think of Josh Barnett, but other than that the vast majority of grapplers be they Judo, Sambo, or BJJ have ALL trained in the gi. No gi is about athleticism, Gi is about skill and technique. ALL the top grapplers know this and that's why they train in BOTH. But Gi should be the base for all
woolrocks 1 year ago
@woolrocks
I think if you have never heard of Craig kukuk you should do more research and get to know your art better. He was the first eve american bjj black belt in the country. Had academies in California and a few on the east coast taught for rickson for Christ sakes. Give him a gi black belt and watch him tear through him like paper.
TJH6408 1 year ago
@TJH6408 he was never coaching for rickson,he got a black with rorian ,then fell out with them and got one from royler in brazil eventually.He started training in the mid 80s and would have trained almost exclusively gi until he left renzo in the mid 90s approx.
billysue2 9 months ago
@woolrocks it's totally the same with badminton and tennis... i don't know anyone who plays tennis at the top level without first paying their dues in the badminton world...
drshabang 1 year ago
@drshabang That is a STUPID analogy, and stupid sarcasm. Badminton and tennis are two totally different sports, sure they are related, but not like BJJ, Sub Grappling, Sambo, Catch Wrestling, etc. are all related. THE VAST MAJORITY OF SUCCESSFUL GRAPPLERS WHO FOCUS ON SUBMISSIONS AT THE WORLD ELITE LEVEL HAVE ALL TRAINED IN THE GI!!! COUNTLESS OF THE WORLD'S ELITE GRAPPLERS ATTRIBUTE THEIR SKILLS AND TECHNICALITY TO THE GI!!! WHY CAN'T YOU ASSHOLES UNDERSTAND THAT?
woolrocks 1 year ago
@woolrocks I'm not saying that there aren't cross overs, it's just that the only way to really do submission training is to find a judo/bjj club where they wear a gi as standard... I'm just saying, you wouldn't train for tennis by playing badminton would you? Unless you could only find badminton schools...
drshabang 1 year ago
@drshabang that's true, however, all of the top grapplers in the world use the gi to obtain their full grappling potential
woolrocks 1 year ago
@woolrocks well, so long as you've spoken directly to "all of the top grapplers in the world", how can I argue... incidentally, could you please list "all of the top grapplers in the world" for me?
drshabang 1 year ago
@woolrocks Jake shields has never trained in a gi.....ever.
kn1feonly 1 year ago
@kn1feonly and monsen ,dave terell also havent worn one for years(shields did up to purple belt),lots of jap grapplers dont also
billysue2 9 months ago
@billysue2 Actually in his whole time training he has worn the gi for a total of 4 hours. But yeah exactly, to say you need to train in a gi to be good at no gi is like saying you need to train Judo to be good at Greco. It is just stupid.
kn1feonly 9 months ago
@woolrocks Randy Couture hung in there with Jacare in ADCC,watch it
badbeatbobby 7 months ago
@TJH6408 I roll in gi and no gi. I focus mostly on the gi. I ENJOY both! I have competed in several tournaments in no go, and I have placed EVERY single time even though I train gi 95% of the time. We've known this for ages: gi makes one more technical and skilled, no gi makes one more athletic and explosive. That's not to say that gi cannot be athletic and explosive, or that no gi cannot be skilled and technical, but I (and many of the world's top grapplers) believe gi is the key to success.
woolrocks 1 year ago
@TJH6408 whatever Craig Kukkuk hasn't produced any scucceful grapplers himself. He trained gi for many years under the gracies. That's why his technique is as good as it is. But till he brings somone from white to black in no-gi. and they are winning adcc. Then he can say something about the gi training useless. A lot of ppl are just training to different. The gi was good for you but it's not good for your students. I call that nonesene. Same shit goes for eddie bravo.
GHRepresent 1 year ago
@GHRepresent learn to spell
badbeatbobby 7 months ago
@badbeatbobby why don't u spell check for me. my fucking secretary.
GHRepresent 7 months ago
i am not big fun of ppl who have never put on a gi getting black belts. The gi game is way more encompassing and detalied than the no gi game. the fact your train pure no gi means u probably won't be good at gi. however the gi guys transition much quicker to no gi, cuz the gi game is way more technical. Why are ppl taking th meaning out of black belt. I personly think randy couture does not need or deserve a bb in bjj. I don't know but i am preety sure he has never won one b4.
GHRepresent 1 year ago
Comment removed
tomgaughan 1 year ago
WTF are you douchebags talking about mcdojo. Xtreme Couture puts out some of the best fighters in the world. You pussies wouldn't dare step into the cage with any of them. What's the difference, you wear a gi, you get a belt, but if you don't wear a gi and get a belt, then it's a mcdojo lol god I love the logic.
uckushtar 1 year ago 2
@uckushtar so what? extreme couture guys are not submssion oriented, they are predominatly wrestlers. the just train bjj , mostly just to defend against it. So yeah, the bjj belts are mcdojo, at least the one randy couture got.. Needless to say, they are good ground and pound guys, they are good mma guys.
GHRepresent 1 year ago
Neil Melanson Has A Black Belt Under Karo Paryisan....In What ? Karo Has A BB In Judo.....And Neil Can Call His "System" Catch Wrestling Or Whatever But It Looks Like BJJ To Me....He Even Had An Instructional On Octopus Guard....The Octopus Guard Is BJJ
omar2000089 1 year ago
@omar2000089
so wait a min.. Looks like bjj huh? Then why the fuck does every say you shouldnt be promoted in no gi? ITs bjj right? Then why not? The gi not more technical.. its its own game. Take the gi off and roll with a no gi guy. I bet you the no gi guy is smoother and has better technique at no gi.
TJH6408 1 year ago
@TJH6408
Wrong. Every No Gi Champ Is....You Guessed It,,,,Trains In A Gi. So You're Telling Me All The GI Guys That Enter And Win No Gi Comps....Well They Won But The True No Gi Guys Had Smoother And Better Technique ?
omar2000089 1 year ago
McDojo belts
rattsnakeratt 1 year ago
@rattsnakeratt Cant be mcdojo if you earn them. Look up the damn definition of mcdojo..pumping out belts for money. I bet that guy would tool you... and probably your instructor too if you even have one.
TJH6408 1 year ago
What exactly do you use these belts for? To hold your rash guard closed?
papertrail44 1 year ago
There is an "universal means" to track and rank skill level in NoGI or Submission Grappling: Novice, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced/Expert/Pro. This is ridiculous. Bad for the Sport™.
E
DeltaSigChi4 1 year ago
sound like a great idea for people who never train with a gi, this way they can stay motivated .. but i cant understand what's the difference between no gi bjj and what you guys are training apart from the competition rules the dont allow all leg locks for lower belts .. and yeah the points are slightly different
bilbaisim 1 year ago
@bilbaisim I am pretty sure No-gi BJJ isnt really any different from what he is doing, but to get ranked in BJJ you pretty much have to train in a gi. Unless you go with Chris Brennan or Eddie Bravo.
cuzz63 1 year ago
@cuzz63
Criag kukuk only promotes no gi. I have my purple under him. :) First ever american black belt.
TJH6408 1 year ago
great idea
Steadno 1 year ago